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OK I was a little harsh when I sent this to T-Mobile this morning, bad day, but it does reflect my feeling about T-Mobile’s attitude towards its business customers.
I will of course be flashing my phone with a ROM from this sight but when I visit clients and they comment on my phone I shouldn’t need to tell them that they can only use the phone with all it’s features if they burn the warranty... We are seeing quite a few clients make the transition to Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 so telling them that to open files on their phone they must stick to saving files in 2003 mode and that they will not notice many improvements on their phone using WM5 and Exchange 2007 (only real benefits are administrative) is totally unacceptable and will mean that both T-Mobile and HTC lose out as we will be recommending the i-mate Ultimate range of phones in future (anyone have a good supplier?)
Good morning, I have just been informed by a colleague that whilst I was led to believe that a Windows Mobile 6 update for both my Ameo and Vario 2 were imminent, T-Mobile UK has now decided that it's business customers do not require the advantages offered by this upgrade and that having just invested a not insignificant amount of money in a new phone I will have no choice but to void the warranty in order to get the upgrade that other colleagues in other countries will receive from T-Mobile direct! Might I suggest that if you are unwilling to provide this upgrade you at least extend the warranty to cover the upgrade released by HTC as without this concession I will find it very hard to justify renewing my contract with T-Mobile UK in 18 months when it expires! Nor will I be able to continue recommending T-Mobile to my clients. As a VAR and IT Managed Services provider I often recommend to clients their next phone upgrade to be integrated with their Exchange servers, I am now installing Exchange 2007 which specifically takes advantage of new features added in Windows Mobile 6 not to mention continued compatibility with Microsoft Office 2007. The AMEO is one of your flagship corporate products to treat your customers with such disregard is unacceptable!
“Hello Martyn
Thanks for taking the time to contact me regarding Windows Mobile 6 and T-Mobile Uk's decision to not to release the software download for existing devises. I can understand how disappointed you must be with this decision especially if you bought the Ameo in the hope that you?d be able to download this software in the future.
T-Mobile have decided to bringing in new MDA devices that make best use of the features of Windows Mobile 6 rather than rolling it out on existing devices that work perfectly well with Windows Mobile 5.
Unfortunately we?re not in a position to extend the warranty to cover the upgrade offered by HTC and I?d recommend you would have to take this up with HTC. We?re also advising customers that downloading this software from other locations could damage the handset and invalidate the warranty as it?s not designed for UK devises.
I?m sorry you?re unhappy with our decision on Windows Mobile 6 Martyn but we do feel that our customer still have full use of all the features on the devices with Mobile Windows 5.
Kind regards
Ami Usher
Business Customer Services
T-Mobile
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Wow, that really sucks. I guess they figured they already have your money and you are stuck in a contract with no other options. Also, they probably thinking you will forget about this soon before the 18 months and you will renew with them again when another device hit market within that time frame.
that is kinda sucky!, i upgraded mine to wm6 anyway so
F**K tmobile.
and you cant beat webnwalk plus for £3 a month which is what it costs me
I am a private customer but use my Ameo for work too - therefore I just wrote them this:
I have just heard that unlike ALL other carriers of the HTC X7500 (the phone from which the Ameo is cloned) , T-Mobile UK is not releasing a Windows Mobile 6 upgrade. Even the manufacturer is doing this which PROVES the device works well with WM6! The american version indeed comes with WM6 as standard. Why is T-mobile UK leaving customers of its FLAGSHIP telecommunications device without the latest software update which allows the latest integration with MS Office and Exchange server? It is outrageous to crippple a device which has only just been launched. Please explain as I am appaulled that you are not going to properly suppport this device. If the upgrade is available (which it is minus the T-mobile branding) then it shoudl be branded and offered to us. It feels like now you have got our money and tied us to a contract you no longer care. I was previously with O2 and they offered upgrades to many of their HTC devices as and when they were released by HTC. I require a definiitive answer on this matter as I am frankly disgusted.
I'll see what comes back! Blasted T-Mobile UK!
I think all of their customers with Athena started complaining (flood the gates with hate mail and e-mails), they probably would reconsider their decision.
Ithink you're taking slighty the wrong tack here.
A few people need to approach t-mob as if they were a Smb and looking to purchase several (say 30) devices that havw a seperate keyboard large scren etc and the ability to link with exchange 2007. Say that the ameo fits the bill perfectly and is available already in the US with WM6 and when would t-mob be offering it, as it would dictate whether said company was going to go with t-mob or o2!
Would be interesting to see the response.
Good idea - if they lie etc and say they will be releasing then we can use that as ammunition!
Seems like T-Mobile has no clue what they are talking about. WM6 is a vast improvement in every area over WM5 and the Athena didn't work perfectly under WM5 either. Furthermore, even the new devices coming out...including the iPhone...are no match for the Athena so to say that WM6 will be better or other devices will make better use of the WM6 features is totally ignorant.
