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Hey guys,
I really need to rant a little bit now.
This thread is for everyone creating all those "kill ASUS on facebook/twitter/blog sites" threads.
I really understand your angryness about the initial issues with the Prime, but has anyone of you guys ever thought about that you are doing huge damage to both ASUS and yourself with those hate campaigns?
Best example: "Lets spread information about minor software problems all over the web and its major blog sites"
This is ridicioulus guys... Seriously, ASUS really can't fix for example the serialnumber issue within 3 days...
They need to find out what's wrong first. After that they need to fix the problem. After fixing the testing follows.
All this needs time. And spreading rather unprofessional information all around the web won't speed this up at all.
But now to the main part of my rant: the damage being done to us, the owners of the Prime.
Do you guys really think you are doing anything good with those social attacks?
In fact you are driving many people away from the Prime for reasons which are seriously non-issues.
Lets re-think about the issues and ASUS reactions:
GPS issue: ASUS confirmed, that this might be a hardware problem,
it seems they are starting a bonus program for the ones not happy with the GPS (either 6 more months of warranty or a full refund)
This is actually really embarassing for them, but I couldn't think of any better method to solve this issue
(we are talking about realistic methods here, giving you a free TF700 is not realistic)
The Wifi issue: Well actually we do not know much about this.
ASUS told us it's not a hardware issue, rather an issue of specific batches with wrong firmware. We will see in the future what they can do here
The Wifi/BT issue: As several members found out this is a real non-issue. Speed drops appear across all devices and platforms when using BT and Wifi together. Nothing really to complain about here
Random lockups and reboots and unknown serial number issue: ASUS is aware of these problems, already got fixes and is testing these fixes right now.
Nobody else tests fixes with real customers in a public forum. Thats' great!
Now lets talk about that damage I am always talking about:
Here the facts:
Reporting minor software issue (GPS and Wifi aside here) definitely leads to a smaller customer base for the Prime
Major news sites falsely reported the serial number problem as a hardware problem, leading to confused users which do not want to buy this tablet
Smaller userbases always lead to less support, both from the company and also from our own developers.
Less company support means that we will get less often and lower quality updates for our Prime. The device will be abandonned much faster than devices with large customer bases
Less dev support means less innovating new features from our side, less custom ROMs, less custom kernels, in fact the smaller the userbase the faster the Prime development will go dead
Think of the HTC HD2: the ultimate development phone. Its rather big userbase lead to incredible development. They have everything on that phone: Win 6.x, WP 7, Android 2.x and 4.x, real Linux... Smaller userbases ultimately lead to worse device development
I guess it's already too late, the damage being done by you and the major blog sites is irreparable.
Non tech-focused customers who read Engadget won't get a Prime now.
But these non-tech focused guys are the imporatn part of a customer base.
We tech guys here are always a very minor part of a device's customer base.
Ah and by the way: If you buy a product directly after launch, you have to expect those kind of problems.
I haven't seen any product launch in the last years which had not initial problems and issues. No matter if tablet or phones, HTC or Samsung...
ASUS is always one of the first (the first?) major companies, providing support on xda-developers. That is nothing usual for big companies like ASUS.
Give them credit for this move.
I hope someone actually read that text...
I completely agree, thanks for this post. However the problem is it are mostly people who haven't even bought the Prime are *****ing the most.
I couldn't agree more, *****ing about the problem isn't gonna get anything solved. If you have problems try to help, that way things can get fixed more quickly and then everyone (or at least most) can be happy.
read it and agree, there are issues but the support from Asus on this forums is great.
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
Asus threw an unfinishied product on the market.
They can't fix the SN issue in 3 days? Well, I didn't have such issues with my 4 other android devices. Maybe the should have been testing it.
Of course it is embarassing for Asus, but this is clearly not our fault. We fulfilled our part with odering and paying for a tablet. Rest is up to them.
While I agree that a free TF700 or such things would be impossible, the GPS problem is clearly a sign there has be no/not enough testing.
All the problems you are stating would have been showing due to Asus product testing, again. This is completely THEIR fault and they have to deal with it now.
You think we need to stop reporting errors to make the prime look better and they can sell more?
Dude, seriously. Do you buy a brand new car and when you have issues, you just shut up so the store can sell some more?
I'd really love to love my Prime, but with all those obvious mistakes Asus made, I can't.
The problem with what you are doing is: If you support Asus now, other companies will see it's ok to sell faulty products, and the next generation of tablets could have big issues as well.
You need to say what's wrong for anybody to hear. Or would you like to buy a product and then find out later that it's full of bugs? But nobody tould you because it wouldn't be nice for the company?
Do you think Asus will decrease support if less people are bying it?
Again, this wouldn't be nice, but it's completely in the hands of Asus.
It's a big company and they shouldn't have trouble emplyoing a few guys for support. If not, the save money on the wrong thing. Don't make (Non-)Buyers responsible for this.
