Seems the Galaxy Note7 uses PWM
It's a shame, because my (and some other peoples) eyes are too damaged to handle screens that have PWM (nearly all)
I wish Samsung would really do something about this once and for all, maybe have a hidden option to disabled PWM that is activated with those dialer codes, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=131&v=SzCgp-FEU50 (skip to 2:10)
http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...s615b/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-7-Weibo-leaks-1.jpg
what is PWM... excuse my ignorance
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Diaconescu_Tiberiu said:
what is PWM... excuse my ignorance
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it stands for Pulse Width Modulation.... Basically it causes the displays to have a slight flicker to them at lower brightness settings as the display is switched on and off very rapidly.
Pretty sure PWM isn't something that can be turned on or off via software - it's how the display controller manages brightness levels.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
It can be controlled (diminishing its effects) via Lux Dash app
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Diaconescu_Tiberiu said:
It can be controlled (diminishing its effects) via Lux Dash app
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Tiberiu,
I'm also interested in a solution to pwm, how can this app mitigate the effect of the flickering ?
Unfortunately Pwm cannot be 'turned off' except possibly by having the display at full brightness all the time. Any reduction in brightness uses PWM.
Every LED screen and light is dimmed by PWM in any product on the market. The difference some people see (myself included) is the frequency used for PWM, and that is dictated by hardware or very low-level software in the display controller.
millab said:
Unfortunately Pwm cannot be 'turned off' except possibly by having the display at full brightness all the time. Any reduction in brightness uses PWM.
Every LED screen and light is dimmed by PWM in any product on the market. The difference some people see (myself included) is the frequency used for PWM, and that is dictated by hardware or very low-level software in the display controller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not 100% true. BenQ monitors and Macbook's (above 50% brightness) don't use PWM for example
Even then on the Macbook example it's still over 100Khz according to some contacts of mine.
Ace&tripleD said:
Thanks Tiberiu,
I'm also interested in a solution to pwm, how can this app mitigate the effect of the flickering ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By leaving the actual hardware screen at full brightness and using an overlay to "dim" the image. Unfortunately this still has battery life implications and some phone screens still use PWM at full brightness, it's much less apparent but can still hurt me.
jtl999 said:
By leaving the actual hardware screen at full brightness and using an overlay to "dim" the image. Unfortunately this still has battery life implications and some phone screens still use PWM at full brightness, it's much less apparent but can still hurt me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this is working on an ordinary LCD screen, but will it work on a OLED one too ?
Ace&tripleD said:
I know this is working on an ordinary LCD screen, but will it work on a OLED one too ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what way?
jtl999 said:
In what way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well the technology is different: on a LCD dimming by using a darker overlay will only affect the liquid crystal keeping the backlit at full power, but on a OLED not sure how it works at the pixel level - probably the only way a pixel gets darker is by starting to flicker. In this case a dimming overlay will still produce pwm...
Ace&tripleD said:
well the technology is different: on a LCD dimming by using a darker overlay will only affect the liquid crystal keeping the backlit at full power, but on a OLED not sure how it works at the pixel level - probably the only way a pixel gets darker is by starting to flicker. In this case a dimming overlay will still produce pwm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your exactly right, and I believe it is implementation dependent and may have seen it in youtube videos captured at the right shutter speed. But it doesn't happen that way on all phones.
Also my cousin showed me his Moto X (AT&T version) and it appeared to be AMOLED but PWM free at any brightness. Anyone help me out and find what version it is?
I just messaged him and will edit if he gets back to me.
It was either a first or second gen Moto X that was AMOLED but didn't use PWM. A potential reverse engineering target? In any case I might be seeing him in Mid September so I would check again.
jtl999 said:
Your exactly right, and I believe it is implementation dependent and may have seen it in youtube videos captured at the right shutter speed. But it doesn't happen that way on all phones.
Also my cousin showed me his Moto X (AT&T version) and it appeared to be AMOLED but PWM free at any brightness. Anyone help me out and find what version it is?
I just messaged him and will edit if he gets back to me.
It was either a first or second gen Moto X that was AMOLED but didn't use PWM. A potential reverse engineering target? In any case I might be seeing him in Mid September so I would check again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you understand... Just because you can't see the PWM effect doesn't mean that it isn't using PWM - it just means the frequency is high enough that your eye can't see the flicker. It comes down to the frequency the engineers choose to use
I don't notice any flicker on my Verizon Note 7.
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californiarailroader said:
I don't notice any flicker on my Verizon Note 7.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
congrats on ur note 7
could you lower the brightness to less then 50% and do the pencil test ? and see if you can spot this type of pattern ?
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No need for that. Look at any review of the Note where the screen brightness is lower, or a picture of the screen. You will see the "scrolling lines" effect which is a result of PWM frequency and shutter speed of the camera not matching up.
PWM is annoying at lower frequencies. It seems the Note 7 panel uses a high enough frequency where I can't see it flickering.
I know it varies from person to person but that's luck of the draw I guess. Some people will have no issues while others will get headaches.
LinS123 said:
PWM is annoying at lower frequencies. It seems the Note 7 panel uses a high enough frequency where I can't see it flickering.
I know it varies from person to person but that's luck of the draw I guess. Some people will have no issues while others will get headaches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, did you try the pencil test at low brightness ? I haven't found yet a review that measures the pwm more precisely
I don't see any difference in the image at 0% and 25%. Not sure what I'm looking for. But no flickering for my eyes.
