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Some months ago I rooted my Vibrant, and realized that was all I had done...rooted it. I had no idea where I was going after that point, so I unrooted and went about my day. I am taking a new approach, I would like some advice in rooting. Pros and cons (other than by rooting I have the chance of REALLY messing things up...i know that thanks.)
I would like to know what exactly rooting does for me, and if there are any articles anyone can point me to I would greatly appreciate the links.
ALSO I am dipping my toes into app development. the best way I could think to do so was with Google Labs App Inventor, but I think ive read that it limits you as far as developing and then sharing through the market, if someone could set me straight on that I would appreciate it, but this also goes in hand with rooting, I have read that alot of people who develop have rooted their phones.
I appreciate any help that you can give me.
Gore
Pro : Access to all the amazing ROMs this community has to offer.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Shortbus-Driver said:
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well, that was helpful...thanks. next?
First off if u didnt want to deal with something u could tinker with u could of gotten a iphone but u didnt? Androids are open source so u can tweak it the way u want it to be, leave it stock or u can add themes to ur stock froyo and make it look like u want it to. But if u want to go all the way and realy make the phone live up to its potential u can root it and do so many amazing things with it once its opened to the power of the Superuser. U can make ur phone run so much faster and once it runs that fast and smooth ull wonder how u lived with that dull slowness of ur phone before. And dont forget all the cool colors u can add to ur phone that dont come with just stock, ginger red theme, high voltage blue and so many more. And then theres the mods that u get with ur phone that the brilliant developers port from other phones. Theres just too many reasons to root and none not to. now u know...LOL
Let me count the ways...
You can install applications that need root:
* AdFree - block in-application ads
* Titanium Backup - backup/restore applications AND their data, and with the paid version you can also backup to your dropbox account
* Root Explorer: Lets you manage files that aren't in your user partition, including the files for the annoyingly loud T-Mobile jingle that plays on boot. Sometimes you do need to start up your phone discreetly, without letting everyone in a 50m radius know you're a T-Mobile customer.
You can also UNinstall applications that you don't need. Don't want T-Mobile TV cluttering your applications list? Gone. Don't want Slacker Radio? Byebye.
Also, you can flash ROMs (or just kernels) that are much faster than the stock, unoptimized Samsung one. There is a thing called the Voodoo lagfix that makes your storage access cached, so applications aren't held up by slow writes when they need fast reads. Some also come with kernels that support Voodoo Sound which makes the audio output sound much better by increasing the sampling rate on the DAC and tying the DAC to the clock to reduce jitter. Definitely a must whether you're an audiophile with $10k cans or just plugging the phone into a sound system.
Let's see, what else. With root, you can also add on wifi tethering without having to shell out more money to use T-mobile's version. You can also install Clockwork Recovery and use it to make a complete backup of your phone, so in case you break it and get another one, just root it, install clockwork recovery, and restore the image and you're back to your old configuration.
So yeah... hopefully at least some of this stuff interests you. If not... well, yeah there's really no point in rooting.
Root becuse your mom told you not to
Not to be rude but if you don't know why you should root then you shouldn't.
OP, if you want an answer to your question, read my Vibrant Guide (why root) and then the Noob root (detailed steps) guide if you need help doing it.
If you read anything on this forum...and still cant figure it out...then give up...you'll never understand
OP, rooting is for those who are not 100% satisfied with there phones. Samsung has given us an amazing device, but fell short in delivering in some areas. Rooting helps us add more functionality & personalization options. If you are happy with the phone and no issues using the way Samsung gave you the phone. Then I do not see a reason for you to root. But if you are like one of us, Then you need to get on the Root train and follow the wonderful guide maintained by "s15274n".
Statutory Warning: Rooting & flashing an android device is a serious addiction. Might lead to serious domestic and or job related issues.
Why shouldn't you?
Unless you want to become a flash junkie with an obsessive need to mod, update, enhance or customize; jonesin’ to flash something every few days, suffering from withdrawals if you ever have to ODIN back to stock due to error (has yet to happen to me, though), scrounging XDA daily for your next hit, do not concern yourself with something like AOSP. Simply turn away and do not look back.
rooting your hpone basically gives you Admin privalages.
You can install custom apps and ROMs with awesome features!
nomadrider123 said:
Not to be rude but if you don't know why you should root then you shouldn't.
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not to be rude but if you didn't have anything helpful to say then why say anything at all?
Thanks to most!
I thanked those who gave me some helpful advice. I do appreciate the insight. I guess i'll give this another crack.
By the By, with the exception of the handful of mildly entertaining comments, if you didnt have anything helpful to say, why say it? No one should discourage anybody from trying anything. Weighing my pros and cons was just a way to decide if its something I really wanted to mess with again.
SO again, thanks to all who did help, and thanks was given
^ I can't vouch for everyone, but the one you quoted I am confident didn't mean it negatively. Way too hard to decipher words on the Internet.
If you want additional features, you should root. If you are content, do not.
gorealmighty said:
not to be rude but if you didn't have anything helpful to say then why say anything at all?
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Thing was, nomad had a point. If you genuinely don't know why you should root--and a Vibrant, of all phones--you probably shouldn't. You mention the con of messing up the phone in your original post, and if you don't know the advantages of applying custom ROMs and kernels to the Vibrant, there's a decent chance you may well brick the device.
The Vibrant is a great phone, but tends to be so only after it's rooted and customized. Without the rooting and customization, there are problems with lag, gps, battery life, and myriad other functions.
By rooting and customizing, you're essentially updating the software in various ways that will help ameliorate those issues. My Vibrant was unusable to the point that I upgraded to a Nexus S. However, with the Nexus S, I got comfortable with rooting, unlocking bootloaders, adb, and flashing ROMs and kernels. It became rather routine.
It became routine enough, in fact, that I ended up going back to my Vibrant, because I was comfortable enough to experiment and attempt to make it better than it had been.
But if you don't know that you have to root to correct the lag, say, you may well be better off getting a more midrange Android phone that's more feature than super. You don't want to bork anything, after all.