No matter what other companies do, bringing an untested product to the market is not acceptable and that is the feedback Asus is getting now.
And no, you don't have to expect those "kind of problems".
When I buy a 600€-Tablet, I expect a full working one, and not in 3 months but NOW. I didn't have problems with my Optimus 2x or Iconia A500.
It's a big difference wether the company is fixing issues or improves the quality with updates.
And another point on Asus working with the community: It's nice they are on XDA, but... I remember there was...is... a locked and encrypted bootloader?
Yeah, right. Asus completely locked the Prime and only promised to make an unlock tool after giant social network ****storms.
Is this "working" with the community? Why didn't they look at HTC and provided an unlock tool from the beginning? Asus is only giving in because they are afraid of more bad attention. And that seems to be the only way for the community to be heard.
Just my 2c.
pintness
I think peoples persistence on forums have forced ASUS to look harder at the problem but never the less they are doing something and its a real credit to them that Gary Key is active on our forums now. I think in this modern age ASUS have took a brave step and one that they should be praised for.
We are all upset about the problems but we need to give ASUS fair time to address them. We have all had a rant but now its time to work with ASUS and give them as much information as possible, this is the only way we all get what we want, loyal happy customers and a fantastic product with new and exciting products on the horizon.
Cut them a bit of slack.
Dear Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
pintness said:
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
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Just my 2c.
pintness
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kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
[...]
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
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You both are not getting my point. Instead of going to the media you should report your errors to ASUS.
No matter how incompetent their customer support is on the phone, the errors will reach the developers anyway.
Nobody told you to praise the Prime. I just said that overpainting the issue won't help anyone. Not even you.
ASUS will fix the software problems. And the GPS issue got kinda resolved too. If you are not happy with it, return it.
I am pretty sure there will be other countries than UK and Taiwan with this move.
And yes you can't fix software errors in that scale in 3 days. Just deal with it. That's how software development works.
Oh and I hope that "Dead Diamondback" was a typo.... Otherwise, get off here troll
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
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GDI read the ****ing OP's first post. He did not ask you to kiss Asus' feet. He did not ask you to say false POSITIVE things about the Prime. He did not tell you to disregard Asus' mistakes. He simply asked you to vent your frustration and give your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the appropriate recipient: ASUS.
BTW you have my thanks OP.
kaiserpc said:
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
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Hm, seems I missed that. My german dock works perfectly. What's the issue exactly?
But still, ASUS is a big company, they can't just find, fix, test, and make an announcement in 3 days...
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
GPS issues were rife, cases didn't fit together properly, screens were loose with dust underneath them. Then of course there was the screen bleed, stuck pixels and countless other problems.
I remember it well as I was one of the first people on this forum to receive my DHD and I spent countless hours sitting watching IRC channels for root to be achieved.
Now then after that short history lesson, here is the point of my story. There was a lot of complaining about these issues here on the forum, but what most people did was either accept the fact that this was an early batch and realised that as an early adopter these things are to be expected, or they sent them back. End of story.
There was no smeer campaign, nothing. Just people being adult about the situation and that's that.
Thanks for listening.
Doktaphex said:
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
[...]
Thanks for listening.
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Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Agree
I actually agree with everything you said diamondback.
I personally love my prime, but i have a couple of issues here and there. Nothing that wont get fixed in the long run. I have a moan here and there, But i still show my support to a brilliant device.
And another thing i have never seen is a compnay actually showing their dedication to fixing the problems like asus. For god sake people they actually have a rep on here talking to people and providing inside information that actually could help. And again in garys posts people are attacking them there.
I really those people who are attacking asus shoulld either:
1. Suck it up and shut up and wait for a fix
2. Sell there device or take it back for a refund and shut up about it.
I know its not the best path, but you have to give a company some time for actually fix these issues. It doesnt happen over night, they ar'nt robots!
Rant over
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Diamondback said:
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
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its funny because i have a DHD, i got one of the bad batches and still using it this day. Although HTC's repair team didnt do anything when i sent it back in. 3 days before my warrenty ran out. But that was a GPS issue for me. And im not really that bothered about it to be fair.
I personally love my phone, ive modded it so many times now ive lost count.
Just remember...Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day
But aren't we pushing for double-standards here?
Because it would be a ****storm all around if Apple releases a product that has even a single critical flaw. Such as iPhone 4 antennagate. People pay a lot for Apple for quality, they don't expect such problems and Apple has very, very few issues like that with their product launches.
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
Apple has set the standard, so when we end up paying a lot of money and face this many problems, being publicly critical about it makes sense. Sure you could say that ASUS is small compared to Apple, but if they want to compete with Apple they simply have to do better. If they release a device that is as flawed, it is not just bad for customers, but Android in general. I remember giving excuses to people who used my HTC Desire back in the day that had a multitouch screen that was not multitouch and it was obvious that it is a lesser device. I will feel just as bad when someone tries to use GPS on my Prime and is confused that it doesn't work and so on, because they -expect- the device to function.
