I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend here, he is convinced that TouchWiz and Sense are not ROMs
However I think they are.
Who is correct on this one?
Thanks!
They are NOT ROMs. They never were. Both started as Samsung's and HTC's themes which replaced Android's default theme. Now, they are fully fledged UI and framework running atop (and thus replacing) Android's default (Holo/Material) theme and UI.
More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TouchWiz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Sense
(PS: Anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong)
Think of them as different distros of Linux. At the base they are the same thing but still have their own separate base system files.
zelendel said:
Think of them as different distros of Linux. At the base they are the same thing but still have their own separate base system files.
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Aren't they more like a graphical environments? For example, you can install multiple graphical environments on one distro (unity, gnome, kde, etc.).
usblaidas said:
Aren't they more like a graphical environments? For example, you can install multiple graphical environments on one distro (unity, gnome, kde, etc.).
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No because unlike a graphical environment you can't remove it and keep all the features offered by the hardware. . Take Sense/Touchwiz/ or what ever one you know and compare it to aosp. You lose hardware options. Which wouldn't happen if it was all graphical. Not only do they change the looks of it. They also rebuild alot of the base OS files with their own versions. So it is more a distro then just a graphical environment
Related
So if this is a stupid question - please be kind.
It seems the Prime has the power to run the full Java instead of the phone based version.
I noticed this the other day when I was trying to run a java video app from within BlackBoard for one of my assignments. I just get a bunch of symbols at the top of the frame and it extends the screen endlessly to the right.
So is adding the full java something that can be done in a new firmware update or be a part of a rooting package of the future? It sure would be nice to take advantage of the power of this tablet by adding the upgraded java.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I crazy?
Dalvik is a full JVM, it's just that Android doesn't implement a lot of the Java libraries dedicated to writing desktop apps. It might not be too much work to get, e.g., hidden Java applets running. It would be a lot of work to get Java applications with graphical interfaces working.
I think it'd be cool to run a Minecraft server off my tablet... but that's just me.
Noxious Ninja said:
Dalvik is a full JVM, it's just that Android doesn't implement a lot of the Java libraries dedicated to writing desktop apps. It might not be too much work to get, e.g., hidden Java applets running. It would be a lot of work to get Java applications with graphical interfaces working.
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But this tablet has the horsepower to run it if it were done, correct? I'm just thinking quad core tablet- a GB of ram. Seems like a ripe apple for the developers to add something a little more tricked out in the software now that there is hardware that would support it.
Of course I am not a developer, but my understanding is java is scaled back due to hardware limitations. The Prime is a beast of a tablet. What would it take for this to happen?
redraider II said:
What would it take for this to happen?
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A lot of time and money? Months of work at an absolute minimum. I don't know all the missing APIs, but at least pretty much all the graphics stuff from desktop Java is missing on Android.
Noxious Ninja said:
A lot of time and money? Months of work at an absolute minimum. I don't know all the missing APIs, but at least pretty much all the graphics stuff from desktop Java is missing on Android.
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Oh crap. Well..... I suppose that hope just went out the window.
I am happy with the Prime as it is. I was just curious about the possibilities of taking it to the next level java wise now that there are devices capable of running it.
I see you are in SA, Noxious. I'm just up the road in Austin. Have to come down there every other month or so to Methodist Transplant hospital. Had a liver transplant almost 5 years ago now. Graduated from Judson.
Thanks for your replies.
RedRaider II
You can run Java SE and even a JDK but you lose Android integration. Example: I have JRE/JDK and most of the Android SDK running on mine, in a Debian chroot. All I am missing seems to be a couple x86 C/C++ programs that I don't know where to find the source for, otherwise I could get them ported to ARM and do Android development on my tablet with the usual build system (not what terminal ide does).
But note that if you want to do GUI crap in Java, like AWT/Swing/JWT, then you need the x11/vnc stuff or to push the built code to another machine you can remote into. Running headless Java code is also possible via dalvik (just like the Android SDK does for what goes into .apk files) in some cases but I would not want to test complicated parts of core libs and classpath dancing.
