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Hey all - I am VERY loath to ask any of these questions, as I pride myself on doing research and figuring things out for myself, but I've come to the point where I just need to ask this community. I purchased the Gtab as part of the Woot fiasco, and immediately replaced stock firmware with Vegantab. From a general perspective, it works fine, with all the know quirks. However, this is my first Android device. I've been modifying windows phones and working with jailbroken iphones and other fiddly things with computers for a long time, so I'm not faint-hearted at tweaking. Anyway, my questions are these:
Given the hardware this thing sports, the performance ROTS. Is it because the OS is just not polished? It's slow to shift from screen to screen. It often delays in recognizing my touch when trying to scroll icons that it thinks I actually am trying t launch an app. In general, it just feels inferior in speed and snappiness of, for instance, iOS (I understand it is much easier to have a single platform to put an OS on and optimize it). I get the program not responding screen, wait or close way too frequently for my tastes.
Then there's the fact that every app installed seems to want to run itself in the background at all times. I'm constantly using the task manager to kill everything, which frees up a ton of RAM and then the tab runs better for a little while. I can't seem to find a way to prevent these apps from doing this. There is probably something very obvious that I am missing, but Facebook should not just decide on its own to run in the background when I haven't launched it.
Any thoughts on any of these things, or can someone point me to an obvious FAQ that I'm missing that answers all my questions?
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes. That said, I have advanced task killer widget on my home screen and use it whenever things get a little sluggish. I don't use the Facebook app, but most apps have the option in the in-app settings to disable background updates. There are task manager apps that claim to prevent other apps from launching at start up, or kill them automatically, but these will usually end up eating more resources than they save.
As far as home screen switching, I'm not a fan of the stock froyo launcher on a tablet this size. It always seems that the device is expecting a much larger swipe that should be necessary to switch home screens. I use Launcher Pro and it feels faster and more responsive than the iPad 2 for going between home screens.
The scrolling/ inadvertent selecting issue I can relate to. If your coming from iOS, there is this an expectation that the device will always tell the difference between a scroll and a tap. That expectation isn't unreasonable, because Apple is stellar at making scrolling interfaces feel perfect. They have whole sessions at WWDC about implementing scrolling lists into apps. Android on the other hand requires a more deliberate scrolling. Android has gotten a lot better over time, but it often requires a much more deliberate scrolling action by the user. "Flicking" like on the iPad usually doesn't register perfectly for me.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
brettdwagner said:
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes.
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It's like automatic garbage collection, isn't it? Really useful, but sometimes you want to explicitly free things.
There is a way to kill foreground apps on Android. Settings > Applications > Development > Stop app via long-press, will kill the foreground app if you "long-press" the Android back key. Background apps you can either kill using task-managers or not start at all using tools like Autorun Manager from Market.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
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Yeah, I've noticed this too. Pinch-to-zoom at the same y-axis is hopeless. Same x-axis works okay, but, at an angle works best.
I actually appreciated your post. You knew the limitations of hte device before buying it...you didn't comment on the atrocious screen (and accepted what was to be)
The biggest downfall with the G-Tablet itself was it's software. You admitted that you immediately flashed VeganTab. When I bought mine, it came with TNT Lite, to which I then immediately also flashed to Vegan 5.1.1. I never experienced the stock rom, and actually considered myself lucky, due to the reviews I've read.
I think that some of our issues may actually be due to the fact that we're using software that wasn't specifically designed for OUR devices. Yes, they are all android, yes, they should all work fine, and do, at times, but if using a froyo or gingerbread rom, we're using software designed for phones. I haven't tried the Alpha version of HC (BOS) yet, but even in Alpha stages, people are raving about it, even with it's limitations.
I just recently started using Brilliant Corners. In the flash process, I had to have Stock 4349 (1.2 stock firmware) on the system. I can honestly say that it really wasn't that bad. The response seemed a tad better, I never got the "Forceclose : Wait" option when a process was "thinking." things would just pop up. I can only think that as bad as it is, it manages itself better than some of the ports and mod's we are using, simply becuase they were MADE for the G-Tablet. Yeah, it's ugly, and you can do half of what I can do on BC.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
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It works for me, although the birds do take off on their own from time to time. Have you tried downloading from a different source? I pulled my angry birds from Amazon. I'm running Vegan-Tabs 7.0.0
Please don't be offended, as I do believe your question is being asked in good faith. However, I have to admit that I haven't experienced any of the problems you're describing. I've had an iPod Touch since gen 1, and I haven't noticed any difference in the responsiveness. My g Tablet responds the same to flicks as it does to slower swipes, without interpretting them as taps.
I also haven't experienced the slow downs you're referring to when running multiple background apps, though that may have to do with the particular apps you have.
I have not had an issue with zooming in and out by pinching along either the x- or y-axis
Finally, I at least don't feel like the swipe to change screens is excesssive, but then again that could be personal taste or because I'm using a Gingerbread-based ROM.
The one issue I do have is with the on-screen touch keyboard. I feel sometimes that it fails to register letters if I type too fast; I haven't had this issue with iOS, but at least I think I can get used to it, and for serious typing I'll probably use a physical keyboard.