Pat on the back and 'better next time' just doesn't cut it, since many of us will be using the device for more than a year. This is not a startup world, ASUS has been in the business for years, they are ambitious with their claims of having created the best tablet, if they cannot live up to it, they deserve the criticism.
They are a big boy and will hopefully do better next time. Market demands it. Otherwise someone else will simply create better devices and wins over the customers that ASUS has. ASUS is unique in that it offers an innovative keyboard dock with Prime, if it becomes popular then competition will increase and I'll gladly jump ship to manufacturer that has a better history with product launches.
Thank you OP for IMHO a needed and well thought out post.
I completely agree with OP post. People that are unsatisfied can easily return device and move on. But no, instead they love to hang around a nag like women with each other. I can tell most polls made here in thisbsection was made to make the Prime look bad. But guess what, it backfired. Most, if not all polls here show in favor of the Prime in a positive light. Don't believe me, just take a look. Of all the people that voted in them, its always 77-85% or more people that are happy with devices, or defect free or etc...
Although the smear campaigns might hurt a little, the ball is already rolling. Even the negative people not going to be able to stop developement. We already have a good number of developers doing alot of great things without bootloader unlocked yet. We have other major developers just waiting to hit the ground running once unlocking tool is available. Its almost surreal sometimes reading the issues some people have. As from 12/22 my device has worked great everyday and have really been enjoying it. Its really sad how some people try to nitpick every single little thing.
If you are unsatisfied with device, do like moderator Jerdog said. Which was get rid of device then, whine somewhere else, AND GO AWAY! Developers not going to want to hear your sob stories. Just imagine once custom roms start being made. Are those same people going to whine all the time after an early build is built n has some issues to be fixed?
Another thing also, some people are plain stupid. They smear n attack Asus for the Prime yet they talk of getting the new A-700. Dumb move. This new device hasn't even been proven tl be better then the Prime and won't be out for 4-5 months at the earliest. People just assume its better because it has a plastic strip across the back. Nothing can be assumed. This hasn't been thouroughly tested or reviewed by major tech sites to say its better. Which a mini test of sorts showed it wasn't, as far as wireless goes. To me. Asus is a great company because I received a great product. If people are to stupid to just return device instead of crying up here online, then that's on them. As they clearly have seen the people that love their devices way outnumber those who don't. sand ususally its the same people always complaining. That's why I've stopped trying to combat them in the threads really. I just report the post or thread, if its unreasonable. This has been working as several complaining threads already have been shut down. Even moderator tired of all the whining.
Just carry your a$$ somewhere else if you don't like your device. Plain n simple!
kristovaher said:
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
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I've had NONE of the issues you mentioned. The only thing I can't confirm that works 100% is the GPS since I did not buy this tablet to use as a primary GPS unit! I have a phone that does that and is more PORTABLE since it fits in my pants pocket. Last I tried using the GPS, it locked on my exact location in less than a minute. But really, I didn't really care, I only tested it because of all the damn *****ing on this forum.
So yes, I am a proud owner of a Prime with a "functioning" GPS, STANDARD wifi range, a VIVID screen, operational keyboard dock, no software issues, and updated with ICS.
First, OP, this isn’t just about Asus. What you’re saying in your post is that to protect the image and viability of a product (any product), people should suck up what they’re handed and deal with problems quietly in a way that benefits the manufacturer. That way, the product’s image will be protected. That’s great for current owners looking to reinforce their purchase and to grow the user base, but what about people that haven’t yet purchased the product? Hide defects and issues from them so they can figure it out themselves? If Acer hoses the A700 launch, would you give the same advice to their board? This goes against the principles of XDA.
Back to the Prime. Many of the issues discussed here caused people to say the Prime wasn’t right for them and either returned them or passed. Would you deprive them of that knowledge beforehand to further your personal agenda? Did you sign the “unlock the bootloader” petition? If so, then you’re being somewhat hypocritical.
Manufacturers need to be held accountable for their decisions. In Asus’ case, the choice of a metal back cover, claiming “GPS” when there wasn’t, racing the Prime to market with inadequate testing, and the random QC issues were all self-inflicted. Following your guidance, if this was kept quiet and didn’t impact sales, what incentive would they have going forward to sweat the details and deliver high quality products starting with unit number one?
Any “damage done to the Prime” was done in meeting rooms in Taiwan long before anyone here had a Prime in their hands. And h/w and s/w aside, hopefully Asus learned from this that customers aren’t sheep and willing to accept what they’re given and in the future will provide more frequent, accurate, and consistent communication before and after they launch a product. It’s terrific that after the damage was done Gary Key’s been proactive in cleaning up the mess and Asus offered a six-month warranty extension. Let’s give them an “A” for that. They get an “F” for how they managed the launch, communication, some of their design choices, and initial QC. So, at best, they’ve earned a “C.” If they’re a learning organization, let’s see what they do with the TF700. If it’s a repeat of the Prime, then God help them. And if the TF700 is everything the Prime should have been, that’s what’s going to cause the problems you outlined to happen, not the *****ing.
