Is it me or does the battery have a longer life when it charges slow?
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
All that is different with the fast charge over the other methods is the amperage increases. As soon as the cable is unplugged all that matters is how charged the battery is. That being said, if you mean longer life overall over the lifespan then yes, slower charging will allow it to survive longer. However that is negligible as modern battery technology has improved a lot lately and this is less of a factor. Overcharging is a problem though and that absolutely will kill it sooner than it should.
mdl054 said:
All that is different with the fast charge over the other methods is the amperage increases. As soon as the cable is unplugged all that matters is how charged the battery is. That being said, if you mean longer life overall over the lifespan then yes, slower charging will allow it to survive longer. However that is negligible as modern battery technology has improved a lot lately and this is less of a factor. Overcharging is a problem though and that absolutely will kill it sooner than it should.
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I believe, and I may be mixing up chargers, that with fast charge it uses 9V DC instead of 5 V DC and an amperage change. Since you're effectively shoving the charge back in ( E over I * R) that *could* wear the physical elements over time. But I don't know that any of us are battery engineers, so we rely on intelectual guesses and 'who cares'. Bedside that, I suppose intellectually, slow charge would be a more through option, although, again a negligible difference.
Related
Lithium ion batteries hate heat. Since it tends to get a bit hot while charging, and I don't care how long it takes to charge, I have reduced the AC charging current to 450mA like a USB socket. Can anyone think of any negative effects this might produce?
Takes longer to charge, otherwise no.
But honestly, the little heat it produces when charging probably doesn't matter in your phone's useful life.
jzmtl said:
Takes longer to charge, otherwise no.
But honestly, the little heat it produces when charging probably doesn't matter in your phone's useful life.
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If I'm not using it I agree, but if I happen to be using the phone while plugged in it gets plenty hot. Much more so than normal use (I have extreme CPU and GPU undervolt).
i charge my 2 batteries with a wall charger, it charges at 4.2v, 350mAh, it takes like 6hours to complete
i dont do this because of your question but it is much simpler swaping, then charging via usb,i get better cycles like this, swap every morning.
I'm running Liquid Smooth 3.2 with Imoseyon Lean 6.2.1 kernel. I also tried to activate the speed tweaks included (?) but it didn't work so I downloaded speed tweaks 7.1 from Imoseyon's website and flashed it.
This is my problem.. I understand that with this kernel USB fast charging works unless the battery temp gets too high, then it shuts off and I assume goes back to standard charging. I've been using the kernel for about six hours and the battery temp has been in the low to mid thirties mostly, so that's great.. But my voltage has gotten up slightly over 4200 a couple of times and that has driven the battery temp up, but not much. I use a battery monitor widget that sounds an alarm if the temp or voltage get outside of my defined ranges.
What I would like to know whether there is a way to keep the voltage in a safer range when the phone is fast charging? I think if the fast charge could be stopped when the voltage is above 4200 or below 3000 like it is when the battery temp gets too high would be a great feature, and it would ease my mind that the voltage won't spike to 4300 or 4400 and blow up while I'm sleeping at night (if I happen to not hear battery monitor alarm).
If that's just the way it is with the voltage spikes, does anyone maybe know of a kernel/rom combo that safely allows fast charging by keeping the battery temp and voltage in recommended ranges or by shutting fast charge off if the temp/voltage suddenly spike while on the charger?
Thanks for reading/considering my question.
I'm not 100% sure but isn't the reason fast changing works is because it bumps up he voltage. Wouldn't lowering it make it not charge as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Not sure
I looked at my battery history and I think you're right. The voltage has spiked quickly and then steadily climbed past 4200, but the charge in that time frame is like 60+ percent so it's worth it I guess. Figure I'm hurting the battery, but for now it's worth it. I I may get an iphone 5 if the features are right.
I guess I'll just have to find a toggle so I can leave it on the charger at night and not have to worry about it catching fire. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know about how long a lithium battery can charge above 4200 or below 3000 before it blows up?
Also, this is my first phone with a 4.3 inch screen.. Do all big display phones suffer from terrible battery life? I keep my brightness down to about 20% indoors, but I generally keep 4g on because 3g tends to drop the signal and I play Pokerist a lot at work. Don't like getting kicked off and having to sign back in when I'm all in in a hand. I guess it also could be that the game is taxing the processor and in combination with 4g wrecking my battery life.. Mainly though, and on a custom rom without a fast usb charging feature, I couldn't play and charge at the same time, the phone would just barely stay at the percentage it was at. My last question is, does anyone know of a phone with a large display and 4g that doesn't drain the battery as quickly as Thunderbolt, or that at least charges fairly fast while using phone without having to flash a fast usb charging kernel?
edit: I can't find an app or widget that will allow me to toggle between normal charging and fast usb charging.. Anyone know of one for Thunderbolt?
