Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
tech_head said:
Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say a lot of the obvious, but let's just say this is um admirable.
tech_head said:
Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your #1, how did you load unauthorized firmware?
I don't understand your #2...what "piece of firmware"?
How do you know it voids your warranty? Did you have issues with the warranty?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
I really doubt something like this would work. The only people on board would be those of us who mod, which make up such a small portion of Samsung's sales, they wouldn't care. The general consumer is where they get their money and said general consumer couldn't care less about Knox.
prshosting.org
Tell your friends and family. Word of mouth is huge.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Samsung sold 213 million phones in 2012.
Two things...
1) Though XDA and all seems huge, only a really really small percentage of cell phone users play around with crap that will effect knox. I doubt a large number of those "don't care" people are going to want join your campaign.
2) There are a lot of great things about Samsung phones and products. It's like people complaining about VZW cost and billing and marketing, but they have great coverage and I'd never switch because someone starts a "boycot Verizon for $$ reasons".
I don't like the S4 lockdown either, but I'd rather have a locked S4 than an unlocked G2.
JeeperDon said:
I don't like the S4 lockdown either, but I'd rather have a locked S4 than an unlocked G2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure I'd agree with this. At the same time o hate Samsung, I'd have a Motorola phone if I wouldn't have had to upgrade when I did. Kind of screwed me.
SirHoover2010 said:
Not sure I'd agree with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to.
JeeperDon said:
You don't have to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea ik. Exactly why I put "at the same time I hate Samsung" so I'm kind of biased
They can make lock downs most of this is to stop forms of piracy in my opinion. I'm new to rooting but I'm from the modding scene. I have no worries do to developers here as I do on game system modding. Give them time nintendo,Sony and Microsoft have done similiar things with updates the push regularly to their gaming consoles and boycoting will not work do to the modding group is a small group that has a small impact they already planned on loosing.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
Boycott yourself, this would defeat the purpose of "DEVELOPER" phones...you knew what you were getting into when buying a consumer s4.
When will people think logically? Samsung wants security. They sell the developer phones completely unlocked for US.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
Knox is high security put on the phone as a bid to gain military contracts. They only want the most secure phones. Do you think Samsung will stop trying to get that military high $$$ over a few people saying they won't buy anymore? Also add to this many corporate businesses that buy bulk phones and contracts and want a more secure phone for their Exchange and corporate software. XDA users are barely a ripple in that ocean of waves.
you should have bought a developer edition if locked bootloader was a concern.
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
not that it matters but i believe a korean family controls 46% of samsung husband wife and 3 kids. just saying.
eklipz3 said:
not that it matters but i believe a korean family controls 46% of samsung husband wife and 3 kids. just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
orangechoochoo said:
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kids don't care. They have the Developers Edition.
orangechoochoo said:
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry i should have made myself a little more clear about the kids but they are adults as well and are vp's and such of samsung and i think the oldest girl was just promoted to run some part of sammy. and yes i bet there's is not locked.
eklipz3 said:
sorry i should have made myself a little more clear about the kids but they are adults as well and are vp's and such of samsung and i think the oldest girl was just promoted to run some part of sammy. and yes i bet there's is not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm...yeah...because the international versions are not locked...neither is Sprint...it is a carrier request to lock bootloaders on Samsung phones, otherwise all phones would be locked. Locked bootloaders and Knox are not the same thing. This thread states it is about Knox. True that Knox in the bootloader prevents you from downgrading the firmware...but does not equal locked. There are many phones with locked bootloaders but no Knox.
Batttie said:
you should have bought a developer edition if locked bootloader was a concern.
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just about a locked bootloader.
If that was all, no issues.
KNOX and SE Linux are now baked in from the bootloader up.
No it was not on my phone when I first got my phone and was not detailed before they rolled it out.
Messing with the bootloader in anyway even an attempted downgrade, void your warranty.
Not tampering by using unauthorized software, but just trying to go to an older version of *SIGNED* firmware will void your warranty.
My issue is this, if my warranty is now void, why can't I install any *SIGNED* firmware that came on the phone?
Related
I'm not a programmer. Actually starting school for programming in a month, but what makes it hard for Devs to unlock them selves?
