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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
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I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
While there are many reasons one might want a smartphone, my chief reason for wanting an android smartphone was ideological: software should be free/ capable devices shouldn't be hobbled/ users' right to understand and control their devices, etc. I'm a total n00b in the scheme of things, but I've been trying to gradually gain an understanding of how everything works, and (for me) screwing things up is often the best to learn. The vibrant was an excellent choice for me, I've had it since the end of summer and have been having a lot of fun seeing what I can do with it while following the dev community here. So after flashing lord knows how many roms/kernels/modems etc in the past few months with mixed results (some went smoothly as anticipated, others not so much lol), this is the big question on my mind: What rules of thumb can help me avoid being a n00b forever?
In the threads about almost all roms/kernels, there are countless "KTHX DUDE IS THIS SAFE TO FLASH OVER XXXXXXX THAT I'M RUNNING???? AND EVEN THO THIS POST IS 39 SECONDS OLD, HOW IS BATTERY???"
Not that i'm even allowed to post in the vibrant android dev forum atm, but when I am, I don't wanna be that guy. So, other than trial by fire or waiting to see how more intrepid members have fared, how do you figure out the answer to that question? I'm assuming system build (i.e. KA2/KB1/etc...not sure if that's what to call it) has something to do with it, as well as filesystem configuration...but that's not specific enough for me to establish anything other than that I should really make a nandroid backup JIC...
Any helpful rules of thumb? I know getting a better understanding of the system in general is the REAL answer, but i figure this is a start right here ;x
Thanks in advance!
Nico
Read everything you can before posting questions!
Try and solve the problem yourself. For me the fun of modding your phone is in the process, not the end result. (I think of the result as a reward for my work)
Find joy in using your knowledge before crying for help.
Post mature, concise, intelligent and grammatically correct responses.
Don't demand or expect help, this forum is a privilege.
HAVE FUN. If something is a chore to you, it begs the question "Why am I even doing this?".
Lastly, respect fellow forum members! We're all here for the same reason.
There isn't a book you can read that will transform you from a noob to a 1337hax0r overnight. It takes years of learning and practice to become a developer, but if you're patient and not annoying, you will still be respected here.
Also I see alot of people asking the same questions over and over. To kinda check to see if the question you want to ask has been asked just take a little time and use the search function for the thread. You will be surprised.
Like joey and tc said. Before I joined the forums I lurked and lurked for months just reading all the stickies, checking all the questions being asked and scanning the rom threads for useful info. You never want to be the battery question guy or the disable voodoo person.
I'm still building my "street cred" here before I start a question thread. If you see a new guy asking a question, try and help out. point them to the answer with a smile. Most of all have fun.
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?
Personally I think 80% of what gets posted in development isn't development. IMO hail to the TP mods for getting the Q and A section added!
If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions.
The 10 post rule is to weed out spammers. It isn't hard to get 10 legit helpful posts.
Sent from something with a Ｋモ尺れモㄥ.
Jwoc12 said:
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
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Hello there.
Trust me I understand the frustration. I don't like it much either. But the monster has been created and we need to tame it. The bigger question is how.
I personally don't like building up thread counts and can attribute a ton of posts are not dev related.
One idea I'm working on is cleaning up the OP with more usable content to help the new comers and help guide those that are not. I am working on a Q&A link that will be a PDF that helps shine light on some of the problems we have. Also there is room for me to make a very initiative installation guide in PDF form for people to print and have the ability to make notes to help guide thru the process.
While people jump the gun and are on attack mode at times, many times they aren't. The thread is so large its hard to even search for answers so that's where I get the point. I hope you don't let ur frustrations stop you from using the rom.
I also plan on talking to a few people that can help answer via pm. This will take the load off.
I appreciate ur feedback and support and just know that 99% of the guys are good folks.
Have a good one
~leo
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
"So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?"
Didn't say either...point was, I couldn't respond directly in the development forum...
"If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions."
That's just funny....proves my point, somewhat (though I guess I didn't ask a question). I can't "contribute" for 2 reasons; first, don't have enough posts, second, don't know enough. That's why I go there numerous times a day, to try and learn. Someday, I hope I can contribute. Right now I do it with my pocket book. (Is that one word or two?). However, if you ever need help with an insurance claim, I can knock your socks off!
Seriously and thank you again as usual Leo. I know the vast majority of folks are trying to be helpful. There are a few right now though that post a lot and many of those posts are not helpful, just rude (I had a tough day at work, try managing an insurance claims dept, talk about rude). Sorry about the 500 too, should have read more carefully...
I'm typing this on my computer. I just started getting "FCs" with the XDA app, not kidding... what are the chances...suppose I got what I deserved...
Everyone, have a great weekend.
I know of the posts you're referring too, and most of the reason why we're getting aggravated is because most of the answers can be found in the OP of the thread. It's gets really old when we're told 15 times a day that wifi doesn't work.
Sent from my GT-i9100 (faux Touchpad) using Tapatalk.
Ill tell you whats equally annoying. When you subscribe to a Dev thread to see when something gets updated, and you get an email notification every time someone responds with "cant wait" or "me too" or "this+1". I understand people are excited, Im excited for it too, but its seems people just like posting for the sake of posting. If I was a dev trying to follow what problems people were having, Id pull my hair out trying to weed through all the nonsense.
