I've broke the screen of my S2. It doesn't show anything!
I will get it fixed by official Samsung service.
The problem is that I am rooted and they will see it and I am going to lose my remaining 1-year warranty.
I've found some guidelines to unroot it from the PC using ODIN (no need for the screen of S2 to work):
However, I must also reset the flash counter. Is that possible without seeing the mobile's screen??
If you physically 'broke the screen' (cracked/etc accidentally or whatever), you can forget about getting it fixed under warranty (unless you have some kind of 3rd party warranty covering such things). If the screen malfunctioned, that's a different story.
I don't think A/S center will fix 'physically' broken screen for nothing because it is your fault...
I don't know much about SGS2 because I don't have it. But just try to flash ODIN Firmware.
Sent from my IM-A840S using xda app-developers app
D-Phi said:
I don't think A/S center will fix 'physically' broken screen for nothing because it is your fault...
I don't know much about SGS2 because I don't have it. But just try to flash ODIN Firmware.
Sent from my IM-A840S using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Of course I will have to pay the screen replacement.
What I don't want is to lose the remaining warranty...
Ahhhh OK. Gotcha. Hmmm....
Why not replace the screen yourself ? Will be cheaper than paying an authorised repairer to do it, and if anything goes wrong with the phone after, your warranty will still be good. Or even go to a local mobile repair shop who isn't an authorised repairer & have it replaced.
This is going to be easier than trying to do something that's bordering on impossible. I know with some Android phones you can flash stock roms from ADB, but with the SGS2 I'm not so sure. If it were me (If I cared about warranty; I don't, but, anyway...), I'd get the screen replaced (which you've said yourself you're going to have to pay for anyways) via either of the above methods & bypass authorised repairers. If you don't have that choice (I.E only local mobile repair shop is a Samsung authorised repairer), buying one from eBay/replacing it yourself is your best bet.
MistahBungle said:
Ahhhh OK. Gotcha. Hmmm....
Why not replace the screen yourself ? Will be cheaper than paying an authorised repairer to do it, and if anything goes wrong with the phone after, your warranty will still be good. Or even go to a local mobile repair shop who isn't an authorised repairer & have it replaced.
This is going to be easier than trying to do something that's bordering on impossible. I know with some Android phones you can flash stock roms from ADB, but with the SGS2 I'm not so sure. If it were me (If I cared about warranty; I don't, but, anyway...), I'd get the screen replaced (which you've said yourself you're going to have to pay for anyways) via either of the above methods & bypass authorised repairers. If you don't have that choice (I.E only local mobile repair shop is a Samsung authorised repairer), buying one from eBay/replacing it yourself is your best bet.
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Click to collapse
OK, thanks for your advice!
Related
I have a question.
I just broke my phone following this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1702815
I followed every step in this thread, but when I want to power up my phone it doesn't do anything
No vibration, nothing. Volume+ and power button also don't work..
I think I broke my phone...
Is there any way to make my phone work again?
PLEASE HELP!!!
I think you're phone is permanently bricked . You might be able to recover it using ATF (Advance Turbo Flasher) but that requires buying special hardware and soldering it to your mainboard, and I'm pretty sure it would be expensive. If you're still under warranty, you might be able to have it replaced by Nokia.
phantomsniper773 said:
I think you're phone is permanently bricked . You might be able to recover it using ATF (Advance Turbo Flasher) but that requires buying special hardware and soldering it to your mainboard, and I'm pretty sure it would be expensive. If you're still under warranty, you might be able to have it replaced by Nokia.
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Click to collapse
That's not good :s
I bought the phone from someone else so i think no warranty.
I have to buy a new one i'm afraid.
Thanks for your response!
bozzg86 said:
That's not good :s
I bought the phone from someone else so i think no warranty.
I have to buy a new one i'm afraid.
Thanks for your response!
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Click to collapse
Maybe it's not to late, bozzy.
You can see if you have warranty just by checking your imei number, if yes just bring it to an ncs point.