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium
128-bit encryption key
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
fuzzer said:
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1(0 char)
fuzzer said:
128-bit encryption key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
Paris6906 said:
this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So close. It's actually 2^128. That's two to the power of one-hundred twenty eight.
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
hashish16 said:
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no one is really going to know how it all works for asus until asus releases their tool with the specifics on everything.
but as far as the law goes, if whatever you need warranty work for has nothing to do with you loading custom roms or messing with the kernel etc, you should have no problem sending it in for warranted repairs.
ie, the power button is broken or the screen dies
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Evo_Shift said:
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC Asus did explicitly say that it was nVidia forcing them to lock the bootloader on the Prime. This could of course be BS, but after such a public statement saying this, nVidia would have gone apesh*t if it was not the truth.
It's all to do with the Tegra3 and the Prime being basically a prototype released only for mass beta testing. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Still love my Prime though.
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have to be! It is not a bill, but an exemption to the DMCA. If we can show our support by contacting the Copyright office and showing them that jailbreaking/rooting is beneficial, they can extend the exemption. The EFF has more info on how to contact the Copyright office and how to request that other electronics be included (did you know that tablets are NOT covered in the exemption?) like consoles, tablets, and more.
https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices
XDA has 337,000 active members. This effects all of us. Let them know it should not be illegal to use your electronics however you wish!
It does not affect ALL of us by any means, however, I have already shown my support by donating to the EFF. It's disgusting that a device that you have paid your hard earned cash for can be ruled over with an iron fist as though you are simply renting it for the duration of it's life....
.... Oh that business model sounds familiar.
Doktaphex said:
It does not affect ALL of us by any means...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
silentheero said:
I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
Doktaphex said:
I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for supporting the EFF! All I can do at the moment is to support by getting people motivated.
monkey10120 said:
I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting can be considered as illegal as it uses hacking methods, and so break the software that belongs to the company made the device, even if the software is in majority open source, there are always closed parts that are concern by trading laws.
And be precise please, the'illegal' rooting stuff is ONLY concerning USA.
Plenty of places with some very smart devs where rooting will never become illegal. Russia as an example, or China (where the exemption would only apply to US built product). If some countries want to kill off their engineering and software development communities, plenty of other places in the world will be only too happy to step in and take over.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, android is open source. So then there's no copyright infringement unless you hack the apps or something. IOS on the other hand isn't open source so jailbreaking it could be seen as infringing. But I still disagree that rooting/ jailbreaking should be illegal.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
I havent even gotten the phone yet, it's in the mail. Thankfully i came in here to read and now i know to block ota if i want any hope of getting root.
But it leaves me wondering why do they hate rooting so much? Wireless tether is legal on Verizon and most anything else i can think of would hurt google and app devs before verizon...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
it's not just verizon. the sprint s4 has the same going on. at least according to someone i know that has one. it supposedly has something to do with the knox crap and possibly the lojack stuff they're trying to add to the phones.
i haven't bothered to confirm any of this. just got it from a bit of skimming. work's picking up a bit so i haven't been able to read as much.
It is all about security. Rooted phones do not work well with secure environments. I mean if you really think about it. With the right set up any app can be given root permissions without the user even knowing.
Wayne Tech Nexus
It also voids warranty. If I were selling a product and the consumer rendered the device useless through mods and what have you, I wouldnt want to warranty it either. One of many reasons.
SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
Macknzie said:
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
zelendel said:
Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true, and it's pretty clear from the name that you're getting something different.
It also presents a problem with technical support. A standardized system is far easier to troubleshoot than one wroth dozens of unknown variables.
Also, the OP is only partially correct regarding wireless tether. While Verizon cannot block users from using third party tether apps, they also have the FCC's explicit blessing to require a separate tethering fee for unlimited plan holders
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
HTC lets you unlock the bootloader via a code on their website specific for the individual phone's serial number. One clicks to waive the warranty to get the unlock code, and anyone can boot the phone into bootloader mode to see "unlocked" or "tampered" displayed. That means no warranty.
