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If you are using one of the Over-Clocked Undervolted Kernels please uninstall set-cpu and observe your battery life for 3 days and compare it to what you got when you used set-cpu. Then report as to if it is better, worse, or the same.
Just compare to what how long your battery lasts with your normal usage. Please do not give replies like "I only used 30% in two days with normal use."
Just reply with either better, worse, or same. Because usage is relative and that is not the purpose of this.
I think that set-cpu is interfering with the built in govenor and its ability to scale the freq of the phone. I think that it is staying on what-ever freq you set in set-cpu and scaling properly and thus reducing the battery life, and making the undervolting useless.
IF YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE BETTER BATTERY LIFE WITHOUT SETCPU, THEN GET LOGS WHILE IT IS RUNNING AND SEND THEM TO THE DEV.
I have also noticed lag on the home screen with setcpu, I started using Overclock Widget to detect the values and to diff freq screen off 245-576 and put the phone on sleep while charging so will stay cool. Battery life has been great so far! I'm using 2.6.33.4 [email protected] #1 about to upgrade to his newest 2.6.34...I think SetCpu has flaws!
Will let you know my results.
this thread may be of some help. im currently trying pershoots 5.12vfp release without setcpu at all.
i do, however, remember getting 37 hours with moderate use with setcpu and profiles set, but i cant remember which kernal it was exactly. i think it may have been IRs 4.29 release..
Just uninstalled SetCPU and I'm running Pershoot's newest 2.6.33.4 925 Kernel. I will report back my findings in a couple of days...
Been curious about this for a while, but does the Nexus automatically throttle CPU speed by itself when SetCPU is not installed?
paulk_ said:
Been curious about this for a while, but does the Nexus automatically throttle CPU speed by itself when SetCPU is not installed?
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Nope, incredible and onwards only.
Did this Quite a bit ago... ran with and without for over a week and i have better battery life without setcpu
When you don't have setcpu, you're not running at 1113ghz..
persiansown said:
When you don't have setcpu, you're not running at 1113ghz..
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Perhaps...However, Linpack is proportional (I think) to the device's performance. My little experiment was testing different frequency kernels and measuring that against Linpacl
998: 7.4
1.13: 8.2
1.19: 8.9
So it would appear that performance increases with each kernel which wouldn't be the case if SetCPU was required.
I have some reasons to believe that SetCPU would interfere with the actual design of the Nexus One. I mean after all, i'm sure it was programmed to manage itself. So why have another app that does the same thing, twice? Just a thought, but for one thing, my phone is definitely cooler when charging compared to having SetCPU with profiles.
dogiedogie said:
Nope, incredible and onwards only.
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You mean that the Incredible features CPU throttling?
jlevy73 said:
Perhaps...However, Linpack is proportional (I think) to the device's performance. My little experiment was testing different frequency kernels and measuring that against Linpacl
998: 7.4
1.13: 8.2
1.19: 8.9
So it would appear that performance increases with each kernel which wouldn't be the case if SetCPU was required.
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Click to collapse
There are dozens of potential optimizations that can be done to improve performance without touching the cpu speed. Different kernels, especially if they're from different people, will have different flags set in the build and so will perform differently even at the same clock speed.
Casao said:
There are dozens of potential optimizations that can be done to improve performance without touching the cpu speed. Different kernels, especially if they're from different people, will have different flags set in the build and so will perform differently even at the same clock speed.
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I completely agree however all the kernels I use are from the same person and the optimizations at the different clocks speeds are identical. Therefore the spread in my linpack scores indicate that setcpu is not required. At least, that's my theory
this and other threads have made me question why we need setcpu anyways. I have it running and its great but can't we just integrate what setcpu is doing from the get go instead of having an external app running a separate process?'seems a little inefficient to me. The reason I say this is that I noticed most people are using the same settings for set cpu.
anyways, I dunno how relevant all this is since froyo's just around the corner and that may alleviate some problems but bring more problems
Yeah, start bashing my app, knowing I was the one who came up with the ideas behind the 1113MHz/uv hack in the first place (in fact, I came up with the 21MB hack as well, so prominently displayed in the OP's kernel thread title). Thanks, nexus one community.
I can explain that setcpu does not run any code in the background if your profiles are disabled, I can explain how cpufreq works, I can explain what lengths I went to to optimize the profiles, and I can explain that the profiles are very passive (except sometimes on the Droid, but there's an option for tweaking that) but I probably won't bother. Grab 1.5.3a and use it, or don't use it. I don't care either way.
I think that set-cpu is interfering with the built in govenor and its ability to scale the freq of the phone. I think that it is staying on what-ever freq you set in set-cpu and scaling properly and thus reducing the battery life, and making the undervolting useless.
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You obviously do not know how cpufreq works. Setcpu does not touch the values after it sets a profile. Profiles actually run code only when it receives broadcast intents. It sets the max and min bounds and the governor if necessary within a fraction of a second. The service is completely idle otherwise. It can't "interfere with the built in governor." Okay, then. What is your big theory? What exactly is setcpu doing wrong?
SetCPU is advantageous because it allows you to tweak speeds on the fly and based on certain conditions. You can have solely kernel based overclocking and undervolting, sure, and that is perfectly fine. SetCPU is a convenient tool for controlling that without having to compile and flash a new kernel. If you do not like profiles, do not use them. They were only introduced in 1.3.0 But don't uninstall SetCPU because it does nothing with profiles disabled.
dogiedogie said:
Nope, incredible and onwards only.
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HTC implements a rather awkward driver in nearly all of their Sense UI devices (and I think the Magic 32A) that throttles based on certain conditions. I am not entirely sure how it works, as I have not looked into the specifics, but it seems to max out the CPU under some conditions.
chowlala said:
I have some reasons to believe that SetCPU would interfere with the actual design of the Nexus One. I mean after all, i'm sure it was programmed to manage itself. So why have another app that does the same thing, twice? Just a thought, but for one thing, my phone is definitely cooler when charging compared to having SetCPU with profiles.