My friends that bought (and returned) Prime’s are pissed. Anyone trying to get one before the holidays went through flaming hoops and invested a lot of time and energy that they won’t get back via a “refund.” They’ll never purchase an Asus product again and are telling everyone they know about their experience. So even if everyone on XDA follows your advice, the damage will continue long after the postings stop. And it should because that’s what keeps manufacturers in check.
Had a phone call with a VP from Asus. Want to know why after months being released you still can't find one to buy easily? Asus is and has been fully aware of the hardware issues with its tablet. Even BEFORE it was released, but since they (here we go again with this word) announced a release date and wanted to try to get some money in around the holidays was released anyway. Asus is just not producing a lot of them because they know the only way to fix their problems is with a physical hardware change. And of course, the least amount of units you have in the field the less it will cost to fix. This does make sense to me, and it is also almost a given. You don't have to believe me, but I wasn't told not to distribute this information. I'm only holding back the name our of respect.
I interpret this discussion as good news, as it appears they have plans to actually fix or replace our devices. I hope this is true.
Sent from my Desire Z using the XDA App
David Dee said:
I interpret this discussion as good news, as it appears they have plans to actually fix or replace our devices. I hope this is true.
Sent from my Desire Z using the XDA App
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Optimistically, so it would seem.
Pessimistically, they get a smaller class action when they phase out the Prime.
opentoe said:
You don't have to believe me, but I wasn't told not to distribute this information. I'm only holding back the name our of respect.
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WTF?? If you were told not to distribute this information, what exactly do you think that posting on the most prominent dev forum on the internet is? Keeping silent?
Edit: Ok, now I see that you say you were NOT told not to distribute the information. I was confused by the post title "sworn to secrecy".
opentoe said:
Had a phone call with a VP from Asus. Want to know why after months being released you still can't find one to buy easily? Asus is and has been fully aware of the hardware issues with its tablet. Even BEFORE it was released, but since they (here we go again with this word) announced a release date and wanted to try to get some money in around the holidays was released anyway. Asus is just not producing a lot of them because they know the only way to fix their problems is with a physical hardware change. And of course, the least amount of units you have in the field the less it will cost to fix. This does make sense to me, and it is also almost a given. You don't have to believe me, but I wasn't told not to distribute this information. I'm only holding back the name our of respect.
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I am raising the BS flag on this. Asus is a multi-billion dollar company and obviously they must have some business acumen to have achieved this. If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities? The logical action if this actually were the case would be to pull the product immediately and cut their losses. Continuing to distribute a product that they know is flawed and that they are going to recall would either a) increase the cost of this recall; or b) increase their liability from a class action lawsuit. The OP makes no sense.
Oh, and if this is actually true I take it that this is the last phone call that you will have with your Asus VP buddy
well I just Spoke with the President of Asus on this matter. you know the president is higher up than a VP. I linked him to the op and he said its utter B.S. lmfao.
More like the OP spoke with the VP of the cleaning company that cleans Asus Headquarters..lmao
Thanks OP, I needed a good laugh. this is funny!
edit: SOME GULLIBLE PERSON ACTUALLY BELIEVED THIS.
WARNING! THIS IS SARCASM AT ITS BEST. THIS POST I MADE IS NOT A TRUE STATEMENT. IF HE BELIEVES THIS THEN HE MUST BELIEVE IN BIGFOOT ALSO..LOL
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paddycr said:
I am raising the BS flag on this. Asus is a multi-billion dollar company and obviously they must have some business acumen to have achieved this. If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities? The logical action if this actually were the case would be to pull the product immediately and cut their losses. Continuing to distribute a product that they know is flawed and that they are going to recall would either a) increase the cost of this recall; or b) increase their liability from a class action lawsuit. The OP makes no sense.
Oh, and if this is actually true I take it that this is the last phone call that you will have with your Asus VP buddy
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that's what Im saying..lol. VP is not that dumb to admit to a major crime to a mere consumer out of no where. They know better than that. come on now OP, at least make it believable
demandarin said:
that's what I saying..lol. VP is not that dumb to admit to a major crime to a mere consumer out of no where. They know better than that. come on now OP, at least make it believable
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Unless you are the VP, then I wouldn't trash another forum member. I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe he's not a mere consumer. The VP of a big company like ASUS will know that no-one will believe a "mere consumer" anyway. They are getting away with murder.
I was told by the product manager of ASUS South Africa this morning when trying to organise my refund "What do you want? Cause I'm really busy". He did not say it any way that could even be deemed as "nice" or "helpful". This blind fanboyism needs to stop.