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LinS123 said:
I don't see any difference in the image at 0% and 25%. Not sure what I'm looking for. But no flickering for my eyes.
Sent from my SM-N930W8 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just have a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QriSp-Ffgkg
there is definitely a stroboscopic effect on the pencil when moving it quickly
Related
Just bought an amaze. And I see that I have a bad screen bleed, also one dead pixel. Anybody else have the same issue?
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
Nope I don't have any dead pixels or screen bleed .
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA Premium App
I take that back, its not actually screen bleed. When the lights at the bottom of the phone light up I get the screen bleed effect.
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Oh so its fine now right ?
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA Premium App
Not really lol. But its better cause when watching videos those keys will not be illuminated
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
I tried three different ones before I gave up. All of them had that with the lights. When on they bled up the bottom of the screen. You can really notice it when the screen is dark or black background.
yea mine has it and all the ones i tried did so exchanging it wont result in anything it appears
I only have screen bleeding issue when screen isn't on full brightness. Doesn't really bother me.
I posted this in another thread, but I took some pictures of the "screen bleed" (light from the buttons bleeding over into the screen) on my Amaze 4G. I also put up some pictures of my Nexus S, which has the same button configuration, but zero screen bleed:
http://plus.google.com/photos/105505315440794373505/albums/5662786129509465969
Here's the best picture, with the Nexus S for comparison:
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TheHeffNerr said:
I only have screen bleeding issue when screen isn't on full brightness. Doesn't really bother me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Doesn't bother me really. At least its not an issue that hinders the actual performance of the device like the epic 4g touch and its loss of signal issues that everyone is having.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk
5of0 said:
I posted this in another thread, but I took some pictures of the "screen bleed" (light from the buttons bleeding over into the screen) on my Amaze 4G. I also put up some pictures of my Nexus S, which has the same button configuration, but zero screen bleed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That picture is unfair to the HTC Amaze, the bezel is supposed to be the same color but it's a lot darker on the Nexus S picture.
keger_ said:
That picture is unfair to the HTC Amaze, the bezel is supposed to be the same color but it's a lot darker on the Nexus S picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hokay, I added more pics to my album. Sorry about the terrible shakycam, I don't have a tripod or anything, and flash screws everything up.
Here's the two side-by-side. One thing I noticed: the Nexus is absolutely fantastic at preserving the blacks. I'm sure this is due to a difference in backlight/screen tech, but it's really impressive - black is just black on the Nexus. The Amaze is much lighter grey when it's supposed to be "black". Here's the two side-by-side with the backlights at their lowest and highest settings:
But even without any backlight or bottom lights, the Nexus' screen is still noticeably blacker than the Amaze. I also added another picture I found elsewhere on the web with two versions of the Nexus S - it is just a difference in the screen tech (SuperLCD vs AMOLED). That may be a factor here as well.
I'm not trying to discredit the Amaze at all - I own it, I love it, and I plan on keeping it. The screen bleed is probably made worse/more noticeable by the screen tech choice, which isn't as good at reproducing blacks. This isn't a huge issue for me, but I just wanted to document the differences here. I'm just taking the best pictures I can to represent it - it really is noticeable in person too, if you care about such things.
Can you take pictures in normal daylight on it's auto light settings to show how it looks in real life..
5of0 said:
Here's the two side-by-side. One thing I noticed: the Nexus is absolutely fantastic at preserving the blacks. I'm sure this is due to a difference in backlight/screen tech, but it's really impressive - black is just black on the Nexus. The Amaze is much lighter grey when it's supposed to be "black". Here's the two side-by-side with the backlights at their lowest and highest settings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, indeed. I didn't think the blacks would be so different on the two phones (which is why I thought it came from your pictures - evidently I was wrong).
Those pictures are awesome and clearly show how the bottom lights affect the screen, thanks!
Not enough to make me reconsider (though maybe I'll change my mind when I finally have it in hands).
My friend had a very similar light bleeding in his EVO...one day he broke the screen and when replaced with a new one, the problem was gone. so it was a manufacturing issue on the first screen.
johnk1973 said:
Can you take pictures in normal daylight on it's auto light settings to show how it looks in real life..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hokay. I've added some outdoor pictures, and a set of indoor pictures in my dark apartment now that it's day. Updated link. It definitely is much less noticeable outside (although I spend a considerable amount of time inside that I count as "real life" as well ), and the Nexus screen is still blacker, although not as much. Pics:
---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------
keger_ said:
Wow, indeed. I didn't think the blacks would be so different on the two phones (which is why I thought it came from your pictures - evidently I was wrong).
Those pictures are awesome and clearly show how the bottom lights affect the screen, thanks!
