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Hello has anyone used the money toolkit app to access your account?. On my iphone I have an official natwest app, which am sure is safe however a bit worried about this one cause it clearly states not affiliated with any bank.
Hi marvi0
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
You are absolutely right to question apps like ours, and I wish more people were more diligent in this resect.
The biggest barrier to using any third party financial app is trust. For a small start up like ours, theres a bit of a catch 22 thing. The best way for people to trust our app is to see others using it, which means having enough early trail blazers use it.
I hope you do read some of the pages on our site regarding security - we have gone to very great lengths to keep you in charge of your credentials.
But this is still only our word. Probably the best thing to help increase your confidence is to look on our get satisfaction pages - (we cant delete messages, so it is an open conversation). Also check the comments on the Android market, again we can't even respond as the developer (which can be frustrating).
I hope others do respond on here, though we only have 500+ active users, so I would be a bit surprised.
There will always be some nervousness committing to our app, ultimately you have to go with your instincts - most people who see our app don't go on to enter their details, which is a shame in my opinion (obviously), because those who do find our app really useful.
Any questions, just ask.
Cheers.
Dan.
I have installed it and it looks pretty good
I have my fingers crossed regarding the security
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
marvi0 said:
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
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Click to collapse
it does yeah
you get an overview and then when you click on the account it drills down into the transactions
you cant see direct debits etc
also i wish you could change the theme, the wooden effect is a bit yukky, lol
but it does the job fine
also you have to manually log out or the app will run in the background, and if someone picks up your phone they can see the bank funds etc
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
MTK-Dan said:
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
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Click to collapse
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the great feedback. I'd like the option to customise the background, or if this is not possible, a solid black background. The timeout option should be configurable so the user can set the timeout period!
I look forward to the updates
MTK-Dan said:
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
...
Any questions, just ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Dan,
Was just deliberating about using Money Toolkit and I had a couple questions. I've no knowledge in this area so please bare with me.
On the blog post here: hxxp://moneytoolkit.com/2010/09/secure-mobile-banking/
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
Which I agree doesn't sound ideal - but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?
Secondly - regarding the security - the same blog post says:
"Not only would someone have to get access to your phone they would have to go to the same lengths as they would if they wanted to ‘hack’ into a bank, but they would have to do it three times!"
I presume that each location storing data can't login to the bank account in part. Instead a single server instance would have to login - requiring all 3 parts of the information to do so as banks usually randomise the questions asked. That presumption may be wrong however - but if it's correct does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
"but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?""
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Click to collapse
We point out the normal relationship with Yodlee because Yodlee is an independant third party, they are the entity that you end up having the biggest contractual relationship with, in fact you sign over power of attourney to them when you use a web site that uses their aggregation (read the small print).
Regarding Money Toolkit making money, so far we don't! Of course, as you point out, we need to, so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
"Secondly - regarding the security...
...does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well your main assumptions is correct, but the reasoning not quite right. Firstly it is not just because of the random nature of the security questions that the three way split is valuable, but literally each part is utterly useless without the other parts, they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption). Our IP's and the bank's are hard coded so a traditional man in the midle attack is ruled out. They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
As you may know, the huge majority of security problems come from static data being discoverable (cd's and memory sticks left on trains for example). In our case the three seperate locations, including your phone make this kind of static data recovery, all but impossible.
However... you are right tht if someone managed to compromise the individual server that, at that moment (we have many), did that specific decryption: then if they were very smart, they might have the ability to detect your secure bank details. Though it would be almost imposible for that to happen and us not know about it. To alter our code and not have our systems detect the intrusion would be phenomenal.
MTK-Dan said:
so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, both options sound reasonable
MTK-Dan said:
they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
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Click to collapse
Neat, didn't realise.
MTK-Dan said:
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption).
They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
aph5 said:
Great, both options sound reasonable
Neat, didn't realise.
That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
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Is it possible to transfer money to whomever you want with this app?
We've created an app with in-app purchases, but wondering how does this work with other stores beyond the google market?
e.g. if the same code went to Amazon App Store, what happens when someone tries to do the in-app purchase?
My first thought is that it would mostly be a moot point -- I *think* Amazon wouldnt approve the app per their TOS. I havent read them too carefully but I assume they are similar to Apple and Google. Both of them have a clause in there related to not allowing apps in their market/stores that charge people outside of market/store. So first thing I would do before you code a lot is check the TOS.
If Amazon allows it, from a tech standpoint I would imagine things would generally function as intended as long as the package name is the same as the Android Market one.