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I am 100% sure this is placebo effect. Setcpu can't make your phone run hotter just because it's there. If you had a charging profile set for 1113/1113, sure, but that is not setcpu itself. Linux does not control the CPU scaling any further than what ondemand does - there is nothing preventing the CPU from going up to your max during sleep (or rather, when the screen is off), for example, or when your battery is low.
Oh, and using the active widget is a bad idea if you care about battery life. I tried to optimize it as much as possible, but realize that it's updating a lot more things than other apps are (the frequency, the bounds, and two temperature readings) at a relatively fast interval. The home screen does pause a bit while it is updating. That is a fact of life. Longer intervals are essentially useless because the update interval for cpufreq itself is on the order of thousands of microseconds. The current appwidget refreshes if the screen is on, regardless of whether it's visible or not (there is currently no way to tell if it is visible). A live wallpaper would be a much better idea than a constantly updating appwidget, and I'll look into that.
Let me explain this bit better. Cpufreq will scale your CPU between the max and min values automatically. Once the CPU load hits the "up threshold," it takes your CPU frequency from the min to the max, then gradually eases it down. SetCPU lets you easily change the max and min values on the fly. If you want, it can also prevent the system from scaling the CPU up that high during times you don't want it to (with profiles, of course). It does not and cannot interfere with the actual governor.
Well there you have it, straight from the source
TL;DR - setCPU doesn't run code in background unless you use profiles, it doesn't make your phone hotter unless you use a 1113/1113 profile, & if you value battery life don't use setCPU Active widget.
SetCPU
coolbho3000 said:
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Props dude. Keep up the good work.
To be honest I'm a user, donator and supporter of SetCPU. I've never had cause to complain.
Not bashing your app dude, in fact I have the paid version. I am only wondering why people are noticing better battery life without it than with it. Want to see if it really is setcpu or something else. To do that something has to be isolated.
And I believe that if the freq are set in the kernel then the phone will scale up an down on its own.
coolbho3000 said:
Yeah, start bashing my app, knowing I was the one who came up with the ideas behind the 1113MHz/uv hack in the first place (in fact, I came up with the 21MB hack as well, so prominently displayed in the OP's kernel thread title). Thanks, nexus one community.
I can explain that setcpu does not run any code in the background if your profiles are disabled, I can explain how cpufreq works, I can explain what lengths I went to to optimize the profiles, and I can explain that the profiles are very passive (except sometimes on the Droid, but there's an option for tweaking that) but I probably won't bother. Grab 1.5.3a and use it, or don't use it. I don't care either way.
You obviously do not know how cpufreq works. Setcpu does not touch the values after it sets a profile. Profiles actually run code only when it receives broadcast intents. It sets the max and min bounds and the governor if necessary within a fraction of a second. The service is completely idle otherwise. It can't "interfere with the built in governor." Okay, then. What is your big theory? What exactly is setcpu doing wrong?
SetCPU is advantageous because it allows you to tweak speeds on the fly and based on certain conditions. You can have solely kernel based overclocking and undervolting, sure, and that is perfectly fine. SetCPU is a convenient tool for controlling that without having to compile and flash a new kernel. If you do not like profiles, do not use them. They were only introduced in 1.3.0 But don't uninstall SetCPU because it does nothing with profiles disabled.
HTC implements a rather awkward driver in nearly all of their Sense UI devices (and I think the Magic 32A) that throttles based on certain conditions. I am not entirely sure how it works, as I have not looked into the specifics, but it seems to max out the CPU under some conditions.
I am 100% sure this is placebo effect. Setcpu can't make your phone run hotter just because it's there. If you had a charging profile set for 1113/1113, sure, but that is not setcpu itself. Linux does not control the CPU scaling any further than what ondemand does - there is nothing preventing the CPU from going up to your max during sleep (or rather, when the screen is off), for example, or when your battery is low.
Oh, and using the active widget is a bad idea if you care about battery life. I tried to optimize it as much as possible, but realize that it's updating a lot more things than other apps are (the frequency, the bounds, and two temperature readings) at a relatively fast interval. The home screen does pause a bit while it is updating. That is a fact of life. Longer intervals are essentially useless because the update interval for cpufreq itself is on the order of thousands of microseconds. The current appwidget refreshes if the screen is on, regardless of whether it's visible or not (there is currently no way to tell if it is visible). A live wallpaper would be a much better idea than a constantly updating appwidget, and I'll look into that.
Let me explain this bit better. Cpufreq will scale your CPU between the max and min values automatically. Once the CPU load hits the "up threshold," it takes your CPU frequency from the min to the max, then gradually eases it down. SetCPU lets you easily change the max and min values on the fly. If you want, it can also prevent the system from scaling the CPU up that high during times you don't want it to (with profiles, of course). It does not and cannot interfere with the actual governor.
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Click to collapse
I too am a fan of setcpu, and over the last week I did get curious due to this this thread. I found my battery ran down quite significantly faster without setcpu, maybe because I didn't have my sleep profile of lowest freq min/max, or my battery profile of max 756, or my low battery profiles scaling down my cpu max. Either way, stop bashing the app, it's awesome, and if you had concerns, take them to the dev rather than start a witch hunt in the forums trying to make a posse.
People that report better battery, may not have had setcpu set up correctly in the first place. A friend of mine at work installed it, ran for a day and uninstalled it, citing it didn't do anything and infact drained his battery. He had the widget running, and had upped the minimum cpu freq to 500 and something, max to the 1.13ghx. He didn't run profiles. But as such, he wasn't letting his phone scale down to the lowest freq when it wanted to, and had the widget drain. I got him to set t up as I have mine, and he was blown away with the change.
"My car wont go over 20km/h"
"Are you putting your foot on the accelerator?"
"Whats an accelerator?"
Things have to be used correctly to get the best out of them, and unless someone saying it's far worse than without actually comes in and puts up their values they have it set to, we have no idea why they are having the fault. My experience (I have worked tech call centres for years) is that 99/100 issues people experience are due to not using things as they are set out to be, or just have no idea how to do what they are trying to do. My work mates thing was that he thought all apps would go faster if he increased the minimum freq, so therefore use less battery because the processes are completed faster. In a way it's logical, but the result is that even when nothings running the cpu wont fall below that value, so the battery drained much faster than he expected.
root rookie here.. First device I ever rooted, really I'm new to cell phones in general.
