1. How can WM roms be distributed? Win2K and other OS cannot be redistributed in this fashion.
2. How might a 3rd party rom conflict with or omit information required by carrier (Cingular, etc.).
3. What are the basic pieces/components in flashing and how do they relate to each other.
A link to a page I perhaps haven't found will be fine, thanks.
I have upgraded my phone to new AT&T roms and am wondering how much new/needed functionality I'll get from a custom ROM. A link or info on most compelling features from new roms w/be nice.
I have burned ROMs for embedded devices (modbus), various ipaqs and routers (wrt54gl/dd-wrt) but need more info before proceeding with flash of my phone.
mike
mklein said:
1. How can WM roms be distributed? Win2K and other OS cannot be redistributed in this fashion.
2. How might a 3rd party rom conflict with or omit information required by carrier (Cingular, etc.).
3. What are the basic pieces/components in flashing and how do they relate to each other.
A link to a page I perhaps haven't found will be fine, thanks.
I have upgraded my phone to new AT&T roms and am wondering how much new/needed functionality I'll get from a custom ROM. A link or info on most compelling features from new roms w/be nice.
I have burned ROMs for embedded devices (modbus), various ipaqs and routers (wrt54gl/dd-wrt) but need more info before proceeding with flash of my phone.
mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. There is a thread running describing everyones opinion on this. Search for "legal ROM" in hermes section
2. read wiki - Hermes for Beginners, search for "ext rom".
3. read wiki
if you post another thread like this and someone says "rtfw", that means "read the f*king wiki". I would suggest you start there. Click on the link in my signature.
Good Luck, and make sure you do LOTS of reading before you start to flash.
1. Forum search on wm6 pirated (or find the thread in the WM6 subforum). Good dialog on that issue.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=307479
2. Check the WM6 forum for the Custel Cingular thread (for example) and search for wpbear cingular. Good info.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=307525
3. Read the wiki for Hermes - talks about the bits and pieces.
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Hermes
Sorry I don't have time to link all the threads for you atm.
edit: nm - grabbed the links - thanks for doing some reading before you asked.
Hi,
I've started to download all the listed tools from AOSP and from Chulri's XDA post but wanted to start the discussion on what steps would be needed to create a gingerbread rom for our Gen8 devices.
My initial questions:
1- Would the driver's source from Archos that are currently written for 2.2 be compatible with 2.3? Can they reasonably be updated?
2- Aren't there two approaches we could use? Update the kernel to be compatible with 2.3 or back port 2.3 to be compatible with our existing kernels?
I apologize for probably sounding ignorant but this is all learning for me and any help is greatly appreciated. If nothing else, this thread would be a great place to discus the steps it would take to develop a Gingerbread rom from a high level stand point.
Mr. Clown - I'd appreciate leaving this in the devel forum since it is specific to devel for 2.3 and gen8 and not just an "is it possible" thread.
Thanks!!
-Nate
double post
sry
do you have kernel dev experience for linux/unix?
if yes concentrate on cm a lot of development has been done.
there are phones who have almost identical components ( well the usb attached screen is a problem)
the recovery will be hell of a problem too..
if you never worked with that stuff (at least i hope you are a c crack otherwise look for other stuff to learn c .kernel development is one of the hardest stuff you can pick in softwaredev.) look for another project where somebody could guide you and teach you stuff the first project will be learning the second could be a very specific project like this where you have to work on your own
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
gbohm said:
do you have kernel dev experience for linux/unix?
if yes concentrate on cm a lot of development has been done.
there are phones who have almost identical components ( well the usb attached screen is a problem)
the recovery will be hell of a problem too..
if you never worked with that stuff (at least i hope you are a c crack otherwise look for other stuff to learn c .kernel development is one of the hardest stuff you can pick in softwaredev.) look for another project where somebody could guide you and teach you stuff the first project will be learning the second could be a very specific project like this where you have to work on your own
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thanks for the reply. I've been reading just about all of Chulri's posts in his thread and I know $aur0n would answer specific questions if I asked. Other than that, I took a few C++ classes a few years ago but never took the OS/Hardware level classes. I stopped at advanced/e intermediate algorithms and data structures. Either way, I was hoping to start a discussion with this thread about steps that would be needed to happen to build a gingerbread ROM.