Verizon was OK with it for HTC phones.
$$$$
Its all about the money they lose so much money as a company.. even though they make billions monthly they still are all about making the consumers pay more
For the s4 its all about security. Samsung is trying to get into the corporate phone market. They released this new locked down bootloader to make companies feel all warm and fuzy. My company allows me to access my work email on my phone but to do so I have to have the phone encrypted with no root.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
onfigTr which
help...
Verizon Blocks Users from Root
Yeah, I'm having that issue myself. I have rooted my previous devices but just purchased a Motorola Turbo from VZW which is LOADED with bloatware that won't go away. So, I thought I'd go the "decent" route and see if they may be nice in return and help me unlock my phone. Holy cow, you'd think I was trying to hack Fort Knox or the Fed! The Mod at the Verizon Community Website summarily deleted my question regarding this. Well, admittedly, I probably was stupid for doing that but, again, I thought I would be "nice" about it but they decided to get nasty and tried scaring me by tell me I was "in violation of FCC regulations and my terms of service" if I even attempted to root my device and he was going to "open an investigation into my "hacking" activities." Wow, talk about a Mod with delusions of god-hood! Okay, illegal to root MY phone, which I PAID for. So, I called VZW CS (I hate talking) and explained my issue and got a complete dolt (as expected) who didn't have a clue even what the Verizon Community Website was...fact is, my only desire is to remove the damn bloat-ware, ads, etc. and increase the battery life. This phone has such potential and they lock it down to such extremes, it's really disappointing. Finally, I got fed up and asked for her supervisor, who was not much better. Supposedly, she is escalating this to Tier 3 Support. Permission to have root access to MY own phone. I was a sys admin for 25+ years and never had to ask permission for root access for my computers...
Suggestions?
qballrail said:
Suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy a Nexus 6p or 5x.
A little late for that.
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
qballrail said:
A little late for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. They're still being sold.
mike.s said:
No. They're still being sold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
XxD34THxX said:
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
Verizon is evil. I have a Galaxy Note Pro from them that I can't even put linux on due to the locked bootloader and kernel without chroot. It's a sad state of affairs. The government should have laws for giving consumers rights to use their devices as they wish
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
qballrail said:
You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfCtvYawVc
I think it's high time that I present myself. I'm not as noob as I can be in the forums. Yes, I don't know Android, since electronics isn't my field of working anymore. I have studied electronics and went for a master in Engineering Physics so I'm not a newbie when it comes to hardware.
Just that I got this (stupid?) 30-year crisis and went for an MD instead.
My foremost field of working has been Unix, but I'm schooled in lower levels and had done both VHDL/Erlang projects and have been really fluent in asm. But that was a LONG time ago when Motorola 68xxx was the ruler (oh, the ****ing best cpu ever made code-wise).
The aversion and stop for asm-coding came with Inter and that was around the 486-time when you had to fiddle with the memory and stuff.
I have kept parts on my knowledge. Did a SOC for a big company with a linux that I pressed in on 128 kb of Rom but I'm not up to date with arm-asm and I can say that the last time I ever coded something was around 1996 since I started with design/capacity planning of hardware and management.
So the time has flown by. I'm a C-coder. Never coded a line of Java in my line. I'm also from Sweden and I don't know where you are from but if you are from USA we have quite some different rules here, especially when it comes to consumer law that can be used for us.
Ok. Enough **** about me.
I called Samsung today and this is a summary of the conversation I had.
I asked them about why the consumers had to use the Knox and how to pass it as a developer.
He could not answer it.
I asked if I trip the flag, why does it forbid me to sideload my own developed applications?
He could not answer it.
I asked how to remove it since as a consumer I had no use for it and this is something that I have not signed up for.
He said that I could send in my phone and have it reflashed to a lower version of the firmware.
I asked for specifications about it and said that knew it's a SE-linux containter (because it is).
That he could confirm.
I asked him what for specifications for the boot loader since it hinders me in my work.
He said that the only thing he could provide was a downgraded one (see above)
I said that I don't want a downgraded one since all use 4.3 and that is the future.
He could not provide that.
I said that maybe this is a deal that Samsung has done with NSA to provide them with information since I don't know what the phone sends out since I'm locked out of the kernel.
He said that he understood that he would feel the same sentiment.
I asked him if consider us who are developing on a low lever as valuable people the brings the phone forward.