I flashed this rom adryn bamf 4.1 (non remix) and its working good and all
But I noticed on the smartass setting, which underclocks, that after about an hour or so of playing a game/tv whatever my batter will be around 42C, it seems very hot compared to around 32C before I put this rom and kernal on
Two questions
Am I doing something wrong or is this normal
And, How hot can a battery get before it becomes something to worry about?
Thanks =P
Yea in the 40's is way high. Remember, heat is inefficiency (wasted energy). After playing a game for an hour you will probably be in the mid 30's C. I would recommend trying a different kernel and wiping devlik cache. Also, see what apps and services are running in the background and increase the length of time between syncs. Also, smartass scaling did great on my incredible but I have found that it is not perfected yet for the tb. I would suggest ondemand unless the dev or OP specifically says that smartass is the way to go. As far as heat and battery I find that adrenylyn's kernels do the best. As far as performance, drod and ziggy's seem to fly. Isoman or whatever seems to also be a favorite but I personally didn't have great results. It is important to not supremely OC or UC. I would simply stray away from UC in general. For a daily driver, I would stay under 1.5 Ghz, and honestly 1.2 seems to work best for me. Hope this helps.
thanks for taking the time to respond
So why no under clocking? I assumed it would help battery life but not so much?
Just set to 1200 for both min/max? Or on demand scaling up to 1200?
I prob had a bunch of apps running in the backround, i'm new to droid.. came from an old feature phone
42C is definately too hot! As the previous poster suggested, try a different kernel. There also could be a remote chance your battery is defective.
I really feel like it is more likely that something I am doing is impacting it
I had the phone stock for a week and no problems (same usage)
Rooted but stock rom for a week and no problems
Put this kernal on (which everyone says is really good) and this rom and it was getting hot.. So far it is good around 38-39 (still too high?) with 1200mhz on demand min 256mhz
I flashed 2 different kernals and both times after less than 45 mins of browsing forums and playing home run baseball my battery gets to 42C. Could this be caused by the rom? I wonder if I damaged my battery or phone at this point
Mine got up to 113 degrees over the weekend. It felt like I was cooking my phone off and getting ready to throw it like I do in black ops.
I realized my phone was trying to search for a 4g signal when there was none. I entered #*#*#4636#*#*# on my dial pad to turn it off. It reduced my battery heat by 5 degrees. I should point out I was out in the field. Aka in the middle of nowhere where.
Sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with VirusROM AirborneTB. Xda premium
I'm @ 53.4C right now and it doesn't seem to be charging, lol.
raider3bravo said:
Mine got up to 113 degrees over the weekend. It felt like I was cooking my phone off and getting ready to throw it like I do in black ops.
I realized my phone was trying to search for a 4g signal when there was none. I entered #*#*#4636#*#*# on my dial pad to turn it off. It reduced my battery heat by 5 degrees. I should point out I was out in the field. Aka in the middle of nowhere where.
Sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with VirusROM AirborneTB. Xda premium
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Sorry but to fly off topic what do you do? I'm generally out in the boondocks when I'm on wellsite...
Sent from my Thunderbolt running CM7...
42c isn't anything out of the ordinary, or outside operational parameters for a battery of that type. Not by a long shot, actually. That battery can safely operate at 59c, but the phone won't charge it north of about 47c due to the fact charging will increase the temperature even more.
As for the governors:
The smartass governor operates similarly to the interactive governor, but isn't as aggressive and allows for wake up lag reduction. The governor SHOULD be your main line of controlling clock speed, not your min and max settings. Some might like to argue that point, but that's mainly because they haven't messed around with governor parameters. With and ondemand or interactive governors, and even some smartass governors (Not Ziggy's modified), it's entirely possible to set min as low as 61MHz, and max at 1.65GHz and have the CPU rarely, if ever, reach those speeds. It depends entirely on what you've set the governor parameters to be. I don't know of any app that allows you to modify those because the locations of the parameters aren't always the same name or in the same places so it's best done through a script. The script I uses does routinely reach up to my freq_max, but it does it fairly aggressively, then ramps down just as aggressively. Part of that is the nature of the lagfree governor, part of it is where I've set the thresholds. In any event, governor control via a script is a much better solution than castrating your device.
I use SetCPU to help battery life but someone told me it's not needed on the SGS2 as it already scales CPU for demand. True?
leedavis said:
I use SetCPU to help battery life but someone told me it's not needed on the SGS2 as it already scales CPU for demand. True?
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Interesting point you raise actually.
I've just installed Setcpu and used the on demand governor. I left the values as default (200mhz for minimum and 1.2 ghz for maximum) - with no overclock.
I've immediately noticed swiping through the screens is a bit smoother and the biggest improvement is the gallery. All my photos appear much smoother. Before the gallery app was a bit lagy.
I haven't set any profiles yet such as screen off.
Every Android phone I've owned scaled the cpu, I think they all do. I've found that with setCPU my battery gets drained much faster en no real benefit in smoothness.
jzuijlek said:
Every Android phone I've owned scaled the cpu, I think they all do. I've found that with setCPU my battery gets drained much faster en no real benefit in smoothness.
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Have you tried this yet though on the Galaxy S2?
There is definitely less lag than before - as stated, specifically in the gallery app. Just generally swiping feels more responsive as well. Battery is still pretty awesome, especially when using Lightening Rom 1.1 and the Android battery calibration app.
Hmm. I'll try SetCPU on the SGS2 and post back the findings (Performance+Battery).
I don't know how can it get any more smoother, I mean its already SO smooth!
there are many points to use setcpu on gs2:
-for some reason I dunno, gs2 can't manage it's 1.2ghz without gettin too warm. downclock and get rid of the burn effect.
-gs2 sports a good management of gpu (it does most of the work and setcpu doesnt down\overclock that). downclockin doesnt affect UI or video o browsing experience at all. can even downclock at 500 max speed without any sides.