Just do yourself a favor--understand that rooting and customizing are individual things, and that the forum is great for technical help but less so when you want to know things like which ROM is "best"; there's no such thing. If you root, play with the device, and play with the different ROMs. Give yourself a week where every day you use a different one so you can get a feel for which one's your favorite.
willentrekin said:
Thing was, nomad had a point. If you genuinely don't know why you should root--and a Vibrant, of all phones--you probably shouldn't. You mention the con of messing up the phone in your original post, and if you don't know the advantages of applying custom ROMs and kernels to the Vibrant, there's a decent chance you may well brick the device.
The Vibrant is a great phone, but tends to be so only after it's rooted and customized. Without the rooting and customization, there are problems with lag, gps, battery life, and myriad other functions.
By rooting and customizing, you're essentially updating the software in various ways that will help ameliorate those issues. My Vibrant was unusable to the point that I upgraded to a Nexus S. However, with the Nexus S, I got comfortable with rooting, unlocking bootloaders, adb, and flashing ROMs and kernels. It became rather routine.
It became routine enough, in fact, that I ended up going back to my Vibrant, because I was comfortable enough to experiment and attempt to make it better than it had been.
But if you don't know that you have to root to correct the lag, say, you may well be better off getting a more midrange Android phone that's more feature than super. You don't want to bork anything, after all.
Just do yourself a favor--understand that rooting and customizing are individual things, and that the forum is great for technical help but less so when you want to know things like which ROM is "best"; there's no such thing. If you root, play with the device, and play with the different ROMs. Give yourself a week where every day you use a different one so you can get a feel for which one's your favorite.
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with the initial quote in mind, I understand. But thank you just the same because this is in fact the kind of feedback I was looking for. DID get my phone rooted btw, now im just fighting with rom manager. I'm on my way though
gorealmighty said:
with the initial quote in mind, I understand. But thank you just the same because this is in fact the kind of feedback I was looking for. DID get my phone rooted btw, now im just fighting with rom manager. I'm on my way though
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Well good luck with it. It's a totally fun, very empowering process. And XDA is the Android equivalent of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; the users here are so knowledgeable and helpful, there's no reason to panic, ever. Pretty much everything you do to your phone will be mostly harmless.
I've read countless forums on the rooting and roms and kernels and I have the most basic grasp of what each do. It seems that every time I read an article or forum post at some point something is mentioned that is over my head or that I don't fully grasp. I would love to not brick my phone. I need someone to explain my options and what I can do like I'm 5. What is Odex or Deodex? HOW do I find roms and kernels that work for my phone. What is clockworkmod and ADB? And what can I do to make sure I don't completely brick my phone.
I currently have an AT&T S4 that I rooted with Casual. Through casual it also loaded TWRP. I made a backup of everything it would let me check. I need to get a kernel onto this phone that will allow me to run Call Recorder "http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643"
I am required to have a call recording feature on my cell phone or I'm tied to a landline for work. I had a Galaxy S2 Skyrocket that this program worked perfectly on.
I would like to for the most part keep the phone looking stock. Although I'm not sure what features I could add by going with a different rom.
I'm sorry for the noob questions.
There is a 1% chance of your device bricking if you follow all the correct root steps. Clockworkmod is like twrp. It is a custom recovery to let you put custom Roms on. ADB is the android device bridge. It let's you control your android from Ubuntu command prompt. Hope this helped
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
No offense meant, I honestly can't suggest you Root or ROM your phone if you can't follow the root procedure without getting confused. If you don't understand the basics how are you going to take care of issues that will inevitably come up? Desperately asking for help when your phone is looping isn't a good answer.
ADB
Odex and Deodex
ATT galaxy s4 forums, kernels are under Original Development
TWRP and CWM are just different types of recoveries. I don't like CWM because the wipe options aren't all in one menu which is bothersome. But both work well. I suggest TWRP to all my friends to limit the amount of "my phone won't boot" phone calls I get.
And the only way to ensure you don't mess up your phone is by not messing with it at all.
Mebct76 said:
I've read countless forums on the rooting and roms and kernels and I have the most basic grasp of what each do. It seems that every time I read an article or forum post at some point something is mentioned that is over my head or that I don't fully grasp. I would love to not brick my phone. I need someone to explain my options and what I can do like I'm 5. What is Odex or Deodex? HOW do I find roms and kernels that work for my phone. What is clockworkmod and ADB? And what can I do to make sure I don't completely brick my phone.
I currently have an AT&T S4 that I rooted with Casual. Through casual it also loaded TWRP. I made a backup of everything it would let me check. I need to get a kernel onto this phone that will allow me to run Call Recorder "http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643"
I am required to have a call recording feature on my cell phone or I'm tied to a landline for work. I had a Galaxy S2 Skyrocket that this program worked perfectly on.
I would like to for the most part keep the phone looking stock. Although I'm not sure what features I could add by going with a different rom.
I'm sorry for the noob questions.
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Every last one of those questions can and would be answered through very few Google searches. Hell, searching this site will return a lot of the same results. There's even an XDA Wiki for such FAQ. And why are you posting in Verizon if you have AT&T and there's and AT&T section for the S4? Just sayin'
Wrong forum
I would also like to suggest you make sure to post in the correct forum for your device to ensure any answers you get are applicable to what you're using. The OP indicates you have an AT&T S4, yet you posted in the Verizon forum. Should you ever have an issue with your device and need further assistance, getting responses specific to the Verizon device versus your actual device could cause further problems for you.
EDIT: Didn't see Delakit's response before posting mine
Delakit said:
Every last one of those questions can and would be answered through very few Google searches. Hell, searching this site will return a lot of the same results. There's even an XDA Wiki for such FAQ. And why are you posting in Verizon if you have AT&T and there's and AT&T section for the S4? Just sayin'
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Yeah I just noticed it was in the Verizon section. My bad. It appears I wasn't paying close enough attention when I posted that.
Dubbsy said:
No offense meant, I honestly can't suggest you Root or ROM your phone if you can't follow the root procedure without getting confused. If you don't understand the basics how are you going to take care of issues that will inevitably come up? Desperately asking for help when your phone is looping isn't a good answer.
