Related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev3rUQMvyhU
In an attempt to distance themselves from the increasingly volatile Carrier IQ situation, we’ve been told that Sprint has ordered that all of their hardware partners remove the Carrier IQ software from Sprint devices as soon as possible.
This comes after a number of dramatic turns over the past few weeks. During that time Carrier IQ was called a lot of things, from a harmless mobile intelligence company to a vicious rootkit designed to steal our personal data and sell it to the ne’er-do-wells. In my opinion, Carrier IQ is a company that provides a service that benefits everyone with a cellphone by giving information to the carriers about when their network has problems that affects our service. Unfortunately, this software was installed in such a manner that, when discovered, there was a significant panic. This is understandable because the software was forced onto unsuspecting users with no real oversight to speak of.
That panic was made worse when the company responded by trying to silence the person who discovered the software, instead of trying to explain what was actually happening. So here we sit, a month away from a Senate hearing on whether or not Carrier IQ is doing anything illegal, on top of a barrage of lawsuits against all of the companies involved.
Sources at HTC have told us that, as a result of the lawsuits targeting Carrier IQ, Sprint, and other CIQ-using OEMs, Sprint has asked all of their partners to get rid of Carrier IQ. Starting with the high-volume and high-profile devices on the network, each of the OEM’s has been asked to quickly release binaries that do not contain Carrier IQ so that over-the-air updates can be pushed to those devices as quickly as possible. The eventual plan is to remove Carrier IQ from all of the devices on Sprint’s network.
This is being done as soon as possible and, according to our source at HTC, anyone who is working with Sprint in testing labs have even had their vacation time over the holidays seriously restricted. No official rollout plan for these updates has been devised, but it has been made clear to everyone involved that this change needs to happen soon. I would assume that we will see updates for devices including the iPhone, HTC Evo 3D, and the Samsung Galaxy S II Epic 4G Touch before 2012.
At this time, Carrier IQ, Samsung, and Apple all refused to comment on any developments in this matter.
Some may view this as a classic “too little, too late” situation. Sprint waited until there were lawsuits to start removing Carrier IQ from their network, where previously they had been defending their use of the mobile intelligence service. This could possibly even be seen as an admission of guilt, as them removing the software in an attempt to make amends for what they have been caught doing.
Even so, Sprint could have just as easily made a public statement announcing that they were turning off the servers that collected the information, pending the results of the trial and the Senate inquiry. At that point a simple test from any of the security researchers that have gotten involved would confirm Sprint’s cancellation of CIQ and they wouldn’t have to involve every manufacturer on their network.
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http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile...trip-carrier-iq-from-their-hardware-20111216/
TrevE > CIQ
Nuff said!!!
Another victory!!!! TrevE is forever my hero!
While this is nice and all the article seems to be lacking some knowledge in itself on some things. mainly the fact it included iPhone in the list of devices that would be getting updates. I'm pretty sure Apple commented on this long ago stating they do not use CarrierIQ in their devices anymore at all.
And I can't really see Sprint able to force Apple to load it on the device either...
Awsome just hope we didn't make it worst for sprint
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
tech7 said:
Awsome just hope we didn't make it worst for sprint
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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I just had to laugh I mean Sprints network already sucks how could it possibly get worse. CarrierIQ is not going to fix 4G or even poor 3G speeds due to network congestion. They know they have a problem doubt they need an app to confirm it.
Can you say Pwned! TrevE is the man!
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
bloodrain954 said:
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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How are we pathetic..... Ciq is the one that is pathetic. They had the chance to explain what CIQ does but instead they try to silence TrevE. On top of that they install CIQ without even letting you know.
I understand that it's probably used to make phones and services better, but they should at least give you a disclaimer, an opt out option, and an explanation of what CIQ does and maybe then so many people wouldn't be angry at CIQ.
I think the *****ing and complaining is like he said...the fact they covered it up, tried to silence someone. Not that its probably bad software but bad business ethics. Agreed?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
bloodrain954 said:
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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Oh please, its fine that you are ok with invasive measures that reduce your personal security, freedom, and privacy but criticizing other's opinions based on your lack of knowledge is crap. When your life is ruined because data isn't protected and you didn't authorize or get the choice in giving that info up I hope you remember your BS logic that the risk is fine and dandy because they were "trying" to gather data to improve things.