-the only side u ll see it's benchmark (quadrant downgrading to 2000) but I hope u won't pay attention to such an unseful thing. benchmark doenst mean nothing, daily usage it's the only point to look at.
my settings: conservative, 200min 800max.
battery draining doesnt belong to setcpu this time, look to other settings.
alexleon said:
there are many points to use setcpu on gs2:
-for some reason I dunno, gs2 can't manage it's 1.2ghz without gettin too warm. downclock and get rid of the burn effect.
-gs2 sports a good management of gpu (it does most of the work and setcpu doesnt down\overclock that). downclockin doesnt affect UI or video o browsing experience at all. can even downclock at 500 max speed without any sides.
-the only side u ll see it's benchmark (quadrant downgrading to 2000) but I hope u won't pay attention to such an unseful thing. benchmark doenst mean nothing, daily usage it's the only point to look at.
my settings: conservative, 200min 800max.
battery draining doesnt belong to setcpu this time, look to other settings.
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IT IS TRUE. I agree with every single line you wrote, it is just my expericence.
I have too setcpu conservative and undercloked 800 Mhz.
There no slow down or lag at all... But I am wondering if it gives a real boost to battery life. I am not sure of this.
I'll keep you guys posted... But I think that an undevolted Kernel it is really a need as for the solution of the damn dual core ginger bug that is sucking 20% of my battery every day
Well,from my experience with my Desire and Desire HD(won't even bother with the Hero,I had no real knowledge then),governors can make a huge difference.I for one like smartass or interactive governors(mostly the same).I wouldn't suggest conservative,interactive does the job much better.Tasks get done in less time and the CPU throttles down more quickly.Other than that,you can underclock or overclock all you like,it never made any big difference in battery life for me(Unless Sammy's CPUs are different in that aspect-Snapdragons are really "overclock-friendly").That's personal preference after all!
Anyway,the best solution IMO would be a vdd_levels interface.For those who don't know what it is,it is a mod made by -snq(Meet him at the Desire forums-That guy's a true LEGEND!He can patch/modify anything!),which practically allows you to change the voltage levels of the CPU on the fly rather than having to stick with the values hardcoded into the kernel.Using this and a simple script in GScript to change values that won't survive reboot or in init.d to be applied on boot,you can find the optimal voltages for your CPU(Don't forget,every CPU is unique and different),thus reducing heat and maximizing battery life.
If a dev brings that to the SGS2 it will be a big step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
I use SetCPU without issue, but only to run profiles (i limit the device to 500mhz when the screen is off). The rest of the time it scales itself up to 1.4GHz without fuss and using stock voltage. Battery life is fine, best ive had for an android device.
Wow, I've taken SetCPU off but left JuiceDefender on and my battery life is fantastic. At 70% after slightly heavier than normal use (used for listening to music for a couple of hours this morning) and been off charge for 8.5 hours.
SetCPU seems counterproductive on SGS2
leedavis said:
I use SetCPU to help battery life but someone told me it's not needed on the SGS2 as it already scales CPU for demand. True?
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I did set ondemand which is a little more reactive and slightly smoother.
Though System Tuner is less cpu-consuming and much more useful on the SGS2. No need for all those complicated settings from setCPU. Only changing governor and changing frequencies on standby are useful.
leedavis said:
Wow, I've taken SetCPU off but left JuiceDefender on and my battery life is fantastic. At 70% after slightly heavier than normal use (used for listening to music for a couple of hours this morning) and been off charge for 8.5 hours.
SetCPU seems counterproductive on SGS2
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Juice Defender uses as much battery as it saves this is fact, i have SepCPU set to 200 Min - 800 Max - On demand and have Juice Defender Ultimate and i thought it was great but it was recommended to me that i could save more battery by not using this, initially i was skeptical but tried it and i was astonished at the results, my battery life improved by 9 hours (i carried out a test with JD and without)
Anyone who says SetCPU uses up loads of battery is talking nonsense,it actually saves battery if configured correctly.
I am using Check Rom with set CPU I have it 1.2ghz max and 200. Using conservative governer. I been off charge for 15hrs, however I am using light usage I am on 72% screen on has been 5h 25m at time of writing. Not yet calibrated the battery.
jonny68 said:
Juice Defender uses as much battery as it saves this is fact, i have SepCPU set to 200 Min - 800 Max - On demand and have Juice Defender Ultimate and i thought it was great but it was recommended to me that i could save more battery by not using this, initially i was skeptical but tried it and i was astonished at the results, my battery life improved by 9 hours (i carried out a test with JD and without)
Anyone who says SetCPU uses up loads of battery is talking nonsense,it actually saves battery if configured correctly.
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What are the settings are you using for the setcpu program in your S2?? Did you remove the Juice defender application?
Well I downloaded cpu master (free) to just mess around with my photon, and come to find out, the governor for the cpu is set to performance, but gave me the option to change it to powersave, so I switch it and I'll report back to you guys and see if I've found the holy Grail to even better battery life
Sent from my MoPho using XDA App
That's awesome
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
Wait until I or another dev gets onDemand governor enabled...
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
xTMFxOffshore said:
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
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The general consensus regarding over/underclocking when I had my HTC Hero was that overclocking would save battery because you could get what you wanted done faster. If you scale the CPU back massively while it is set to sleep, however, you will save a lot of battery.
xTMFxOffshore said:
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
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well, i don't know about your phone or what else you have setup, but my phone didn't lag and it seemed to help, i currently have my evo 3d active so my photon just sits there, so i can give a good feedback of idle time, but i can tell you after switching the governor, it went down 1% in 2 hours, now i say that's an improvement, so when i get back home i'll really give you guys some feedback
P.S. with any phone i had that had a fully custom kernal, i always used conservative governor
Well, perhaps it's just the apps I have running then. As I said, when it's set to sleep, it works pretty well with the powersave mode, otherwise, doesn't seem to make any real difference. Guess it's different for everyone cause of the **** they're running on their phone.
mrinehart93 said:
The general consensus regarding over/underclocking when I had my HTC Hero was that overclocking would save battery because you could get what you wanted done faster.