Incidently, I'm using Cyanogenmod 7, which seems to be the "pet ROM" of these forums, for better (it's a solid ROM with a large developer community) or worse (it's not nearly as innovative as mods being developed by some "other users" *ahem*roebeet*cough). I'm not saying this is the reason why I have not experienced these issues; maybe they aren't so striking to me or maybe I've been lucky?
EDITTED: Most typos are due to annoyances with using an on-screen keyboard with the g Tab.
Tablet has been fine to me. Screen responsiveness is on par with iphone/ipad/my htc evo screen.
Vegan tab rom is fresh...all .my functions work sure my wifi drops out after sleeping for a while (yes changed sleep settings) but hey I spent 250 not 500 and I have flash sd and usb....all of which I use everyday.
Thanks for all the responses. I rather expected to get somewhat of a range of replies from "I agree with you" to "you're crazy, mine is fine". To be very clear, I'm not trying to rip on the device at all. I knew I was rolling the dice a little and I know that Android really hasn't matured for a Tablet just yet (in my eyes).
I guess I've sort of had my questions answered to some degree.
scyld - I'm not offended in the least. I have an iphone 4 and many of my coworkers use iPads every day. They are definitely more responsive (to me). However, the stock iOS wasn't on my iPhone. Now that I have it jailbroken and can control which apps suck up memory, it behaves flawlessly. What I believe to be the scrolling/flicking issue is actually that the OS interprets spaces IN BETWEEN icons to be part of those icons, where Apple's OS does not. If I tap between icons on the Gtab, it will launch the one closest to my finger. iOS will not do this. That alone may be why the scrolling seems to be more accurate. I may well try Cyanogen. I mostly don't care about bells and whistles - just responsiveness and usability.
I wasn't aware that Google used the same line about memory usage that Apple swears - in fact, my friend and I stopped in the Apple store because she was having a problem with docking her iphone in her car... The tech ran a scan and told her incidentally that she was out of app memory and told her how to 'kill those pesky tasks' by tapping the little red minuses on all the apps in the app dock. I couldn't stop laughing.
I guess what we're dealing with is the result of an open source open hardware landscape. By having such a fractured base of developers, manufacturers, varying hardware specs, etc, it is much harder to optimize any particular build for any particular device. I did use the stock firmware for a few days and simply found it too limiting. Not to mention the lack of a market, etc. Apple's success is in large part due to the way it's app store works. Every device has it. The app warns you what it will work on and what it will not. Application updates tell you what the update fixes or adds (which Market does only very rarely). I appreciate that there are multiple markets for Android, but they should stick to some established rules for the information given.
I'm writing a novel - sorry - All this being said, I love the idea of Android (and hate iTunes with a passion) and I'm looking forward to a generation or two down the road of the tablet ROMs. I'll give the other ROMs a shot and see if there is improvement. I really appreciate the developers work on the platform thus far. I'll keep reading and messing with settings, tips, tricks to improve what I can.
Maybe I posted this in the wrong section,so sorry,asking to Zecanilis . Do anyone have an iPhone here? If so,anyone can tell why Android/iOS is better? I don't wanna know it,wanna know your opinions only
So,I prefer Android because it's opensource p) and because it's more "customizable" ha
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Wow, why do we need a topic like this ? Sorry, but if you write this on Google you can find thousands of them. This will only end with flames and fights. Nothing useful.
badeaioan said:
Wow, why do we need a topic like this ? Sorry, but if you write this on Google you can find thousands of them. This will only end with flames and fights. Nothing useful.
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Yeah,infact I firstly posted and already-existing thread and I had to change thread theme. I apologize for this but what could I do?
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Actually, I like such threads, because they remind macfa...uh....macfans D) to keep quiet when it comes to comparisons to Android. Android is superior from almost any point of view.
metalboy94 said:
Actually, I like such threads, because they remind macfa...uh....macfans D) to keep quiet when it comes to comparisons to Android. Android is superior from almost any point of view.
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Yeah. But... I have to admit,for me AppStore games are better
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adobe ceo has said that apple can only dream of flash coming to ios because they are simply not going to make adobe flash of ios...
this is BIG + for android...
ciaox said:
Yeah. But... I have to admit,for me AppStore games are better
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Care to explain why? 'Cause both AppStore and Android Market contain their fair share of crap.
@ccdreadcc: True, although with the advent of HTML5 I'm not sure how long Flash support will continue to be an advantage of Android...
Android wins do to notifications the apps not games there more intgrated with the os an its changeable u can change everything an make ur phone look diffrent an i enjoy that no 2 phones look the same an iphone there identical but they do have better games an browser is better with pinching an zooming but my sgs is a little faster with apps closed but with stuff runing its laggy an ios is mostly smooth all the time but they dont have real multi tasking
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this old comic tells everything LINK
soberspine said:
this old comic tells everything LINK
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Exacly its ur phone u can do wat u plz tphone(therephone) 4 its not yours but u payed 1million 4 it
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You honestly can't go wrong with either and really depends on what you like. Honestly, I think why iPhone sales are so high is because people are misinformed about the product. Everyone gets it because they have been told to or think its cool since everyone has one, but at the end of the day both operating systems can do the same or maybe better(android).