But if anyone wants to read along with me about kernel devel then you can start here with me - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=11261995
Archos's git - http://gitorious.org/archos/
Chulri's How to - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=891056
Chulri's tool and fantastic following discussion (still trying to comprehend all of it) - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10033305#post10033305
Really Thank you for start this thread!
And when you've developed a gingerbread rom, i think the best would be if you work together with $aur0n Do think like i do?
And:
If you need a tester or somebody to do some little things, i'll do it
(At the moment i report some bugs at solune/sauron and test the bootscreens)
I want to help you with that cool project
xnatex21 said:
Hi, thanks for the reply. I've been reading just about all of Chulri's posts in his thread and I know $aur0n would answer specific questions if I asked. Other than that, I took a few C++ classes a few years ago but never took the OS/Hardware level classes. I stopped at advanced/e intermediate algorithms and data structures. Either way, I was hoping to start a discussion with this thread about steps that would be needed to happen to build a gingerbread ROM.
But if anyone wants to read along with me about kernel devel then you can start here with me - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=11261995
Archos's git - http://gitorious.org/archos/
Chulri's How to - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=891056
Chulri's tool and fantastic following discussion (still trying to comprehend all of it) - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10033305#post10033305
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am sorry but you will not be able to develop a kernel with some classes you took i am a dev so i am quite avit with it i come from a completly different backgroud (windows software) but i have a unbelievable hard time to find a starting point with cm7 for sgs although there other developers around
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
That's understandable. If development is going to be tough or near impossible, I'd hope to try before I give up. Right now I'm learning about kernel development but would love it if someone could help me focus.
Is the touch display driver the hardest part to upgrade? What changed in 2.3 that makes updating the driver so difficult? Or would it be better to "back port" 2.3 to be compatible with archos's driver?
Sent from my GSBv1.4-ERIS using XDA App
xnatex21 said:
1)Is the touch display driver the hardest part to upgrade?
2)What changed in 2.3 that makes updating the driver so difficult?
3)Would it be better to "back port" 2.3 to be compatible with archos's driver?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) I would say one of the hardest parts
2) I think the archos drivers aren't compatible, so ...
3) ... this would be better because then you've better drivers support (for each hardware)
Again:
I think this project is assomeI'd love to be a helper/tester.
Information:
PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. Your question has already been answered. Use Google or the search function above. The Google link is a template for quicker searching of this site.
NC=Nook Color
stable=latest stable rom from Cyanogemmod. Your go-to ROM if you just want a good daily driver and do not want to worry about things not working.
nightly=the latest and greatest. Please only try if you are able to troubleshoot, understand basic computer concepts, are not a N00b.
N00b=A word I hate and you should never use. Please do not say I'm a noob that needs help. Simply ask can I please have some help.
rooting=This is NOT FLASHING A ROM. It is the act of taking a stock rom and installing super user privileges. Installing CM7 is NOT ROOTING.
CM=Short for Cyanogenmod. The amazing team of developers that make what you're reading and wanting to do possible. Thank them often and donate any way you can (in help, money, coding).
OP=original post (post #1 in a thread)
OC=overclocked
HC=Honeycomb
AOSP=Android Open Source Project
SD=SecureDigital storage (that little card that goes in your NC)
eMMC=internal memory (the "hard drive" of your NC)
ROM=the "operating system"
kernel="Translater" between your ROM and the NC hardware. You need the overclocked one to overclock. Flash after a rom is flashed. THERE WILL BE NO OC KERNEL FOR THE DEFAULT CM ROM, EVER. OVERVOLTAGES OF THE KERNEL WILL NOT BE INCLUDED.
FC=force close, or when an app crashes
SOD=sleep of death. When the NC will not wake from sleep. You need to hard shutdown, then reboot to fix this.