ADB
Odex and Deodex
ATT galaxy s4 forums, kernels are under Original Development
TWRP and CWM are just different types of recoveries. I don't like CWM because the wipe options aren't all in one menu which is bothersome. But both work well. I suggest TWRP to all my friends to limit the amount of "my phone won't boot" phone calls I get.
And the only way to ensure you don't mess up your phone is by not messing with it at all.
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Click to collapse
I can follow the root procedure just fine and have rooted my phone. How can I learn if I just sit back and say "well guess I can't do it". Your right there are going to be the inevitable issues. The only way to ensure that I never learn this stuff is to not mess with it. I'm fully aware of the risks and potential rewards of this. But I'd like to figure it out. It is probably difficult for the senior guys such as yourself to remember what it was like first starting out. You've got multiple devices with multiple influences on the current setup of the phone at stock and because of the multiple hands in the making of each phone you have different rules and procedures for each one. The sprint S4 is different from the AT&T s4 which is different from the T-mobile S4. So following a guide doesn't always help if you don't completely understand the terminology. Can I use a mod kernel on a stock rom? From what i've read, yes but if it is AT&T it must be loki'd, ok What does loki do, why does it need to be loki'd, can I loki any S4 designed kernel, and HOW do i Loki something. I have yet to find something that answers all of those. Would you like to try? Maybe someone has answered them and I just can't find it.
Also, it appears I posted this in the Verizon forum instead of the AT&T forum. It was late and I wasn't paying that close of attention. My apologies.
Icculus760 said:
I would also like to suggest you make sure to post in the correct forum for your device to ensure any answers you get are applicable to what you're using. The OP indicates you have an AT&T S4, yet you posted in the Verizon forum. Should you ever have an issue with your device and need further assistance, getting responses specific to the Verizon device versus your actual device could cause further problems for you.
EDIT: Didn't see Delakit's response before posting mine
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Thanks...I wasn't paying close enough attention when I posted that.
Mebct76 said:
I can follow the root procedure just fine and have rooted my phone. How can I learn if I just sit back and say "well guess I can't do it". Your right there are going to be the inevitable issues. The only way to ensure that I never learn this stuff is to not mess with it. I'm fully aware of the risks and potential rewards of this. But I'd like to figure it out. It is probably difficult for the senior guys such as yourself to remember what it was like first starting out. You've got multiple devices with multiple influences on the current setup of the phone at stock and because of the multiple hands in the making of each phone you have different rules and procedures for each one. The sprint S4 is different from the AT&T s4 which is different from the T-mobile S4. So following a guide doesn't always help if you don't completely understand the terminology. Can I use a mod kernel on a stock rom? From what i've read, yes but if it is AT&T it must be loki'd, ok What does loki do, why does it need to be loki'd, can I loki any S4 designed kernel, and HOW do i Loki something. I have yet to find something that answers all of those. Would you like to try? Maybe someone has answered them and I just can't find it.
Also, it appears I posted this in the Verizon forum instead of the AT&T forum. It was late and I wasn't paying that close of attention. My apologies.
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Holy crap, hyper questions. Let me try to tackle them.
I remember what is was like. As weird as it sounds, I've never been hesitant about breaking my phone even when it was my only device. But everyone is different. I have learned the most when I've made my device unusable for a few days. Everyone learns and functions differently though. In Psychology they call it the Theory of Multiple Intelligences. Some people are brilliant but can't visualize anything. Some are brilliant and can't take tests. I could go on and rant about our school's piss poor management of teaching children correctly according to their "intelligences" but I'll just stop there.
GSM is different than the CDMA versions because the radios are looking for entirely different signals. Srint, USC, Metro, and Verizon all being CDMA. Radios are the biggest pain when trying to port IMO.
Loki is an exploit to work around the locked bootloaders of ATT and VZW. There is a thread somewhere on exactly how it works. But there are also loki patches posted and the better recoveries all automatically loki patch boot.img's for you.
Almost every gs4 version has their own versions of each kernel built off of the aboot and boot images of the stock files. For instance ktoonsez has a kernel available for all the carriers and one for touchwiz and one for aosp. If you are running stock you would simply flash his kernel for TW and it would install just fine on the stock ROM without you knowing anything about loki or how it works.
To be honest, I don't know enough about the actual vulnerabilities and exploits to FULLY understand loki. But I don't need to. It works. I plan to learn more about root vulnerabilities later. But I can only work on so much at once.
You can flash other carrier's kernels, but I wouldn't recommend it if there are kernels that suit your need for your carrier. I say this because I did loki the 4.3 kernel designed for the 9505 and got it working on my vzw gs4. BUT things may be broken or not fully working due to the differences in the kernels themselves. If you don't want to tear into things, it's best to just run the one for your phone.
I think I got it all. Maybe not though.
The best way to learn is with a nexus device. You can't brick that thing if you tried, and even if you were trying, you'd have to know what you were doing to brick it.
I mean, as long as you have the money to replace your phone, and don't mind not having an operational phone, dive right in. I've gone a weekend without a phone, stayed up til 2am trying to fix my phone when I had to be at work at 6:30, but I like to tinker with stuff and I'm fine with that.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Yeah I've bricked my gnex before and I learned a lot from it. There is almost always a way to fix a bricked phone whether its Odin or somehow flashing a new ROM. And like what was said before there is only a 1% chance you'll actually brick your phone. A lot of people think they are bricked when it is only a soft brick instead.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Hey All -
I've been digging, and I tend to be a lurker, but I'm not finding a safe place to put this.
In short, I am still running a rooted MDK. I have TWRP.
It used to be a huge deal for me to run a custom ROM et all because I needed to get the most out of my phone, but now that I have a great plan and an awesome phone, I found my need to flash not that big of a deal, so I'm toying with the idea of upgrading. I came here and started digging around. I found no real answer.
What I am looking for from the more seasoned and skilled members is, what would you do if you had MDK, unlimited Data/Wifi Hotspot? Would you just flash a 4.3 ROM and the new MJ7 Modem? Or would you just flash a stock ROM with the stock Recovery and take the OTA?
I'd like to keep Root, but (as I said) it's not necessary to have it at this moment, but if waiting long enough means I can basically get a stock MJ7 without the KNOX and pre-rooted, I'd be down.