However, a good way to test this would be to sideload your app on a test device, and try using the in-app purchase mechanism.
hth
It gets complicated quickly.
e.g. China has over 20 different Android markets, most devices do not come preloaded with the google Android Market plus credit cards are not as common as in the West. This adds another layer of complexity.
Technically speaking, that means a different implementation for each 'Android' store if the store has its own payment mechanisms and have a 'paywall' in the TOS?
yeah seems like it depends on the market and most likely that you will have to change the code.. apparently all the market people are working on one big like universal thing but until then... I wish you good luck. Seems like a serious PITA.
tyl3rdurden said:
yeah seems like it depends on the market and most likely that you will have to change the code.. apparently all the market people are working on one big like universal thing but until then... I wish you good luck. Seems like a serious PITA.
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What Market People/Universal thing? Would be curious to know.
@OP You need to pace yourself. Develop a strategy for handling payments separate from the app and hit the Markets one at a time.
I'd start with Amazon then SlideMe. Then see if you want to keep expanding to the other markets.
Also, Considering the lack of IP laws in China, I think that's the last stop on the train. It's hard to imagine raking in cash from a place that builds fake Apple Stores I could be wrong but that's the sense I get. Anyways if you stagger your approach you will be able to slowly develop a strategy for managing multiple stores.
hth
I'm only an intern right now so I really dont have that much information but apparently the worlds carriers (vague I know but I honestly just dont have the info) are working with WAC or on WAC to make a standard system or so. Sorry I can't be much more help.
Hi.
I am looking at getting a couple of Flyers for my small business, but I need something quite specific, so I am guessing I would need an app developed for me.
What I am looking for, is an app that I can use as a job sheet when on site.
It would need to have a template for the job sheet, with areas that I can enter text using the on screen keyboard.
It would also need to have tick boxes for several areas of the service work that has been completed.
Another thing that would be required, is the ability to automatically save to a specific folder on the SD card, using the job reference as a file name.
The final thing, and probably the hardest to implement, is an area for the customer to sign upon completion of the work.
Is this possible, and would anyone be interested in helping out with this?
I think that if the template could be inseted into the app using either an image file, pdf, or some other file type, the app could be valuable to many people considering using a device like the Flyer for work.
If somebody could get an app developed in this way, we would be able to pay something towards it.
Thanks.
Steve.
stabloid said:
Hi.
I am looking at getting a couple of Flyers for my small business, but I need something quite specific, so I am guessing I would need an app developed for me.
-snipped-
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Can I ask a few questions...
1. Why an app specifically for the Flyer? Would a web/cloud app do?
Given that you could save to a cloud database rather than an SD card, this would have certain advantages. If this doesn't work for you, I'd be interested to know why not.
Though question 2 might do it.
2.a I get why you may want a customer to sign a screen with a pen as per the Flyer platform. Could they use Evernote to do the signature?
2.b If Evernote would suffice for the signature, why not just use an Evernote form. for the whole app. (Google 'Evernote Form' for details)
3. Personally, I advise avoiding "signing" tablet devices (like delivery pads). The potential identity theft and data protection risks from recording and storing handwriting make me shudder.
A better form of authorisation (imo) would be to complete the form, email a PDF to your client, and have the client reply back to authorize. This is better because the client's email server and your email server will both have a legally enforceable record of the transaction.
I'm interested in your view of this.
Hope that helps
I will have a look at the suggestions you made.
The reason we're looking for this app, is to replace our job sheet books, which we take on site with us.
Being able to use the flyer instead, will save us a lot of money over a 2 year period, and would be more convenient than a paper book, which becomes dog-eared, and I am able to print off multiple copies if required, or email it direct to the customer.
We tend to deal with commercial establishments, such as care home groups, so we could streamline the whole process.
With regards to the whole identity theft thing, we don't take any details from people other than name & signature, and we never have any access to home addresses, credit cards, or bank details. Like I say, we bill head office, and they send a cheque, or use direct bank transfer.
I will try and post up a copy of one of our sheets, so you can see the layout we currently use.
Are you able to help develop an app, or are you just trying to help me find a different way to acheive my goals?
Cheers.
Steve.
There is a possibility that I could develop such an app. I would like to see a copy of the work sheet you currently use. I cannot commit myself to it right now though. If no one else picks it up in a few days, I'll try to carve out some time for it.
Thanks.
No major rush.
We don't have the Flyers yet.
I think I would prefer an app, as it is less messing around.
Cheers.
Steve.
stabloid said:
-snip-
Are you able to help develop an app, or are you just trying to help me find a different way to acheive my goals?
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My interest is in web-based mobile apps rather than os-based mobile apps. The difference being that web-based is browser only, whereas os-based runs on your device. What you've asked for here is, ostensibly, an os-based app - what I think you want is a business solution.