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Run Linux (ARMel or ARMhf) OS ontop of Android and run "ARM_Linux_Moder" from the following link after cloning it to the Linux file system
https://github.com/S0AndS0/Debian-Kit-Mods
Full directions are in readme file and I've a guide on xda and google docs to set up Linux on Android using Debian Kit.
Currently you can run JDK hard or soft float on Android and run almost any .jar file or java program that runs on PC Linux OS's using the scripts provided and install Java dependent software I've tested and scripted installers for.
I'll be working on Android SDK and NDK soon.
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Khyrdantai said:
I think it'd be cool to run a Minecraft server off my tablet... but that's just me.
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I think it would be great too
Hello All,
My question is whether the reverse-engineering of iOS's API is being looked at as an option any time soon. I would be interested in something similar to Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator), which is a reverse engineering of the Win32API and allows you to run Windows .exe files natively in Linux or Mac OS. I am aware of iEmu (and it's unfortunate suspension).
However, my interest is not in getting iOS itself running on my phone, but instead I would like to run the apps themselves. I'm pretty sure there isn't currently a project on this. If there is, can you inform me of it?
If there is not, I would like to discuss the difficulty of implementing this. I could definitely be an aid in starting a project of ths nature.
Here are some things about iOS's apps I am unfamiliar with (I am aware that this specific section of the post may be more fit for the iOS forum):
Does the Obj-C code compiled for iOS resemble native ARM code (the iPhone chips are ARM to the best of my knowledge), like how C++ would be compiled, or does it resemble something more like C# or Java, compiled into bytecode that is executed by a library?
Compared to the size of the .NET framework or Win32API, how big is the iOS library?
Has a successful program been created that can run Obj-C code?
Would this have to be worked from the ground up (figuring out how Obj-C compiles in the first place), or has there been some effort already mounted similar to this?
I am aware of the extreme difficulty in implementing this. However, I'm sure this was thought while planning Wine or Mono. I'm not even suggesting this be made, but I'm simply asking on your opinion on the general difficulty (can it be done).
Thank you,
- κυριακος
kupiakos42 said:
Hello All,
My question is whether the reverse-engineering of iOS's API is being looked at as an option any time soon. I would be interested in something similar to Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator), which is a reverse engineering of the Win32API and allows you to run Windows .exe files natively in Linux or Mac OS. I am aware of iEmu (and it's unfortunate suspension).
However, my interest is not in getting iOS itself running on my phone, but instead I would like to run the apps themselves. I'm pretty sure there isn't currently a project on this. If there is, can you inform me of it?
If there is not, I would like to discuss the difficulty of implementing this. I could definitely be an aid in starting a project of ths nature.
Here are some things about iOS's apps I am unfamiliar with (I am aware that this specific section of the post may be more fit for the iOS forum):
Does the Obj-C code compiled for iOS resemble native ARM code (the iPhone chips are ARM to the best of my knowledge), like how C++ would be compiled, or does it resemble something more like C# or Java, compiled into bytecode that is executed by a library?
Compared to the size of the .NET framework or Win32API, how big is the iOS library?
Has a successful program been created that can run Obj-C code?
Would this have to be worked from the ground up (figuring out how Obj-C compiles in the first place), or has there been some effort already mounted similar to this?
I am aware of the extreme difficulty in implementing this. However, I'm sure this was thought while planning Wine or Mono. I'm not even suggesting this be made, but I'm simply asking on your opinion on the general difficulty (can it be done).
Thank you,
- κυριακος
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey and welcome to the forum's I would like to know this as well but I do not know any project and any that gets started and gains popularity gets chased down by Apple's legal team quite quickly. I have my doubts that this could happen (I would be glad if someone could prove me wrong) because iOS and its apps work on 12 devices and Android has hundreds of devices, most with different hardware. Windows apps are built for variable hardware, likewise with Linux and now Mac OS X. Sorry but as much of a pessimist as I seem I do not think it's possible but I'd love to be proven wrong. (Can someone at least make a frigging Windows Mobile runtime)
Hi there! I was curious as to the ROM developer workflow. I'm somewhat familiar with building AOSP for x86 VMs and have done some skinning and manipulating system apk's ... but I have some other questions:
1. What distinguishes a ROM package from other zip installers, I guess since it is *nix, everything's a file and most ZIPs then just have the files changed?