To the OP: name and shame.
paddycr said:
I am raising the BS flag on this. Asus is a multi-billion dollar company and obviously they must have some business acumen to have achieved this. If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities? The logical action if this actually were the case would be to pull the product immediately and cut their losses. Continuing to distribute a product that they know is flawed and that they are going to recall would either a) increase the cost of this recall; or b) increase their liability from a class action lawsuit. The OP makes no sense.
Oh, and if this is actually true I take it that this is the last phone call that you will have with your Asus VP buddy
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Wow, a VP who feels obliged to just give this info over the phone to a random caller, even though Asus as a company has continuasly denied a widespread issue on these tablets?? Smells like another BS post to me, but I dont want to be accused again of stalking the OP's posts.
paddycr said:
I am raising the BS flag on this. Asus is a multi-billion dollar company and obviously they must have some business acumen to have achieved this. If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities? The logical action if this actually were the case would be to pull the product immediately and cut their losses. Continuing to distribute a product that they know is flawed and that they are going to recall would either a) increase the cost of this recall; or b) increase their liability from a class action lawsuit. The OP makes no sense.
Oh, and if this is actually true I take it that this is the last phone call that you will have with your Asus VP buddy
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This. +1. 10 char
Moist said:
Unless you are the VP, then I wouldn't trash another forum member. I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe he's not a mere consumer. The VP of a big company like ASUS will know that no-one will believe a "mere consumer" anyway. They are getting away with murder.
I was told by the product manager of ASUS South Africa this morning when trying to organise my refund "What do you want? Cause I'm really busy". He did not say it any way that could even be deemed as "nice" or "helpful". This blind fanboyism needs to stop.
To the OP: name and shame.
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I would not say that this is "blind fanboyism", at least on my part. The point I was making is that the OP makes no business sense. You don't continue to distribute flawed products when you know that the midterm liability will be greater than the short term profit.
I am less than happy with Asus: I am sure that any fix that may or may not be offered for the hardware issues will not include people who have unlocked their bootloaders even though their TFP's contain the same substandard components. I unlocked my bootloader in full knowledge that I was voiding my warranty and fortunately my hardware issues have been negligible (I would not have done it otherwise). However, my GPS (which I don't use) is non-functional (as I said, not a big deal to me). The bootloader unlock was a sneaky way for Asus to reduce their overall liability by voiding warranties. Overall, I will not loose any sleep over this but looking around this forum there seem to have been a lot of users that have unwittingly unlocked without realizing the full consequences of their actions.
>If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities?
For one, because the product isn't "fatally flawed," as evidenced by the fact that most here are still using it.
There can be many possible reasons--business and technical--none of which we as outsiders are privy to. You can just as well ask, why release a product right after Christmas shopping season, traditionally the deadest spot of the year for consumer buying.
Here's one plausible reason: Because Asus needed a test bed, since this is the first tablet that makes use of the unibody process from the Zenbook line. It wants to work out the kinks before applying the production process to more mainstream models.
Sure, anybody who said "yeah, I just had a talk with a VP, and he said XYZ" should be viewed sceptically. But what he said isn't exactly outrageous. And it's not asking you to alter your view. It's simply another data point.
>The bootloader unlock was a sneaky way for Asus to reduce their overall liability by voiding warranties.
This would be a good reason for Asus to stop offering the BL unlock for future models, if your attitude is representative of how it's viewed.
Well my ignore list just grew one more person..
e.mote said:
>The bootloader unlock was a sneaky way for Asus to reduce their overall liability by voiding warranties.
This would be a good reason for Asus to stop offering the BL unlock for future models, if your attitude is representative of how it's viewed.
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In general, I think the response to every ASUS effort to communicate and resolve issues has been such that they're probably rethinking being involved in this forum.
e.mote said:
>If they were in full knowledge that their product was fatally flawed why continue to distribute it, even in small quantities?
For one, because the product isn't "fatally flawed," as evidenced by the fact that most here are still using it.
There can be many possible reasons--business and technical--none of which we as outsiders are privy to. You can just as well ask, why release a product right after Christmas shopping season, traditionally the deadest spot of the year for consumer buying.
Here's one plausible reason: Because Asus needed a test bed, since this is the first tablet that makes use of the unibody process from the Zenbook line. It wants to work out the kinks before applying the production process to more mainstream models.
Sure, anybody who said "yeah, I just had a talk with a VP, and he said XYZ" should be viewed sceptically. But what he said isn't exactly outrageous. And it's not asking you to alter your view. It's simply another data point.
>The bootloader unlock was a sneaky way for Asus to reduce their overall liability by voiding warranties.
This would be a good reason for Asus to stop offering the BL unlock for future models, if your attitude is representative of how it's viewed.