I have T-Mobile in the US and haven't run into this problem. They are all willing to work with me. I've always had the latest phones and never had a problem getting support from the US team. I do help them a bit by breaking it down and letting them know that even though the phone is different, the OS is supported so I tell them not to get distracted by the fancy hardware. ;-)
I can't believe T-Mobile isn't releasing the WM6 update. Damn shame. They are just trying to save money.
They have any right under the european laws to refuse to relase an upgrade, but they DON'T have any right to say that your phone could be damaged
"We're also advising customers that downloading this software from other locations could damage the handset" bull***t!
THIS IS A STATEMENT FROM AN IDIOT!! Downloading this software from other location you will damage WHAT?
May be you could have problem INSTALLING, FLASHING, RUNNING but not just downloading from other location!
This is the T-Mobile UK average manager's knowledge? Good for the competitors!
Just had another pathetic reply from T-Mobile - cant uderstand what 'resources' they need anyway - they only put their crappy badging on it anyway! Anyway here it is:
[FONT="]Thank you for your response to Gemma's email. I'm sorry you're not happy with the answers you were given.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you rightly say there are numerous forums out there discussing devices, operating systems etc. People put their points of view their opinions and experiences. It may well be the case that many people have put the X750 1firmware successfully on their UK Ameos. There are also a number of cautionary tales from people who have bricked their device. [/FONT]
[FONT="]You are then in a position where you can make an informed decision and choose whether or not to upgrade to WM6. As Gemma said this could both damage the device and invalidate your warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As Gemma said T-Mobile have decided to use their resources to bring in new MDA devices developed on and preloaded with WM6 rather than rolling it out for existing devices. I don't believe it is about saving money but rather allocating the available resources for development purposes, there are finite resources available and the decision not to offer a WM6 upgrade will have been thought long and hard about. I can understand why you aren't happy with this decision on a personal level and I'm sorry about that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]HTC seem to be launching numerous devices currently and I'm sure that by the time your contract comes to an end there will be a viable alternative to your Ameo that perhaps better meet your needs and wants. Another option may be to try and find out whether HTC themselves will be releasing a WM6 ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are certainly not saying that we have your money and that is tough - you still have exactly the same device with the same specification and operating system that you originally decided on. If you would like to discuss this further my details are below (calls to this number are chargeable. Please check with your service provider for further details).[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for giving me the chance to address your points Mr Elphick. I hope you accept the reasoning behind our decision whilst I understand that you don?t necessarily agree with it. [/FONT]
these companies are pure rip off merchants don't expect anything else.
I get unlimted hSPDA in uk for 3 pounds per month . when I go abroad next week it will be 7.50 pounds PER MB!!
the govt has to stop these c**ts sooner or later
adamelphick said:
Just had another pathetic reply from T-Mobile - cant uderstand what 'resources' they need anyway - they only put their crappy badging on it anyway! Anyway here it is:
[FONT="]Thank you for your response to Gemma's email. I'm sorry you're not happy with the answers you were given.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you rightly say there are numerous forums out there discussing devices, operating systems etc. People put their points of view their opinions and experiences. It may well be the case that many people have put the X750 1firmware successfully on their UK Ameos. There are also a number of cautionary tales from people who have bricked their device. [/FONT]
[FONT="]You are then in a position where you can make an informed decision and choose whether or not to upgrade to WM6. As Gemma said this could both damage the device and invalidate your warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As Gemma said T-Mobile have decided to use their resources to bring in new MDA devices developed on and preloaded with WM6 rather than rolling it out for existing devices. I don't believe it is about saving money but rather allocating the available resources for development purposes, there are finite resources available and the decision not to offer a WM6 upgrade will have been thought long and hard about. I can understand why you aren't happy with this decision on a personal level and I'm sorry about that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]HTC seem to be launching numerous devices currently and I'm sure that by the time your contract comes to an end there will be a viable alternative to your Ameo that perhaps better meet your needs and wants. Another option may be to try and find out whether HTC themselves will be releasing a WM6 ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are certainly not saying that we have your money and that is tough - you still have exactly the same device with the same specification and operating system that you originally decided on. If you would like to discuss this further my details are below (calls to this number are chargeable. Please check with your service provider for further details).[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for giving me the chance to address your points Mr Elphick. I hope you accept the reasoning behind our decision whilst I understand that you don?t necessarily agree with it. [/FONT]
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...........................Good for HIM......................................
....................................!..................................................
........BANDIT................!............LEADER..........................
....................................!..................................................
Bad For ME-----------+-------------------Good For ME
................................... !..................................................
.............IDIOT..............!.............HERO.............................
....................................!..................................................
..........................Bad for HIM..........................................
This is a well known graphic in Bunsiness Schools.
It is used to help to judge a company, a person, a strategy,... analyzing the effects on HIM (or his company, ...) and also the effects on ME (or over my products,my Company,...)
Good for HIM, bad for YOU = They are BANDITS! Looking from another side, may be his strategy will be bad for him also, reducing sales.