Give me your thoughts.
mastridonicus said:
Hey All -
I've been digging, and I tend to be a lurker, but I'm not finding a safe place to put this.
In short, I am still running a rooted MDK. I have TWRP.
It used to be a huge deal for me to run a custom ROM et all because I needed to get the most out of my phone, but now that I have a great plan and an awesome phone, I found my need to flash not that big of a deal, so I'm toying with the idea of upgrading. I came here and started digging around. I found no real answer.
What I am looking for from the more seasoned and skilled members is, what would you do if you had MDK, unlimited Data/Wifi Hotspot? Would you just flash a 4.3 ROM and the new MJ7 Modem? Or would you just flash a stock ROM with the stock Recovery and take the OTA?
I'd like to keep Root, but (as I said) it's not necessary to have it at this moment, but if waiting long enough means I can basically get a stock MJ7 without the KNOX and pre-rooted, I'd be down.
Give me your thoughts.
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I struggled when I had to type the response to this. Not because I didn't know the answer, but because I didn't know how to ask you why you didn't already know the answer? You're giving up what you already were taking for granted just for the sake of what? Not trying to be mean, just trying to understand.
Surge1223 said:
I struggled when I had to type the response to this. Not because I didn't know the answer, but because I didn't know how to ask you why you didn't already know the answer? You're giving up what you already were taking for granted just for the sake of what? Not trying to be mean, just trying to understand.
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No worries man, I didn't take offense to your question at all . It's all good.
Well, it's not a matter of taking something for granted -- if that were the case, I'd just do it and through forethought to the wind. What I'm looking for is what experienced eyes may see which could offer me a path I didn't think of.
I like the open-ended ability a completely accessible (s-OFF, Custom Recovery, rooted, etc) allows for me to do. I like having the options, but I don't need them right now. This questions is, in essence, a "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I've seen people suggest waiting, flashing just the modem, upgrading for all the performance increases, upgrading just for the new release and all that, but no one tying it all together for the most open-ended "I have an MDK and want to get on 4.3" solution.
I know I can flash to ME1 then OTA it to get to Stock 4.3 with root but wind up with KNOX. Is there a better way? Is there a way I'm not thinking of?
Thanks for reading!
You'll potentially lose the freedom to run custom roms forever... there's no guarantee that the bootloaders on ME7 and later will be unlocked so there's a chance you'll be stuck when Verizon stops updating the S4. You can run a stock rom on MDK all you want so I'm not sure what would be your motivation to jump the gun here... I'm sure an MJ7 based rom to flash will show up in no time...
I'd you do want to update I'm sure there are some devs that would be glad to trade you phones.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
Crawshayi said:
You'll potentially lose the freedom to run custom roms forever... there's no guarantee that the bootloaders on ME7 and later will be unlocked so there's a chance you'll be stuck when Verizon stops updating the S4. You can run a stock rom on MDK all you want so I'm not sure what would be your motivation to jump the gun here... I'm sure an MJ7 based rom to flash will show up in no time...
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Thanks -- I'm not motivated to jump the gun, just answering a question while I have time to. Ironically, I did get the B.S. line from support that my problem was due to not having the latest OTA.
When you say:
I'm sure an MJ7 based rom to flash will show up in no time.
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Click to collapse
, you're essentially stating that we'll have an MJ7 ROM that may carry some combination of Rooted, De-KNOX'd so that we can use 4.3 and still have our custom recovery? This would be what I'm looking for.
Sorry to be dense.
I'll probably just flash the modem then.
Just relax there should be a mj7 rom to flash before long.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
mastridonicus said:
Thanks -- I'm not motivated to jump the gun, just answering a question while I have time to. Ironically, I did get the B.S. line from support that my problem was due to not having the latest OTA.
When you say: , you're essentially stating that we'll have an MJ7 ROM that may carry some combination of Rooted, De-KNOX'd so that we can use 4.3 and still have our custom recovery? This would be what I'm looking for.
Sorry to be dense.
I'll probably just flash the modem then.
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Click to collapse
Yep exactly... there are already roms based on ME7 and MI1 that are close to stock with minor modifications, so of course there will be some of the same with MJ7 eventually. Just have patience and be glad you have the choices you do... some of us (like me) are stuck with a locked bootloader and we can only dream.
mastridonicus said:
No worries man, I didn't take offense to your question at all . It's all good.
Well, it's not a matter of taking something for granted -- if that were the case, I'd just do it and through forethought to the wind. What I'm looking for is what experienced eyes may see which could offer me a path I didn't think of.
I like the open-ended ability a completely accessible (s-OFF, Custom Recovery, rooted, etc) allows for me to do. I like having the options, but I don't need them right now. This questions is, in essence, a "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I've seen people suggest waiting, flashing just the modem, upgrading for all the performance increases, upgrading just for the new release and all that, but no one tying it all together for the most open-ended "I have an MDK and want to get on 4.3" solution.
I know I can flash to ME1 then OTA it to get to Stock 4.3 with root but wind up with KNOX. Is there a better way? Is there a way I'm not thinking of?
Thanks for reading!
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Click to collapse
The point that your missing is there is no back, I changed my mind, or let me try something else. Samsung is trying to get the corporate enterprise business, which means ultra secure bootloaders and blacklisted updates that cause changes in qfuses which a physical change can not be un done by any software. So the unlocked phone will become increasing rare and harder to maintain. So a more apt example is time. You can spend it, but you can never get it back. The only route is to wait or give up cannot be gotten back.
Sent from my BNTV250A using xda app-developers app
mastridonicus said:
No worries man, I didn't take offense to your question at all . It's all good.
Well, it's not a matter of taking something for granted -- if that were the case, I'd just do it and through forethought to the wind. What I'm looking for is what experienced eyes may see which could offer me a path I didn't think of.
I like the open-ended ability a completely accessible (s-OFF, Custom Recovery, rooted, etc) allows for me to do. I like having the options, but I don't need them right now. This questions is, in essence, a "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I've seen people suggest waiting, flashing just the modem, upgrading for all the performance increases, upgrading just for the new release and all that, but no one tying it all together for the most open-ended "I have an MDK and want to get on 4.3" solution.