PBD=premature battery death. When the battery shows 3x-20x% battery life left, but shuts down without warning. This has been linked to people who updated their bootloader without first flashing to 1.2 stock and letting the battery drain all the way down. This is being looked into. You need to plug in your NC if you experience this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kernel Issues with CM7 stable:
Flashing OC kernel results in "ANDROID" hanging/bootloops on boot. You need to change the updater-script to ext4, or use this kernel. Here is information about the filesystems used.
Which OC kernel can I use with stable? The latest test (4/24) can be used. Both need the updater-script to be changed to ext4. Look here for information.
Please ensure you are running the latest Rom Manager and Clockwork Recovery. This will also fix problems with the kernel not loading and being stuck at "_ANDROID". Open market, download Rom Manager, install it, then flash the latest recovery for the NOOK COLOR (not NOOK COLOR (OLD), if that is still there). Now update your kernel/ROM.
I want to install an OC kernel to my SD rom! Head over here, Racks has all the kernels you could want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 Nightly Issues:
What overclocked kernel do I need?? The latest from dalingrin should do. Please read and understand (and use the search function) if you have questions/concerns. You're looking for the 5/23 .32 based kernel. Some may have issues with wifi, however.
I want to run this off of my SD card, not internal (eMMC) memory. Look at Racks for the answer.
Is it worth my time to upgrade to the latest nightly? You can check here. Changes specific to encore (the code name for the nook color) will have a slightly darker background, and if that is an issue you've had, it may be fixed now!
I want to run netflix on the NC! Download the netflix app and follow these instructions to have it run. If you don't know what it's asking to do, ask here!
I need the new uboot everyone is talking about! Get it here.
I want to try out USB Host support (VERY EXPERIMENTAL). Look here, read EVERYTHING, understand what you are doing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Common Misconceptions/Questions:
Removing system apps (phone, mms, etc) will increase battery life! It has no effect. Stop it.
Using a task manager is a good idea in Android! That's not a good idea at all!
What do all these governors do/mean in setcpu/cyanogenmod performance settings? Look here for a great explanation. Also, DO NOT use setcpu PROFILES in CM7.
How do I install all these things? Check out eyeballer's awesome thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
STOCK: NOOTER Distros:
For 1.0.1 ONLY. Look here.
For 1.1 ONLY. Look here.
For 1.2 ONLY. Look Here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honeycomb (Android 3.0):
Latest SDK (NOT AOSP) based ROM: Look here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the OP's that saved me from retyping all the answers (Nemith, luciferii, and dalingrin, verygreen, and fattire (and others) that have made CM into the amazing piece of work it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reserved for future awesomeness.
This is done with great intentions, but it is not going to work.
We know for a fact, that exactly those people who have questions, and post them in all the worst places, don't read any of the thread titles.
They don't read the information threads, they don't see "DON'T POST IN THIS DEVELOPMENT FORUM" warnings, and so on.
ALSO, this thread is just one more thing to rapidly become outdated - like the sticky thread that has months-old information.
All you have to do is go to a movie, go to sleep, or maybe even vacation, and immediately this has no longer correct information.
And it is one more thread pushing other development threads off the front page.
Fine idea, but it won't work in the real world.
ADude said:
This is done with great intentions, but it is not going to work.
We know for a fact, that exactly those people who have questions, and post them in all the worst places, don't read any of the thread titles.
They don't read the information threads, they don't see "DON'T POST IN THIS DEVELOPMENT FORUM" warnings, and so on.
ALSO, this thread is just one more thing to rapidly become outdated - like the sticky thread that has months-old information.
All you have to do is go to a movie, go to sleep, or maybe even vacation, and immediately this has no longer correct information.
And it is one more thread pushing other development threads off the front page.
Fine idea, but it won't work in the real world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback.
I'm going to keep it updated as long as I can. Since I'm on here pretty consistantly. When I can't afford the time to do so, I will pull the information.
I know no one reads these types of threads, but I just had 200+ views in under and hour, so hopefully this solved a few issues without added noise to the real threads.
I think what you're looking to do is make a FAQ or guide or something. Maybe a better place where people can all collaborate (and correct any errors you have made, and I see a few minor ones) would be set up a FAQ page on nookdevs.com or something..