Bad for HIM and bad for YOU = IDIOTS
Beware from BANDITS and from IDIOTS, also IDIOTS are the WORST force in the world, not even GOD can stops the stupidity!
You aren't loosing... anything? We are in a fast and competive business enviroment and if your company will move to exchange server 2007... your T-Mobile AMEO will be OUT (just to give him a simple example) IDIOTS !
if resources are the problem, not the money i would do it for them
I will suggest to send to him something about the importance of having an up to date software in the business environment, explaining the differences between PHONE and COMPUTER business.
ATHENA is part of the COMPUTER business and I have never seen a computer company refusing a major software update after less then one year for a new model.
May be they won't offer it for FREE, I could agree, but they could offer it for money...
Just give him the last chance to demonstate his stupidity, then prepare a petition, put it on line and post in every T-mobile UK phone forum your problem, their answers and ask for petition signing.
Update the 3d you opened in Uk with infos, news, jokes, the message coul be:
IS HAPPENING TO ME WITH ATHENA BUT THE NEXT COULD BE YOU WITH YOUR T-MOBILE DEVICE
Wrote to newspaper, to consumer associations, make a LOUD noise, using Internet Power, I've seen many success stories..., wait the end of summer, you will have more power, now the newspapers are full of... topless stories!
OK Guys, they are NOT going to back down! What do we do next? It's a disgrace!
Heres what they replied to me:
Thank you for your prompt response to my previous email. I apologise that you don't agree with T-Mobiles policy on upgrading your Ameo with WM6.
I suggested you check with HTC as an alternative means of finding the ROM update you want. I have however checked for you and the upgrade for your device will be available this month. As stated previously it is not something we at present support or offer .
You mentioned a possible problem with the case provided. Every fault report or warranty claim would be looked at on its own merits and it would be wrong of me to try and offer you a blanket answer to what is as yet a hypothetical question.
I do understand and appreciate that you are not being awkward as such. Is there anything that makes you say that T-Mobiles customer care regime does not in fact care? I'm sorry if any of your dealings with us have made you feel that way and I assure you that is not our intention.
I'm afraid I'm still not able to give you the answer you'd like. As you say the software will be widely available and as a consumer you can make an informed decision as to whether you wish to use it or not. At this stage we have no plans to support or officially offer it.
I can only repeat my previous point you still have the device you initially chose loaded with the operating system and running the same applications. I am sure you would have looked into the merits of the Ameo as compared to the alternatives available at the time and made your decision on the strength of that.
Thank you again for your email Mr Elphick and again for taking the time to let me know your views. I'm sorry that I'm still not able to give you the answer you would like.
adamelphick said:
OK Guys, they are NOT going to back down! What do we do next? It's a disgrace!
Heres what they replied to me:
Thank you for your prompt response to my previous email. I apologise that you don't agree with T-Mobiles policy on upgrading your Ameo with WM6.
I suggested you check with HTC as an alternative means of finding the ROM update you want. I have however checked for you and the upgrade for your device will be available this month. As stated previously it is not something we at present support or offer .
You mentioned a possible problem with the case provided. Every fault report or warranty claim would be looked at on its own merits and it would be wrong of me to try and offer you a blanket answer to what is as yet a hypothetical question.
I do understand and appreciate that you are not being awkward as such. Is there anything that makes you say that T-Mobiles customer care regime does not in fact care? I'm sorry if any of your dealings with us have made you feel that way and I assure you that is not our intention.
I'm afraid I'm still not able to give you the answer you'd like. As you say the software will be widely available and as a consumer you can make an informed decision as to whether you wish to use it or not. At this stage we have no plans to support or officially offer it.
I can only repeat my previous point you still have the device you initially chose loaded with the operating system and running the same applications. I am sure you would have looked into the merits of the Ameo as compared to the alternatives available at the time and made your decision on the strength of that.
Thank you again for your email Mr Elphick and again for taking the time to let me know your views. I'm sorry that I'm still not able to give you the answer you would like.
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In my understanding they changed something .... Now they said.."please use the HTC upgrade". This seems to me a big difference from the first statement..,"don't even try to modify the rom supplied".
Now you have material to make a loud noise all around internet about the lack of update support from T-Mobile. Wrote a petion and ask for signers, not only for AMEO but for all unsupported T-Mob UK devices
Following this thread from the start I can surely say that the initial good impression I had from T-Mobile has been severely tarnished.
I think their blatant lack of support and stupidity are going to be at the cost of business customers. Already I can't sync with my company server (if I had stayed on T-Mobile WM2005, but fortunately now on WM6 ROM from this site).
I for one will be fully supportive of any petition drawn up. If they don't change their tact, come upgrade time it will be byebye T-Mobile.
I am SHOCKED that anyone ever had a good opinion of T-Mobile !
The only people worse than T-Mobile are Phones4U.