I know I can flash to ME1 then OTA it to get to Stock 4.3 with root but wind up with KNOX. Is there a better way? Is there a way I'm not thinking of?
Thanks for reading!
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Click to collapse
I have to say that I was not expecting such a well thought out answer, but you have to realize that we've seen people upgrade from MDK just because they don't like how the "custom" splash screen appears and they wanted to get rid of it, or to get the newest S Voice or something. Interestingly enough, while you see it as "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I see it as "Just because it earns them more money, doesn't justify the existence and enforcement of having to use/see or be in the presence of the abomination that is Vz Navigator." But in all seriousness, my view is probably closer to this.
O gawd.... the hacker's manifesto lol.. you're making me feel old.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Crawshayi said:
You'll potentially lose the freedom to run custom roms forever...
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Don't you think that, as KNOX implementation (and greater) grows, that there will be less custom ROMS for the device? My search shows many have past the point of no return with the first OTA.[/QUOTE]
Surge1223 said:
I have to say that I was not expecting such a well thought out answer, but you have to realize that we've seen people upgrade from MDK just because they don't like how the "custom" splash screen appears and they wanted to get rid of it, or to get the newest S Voice or something. Interestingly enough, while you see it as "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I see it as "Just because it earns them more money, doesn't justify the existence and enforcement of having to use/see or be in the presence of the abomination that is Vz Navigator." But in all seriousness, my view is probably closer to this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I screwed up, I meant to say "Even though I have the money, I don't have to spend it." Sorry about that . I see your point though and while I'm more naturally your way, I did chuckle at the Hacker's Manifesto. While I still agree with the manifesto, it can't be all encompassing anymore. Technology is in our every day lives, and you'd have to approach your life like a monk with supreme dedication and limitation to maintain that view in it's entirety. It's better to maintain that focus in the areas that are most relevant to you in technology and maintaining the guidelines of simplicity there.
Surge1223 said:
I have to say that I was not expecting such a well thought out answer, but you have to realize that we've seen people upgrade from MDK just because they don't like how the "custom" splash screen appears and they wanted to get rid of it, or to get the newest S Voice or something. Interestingly enough, while you see it as "Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I need to save it."
I see it as "Just because it earns them more money, doesn't justify the existence and enforcement of having to use/see or be in the presence of the abomination that is Vz Navigator." But in all seriousness, my view is probably closer to this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Omg a hacker's manifesto reference lol flashback.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I rooted my Verizon S4, froze all of the bloatware with ROM Toolbox Pro, and now it's fast as hell. The battery lasts 2 days with moderate use, FoxFi hotspot works, and I don't get any security warnings (froze your ass KNOX). I've installed SafeStrap 3.71, and I've tried installing HypderDrive, but it hasn't been able to stick. The bootloader is totally locked down, so Hashcode's SafeStrap seems to be the only thing keeping any hope alive for something that will work.
I guess the real frustrating thing is that there is no real unity between developers here, and that no one can decide on a route to go with. This leaves a lot of us who just got the S4 with fewer, or no ROM options. Is it time we accepted that a bootloader solution might not be the way to go, and attack it using something like SafeStrap? I've been using SafeStrap on my Droid 4 for a long time, and it is the best alternative, and in many ways, superior to unlocking a bootloader. Sure you get issues regarding space for more than one ROM install, but having your stock ROM intact is an excellent fail safe. There are some other constrictions, but the manpower potential could really bring results to a dual-boot system like SafeStrap.
My deal here is, let's get behind HashCode on this, and maybe he can share his work with the rest of the developer community, and we can all contribute some funds to make something like SafeStrap work, which it most definitely can. Imagine if we could get Cyanogenmod developers working on SafeStrap with HashCode to come up with ROMs that would actually work like they do with an unlocked bootloader. There is a somewhat steep learning curve with SafeStrap, but with resources comes better documentation. People are too quick to jump on a 1-click rooting method, and leave the rest of us behind. If SafeStrap got enough attention, maybe it could someday be a one-click solution that no one at Samsung, Motorola, or HTC could ever lock down.
Let me know what you think.
RueTheDayTrebek said:
I've been using SafeStrap on my Droid 4 for a long time, and it is the best alternative, and in many ways, superior to unlocking a bootloader. Sure you get issues regarding space for more than one ROM install, but having your stock ROM intact is an excellent fail safe. There are some other constrictions, but the manpower potential could really bring results to a dual-boot system like SafeStrap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Love Hashcode and that he designed SafeStrap as i have used it on my Droid Bionic prior to getting the S4 (im still on MDK). But I would never say it's superior to unlocking a bootloader in any sense. I can say maybe convenient for quicker swapping of roms but I can't see SS being better then an unlocked Bootloader.
But the rest of you post im totally on board with. Id rather an unlocked Bootloader and be able to get OTA's with the correct kernels then a port where some things won't work since were still on the original or a previous kernel.
RueTheDayTrebek said:
I rooted my Verizon S4, froze all of the bloatware with ROM Toolbox Pro, and now it's fast as hell. The battery lasts 2 days with moderate use, FoxFi hotspot works, and I don't get any security warnings (froze your ass KNOX). I've installed SafeStrap 3.71, and I've tried installing HypderDrive, but it hasn't been able to stick. The bootloader is totally locked down, so Hashcode's SafeStrap seems to be the only thing keeping any hope alive for something that will work.
I guess the real frustrating thing is that there is no real unity between developers here, and that no one can decide on a route to go with. This leaves a lot of us who just got the S4 with fewer, or no ROM options. Is it time we accepted that a bootloader solution might not be the way to go, and attack it using something like SafeStrap? I've been using SafeStrap on my Droid 4 for a long time, and it is the best alternative, and in many ways, superior to unlocking a bootloader. Sure you get issues regarding space for more than one ROM install, but having your stock ROM intact is an excellent fail safe. There are some other constrictions, but the manpower potential could really bring results to a dual-boot system like SafeStrap.