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For the record, in no way do I personally think that the Prime is "fatally flawed". As I stated in my previous post I think it is a great piece of hardware and if have had little reason to be unhappy with it - it works well for me.
However, the implication of the OP was that Asus was aware that it was flawed prior to its release and knew that they were going to have to deal with the resulting issues. This makes no business sense, whereas the the explanation that you give is reasonable. However, you state that the OP is "simply another data point". Data has to be based on fact to be worthy of attention
wynand32 said:
In general, I think the response to every ASUS effort to communicate and resolve issues has been such that they're probably rethinking being involved in this forum.
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Couldn't of said it better myself. What's the point of informing your customers if they are just going to complain about every little thing and expect you to provide more info when they want it?! I don't see where on my receipt/warranty where it states that Asus is SUPPOSED to do this. I think this is probably part of the reason why Gary's posts are getting smaller, the amount of complaints, accusations, trolling and people just generally expecting everything be handed to them is amazing!
---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------
jyan_osu said:
Well my ignore list just grew one more person..
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Lmao! it's both funny and sad at the same time, the lengths that some would go.
jyan_osu said:
Well my ignore list just grew one more person..
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opentoe is probably just sexually frustrated since he broke up with his girlfriend cameltoe.
>In general, I think the response to every ASUS effort to communicate and resolve issues has been such that they're probably rethinking being involved in this forum.
It's part and parcel of customer support. I don't think people's reaction here are out of the ordinary. I think the communication process could be better handled, and hope that will be the case once the dedicated CS Gary spoke of is in place.
It's a given that rants tend to get louder when there is a willing ear. But a seasoned CS rep should have no problem filtering out the noise.
I can confirm the OP's post as legit!
Guys, I just called Asus customer service and was immediately transferred to a conference call to the very same VP as well as the President of Asus!! They did confirm that even though they have pending lawsuits so they shouldn't be telling me this, but after gaining their trust over the phone, they did admit that they were well aware of the issues with these tablets, but that they just really needed to make some money, so they went and released them anyway. They also informed me of the secret update that Gary has mentioned, which will be released soon! I can't tell you guys what the announcement will be or they threatened to be really really upset with me if I did!
So now demandarin is not the only person with an Asus contact!!
love you guys!!
This "unavailability" thing also doesn't make sense to me. Practically every Fry's Electronics in my vicinity is stocking Prime 32/64 Grey/Champagne and the corresponding docks. For $499 and $599 plus taxes respectively. I actually stood in line on the release day and was majorly jilted by Apple with the iPad 3 (bad screen/temperature/10 hr recharge issues, to name a few). After 5-6 exchanges and repeated bad screens, I gave up and decided to get the BEST android tab instead. The Prime was an obvious choice. I looked up Amazon and the it looks like they are going for $600+ for 32. I look up Fry's and they got em all. LOL. I'm seriously stumped as to why the online prices have shot up like that. And... get this... my Prime had a dead pixel. It took me a while to unroot and remove the cwm. But it can be done. I took it to Fry's and walked out with a brand new one in less than 15 minutes. I have had no other 'issues' as such. Although I haven't tested the GPS. My buddy mistakenly updated it to .21 and now I'm stuck w/o root. LOL. But hey, otherwise it's a solid piece of hardware. Very well designed. I don't think a lot of people understand the complications behind cutting-edge design and hardware integration. Apple was handing out $5 bumpers for dropped calls. I'm sure Asus has done a much better job with the Prime.
Mind games! I would say no one in here gets any inside info from anyone at asus other than what Gary provides . Anything else is just another wannabie.
No.. this isn't actually a post about the Prime's problems... it's actually about how companies handle things when they screw up. A lot of people here seemed genuinely grateful for what Asus did postfacto... I'm not one of them because my bar is set higher. I expect more from the companies I buy from - well, when it's a $500 tablet anyway.
Here's an example of where the bar SHOULD be set.
A month or so ago, Google announced the Q - basically their version of the Roku or the AppleTV. Thing is, while it's innovative design, it kind of sucked at being an actual Internet appliance. Google admitted the Q was shipped too soon and had significant problems. They halted production.. and here's the kicker - everyone will get a free replacement. They don't even have to return the original. And if you preordered and haven't gotten yours, you get a free one.
Here's the letter they sent out:
We have an important update about your Nexus Q pre-order.
When we announced Nexus Q at Google I/O, we gave away devices to attendees for an early preview. The industrial design and hardware were met with great enthusiasm. We also heard initial feedback from users that they want Nexus Q to do even more than it does today. In response, we have decided to postpone the consumer launch of Nexus Q while we work on making it even better.
To thank you for your early interest, we'd like to extend the Nexus Q preview to our pre-order customers and send you a free device. If you had other items in your order, your credit card will be charged for those items only.
Your Nexus Q will be on its way soon and you will receive a notification and tracking number from Google Play when it ships.
The Nexus Q Team
So, they're giving away free replacements for everyone who has one - who got them for FREE... and everyone who preordered... also gets one for free.