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You know, I've never bought into this argument. To me, it is like saying that if I drive 100 mph I will get there faster, so I use less gas....which we all know is not how it works.
Maybe the physics are different for processors then they are for engines, but I think there is probably a happy medium somewhere. And I have a feeling that the manufactures really take this into consideration when they develop the kernels and ROMs. However, I might be wrong.
This is by no means an effort to discourage your awesome work. Everyone gets different results, but stock always seems to have the best battery life for me once all the bloat is gone. However, custom kernels do perform better. That is the trade off, in my opinion.
my2cents said:
You know, I've never bought into this argument. To me, it is like saying that if I drive 100 mph I will get there faster, so I use less gas....which we all know is not how it works.
Maybe the physics are different for processors then they are for engines, but I think there is probably a happy medium somewhere. And I have a feeling that the manufactures really take this into consideration when they develop the kernels and ROMs. However, I might be wrong.
This is by no means an effort to discourage your awesome work. Everyone gets different results, but stock always seems to have the best battery life for me once all the bloat is gone. However, custom kernels do perform better. That is the trade off, in my opinion.
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Lol honestly I never bought into it either. I was just posting was the other devs at the time said. Even using an OC kernel, I never overclocked my phone.
mrinehart93 said:
Lol honestly I never bought into it either. I was just posting was the other devs at the time said. Even using an OC kernel, I never overclocked my phone.
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Interesting...I hadn't thought about using an OC kernel and underclocking it back to stock. I wonder what that does, if anything, to performance.
The other concern that I have is that overclocking typically means more heat, which means more battery use... Just figured I would throw that out there too.
well, the results are in, now granted i already had the photon of the charge for more then 24 hours, so at 1d 15hr 57m and 10s i'm at 48%, but from the time i started the cpu test, 1:30pm, it was at 68% so in 8 horus there was only a 20% drop while idle, i say that's a good score , you guys tell me otherwise
A2CKilla said:
well, the results are in, now granted i already had the photon of the charge for more then 24 hours, so at 1d 15hr 57m and 10s i'm at 48%, but from the time i started the cpu test, 1:30pm, it was at 68% so in 8 horus there was only a 20% drop while idle, i say that's a good score , you guys tell me otherwise
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and just an update, in another 4 hours, it's only gone down 2%!!!!!! come on guys, these numbers can't lie, but remember this is idle feedback, i'll re-activate my photon at the end of the week (missing the beast!) to give more detail feedback on heavy usage and most importantly 4g!!
Development. Development. Development.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
Not sure if this will help but let me explain the car analogy. All motors have an effeciency range at x amount of throttle. So same cars will get better gas mileage at a higher speed vs a lower one. Its getting up to that speed where most energy is used.
So let me move this over to electronics. If you run a faster clock speed while on, your apps will open faster so that ia less on time for the screen and other processes that have to run. So using more watts for less time does not always equal more than using less watts for more time. We just need to fill in those blanks and obviously overclocking will not benefit the nook or internet reader as it eould someone who opens a lot of apps for short periods. Same is true for a gamer .
Hope that makes sense and this is all IMHO of course.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
scoobdude said:
Not sure if this will help but let me explain the car analogy. All motors have an effeciency range at x amount of throttle. So same cars will get better gas mileage at a higher speed vs a lower one. Its getting up to that speed where most energy is used.
So let me move this over to electronics. If you run a faster clock speed while on, your apps will open faster so that ia less on time for the screen and other processes that have to run. So using more watts for less time does not always equal more than using less watts for more time. We just need to fill in those blanks and obviously overclocking will not benefit the nook or internet reader as it eould someone who opens a lot of apps for short periods. Same is true for a gamer .
Hope that makes sense and this is all IMHO of course.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start this off by saying that I am an agricultural engineer by trade. With that said, I would agree that engines have an efficiency range. However, I would not agree that it is at x throttle. Rather, it is a x load. And most cars are designed to be at optimal load at about 60 mph (wind resist, weight, etc. play a role in this). You're right, it does require more fuel to get to that speed because the load is higher until that speed is reached. Furthermore, higher speeds (greater than 60 mph) do NOT translate into higher fuel mileages because the load increases to maintain the higher speed (because there is more wind resistance, among other things).
I know a bit about electricity too, but I don't fully understand the physics behind circuit boards. However, I think the analogy still holds. I can get to 60 mph as fast as I want, but the faster I do it the more energy is required. Therefore, even though it is done faster it still requires more energy, which also creates more heat, both of which use the battery. So, I continue to contend that there is a happy medium that most be found and I think electronic engineers aren't to far off.
Here is a little more reading about car efficiency, if you are interested: http://www.mpgforspeed.com/
I believe your confusing overclocking and overvolting. We are putting x volts into the processor so the more cycles we can get in x volts the better. If we have to overvolt to overclock then we see big battery hits.
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
2cents, that link is interesting but real world examples have proven otherwise to me. Our saab will do better on mpg at 70 to 75 (30 on cruise control) vs 55 to 65(27 to 28 on cruise). Now the wrx is another story as well. With the old 3.9 final drive i would pull in more air at the airflow meter at 65 than i would at 70 with stoich as the target a/f ratio, and because that motor was doing under 2500 rpms the turbo was out of the equation further taking out efficiency with it. Now with the 4.44 and a better 1-2 gear ratio car gets better at the lower engine speeds and accelerates even better and that was before i retuned it.
Another misconception is bigger motors use more gas, one of the recent corvettes get 30 on the highway proving that there is more to this as well.
I think i have taken this off topic enoigh for now. But in general i think my formula still needs to be applied to see the results as a valid number to compare overclocking and underclocking to running stock.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
i'm surprised no one even thought of this topic, regardless if things are getting done "faster" you are overclocking the cpu, making it go faster then what it's suppose to, which makes it use more power i.e. more battery, every phone that i had when i overclocked it, the battery wouldn't last too long, even with my 3500mah OG evo, if i overclocked it, i couldn't get a whole day, so underclocking will have the same effect in a sense since the processor now has to work harder to do what it does at it's stock clocked speed, well, hope anything i said here makes any logical sense, but on another note, the photon has gone almost 3 days unplugged!!!
again it depends on how the overclock is achieved. In most cases overclock is achieved by dumping more electricity into the cpu this will impact battery life, however alot of chips these days can be overclocked at the same volts essentially upping the "MPG" or clocks per volt.