Right now, there is a lot of pressure, from the marketing side of the software industry, to build os-based mobile apps. Personally, I challenge the long-term commercial viability of this - because it will not fulfill customers (i.e. your) goals.
My concern is with the total cost of ownership. The bug fixes, version upgrades, and general long term viability are a 10:1 factor in favour of web-based rather than os-based. In this I'm referring only to custom/bespoke business applications not mass market targets.
(However, in your case, as you want to take your job books on-site, you may have to work without an internet connection and this means you have to go os-based.)
Forgive me if this all seems a bit esoteric.
Short answer, if you want a web-based mobile app, yes I can help. PM for details.
But... I suspect the costs to build/host could come as a bit of a shock. Your posts imply that you'd have a handful of users. To get major cost benefits you'd have to have 100's of users - and I think this would apply wherever (web or os) the app was targeted.
From what you've said, and guessing at your budget, getting someone to simply put your form into Evernote would be your likely best course of action. Sorry, I can't help with this.
(Evernote is the free Notes app that comes pre-installed with the Flyer. I've no affiliation, though I am a user.)
Trust that is all of some use.
Regards
You make some good points mate, and I can see the benefits of all solutions.
However, as you say, with taking the Flyer on site, we do end up in "dead-spots", and this would just cause huge problems.
I was considering getting the wifi version for us, and using tethering from our phones for data when required.
If it can all be done in Evernote, then that may be an option.
The reason I would like sd card usage, is so that I can review job sheets at any time.
I would like to run a full system for job sheets, invoicing, etc. but that would just be too costly.
I think VNC to connect to the office PC would be best option for invoicing.
There are currently only 2 engineers, and we would just like a nice clean simple solution to the job sheet problem, and the Flyer seems like it could be perfect.
It would replace diaries, job books, notepads (pen & paper), sat-nav, and looks nice and professional when you are on site.
Cheers.
Steve.
Hello friends
I made this article because I wanted to share my experience in buying a Xiaomi phone. In my case I bought 2 devices over the past two months. The first is a Xiaomi Mi5, which I ordered for my sister and the second one is the Mi5s, which I ordered for myself.
First, I’d like to talk about my choice of an online retailer. There are a couple of things to consider here.
1. Most importantly you want to be confident that the device will come with the original MIUI software. There are many online retailers that would sell you a device with a Global version of the software, only for you to find that it is actually some kind of a fake custom ROM. You want to avoid that, as flashing the original version of the software, although relatively easy, might be a lengthy and frustrating process for many. After all you'd like to begin using your device from day one, not spend time figuring how to fix it.
2. Secondly, the price. Naturally you'd like to find the best deal possible. You should be aware of the fact that there are many retailers that do fake promotions. They would for instance write down a higher price on the product and allegedly discount it to its original price. You don’t want to fall for such cheap tricks. The best thing you could do is either observe the price of the product every now and then, or compare over a couple of retailers.
3. Delivery. Ordering a device from China sometimes means waiting for more than a month for it to arrive. This depends to a big extend on the shipping agents that the retailer uses.
After doing about a month of research I decided to make my purchase from Fastcardtech.com Why? The driving factors were as follows: I was told that they ship devices only with the original software. The second is that they offered the best price at the time of the purchase. Thirdly, I considered the services they offered. As you can read on their website they have extensively explained their policy when it comes down to the payment, shipment and after sales services (warranty). They also offer secure payment through PayPal, transport insurance and customs insurance. Transport insurance means that they would ship another phone in case the first is lost during transportation. Customs insurance costs 7% of the total order price, but means that you would get compensated if your device ends up in the customs office.
Regarding, the shipping time, I can confirm that the Mi5 arrived for 2 weeks and the Mi5s for 3 weeks. The shipping agents in both cases ware SF post and Netherlands post. Upon booting them up for the first time I was pleased to find out both devices were running the original Global stable and Chinese stable software respectively.
When it comes down to the price at the time of the purchase the Mi5 costed just under $240 and the Mi5s $297. I bought both of them in December. I paid a small fee of around $7 for processing the transaction since I used PayPal. I’d recommend that you use Paypal too, as it is a secure method of purchasing. I also paid $3 for a transport insurance. Both are included in the above stated prices. The insurance is a valuable service offered by Fastcardtech.