My deal here is, let's get behind HashCode on this, and maybe he can share his work with the rest of the developer community, and we can all contribute some funds to make something like SafeStrap work, which it most definitely can. Imagine if we could get Cyanogenmod developers working on SafeStrap with HashCode to come up with ROMs that would actually work like they do with an unlocked bootloader. There is a somewhat steep learning curve with SafeStrap, but with resources comes better documentation. People are too quick to jump on a 1-click rooting method, and leave the rest of us behind. If SafeStrap got enough attention, maybe it could someday be a one-click solution that no one at Samsung, Motorola, or HTC could ever lock down.
Let me know what you think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD 12 is about as flawless as one would expect for a custom rom. Im happy with it and honestly if there were more options, I doubt I would move away from it. Thats just my opinion though. What do you mean it didnt stick?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium HD app
The development community on the S4 took a pretty big hit with the whole boot loader thing. Hopefully hash can figure out Kexec and hopefully we can get more dev support...
But until then safestrap IS here, it does have roms and it works great. Not sure exactly what your looking for?
Can you detail what your doing to advance the community, and how you want us to help you?
scryan said:
The development community on the S4 took a pretty big hit with the whole boot loader thing. Hopefully hash can figure out Kexec and hopefully we can get more dev support...
But until then safestrap IS here, it does have roms and it works great. Not sure exactly what your looking for?
Can you detail what your doing to advance the community, and how you want us to help you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about? Did you get my post mixed up with the op's?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Bradh024 said:
What are you talking about? Did you get my post mixed up with the op's?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. lol sorry just hit the "Reply" button with out noticing its the same as most forums Quote button.... Just meant to reply.
scryan said:
Yup. lol sorry just hit the "Reply" button with out noticing its the same as most forums Quote button.... Just meant to reply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh I gotcha. Had me confused for a minute there. lol
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
RueTheDayTrebek said:
I rooted my Verizon S4, froze all of the bloatware with ROM Toolbox Pro, and now it's fast as hell. The battery lasts 2 days with moderate use, FoxFi hotspot works, and I don't get any security warnings (froze your ass KNOX). I've installed SafeStrap 3.71, and I've tried installing HypderDrive, but it hasn't been able to stick. The bootloader is totally locked down, so Hashcode's SafeStrap seems to be the only thing keeping any hope alive for something that will work.
I guess the real frustrating thing is that there is no real unity between developers here, and that no one can decide on a route to go with. This leaves a lot of us who just got the S4 with fewer, or no ROM options. Is it time we accepted that a bootloader solution might not be the way to go, and attack it using something like SafeStrap? I've been using SafeStrap on my Droid 4 for a long time, and it is the best alternative, and in many ways, superior to unlocking a bootloader. Sure you get issues regarding space for more than one ROM install, but having your stock ROM intact is an excellent fail safe. There are some other constrictions, but the manpower potential could really bring results to a dual-boot system like SafeStrap.
My deal here is, let's get behind HashCode on this, and maybe he can share his work with the rest of the developer community, and we can all contribute some funds to make something like SafeStrap work, which it most definitely can. Imagine if we could get Cyanogenmod developers working on SafeStrap with HashCode to come up with ROMs that would actually work like they do with an unlocked bootloader. There is a somewhat steep learning curve with SafeStrap, but with resources comes better documentation. People are too quick to jump on a 1-click rooting method, and leave the rest of us behind. If SafeStrap got enough attention, maybe it could someday be a one-click solution that no one at Samsung, Motorola, or HTC could ever lock down.
Let me know what you think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what makes you think there is no unity or communication between devs on this issue? The fact of the matter is, the security lockdown is pretty steep and in the end, no work around can be possible.
decaturbob said:
what makes you think there is no unity or communication between devs on this issue? The fact of the matter is, the security lockdown is pretty steep and in the end, no work around can be possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my point about the bootloader, that in time, every carrier is going to put their phones on lockdown. It just makes sense to move to a newer concept than trying to unlock the bootloader. Is hijacking the boot order, what SafeStrap does, the right way to go? What about overwriting the kernel and bypassing the bootloader altogether? I remember Hashcode was working with kexec, and for those of you who were there a couple of years ago when SafeStrap was first there for the Motorla RZR, D4, and Bionic, might remember this. It executes a live kernel overwrite, before the bootloader can even come up to verify the signed stock rom/firmware/bootloader.
I've read a couple of people mentioning this, but I'm not sure if its feasible. My point, SafeStrap and KEXEC are two options that need some blockbuster support. Hashcode is the Zeus of Mt. SafeStrape, but where is the God of War and the rest of the bunch to kick ass? Can we pick a direction?
Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, maybe my message isn't the one that needs to be heard? I haven't posted much over the last couple of years, but I've done a lot of reading over the last few weeks, and I'm just curious if there is a Bat Signal they can use to summon the Justice League and put their collective boots up the ass of Lex Luthor (Verizon and co.)?
RueTheDayTrebek said:
That's my point about the bootloader, that in time, every carrier is going to put their phones on lockdown. It just makes sense to move to a newer concept than trying to unlock the bootloader. Is hijacking the boot order, what SafeStrap does, the right way to go? What about overwriting the kernel and bypassing the bootloader altogether? I remember Hashcode was working with kexec, and for those of you who were there a couple of years ago when SafeStrap was first there for the Motorla RZR, D4, and Bionic, might remember this. It executes a live kernel overwrite, before the bootloader can even come up to verify the signed stock rom/firmware/bootloader.
I've read a couple of people mentioning this, but I'm not sure if its feasible. My point, SafeStrap and KEXEC are two options that need some blockbuster support. Hashcode is the Zeus of Mt. SafeStrape, but where is the God of War and the rest of the bunch to kick ass? Can we pick a direction?
Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, maybe my message isn't the one that needs to be heard? I haven't posted much over the last couple of years, but I've done a lot of reading over the last few weeks, and I'm just curious if there is a Bat Signal they can use to summon the Justice League and put their collective boots up the ass of Lex Luthor (Verizon and co.)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Put it this way:
I'm with you 100%... WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?
Because right now, your basically saying "DEVELOP MORE STUFF FOR ME SO I DON'T HAVE TO, LOLZ".