I'd say both have their plus points. I've got my O1, which is my first android device. I love the ability to customise each and every part of it. We are all fans of this OS, we already know how great it is
But what I don't like about android, is the lack of quality content on the market, specially for low end devices like ours. I've got an iPhone 3GS too, and when you access the appstore on it, there's lots of great stuff out there.
Another downside is the lack of software optimisation. We got great hardware, with ****ty software: not a great combination. For e.g. my old iPod Touch 2nd gen still runs every damn single game I put on it without a drop of lagging, whereas we all know what happens on our O1. If we did not have such great developers here, we wouldn't be enjoying our O1 that much. :/
And before someone says something like, "you got a weak device, you should buy a SGS2 or whatever to feel the true power of android," I got one thing to say: each and every one of apple's products are optimised directly from manufacturers, their users dont need to depend on external developers. We can't say that much about our devices though.
Well my experience with iOS comes from an iPod Touch 3rd Gen that I've owned for 1.5 years, and my experience with Android comes from my O1 that I've owned for 2 weeks.
As others have mentioned I love my O1 and I think that Android as an "OS" it's definitely great, and I believe that if we were to compare iOS Vs. ANDROID only at the "OS" level, the Android OS it's superior essentially because it's a powerful, open source OS that allows you to go under the hood and tweak it or improve it, whereas with iOS is just a black box that you access only through APIs published by the manufacturer.
The thing is that comparing OS to OS does not makes much sense to the end user since what's more important is comparing "The Experience" of owning and using a phone with iOS Vs a phone with ANDROID, and at that level I think that iOS/iPhone definitely provides a much solid, cohesive and overall better experience to the end user (at least from my point of view):
1-) On iOS the OS and the Hardware are "One", since we have one company that manufactures the hardware and builds and optimize the OS to run only on that hardware, providing a longer life cycle for your product since the strategy of the manufacturer (Apple) is not focused on launching a new model every 3-4 months (as it is with Android phone manufacturers). Apple's focus is actually selling as much of the same model as they can over a period of at least one year.
2-) The Appstore even though is much more restrictive (than the Market) provides a much more controlled and predictable experience for App Developers, because they only have to worry about complying with the guidelines established by their development platform, and not with developing an App that will have to run as good as possible on hardware created by 8 or 10 different manufactures who have 100+ different phone models. Volume becomes an issue and so far developers have more success selling a 99 cents app on the Appstore than selling a $5 app on the Market. Take a look at this post from a renowned Game Developer talking about his experience about porting a hit game on the Appstore to the Android Market
Bottom line is that it all comes down to the Apps more than the hardware itself (we know that phones like the Samsung Galaxy S2 beats the crap out of an iPhone 4 and basically anything else), but all that powerful hardware, dual core processors and beefy GPUs can't do much if quality Apps are not there to take advantage of it, and so far Apple has done a better job in creating a suitable environment for developers at all levels: Programming, Marketing, Billing and Post-Sales Support.
When it comes to consumers (us) I definetely prefer the android cause i'm not willing to pay a sh1tload of money to buy a marketing bloat product which targets to rip off the ignorant gudget fashion victums. I want to be able to have a smartphone for 200 euros and to be able to customize it and use it the way I want and not the way they want.
And I don't want to hear a thing about better games etc etc cause if I want games i'll go and buy a psp and the total amount of money for low/mid-end android + psp will still be conciderably lower than an apple icrap
I will write my opinion, but everybody has an unique opinion so it may not matter.
As stated above, iOs and the hardware of the iPhone are one, they are designed and built as an entity. The result is the most powerful phone. Apart from the antenna problem the iphone had, the phone is perfect. And it will still be. The single-core iPhone 4 runs as smooth as dual-core android phones. Because android phones took everything that was good in linux, but also what is bad.
Android is for the guys that like customization, playing with their devices. You will never have to jailbreak an iPhone, as it's os is godlike anyway. The nasty part is that most of appstore games cost $ and some people may not be so willing to pay for every app they have.
Apart from the price, ioS is better than android, and i consider that anyone who disagrees is just sad he can't afford an iphone.That doesn't mean android is not good, because it is excellent, but still not quite at the apple's product level. Peace
Well I have also tried iOS, I own an iPod Touch 2G (MC, so it's the newer iteration). Sure, there are quality games by Gameloft & co. on the AppStore which also run alright on the iPod, but on 4.2 it gets really slow if you have any other tweaks on it, or if you activated multitasking and wallpapers.
What would definitely improve the Android experience is Gameloft getting their head out of their @ss and port their great games to lower-end devices as well. I really can't see what's the problem with minimum requirements for CPU and RAM if they really think 320x480 games would confuse customers, due to it being the most popular Android low-end resolution.
Other than that, Android is better than iOS simply because it allows you to do more stuff without hacks. First and foremost, the ability to use the phone as a mass storage device (Google should allow mass storage without additional drivers, it would be useful in certain situations, such as at school, where computers are usually blocked from installing drivers ).