Regarding the packaging, unfortunately I have thrown it away but the phones came carefully packaged in a thick layer of bubble wrap. You have the option of choosing different sorts of packaging on the checkout page One aspect about Fastcardtech I'd like to criticize is that they marked both items as commercial. The value they stated was 20usd. You should explicitly tell then to mark them as gifts, otherwise you might have to visit the customs
Now I would like to tell you what it is to use a Xiaomi device. First of all, upon booting it up for the first time I was charmed by the esthetics of the software. In my view it looks better than stock android. Furthermore, I highly value the added functionality. Out of the box the phones have applications like a compass, a file explorer, and a QR scanner. A great addition is the inclusion of WPS office. In fact, I like it so much that I wrote this article on my phone. Really a great office suite optimized to work fantastically on a phone. The security app is also a great convenience tool since it is the one place to go to optimize the work of your phone. It can analyze battery usage, clear unnecessary files from the system and in general makes sure that the phone runs smoothly. You might be wondering what it is to use the phone with a Chinese software and what the differences are with the Mi5, which runs on the Global version. Fortunately, I can make a direct comparison.
All in all, there aren't any big differences between both versions, at least when it comes down to general layout. My Mi5s came with the Google apps preinstalled, however if you do not wish for anyone to open the phone there is a great application by Xiaomi that you can download to install the essential Google services framework and the play store. You can find it on the following link: http://en.miui.com/thread-405166-1-1.html What might concern some of you is the presence of Chinese apps. Some of them are quite useful do be honest. An instance is the fantastic Reader application, which is way better than any other I have seen. The only problem is that it isn't translated in English. Some of the Chinese apps push notifications but it's very easy to mute them. I have just put them in folders and have forgotten about them. As you can expect the Google apps work well. There is this small bug that there isn’t an icon for the Google app. Consequently, I have to use the widget instead. The Mi5, which runs the global version on the other hand has no bloatware has and all the essential Google apps preinstalled. The main difference between both devices however lies in optimization. The global version is optimized to work with the Google apps and other applications like Facebook and messenger. This doesn't mean it launches them faster or runs them smoother. It is just far better at "managing them". By this I mean keeping them in the background more effectively and pushing notifications more consistently. If you want that on the Chinease version, you have to tweak the Autostart options and the hide options in the settings menu so that your favorites apps are managed better. Still, this might come at the expense of battery life. Otherwise as you would expect all native apps are perfectly optimized - notes, calendar etc. Just link them to your Google account and have no worries about missing your reminder.
When it comes down to general system performance both phones are blazing fast and keep apps in memory very well. No issues here at all. Once again I would like to mention the utilities that the security apps provided. I can be set to clear the cache of the phone regularly, remove trash after it reaches certain size, reboot the phone aromatically every now and then. As you might have guessed these are important functions that do not come out of the box in stock android but are essential for keeping the system running smoothly. Speaking of MIUI features, the 8,2 update has brought cool feature like automated tasks and smart assistant which will bring even more functionality and automation to then phone. I have the update available, however haven't taken advantage of it yet, because I wanted to finish my review as it is.
Having mentioned that there isn't much more to tell about these devices. There are 2 issues Mi5s users are regularly complaining about. Battery life and fingerprint. Perhaps the update will fix them. My observation on the topic is that battery life is generally very good. There is some kind of a bug however that's drains the battery but that happens rarely. Still it isn’t very plesant to see it, but a restart fixes everything. The fingerprint is a bit tricky too. Personally, I think it is one of the best available, but needs a lot of optimization. I have seen it rarely unlock the phone after a bear tap on the button, which was intended to just wake the screen. Still more often, you’d have to put your finger in the exact way you registered it so that it is recognized. Which is sometimes inconvenient
Such an informative post in this thread.
Really appreciate.
rhrokib said:
Such an informative post in this thread.
Really appreciate.
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Thank you! I am happy you found my post informative! If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer!
Ifo0 said:
Thank you! I am happy you found my post informative! If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I don't find any question now. If I just found one then I'd do.
Thanks for asking.
Hi Guys, just bought the Galaxy Note 8 from T-mobile,
I started the phone without logging in, and it was working fine, but as soon as I logged in, it does not allow me to log out.
It asked me to fully reset the phone, but I need blackberry for work app and park mobile app,, so if i reset, i will loose it.
Q1.) do you know how to can I logout without reset?
Q2.) if I reset, is it possible to sideloade those two apps?
Q3.) is there any alternate market?
when I try to go to
"cloud and account" --> "accounts" --> select "google" --> on account profile page menu --> "remove account" --> ack "remove account"
gives me message , "
Remove account
" Account is needed by some apps. You can only remove it by resetting device to factory defaults(which deletes all personal data). To do this go to setting > Backup and reset"
then "backup and reset" requires/forces me to create a "samsung account" and still I cant logout without restting.
I called T-mo. they were trying to help, but they couldnt' and told me only samsung can help, but "samsung" is not willing to help, not replying my email or private tweets,
Every person has their own level of tolerance for privacy, I am not looking for advises on why I want to log out, I need help on how to logout.
since I use it for work I can't root , blackberry app will not work.