Just read this and check your emei on the bottom of the page.
http://www.nokia.com/nl-nl/support/online-repair/
Goodluck
Yeah, I think the warranty might still work. I myself bought my phone from eBay, and I sent it in for repair because the battery cover was getting loose. It hasn't arrived at Nokia's Repair Center yet, but they checked the warranty from the IMEI number and sent me a prepaid shipping label so it looks like they'll accept it.
Mine still had the Qualcomm bootloader when I sent it so I'm not sure if they'll actually repair it, but since yours doesn't boot at all, I'm guessing they'll just flash back to stock without even checking to see if you rooted it or anything. They are supposed to be getting mine on Monday, so I guess I'll post back if they refuse to repair it because the bootloader is modified or because I'm not the original owner.
Hi
Can someone help with this if possible,My galaxy s2 froze when updating through Samsung kies so i decided to use odin to try fix the issue of the yellow triangle on stat up as i was going through the steps not sure what i have done but my phone turned of and now will not come on at all its completely dead so i ordered usb jig to see if that would work but to no avail as the phone wont come on ,any help with would be appreciated .
Regards
Bobster69
Either JTAG repair or MB replacement by Samsung/authorised repairer or get a board from a broken/donor phone & either replace it yourself or have a local mobile shop swap it out for you.
Jtag
MistahBungle said:
Either JTAG repair or MB replacement by Samsung/authorised repairer or get a board from a broken/donor phone & either replace it yourself or have a local mobile shop swap it out for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there any place in Scotland n Edinburgh were i live this can be done?
No idea. I don't live anywhere near Scotland. Do a Google search for JTAG repairers (or look here ). If replacing the motherboard ends up being the only option (if the phone can't be JTAG'd), either pay Samsung/authorised repairer to replace it or get one from a broken phone (Google search/eBay/etc) & DIY/pay a local mobile shop to swap the boards out, as per my PP.
Or maybe TheUnderling will read this & he might know (of JTAG repairers in Scotland). He's in Aberdeen from memory (I wouldn't PM him if I were you tho; he'd probably/quite rightly delete your PM).
I had upgraded my old contract with 3 mobile (carrier) and got myself the Samsung Galaxy S3. It had just been about 4 months since I got the phone and I was happy with it. It was working perfectly with no issues or problems. On the 2nd of Feb 2013, I woke up in the morning to find that my phone had only 1% battery remaining. After making myself a cup of coffee, I got back to charge the phone but I found it had turned off due to low battery. I immediately plugged it in and after a few minutes I tried switching it on, but for some reason the phone wouldn't turn on. It would just go till the black and white screen showing the Samsung logo and then that was it. Thinking that it might have been drained of battery I decided to charge it till it showed 100% battery. After it got fully charged, I tried turning it on again, but the result was still the same. It wouldn’t move from the black and white screen showing the logo. At this point I realized that the problem was not something i could handle; I took it to the 3 mobile stores where I had originally purchased the phone from. The lady, whom I spoke to at the shop, did inspect my phone and tried to do a factory reset, but all that was of no use. After about 20 minutes I was told that I could drop it in for repairs by either posting it myself after getting into touch with the customer care team or I was told I could bring it back to the shop on Tuesday when they usually do pickups for repairs and send it from the shop. I chose to take it to the shop on Tuesday and have them send my phone to the repair centre. I was given the battery and back case for me to keep it with me and filled up a form for repairs and got told that they would get back to me in a weeks’ time.
Now here is where the problem starts...
Roughly after a week I got a letter sent to me by 3 mobile customer services. The content in the letter was...
"We are sorry to say there is evidence of unauthorized repair activity on your Samsung Galaxy S3. This suggests that the phone has been handled by a non- approved third party prior to receipt by our repair centre. As this invalidates your manufacturer's warranty we are unfortunately unable to progress with the repair."
I immediately phoned up customer services to let them know that I was not happy with these falls claims of a 3rd party trying to fix my phone. And they insisted that they cannot go against the decision of their engineer. And that they would not send such a letter through without thoroughly examining the phone. They person whom I was speaking to said that he had forwarded this to the complaints department and they will contact me within 48hrs.
The first thing I did when my phoned died was take it to the 3 store, knowing that I had 2 years warranty. I don’t see why I would want to pay a third person to fix my phone, when I can get it fixed for free by the 3 mobile.