They certainly didn't need to do this. Most people understood that the problems with the Q were relatively minor and most could be fixed with software upgrades... not to mention, the people who got theirs at Google IO didn't actually pay for them. Not an issue - not even a discussion point - Google wants to make sure you stay loyal and stick with them. Anything to make the customer happy. No attempt to try and gloss over the problem or shirk responsibility.
THAT'S customer service, amigos. No screwing around with buckshee hacks. No 'we didn't mean it when we said you have a GPS..'
That's the bar we should set and demand.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207482/nexus-q-consumer-launch-delayed
PS: You'll notice I'm here telling you how great Google is rather than being out there telling others how great Asus is? That's why it's important to encourage customer loyalty... And I don't even HAVE a Q (not available in this country).
TheWerewolf said:
Nice story about google giving away expensive devices for free...
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To be fair to ASUS, Google is a $207Billion company with almost $40B a year in revenue. The future of the company is hardly riding on them making a profit on their Nexus Q, heck it could be that no one's job is even riding on it given their business situation. Asus on the other hand is like a $6B company in US funds. Google could absorb financial hits that would completely BK or force massive layoffs at many other companies (like ASUS) without blinking. I think ASUS blew it with their QA on recent units but they have made some effort to try to set things right.
You can demand and expect completely-out-of-touch-with-the-rest-of-the-industry replacement/recall policies but you'll probably disappointed most of your life. Even mighty Apple told people they were holding their phones wrong when Antennagate hit. It probably makes more sense to learn your lesson and just move on.
To be honest, I think the world has enough/too many $100B+ companies already.
TheWerewolf said:
No.. this isn't actually a post about the Prime's problems... it's actually about how companies handle things when they screw up. A lot of people here seemed genuinely grateful for what Asus did postfacto... I'm not one of them because my bar is set higher. I expect more from the companies I buy from - well, when it's a $500 tablet anyway.
Here's an example of where the bar SHOULD be set.
A month or so ago, Google announced the Q - basically their version of the Roku or the AppleTV. Thing is, while it's innovative design, it kind of sucked at being an actual Internet appliance. Google admitted the Q was shipped too soon and had significant problems. They halted production.. and here's the kicker - everyone will get a free replacement. They don't even have to return the original. And if you preordered and haven't gotten yours, you get a free one.
Here's the letter they sent out:
We have an important update about your Nexus Q pre-order.
When we announced Nexus Q at Google I/O, we gave away devices to attendees for an early preview. The industrial design and hardware were met with great enthusiasm. We also heard initial feedback from users that they want Nexus Q to do even more than it does today. In response, we have decided to postpone the consumer launch of Nexus Q while we work on making it even better.
To thank you for your early interest, we'd like to extend the Nexus Q preview to our pre-order customers and send you a free device. If you had other items in your order, your credit card will be charged for those items only.
Your Nexus Q will be on its way soon and you will receive a notification and tracking number from Google Play when it ships.
The Nexus Q Team
So, they're giving away free replacements for everyone who has one - who got them for FREE... and everyone who preordered... also gets one for free.
They certainly didn't need to do this. Most people understood that the problems with the Q were relatively minor and most could be fixed with software upgrades... not to mention, the people who got theirs at Google IO didn't actually pay for them. Not an issue - not even a discussion point - Google wants to make sure you stay loyal and stick with them. Anything to make the customer happy. No attempt to try and gloss over the problem or shirk responsibility.
THAT'S customer service, amigos. No screwing around with buckshee hacks. No 'we didn't mean it when we said you have a GPS..'
That's the bar we should set and demand.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207482/nexus-q-consumer-launch-delayed
PS: You'll notice I'm here telling you how great Google is rather than being out there telling others how great Asus is? That's why it's important to encourage customer loyalty... And I don't even HAVE a Q (not available in this country).
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Well said! In my opinion they would gain a stronger customer base.
zenaxe said:
To be fair to ASUS, Google is a $207Billion company with almost $40B a year in revenue. The future of the company is hardly riding on them making a profit on their Nexus Q, heck it could be that no one's job is even riding on it given their business situation. Asus on the other hand is like a $6B company in US funds. Google could absorb financial hits that would completely BK or force massive layoffs at many other companies (like ASUS) without blinking. I think ASUS blew it with their QA on recent units but they have made some effort to try to set things right.
You can demand and expect completely-out-of-touch-with-the-rest-of-the-industry replacement/recall policies but you'll probably disappointed most of your life. Even mighty Apple told people they were holding their phones wrong when Antennagate hit. It probably makes more sense to learn your lesson and just move on.
To be honest, I think the world has enough/too many $100B+ companies already.