So naive, yeah they want to mine and transfer data to make your life better. Wrong, bottom line is the almighty dollar. They make millions doing what they do, they could give two ****s less about you and your experience
+1 so true
Information was still being withdrawn from my phone without my permission. Individual info should never be given out for free nor taken without consent.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
CIQ might have done the right thing collecting error logs on the phone to troubleshoot. But installing it on devices without user permission or any kind of disclosure of the software being install is just "unethical".
P.S. the reason why they are being sued was due to unethical practices.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The fact that it was capable of reading texts, emails, URLs, passwords is what the problem is. We're just supposed to believe they aren't using it for that? Why the hell is it even possible to do so then?!
Cuss all you want..you can be a tool. I'll go with the crowd that wants it gone.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Sad Panda said:
Oh please, its fine that you are ok with invasive measures that reduce your personal security, freedom, and privacy but criticizing other's opinions based on your lack of knowledge is crap. When your life is ruined because data isn't protected and you didn't authorize or get the choice in giving that info up I hope you remember your BS logic that the risk is fine and dandy because they were "trying" to gather data to improve things.
So naive, yeah they want to mine and transfer data to make your life better. Wrong, bottom line is the almighty dollar. They make millions doing what they do, they could give two ****s less about you and your experience
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LOL! When my life is ruined? They aren't stealing credit card and social security numbers, they are just reporting what apps and hardware is used during the day. Huge difference. Yeah, CIQ didn't do the right thing with the lawsuit, boo hoo life goes on.
You know people at your local bank track everything you do, have access to your credit cards and social security number. They can tell you where you've spent your money, what you bought, and all your personal information, yet nobody cries about that. But its a huge deal to report to Sprint that your playing angry birds at 1pm.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
bloodrain954 said:
You know people at your local bank track everything you do, have access to your credit cards and social security number. They can tell you where you've spent your money, what you bought, and all your personal information, yet nobody cries about that. But its a huge deal to report to Sprint that your playing angry birds at 1pm.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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That's because by choosing the bank you opt into that, and go in knowing that they can track your money. And for the record they don't know what you bought, just that you spent so much money here and so much money there. The cc from the bank gets an amount taken not an itemization of funds spent per transaction. CIQ was added without knowledge, why can't you grasp the differences?
http://allthingsd.com/20111201/carr...monitors-service-messages-ignores-other-data/
Learn what it really does before you jump on the zomg my personal info is compromised!!1! Bandwagon.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
bloodrain954 said:
http://allthingsd.com/20111201/carr...monitors-service-messages-ignores-other-data/
Learn what it really does before you jump on the zomg my personal info is compromised!!1! Bandwagon.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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First of all I never said anything about personal info. I don't like how it was forced onto us without control. Second, just because they say (AFTER they were found out about) that their software does do anything with personal data doesn't mean it's true. The US Gov said there were weapons of mass destruction and we should go to war, there wasn't and we were there for oil only. Don't believe something especially when the company has their back against the wall trying to fish their way out.
wardfan220 said:
The US Gov said there were weapons of mass destruction and we should go to war, there wasn't and we were there for oil only.
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Iraq war is a great analogy for Carrier IQ....
I'm not a programmer. Actually starting school for programming in a month, but what makes it hard for Devs to unlock them selves?
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium
128-bit encryption key
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
fuzzer said:
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
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+1(0 char)
fuzzer said:
128-bit encryption key
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this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
Paris6906 said:
this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
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So close. It's actually 2^128. That's two to the power of one-hundred twenty eight.
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
hashish16 said:
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
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no one is really going to know how it all works for asus until asus releases their tool with the specifics on everything.
but as far as the law goes, if whatever you need warranty work for has nothing to do with you loading custom roms or messing with the kernel etc, you should have no problem sending it in for warranted repairs.
ie, the power button is broken or the screen dies
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
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I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Evo_Shift said:
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
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IIRC Asus did explicitly say that it was nVidia forcing them to lock the bootloader on the Prime. This could of course be BS, but after such a public statement saying this, nVidia would have gone apesh*t if it was not the truth.
It's all to do with the Tegra3 and the Prime being basically a prototype released only for mass beta testing. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Still love my Prime though.
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
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Click to collapse
It doesn't have to be! It is not a bill, but an exemption to the DMCA. If we can show our support by contacting the Copyright office and showing them that jailbreaking/rooting is beneficial, they can extend the exemption. The EFF has more info on how to contact the Copyright office and how to request that other electronics be included (did you know that tablets are NOT covered in the exemption?) like consoles, tablets, and more.
https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices
XDA has 337,000 active members. This effects all of us. Let them know it should not be illegal to use your electronics however you wish!