The next day I got a call from this guy from 3 mobile who said he was a supervisor in the complaint handling department. I got told that their repair team believe that when they got my phone it was not in economic condition. And therefore they would not be able to carry on with repair. I kept on insisting that my phone has never been looked at by any unauthorized person. And I asked them to show me what proof they have to say that it was tampered with, to which they replied it could be anything, but they will not go against the decision of the engineer. I was told that they would return my phone to me so that I could give it somewhere else for repair and that they wouldn't replace my phone under any circumstances. I have told them to send me their statements in writing. As soon as I finished the call I went straight to the 3 store that I got my phone from. I spoke to the same guy, whom I had spoken to while handing my phone in for repairs and he said to me there is not much they can do at the store and the best thing I could do was to phone up customer care again and ask what proof they had to suggest that my phone got handled by a 3rd party.
I will be heading to citizens advice, hoping that they could help me in this matter. The fault that I had with my S3 seemed to be a common one , as I had read quite a few blogs and articles on it in the internet.
I just found out about this forum through a friend today. I hope there is someone here who can help me or give me suggestions on what to do.
Thnx
Search for "sds" you will find loads of info, precedence already set by Samsung, and nail those people with the CAB, they are your best bet, oh and ask the phone shop for an address to which you can send documentation as you wish to start legal proceedings...in short....You are in the right, you have faulty goods, they haven't provided you with any evidence to back up their claim you tampered with it....and point out that without dated photographic evidence they haven't got a leg to stand on.......basically harass the crap out of them and don't be afraid to go into that store and make enough noise to give them bad publicity, also tell them you are contacting local press!
They sold you the phone, they should replace it under the consumer act.simple.
Warranty from the store is not 2 years its standard twelve months .
Your claim is against the store not Samsung .
Separate limited Samsung warranty is two years .
The standard reply to this topic is that you need an engineers report yourself to disprove the sellers report .
If it is SDS then phone is repaired usually first case i have heard of rejected for the reasons you post .
TS may give you more advice but the basic is your word against the engineers diagnostics .
Do not as many have done with phone contracts and repairs stop paying the contract as al that happens is you still owe and get your credit record messed up .The phone is not part of the contract but an inducement to take out the contract .
jje
When i Phoned up 3 tech support to have my phone sent back to me.. the person whom I spoke to was able to give me a bit more details about what had actually happened. They claim that my phones software had been rooted and as a result their engineers( who were also trained by Samsung) could not access my phone . They said that it might have happened due to something malicious being installed on the phone or it might have happened when the phone had been plugged into the computer and a third party app being installed.
I don't really know much about phone software and routing. As far as I am aware, I haven't installed any malicious content on my phone , neither have I installed any 3rd party apps. All the additional apps on my phone had been downloaded from play store.
The guy from 3 tech support, told me that if 3 were to fix the issue, it would go over £200 and that my options were to either a) claim insurance ( which i don't have). b) have it send to Samsung, to check if they might have an different approach to the issue.
I ended up sending my phone to Samsung twice and here is what happened......
Over the past 1 month, I send my phone for repairs to Samsung twice and both times it got send back to me without being repaired.
The first time I send it for repairs; I got it back in 2 days. I was surprised that Samsung didn't fix my phone. They send be a letter along with my phone saying “That my phone had been tested with an RF test, which resulted in a pass, indicating that RF section of phone was not at fault. However, testing my handset with a live operator network failed as the network did not allow my handset to connect. They tried telling me that my phone had been blacklisted and network blocked by the provider. I was told to contact my provider for further details regarding this matter. It took 3 mobile a week to confirm that my phone had not been blocked or blacklisted at all.