Also, it may be a better idea to organize the bits of information by category so people can quickly find it. Use as few words as you can in the first sentence so that people scanning for their issue don't have to read the whole thing...
Finally, it's "dalingrin"
Geez...if I had a dollar everytime I messed up dalingrin's spelling... :S
Yeah, I figured there would be a few half-truths in there from me not totally understanding what is going on as well as you guys, but feel free to PM or post on here where I can change stuff. I'll try to simplify it as well.
I just read over the OP and holy SH*T that is confusing, no offense. Here are some tips for writing helpful FAQs/Guides:
Space it out. Everything all clumped together in one block of text helps no one. Space it out (ie like this list).
Add titles or headers in between sections (this goes along with the first point) to clearly guide people to where they need to read. People want to read what is pertinent to them; not read an entire block of text and then try to figure out which applies to their case. Help others help themselves.
For all this CM7-specific information, add version numbers in front of bullet points (for the same reason as the previous point).
Ironically, none of your "Common Questions" are actually Questions. Questions end with a "?". What you have are "Common Answers". Insert questions before them so people can quickly decide if reading that particular bullet point is pertinent to them.
[5/10] Since this is all changing at such a ridiculously fast pace, add dates in front of bullet points where necessary (like at the beginning of this bullet point), so people can clearly tell what is outdated and what is new. I really wish Dal etc did this for his threads since a TON of the info in his threads are ridiculously out of date.
Learn to use the [ list ] and [ * ] tags -- quote post #10 of this thread to see what I mean.
Just some friendly tips for writing helpful guides
Also the particular answers in the OP are very specific to the Alpha Test Builds of the last few days.
Those builds, like dalingrin's, are accompanied by FAQs right where the download link is.
The problem is that people talk about these things elsewhere, and even worse, put up mirror links without the FAQ - which just happened with the new Beta .32 build - one guy complained about not being able to download it because everyone else was hitting the same site at the same moment - so a mirror was posted later in the thread without dalingrin's FAQ.
Someone made a wise comment recently that people who cannot find the already posted detailed information, should not be installing these test builds in the first place, as they don't know what they are doing (and they never report enough detail in their bug feedback - such as exactly which build they have installed).
ADude said:
This is done with great intentions, but it is not going to work.
We know for a fact, that exactly those people who have questions, and post them in all the worst places, don't read any of the thread titles.
They don't read the information threads, they don't see "DON'T POST IN THIS DEVELOPMENT FORUM" warnings, and so on.
ALSO, this thread is just one more thing to rapidly become outdated - like the sticky thread that has months-old information.
All you have to do is go to a movie, go to sleep, or maybe even vacation, and immediately this has no longer correct information.
And it is one more thread pushing other development threads off the front page.
Fine idea, but it won't work in the real world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Geez, Dude, you're harshing my mellow. At least Ace is trying to be helpful and doing something positive. Your negative attitude isn't helping anyone.
I for one, would like to say "thank you" to Ace. The OP couldn't have come at a better time as I was a little confused about the new 7.1.0 ROM and "2.6.32" thread was not helping at all. Keep up the good work!
Personally, I would love to see something like this:
7.0.2
Date the below info was updated: 5/10
General Info:
Benefits of This Build:
Common Issues:
How to Flash / Download Location:
Supported Kernels / Download Locations:
7.0.3
Date the below info was updated: 5/10
General Info:
Benefits of This Build:
Common Issues:
How to Flash / Download Location:
Supported Kernels / Download Locations:
Nightly ##
Date the below info was updated: 5/10
General Info:
Benefits of This Build:
Common Issues:
How to Flash / Download Location:
Supported Kernels / Download Locations:
Nightly ##
Date the below info was updated: 5/10
General Info:
Benefits of This Build:
Common Issues:
How to Flash / Download Location:
Supported Kernels / Download Locations:
Other Builds etc
Date the below info was updated: 5/10
General Info:
Benefits of This Build:
Common Issues:
How to Flash / Download Location:
Supported Kernels / Download Locations:
Miscellaneous Questions Not Specific to a Particular Build
[5/10] How do I do X?
[5/10] Where do I get Gapps?