Not enough to make me reconsider (though maybe I'll change my mind when I finally have it in hands).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the side-by-side Nexus pic I found really demonstrates that. It's not nearly as disparate outdoors, but indoors it's pretty noticeable. And it is just the screen tech - screen techs have their pros and cons, black reproduction is only one aspect of screen quality.
domin8 said:
Exactly. Doesn't bother me really. At least its not an issue that hinders the actual performance of the device like the epic 4g touch and its loss of signal issues that everyone is having.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a performance issue but could be an easy software fix just have the keys dim with the screen. Sent htc an email so other versions might be better.. but I'm sure once we get root there might be a fix for it
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
TheHeffNerr said:
Not a performance issue but could be an easy software fix just have the keys dim with the screen. Sent htc an email so other versions might be better.. but I'm sure once we get root there might be a fix for it
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the lights dim? Most LEDs are only capable of being on or off..
johnk1973 said:
Do the lights dim? Most LEDs are only capable of being on or off..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the LEDs are capable of being dimmed, you just have to give them less power.
keger_ said:
All the LEDs are capable of being dimmed, you just have to give them less power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not terribly on-topic, but LEDs are generally actually dimmed via pulse-width modulation - basically, if you want 50% brightness, you turn them on for 50% of the time, off 50% of the time, at >60Hz. Among other things, LED color depends on current - so supplying less current would not only make them dimmer, but change the color.
My main complaint with the screen is that last 2 out of 4 TFP's I had had washed out colours. Yes, there is a thread in regards to colours, but I want to take slightly different approach.
On Sensation, if you run command "dmesg" without brackets it brought load of info, including PANEL_ID_PYD.... Which gave you type of the screen. Since I had 50/50 good/bad screens, I wonder if we have different screens being shipped with TFP. Unfortunately, that command doesn't bring up anything like that, so question is, how to check screen manufacturer.
Now, I bet 100% that some of you have it and don't even know about it. My family thinks I'm mad, but being an amateur photographer made me see colours a bit more than your average person. So, even if you don't think your colours washed out, please check it and let me know your findings.
See this picture.
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Check it with your phone/pc/laptop and place them side by side.
Anything?
Thanks guys.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
from the reports on this forum there definitely seems to be a lot of variation in the calibration of the tf201 screens that have been shipping. people who care about color and have gone through multiple units have observed that one is warm, another cool, another washed out... putting color tests up side-by-side against my HP ZR30w (S-IPS) and samsung GSII (super AMOLED plus), my tf201 is definitely a bit too warm and it doesn't have the best gamut compared to high end displays. but that's not really fair because both of these screens are more expensive and higher quality than what the tf201 is spec'd out to be. imo the tf201 screen is still very nice compared to other tablets out there so i'm fine with it.
Thanks for the input. I don't mind it to be on a warm side, but I like my red to be RED, not pale red. Same goes for blue. These seem to be most affected colours.
Anyone else?
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
The colors on my screen aren't even consistent lol
If I manually set my brightness, sometimes I'll unlock the screen to find deep, vibrant colors, and other times I'll unlock it to greens that I can barely see and reds that are nearly a shade of dark pink...
I personally believe that aside from actual individual defects of these screens, that ICS is at least partially to blame.
Anyone still on Honeycomb who can check this out? I swear I can't find a pattern to what causes them to look good or washed out, but I never know which I'll get. Reboot generally comes up to good colors (haven't noticed otherwise anyway)
I can tell you. Watch MAPS icon carefully, switch to battery mode, then back to normal or performance and watch the magic happen. Then lock and unlock screen to find normal-ish colours again.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
tinky1 said:
I can tell you. Watch MAPS icon carefully, switch to battery mode, then back to normal or performance and watch the magic happen. Then lock and unlock screen to find normal-ish colours again.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I never take it off the battery-saver. Ever. And my colors still get tweaked (although that explains lack of issue on boot up) sporadically. This is what I assumed it was at first, and may play a part, but isn't (in my case at least) the whole story...
buxtahuda said:
But I never take it off the battery-saver. Ever. And my colors still get tweaked (although that explains lack of issue on boot up) sporadically. This is what I assumed it was at first, and may play a part, but isn't (in my case at least) the whole story...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
battery saver mode definitely degrades display quality, wouldn't be surprised to find that it induces color shifts as well. run balanced mode for a while and see if you still have the problem.
Actually, in my case saver mode gives more accurate colours than two others. Did you do the test I mentioned in op ?
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tinky1 said:
Google "color test", select images, and open the very first picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, I got one of those colorblind tests. Looks warmer on the TFP than on my phone.
Lol, I guess I'll have to upload that particular picture. Just find one with all the colours on it.
Btw, I hope Google search is not tailored to you, if it is you should see an eye specialist.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
tinky1 said:
Actually, in my case saver mode gives more accurate colours than two others. Did you do the test I mentioned in op ?
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, I ran that "test" just by looking at home screens, then inside the market the first day of owning. All you really need to look at is your market, then look at the green, orange, blue, and red rectangles for the different sections. My tablet is ICE compared to my HTC Vision. I mean, almost looks like different pallets entirely.
OP updated with pic
tinky1 said:
OP updated with pic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
may want to update the title of the thread as well to reflect the discussion about color
Yes, this is the exact problem I had. My colors were good until the .33 update. Now it is washed out. I returned it for another one and it is just as bad. I guess I got unlucky twice. I wonder if theres a firmware/software update for this issue. My HTC thunderbolt looks a lot better
d1ez3 said:
Yes, this is the exact problem I had. My colors were good until the .33 update. Now it is washed out. I returned it for another one and it is just as bad. I guess I got unlucky twice. I wonder if theres a firmware/software update for this issue. My HTC thunderbolt looks a lot better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is why I think it is an issue of software more than anything. I do know that screens by default will be cooler or warmer than another; my identical LG LED monitors are just the slightest bit different. But the issue with washing out is something I did not notice in the few hours I was able to use my Prime and root it before it updated.