I then contacted Samsung for a second time and told them that my network provider had confirmed with me that my phone was not blacklisted. My phone got send back to Samsung for the second time. I phoned them up on receiving a conformation text about my phone being delivered to Samsung. I did specifically tell them to keep me posted and to let me know before they send it back to me. Two days later I got a text saying that my phone will be delivered to me by 5pm that day. I quickly phoned up Samsung, hoping to hear that they had finally managed to fix my phone. But instead, I got transferred to the repair centre, who informed me that the phone had been sent back to me, but unfortunately could not be repaired as there was interference in the software. They told me that my phone was beyond economical repair and that I had to contact Samsung directly in order to get it fixed. I phoned up Samsung and made the aware that I was clearly unhappy with what was going on. Apparently the repair center that the phone was sent to does not deal with software related problems. So now they will send it to a different repair center (one that deals with software issues). But they also told me that it might have happened if the phone had been rooted and I clearly told them that I had done nothing to the phone. They went on to say that if the phone had been rooted, then there was nothing they could do, but if it hasn't been rooted, then it will be replaced. Personally I don't know how to root my phone. I have openly said that I'm not the best when it comes to such things as I have very little knowledge regarding such things. So even if Samsung were to tell me that they have found my phone to be rooted( which it clearly hasn't), I wouldn't know what to say to that.
I am waiting on Samsung to collect my phone from me now for the third time... Tbh I have lost all hope...
Would be nice to hear about what you guys think I should do nw. Thnx
Root is not a virus or trojan if its rooted its been flashed .
Root does not prevent access but it does void warranty .
interference in the software. >> really does not make sense as a service centre with software problems on a unit would just factory reset the phone ..
This saga smell like a second user phone that has been rooted and possible firmware changed . You have ended up with it from the store .
Presume you have no details of the firmware that was on the phone at point of sale .Nor your IMEI .
jje
I feel a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't really know that much about phone's software and firmware or any other stuff related to them.. But I think I may have the IMEI no. wid me. Are you suggesting that I may have been sold a second hand phone ?
If only i knew what exactly i needed to tell Samsung :crying:
Akhil John said:
I feel a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't really know that much about phone's software and firmware or any other stuff related to them.. But I think I may have the IMEI no. wid me. Are you suggesting that I may have been sold a second hand phone ?
If only i knew what exactly i needed to tell Samsung :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just suggesting its as a bit odd if its stock untouched and you have not rooted or modified the phone .
repair centre say rooted firmware modified IMEI blacklisted
If rooted is true then someone has carried out that task .
jje
Service provider 3 did confirm that the phone was not blacklisted . Would like to get any sort of advice on what steps I should be taking now with regards to contacting Samsung on further assessment and repairs.
JJEgan said:
Root is not a virus or trojan if its rooted its been flashed .
Root does not prevent access but it does void warranty .
interference in the software. >> really does not make sense as a service centre with software problems on a unit would just factory reset the phone ..
This saga smell like a second user phone that has been rooted and possible firmware changed . You have ended up with it from the store .
Presume you have no details of the firmware that was on the phone at point of sale .Nor your IMEI .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you not seen AdamOutler's explanation on why rooting doesn't void the warranty?
b-eock said:
Have you not seen AdamOutler's explanation on why rooting doesn't void the warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but i have also seen the Samsung letter that clearly states it voids warranty .
Plus i have yet to see one successful user report that Samsung accepted that root does not void warranty .
But the op has the choice of telling Samsung they are in the wrong even though presumably they have rejected as root is against their rules for the limited warranty .
jje
---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------
OP i think your best to find out why warranty is not valid.
If its root or custom rom the reason then use b-eok post / adam outler to argue that root does not invalidate your warranty.
If the phone is rooted and you have not rooted then contact the vendor as to why was it a returned phone or similar .
jje
The way things stand right now, Samsung have arranged my phone to be collected on Tuesday ( 23/03.2013) . But i am still confused as to what I should tell them in terms of what I think is the fault. I'd imagine that they would know the causes of SDS by default. I guess this is what happens to people who clearly don't know much about phones. :crying: The only update that I had done on my S3 was ICS to Jellybean.
Akhil John said:
The way things stand right now, Samsung have arranged my phone to be collected on Tuesday ( 23/03.2013) . But i am still confused as to what I should tell them in terms of what I think is the fault. I'd imagine that they would know the causes of SDS by default. I guess this is what happens to people who clearly don't know much about phones. :crying: The only update that I had done on my S3 was ICS to Jellybean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you update it?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
notification came up saying jb update avaiable, so i went nd updated it.