[5/10] Additional Questions
[5/10] Additional Questions
Unfortunately, I have a very limited understanding of all the stuff that is currently happening day-to-day. I run only stables (currently on 7.0.2 flashed weeks ago) for fear that I might mess up my NC because I may have missed a key detail in post #1238 in thread X, Y, or Z. A centralized thread with all this information run by someone dedicated to updating it daily would be a great help to everyone. People like Dal and other developers are busy developing, and rightfully so
Wow...
I dig it!
I'll see if I can start up something that in depth in a bit here...
When updating from 7.0.2 to 7.0.3 are you suppose to use rom manager? Or download the file from PC then transfer it over to SD and use recovery mode to update? Also your suppose to use titanium to back up apps and data only correct just incase. But as far as updating wipe cache and dalvik.... I just want to make sure I'm doing it correct that way all my apps stay. Fyi I'm running cm7 of internal
Actually, it occurred to me that a FAQ thread like this should be in "Nook General Forum", but that your OP, with all the information about nightlies and so on, should be posted to the end of the CM7 User General Discussion thread in this Forum.
That thread is where all these questions come up.
jzibit17 said:
When updating from 7.0.2 to 7.0.3 are you suppose to use rom manager? Or download the file from PC then transfer it over to SD and use recovery mode to update? Also your suppose to use titanium to back up apps and data only correct just incase. But as far as updating wipe cache and dalvik.... I just want to make sure I'm doing it correct that way all my apps stay. Fyi I'm running cm7 of internal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I find that ROM manager is another program that can have bugs, so I don't use it.
I just put the file on my SD card wirelessly using "Samba Filesharing App" (free in the market), and then use Clockworkmod Recovery to install it.
It looks like with many recent changes, it helps to first do "wipe system" and "wipe cache" before installing the new file.
Since our personal stuff is in "data", then I do not wipe that.
I also find that the "nandroid backup" on Clockworkmod Recovery is more reliable than Titanium Backup (same comment as for ROM manager). If you do a complete nandroid backup and then a complete recovery, it brings back everything - all the partitions - so it is a great thing to do when everything is working nicely.
I can't seem to find the latest version of Gapps that you list. I checked throughout the site listed and only see for GB up to 03072011. Did it get deleted?
psychoace said:
I can't seem to find the latest version of Gapps that you list. I checked throughout the site listed and only see for GB up to 03072011. Did it get deleted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like it was just deleted. I'll keep tabs on it.
fattire said:
I think what you're looking to do is make a FAQ or guide or something. Maybe a better place where people can all collaborate (and correct any errors you have made, and I see a few minor ones) would be set up a FAQ page on nookdevs.com or something..
Also, it may be a better idea to organize the bits of information by category so people can quickly find it. Use as few words as you can in the first sentence so that people scanning for their issue don't have to read the whole thing...
Finally, it's "dalingrin"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Forums for information dissemination are just ****ty beyond belief. We, the NC/xda community, need to either start taking the NC wiki seriously, or fenagle the owners of this fine establishment into upgrading to something more collaborative. No offense, but the only thing worse than forums for a large community is an email mailing list. shudder ... lol
Seriously. Forums are areas for discussion. Not Q&A.
ace7196 said:
Looks like it was just deleted. I'll keep tabs on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can google the file name to find it hosted elsewhere
I bought my Nook last week and since then i've been trying to learn how to tinker with custom roms and kernels but this subforum is total chaotic and newbie-unfriendly.
We (new users) need a wiki to get some basic knowledge about modding.9
All that stuff is scattered and buried in subtopics, I have took a lot of time just to install CWM on eMMC.
Now I'm running 1.2 rooted on emmc and CM7 nightly on SD, I couldn't get dual boot working on EMMC nor SD.
hirano said:
I bought my Nook last week and since then i've been trying to learn how to tinker with custom roms and kernels but this subforum is total chaotic and newbie-unfriendly.
We (new users) need a wiki to get some basic knowledge about modding.9
All that stuff is scattered and buried in subtopics, I have took a lot of time just to install CWM on eMMC.