Model: SM-N950U
Android V: 7.1.1
Samsung Experience V: 8.5
android security patch: oct 1, 2017
Kernal: 4.4.21-12461033
knox: 2.9
pls. help
It looks like this is called FRP (Factory Reset Protection) program, provided by Samsung..
objective is to prevent anyone from stilling your phone and reset it and use it.
but why not use samsung account ? why to use google account for this? they are too creepy if you logged in?
there are few instructions on removing sync , accounts.db and accounts.journal files, is it safe? is it going to screwup the phone ?
is there is no opt-in/opt-out for FRP?
The problem is that the apps that you installed is part of your account. So you need to add another Google account. Then any free app with no in-app purchases will also be part of that account. Any app that you have that is paid and/or in-app purchases attached to that Google account to it will need to be removed in order not to need to reset the device. The reason is that any app that you purchased or in-app purchased is attached to that Google account and can't be transferred to another account and can't be used without being logged into that Google account.
FYI - You can use Amazon app store for apps while signed in to any Google account or not even signed in to any Google account. You will still be signed into Amazon account. Amazon Store side load apps. So you need to give your device permission to side load apps.
Samsung Store is okay, but not forward thinking. Since you will need to stay with Samsung devices to keep using apps from Samsung account. That is the reason that I said Amazon App Store is much better alternative app store.
And you can still have more than one Google account signed in on your device as well.
But if you are not signed in any Google account your device will be limited usage. After all going for Android is going for its Eco-system. Just as when you go for iSO (Apple) is going for Apple Eco-system. That (Eco-system) is what we should be using as the first part of our decision in which device (Android or iOS (Apple) to get. Hardware should be the last part in our decision making when choosing which device to get. App neutrality doesn't really work 100% (for varies of reasons). So Eco-system should be THE FIRST PART of your decision.
If you don't want any company access to your information then go for a flip-phone and pen/paper.
Thanks!
I have my old galaxy S4 , where I can logout at will. so the advantages is you are not syncing your contacts, your location, search, youtube etc, and still use apps (including in-app purchase apps).
Currently if I have a fever, they tack that too, it is too intrusive..
I have never purchased an in-app item, never, and I have no intention too. but still my cc is at risk if one of my kids do it ( I know there are options berried in the settings to disable it) , but now apps also can access my contacts loc etc through google account.
if ppl can hack/steal govt data, this is nothing, like Equifax, they just apologized but no consequences.. CEO is not in the jail.. so why not to give options to their own users? why take/force decision for us? ( if I want to protect my phone and does not allow anyone to reset and start it --I need to stay logged in -- may be ok, although I think there are way to enforce that without giving up your privacy),
in anycase I am just looking to log out keeping those two apps.
Well......, too late for Samsung and Google for not getting that data. They all got that data very quickly when you first got into Android and Samsung devices. The same goes for Apple devices with Apple having your data (Apple calls that "Apple ID" information (data) that gets stored in the "Apple Cloud").
When it comes to your data (data that connects to you):
Your carrier like T-Mobile always have and logs your location with their tower's location and/or nods. As well as your web search, YouTubing, etc is logged not only by the search (Google, Microsoft, etc) and content provider (Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Sling, Pandora, Spotify, Apple, etc), but also your carrier too, like T-Mobile. If you use VPN service they logged your activity as well. Anytime you use Microsoft Office you are being logged by Microsoft too. Each app you use you are being logged by that developer, content provider, App Store that you got the apps from, ISP carrier (like T-mobile), and others. Logging out of your Google and Samsung accounts is not going to stop that.
So.... At that point, the only thing to do is enjoy the services or go for a flip-phone and pen/paper.
I use the finger print reader to protect app purchases and in-app purchases from my son. Works like a charm.
You can stop your device from syncing your contacts to Google and Samsung (This setting is in Contacts apps and in account settings). Then just backup your contacts with Samsung's Contacts app by just exporting a (VCF) file to your SDcard. Then you can import contacts from the (VCF) file. But the last Contacts that was synced to Google and/or Samsung will still be there with them.
At the end:
The Note series is designed for cloud based business and entertainment usage. That is despite that Samsung allows local usage. Still this Galaxy Note 8 is designed to be really a powerful cloud connected based business and entertainment usage device. Gone of the old PDA devices (local based usage devices). Once they put in cellular and WiFi radios within the PDA these devices have change forever.This includes tablets.
Sorry!
Thank you for you reply!
I wished there was a comprehensive law. Europe at least has an active body to do it..