My phones gonna be send to Samsung today. Can anyone suggest any points that i could mention to them in order for them to understand that, it was the phone being faulty and not me doing anything to it. Is true that SDS makes the phone appear to be rooted ( with Custom status being ) ?
If that is so, then how do I explain it to them?
Just say its dead and you suspect eMMC / motherboard failure
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
rootSU said:
Just say its dead and you suspect eMMC / motherboard failure
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers pal, will do.
There is a huge difference between warranty and limited warranty.
Basically the warrany is what your seller (not Samsung!!!) is required by law to provide and usually includes a phase (6months or so) where the seller has to prove you damaged the phone. claiming "rooting" as damaging the phone is btw not sufficient.
Limited warranty is optional and can have any restrictions the provider wants, including requiring you to sing karaoke on handstand every day and post it on Youtube. Limited warrany can be provided by anyone, but usually the manufacturer.
In short: ONLY deal with your carrier. Samsung has nothing to do with you and can charge / refuse repair unless they decide otherwise to provide customer service.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
d4fseeker said:
There is a huge difference between warranty and limited warranty.
Basically the warrany is what your seller (not Samsung!!!) is required by law to provide and usually includes a phase (6months or so) where the seller has to prove you damaged the phone. claiming "rooting" as damaging the phone is btw not sufficient.
Limited warranty is optional and can have any restrictions the provider wants, including requiring you to sing karaoke on handstand every day and post it on Youtube. Limited warrany can be provided by anyone, but usually the manufacturer.
In short: ONLY deal with your carrier. Samsung has nothing to do with you and can charge / refuse repair unless they decide otherwise to provide customer service.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
In the EU, if you can prove the fault is a manufacturing defect rather than user damage, Samsung would be breaking the law to refuse the warranty within a 2 year period of the device being purchased. It's the proof that is the hard part.
I would too always suggest going to the carrier first, but not for this reason. Simply so they have a log of your faults. However OP went to the carrier first and refused him under nonsense grounds. I do think that Offcom could make 3 UK evidence the nonesense they speak...
Got in touch with Samsung again. They said that the reason that the engineers haven't been able to fix it is because there is a software interference caused by installation of an unauthorized software. If this is the case, they said that the wouldn't touch the phone. But send it back just the way it was. I asked them to provide proof and I was told that the engineers would arrange photo's to be sent along with a letter, when they return the phone (clearly didnt make any sense to me). I got told that I could cross check with an individual repair center, to confirm about this so called unauthorized software.
Any suggestions on what I should do now? At this point of time i have clearly lost all hope that my phone will ever get fixed :crying:
Akhil John said:
Got in touch with Samsung again. They said that the reason that the engineers haven't been able to fix it is because there is a software interference caused by installation of an unauthorized software. If this is the case, they said that the wouldn't touch the phone. But send it back just the way it was. I asked them to provide proof and I was told that the engineers would arrange photo's to be sent along with a letter, when they return the phone (clearly didnt make any sense to me). I got told that I could cross check with an individual repair center, to confirm about this so called unauthorized software.
Any suggestions on what I should do now? At this point of time i have clearly lost all hope that my phone will ever get fixed :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the standard reason they give when voiding warranty due to root custom roms etc .
Samsung's warranty is not the same as a vendors liability / warranty and says Limited on the packet .
Go back a few posts and you are told that root does not void warranty so i would take that path of pointing out to Samsung that root is not a valid reason to refuse warranty ( though i think as its an extra limited warranty it is ).
Or likewise from the vendor make a claim via the courts if they refuse it under EU law .
Initially it is the vendors responsibility .