Now I'm running 1.2 rooted on emmc and CM7 nightly on SD, I couldn't get dual boot working on EMMC nor SD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a Wiki stickied to the 1st page of the general section of the Nook Color Forum......http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=890549.
Ace created this thread in response to a rash of redundant questions.
OK, so here's the thing... I'm kind of new in the Android acknowledgement, so I hope that here will be the place where I will get my answers. So here's what I know...
At first I didn't know that Android was Java-based, using a modified Linux kernel which we all know it's C-based (entirely). After a while, I found that there were different firmwares (ROMs) from the original ones, called Stock ones and also different kernels. After reading lots of info about how things actually are, I've decided to root my stock and then I moved to a custom MIUI for my SGSII with a JB implementation. At first it was great, but I had some issues which left me disappointed. Then I moved on to the official MIUI (China - English one). Things got better after I got used to it. The major bugs disappeared, only small ones left and a few crashes, but in time most of them got fixed. Later it crossed my mind, "Why are there so many different kernels and which is the best one for my phone or ROM to be precise?" Well this is where I need your help. I've read some topics that siyah kernel is probably the best kernel, which fits the MIUI rom. The pointing of concrete kernels isn't the kind of answer I was actually searching for. To be honest, I need answers to questions like:
How many kernels are there ?
Which ones are safe ? (I've read that there are badly written ones, so yeah, it needs to be asked)
Statistically, which is the best kernel and is it for the MIUI rom ?
How can I tell that it's suitable for the MIUI rom ? (Since I've read that not all are)
What are the risks of changing the kernel?
How can you test the kernel's behaviour, an app which makes statistics in time or some other methods ?
Believe me, as annoying this topic might seem, lots of us (the newbie users) are burning up the google servers, just to find these answers. I'm really hoping for a reply spam with answers (if possible , spare the trolling ones). Thanks for reading my annoying topic, anyway
Since most of the source is available, basically anyone can build their own kernel at home, so it is hard to tell how many kernels are there.
what isn`t available as open source are most of the OEM-specific drivers. Samsung, for one, doesn`t make most of the drivers' source publicly available, so kernel developers have to make a binary kernel around the binary drivers and literally pray their work well together.
Siyah is safe, but I prefer the stock kernel (I like the stock ROM... go figure). The stock kernel is the only one that is sure to work properly with all the hardware in the phone, because it is the only built from sources for the drivers as well (read my previous paragraph).
Which ones are safe (other than stock and Siyah): you gotta try them for yourself, read other users' remarks and feedbacks, and so on.
Risks:
Very low. As long as the bootloader is good, if the kernel totally malfunctions, just reboot in download mode and flash something else.
Some app may work very well in one kernel and bomb in another. It may crash in some kernels. It is very empyrical.
The problem is that custom kernels don't undergo the same type of quality testing as stock kernels. Developers have very limited resources to do that, and some developers are more interested in having a short time-to-market than a quality product (well, many large corporations act like that as well). At the end of the day we - power users - are the beta testing and quality assurance teams for the kernel developers.
Before we begin: this thread is not about asking for users to comment which is the best rom or which is the worst! I am just asking for suggestions of which roms should I test in order to find out answer on my own.
So, I have had various roms, like neatrom, cm11, omnirom, whatever. The main problem with unofficial roms is instability. So, I am asking for your suggestions which roms should I test out in order to find a rom which is:
stable (very important since most of the roms are very unstable)
as new as possible (talking about android version, not rom's release date)
~good battery life (at least sort of good)
still has support (new releases, updates, etc)
Any ideas?
Recently I have tried android 4.2.2 CM 10.2 stable. It's far from stable: phone sometimes randomly freezed...
Also, tried various kitkat roms. Its obvious why I am no longer using them...
Neatrom / 4.1.2 is extremely laggy (comparing to, for example 4.2.2). So I sort of hate it too.
Rom suggestion threads are also forbidden.
Mod Edit
Word it in any way you like,it is still not allowed.
Please test these things for yourself.
This is the only way you will get an unbiased opinion,and then, you can decide for yourself if it meets YOUR needs.
Thread Closed
malybru
Forum Moderator