Yes, some will be slightly "defective," but I'm waiting for this next update and some homebrew'in ROM love after the unlocker. Then we'll truly see what's going on.
It's not as noticeable as it really is, dig?
I think it's clearest on magenta there, this is on Performance and SuperIPS.
The reason I'm doing it that way is that the picture is aweful without the SuperIPS on, when side-by-side to my LED screens.
Power saving + SuperIPS. More noticeable, but still doesn't look as bad as it does on the naked eye
Side-by-Side [Power saving | Performance]
jaypm said:
may want to update the title of the thread as well to reflect the discussion about color
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any suggestions as how to name it?
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buxtahuda said:
It's not as noticeable as it really is, dig?
I think it's clearest on magenta there, this is on Performance and SuperIPS.
The reason I'm doing it that way is that the picture is aweful without the SuperIPS on, when side-by-side to my LED screens.
Power saving + SuperIPS. More noticeable, but still doesn't look as bad as it does on the naked eye
Side-by-Side [Power saving | Performance]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your one is good, very good. I'll post mine in the evening.
Now to determine wherever it is sw problem, we need to see if all of primes are the same, and if they are not, do panels differ or not. If panels are different, then possibly it is software. If panels are identical, then we have same sw, same panel, different colours = bad screen.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
You cant just compare the colors on two different devices and say its the primes screen. There isnt a single display/graphics card on the market that displays colors correctly uncalibrated, regardless of how much you paid for it. With most displays the colors will be affected by the luminance levels. Most people adjust their displays for higher contrast and more saturation than what is actually true which can make other devices look pale or washed out. Im a professional photographer and know all to well that you cant use and uncalibrated monitor/grahics card combination for color adjustment in the photos. Ive seen many people over the years blame their cameras or printers for bad colors in photos when in reality it was the fact that an uncalibrated monitor was used in post processing. I use Xrite colormunki calibration tools on my PC and printer to make sure that what you see is what you get and its all true colors. This solution uses an optical measuring device and sends color offest values to the grahics card and print drivers. Any color variations are defnitely a matter of drivers to the display and unfortunately there are no adjustments available on android tablets although Spyder did release an app for Ipads.
I understand where you are coming from. It's not realistic to expect everyone to have calibrated screen. And yes, colours will vary between computer screens.
I had 4 primes, so I do have something to compare it to. I didn't notice anything like that with the first two, but it was obvious with last two.
Also, I compared it to all devices I have, and every device outperformed prime in regards to colour reproduction, especially red and blue.
Could you check yours with colormunki or against your calibrated screen please?
I really hope it's down to software, but I can't afford to gamble £500 on it.
I had some prints done professionally and compared them to my screen, so my screen is fairly close to real colours.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium
And i was hoping for something without light bleed, aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
Just read Engadgets full review of the nexus 10, generally sounds good, but light bleed is my one bug bare, and yes its there, and they confirmed it on a second device aswell!
Sooo close!
MikeBuck said:
And i was hoping for something without light bleed, aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
Just read Engadgets full review of the nexus 10, generally sounds good, but light bleed is my one bug bare, and yes its there, and they confirmed it on a second device aswell!
Sooo close!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down slick. Even two devices doesn't mean that every product off the line will have it. Unless they had checked 20 devices and every one had the same problem, I'm not writing of the device. There are defects. Some people have Nexus 7's with no light bleed, others have it with some light bleed.
cc2ee said:
Calm down slick. Even two devices doesn't mean that every product off the line will have it. Unless they had checked 20 devices and every one had the same problem, I'm not writing of the device. There are defects. Some people have Nexus 7's with no light bleed, others have it with some light bleed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping they were slightly lower quality review devices! PLEASEEEEEEEEEE,
MikeBuck said:
I'm hoping they were slightly lower quality review devices! PLEASEEEEEEEEEE,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of the 5 reviews so far only Engadget mentioned leakage, everyone else is highly satisfied with the screen. Cnet mentioned these are presale models being tested, so let's just wait for the final version.
With the new Nexus 10 coming out, I strongly believe Apple is going downhill. I do not want to be cynical but had Steve been still alive, this would have never happened. When I saw the Ipad Mini, I thought "This is going to be my first Apple product, though expensive". Then Google announced Nexus 10. Everything changed dramatically. I want Google, and nothing but the Google, so help me God(if any)!!!
Light bleed is kind of a big deal to me too. I don't care about anything being really much over 1920x1080 (although it has to be at least 300PPI for me with Pentile displays, I can still see it), but light bleed might be the deal breaker here when I see this thing. It is not like I absolutely need a tablet with a good desktop, laptop, and phone. I'd be getting it for media and browsing around the house and workplace where screen quality will be the #1 focus.
manaox2 said:
Light bleed is kind of a big deal to me too. I don't care about anything being really much over 1920x1080 (although it has to be at least 300PPI for me with Pentile displays, I can still see it), but light bleed might be the deal breaker here when I see this thing. It is not like I absolutely need a tablet with a good desktop, laptop, and phone. I'd be getting it for media and browsing around the house and workplace where screen quality will be the #1 focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Can't stand light bleed.
It seems that the contrast is nothing special either, but that's because it's not as bright as other tablets. The black level looks decent according to the tests.