A2CKilla said:
i'm surprised no one even thought of this topic, regardless if things are getting done "faster" you are overclocking the cpu, making it go faster then what it's suppose to, which makes it use more power i.e. more battery, every phone that i had when i overclocked it, the battery wouldn't last too long, even with my 3500mah OG evo, if i overclocked it, i couldn't get a whole day, so underclocking will have the same effect in a sense since the processor now has to work harder to do what it does at it's stock clocked speed, well, hope anything i said here makes any logical sense, but on another note, the photon has gone almost 3 days unplugged!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this for the most part. When it comes to power the end result is watts, which is essentially equal to volts x amps. It is not perfect because of a power factor, but it is close. Therefore, if you lower the voltage, the amperage goes up because the same watts are required to run the processor. The inverse is also true. These processors have voltage ranges that they will safely run in, but in the end, they require the same energy (in watts) to function at a given load. Change one a little bit (the voltage for example) and the other (amperage) compensates. Change it a lot and it likely wont work. Again, this is how it works for your typical home appliances. For a circuit board, it might be a slightly different story, but I imagine the science does not change.
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------
scoobdude said:
2cents, that link is interesting but real world examples have proven otherwise to me. Our saab will do better on mpg at 70 to 75 (30 on cruise control) vs 55 to 65(27 to 28 on cruise). Now the wrx is another story as well. With the old 3.9 final drive i would pull in more air at the airflow meter at 65 than i would at 70 with stoich as the target a/f ratio, and because that motor was doing under 2500 rpms the turbo was out of the equation further taking out efficiency with it. Now with the 4.44 and a better 1-2 gear ratio car gets better at the lower engine speeds and accelerates even better and that was before i retuned it.
Another misconception is bigger motors use more gas, one of the recent corvettes get 30 on the highway proving that there is more to this as well.
I think i have taken this off topic enoigh for now. But in general i think my formula still needs to be applied to see the results as a valid number to compare overclocking and underclocking to running stock.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be right. Perhaps Saab designed their fuel efficiency at 70 mph. It's possible because many speed limits are now at or near that, but in general, optimal fuel consumption is going to be at or near 60 mph. Obviously gear ratios and such play a huge role in fuel economy. It is like using a custom rom, typically your mods will make it perform better, but the best fuel economy or battery life will come with a stock like setup.
Sure a corvette can have HP and economy. There is a power to weight ratio and lots of aerodynamics involved, which again is designed at a specific speed. But there is no way that a dragster will have a good fuel efficiency. To my point, there is a balance...
I agree, we are off topic a little bit, but the conversation is interesting, nonetheless.
By the way, can a mod move this to general, please?
Today I'm launching this not-so-little experiment of mine.
Purpeltendire said:
Now that I've familiarized myself with much of the Rezound forum, I was wondering how I could begin contributing in my own way. I don't have much skill in the way of development, and with school I doubt I'd have the time. But then another thought came to mind... guinea pig!
A Governor a Day
So basically what I'm planning on doing is testing the effects of the various CPU governors. I was planning on doing this for myself anyways, as I'm very curious what the practical differences are between governors.
I'll be setting several constants (Min/Max frequencies, voltages, ROM/Kernel, etc) and the only variable (at first) will be the governor. I'll probably start off with a one day time period, just because of the simplicity. Overall routine will be to set the governor when I plug my phone in, either at night before I go to bed or just before I run out of juice -- say 10% mark. And then just use it as I always do, because I have the benefit of a fairly regular class schedule there shouldn't be any significant changes to my usage pattern.
I'll be using several apps to help document all this data; if you want to suggest another to add to the accuracy and range of the stats, feel free. So far the list is:
Statistics
GSam Battery Monitor.
SystemPanel [Paid].
CPU Spy.
BetterBatteryStats (Added 02/29/13)
Settings
Kernel Tuner
Android Tuner Free
I'm guessing that for the first week or so I'll be taking community feedback from you all and incorporating it into the OP as constants and such, so the final experiment probably won't start for another few days and I'll have to redo my first few days of statistics. But that really doesn't bother me.
This is sort of my introductory post, I'm almost done with my day on DanceDance. As I told some people in the Infection2.1 thread I'd be making a very detailed post of my battery life and settings, I'll also be copying that post into a new thread and reserving the first few posts for myself. You're all welcome to make suggestions in both this thread and the dedicated thread, but let's try to keep Neo's ROM thread clean for him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thinking of starting with the more popular governors first. It seems as if Wheatley and DanceDance are both very popular and also very similar, so that might be an ideal starting point for my first two days. Thoughts, and are there any apps you would like to see me use to record data?
Using this post to display the most current governor post.
Purpeltendire said:
Intellidemand redo!
First off, pay less attention to the BetterBatteryStats stuff. I had a weird usage pattern today... used it normally until about 9 PST, then had a mild crisis to deal with over GTalk until like now. So non-stop typing for a solid hour and a half kind of ruined the battery usage percentage... it was way lower earlier.
I'm also glad to be redoing this now that Intellidemand has been getting so much attention in Infection 2.3 and Hiro as a very good governor.
Intellidemand Redo 1
Intellidemand Redo 2
Intellidemand Redo 3
Great governor. I think this can give Wheatley a run for its money. From memory, my usage up until my typing storm was around 2 hours screen on time, and 3.9% battery usage. That's truly fantastic. I ended with a pretty high hourly percentage, BUT! I also ended with nearly 3 hours of screen-on time. For many people that's not only high, it can't be done. So all the more amazing because of it.
Performance wise, this is a very close runner to OnDemand. Little lag unless you go out of your way to look for it, and good scaling too.
Final conclusion is that this is a capable all-rounder, and it supports tweaking so you can go even further to customize it to your needs. I highly recommend you do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Links to individual governor writeups, as the thread is a bit of a mess.