You just saying we should do things better is not a plan, what are you actually doing here to move this thing forwards?
BTW:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2578566
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2500826
Its not just like "BOOM! Here is Kexec!"
Its not like the people you are suggesting should put together a software package for you phone for free are not working on it... Its just hard.
RueTheDayTrebek said:
That's my point about the bootloader, that in time, every carrier is going to put their phones on lockdown. It just makes sense to move to a newer concept than trying to unlock the bootloader. Is hijacking the boot order, what SafeStrap does, the right way to go? What about overwriting the kernel and bypassing the bootloader altogether? I remember Hashcode was working with kexec, and for those of you who were there a couple of years ago when SafeStrap was first there for the Motorla RZR, D4, and Bionic, might remember this. It executes a live kernel overwrite, before the bootloader can even come up to verify the signed stock rom/firmware/bootloader.
I've read a couple of people mentioning this, but I'm not sure if its feasible. My point, SafeStrap and KEXEC are two options that need some blockbuster support. Hashcode is the Zeus of Mt. SafeStrape, but where is the God of War and the rest of the bunch to kick ass? Can we pick a direction?
Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, maybe my message isn't the one that needs to be heard? I haven't posted much over the last couple of years, but I've done a lot of reading over the last few weeks, and I'm just curious if there is a Bat Signal they can use to summon the Justice League and put their collective boots up the ass of Lex Luthor (Verizon and co.)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude. There are people working on this, believe me. And people who arent developers or cant contribute directly have posted a bounty to reward whoever can get a workaround. Safestrap does work, regardless of whether you are able to get it to work on your device. I'm guessing its user error. Not really sure what more you expect the community or Hashcode or any other dev to do that they arent already doing...
First, and foremost, hello. I am new here, and I'm glad to be a part of the forum. Secondly, I'd like to apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section.
The topic I'd like to ask you a few questions about today is ROM Flashing, and the steps I should be taking to stay safe. I originally started playing around with Android devices around a year ago, but I recently started to delve deeper. I am the proud owner of an AT&T ZTE Z998 Mustang, and I have rooted it successfully. While in the process of rooting, I saw all of the warnings of how I should do a NANDROID backup, so that was my first instinct. I tried installing Clockworkmod, but to my dismay, they did not have an official version for my phone. I did happen to get lucky and find a version someone ported on their own. I attempted for a whole night before falling prey to error after error, and decided to give up. I went on without any backups, fiddling with my device. Luckily, I did not mess anything up, except for "accidentally" deleting the AT&T startup animation. (Haha.) Tonight, though, I happened to get the urge again, so I made some more attempts. After receiving the same error, I decided to look that error up word for word, and found that I did not have enough room on my Micro SD. I managed to clear enough room, and jumped in joy when I saw that I could delete an app, then restore and have it be back again. It was quite a big accomplishment for me. I've decided that I want to try flashing a custom ROM. The ROM I have chosen is the MIUI ROM. It seems quite popular, and I enjoy the iOS-esq feel of it, as well as its seamless theme changing. The only problem is, there is not an official release for my device. In fact, I have yet to find any ROM with an official release for my device. That is why I am coming to you guys.
My Questions:
Can I use a ROM that has not been specifically made for my device?
Will I still be connected to the AT&T Network?
If so, can I expect errors?
Am I truly safe with this newly acquired backup?
Anything you think I should know?
I'd like to thank you for any help in advance.
BrendonButton said:
First, and foremost, hello. I am new here, and I'm glad to be a part of the forum. Secondly, I'd like to apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section.
The topic I'd like to ask you a few questions about today is ROM Flashing, and the steps I should be taking to stay safe. I originally started playing around with Android devices around a year ago, but I recently started to delve deeper. I am the proud owner of an AT&T ZTE Z998 Mustang, and I have rooted it successfully. While in the process of rooting, I saw all of the warnings of how I should do a NANDROID backup, so that was my first instinct. I tried installing Clockworkmod, but to my dismay, they did not have an official version for my phone. I did happen to get lucky and find a version someone ported on their own. I attempted for a whole night before falling prey to error after error, and decided to give up. I went on without any backups, fiddling with my device. Luckily, I did not mess anything up, except for "accidentally" deleting the AT&T startup animation. (Haha.) Tonight, though, I happened to get the urge again, so I made some more attempts. After receiving the same error, I decided to look that error up word for word, and found that I did not have enough room on my Micro SD. I managed to clear enough room, and jumped in joy when I saw that I could delete an app, then restore and have it be back again. It was quite a big accomplishment for me. I've decided that I want to try flashing a custom ROM. The ROM I have chosen is the MIUI ROM. It seems quite popular, and I enjoy the iOS-esq feel of it, as well as its seamless theme changing. The only problem is, there is not an official release for my device. In fact, I have yet to find any ROM with an official release for my device. That is why I am coming to you guys.
My Questions:
Can I use a ROM that has not been specifically made for my device?
Will I still be connected to the AT&T Network?
If so, can I expect errors?
Am I truly safe with this newly acquired backup?
Anything you think I should know?
I'd like to thank you for any help in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bump.
Hi there. Welcome to the forums!
Unfortunately, the bad thing about phones that aren't very popular in the grand scheme of things means less people have them = less people making stuff for it. Developers often end up picking phones that are going to have more support from the manufacturer and more people will be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. This of course, is a general rule, and of course there are exceptions, but your phone doesn't seem to be one of them. Companies like ZTE aren't concerned about putting out the source code for phones like this means that it is hard, to almost impossible, to make a really custom rom work correctly due to driver issues among other things.
So to answer the questions:
1) Sometimes, but very dependent on the models, carriers, and which software updates. General rule of thumb is that if it isn't based off the same chipset, it won't have a chance of working. But there are lots of other things to consider to, like radio versions, bootloader status, partition layout, etc. Long story short, there's no easy answer and there are lots of caveats.
2) + 3) See above.
4) You SHOULD be safe if CWM told you that the nandroid was completed successfully, but just like any other software based things, things happen.