D: ohh lol i hate light bleeds
Does warranty cover light bleeding?
Any LCD with a backlight will suffer from light bleed to some extent even the iPad3 retina (just Google for the pictures). Obviously, something to check for and exchange if it's significant. The pictures on The Verge don't show any signs of it and the pixel level comparison shows the Nexus 10 display to be superior in black level, colors and sharpness against retina.
What is the brightness of the screen, anyway?
There is a firestorm going on over at Engadget over this review. The same reviewer wrote the iPad mini review and fawned over it but nitpicks the Nexus 10. Engadget has been deleting posts that point out the flaws in the review (and back it up with evidence).
I wouldn't put too much stock in this review, but it's always a good idea to be skeptical.
What is exactly "light bleed"?
Alexpride said:
What is exactly "light bleed"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Background light inconsistency.
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Alexpride said:
What is exactly "light bleed"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When the spread of the backlight is uneven, so parts of the screen are brighter than others.
I always thought light bleed was the presence of light when there shouldn't be any. Like when you're watching a movie in portrait view, and the black bars on top and bottom show light. That's why I haven't wasted much time with IPS in the last couple years ever since discovering Samsung's AMOLEDs. Uneven backlighting is a different and even worse artifact, and again it only affects non-AMOLED screens.
testulous said:
I always thought light bleed was the presence of light when there shouldn't be any. Like when you're watching a movie in portrait view, and the black bars on top and bottom show light. That's why I haven't wasted much time with IPS in the last couple years ever since discovering Samsung's AMOLEDs. Uneven backlighting is a different and even worse artifact, and again it only affects non-AMOLED screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like they both have pros and cons. Amoled displays have high risk of tint, I experienced this in my s2 for about a year until I finally got a replacement. This one portrays whites much better, or at least now it does. Aside from that you have all benefits, thin capacitive touch layer, vibrant colors (I don't give a **** if they're over saturated, they look great and that's what matters), no risk of light bleed, and huge potential battery savings. In my personal opinion I would take an amoled panel any day. I mean, displays like the super lcd2 in the one x are brilliant, but come on,, have you seen the note 2 on dynamic settings ?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
Wished Samsung had gone with SAMOLED. Without a backlight there's no backlight bleed, ghosting, uniformity, etc. issues.
mi7chy said:
Wished Samsung had gone with SAMOLED. Without a backlight there's no backlight bleed, ghosting, uniformity, etc. issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The technology is not there yet, nor is the economy. They simply can't produce a 2560x1680 OLED panel, 10" or otherwise, at a price anyone would be willing to pay.
Look at the PenTile "tricks" they have to pull on Galaxy phones as an indicator of how they're struggling with the tech, look at the very high cost of the Tab 7.7 to see how expensive it gets when you increase size, and to further reinforce that look at the ludicrous price of their big screen SAMOLED televisions compared to LCD and plasma.
Give it a few more years, it'll be feasible, and Samsung is surely working very hard on the problem, since they have a lot invested in pretty much owning the OLED market.
You're right. This is going to be the best 10" screen for the next 6-12 months. Yes it won't look as good as the screen on my S3 but I will be more than happy with it.
8 days and counting!
Hopefully a PCWorld/Currys near me will have it ready to take away!
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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Here is the Nexus 10 Pre Calibration Results.
no post calibration due to lack of adjustments right now,so its not much to do than accept it.
i try to explain the results here
first Gamma: average 2.21
that is reference class but the problem here is that the line isnt flat.
it should be straight at 2.2
around 2.0 at the darks and 2.4 in the whites
that isnt that bad that i thought it should be
i was more into that the gamma was way lower, around 1.5
if everyone complains about washed out blacks then they are close to reference.
so stop crying and enjoy details in the dark scenes
i think most other OLED screens have much higher gamma for the darks just to get a fake contrast boost.
the problem then is that you loose details in dark scenes and get crushed blacks.
on the Nexus 10 we dont loose any details.
Next Color temp: 6784 Kelvin is great.
6500 is reference so its just a little bit to the blue side
GrayScale: thats the one that makes white where it should be white
i must say that the grayscale is reference!
Great work Samsung!
the only part that sails away is IRE10 that has to much blue and red in it but then IRE 10 is almost black and you
will not see the colors.
Contrast
Blacklevel is great at 25% brightness on the Nexsus 10
with that brightness(Y: 130= recommended brightness for LCD TVs) you get a contrast ratio of 814:1
average i must say but not bad
with higher brightness you loose blacklevel.
(i also measured the Contrast ratio at 50% brightness and its the same around 800:1
blacklevel at 50% brightness is higher Y: 0.300)
and so to the worst
Color Inaccuracy!
Bad Bad Work Samsung
the calibrator must have slept during the process
not much to say that blue isnt blue on the Nexus 10
165%!! to high brightness and to low saturation
the only colors that is close to reference is CYAN followed by YELLOW and RED.
the others has to low saturation.
Note: the White Dot in the middle is our Whites
and with the reference class grayscale that dot is almost in the box.
its the white dot that controls all other colors so if that is off all colors is off.
but that doenst make any sense here.
the colors should be better but they are not.
i think the main problem here is the Colour Gamut itself.
samsung have choosen the wrong colour gamut for the Nexus 10.
so the conclusion is that Gamma level isnt as bad as everyone thought
the bad thing here is the colors with its low saturation and wrong brightness.