Tmo/carriers --I think (at least now), might not be after your very personal data, and we already gave our ssn when we signed up, we have seen multiple times that they have easily lost that data too.. (like Target)
but Google or FB on the other end are on different level, they intervene with your life. I wonder how much they must be (paying ) lobbying senators and house reps, to keep away from bringing bills on privacy..
the last privacy law was 1974 and last revision was on 2004, that too only dictating how govt should store/use data , nothing about corporates.
I would go to flipphones, the only reason I am on the new phone is the there are new bands on Tmo that are not supported on my S4, and have no/very weak signal, so I dont think flip-phone option is there at all
but hopefully, there will be some kind of control over it. but before that I wished these CEOs had some moral, or the big schools should have taught them 1 class on morality
sendi_t34 said:
Hi Guys, just bought the Galaxy Note 8 from T-mobile,
I started the phone without logging in, and it was working fine, but as soon as I logged in, it does not allow me to log out.
It asked me to fully reset the phone, but I need blackberry for work app and park mobile app,, so if i reset, i will loose it.
Q1.) do you know how to can I logout without reset?
Q2.) if I reset, is it possible to sideloade those two apps?
Q3.) is there any alternate market?
when I try to go to
"cloud and account" --> "accounts" --> select "google" --> on account profile page menu --> "remove account" --> ack "remove account"
gives me message , "
Remove account
" Account is needed by some apps. You can only remove it by resetting device to factory defaults(which deletes all personal data). To do this go to setting > Backup and reset"
then "backup and reset" requires/forces me to create a "samsung account" and still I cant logout without restting.
I called T-mo. they were trying to help, but they couldnt' and told me only samsung can help, but "samsung" is not willing to help, not replying my email or private tweets,
Every person has their own level of tolerance for privacy, I am not looking for advises on why I want to log out, I need help on how to logout.
since I use it for work I can't root , blackberry app will not work.
Model: SM-N950U
Android V: 7.1.1
Samsung Experience V: 8.5
android security patch: oct 1, 2017
Kernal: 4.4.21-12461033
knox: 2.9
pls. help
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Click to collapse
Notices this too on the latest T-Mo firmware. Nope. No way to logout without factory reset. Exactly what that screen says. You will have to factory reset from the settings, like it or not.
You can always go to apk mirror to look for the apps and install them. But if any require you to log into a Google account, then you'll be back where you started. Sorry.
I understand why its frustrating, but it is what it is I don't mind it, cause I don't care what Google knows about me., and find their services extremely convenient. My mom won't even get a smart thermostat because she's scared the government is watching her utility usage. Me? I tell my Google Home to change the temp on my Nest Thermostat, cause I prefer convenience.
Thanks for your opinion and suggestions!
As I said, everyone has their level of tolerance. I wouldnt mind giving the information if I can control it, but this is actually intruding. like creep. ( like not letting us log out, making decision for you as if you are dumb).
I also would like convince sure, but would you like
1.) If your kids are graded over google class room, and the full academic-history is recorded there, in future your potential employer will be able to request it without even your knowledge, same thing as "agree all"
For your little convince "now" your are giving up your (or your kids )future by letting them think that this is acceptable or this is "new reality" and ppl will forgive or ppl are adaptive.. I sincerely wish you give one thought to it.
Tomorrow, they will tell you this food it good for you and you should't eat this or that.. you will say "oh I prefer convince that it is telling me what to do for my health" -- next thing you know it does not even "allow you to eat anything else." -- like it is not allowing me to log out -- b/c I dont loose the phone --making decision for me--
you can wait for that day or try to consider a "little less" convenience ..
I am not that old, at least that's what I think , but I assume old ppl. have some prejudice with govt and I dont know why... but I dont have that, govt can track it , but they dont have any corporate interest at least.
I can give more examples when you search up a deceases or your kids are in trouble everything is recorded. (no 2nd chance for them). I am not convince that you are willing to weigh those things with minor inconvenience of setting temp on your nest thermostat from your computer or logging in again and again with your fingerprints when required ..
Thank you for putting your perspective. I hope that we as a consumer see beyond apparent
Like I said before :
Both Apple and Google have you log into your account (Apple ID if it is iOS or Google account if it is Android) for their mobile devices (both tablets and "smartphones").
If you don't want this then:
Use a flip phone and pen/paper.
The things are that you have a choice and that is your choice.
On The Side Talk - I worked for some of these corporations. I find that they have less interest in your and your family's personal lives. They want customers. And the future is going towards device assistant future. That is the future our children and their children will live in the future. As business you want that piece of that pie. And for customers it is a way to have always on assistance.