A few years ago I bought a Tmob contract/phone from P4U. Not a good experience, it was broken out of the box, unusable. P4U refused to take it back despite being within 7 days of purchase, they wouldnt replace it and told me to go to TMob. TMob said it was P4U's problem, when I went back P4U told me it had been TOO LONG and said I should go to Carphone Warehouse as they do Nokia warantee Repairs.
It was 2 months before I had a working phone, I paid £200 to P4U for the phone and was paying monthly during this time, neither of them wanted to help me in any way.
I gave TMob a chance recently thinking maybe they had mended their ways, but to be honest, they are as bad as ever. I will never however buy from P4U again and suggest nobody else does either.
Pyrofer said:
I am SHOCKED that anyone ever had a good opinion of T-Mobile !
The only people worse than T-Mobile are Phones4U.
A few years ago I bought a Tmob contract/phone from P4U. Not a good experience, it was broken out of the box, unusable. P4U refused to take it back despite being within 7 days of purchase, they wouldnt replace it and told me to go to TMob. TMob said it was P4U's problem, when I went back P4U told me it had been TOO LONG and said I should go to Carphone Warehouse as they do Nokia warantee Repairs.
It was 2 months before I had a working phone, I paid £200 to P4U for the phone and was paying monthly during this time, neither of them wanted to help me in any way.
I gave TMob a chance recently thinking maybe they had mended their ways, but to be honest, they are as bad as ever. I will never however buy from P4U again and suggest nobody else does either.
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The issue you've posted has nothing to do with T-Mobile, it's all Phones4U. Phones4U are in a position where they don't supply T-Mobile stock handsets. They have their own stocks which they source independantly. Hence why their phones generally aren't branded and are supplied network unlocked.
T-Mobile will support you if the handset is "one of theirs". If it's a "SIM free" model then your support should come from your place of purchase.
Its amazing that a major telco can't be bothered to upgrade people to WM6. I suppose its best for them, as they've got no problems with bricked devices and it encourages upgrades from existing subscribers to new handsets at contract renewal time. When mine does become due (another year or so yet) I shall be cancelling my contract, and asked the reason why, I shall state that by not offering an upgrade we know they have (hence the leaked rom) that I believe them to be a profiteering supplier only interested in encoraging upgrades and not offering the support their customers demand.
I can understand why they don't do it, and on the whole, I like T-Mobile, but the sell and forget attitude smacks of poor customer service. Not that I think any other Telco is any better, but might as well spread my £££ around to whoevers doing the best deal at the time.
So, I was bored at work and started to notice the trolling going on at facebook/twitter about this bootloader unlocking issue. I decided to engage moto directly since they don't actually read fb or twitter comments and RT's. I got on a chat with someone from moto support and below is the transcript.....
Code:
Reza: Hi, my name is Reza. How may I help you?
jimbob: i have a question about my new droid x2.
Reza: Okay.
jimbob: is the bootloader unlockable like the xoom?
Reza: I apologize it is not.
jimbob: hmm...i'm assuming u guys actually look at the comments on your facebook page...
jimbob: lots of stink being thrown about this...do u guys have any data on when/if u will be allowing people to do what they want with the phones they pay money for?
jimbob: i know it's not your decision to make...just trying to get some information.
jimbob: i really liked my original droid 1 b/c i actually felt like I owned it...i like the x2 but motoblur is not a quality product IMHO.
Communication with the RightNow Chat service has been lost. Please wait while attempts are made to restore the connection.
Disconnection in 240 seconds.
Connection resumed.
Reza: Suggestion
Summary:
DROID X - Bootloader mode (eFuse)
Question:
Does the DROID X have eFuse, why does my handset power up in Bootloader recovery mode?
Answer:
Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader.
In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices for developers via MOTODEV at h t t p : / / d eveloper . motorola . com.
jimbob: Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats
jimbob: that may be true, but not with respect to the OS as a whole...no other android phone manufacturer does this.
jimbob: advocation of open platforms != locking technically savvy users out of their own device...
jimbob: so...is there a timeline at all on unlocking the bootloaders?
Communication with the RightNow Chat service has been lost. Please wait while attempts are made to restore the connection.
Disconnection in 240 seconds.
Connection resumed.
Reza: I apologize there is none. What we can do is to schedule the phone to be sent to our Repair Center.
jimbob: and what would that do?
Reza: Our trained technician will work on it.
jimbob: but, there's nothing physically wrong with the device...would they unlock the bootloader and give it back to me?
Reza: Right.
jimbob: really?
Reza: Really.
jimbob: lol...so, what would I do about a phone in the meantime?
Reza: Did you try to remove the battery and put it back in after a few minutes?
jimbob: no, the phone works fine....
Reza: I see.
jimbob: outside of it having a locked bootloader.
jimbob: and motoblur being buggy and awkward..
jimbob: what i'm saying is, if i sent the phone to the repair center so they could unlock the bootloader, what would I do for a phone during the 2 weekish period where u had the phone.