And now for the ever so annoying....."end rant." (hate that equally)
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
Thar
slicedcheese said:
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
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That Azrienoch video is great. He put a lot of time in making that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
I understand what u meen op and i wanna help people out too but 90% of the stuff on those forums is flying on the internet and noone cares to search. Just google it. Tthats the first place i look at and 9/10 times the answer is there. Also if u really want to help someone out and you acnt because u got restricted send them a PM and carry on. This way u help the guy out and dont spend 1h arguing with somebody over something offtopick.
Sent from my HTC Ruby using XDA App
Dubble post
Jwoc12 said:
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
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Everyone calls me Krunk
I put my FAQ in my signature to help with most questions regarding the Touchpad
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Jwoc12, I re read what you wrote and just want to say thanks for reminding me of when I first got my OG Droid back in the day. I've always been good with tech, I'm even a 2ND level network admin, but boy do I remember feeling over whelmed just rooting Froyo back then, haha.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I agree with the rants on both sides in this thread.
I understand the need to "weed out the newbs", but 10 posts doesn't make someone think any more than not having 10 posts makes them brainless.
On the on other hand, it will weed out those who just want to show up and quickly troll (you have to be a dedicated troll to get past the restriction).
I've been frustrated many, many times with the fact that I cannot respond to questions that I know I can answer... one I answered via pm, but I don't think the person ever noticed.
One thing I find extremely confusing is how people are getting around these limits.
I've seen more than a few posts in the XRON dev thread by people with only 2 or 3 posts! (yet another just showed up, asking a question that I can answer)
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
mini rant
While I understand your frustration I just can not agree with you on several comments you made. The thread that you are speaking about is extremely long as you stated. You stated yourself that you read every post and go through pages of posts per day. And let me say that I thank you for doing the right thing and reading everything before posting.
I do work 10 hour days and while yes it would be easier for me to rude and just ask a question in the middle of a thread that has already been answered or addressed I dont do it. Why? Its rude and lazy. These extra posts waste everyone's time because everyone that follows the thread has that many more post to read and go through. Its a huge waste of time.
I hate to go on a little mindless rant but I do not like the way of thinking that people have today. Its a me first attitude. They dont read whats already posted or google it(which takes 2 seconds). Instead they cut off the flow of the post or conversation to ask a question that is not relevant or has already been answered.
I myself have yet to ask a question. Why? Am I super smart? NO I am not. But by reading the posts and googling what I had trouble finding I was able to find my answers.
Ok sorry about my rant. Everyone can go back to what they were doing. I just had to get this out as I have seen way too much of this lately.
theniel said:
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
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It's not obvious which one of us you're responding to, but it is moderately obvious that you're trolling, but I'll bite anyways just in case you're actually serious (and referring to me).
XDA, even in the general section, when you're under 10 posts, limits you to 1 post per 5 minutes (this includes editing your own posts for accuracy, which is how I found out). So much for your "only a few minutes" theory.
You obviously haven't read the XDA dev thread at all (I've read > 95% of the posts in that thread) or you wouldn't be posting such a reply about the purpose of the thread.
The frustrating question I was referring to that I wanted to answer wasn't for glory (are you serious?), it was to stem the 2 day flood of useless answers this poor person received (half were unhelpful, the others were flaming, leaving this poor person extremely frustrated). Not one person gave the reply I ended up sending the person in a PM, but the thread was derailed (for at least the hundredth time) extensively with a very non-development-related topic. My intent was solely to stem this and bring the thread back on topic.
First let me clarify, my comment or "title" ...10 posts was simply to say I could not post what I was about to say in the developement section....nothing to do with the rule. It is what it is...If I could think of 10 important things to say, it would not be difficult to get to 10 posts. What I was trying to say and what is now happening even in this little tread is that is it really necessary to go after folks for voicing an opinion or asking a question etc. Again, using my silly analogy, some "fool" is tailgating my butt down HWY 41 (with a line of cars all doing 65 (55 posted) and finally pulls out and around (scarring the crap out of the guy coming the other way) just to get one car ahead. 5 minutes later were right next to each other at the light (HWY 41 and 145 (google it)). What's the point. How pissed off do I really want to get? Just back off and let them go....folks complain about the continued same question (you say google, then why have the forum?), then we see pages of people pissed off, now people have to read through all that. For what it's worth, I've see a lot less of it recently in the dev forum, and that's a good thing...right? Let people ask their questions, point them in the right direction (or just let it go). Hey Krunk, I have the original droid, that was fun, son has it now, he's playing with MUIU. I remember setting up a "clean room" in my home back in the day to put additional memory in my Amiga 1000. I think I even put the cat in a hazmat suit! My wife still gives me grief over that. It's all about fun!
I would ask that if you have ideas on how to improve this forum please send me a PM. I have been moderator for th TP for just a couple weeks and I am cleaning things more everyday.
Hello all! I have recently been helping people in the Q&A section in my spear time because it is fun
However, I usually look at how many replies there is on a thread to see if it is worth replying
(for example, 400 replies is quite much so the person has probably already got his help) and sometimes,
I see one reply, I think think to myself, hmm, that person is already getting help by another person.
But, sometimes I open the thread to see if the help could have been improved and most of the time,
I see it is just the original poster replying to his post saying "bump". To be honest bumbers,
that decreases your chance of getting help because I am sure that I am not the only one who thinks with that logic.
To be fair, this is a 50/50 chance, sometimes I see replies with pretty useful answers but come on,
it literally states in the forum rules not to bumb and still people do it.
If you are a bumber, I might start reporting threads becasue it is a rule.
Have a nice day