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Yeah, I would never expect a smaller company like ASUS to be able to do something like this. But, the Prime really is such a mess in my eyes that it would take something drastic to get me to buy another ASUS product. When you have a seemingly pretty faulty device combined with the absolute horrid customer support (19 days now they've had mine, still waiting for parts) you lose me as a customer. Granted, I also have a faulty ASUS motherboard in my computer, so I have another reason to never buy from them again since that's 2 for 2 of the ASUS products I've ever owned having issues.
If things are better on the Infinity as far as GPS, wifi, blu tooth, build quality (like rear cameras not breaking), then ASUS should just bite the bullet and kill the TF201 and give at least early adopters a trade in. That's what it would take to make me happy, and even then they would still have a huge problem with their repair service. But, at least I would have a better chance of not ever having to deal with them.
This would never happen with Asus not because of money but simply because they don't give a f*ck about their customers.
wifesabitch said:
This would never happen with Asus not because of money but simply because they don't give a f*ck about their customers.
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That's honestly how I feel, and I feel that way 100% because of their terrible customer support. I understand things go wrong especially in this fairly new market of Android tablets. That's the time for your customer service to shine. Instead, they show us how much they care about us by having the worst service I've ever heard of.
ASUS Customer service in not. They could give a rat ask about problems with the Prime.
It is not a matter of how big Google is versus Asus. It is simply doing what is right. The Prime is junk. Asus knows it is junk. Fix it, or replace it.
We paid $500 for this tablet and anyone with any common sense would expect value for their money.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
It would appear that Sammy is taking a turn for the iWorse. or at least playing with the idea.
if this becomes a common practice for Samsung, I will stop purchasing their products. this kind of behavior usually drives away the tech-set (read as: us). who in turn do not encourage others to use the product.I can think of several dozen folk who turn to me for tech advice, as I would hazard is true for many people here. And in turn, those people recommend things to their friends, etc. I won't be able to recommend a product with this stance on third party products.
http://www.sammobile.com/2014/01/22...-working-on-galaxy-note-3-post-kitkat-update/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...t-on-the-note-3-but-there-is-a-root-solution/
discuss?
(this is also being discussed here.)
Eh, doesn't matter to me. But if I were Samsung I probably wouldn't care about other manufacturers taking away from my profits either.
kingdazy said:
It would appear that Sammy is taking a turn for the iWorse. or at least playing with the idea.
if this becomes a common practice for Samsung, I will stop purchasing their products. this kind of behavior usually drives away the tech-set (read as: us). who in turn do not encourage others to use the product.I can think of several dozen folk who turn to me for tech advice, as I would hazard is true for many people here. And in turn, those people recommend things to their friends, etc. I won't be able to recommend a product with this stance on third party products.
http://www.sammobile.com/2014/01/22...-working-on-galaxy-note-3-post-kitkat-update/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...t-on-the-note-3-but-there-is-a-root-solution/
discuss?
(this is also being discussed here.)
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Great read and thread, bro. At the moment this appears to be firmly ensconced in the realm of induction, which I like a lot. You could get excellent dialog or real crazy comments. I'm hoping we get a lot of both.
First, articles like these are fine examples of how some horrible and good ideas get vetted. Marketing folks love it, as it provides a crowdsourced focus group and costs nothing. You simply leak an idea through various channels, deny everything, and enjoy the harvest.
I personally like the idea of mobile accessories having to pass at least a minimal standard in order to get Sammy certified, but I loathe the idea of gimping it if it doesn't attain said standards. That retains the right of the consumer to purchase what he or she wants, and yet also gives (perhaps) some confidence to those wanting the certified accessory. If they go the certified and uncertified both work route, and it gins up sales for Sammy, good for them. There is plenty of precedent (those Intel Inside campaigns pretty much buried any real competition when they ran in the late 90s onward).
But I have to agree that, if this is true (it does have the appearance of plausibility), it royally sucks. Even if one 3rd-party charger or battery gets crippled, I have to say one must care, even if those same 3rd-party items aren't accessories you'd purchase, because there could be accessories in the pipeline that you would buy and also will get borked.
This most definitely is something that deserves watching. But it's still a tad early to be throwing them under the bus.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
I had an E4GT a few years ago, and loved it. When my contract was up I had a tough decision to make, Note 2 or iPhone 5. I went with the iPhone. Reason being, my computers are Mac, and I have an Apple Tv. The integration was flawless, it was so nice to have everything work together the way it should. Look where I am now. No more iPhone. No matter how perfect the symmetry, life is about choices. Take away my options and I will go elsewhere, not just because I like to tinker with things but, because if I am going to spend the money that I earn on a device then it should be up to me and me alone how I use that device. I don't know, maybe I'm still just a rebel at heart but, I don't want to be part of the Stepford clan.
Well at least now that it has come out that it was a bug/mistake, I know that I will sleep a bit better. I would have hated seeing Samsung going the Apple route...
It will only be Samsung and Apple that will run the "show" so they can do what ever they want and we cant do a damn thing about it..