Communication with the RightNow Chat service has been lost. Please wait while attempts are made to restore the connection.
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Connection resumed.
Reza: When did you purchase it?
jimbob: a few days ago
Reza: To answer that, let me give two options.
Reza: Option 1: You can check with your service provider or place of purchase for options available.
Reza: Option 2: You can send the phone to Motorola Repair Center. Just send the phone by itself without any accessories like battery door, battery, sim card and memory card (if applicable). The timeframe is 5 to 7 business days from the time we receive the phone.
Reza: On our end, since we don't have the replacement program what we can do is fix it. You can try with your carrier if they offer loaner phones.
jimbob: hmm...interesting...I'll have to contemplate this a bit further. thanks so much for your input!
So, has anyone had a device with a locked bootloader sent in to have it unlocked before? 14 seconds of googling didn't yield much in the way of precedent for this. Comments?
I do not think the representative is understanding what you are asking. They think your phone is broke lol.
yea..I thought about hitting up another one just to see if they were all crazy. I might try that later.
If they were really taking phones in to have the bootloader unlocked and sending the phones back, their mailbox wouldn't be able to hold all the phones coming in.
The rep misunderstood you.
You probably were talking to some rep in India following a copy/past script.
I'm pretty sure she has no idea what she is talking about....does Motorola even have a tech support facility in America?
OPERATION: Make Ourselves Heard (#OPMOSH) 2.0
"Developer Edition"
DISCLAIMER:
We here, in the movement of #OPMOSH do not consider this spam, we do not consider this slandering Moto, we simply use this as a method of having our concerns heard. Motorola Mobility Inc. has been a powerful company that has been around for a very long time, and one we hope to see long in the future as well, before and after the Google buyout (which, might I add, is not completed). That being said...
Prologue:
Motorola Mobility Inc.'s executives and PR team have become famous for lying, having generally poor consumer relations, and amongst all, having a tendency to flat out prove time and time again that it cares very little for its customers after they walk out of that store with their shiny Motorola-branded device. It's definitely not hard to find examples of this - their refusal to upgrade devices that are fully capable of running the latest Android OS, the XOOM 4G upgrade fiasco, re-releasing phones with the same hardware but the most current OS (Defy/Defy+, anyone?), and even locking their bootloaders in the first place. Galaxy Nexus users around the world are laughing in our faces, now. But why is that?
Well, since the early days of Android, post Droid 1, we have (mostly) remained quiet about our locked bootloaders, hoping that one day Motorola would take a second glance at us, and follow other companies leads. The Droid X, the Droid 2, Droid 2 Global, Droid X2, Droid Bionic, and dozens more devices slid by with locked bootloaders, to the dismay of those wanting a long-term device like the Droid 1 was... There came to be a boiling point, though - and many, MANY full-out wars were launched on their social media sites, just a year ago. Sound familiar? Yes, the same thing that worked with HTC's (and now with Asus') bootloader policies.
At the end of the most successful campaign, known as the #UnlockMoto movement (which I extend my deepest gratitude towards everyone involved in), we received a broad, carefully worded announcement, via AusDroid, that unlockable bootloaders were being looked into. Flash forward to late 2011, and we're given another announcement, still quite broad, about the unlockable bootloaders... a "second half of 2011" timing for software releases, via MOTODEV.
...Welcome to Q1 2012, Motorola fans. Not only have they missed their deadline, and rogue-edited their blog post's timeframe for the bootloader unlock software rollout from the "second half of 2011" to "later this year", but they have actually given an official announcement of their plans... to release a completely separate HARDWARE version of the RAZR with an unlockable bootloader. This is unacceptable for those of us who dished out 700 dollars, full retail, to get our brand new Droid RAZR/Droid RAZR MAXX in hopes that they would eventually set free, and even MORE unacceptable for Droid 3, Bionic, and other Motorola users that don't even get an eyelash batted at. DOWNRIGHT UNACCEPTABLE. Basically... Motorola has screwed us over. Again.
But we here at #OPMOSH aren't done. Raise your voices - let's Make OurSelves Heard yet again, to let Moto know that this "Developer Edition" RAZR had better be available either as a trade for our devices, old or new, paying the difference in price, or not at all, since we all bought our devices in hopes that they would keep their word in the first place. Everyone counts!
Moto's Facebook - Moto's Twitter - Petition - FCC Complaints (Against Verizon)
So....What can I do?
Well, at this time, we don't know whether it is Verizon's or Motorola's decision that is causing all of these bootloader-related problems, so there's quite a few general things that you can do to help inch them along. The most important of them all would be to...
FIRST OFF, SIGN THE PETITION:
This is included in the email, so it is crucial that it continues to grow in number.
This petition is specifically worded so that they unlock their EXISTING bootloaders rather than releasing ~Developer's Editions~ of all of their phones. So much for their plans to not saturate the market with 9,000 phones in 2012, right?
Then....