It does not affect ALL of us by any means, however, I have already shown my support by donating to the EFF. It's disgusting that a device that you have paid your hard earned cash for can be ruled over with an iron fist as though you are simply renting it for the duration of it's life....
.... Oh that business model sounds familiar.
Doktaphex said:
It does not affect ALL of us by any means...
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I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
silentheero said:
I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
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I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
Doktaphex said:
I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
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Thank you for supporting the EFF! All I can do at the moment is to support by getting people motivated.
monkey10120 said:
I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
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Rooting can be considered as illegal as it uses hacking methods, and so break the software that belongs to the company made the device, even if the software is in majority open source, there are always closed parts that are concern by trading laws.
And be precise please, the'illegal' rooting stuff is ONLY concerning USA.
Plenty of places with some very smart devs where rooting will never become illegal. Russia as an example, or China (where the exemption would only apply to US built product). If some countries want to kill off their engineering and software development communities, plenty of other places in the world will be only too happy to step in and take over.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, android is open source. So then there's no copyright infringement unless you hack the apps or something. IOS on the other hand isn't open source so jailbreaking it could be seen as infringing. But I still disagree that rooting/ jailbreaking should be illegal.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
As a person who has had two phones stolen I can tell you one thing - there needs to be a password on the use of flashing. First I had a galaxy note, which has Samsung locate. But hardware reset saw to that. Second I had a CSL Spice, knowing about hardware reset, I set about finding an un resettable program. In comes avast (brilliant though it is).
Two criticisms, first is its method of retrieval. Sms. Yes, sms. The thief has thrown your sim card in a bush, but in order to remotely access your phone, avast smses your sim card. Classic. Try it, steal your own phone, or get a mate to, it's so tragic its funny. Go on, back up your apps, take out your sd card, and be your own thief. Second issue, obviously is flashing. Avast hides on the partition, but this is wiped and remade based upon your new OS. Bye bye avast.
So really there are two key solutions: password protection on the flashing access. Set by the user, changeable only by those the user gives it to (engineers/new owners). And the other is set a hardware code like IMEI on accessing not just a phone network, but also Google Play registration, and Samsung /other apps registration. That way the code can be flagged by the owner. Actually thirdly is an email address which appears upon failed flashing password attempts. To remind the thief that he can still take the brick of plastic and metal (and gps) back.
I'd like all new owners to be informed of what to do upon loosing their phone, codes to note down etc. As I feel this is not done enough. I'd love to start a push to get Samsung and other droid phones as well as Google Play to start this and maybe we can finally end phone theft.
Anyone think a petition is possible?
How were your phones stolen? I have never had one of the 40+ phones i or my immediate family have owned (knock on wood here as i probably just jinxed myself) stolen.
In my case it could be just locale, but i have worked in some pretty rough areas with high crime rates so i could just be lucky or plain diligent with what i do with my phone when not in use.
Not being disrespectful here, just seeking enlightenment on what behaviours/actions leads to them being stolen to see how it is different to my experience.
As to your proposal, not a bad idea. One thing i can think of is that like the locked bootloaders that were/are put on some phones, somebody will most likely find an exploit/hack to get around it. They almost always do. Could be talking out my arse on that as i am not knowledgeable with this but they always seem to find a way.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
but this dexpends where you go and therefore stuff as such.....if i were to stay home alot im sure the 40+ phones ive had would hardly get stolen as well. saying this I've had to phones stolen as well and its not fun. i would sign
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
I do like the Imei idea. I've never had a phone stolen. I've worked in gyms, restaraunts, public schools, indoor reffing, etc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
depends how tech savy the thief is.. if they perform an Odin flash then only thing preventing use of the phone on ATT is IMEI blacklisting. Couple of things come to mind that might help. If they pick up the phone and try to use it as-is without switching SIMS or factory reset Plan-B can help. If either of these is done then only thing that will help would be something such as a preconfigured Plan-B app in the CWM image to "phone home" after SIM change and factory reset.
Security would lay back and laugh at your problem.
Just being aware of your environment and using sensible precautions will go a long way towards preventing theft. Treat your phone like it's worth hundreds of dollars and you should be OK. For example, If you were at a social gathering where there were many people you didn't know would you leave six one hundred dollar bills sitting on a table in a secluded area while you went to the bathroom? Probably not, yet I commonly see people doing just that with their $600 phones at parties or while at the park with friends. They rely on strangers honesty and their friends vigilance to protect their property. The trouble is, cell phones have become so common place the friends would be as likely wonder why someone is picking up their beer as to why they are picking up your phone. Honest folks expect others to be just as honest as they are and why not? They are normal after all and aren't all normal people honest just like them? So, if someone sees another picking up a random ubiquitous phone and putting it to their ear while they walk out the door they will surely not think twice about it. The phone is obviously that person's, else why would they pick it up? Thief's who steal in public rely on people not noticing "normal" behavior. Just treat your phone like it's a hundred dollar bill and you should suffer no more losses due to theft, unless you are mugged of course.