Best way to be safe is to be able to reflash the original firmware for the phone back to it, but not even sure if that's an option for you - which goes back to ZTE not giving a $^!* about these cheap little phones for small prepaid companies. They save money by not doing any extra work like providing firmware, updates, source code, etc.
The only forums I know that mess with these kinds of things are:
http://unleashedprepaids.com/forum-1491.html
Not for your phone specifically, but similar ones:
http://androidarea51.com/zte-phones/
So yea, slim pickings.
es0tericcha0s said:
Helpful Info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, thank you! I was waiting all day. I was a little disappointed with the answer, though. v.v Do you know if there are any ROMS that will work with ANY device? Like even bare minerals versions of AOSP ROMS that have yet to be touched?
Also, I am slowly saving for a 64GB Black Nexus 5, so I shouldn't be stuck but more than a month or more so.
BrendonButton said:
First, thank you! I was waiting all day. I was a little disappointed with the answer, though. v.v Do you know if there are any ROMS that will work with ANY device? Like even bare minerals versions of AOSP ROMS that have yet to be touched?
Also, I am slowly saving for a 64GB Black Nexus 5, so I shouldn't be stuck but more than a month or more so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, sorry. It's just not possible. Your best hope would be to use the debloated rom in the unleashed prepaids forum and use the Xposed Framework.
http://unleashedprepaids.com/thread-8769.html
http://unleashedprepaids.com/thread-8771.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/framework-xposed-rom-modding-modifying-t1574401
http://repo.xposed.info/module-overview
I have the Nexus 5 (don't think they come in 64 - only 16/32) but it's awesome and there are so many roms that it'll make your head spin. lol
es0tericcha0s said:
No, sorry. It's just not possible. Your best hope would be to use the debloated rom in the unleashed prepaids forum and use the Xposed Framework.
http://unleashedprepaids.com/thread-8769.html
http://unleashedprepaids.com/thread-8771.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/framework-xposed-rom-modding-modifying-t1574401
http://repo.xposed.info/module-overview
I have the Nexus 5 (don't think they come in 64 - only 16/32) but it's awesome and there are so many roms that it'll make your head spin. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant. xD
But, I can not wait for it!
Just some final thoughts and questions:
I do have Xposed installed already, but have yet to look around in it due to the hundreds of modules. Do you have any suggestions about which I should look at for cosmetic needs? I have tried to use Gravitybox, but it force closed upon entry every time I used it, so I deleted it.
I understand that the limitation is very high because of the fact that it is a closed sourced company, but many ZTE Devices are listed to have compatible ROMS, such as MIUI ROM. If I try to use a ROM specified for a different phone, do you know what could happen? I feel that it may not even open, or if it does, it'll have tons of errors and not work upon entry, or even work but have certain things like the camera that will not connect. I'm only worried about high margins of fatal breakage. If it is some silly error that I won't have to "worry" about, I'm okay with fooling around.
If I do try to install a new ROM, but want to go back, will it affect anything on my previous backup? I know backups copy EVERYTHING, but I'd just like to make sure I won't do serious damage.
Lastly, thank you for all the help. It means a ton.
BrendonButton said:
Oops, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant. xD
But, I can not wait for it!
Just some final thoughts and questions:
I do have Xposed installed already, but have yet to look around in it due to the hundreds of modules. Do you have any suggestions about which I should look at for cosmetic needs? I have tried to use Gravitybox, but it force closed upon entry every time I used it, so I deleted it.
I understand that the limitation is very high because of the fact that it is a closed sourced company, but many ZTE Devices are listed to have compatible ROMS, such as MIUI ROM. If I try to use a ROM specified for a different phone, do you know what could happen? I feel that it may not even open, or if it does, it'll have tons of errors and not work upon entry, or even work but have certain things like the camera that will not connect. I'm only worried about high margins of fatal breakage. If it is some silly error that I won't have to "worry" about, I'm okay with fooling around.
If I do try to install a new ROM, but want to go back, will it affect anything on my previous backup? I know backups copy EVERYTHING, but I'd just like to make sure I won't do serious damage.
Lastly, thank you for all the help. It means a ton.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gravity Box wouldn't work because it is for more AOSP based things. As far as theming goes, you can try HK Theme Manager or Ex Themer. For the idea of trying to install a rom for another ZTE phone, well, best case scenario is that it doesn't flash at all. Worst case is that it does flash, and you lose something like your IMEI, baseband, or one or more of your other partitions and all of those are potentially unrecoverable, no matter what kind of backups you have. This wouldn't be one of those, "Oh, shoot, that didn't work, I'll just factory reset or restore my backup and be good to go..." kind of situations.
es0tericcha0s said:
Gravity Box wouldn't work because it is for more AOSP based things. As far as theming goes, you can try HK Theme Manager or Ex Themer. For the idea of trying to install a rom for another ZTE phone, well, best case scenario is that it doesn't flash at all. Worst case is that it does flash, and you lose something like your IMEI, baseband, or one or more of your other partitions and all of those are potentially unrecoverable, no matter what kind of backups you have. This wouldn't be one of those, "Oh, shoot, that didn't work, I'll just factory reset or restore my backup and be good to go..." kind of situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, wow! Thanks! I'm glad you pointed that out before I tried. So, I should be okay as long as I flash that ROM from the Unleashed Prepaid page? Now I am afraid, but curious.
Also, thank you for the theme modules names, I will kindly note them.
Should be fine. It's 95% stock and I'm sure they only had one version of android for the phone so should be pretty close to what you have now. Benefits would be the unsecured boot.img which is easier for root and other things to stick, init.d which allows you to run scripts (everything from being able to mount a partition of an SD card to use for extra space for apps to memory management stuff like V6 Supercharger), and a bit easier to theme and debloat.
es0tericcha0s said:
Should be fine. It's 95% stock and I'm sure they only had one version of android for the phone so should be pretty close to what you have now. Benefits would be the unsecured boot.img which is easier for root and other things to stick, init.d which allows you to run scripts (everything from being able to mount a partition of an SD card to use for extra space for apps to memory management stuff like V6 Supercharger), and a bit easier to theme and debloat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
I'll look into it tonight. I will try and tell about what happens tomorrow-ish.
Cool. Good luck.