TRY CALLING VERIZON'S EXECUTIVES.
Make sure before calling that you are very informed about the issue and confident in your position, yet can be quite calm. Do not show any disrespect towards Marie H or the person you call. They are merely the (wo)man-in-the-middle, and you simply need to explain to them your position and back it up with facts. Also, do note that all times are EST.
Call Marie H. at (412) 266-7756 on Monday - Fridays, 8 am to 5 pm. OR Michelle at (803) 231-1787 on Monday - Fridays, 7 am to 4 pm. OR Call Verizon customer service at *611 or (800) 922-0204 and get to a rep by mashing 0.
This is something you cannot copy-paste, unfortunately. Here are some guidelines that should help you be successful in your endeavor:
- First off, if you get the voicemail, leave your name, number, and a time you can be contacted in case they wish to follow-up call.
- Mention that many are filing FCC complaints because locking smartphone bootloaders prevents users from installing the software that they want (the OS), and thus violates Block C guidelines. (Do research in case this is brought into question)
- Mention that HTC, Motorola, and Samsung have bootloader-unlockable devices on the network right now, so there's no legitimate reason to be selling a totally new device... (HTC has their 2011 devices, Moto has the Xoom, and Samsung the Galaxy Nexus)
- Mention that the bootloader being unlocked does not allow the device to do anything that a laptop that is using a 4G hotspot cannot do even faster/more efficiently, including hogging network resources.
- Mention that the bootloaders being FORCE locked (as in, not unlockable) does not offer protection from any present viruses or attacks of Android devices.
- Mention also that unlocking the bootloaders could very well use a system like HTC uses - which stores the IMEI of the device and voids its software warranty indefinitely, making Verizon's warranty services not liable for what a user installs on their device.
- Close your talk/voicemail by stating the number of signatures on the petition, currently well over 5,000, and saying that this is a widespread concern of many users, that wish Android to be truly open.
- Say thank you before you hang up, it'll really give off a good impression.
Also, you could...
TRY AN FCC COMPLAINT:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
Select Wireless Telephone > Billing, Service, Privacy, Number Portability and other issues > Online Form. Fill out your information, scroll down, fill out 1 and 2, skip 3 and 4. Then in 5:
- Tell the FCC that your phone’s bootloader was sold to you locked, preventing the regulatory requirement of BLOCK C Devices (MAKE SURE TO MENTION BLOCK C!!!) that "Consumers should be able to download and utilize any software applications, content, or services they desire" - make sure to cite that.
- Also helpful would be dispelling the "Reasonable network management" exclusion. Tell the FCC that Verizon allows tethering of unauthorized devices to 4G LTE services through their mobile hotspots and their paid phone tethering functionality as-is, ones that are more bandwidth-hungry and also permit installing custom operating systems, and have a potential of doing significantly more damage, such as laptops.
If you don't want to write yours up manually, we will have a pre-made step 5 that you can just copy paste soon, hopefully.
Don't forget to...
TRY EMAILING:
TO: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
To Whom It May Concern,
Motorola, please, we beg of you to hear us out. We bought your devices faithfully, some of us standing in line, some of us saving our hard-earned money for weeks, for months, because we were so excited to get our hands on this shiny new piece of technology, be it the Droid 3, the RAZR, the Droid RAZR, the Bionic, the Atrix 4G... Even the Droid X, Droid 2, Milestone, and other users. We were aching to do the impossible with it - to break records with unparalleled speed, to optimize, to customize. To shun those who didn't believe in you delivering on your promise to unlock the full potential for your well-constructed devices, Motorola. We've been faithfully waiting.
And waiting, and waiting. Until today, when you delivered the announcement of the Motorola RAZR Developer's Edition. And unfortunately, this is not like the XOOM's 4G upgrade, where users could send in their already purchased devices - no. This is a completely new device. There is zero compensation or consideration for those of us who already have Motorola-branded phones in our hands.
Motorola.... We Droid RAZR users... We Atrix 4G users... We Droid Bionic users... Even we Droid RAZR MAXX users that got our phones less than a week ago... What about us, Motorola? You gave us your word. It was a tipping decision for a lot of your buyers that purchased the Droid RAZR, to know that we would be a part of history, having the very first Motorola device with an unlockable bootloader. Why did you alienate us? You saw all of our petitions, and this announcement seems a lot like a one-trick pony, something that will start here, not sell well (because we've already purchased the exact same phone and aren't financially able to purchase another), and never happen again. Will there ever be a consumer device that also doubles as a treat for the enthusiasts, like the Transformer Prime? Or any of HTC's devices? As faithful customers, we've been faithfully waiting.
This is like a slap in the face to every buyer of your high-end phones. We very much do appreciate that you're trying, but this is not the solution you need, or that we need. At least not in its current form. Please put your foot down firmly. If Verizon is causing this, you do have the ability to change it. Nexus devices changed it. HTC changed it.