A new "Wider" colour gamut can make this display world class.
Edit: to the Developers that searching for a gamma adjustment you can stop doing that
The Gamma Curve isnt the main problem.
if we are lucky samsung has several different colour gamuts hidden somewhere.
so thats what you should look for.
on my LED tv i have 5 different colour gamuts to choose from and they all get different CIE scores.
if there are several Gamuts hidden they should be named "Wide" "Standard" "EBU" "SMPTE" "BT709"
Edit2: or you could search for "Adobe RGB"
thats one gamut that should have been on the Nexus 10 from start.
Nexus 10 cant even use the full sRGB colorspace,we only get 75% of sRGB it and that is really bad.
i was just checking the colors on my Galaxy S2 and it uses the full Adobe RGB colors.
thats why all colors looks so vivid on most OLED screens
they are calibrated to the wider Adobe RGB Gamut.
info on all colorspaces used:
http://thehdrimage.com/color-managment-and-monitor-calibration/
you can see that you get way more colors with the Adobe RGB compared to the standard sRGB
Awesome, thank you
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
Great job!!
Despite gamma is well calibrated, colours look aweful. We really need that colour management. Lets hope Franco or any other dev can find the way for this.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Straf said:
Great job!!
Despite gamma is well calibrated, colours look aweful. We really need that colour management. Lets hope Franco or any other dev can find the way for this.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
yes lets hope so
it should atleast be able to display the whole sRGB colorspace.
Patrik G said:
Thanks!
yes lets hope so
it should atleast be able to display the whole sRGB colorspace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, do you know what's the color gamut on the iPad? And I thought you were working with Franco to calibrate it, was I wrong? If not how's that going?
Edit: Never mind, I found the one of the iPad
Fidelator said:
Interesting, do you know what's the color gamut on the iPad? And I thought you were working with Franco to calibrate it, was I wrong? If not how's that going?
Edit: Never mind, I found the one of the iPad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what gamut does the iPad use?
not working but as i got the tools i can do tests if someone comes up to something.
even if you got saturation controls you need a colormeter to get it right.
Patrik G said:
what gamut does iPad use?
not working but as i got the tools i can do tests if someone comes up to something.
even if you got saturation controls you need a colormeter to get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has 95% of the sRGB gamut.
diff colors on diff models
I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this before, but I've had 3 different Nexus 10 models (with a 4th on the way; RMA) and I've noticed different color. 1 seemed very warm and whites looked silver-esque, and the others seemed picture perfect (to me). Too bad that I had to return the ones with good color because of other defects. Hopefully my next will have no issues, but if it doesn't, it will be my last.
newcombrs said:
1 seemed very warm and whites looked silver-esque,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it could be lightbleed that causes that.
the color from the lightbleed seems to be yellow so if you have alot of lightbleed you will get a yellow tone in the whites.
Fidelator said:
It has 95% of the sRGB gamut.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you should have that % on the N10 aswell.
but to bad that the calibrator got drunk that day
the strange thing is that you can see a line in the CIE chart
Blue/Magenta/Red are on the exact same line.
its just like the Gamut was cut there and not where the boxes are.
i think i found something in the "fimc_is_fw.bin" file under system/vendor/firmware
"R_SatThresh" : "Gr_SatThresh" :
"BrightnessGain uSaturationGain sContrast sUserContrast sSharpBlur uNoiseInd ConstFitBitsVals ConstFit16Vals ConstFit8Vals"
that looks like 8bit and 16bit colors
we want 16bit so why has it a setting for 8bit?
"usSatThrStrong usSatThrMild usSaturatedScene usSatSceneMinClipPix "
what the hell is this ?
is there different saturations for strong/mild/scene ?
and what adjusts those?
and is there a way to control those settings?
Edit: also found under fimc_is_fw2.bin
gamutLowY12 gamutHighY12
also
wLargeGamut wSmallGamut
gamut large/gamut small ?
yeah thats right
we have a small gamut right now
change it to "wLargeGamut" and maybe we will have correct colors
so many options but so few that can be accessed
question is what controls those?
and why is there different options for those?
questions goes to the Kernel hackers.
GO!
make adjustments options for those above
Patrik G said:
i think i found something in the "fimc_is_fw.bin" file under system/vendor/firmware
"R_SatThresh" : "Gr_SatThresh" :
"BrightnessGain uSaturationGain sContrast sUserContrast sSharpBlur uNoiseInd ConstFitBitsVals ConstFit16Vals ConstFit8Vals"
that looks like 8bit and 16bit colors
we want 16bit so why has it a setting for 8bit?
"usSatThrStrong usSatThrMild usSaturatedScene usSatSceneMinClipPix "
what the hell is this ?
is there different saturations for strong/mild/scene ?
and what adjusts those?
and is there a way to control those settings?
Edit: also found under fimc_is_fw2.bin
gamutLowY12 gamutHighY12
also
wLargeGamut wSmallGamut
gamut large/gamut small ?
yeah thats right
we have a small gamut right now
change it to "wLargeGamut" and maybe we will have correct colors
so many options but so few that can be accessed
question is what controls those?
and why is there different options for those?
questions goes to the Kernel hackers.