Wheatley
DanceDance
Intellidemand
Ondemand
Lionheart
SmartassV2
Lulzactive
Scary
Interactive
Lazy
Badass
SavageZen
Skywalker
Conservative
Performance
Comparison: Wheatley v. DanceDance v. SmartassV2
Re: A Governor a Day
Sounds legit man good luck can't wait to see results.
What is your usage like? How much screen on time are you looking to get?
I'd like to see android tuner used to set governors it also has a nice battery stats portion of the app.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Re: A Governor a Day
Squirrel1620 said:
Sounds legit man good luck can't wait to see results.
What is your usage like? How much screen on time are you looking to get?
I'd like to see android tuner used to set governors it also has a nice battery stats portion of the app.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually have between 1.5 to 2 hours of screen-on time. If I do a lot of document editing away from home it might be closer to 2.5, but that's on the long side for me.
When I used Android Tuner within Ecliptic, I wasn't really fond of its interface. But I'll take a look again, at the least I could use the battery stats from it.
Edit: Spent about 15 minutes digging through the settings in the free version of Android Tuner. Unfortunately it looks like a lot of the battery and statistic recording is only on the paid version of the app, or else takes up almost double the resources of GSam and SystemPanel together. Plus I really don't feel like paying $10 for an app I don't like. But take a look at everything when I post in the OP later, hopefully most if not all of the data you're looking for will be in there from either GSam or SystemPanel.
Sent from my Infected Rezound.
I ran the Wheatley governor today, CPU Min at 192 MHz and max at 1350. I undervolted another -50mV from standard Infected, so it's 100mV below stock. The second CPU core was disabled unless needed, and was running the OnDemand governor.
The phone spent as much time at 1350Mhz as it spent with the screen on, at about 2 hours 15 minutes. Total time before I plugged the phone in to upload screenshots was at 16 hours 20 minutes, with about 27% battery left (That Battery Stats screenshot was taken after I had it plugged in for a couple minutes, sorry). According to GSam, the screen took about 49% power, apps took about 45%, and Wifi/Radios took about 5.6% together.
The biggest battery hogging app was Apex Launcher by a long shot, at 17%.
Most of the stats you can see just by looking through the screenshots, I had to upload them to dropbox because they're too large to include in the post and XDA attachments downsizes them far too much.
If you have any other questions or want to see additional stats that I didn't include, feel free to ask in this thread (link in my signature). I'll be doing this sort of thing daily with different governors as a sort of real-world experiment, so if you have any suggestions please let me know. Suggestions on everything from how I should set the kernel or governor up, to applications I should use to track usage, everything is welcome.
Screens! (Click to zoom if you need to)
Wheatley End 1
Wheatley End 2
Wheatley End 3
Yesterday when I was running Wheatley, I took some screenshots when the battery hit 50%, but I didn't end up using them in the final post. Now that I'm on DanceDance today, I did the same thing to see if there were differences. I didn't expect many, because lots of people say that these two governors are very similar.
DanceDance at 50%
Wheatley at 50%
I must say, I was surprised. So far I'm getting about an hour less battery life than yesterday. The differences in screen on time are minimal, about seven minutes, but the screen is using about 2 percent more power on DanceDance. Applications are also using more power, by about 3%. Somehow this is all adding up to about an hour less battery... which might be considerable to some.
Man.. I'm talking to myself here. Oh well. At least I'm good company! :highfive:
Alright, DanceDance. I'll link the screenshots, and then do my writeup.
DanceDance 1
DanceDance 2
DanceDance 3
Right off the bat, according to CPU Spy the phone spent a little more time at various intermediate clocks than in Wheatley. However, this may have been due to the fact that when on Wheatley I had CPU1 set to OnDemand and not Wheatley like CPU0 was. Thanks for the catch, brenuga;
brenuga said:
I think the reason the cpu spent so much time at 1350 is because your cpu1 governor is set to ondemand. I would change it to wheatley or Intellidemand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have to come back to Wheatley on both CPUs sometime soon.
Moving on to GSam. Phone Radio, Screen on, Wifi, and Wake time all look pretty similar if you compare them to the Wheatley screenshots; everything was within about 30 minutes of each other, which makes sense because I took the DanceDance screenshots 30 minutes earlier in the evening than the Wheatley ones. However, in Wheatley, the screen used more power than the apps, while in DanceDance the apps were using slightly more power than the screen. I'm not sure if this was due to my usage or not...
App usage were largely the same as well.
SystemPanel offers a bit more insight. The Battery and Device Usage plots on Wheatley and DanceDance were very close to each other, sharing the same shape and general line. However the lowest graph (which has its label cut off, sorry. It's CPU Usage!) tells a different story. Wheatley appears to have a significantly lower CPU Usage average, at times appearing to be by as much as ~20%.
These two governors are very very similar, as you'll read time and time again in these forums. But sometimes it's not about stats... sometimes it's about how your device feels. That's where DanceDance really wins in this comparison. To me, it feels a fair bit smoother and more fluid -- more Buttery, I suppose. This does come at a cost though; while your screen is on, you can practically watch the battery meter drop. It's a lot more exciting than watching paint dry... fair bit of action here haha. Wheatley didn't seem to have the same kind of battery drop while using applications as DanceDance did. However it seemed to make up for it, with CPU Usage appearing to fall to lower thresholds than in Wheatley at one or two points.
TL;DR: DanceDance felt a little better from a smoothness standpoint, while Wheatley seemed to be a bit better at conserving battery with screen on. I think that they're so close though that DanceDance is the better choice. Who doesn't like smooth?
Thank you for the review! I like.
Pretty cool idea. Keep it up.
Re: A Governor a Day
I'll make a thread in the general (non device specific) to try and get more attention here. I think a lot of people would like to see these results
Here is the thread in general discussion
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2171844
Oh and may I request intellidemand? I've always used it. Thank you
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Awesome! Great idea.
Now do Lionheart!