Honor your core demographic, the Android enthusiasts, and unlock your devices. If not the ones you've already released, then all in the future. 2012 is an important year for all of us. Please.
Sincerely,
One of the over 15,000 people represented by the internet petitions listed below.
http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Or...
TRY TWEETING:
Really, @Motorola? I don't see any mention of a "Developer's Edition". http://moto.ly/icsboot #OPMOSH2
Or even...
TRY POSTING ON THEIR FACEBOOK WALL:
I'm fairly sure a "Developer's Edition" of the same phone isn't a "software release", Motorola. Give us a break. http://moto.ly/icsboot
But above all...
MAKE SURE TO SIGN THE PETITION!!
It is the backbone of this movement. We need as many signatures as possible.
We NEED to be heard to get anywhere. Spread the word to your Facebook friends, your Twitter friends, your Google Talk friends, your Google+ friends, your favorite Android news site, local newspaper, lawyers... Spread the word! Bring freedom to the Android ecosystem, like Andy Rubin and Rich Miner intended.
Thank you SO much for your support. This community is amazing and I know our endeavors will come to fruition soon. See you on Moto's Facebook!
Already started! Been spamming facebook for two days...
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
con5tant said:
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
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If they don't push for it but rather propose the idea lightly, we're not going to get anywhere. HTC and Samsung (w/ the help of google) did it, so can Moto.
Plus, they promised the second half of 2011, and they haven't started in any market anywhere, internationally or state-side.
And hey, the voice of the people just got Verizon to rethink its $2 convenience fee.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
The voice of the people is what got us that announcement in the first place. Go!
The bootloaders will be unlocked with ICS this has been comfirmed by a VZW employee but the release date for ICS is still up in the air
hoag50 said:
The bootloaders will be unlocked with ICS this has been comfirmed by a VZW employee but the release date for ICS is still up in the air
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Click to collapse
Is this the same employee that told us the nexus would come out on december eighth?
Time for my daily motorola facebook spam.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
seanmcd72 said:
Is this the same employee that told us the nexus would come out on december eighth?
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Yeah seriously if it's not an executive it means nothing, and an executive would never just announce something like that casually.
con5tant said:
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
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Thats already been proven as a BS excuse from Moto. HTC unlocked their bootloaders on VZW's phones.
Just post this over and over on their facebook wall.
“In terms of your question – we completely understand the operator requirement for security to the end user, and as well, want to support the developer communities desire to use these products as a development platform. It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it.”
HTC was allowed by Verizon Wireless to unlock the HTC Thunderbolt, your excuses are invalid now Moto!
Start a petition at http://www.change.org like the one that just made Verizon change the $2 fee....
mattlgroff said:
Just post this over and over on their facebook wall.
“In terms of your question – we completely understand the operator requirement for security to the end user, and as well, want to support the developer communities desire to use these products as a development platform. It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it.”
HTC was allowed by Verizon Wireless to unlock the HTC Thunderbolt, your excuses are invalid now Moto!
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hmm....late 2011....seems like that has come and gone now.
I'm not entirely sure why people are touting your excuses are now invalid based on HTC unlocking their bootloaders. It's not like Motorola and HTC are going to have identical contracts with Verizon
HTC and Samsung were able to pull it off. I highly highly doubt their contract even brushes against the bootloaders at all, anyway.
What if moto is just hiding behind the carriers to never unlock them. Yes others have done it and to me it doesn't that hard to convince a carrier, unless of course you're not trying too hard. We can all move onto other devices but really what's the ratio of us hardcore users vs those that don't even know what a bootloader is. We can spam their social pages I guess but even there you're getting resistance from regular users who aren't in our hardcore world standing up for moto thinking they are the greatest thing since slice bread. But hey, if we don't try who's going to.
Asus felt the heat, now it's time we step our game up on Moto. Can someone repost this wherever possible (X, X2, Bionic, Xyboard, Atrix 2, Rootz, Droidforums, etc. Forums) and link back to this thread so we stay organized, and we'll launch a full out war against Moto for their lies. Go!
(Also feel free to click Submit this Thread as a News Tip at the top right thanks ok)
If anything, it should be easier for Moto to do this than for HTC or Samsung, since Moto devices carry Verizon's Android experience. Not that the HTC and Sammy phones are bad or worse, but phones like the Droid, Droid X, Droid 2, Droid Bionic, Droid RAZR, etc. are the flagship phones for Verizon. If anything, Verizon has more onus to be harsh with HTC and Samsung over Motorola (Bing as default comes to mind).
They already have the phone-side software there on the newer models, we're just waiting for them to flip the switch on "fastboot oem unlock" to allow. That's literally it. It's stupidly easy. Keep going!
I just called Verizon about their rooting and ROM flashing policy. Apparently, if you root the phone, the fraud department will lock your phone, and if you flash the phone, you won't be able to use it on Verizon networks.
Does this sound right? I have the funny feeling that my question may have flown over some heads and someone may have given me a BS answer but I wanted to make sure nonetheless...