He agreed.
I told him that I don't consider tripping the Know-flag to invalidate my warranty since it could be tripped in Kies (as reported here).
He agreed on that and told me that I could then contact the service for a reflash.
I told him that the option left then would be to crack the boot-loader as with the rooting.
He said yes.
Note that this is in Sweden. But the info in any case is interesting since he very well knew about this.
So the info I got. Yes. It's a Se-linux container and it is reflashable. Since it's reflashable we now know that it's not an e-Fuse and can leave that question. Since it's software it's crackable.
Seems high time for me to start to update myself on arm-asm. I got lazy with VHDL/Erlang
Also, this has not been the field of my quite messy life. Going from electronics to computers and Unix towards medicine.
I don't have a J-TAG. What do you guys use? What have you found so far?
Do we have access to the very beginning of the boot strapping?
With that I mean the first asm-lines that the phone do as a start. Is that hardware or is that software?
In this case. Could someone please provide me with that. As I said. I don't know Arm-asm yet, but I'll try to freshen myself. Asm is asm and the last thing I did with Arm was working with a Xlinix that had 2 cores in the die and then a VHDL-part. Really nifty. But that was 10 years ago.
My other problem is time, like you all, since I'm guessing you work full time.
But can someone update me or give me links to white-papers etc on how the phone starts? I guess there is quite little about it. It's not the glorious days where you could get papers on the clock-penalties and how revolutionary it was when you could do an instruction on both the edges of the clock-wave.
Sorry. I type a lot, but I really hate this and yes, people can say what they want. When Ericsson still made phones I had a special firmware that showed a LOT more then what a normal user would get and how chatty the phones are without us knowing. So the option of spreading the "Samsung has made a deal with NSA" WILL scare people whatever you think. I have done "activist" things before and you just have to present it as a theory and get to the point where the rumor will get viral.
I was truly amazed when my complaint against RIIA went viral and the "Govermental institution for internet privacy" got over 5000 complaints in one day. Don't know how that works in other countries but every document that you send here is official and need to be filed. We also have the reverse policy that seems to be a bit unique. Everything is open until it's classified as not public. Not otherwise as it seems in most countries.
Ok, off topic. You have to live with that if you want my help that I'm offering here.
Where are you know in the dissaembly of the boot-loader? SE-linux CAN be cracked but if t's scrabled with hardware it makes it a bit harder.
Ok, enough from me. Want me to start to dig with the Cortex-chip? I know that Qualcom are more then happy to provide white-papers on their chip. Just a matter of cost.
/Paul
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Surge1223 said:
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've seen that some use a modded build-chain for it. Is that just modded for speed or what is modded and where can you get it?
/Paul
Btw, got a i9506 today. Will be interesting. Also got An Note 3 and that has 4.3. Both are "pre-knoxed". Need a good burn-in software before i start to root them. Know any?
I have not noticed this behavior before but although they are connected to a Wifi they still search every 15 s or so for others. I don't recall if my old one did that? My HTC doesn't.
But anyone now how the phone boots-strap? It's too late after having a kernel.
Since it makes it before it loads it, it's not a real SE-kernel because then the custom ones would work without even touching Know, would they. And they trip the flag.
So the check must be done earlier? Besides, are the kernel sources enforcing MAC? I have not set up a build env yet so that's all the questions.
And any good J-Tag that you recommend?
Double post. Don't know how to remove...
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
absolon_se said:
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually they hotted up the phone quite much: http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5542&idPhone2=5371
Snapdragon 800, Adreno 330, Krait 400 @ 2,3 Mhz. Antutu places it next to Note 3 so it whops quite much.
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is interesting that they reflashed the stock firmware without negating your warrenty coverage for the tripped knox flag.
The question is were they supposed to do that or did they just screw up?
Thanks for sharing that!
Please follow the next thrilling episode in the Samsung-Zone... --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48077682&postcount=1350
And about the reflash. They have offered that to me too if I "happen" to trip the Knox. So e-fuse, no e-fuse. Duck. I don't know what to think anymore.
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
kalestew said:
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodluck! US Samsung told me to kick rocks. (hence why I am posting from a HTC one now.)