GO!
make adjustments options for those above
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For people that build ROMs like myself, that file is called a "proprietary", which means it is a prebuilt file (in this case a binary) that ROMs have to use to make the device work properly. More than likely you will not be able to feed any values to it. About the only option would be to hexedit the file to see if it can be manipulated.
thanks for the answer ktoonsez
so you where aware of the file already
ktoonsez said:
About the only option would be to hexedit the file to see if it can be manipulated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that i dont understand but give it a try!
Edit: cant you see what settings that is activated on the device and which is not?
Patrik G said:
thanks for the answer ktoonsez
so you where aware of the file already
that i dont understand but give it a try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, I was not aware of the file, just looked it up in my AOKP source and found it under prebuilt proprietary binaries. Maybe someone with more free time on there hands can try to hexedit it, I definetely don't, lol.
ktoonsez said:
No problem, I was not aware of the file, just looked it up in my AOKP source and found it under prebuilt proprietary binaries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok i found those values when i searched for "gamut" inside the files from the stock rom.
was using the program "seeker" on my PC
http://www.veign.com/application.php?appid=104
Great job so far guys. That .bin file sounds like the ticket. Hopefully the values can be easily modified.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Patrik G said:
i think i found something in the "fimc_is_fw.bin" file under system/vendor/firmware ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Patrik,
Nice find, I wonder if you discuss you findings with a developer you has already created color control capability on rooted devices including the Nexus 7, which we may speed this investigation.
Product: Faux123 Kernel Enhancement Pro
Playstore: https://play.google.com/store/apps/...GwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS50ZWFta2FuZy5mYXV4Y2xvY2siXQ
The developer invites direct contact at: [email protected]
Related XDA thread for his product(s): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=34502852#post34502852
I hope this helps as I agree color calibration capabilities would be a major feature for many people who are willing to root.
i know who he is but he doesnt answer questions so i let it be
someone else can give him this info
This is kind of a big deal no? Surprised at the lack of interest.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
amdfanTO said:
This is kind of a big deal no? Surprised at the lack of interest.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm surprised too, I can't understand how the hell comes people are fine with this screen, I won't ever be completely happy with my Nexus unless this is fixed.
the screen gets bluish when viewing at an angle like those cheap old tv's that you have to watch directly in front. Anybody else notice this? is this normal?
Darkweasel1981 said:
the screen gets bluish when viewing at an angle like those cheap old tv's that you have to watch directly in front. Anybody else notice this? is this normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first thing i notice about the screen the notice the grainy part at low light. coming from a note 8 it was bothering me like hell the blue tint shifting but now i dont even notice it. i just enjoy the phone and think the screen looks great.
eduardmc said:
first thing i notice about the screen the notice the grainy part at low light. coming from a note 8 it was bothering me like hell the blue tint shifting but now i dont even notice it. i just enjoy the phone and think the screen looks great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never had this bluish tint on any phone before. Is there a setting for this? Im gonna wait for more replies to see if this is normal. I have 13 more days to return.
Mine has it but I don't find it to be extreme. I prefer the slight blue hue to some other devices that are slightly pink or yellow at an angle. I have to put my device at an angle I'd rarely (if ever) use to see the blue tint.
Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
Darkweasel1981 said:
Never had this bluish tint on any phone before. Is there a setting for this? Im gonna wait for more replies to see if this is normal. I have 13 more days to return.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually is "normal".
All reviewers I read in my country (Italy) said something about blueshing whites with different angles, so I think that it's a common issue with the P-OLED technology ATM, so if it's a problem for you change phone and avoid the Pixel XL2 and the V30.
Darkweasel1981 said:
the screen gets bluish when viewing at an angle like those cheap old tv's that you have to watch directly in front. Anybody else notice this? is this normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, looking at your phone from an angle is not normal. Most people look at their phones head on.
Settings-Display-Screen Color. If it's on Normal you will see more blue hue. I changed mine to Photo and that reduced the blue significantly. There is a custom setting. Don't know if you tried this yet. If you did and still have an issue, then I don't know what to add...
Take Care!!
Darkweasel1981 said:
Never had this bluish tint on any phone before. Is there a setting for this? Im gonna wait for more replies to see if this is normal. I have 13 more days to return.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i guess u never had an amoled screen phone. galaxy s6 and s7 suffer from color shifting but samsung has better quality control over their screen since only a few devices has this. LG probably didnt care much about this issue and my guess is that most v30 have this problem. is lg first attempt on oled screen since the flex serious but they really need to work on their panel issue. dont bother exchanging.l since u probably going to get anothe device with same or even worse color shifting. if u cant live with it and want an lg phone, wait for lg g7 and wait for review to pops up.
this issue does not bother me and i already own a s8, s8 plus and note 8. v30 screen might not be good compare to those but to me it still a beautifull screen
on the side note. lg gave us 2 year warranty. maybe a new batch a few month ahead fix this issue and we can do a warranty replacement
This seems relatively widespread, although may be to differing extents, as there are reports of the same blue tint on angle for the pixel 2 xl which also have oled panels by lg
having the phone lying on a table makes me look at it at an angle all the time. this is an issue. Samsungs display are quite advanced over the LG displays it seems.
But I don't change the angle all the time while looking at the screen, so I don't notice it too much.