-Feuerhund
Feuerhund said:
I just called Verizon about their rooting and ROM flashing policy. Apparently, if you root the phone, the fraud department will lock your phone, and if you flash the phone, you won't be able to use it on Verizon networks.
Does this sound right? I have the funny feeling that my question may have flown over some heads and someone may have given me a BS answer but I wanted to make sure nonetheless...
-Feuerhund
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It would void your warranty, if they were to find out but there is no way they could "lock" your phone and neither does installing a (properly working) rom stop your ability to access VZW's network. There is no way they would or could know unless you were to take your phone in to the store while customized and even then, they couldn't lock your phone or stop you from using it - you would just not be able to use a warranty claim on it. Often times, on many phones, there is a way to reset / restore the phone so only the most experienced tech could tell, if at all (depends on the phone and update it's on). I mean, this myth is easily debunked by the tons of forums for VZW phones right here @ xda where 10s of 1000s of VZW users have upgraded their phone with custom roms and all that.
es0tericcha0s said:
It would void your warranty, if they were to find out but there is no way they could "lock" your phone and neither does installing a (properly working) rom stop your ability to access VZW's network. There is no way they would or could know unless you were to take your phone in to the store while customized and even then, they couldn't lock your phone or stop you from using it - you would just not be able to use a warranty claim on it. Often times, on many phones, there is a way to reset / restore the phone so only the most experienced tech could tell, if at all (depends on the phone and update it's on). I mean, this myth is easily debunked by the tons of forums for VZW phones right here @ xda where 10s of 1000s of VZW users have upgraded their phone with custom roms and all that.
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I asked Verizon, and here is what they said:
Verizon said:
Verizon Wireless has the right to, without notice, limit, suspend or end your service or any agreement with you for this or any other good cause including, but not limited to: if you breach the customer agreement, lie to us, allow anyone to tamper with your phone; or interfere with our operation, modify your phone from its manufacturer's specification or use the service in a way that adversely affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit, suspend, or end your service for any operation or government reason.
Rooting, unlocking, and flashing a Verizon Wireless phone is in violation of the terms and conditions that were agreed upon activation of your prepaid service. You can find this information by clicking on or copying the following link into your browser: [link deleted because lol forum law]
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So apparently they do reserve the right to shut you down for this. I'm rather worried that this could actually happen... but maybe I shouldn't be. But what with them having their own software on the phone, would it be so hard for them to have a little program on there that pings Verizon when a phone gets altered and gives them a killswitch? Maybe the users here are just lucky and I'll be the unlucky one... idk.
-Feuerhund
You do realize that there are dozens of VZW forums here where 10s of 1000s of users have rooted / customized their phones, right? Including many phones that VZW had the manufacturer lock the bootloader on. For HTCs, if you unlock your bootloader at their dev website, they have a record of which phones have or have not been unlocked and even with that info, have never seen a report of anyone being denied service. They have absolutely NO way to tell if you phone has been modded without looking at the phone, and even then, they will not stop your services. I have modded dozens of VZW phones for friends and customers and have never had a return or have any issues in that regard.
is there a list of phone manufacturers that allow unlocking and ones that don't?
(and if there is variance between devices from manufacturers, then a list of devices?)
Thanks
gardina said:
is there a list of phone manufacturers that allow unlocking and ones that don't?
(and if there is variance between devices from manufacturers, then a list of devices?)
Thanks
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Click to collapse
yea it goes like this:
Huawei---> can't unlock
EVery other frickin' phone manifacturer --> can unlock, sometimes it's hard, but u can
More seriously, atm every phone that I know of can be unlocked. Samsung is making it complicated, but still. The only OEM I know that locks down the phone is Huawei.
With the manufacturer "Oppo"(another chinese company like huwaei), at least some oppo phones can't be unlocked. See my post #36 https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/oppo-a9-2020-rooting.4003265/page-2
How are Samsung making it hard?
Samsung has locked bootloaders on - many - if not all usa snapdragon phones and if you buy one of them the only way to get it unlocked is by finding some random person on the internet who has the samsung proprietary toolkit and pay him/her $100 - $150 to have them modify it so you can get oem unlock.
Samsung - in the usa - doesnt want you removing bloatware, blocking adds or doing what you want with your phone... or perhaps its the carriers themselves who are all mandating this... unknown to me; aside from the fact that I've bought four samsung phones in recent months trying to unlock and learning that I've wasted my cash...
plus I hear the Quallcom secureboot is an issue here as well - though I'm a noob when it comes to this I only have conceptual level knowledge.
SAME applies to some Motorola devices - a company that used to almost be guaranteed easy to unlock.. last few devices I've gotten from them are impossible to root and change the OS.
Same applies to EVERY device sold on the Verizon network.
You want an unlocked phone?
Get one that advertises it proudly like this - https://www.fxtec.com/ Android - lineage - sailfish are options.