Take advice from what was Trading Standards via your local council as well .
jje
hello
i have a g2 bricked
i entred in download mode, then flashed a cwm via odin
now the phone is black and cant be turned on, no download mode, no recovery, no charging !
help please
I think that your only choice is jig
ARDV said:
hello
i have a g2 bricked
i entred in download mode, then flashed a cwm via odin
now the phone is black and cant be turned on, no download mode, no recovery, no charging !
help please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try this mate
http://www.google.co.in/url?q=http:...4QFjAF&usg=AFQjCNE5Kz_4i0iDiIp48Gb3k8x0x42neQ
Hope it helps you
Try a jig as advised but it more than likely won't work, nor will a JTAG in all likelihood. And the 'fix' you were referred to in the post above mine definitely won't work. Motherboard replacement.
it seems the problem is very bad
so i think i have 3 choices now:
1- JIG method (which i didn't know before this topic).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1402286
http://galaxys2root.com/galaxy-s2-hacks/how-to-make-a-usb-jig-for-your-galaxy-s2/
2- JTAG method (i have a riff box, but i didn't use it before).
3- motherboard replacement.
so, which method is the easiest one, which i should try first?
note: there is electricity in the phone, the camera and the place around is hot after letting the phone attached.
Try a jig, & hope you're the 1 in 10,000 that it works for in these situations. Then, if you can find someone who does JTAG's & is prepared to have a look at your phone on the basis of you only pay them if a JTAG is possible, do that (again, very unlikely to be possible). Finally, you can either pay a Samsung service centre a fair bit of money to put a new motherboard in, or you can source a 2nd hand one from a 'donor' phone & either replace yourself or pay a local mobile repair shop to do it (cheaper than the Samsung option).
MistahBungle said:
Try a jig, & hope you're the 1 in 10,000 that it works for in these situations. Then, if you can find someone who does JTAG's & is prepared to have a look at your phone on the basis of you only pay them if a JTAG is possible, do that (again, very unlikely to be possible). Finally, you can either pay a Samsung service centre a fair bit of money to put a new motherboard in, or you can source a 2nd hand one from a 'donor' phone & either replace yourself or pay a local mobile repair shop to do it (cheaper than the Samsung option).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you, i'll try the jig method, then if not the jtag one, after that i'll tell you what is the result.
I have a Galaxy S2. The IMEI (and the BaseBand as well) lost after loading a custom ROM to it. No, there was no EFS backup.
I have tried:
1. Flashing original stock rom via Odin.
2. HC-kTool
3. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1264021 - Couldn't completely finish this one as there is no '.nv_data' at step #6
4. GSII_Repair - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.helroz.GSII_Repair
So I gave up and went to a GSM shop. They could (somehow) write the original IMEI back, but they said loading a new rom "deletes" the IMEI again. They tested it several times. I'm not sure whether this applies for the software update as well. They can't do anything else.
Is there any way to bring my phone back to it's original shape?
Nothing you can do yourself, no. Unless you want to buy the equipment, learn how to use it & try repairing it yourself.
Take it to another repair shop. Anyone who actually knows what they're doing should be able to fix this. Or take to a Samsung service centre. Or change the motherboard (service centre might do this if it really isn't fixable via the 'normal means').
MistahBungle said:
Nothing you can do yourself, no. Unless you want to buy the equipment, learn how to use it & try repairing it yourself.
Take it to another repair shop. Anyone who actually knows what they're doing should be able to fix this. Or take to a Samsung service centre. Or change the motherboard (service centre might do this if it really isn't fixable via the 'normal means').
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt changing the motherboard would worth it. Any idea about the price of the 'normal means' in Samsung service centre?
Not in your country, no idea. When I say the 'normal means' I'm referring to what that shop who tried to repair it did/told you it wasn't possible. This is the first time I've seen anyone on here post saying re-writing the IMEI to the phone was tried (which is normally what a service centre will do; in my country at least) & failed/isn't possible.
So the first thing I'd be doing is taking it to another shop (not Samsung service centre, because a Samsung service centre will often charge you more for a given repair purely because they can.) & have them try it. It should be possible unless there's something wrong hardware-wise which has coincidentally happened at the same time you've had this issue.
If they tell you the same thing, then you either take it to a service centre or perhaps source a 2nd hand board from a donor phone & swap the board yourself or pay a local shop to do it.
MistahBungle said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. What kind of harware issue could possibly cause something like this?
That's a very good question. Without having the phone to diagnose that would be almost impossible to say. But that assumes it is some kind of hardware issue & not just a case of whomever tried to fix the phone not really knowing what they were doing.