What I worry about is the govs into your personal lives. It doesn't take much work for the gov agencies and law agencies in stitching in your activities and activities of people you connect with into a crime or would be crime without you doing the crime and without you planning a crime. That is what both individuals and business don't want. That is much more danger than any corporation. Meaning that I don't have any fear of any corporation becoming a gov. But I do believe we need to be aware of what the govs can and will do with your data.
When it comes to corporations my largest fear is what they will do to our accessing the whole Internet since net neutrality is reversed.
Thanks!
Sure. It sounds like 90's Microsoft saying if you dont want to use IE "your are not forced to" just dont use it , but there is no other option, but now it is cool b/c google/aaple is saysing it? same as we dont have any option for cable only optimum or comcast RCN or TWC in perticular area only one is available..
but I think we dont want to pick up another topic on this this very important subject of privacy. Net-Neutrality is very important we can open another thread.
" I worked for some of these corporations. I find that they have less interest in your and your family's personal lives" -- I bag to differ strongly. only thing they care about is "bottom line" they dont/can't (since that there business model) give a dime about your privacy..
Since you have worked for these big corporations, let me pick your brains, what do you think about Wells fargo case where false/dummy , without permissions, accounts were created.. the banks objective is to make money available/make markets/provide basic banking services -- "do you think htey have less interest in your information?"
Where as google /insta/ FB's bread and butter is Your informaiton.. do you still think they have less interest? the whole economics is based on your infromation.. while you were there what was the pricing model? on top ad. when you search for "fever", I assume there will be a real time "bidding" between aspirin/advil/ tylenol to show up as the 1st link, + bidding on your location by riteaid, walgreen, cvs, DR etc. the more the information(like age,women,kids, other conditions, are you searching it again in howmany months? is it cyclic issue can I market every month on these dates? there you go for data science .. etc) the more the price of the link since you can market other drugs too.. or children medecine on the local store.
thisi s a very basic thought, although I have not worked for those big companies.. so i dont have as much experience as you do.. let me know how they do it.. if not using our information.
Everyone needs to be aware of their data that is accessible to the public and semi-public. This is and was very true much longer than we average people had computers within our daily lives. Remember the cold war fears of whom was a communist, fascist, socialist, etc? You can look into the days of witch hunts. And go much further in time. In the data accessible world it is even more important to be aware of your data in the public and semi-public.
But that should not stop you from living the life of a modern person in the modern world.
With Google, you have the choice what data is public, semi-public and semi-private and totally private. So you have that power of what data is accessible and to whom that data is accessible to.
But I can understand if someone is in fear of what data the governments (including law enforcement agencies) can get to and have access. Corporations don't control that. In fact tech corporations rather the governments (including law enforcement agencies) not have any ability to access the data. Basically it is bad business for tech corporations in the governments (including law enforcement agencies) to have access of people's data, because of the lack of trust to the tech corporations due to governments (including law enforcement agencies) hands in people's data. Again, tech corporations don't have that kind of power to stop governments (including law enforcement agencies) from accessing the data beyond certain legal points. That is why I said "Both individuals and corporations don't want this".
We just got to be aware of what data we have out there, how the data is accessible, and to whom has access to that data. Then make intelligent decisions of what data we allow out there and to whom will have access to each data. Then practice this throughout our modern lives in this modern world.
What I do agree is that there should be "Personal Data Awareness within the Internet" classes for each child. This class would teach children the facts in the dangers of their own personal data on the Internet and how to protect themselves & their own data. I feel that this is important.
To answer your bank question: When it comes to banks. They are much different from the tech industry in so many ways. And yes, the financial industry did caused the great recession ten years ago.
I kind of agree with some of your points.
But one basic difference that you are confusing or merging corporate with governments. I am not referring government, I am okay with govt having data or even tracking since that is for security (at least I want to believe that ) , otherwize based on above logic somebody will say if you don't like it leave usa -- like if you dont want google to track you dont use google/apple/fb right?
The basic problem is, why google/apple/FB needs to carry so much personalized data? and not give us control? a basic thing like log out, even if I "log out," they can still feed me localized ads, since they have my ip and device id.. only thing is they can not say this is "sendi" who did the search ( even though they can indirectly figure it).. they can not "profile" a user. remember a few months ago when Law and Enforcement ppl. were stopping and you had to show your legal docs? and there was a huge public outcry..
But now google/apple/FB etc tracks you more than that is it still cool?
Once you (or someone else --think revenge) "post" pic/contact/vid etc on google/FB/Apple/Insta , the privacy policy you signed "agree all" makes that google/FB "property", and you have to beg them to take it out.. in the name of modern society, are you willing to bite that ?