Just get Cerberus. Problem solved.
TheMrRoxtar said:
but this dexpends where you go and therefore stuff as such.....if i were to stay home alot im sure the 40+ phones ive had would hardly get stolen as well. saying this I've had to phones stolen as well and its not fun. i would sign
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I wish i could stay at home a lot. Not the case. Do lot of traveling and in a lot of different locales/ environments. Just don't put my property where there is an opportunity for some one else to make it theirs. That is why i asked what the circumstances were behind theirs being stolen. If it was stolen due to lack of diligence on their pArt or were they physically assaulted.
Sorry about your losses and i am sure it is not a pleasant experience. I know i would not be happy.
I personally think the idea is sound.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
jpeg42 said:
Just get Cerberus. Problem solved.
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what he said...
and, be more aware of where your phone is at ALL TIMES...
one time is understandable; two times is carelessness..
I love how western these answers are. Lol, left it in a cafe. My galaxy note was ripped out of my hands my a thief on a motorcycle in Malaysia while I was checking gps map, and my CSL Spice was pushed out of my pocket as I was being dry humped on a moped in Bali. That last one is classed as an accidental loss, which turned into a theft as the lucky buggers driving behind me probably found it. How is besides the point really. "you were stabbed? Oh, we're you in stab proof armour? Carrying a gun? Oh, silly girl!"
Cerberus is bandied around like avast anti theft, if it's flash proof, then I'll bite (as it were), but I'd like to see that claim.
Chiefly what we could do with is a hardware code that content providers request on account activation. Something a phone can't change. It needs a built in theft message/action not one remotely sent. And it needs a flash password.
Actually a readable hardware code would suffice if all content providers signed up.
Who would you speak to to suggest such a thing?
Already in chats with Samsung and Google Play customer services, but they aren't really the development team sadly.
In my city there are at least 4,000 phones for sale on Craigslist daily. Can you imagine how many customer service people at&t would need to manage the IEMI switching? It would be like the frakkin DMV for transfer of ownership. And managing blacklisted IEMI? Fuggetaboutit. I asked one about that idea and their response was "stolen phones are new customers".
the only way to prevent stuff from being stolen, is not to own it in the first place...IMHO
That being said, we all take the risk together when we pull out these fancy devices for the world to see. and lets face it, we all like to flaunt our wares as a status symbol on occasion.
the note is a big fancy eye catcher, and a prime target for crooks to swipe from unsuspecting folks not paying attention. ( sorry about the dry humping moped issue).
And since the odds are, your device will get stolen again, you should change your habits of usage if possible.
I agree that security of the device after theft is difficult, and I would support a petition to enhance the security measures, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on any carrier taking the task on. Like ranger said, a stolen phone is a new customer.....g
It wouldn't require any work, nor switching, just adding a field for IMEI. This is automatic for carriers right, but it needs to be the same for Google play and other app sites.
When a user looses his phone, he logs the IMEI as stolen, and the Google Team put that code on a watch list. Any Form designer could handle that. IMEI or serial number or whatever is hardware based.
Simple idea no?
Thats why I bought this app called gotya.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.myboyfriendisageek.gotya
-Once you go NOTE, you'd say 4 inches a Joke
NOTE user:
"take a deep breath, make sure to get a good look at it, relax and slowly take it in, the size is overwhelming at first but you will have a happy ending afterwards".
Woman:
:O
Veruvir said:
It wouldn't require any work, nor switching, just adding a field for IMEI. This is automatic for carriers right, but it needs to be the same for Google play and other app sites.
When a user looses his phone, he logs the IMEI as stolen, and the Google Team put that code on a watch list. Any Form designer could handle that. IMEI or serial number or whatever is hardware based.
Simple idea no?
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Click to collapse
And when the vindictive girlfriends and exwifes report out of spite?
rangercaptain said:
And when the vindictive girlfriends and exwifes report out of spite?
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Click to collapse
you'd think they'd just smash it on the floor or drop it in the toilet...
You probably live in a ****ty neighbourhood no offence.