@vador9: Sorry mate, but you're just as much of a d*ck as the other Apple fans. I can afford an iPhone, but that doesn't mean I WANT to spend that much money. Partly because the only reason for that price is the glass in it.
metalboy94 said:
Well I have also tried iOS, I own an iPod Touch 2G (MC, so it's the newer iteration). Sure, there are quality games by Gameloft & co. on the AppStore which also run alright on the iPod, but on 4.2 it gets really slow if you have any other tweaks on it, or if you activated multitasking and wallpapers.
What would definitely improve the Android experience is Gameloft getting their head out of their @ss and port their great games to lower-end devices as well. I really can't see what's the problem with minimum requirements for CPU and RAM if they really think 320x480 games would confuse customers, due to it being the most popular Android low-end resolution.
Other than that, Android is better than iOS simply because it allows you to do more stuff without hacks. First and foremost, the ability to use the phone as a mass storage device (Google should allow mass storage without additional drivers, it would be useful in certain situations, such as at school, where computers are usually blocked from installing drivers ).
@vador9: Sorry mate, but you're just as much of a d*ck as the other Apple fans. I can afford an iPhone, but that doesn't mean I WANT to spend that much money. Partly because the only reason for that price is the glass in it.
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You can actually do Mass Storage without the drivers.
And please, do not insult any other forum members. Whatever his opinion may be, its his, it should be respected. Its only a sharing of opinion, not a war.
Android has a great user interface, its highly customisable, it offers whatever someone may want. It's just that rare are the devices which really makes android look so good.
To explain this, I'll take the example of our fabulous O1. Forget about the pricing, let's just analyse the phone in itself: a nice phone, with great features, and a wonderful OS. The OS can do pretty much everything. Now where is the problem? LG, LG is the problem. I agree we paid for a low end phone, but that doesnt mean it should contain ****ty bugs, like the screen lag for example. Even with gingerbread out, it still has not been solved.
Its often the device which holds many a problems, not the OS. This is where iOS has an advantage, it's been used only on a couple of devices, and both the devices and the OS are manufactured by the same company. This causes a great optimisation. For example again, on any iOS device you may not be able to send a file via bluetooth properly (limited by the OS), but you have a smooth touchscreen with no lag at all and you almost never have an error popping up now and then (from the manufacturer).
Moreover, when we say "Appstore offers a larger range of quality apps than that of Android Market", its not just about games. Often basic apps are of much lower quality on the Market, e.g. compare the Facebook app on both platform, and you'll see that the Android version is weak.
Overall:
Android wins when it comes to customisation and performance (provided you have a good device), and iOS has an upper hand when it comes to best user experience and high quality apps
( ) iPhone
( ) iPad
( ) iPad 2
( ) iPod Touch
(✔) iDon't have money
(Certainly not for overpriced hype from a vendor whose customer attitude is way worse than Microsoft's )
Vip_blast said:
You can actually do Mass Storage without the drivers.
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You can? Please enlighten me, I thought it really needed the LG Android drivers for that.
Also, he insulted us first, by implying we all are too poor to get iPhones and that's why we're jealous and say iOS is worse.
This question has flooded my mind almost as much as Android has flooded the market...
Does anyone else think that Android has gone out of control? I mean there are literally dozens of devices announced / released every week, updates are a mess, developing is tricky due to all the different versions of the OS, screen resolution, cpu, gpu etc. The custom overlays is so common that the AOSP phones are almost non existant.
Manufacturers release a new phone each week since its an easy buck because its free and they know that with Android it cant keep a decent life span since its forgotten pretty much the day its released since all the new phone arriving or due to arrive, so asking for good support is a bit much nowadays. It seems like Android is becoming the new "featurephone OS" since almost every phone released runs it, so imo it loses its Premium feel since i can run most of the same apps in a crappy free budget device than a high end monster save some games and speed...
I have had dozens of android devices, from the HTC Touch port, to the EVO 3D, and frankly its hard to get exited for an android device nowadays since theres always something bigger and better almost immediatly instead of living out its life span before it gets eclipsed by something else. Thats why i like the iOS and WP7 approach since they release it in batches (cept apple because its 1) in a certain time frame, so you know you dont have to worry about being left behind or being behind the curve for a good while (i you care about that stuff like me) OS updates are a sure thing, app compatibility is all there and it just feels more integrated and organized
Android feels like mess actually, i have an android and really like the OS but honestly, its a touch friendly version of Windows Mobile in my eyes. It has all the features you would wanr, but performance is inconsistant, user experience is a mess, updates are hit and miss, and development is a headache
Sorry to rant so much, i really like Android actually, but got to the point that flooded the market with such a thing has ruined a good thing imo
Any imput?
s3nT Fr0m mY pYrAmId fLaVoReD gLaCi3r
*Fixed a few things
Well, I believe that's what android is about. Its like windows, many different computers run different versions of windows. I understand the "premium feel" aspect, but there's no alternative to Linux on phones besides android.
on the other hand, no one wants to be as confined as iphone. there is nothing unique between one iphone and another. they are both iphones whereas android has variety
It'll really be interesting to see what the future holds. Android could replace Windows and MacOS in a lot of ways.