I am not against new technology, I like and trade in crypto, but you need to have technology help you live better life, not creep you ... or make it immutable, force, all negativity they are bringing.. It is like having so much power and no responsibility ..
This is case of Moral and Ethics, Google/Apple will only act if it "come out" .. like memo from google a few months ago and publicized.. like Uber CEO case (how they operate) do you think they care about anything unless it come into media?.
https://www.boston.com/news/untagged/2015/03/24/how-to-try-to-get-your-nude-photos-removed-from-the-internet
Boston.com talked to Mitchell J. Matorin, a Wellesley-based lawyer, and Lissa McKinney, an Acton-based attorney, about some of the ways to try to get these photos removed. Matorin said that, under the act, victims trying to get photos removed can turn to federal criminal law, intellectual property law, and, in some cases, state law.
Alleging copyright infringement is a victim’s best bet, he said.
If a victim’s photo is posted without her consent, she still owns the copyright as long as she took it herself. If her partner took the photo—with or without consent—he owns the copyright unless he agrees to transfer it.
A victim who owns a copyright must file the image with the U.S. copyright office, which will then submit a copyright number to indicate that it has been registered in a federal database. Once the image has been granted a copyright number, she can sue for infringement.
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You cant take out your picture , (even if it is yours) , you need a lawyer + proof (meaning take that pic again , show it to copywrite ppl, and prove it) and then websites take it out.. where are apples 267 billions in cash sponsoring that bill? for us to trust them they they wont misuse anyone's privacy?
Again: We are responsible for our own data. What others do with the data that they have with them (including the data that they downloaded from public or what you gave them or someone you gave the data gave them) is out of the tech industry's hands (outside of copyright data that the tech company may need proof of before taking action). Believe you me you don't want the tech industry to start being the police on the Internet.
Tech industry will always be on the side of "freedom of speech". Yes they have been and are being fired back from this "freedom of speech" from the public and the governments with this in several different directions. This is a fine line. And the tech companies are not the Internet police. And you don't want the governments to be the Internet police either.
The "right to be forgotten" breaks the Internet in the same way that censorship and no net neutrality does. The "right to be forgotten" makes the information on the Internet as much of a lie as "fake news" does by hiding the facts (data) through limiting and even stopping the data from getting to the public. That is how it breaks the Internet.
I am not saying that people in the tech industry doesn't do things wrong or don't do what is becoming the modern times socially unacceptable. After all we all are humans and the exceptions of the modern world is in a huge movement of change. As we and our technologies moves us closer in many ways our exceptions of what is acceptable changes. I remember that it was normal to of found your love in or around your workplace (after all you live most of your time at work). Now days looking at someone in wrong way (without realizing you doing it) or even an unconscious blink of your eyes towards someone is unacceptable. Yet at the same time: blasting your music and videos out loud in public places & around other people (that don't want to hear/watch the stuff), legal drug use in CA (marijuana), and street gang clothing style fully with the street gang attitude to boot is fully acceptable in our world at this current moment in time.
What a twisted world we are currently living in right now where: We are not allow to even unconsciously blink our eyes towards the wrong person. Yet we can't speak against certain things what we may find offensive and even dangerous without being considered as discriminative, dangerous, and all around bad in the eyes of the modern public. While other things get way too much attention from the public. Like I find the street gang life style with the street gang attitude to boot, drug infested, blast your stuff in public with no regard to anyone else type culture to be more dangerous and offensive on a larger scale then a few bad behaviors & few bad apples within the business world. Business world always needs cleaning up in their behavior, that I agree and support. But there are much worse things that need more attention. And yet, I would be consider as a bad person with all the dressings that I mentioned above to think this way in this modern world. That is truly messed up.
The tech industry is not responsible for the data leaks either. Look onto the bad "black hat" (lack of a better terminology) hackers and governments for that. The tech industry is doing their best to stop the leaks (hacks). And the tech industry is not responsible for how the non-tech industries responds. It is up to each company to weigh the risk of when to tell the public of such leaks. If they tell the public too soon they can put the data even more risk before they can fix the problem. And the knowledge of the leak can bring scare to the public that can create more damage in many ways than it can help. Things like these are the reasons for not telling the public or delays of such knowledge like leaks. And not all these companies are tech companies. So they may not understand what happened nor the risk involved.
The tech industry is not the monster. They, like all of us, are just part of the times of this world that we live in that is going through its own changes.
Again: Know the risk, what data you have and want out there, whom should and may have access to it and how the data can be accessed. Then make your decisions from there.
Again: Protecting our privacy is very important to corporations. Since consumer's trust means business to corporations. Losing consumer's trust means lower profits.
Fears, half baked knowledge, half-truths, true data in wrong content/s, and conspiracy theories doesn't help.