Squirrel1620 said:
I'll make a thread in the general (non device specific) to try and get more attention here. I think a lot of people would like to see these results
Here is the thread in general discussion
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2171844
Oh and may I request intellidemand? I've always used it. Thank you
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Appreciate that man, thanks.
You're in luck! I'm actually doing Intellidemand today, and then OnDemand tomorrow.
chupajr said:
Awesome! Great idea.
Now do Lionheart!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Recommend me an AOSP kernel with Lionheart enabled, and I'd be more than happy to. Snuzzo's Funky doesn't have it.
Halfway through Intellidemand day, and I'll compare it with DanceDance because that's the most recent one.
Intellidemand at 50%
DanceDance at 50%
Through the day I've noticed battery life is considerably worse than either DanceDance or Wheatley. DanceDance took almost 1.5 hours longer to drain to 50%. The screen is taking about 11% more power than in DanceDance, even though it's been on for 15 minutes less. I'm fairly sure my brightness settings have been about the same (Auto in daylight, set level around 20% indoors).
Full write up will come tonight.
Re: A Governor a Day
Purpeltendire said:
Recommend me an AOSP kernel with Lionheart enabled, and I'd be more than happy to. Snuzzo's Funky doesn't have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine has it (Ermahgerd), and at least one (maybe both) of iHateWebOS's has it.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
shrike1978 said:
Mine has it (Ermahgerd), and at least one (maybe both) of iHateWebOS's has it.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, thanks. I'll have to give your kernel and iHate's Deluxe a try when I finish up with the governors in Snuzzo's,
Without further ado, here's Intellidemand as requested. [Now with BetterBatteryStats!]
Intellidemand End 1
Intellidemand End 2
Intellidemand End 3
The governor seemed to be decent at scaling, keeping the CPU spread out more than either DanceDance or Wheatley. Still between one and five minutes spent at the more popular clocks, with the majority of the time logged at 1350, 192, and Deep Sleep as usual. Nothing major to report here, pretty standard for what I've seen so far.
GSam has something different to say. For one, battery life seemed strained. There was considerably more usage at idle or deep sleep than either DanceDance or Wheatley. I watched a movie at one point this evening, and when I checked my phone again it had dropped 6% over 2.5 hours, without touching it once. It also ramped up quickly while browsing, I think in the time it took me to make a 2 sentence post the battery dropped 6 or 7%. That didn't happen with the others. The battery discharge graph is pretty steep, which makes sense given the increased discharge.
Also, app usage seemed abnormally high. I checked on that and found that the Android OS/Kernel was using a LOT of power: 65%. Yesterday on DanceDance it was using 6%... there's something weird here.
If someone running Intellidemand (Squirrel1620?) could run GSam for a day and see if this happens to you, that would be great. I'd like to see if this is a random event or something consistent with the governor.
SystemPanel reports similar findings under "System Processes" with 43% of my total CPU usage. But quite frankly, other than that there's nothing really weird going on. No wakelocks, no apps freezing... it just seems like the OS wasn't idle for some reason.
My verdict: Not a governor for idle users, partly because it's based off the GPU. If you do gaming or use apps that require a bit more graphical power, then by all means go for it. But for users like me, who text, browse the web a bit, and do some forum work, this governor has very little to offer except minimal noticed lag.
Tomorrow [Saturday] I'll do OnDemand, and Sunday I'll pick another kernel to flash so I can do Lionheart on Monday.
Re: A Governor a Day
Purpeltendire said:
Alright, thanks. I'll have to give your kernel and iHate's Deluxe a try when I finish up with the governors in Snuzzo's,
Without further ado, here's Intellidemand as requested. [Now with BetterBatteryStats!]
Intellidemand End 1
Intellidemand End 2
Intellidemand End 3
The governor seemed to be decent at scaling, keeping the CPU spread out more than either DanceDance or Wheatley. Still between one and five minutes spent at the more popular clocks, with the majority of the time logged at 1350, 192, and Deep Sleep as usual. Nothing major to report here, pretty standard for what I've seen so far.
GSam has something different to say. For one, battery life seemed strained. There was considerably more usage at idle or deep sleep than either DanceDance or Wheatley. I watched a movie at one point this evening, and when I checked my phone again it had dropped 6% over 2.5 hours, without touching it once. It also ramped up quickly while browsing, I think in the time it took me to make a 2 sentence post the battery dropped 6 or 7%. That didn't happen with the others. The battery discharge graph is pretty steep, which makes sense given the increased discharge.
Also, app usage seemed abnormally high. I checked on that and found that the Android OS/Kernel was using a LOT of power: 65%. Yesterday on DanceDance it was using 6%... there's something weird here.
If someone running Intellidemand (Squirrel1620?) could run GSam for a day and see if this happens to you, that would be great. I'd like to see if this is a random event or something consistent with the governor.
SystemPanel reports similar findings under "System Processes" with 43% of my total CPU usage. But quite frankly, other than that there's nothing really weird going on. No wakelocks, no apps freezing... it just seems like the OS wasn't idle for some reason.
My verdict: Not a governor for idle users, partly because it's based off the GPU. If you do gaming or use apps that require a bit more graphical power, then by all means go for it. But for users like me, who text, browse the web a bit, and do some forum work, this governor has very little to offer except minimal noticed lag.
Tomorrow [Saturday] I'll do OnDemand, and Sunday I'll pick another kernel to flash so I can do Lionheart on Monday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll run intellidemand on lunar kernel with EclipticRez. Starting off at 100% and ill post gsam when it gets to about 14
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Re: A Governor a Day
Thanks for your testing info. Battery and performance are important to me which I'm sure is much like others. Great reviews so far
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Squirrel1620 said:
I'll run intellidemand on lunar kernel with EclipticRez. Starting off at 100% and ill post gsam when it gets to about 14
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Jwezesa said:
Thanks for your testing info. Battery and performance are important to me which I'm sure is much like others. Great reviews so far
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. Anything in particular you'd like to see?
EDIT: Phone decided to shut itself off while I wasn't paying attention, so the stats were all reset. No results today unfortunately.
Re: A Governor a Day
Ok so this was intellidemand underclocked 1.35 ghz normal usage mostly 3g/wifi
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