Good post OP. I feel, as you do, that the fragmentation of the Android platform is a complete mess. It would have been nice if Google had more control over what happened to the OS on a manufacturer level. I'd have liked, at the very least, to have seen a minimum hardware requirement, an outright ban on carrier bloat and manufacturer skins too. I'm a purist though and some people buy HTC, for example, because they want 'Sense'. Personally i believe these skins should have been an optional component, perhaps available as a Market download.
Updates to the OS should have been arranged in a more consistent and controlled manner too, but with the diversity of hardware it has become a crap-shoot. Manufacturers are churning out phone after phone and most are horribly derivative. Of course, it's all about the $$.
I'm a fan of what Microsoft are doing with the WP7 platform and can only dream about a similar scenario with Android!
I think its all good.Its all about freedom.The freedom to choose you firmware,kernal,ROM or what ever.Others like iOS are to confined.Its great.
It is just because android is "opened". All manufacturers can produce and sell a phone running android. Like the computers, for example, you can't say to HP that "Why did you guys releases computers so fast? ASUS just released one yesterday!"
Also about what you think android is complicated is because of it's customizability (ability to be customized). When it can be very personalized, it gets a lot of settings. When it have a lot of settings, things get complicated. This is also why every android device is unique
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I've always been a PC guy and have used Macs in the past. I'm just used to Windows as opposed to an iOS. The fact that Android is open sourced, it allows for any user to customize it however they want.
I own an EVO 3D, and own an iPod Touch. There's endless possibilities on what I can do on the 3D versus what I can do on the iPod. I also know that the iPod can be jailbroken as well.
I do understand your argument as there are many different phones that come out each week/month. It gets overwhelming as to which device is better and what not, but it all comes down to what the end user wants for a device that fits their needs. A typical user just wants to be able to call, text, and get online. These typical users would like to see different styles, colors, sizes that fit their lifestyle.
Apple has a standardized iPhone/iPod and it receives an update once in a while. Granted, you can pick out a cover for it in different colors and styles, but it has the same UI look.
But I, on the other hand, like to tinker and like to customize the device of my choice.
Based on the fact that we're all members here on this forum by choice and are happily reading and writing...I'd say that there's no such thing as too much.
Although I'll be honest, I was dying to just say about this much "...................." (there I said it)
i agree that android is all over the place with late updates ect however i love the fact that its available in all flavors not just one flavor like you know who.
Android is just the hip thing. It's quickly becoming to mobile-devices what MS-DOS/Windows was to home computers. Only, the licensing is different
That doesn't mean there's too much of it though. Android is still linux at its core, and part of that is putting up with the disorganized community development.
https://plus.google.com/10083827609...aJRGS#100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
Any dev's or knowledgeable people want to take a crack at this? Is it based in fact, fiction, or irrelevant?
IDK, some things made since and some didnt. The whole writup seemed to be based on iOs vs. Android on scrolling. If you break down what iOs is, its an app launcher. Android is a home screen with live widgets and information. A true comparison would be Androids app page vs. iOs since both would be app launchers.
I never understood why people try and compare apples to oranges... or in this case, an app launcher to a 5 page home screen with tons of live information on it.
I think the guy was pretty clear on identifying bias and also gaugeing how factual his claimes are. I believe him and am confident that the corrections have made it Accurate.
The last post is true. Apple has locked down and simplified their os in the sake of smoothness. Where android has opted to provide a mors content rich experiance.
But at the same time hardware fragmentation is huge, ik he says that no matter how powerful the phones get this is a limitatikn, there is a huge problem with the fact that... Some procs. Support neon and other optimizations while ofhers don't. More often than not, app devs write their apps for the least powerful in an attempt to capture everyone, in the end, the most powerful loose out on the true potential of their device.
Look at push for example, most apps that i see still have bruit force check every 5 min type notifications even though android now has push. this is getting fixed, but slowly.
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I think the biggest problem android faces is the carriers. Buy an iPhone and there is zero carrier crap installed. Buy android and bloaty mcfatty land.
Thanks to xda development we can purge this crap (revs you rock!), but for the vast majority this is akin to voodoo and they would never attempt it.
As such android gets a bad rap. If the carriers would just be content with having their names on the phone and nothing else I posit that there would be globally better view of android. Just my two cents.
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CyberpunkDad said:
I think the biggest problem android faces is the carriers. Buy an iPhone and there is zero carrier crap installed. Buy android and bloaty mcfatty land.
Thanks to xda development we can purge this crap (revs you rock!), but for the vast majority this is akin to voodoo and they would never attempt it.
As such android gets a bad rap. If the carriers would just be content with having their names on the phone and nothing else I posit that there would be globally better view of android. Just my two cents.
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I thought it was just the United States carriers that did this?
But, as android is an open model it opens up possibilities for carriers to customize the devices as they wish at little to no cost, also, allowing them to install apps to earn sidestreamed revenue.
I hate the carrier branding on my phone. I really really wish there was a way to get the AT&T logo off my phone.