2. Jokersax makes mention of doing all development on the device itself... What this workflow, just doing a lot of nandroid backups then, or just replacing things on the fly and hoping for the best?
3. What options exist for adapting system level native code, perhaps I guess I'm asking if, for instance, the camera works with Blur stock SBFs, how could one go disassembling the functionality and deriving CM9 compatible packages? Are the drivers that tightly coupled with the UI elements? That would seem impossible to maintain, and say what you want about Motorola, I couldn't imagine this to be the case.
Thanks -ap
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antipasto said:
Hi there! I was curious as to the ROM developer workflow. I'm somewhat familiar with building AOSP for x86 VMs and have done some skinning and manipulating system apk's ... but I have some other questions:
1. What distinguishes a ROM package from other zip installers, I guess since it is *nix, everything's a file and most ZIPs then just have the files changed?
2. Jokersax makes mention of doing all development on the device itself... What this workflow, just doing a lot of nandroid backups then, or just replacing things on the fly and hoping for the best?
3. What options exist for adapting system level native code, perhaps I guess I'm asking if, for instance, the camera works with Blur stock SBFs, how could one go disassembling the functionality and deriving CM9 compatible packages? Are the drivers that tightly coupled with the UI elements? That would seem impossible to maintain, and say what you want about Motorola, I couldn't imagine this to be the case.
Thanks -ap
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Click to collapse
1) You are pretty much correct....and rom can be turned into a simple one file zip or vice versa
2) He actually uses the device along with a build machine. You can do some simple stuff on the device itself, but if you're going to get into decompiling jars or apks, you will need a bot or a PC.
3) Apktool (Linux/Windows) or Android Suite (Windows) will allow you to break down the apks like you are describing. I'm sure you can make a blur apk work with CM9 (obviously app developers on the Play market do manage to make both). I'm not very familiar with Blur/CM7, as I started work on ROMs after ICS had hit, and I really didn't see much real desire to do something that wasn't forward from where my phone was.
Mainly, you can do source work, which you are most likely familiar with the process of.
I do "port" work...taking the framework, apps and some other necessary functionality-related parts and making a new rom for my device with it.
If you are interested in the process, by all means get in touch with me via PM. We are in need of some people to help with a void that has been left by our team member Spleef taking on a second job.
Thank you so much for the extensive reply. I have about a kabillion personal projects, it would be perhaps interesting to ruminate some on the metadevelopment as it were, I do notice that the Cyanogen project seems to have a lot more ability to automate their workflows, it would be cool to try and get more people into those kinds of logistics to help out... Anyway, I'm trying to remain productive, I'm a long time lurker, and I can't bring myself to post unnecessarily to even get to the 10 posts I need to provide feedback in the development forums, but I'll try
I've been really inspired with the Clojure / Java community, especially "Leiningen" and things like Jenkins for continuous integration. Could be cool to try and think at this level, perhaps like a chrooted VM or something that enthusiasts could run to assist in build CPU times, or hell I dunno, this kind of thinking is all pie in the sky and is hell to set up possibly for little gain, although I'm encouraged that Bittorrent is being used a little more here and there perhaps to offload some of the hosting costs. FWIW I have used S3 in my own projects, and for various static sites I have, I've been hard pressed to pass 30 cents a month in hosting costs on S3, but this is all low traffic stuff and there's a lot of options out there with various kinds of advantages and disadvantages.
All in all, thank you all for your continued efforts, especially going into the later part of this year when JB will mature, and the possibility of ICS drivers being integrated. You guys rock!
Please I Want Blackberry Z10 Keyboard For Galaxy S3
Blackberry and android are very different os its not possible to port the keyboard you can only theme a keyboard with the blackberry z10 theme so that it looks like a blackberry keyboard
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nikhil18 said:
Blackberry and android are very different os its not possible to port the keyboard you can only theme a keyboard with the blackberry z10 theme so that it looks like a blackberry keyboard
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Click to collapse
I didn't think they were too dissimilar, the z10 is based upon unix and android upon linux, linux is a clone of unix. There will be differences but i would imagine the port process be easier in comparison to the likes of ios - android.