Sent from my One using Tapatalk
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a few quesitons to you sir.
did you wait for some minutes or did it take some hour?
was it repaired or motherboard simply replaced?
if they reflash the firmware it looks to me they have a "restoreable" that will be reversible if you flash it, just to ask why didn't you ask him what he did
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
Nemaides said:
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll answer the second part since the other poster already answered the first part.
Tripping knox is just setting a flag in the bootloader to true. Basically it tells Samsung that you did something "unauthorized" with your phone and voided your warranty with them. The thing is, tmobile doesn't care. They will replace/upgrade your phone without even looking. This has been confirmed many times here and other places. (don't hold me accountable...yada yada...)
..
fffft said:
But TMB, like most carriers doesn't care about Knox and it usually won't affect a warranty claim made with TMB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
..
fffft said:
TMB is a large company. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a troll/unwise, I am being completely serious. I am a cautious guy, and I wanted to know the full potential hazards of rooting with regards to their warranty policy. Of course on a person to person basis it should be easy to find a rep that will let a Knox tripped phone slide. However, in my personal opinion to pay the price of the warranty + full price of the phone + a fine in the unlikely worse case scenario that T-Mobile holds their policy to the letter seems expensive, especially when I know I will more than likely keep the phone for 2yrs+. My conclusion was to not buy their warranty, root, and be happy.
..
Just do a deferred trade in then when you jump. You skip one person looking at your phone and the people in the warehouse honestly couldn't care less.
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
3. If I do end up tripping Knox, can I un-trip it?
Nemaides said:
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure on the first one, so I'll let someone else answer.
The reason I chose to use the root method that tripped knox is I knew I was going to flash a custom rom later on. I would really recommend flashing the CM11 rom in the forum. If you wait a few days, most if not all the bugs will be ironed out and it'll be just as stable as stock.
As to what they mean, recoveries are what you use to flash and backup roms (they can be used for more, but this is what most people use) and kernels would just add MUCH more control over the inner workings of the phone (performance, screen calibration, button tweaks, etc).
..
Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
Nemaides said:
Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here are two threads concerning how to update without losing root and or tripping knox. i suggest you read as much as you can b efore doing anything http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2790292 http://forum.xda-developers.com/tmo.../experimental-how-to-root-triggering-t2845421
AleHanSolo said:
That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah if you call them and ask they will tell you that ... Its completely the opposite of what happens when you bring a knox tripped phone in for an upgrade or whatever .. Think about it ... If you have jump then you have premium handset protection which means you can throw your phone at a wall and take it to tmobile and get a new one . They would way rather get a knox tripped phone that they can resell without having to pay for parts or anything like that ...I have been using tmobile for years and they never ever check for know . Knox voids the manufacturers warranty not the handset protection. The sales people really don't know jack about anything . There only fix for anything is to do a factory reset . At the end of the day Tmobile wants you to have a device so they can give you a bill monthly . Its bad business to take away equipment that makes you money . Im saying this from personal experience and basic common sense . Plus I have a friend that worked at tmobile for some time . When I bought my GS5 I rooted it while I was still in the store waiting for them to finish my transaction and even showed the sales guy how towelroot works . Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
I like this!
fffft said:
Fair enough and I appreciate the elaboration. You described yourself as cautious which is fine. It's an individual choice whether to rely upon common practice or only trust what is official policy. You can decide what is best for yourself.
My perspective is that life is nothing if not learning to read between the lines. Have you ever read the back of a movie rental contract? Or car rental.. or rent almost anything contract? If you took the worst case, they have the right should you ever be late in returning the rented item to literally bust down your door, retrieve the rented item and not be held responsible for damage to your home. Not to mention collect hundreds of dollars in penalties for "being forced" to repatriate their overdue rental.
It would be naive to think that is common practice or likely to happen though. And that is the lesson of worst case scenarios. It's wise to know about them, but you also have to make a judgement as too how likely they are to occur. The alternative would be to refrain from doing many common place activities and live something like a hermit.
There is no reason that you or anyone else need agree though. That's just my take on it.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good: That right there was a lesson in life!
spirodave said:
Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not the old JUMP. That lets me upgrade twice per year without having to pay off 50%.