The only place I'd allow it is the sim card.
demon9206 said:
I hate the carrier branding on my phone. I really really wish there was a way to get the AT&T logo off my phone.
The only place I'd allow it is the sim card.
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That's what you and I and many others in US pay for a subsidized phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
But my unsubsidized Galaxy Tab 10.1 wi-fi is still laggy as hell. It's not the fault of carrier bloatware. Android OS is the one to blame. My WP7 phones runing a single core 1GHz Sanpdragon is much more smoother than any Android phones I owned, including the GS2.
No lag problems with my 10.1...
CyberpunkDad said:
I think the biggest problem android faces is the carriers. Buy an iPhone and there is zero carrier crap installed. Buy android and bloaty mcfatty land.
Thanks to xda development we can purge this crap (revs you rock!), but for the vast majority this is akin to voodoo and they would never attempt it.
As such android gets a bad rap. If the carriers would just be content with having their names on the phone and nothing else I posit that there would be globally better view of android. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Bingo! This is exactly what I have thought for years. Buy an unlocked Nexus S if you doubt this at all and you'll see a different Android. Or, root your phone, flash a vanilla rom and install something like ADWLauncher EX and set it to "fast". Once all the crap and skin is wiped, my current GS2 switches tasks and pages so fast that sometimes I can't even see it happen. I literally burned my hand the other day on my phone.
WMguy said:
Bingo! This is exactly what I have thought for years. Buy an unlocked Nexus S if you doubt this at all and you'll see a different Android. Or, root your phone, flash a vanilla rom and install something like ADWLauncher EX and set it to "fast". Once all the crap and skin is wiped, my current GS2 switches tasks and pages so fast that sometimes I can't even see it happen. I literally burned my hand the other day on my phone.
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What I really can't get my head around is how AT&T can think that people want their ****ty apps. They are an embarrassment.
I'm no expert, but I think that some of the apps that are on our phones out-of-box are there so that the price of the phone can be driven shown a bit more. It makes sense that AT&T would have agreements with the app makers to get money for including their app. Maybe they use that revenue to offset the overhead of distributing the device and pass that savings along to their customers.
I'm certainly not defending what they do, but just saying that could be a reason why some of this crapware is pre-installed.
Another way to look at it would be that many of the apps cost money to use. They will enroll you in some service you don't need (AT&T Nav, Live TV, etc.). Then they can steal from us by placing these little services onto our plan to be billed monthly. I have worked in customer care for one of "the big four" carriers and they would train us to employ similar tactics to trick existing customers into buying stuff. They're really like fat leaches attached to the inside of our wallets.
I have a focus and a gs2. Yes wp7 scrolls the home screen, notice I say screen since there is only one, smooth as silk. The animations are also very smooth but way too much and slowwww. Where you see the difference is in apps. Hell rebooting my focus takes forever. The engadget app and lazy tube app on wp7 really make the phone stutter and freeze. I have iPhones, winphones and androids and in my experience the gs2 is by far the fastest phone i own by a large margin. I still love the iPhone and winphone btw. The winphone is a first Gen device so it's performance is damned impressive. The animations and how slow it scrolls webpages/long lists annoy me. In android if you flick down a list real fast it goes like lightning, on the winphone it has a governor of sorts and I find myslef constantly trying to get it to scroll faster.
I know it sounds like I'm crapping on the winphone but that's not the case. It really is a cool os handbills recommend trying it out. I got a used focus for next to nothing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Again, people are comparing apples to oranges... an app launcher (or in WinMo case, an app launcher with really large app links) to a multi-page homescreen with live information.
Try this, use the App launcher in Android and scroll back and fourth, up and down and now compare it to iOs or WinMo. YA, NOW THEY SCROLL THE SAME!!!
If you feel that your home screen is laggy, then either get a new launcher, or dont put any widgets/icons/shorcuts/pictures/ANYTHING on your home screen.
foxbat121 said:
But my unsubsidized Galaxy Tab 10.1 wi-fi is still laggy as hell. It's not the fault of carrier bloatware. Android OS is the one to blame. My WP7 phones runing a single core 1GHz Sanpdragon is much more smoother than any Android phones I owned, including the GS2.
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You shouldve exchanged that GS2. I guarantee it would/should kick wp7 in its ass in terms of performance.
smknutson said:
You shouldve exchanged that GS2. I guarantee it would/should kick wp7 in its ass in terms of performance.
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No you can't. Obviously you don't own a WP7. All Android phones I handled (BTW, my co-worker has another GS2, same deal) are no where near the smoothness of year old (with two year old single core Snapdragon) Samsung Focus in terms of home screen smoothness. When it comes to lag and stutters, I'm writing it off as the necessary evil I have to deal with if I'm going to use any Android devices. Too those who deny it, you need to go out and play with other platforms like WP7 or iPhone to understand what is lag.
I like Android. Thus I'm on my second Android Phone and even own an Android tablet. But to deny the obvious and inherent flaw in the OS is either ignorant or pure fanboyism.