Just my thought's, nothing to back that up with really
i'm also interested =)
I second this!
dladz said:
I didn't think they were too dissimilar, the z10 is based upon unix and android upon linux, linux is a clone of unix. There will be differences but i would imagine the port process be easier in comparison to the likes of ios - android.
Just my thought's, nothing to back that up with really
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Click to collapse
Neither linux or unix use apk application packages. Android runs on the linux kernel but is quite different. If people can't port a sony xperia keyboard to the s3 due to framework dependencies, how realistic is porting the blackberry keyboard?
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rootSU said:
Neither linux or unix use apk application packages. Android runs on the linux kernel but is quite different. If people can't port a sony xperia keyboard to the s3 due to framework dependencies, how realistic is porting the blackberry keyboard?
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Did you even read my comment? easier in comparison to the likes of IOS ??
dladz said:
Did you even read my comment?
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I did yes. I actually quoted it in my last post.
dladz said:
easier in comparison to the likes of IOS ??
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But since both are impossible, how could any one be easier?
Also, since iOS is also Unix based, why would any one be easier? What is the technical reasoning behind why porting from one Unix system to a linux-kernel based system would be easier that porting from another Unix system to a linux-kernel based system?
Added to which, they're both closed source. ...and Unix is not Linux as much as Linux is a "clone" of Unix. Although we can run linux commands in Android and there are some vague similarities to Linux in the OS, it still is not linux. There has been some amazing work to compile linux libraries and applications to Android, but 98% of Linux stuff as yet, can still not be ported to Android, so porting Unix is kind of a moot point right now.
rootSU said:
I did yes. I actually quoted it in my last post.
But since both are impossible, how could any one be easier?
Also, since iOS is also Unix based, why would any one be easier? What is the technical reasoning behind why porting from one Unix system to a linux-kernel based system would be easier that porting from another Unix system to a linux-kernel based system?
Added to which, they're both closed source. ...and Unix is not Linux as much as Linux is a "clone" of Unix. Although we can run linux commands in Android and there are some vague similarities to Linux in the OS, it still is not linux. There has been some amazing work to compile linux libraries and applications to Android, but 98% of Linux stuff as yet, can still not be ported to Android, so porting Unix is kind of a moot point right now.
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it has nothing to do with linux or unix
android kernel is only linux nothing else.it only depend on application package android apps are apk and blackberry apps are .bar
only we need to do is we have to reveal its source and then do edits and pack it as apk
pradeepxtremehacker said:
it has nothing to do with linux or unix
android kernel is only linux nothing else.it only depend on application package android apps are apk and blackberry apps are .bar
only we need to do is we have to reveal its source and then do edits and pack it as apk
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Click to collapse
Good luck!
Was just wondering, can either Dalvik or ART be emulated/virtualized on Ubuntu Touch just enough to give it a base to run android apps on? from what i understand, i guess this will have to be done with either QML or HTML5.. i can code in both of them but would need help with the Dalvik or ART part... Any ideas/suggestions?
In theory it might work but have a look at this recent Google Plus comment by a Canonical employee (@mhall119):
we're not going to support running Android code on Ubuntu, it would be impossible to do it well, less alone perfectly. You can run standard Java code by packaging the JRE like Alan suggested, but there's usually going to be a C++ or Javascript alternative library for whatever you used in Java, and that would make for a better app.
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Source: https://plus.google.com/+MichaelHall119/posts/aPPVcxM29fe (highlighting by me)
Additionally, I don't think that Android apps would look good on Ubuntu Touch. The design is completely different.
If you have a look at the link above, you'll see that he is currently working on a way to convert Android xml files to qml though. That will make it easier for developers to make the switch.
Once Ubuntu Touch hits more of the main light I would assume Android Compatibility Layer would be ported. It works well on the HP Touchpad with webOS. And its easy to root ACL.
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