Sent from my SGH-I717M using xda premium
Sarius24 said:
You probably live in a ****ty neighbourhood no offence.
Sent from my SGH-I717M using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Yeah, there's no criminals in "nice" neighborhoods.
I use Tasker for:
When I switch locations, a front/back pic + GPS, sent to google drive.
When not at a location that has is known, it sends the same info every time the screen comes on.
Tasker locks certain apps in unknown locations, so the main screen stays unlocked. I figure the longer they can play with the phone on the more likely I am to get it back.
Sms of course to trigger by minute pics and GPS.
rangercaptain said:
Yeah, there's no criminals in "nice" neighborhoods.
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Click to collapse
sure there is; thats where they go to steal stuff!
I havent even gotten the phone yet, it's in the mail. Thankfully i came in here to read and now i know to block ota if i want any hope of getting root.
But it leaves me wondering why do they hate rooting so much? Wireless tether is legal on Verizon and most anything else i can think of would hurt google and app devs before verizon...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
it's not just verizon. the sprint s4 has the same going on. at least according to someone i know that has one. it supposedly has something to do with the knox crap and possibly the lojack stuff they're trying to add to the phones.
i haven't bothered to confirm any of this. just got it from a bit of skimming. work's picking up a bit so i haven't been able to read as much.
It is all about security. Rooted phones do not work well with secure environments. I mean if you really think about it. With the right set up any app can be given root permissions without the user even knowing.
Wayne Tech Nexus
It also voids warranty. If I were selling a product and the consumer rendered the device useless through mods and what have you, I wouldnt want to warranty it either. One of many reasons.
SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
Macknzie said:
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
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Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
zelendel said:
Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
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Very true, and it's pretty clear from the name that you're getting something different.
It also presents a problem with technical support. A standardized system is far easier to troubleshoot than one wroth dozens of unknown variables.
Also, the OP is only partially correct regarding wireless tether. While Verizon cannot block users from using third party tether apps, they also have the FCC's explicit blessing to require a separate tethering fee for unlimited plan holders
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
HTC lets you unlock the bootloader via a code on their website specific for the individual phone's serial number. One clicks to waive the warranty to get the unlock code, and anyone can boot the phone into bootloader mode to see "unlocked" or "tampered" displayed. That means no warranty.
Verizon was OK with it for HTC phones.
$$$$
Its all about the money they lose so much money as a company.. even though they make billions monthly they still are all about making the consumers pay more
For the s4 its all about security. Samsung is trying to get into the corporate phone market. They released this new locked down bootloader to make companies feel all warm and fuzy. My company allows me to access my work email on my phone but to do so I have to have the phone encrypted with no root.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
onfigTr which
help...
Verizon Blocks Users from Root
Yeah, I'm having that issue myself. I have rooted my previous devices but just purchased a Motorola Turbo from VZW which is LOADED with bloatware that won't go away. So, I thought I'd go the "decent" route and see if they may be nice in return and help me unlock my phone. Holy cow, you'd think I was trying to hack Fort Knox or the Fed! The Mod at the Verizon Community Website summarily deleted my question regarding this. Well, admittedly, I probably was stupid for doing that but, again, I thought I would be "nice" about it but they decided to get nasty and tried scaring me by tell me I was "in violation of FCC regulations and my terms of service" if I even attempted to root my device and he was going to "open an investigation into my "hacking" activities." Wow, talk about a Mod with delusions of god-hood! Okay, illegal to root MY phone, which I PAID for. So, I called VZW CS (I hate talking) and explained my issue and got a complete dolt (as expected) who didn't have a clue even what the Verizon Community Website was...fact is, my only desire is to remove the damn bloat-ware, ads, etc. and increase the battery life. This phone has such potential and they lock it down to such extremes, it's really disappointing. Finally, I got fed up and asked for her supervisor, who was not much better. Supposedly, she is escalating this to Tier 3 Support. Permission to have root access to MY own phone. I was a sys admin for 25+ years and never had to ask permission for root access for my computers...
Suggestions?
qballrail said:
Suggestions?
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Buy a Nexus 6p or 5x.
A little late for that.
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
qballrail said:
A little late for that.
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No. They're still being sold.
mike.s said:
No. They're still being sold.
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You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
XxD34THxX said:
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
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From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
Verizon is evil. I have a Galaxy Note Pro from them that I can't even put linux on due to the locked bootloader and kernel without chroot. It's a sad state of affairs. The government should have laws for giving consumers rights to use their devices as they wish
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
qballrail said:
You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfCtvYawVc
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
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I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
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I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
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Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.