Remember, I'm purely talking about home screen. When it comes to app, a lot of other factors come into play and CPU speed does make a difference. Home screen is where we spent most time and most complaint about lag is about.
foxbat121 said:
No you can't. Obviously you don't own a WP7. All Android phones I handled (BTW, my co-worker has another GS2, same deal) are no where near the smoothness of year old (with two year old single core Snapdragon) Samsung Focus in terms of home screen smoothness. When it comes to lag and stutters, I'm writing it off as the necessary evil I have to deal with if I'm going to use any Android devices. Too those who deny it, you need to go out and play with other platforms like WP7 or iPhone to understand what is lag.
I like Android. Thus I'm on my second Android Phone and even own an Android tablet. But to deny the obvious and inherent flaw in the OS is either ignorant or pure fanboyism.
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Opening apps in WP7 has a considerable delay too. The WP7 homescreen is nothing, but a start menu. The live tile functionality really isn't there yet.
Yes, app loading is slow on first version of WP7 but it has greatly improved since then. What's the point of a great home screen when it lags like hell? GS2 is much better than my Captivate as well as my GTab 10.1. But I can still feel some slight lagness. My GTab 10.1 is almost unusable until 3.2 ROM released. Android's only saving grace right now is the raw processing power increase of the new phones that hides these inherent flaws in the OS. Google, or its partners, still has a long way to go to improve the UX of Android OS.
I mean perhaps not as smooth as ios but better than this honeycomb crap lol
broken1i said:
I mean perhaps not as smooth as ios but better than this honeycomb crap lol
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100% it runs smooth as butter on the Galaxy Nexus and that's only two cores. ICS with the hardware acceleration and 4/5 cores should be super fast.
ICS will be a significant improvement across the board on everything. IMO this honeycomb is already as smooth as IOS and I own an Ipad to constantly compare it to some people report lag, most report it being super fast. I never had any lag issues since I got this on 12/22.
You'd be surprised what one or two crappy apps set to "quietly load" on start up can do to android, even with 4 cores or my sgs2 overclocked to 1.6ghz. #1 culprit running/lagging in background, engadget app. I have no problem running it, but with a desktop widget once you run and hit back or home without "killing" it it'll take 80% cpu for no reason for god knows how long. With my gs2 my pocket starts cookin a bit as engadget is one of the only apps that bug-pegs it at 1.6ghz long term, even with the screen off, lol. And yes i see the irony, though the engadget app isnt alone. I've just learned to kill that app and remove what i dont use regularly (titanium is great for this).
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Until android rewrite the UI it will never be as 'smooth' as IOS.
IOS have a seperate layer for the UI as soon as you touch the screen all processing stops (apps would never finish installing, web browser would never finish loading) and continues as soon as you remove your finger.
With android loading continues regardless of if your touching the screen or not, so it then has to try and do both things at once hence the lag when an app is installing or web page loading.
4 cores when utilised properly with ICS will help though
well gang it will be here on the 12th, can't wait.
kevinm2k said:
Until android rewrite the UI it will never be as 'smooth' as IOS.
IOS have a seperate layer for the UI as soon as you touch the screen all processing stops (apps would never finish installing, web browser would never finish loading) and continues as soon as you remove your finger.
With android loading continues regardless of if your touching the screen or not, so it then has to try and do both things at once hence the lag when an app is installing or web page loading.
4 cores when utilised properly with ICS will help though
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How do you explain the Playbook running so smooth with everything truly running in the background?. Its as smooth as iOS. (RIM actually got something right) Android lags because its badly optimised compared to iOS, QNX, WebOS and others. ICS is a step closer to getting there but not yet, it is smooth but not 'as' smooth.
recklesslife85 said:
How do you explain the Playbook running so smooth with everything truly running in the background?. Its as smooth as iOS. (RIM actually got something right) Android lags because its badly optimised compared to iOS, QNX, WebOS and others. ICS is a step closer to getting there but not yet, it is smooth but not 'as' smooth.
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Maybe the playbook had the UI rewritten. I got my information from an interview with a lead android developer and they explained what I said above. Android was developed to compete with symbian and blackberry at the time then when iphone came out, android rushed it to market but at that point the UI was already flawed.
I'll try and find the source but it was from a while ago now. Doesn't mean android isn't as fast as ios, far from it, its just the UI experience
p.s. It wasn't my interview it was just one I found on the web that I was reading, think it was on engadget at some point.
kevinm2k said:
Maybe the playbook had the UI rewritten. I got my information from an interview with a lead android developer and they explained what I said above. Android was developed to compete with symbian and blackberry at the time then when iphone came out, android rushed it to market but at that point the UI was already flawed.
I'll try and find the source but it was from a while ago now. Doesn't mean android isn't as fast as ios, far from it, its just the UI experience
p.s. It wasn't my interview it was just one I found on the web that I was reading, think it was on engadget at some point.
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If you come across it, please PM it to me. Sounds interesting.
Playbook is amazingly smooth even compared to my Prime.. anyways enough about that, not a RIM sales man lol.
Hoping ICS does take advantage of the 4 cores.