Also, whenever I don't have a uniform or white background, I hardly notice (although the tint is strong).
e.g. when holding looking from the bottom, which I do often (when it is laying in the table)
Any Ideas, if this will be fixed next year, or is this technology based and remains? (samsung has redish tint, e.g. IphoneX)
You can try these color settings. It seems to help lessen the blue tint. https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-v30/how-to/v30-screen-colors-achieving-d65-white-t3695617
"Screen Color:*
Select Custom and hit the gear icon
Color Temperature: Cooler (slider all the way to the left).
RGB Levels:
Red: maximum
Green: maximum
Blue: MINimum
Result: x=.285, y=.325
If this is too green for you and you're ok with a little more blueness, decrease green until you're happy."
carlaron said:
having the phone lying on a table makes me look at it at an angle all the time. this is an issue. Samsungs display are quite advanced over the LG displays it seems.
But I don't change the angle all the time while looking at the screen, so I don't notice it too much.
Also, whenever I don't have a uniform or white background, I hardly notice (although the tint is strong).
e.g. when holding looking from the bottom, which I do often (when it is laying in the table)
Any Ideas, if this will be fixed next year, or is this technology based and remains? (samsung has redish tint, e.g. IphoneX)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hardware limitation. Samsung's have it too just much less. i notice it sitting on a table also, so try to angle it right. aside from that it's a nice clean panel. it's 1 of only 2 complaints i have, this and no led. no big deal over here. nicer than my htc10 display, that's for sure. better phone, too.
VR32 said:
hardware limitation. Samsung's have it too just much less. i notice it sitting on a table also, so try to angle it right. aside from that it's a nice clean panel. it's 1 of only 2 complaints i have, this and no led. no big deal over here. nicer than my htc10 display, that's for sure. better phone, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Non-issue.
I look at my display straight on, when it's unlocked.
If I'm not actually holding my phone -- if it's on a table or on tilted Qi wireless charging pad -- then the display is LOCKED and the black & white "Always On Display" is showing me notifications. There's NO blue tint on AOD.
But if I'm holding my own phone and looking at it, reading emails, I couldn't care less about OTHER people not being able to read my screen due to some off-angle, slightly blueish tint. It's none of their business.
Maybe someone will yell at me, "Hey, tell LG to get rid of that off-angle blue tint so I can read YOUR emails better!"
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I actually like that other people standing to the side probably can't read my emails or texts...
When my display is unlocked, I don't hold my phone sideways with the volume buttons pointing towards my eyes. So, I never see any blueish tint...
Sent from my official open market LG US998 V30+
ChazzMatt said:
Non-issue.
I look at my display straight on, when it's unlocked.
If I'm not actually holding my phone -- if it's on a table or on tilted Qi wireless charging pad -- then the display is LOCKED and the black & white "Always On Display" is showing me notifications. There's NO blue tint on AOD.
But if I'm holding my own phone and looking at it, reading emails, I couldn't care less about OTHER people not being able to read my screen due to some off-angle, slightly blueish tint. It's none of their business.
Maybe someone will yell at me, "Hey, tell LG to get rid of that off-angle blue tint so I can read YOUR emails better!"
I actually like that other people standing to the side probably can't read my emails...
When my display is unlocked, I don't hold my phone sideways with the volume buttons pointing towards my eyes. So, I never see any blueish tint...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It can be pretty severe but doesn't affect me at all as there's no need (for me at least) to look at such a small, handheld device from an angle. Would be an issue if it was a TV obviously. I guess some people might disagree if they need to look at their screen from an angle often for whatever reason, but if that's the case they should definitely go with another model.
Don't call a bug/quality issue a feature... that is just too lame. Of course Samsung has the issue, it tints red, but at a way lower rate. IPS is greater in many ways. Of course not in rich blacks.
Does anybody know if there are any display revisions within the V30? Some reports about the pixel (TheVerge) say that newer phones may be less affected.
The blue tint bothers me, but I really like the phone. Just wish there was a litte less tint.
Anybody know if there are different display versions? qualityise?
carlaron said:
Don't call a bug/quality issue a feature... that is just too lame. Of course Samsung has the issue, it tints red, but at a way lower rate. IPS is greater in many ways. Of course not in rich blacks.
Does anybody know if there are any display revisions within the V30? Some reports about the pixel (TheVerge) say that newer phones may be less affected.
The blue tint bothers me, but I really like the phone. Just wish there was a litte less tint.
Anybody know if there are different display versions? qualityise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the Pixels are now equal to the V30? Because theirs was even bluer than the V30.
I don't see it because I don't look sideways at either of my LG V39/V30+. phone. My wife hasn't said a word about hers either.
Sent from my official open market LG US998 V30+
ChazzMatt said:
So the Pixels are now equal to the V30? Because theirs was even bluer than the V30.
I don't see it because I don't look sideways at either of my LG V39/V30+. phone. My wife hasn't said a word about hers either.
Sent from my official open market LG US998 V30+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
take 5 pixel2xl and 5 v30, they are all different in screen quality... that is what bothers me.
maybe they come from several production batches, but technically they are the same.
does anybody know if there are any screen hw revisions on either pixel2xl or v30?
I know that different people have different opinion about quality. some use pc monitors with TN panels... not because they are so nice to look at, but because they are gamers and the panels switch fast.
oled is a promising technology, but LCD is way more mature... If you don't see the tint or if it does not bother you, that is ok for me. but I see it alot, and it bothers me. because I use several devices all day long; and if my personal device looks inferior/different, then I don't like that for the price paid...