Found the article on google+ i'll paste the relevant bit here:
Going Forward
Android UI will never be completely smooth because of the design constraints I discussed at the beginning:
- UI rendering occurs on the main thread of an app
- UI rendering has normal priority
Even with a Galaxy Nexus, or the quad-core EeePad Transformer Prime, there is no way to guarantee a smooth frame rate if these two design constraints remain true. It’s telling that it takes the power of a Galaxy Nexus to approach the smoothness of a three year old iPhone. So why did the Android team design the rendering framework like this?
Work on Android started before the release of the iPhone, and at the time Android was designed to be a competitor to the Blackberry. The original Android prototype wasn’t a touch screen device. Android’s rendering trade-offs make sense for a keyboard and trackball device. When the iPhone came out, the Android team rushed to release a competitor product, but unfortunately it was too late to rewrite the UI framework.
This is the same reason why Windows Mobile 6.5, Blackberry OS, and Symbian have terrible touch screen performance. Like Android, they were not designed to prioritise UI rendering. Since the iPhone’s release, RIM, Microsoft, and Nokia have abandoned their mobile OS’s and started from scratch. Android is the only mobile OS left that existed pre-iPhone.
So, why doesn’t the Android team rewrite the rendering framework? I’ll let Romain Guy explain:
“...a lot of the work we have to do today is because of certain choices made years ago... ...having the UI thread handle animations is the biggest problem. We are working on other solutions to try to improve this (schedule drawing on vsync instead of block on vsync after drawing, possible use a separate rendering thread, etc.) An easy solution would of course to create a new UI toolkit but there are many downsides to this also.”
Romain doesn’t elaborate on what the downsides are, but it’s not difficult to speculate:
- All Apps would have to be re-written to support the new framework
- Android would need a legacy support mode for old apps
- Work on other Android features would be stalled while the new framework is developed
However, I believe the rewrite must happen, despite the downsides. As an aspiring product manager, I find Android’s lagginess absolutely unacceptable. It should be priority #1 for the Android team.
When the topic of Android comes up with both technical and nontechnical friends, I hear over and over that Android is laggy and slow. The reality is that Android can open apps and render web pages as fast or faster than iOS, but perception is everything. Fixing the UI lag will go a long way to repairing Android’s image.
Beyond the perception issue, lag is a violation of one of Google’s core philosophies. Google believes that things should be fast. That’s a driving philosophy behind Google Search, Gmail, and Chrome. It’s why Google created SPDY to improve on HTTP. It’s why Google builds tools to help websites optimize their site. It’s why Google runs it’s own CDN. It’s why Google Maps is rendered in WebGL. It’s why buffering on Youtube is something most of us remember, but rarely see anymore.
But perhaps the most salient reason why UI lag in Android is unacceptable comes from the field of Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). Modern touch screens imply an affordance language of 1 to 1 mapping between your finger and animations on the screen. This is why the iOS over-scroll (elastic band) effect is so cool, fun, and intuitive. And this is why the touch screens on Virgin America Flights are so frustrating: they are incredibly laggy, unresponsive, and imprecise.
A laggy UI breaks the core affordance language of a touch screen. The device no longer feels natural. It loses the magic. The user is pulled out of their interaction and must implicitly acknowledge they are using an imperfect computer simulation. I often get “lost” in an iPad, but I cringe when a Xoom stutters between home screens. The 200 million users of Android deserve better.
And I know they will have it eventually. The Android team is one of the most dedicated and talented development teams in the world. With stars like +Dianne Hackborn and +Romain Guy around, the Android rendering framework is in good hands.
I hope this post has reduced confusion surrounding Android lag. With some luck, Android 5.0 will bring the buttery-smooth Android we’ve all dreamed about since we first held an HTC G1. In the mean time, I’ll be in Redmond working my butt off trying to get a beautiful and smooth mobile OS some of the recognition it deserves.
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Source: https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
If you read the top of that article. He even admits he was wrong. His article was debunked by a google engineer. (There is a link to it in the post)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
kevinm2k said:
Found the article on google+ i'll paste the relevant bit here:
Source: https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
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that was an excellent read. that was a nice history lesson on Android. Thanks!
edit: I read the Google engineer article that debunked this one before. A certain member here loves to always bring it up to help prove his point..lol
I still believe its true, it does kind of make sense when you think about it, plus google aren't really going to turn around and say "oh yes our UI is badly designed and needs to be re-written".
from my novice experience, the user interface performance seems fine. My first tablet so I don't have anything to base it off. It's about as quick as my old Core 2 XPS laptop running Windows 7.
It would be nice one day to have a buttery smooth experience though so hope ICS helps with the cause!
kevinm2k said:
It would be nice one day to have a buttery smooth experience though so hope ICS helps with the cause!
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I'm sure with ICS you will have an I Can't Believe It's Not Buttery experience.
With the ability to unlock the bootloader comes the ability to install custom roms which means smoothness.
I've seen that happening exactly like that on my phone.
ICS
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
geinome said:
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
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Well your in luck because Asus said they will roll out it starting on the 12th.
geinome said:
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
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Click to collapse
ICS comes out worldwide on the 12th January.