Most of the new 4G phones with the 4.3 inch screen suffer from batter drain. The razr maxx is the best stock phone for battery right now but the phones just aren't built well. I think the newer phones are getting better so I would wait a little while longer and see what is coming out soon. The battery issue won't be a problem forever and neither will the crappy data drops.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
The spike in voltage and temperature is a NORMAL behavior of this type of battery and the charging technology it uses. As a Li-on battery discharges, it's voltage drops very little for it's corresponding level of charge (Very useful in small electronics that require excellent power consistency.). As the battery nears fully discharged, the voltage begins to drop sharply as does the resistance of the battery. Shortly after that, the internal temperature rises. You are now damaging your battery to further discharge it. You're phone won't let you do this. Likewise, it won't allow you to overcharge it. A Li-on battery is determined to be fully charged when the voltage output begins to rise sharply over the nominal charge rate. The internal resistance of the battery will rise sharply as well. The you'll notice temperature rise. Depending upon other conditions, a significant rise in cell temperature doesn't necessarily indicate a charged battery. If the resistance and voltage are consistent, the battery isn't fully charged but rather exhibiting the normal rise in temperature as resistance rises. You'd be pretty shocked how hot it really has to get before the phone will simply shut itself off and refuse to power up for half an hour or more to avoid actually damaging the battery due to thermal stress. Think hot, dark stone sitting in the hot sun all day long. And that cut-off, as far as I know, is below what the battery is actually rated for.
You're HTC device uses neither voltage, resistance, nor temperature independently to determine a charged or discharged state. That is calculated through compiled statistics based upon load, voltage output, resistance, and temperature. Li-on is a very well understood technology. The ONLY way to obtain the life and performance from these batteries that they do is to have fairly advanced charging and monitoring technology. It's really pretty hard to destroy a phone or it's battery strictly through heat generated by charging (assuming all parts meet spec.). In fact, it's hard to even if the phone is sitting on a heating vent or under the hot sunlight.
Unless you're device is some brutally overclocked, customized to the gills monster of a device, narrowly switching transistors at ridiculous speeds with precious few electrons to spare, you're pretty hard pressed to damage your battery or your phone. The stuff that manages the battery is beyond what kernels and ROMs do. You can definitely do some meaningful damage to a battery messing with charge characteristics, however catastrophic failure is practically impossible.
I've noticed many roms provide options to charge at a faster rate, many have by default now.
Just looking at CheckRom, I see that it states "(for AC: up to 1200mA, for USB: up to 900mA)". Is there any real downside to using these? Such as shortening battery life.
I have been wondering about this for awhile. Thanks.
I'm sure I read somewhere that it will only use the milliamp that is supported by the battery. Also if it charges faster it shouldn't be a problem since its using the correct power input
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Faster charging equivalents more strain on the battery and thus a shorter life in terms of charge/discharge cycles.
Since the battery is replaceble, it may well be worth the few dollars to you to have it charge faster, but that's personal preference.
Quick-charging batteries leads to additional heat, I would thus not recommend it if you plan to leave it charging in a car in the summer
since that will cause even further strain. (It's very unlikely the battery could go in self-heat mode due to charging)
Actually NO, but charging with more than 1A which is stock/default will add more heat to your phone. Heat which is HOT not WARM will reduce battery life of rechargeable batteries.
Oh right, very neat. I plan to get one of those high capacity batteries (tad over twice of original) for $15.
Does anyone know if it can also reduce battery life leaving it on charge all night? I think it discontinues charging.
krisando said:
Oh right, very neat. I plan to get one of those high capacity batteries (tad over twice of original) for $15.
Does anyone know if it can also reduce battery life leaving it on charge all night? I think it discontinues charging.
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As every one said charging at higher rate will reduce battery life and also reduce back up time.
Secondly, leaving charger ON all night will not effect battery, because charging is cut off by internal circuit once battery is fully charged.
I am seeing too many battery misconceptions. Let me clear them up.
STORAGE:
Lithium batteries like to sit around 50% for prolonged periods. If you need to power down your phone and store it, do it around 50-60%.
STATE OF CHAGE / BATTERY LEVEL
- It will NOT hurt to keep your phone on the charger. The charging circuitry cuts off power once the Cell hits 4.35 - 4.4v (If it did not, your battery would swell and heat up and then explode or catch on fire or both)
- It is MUCH more harmful to deplete the battery than it is to keep it full. Lithium batteries DO NOT like to go below a certain voltage depending on specific chemistry formulation.
For Example: Chevy Volt electric car Lithium battery is set to stay within 30% - 80%. They are limited to never exceed an SOC of 80% and never go below 30%. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
To expand on this. It is BETTER to keep the phone at 95% than it is to keep it at 5% for example. I personally would NOT want my battery falling low enough that it gives a low battery indication (usually around 15%). Usually I do not want it hitting 30%. That's a good rule imho.
CHARGE AND DISCHARGE CURRENT
Lithium batteries prefer to be charged slowly and discharged slowly. They do NOT like high charge and drain.
You guessed it. AVOID high charge scenarios such as Fast Charge. AVOID fast discharge scenarios such as gaming with high brightness etc.
TEMPRATURE
Lithium batteries do not like getting hot. They don't even like getting warm. Getting hot hurts it. Getting warm isn't as bad but it DOES degrade the total capacity over time.
Again, this is usually caused due to high charge or discharge scenarios.
It also ties in with Fast charge, wireless charge and especially wireless fast charge. Wireless charging is not efficient and energy as wasted as heat.
Personally I disable fast charge and do not use wireless charging. Good old USB Type C already charges quickly enough for me.
TLDR: Disable Fast Charge. Try to use USB Type C charging instead of wireless charging. Disable stuff you don't actually use. Try to keep power save on even if using it with very little power saving settings. Try to keep brightness at a reasonable level and not too high (This reduces AMOLED degradation too).
Remember: THE BATTERY IS NOT EASILY REPLACEABLE IN THE NOTE 7 !!!!!!!! Therefore the more you baby it, the longer it will hold it's charge and the lower the chance of the battery going bad.
My old Notes (Note 2 and Note 4) both still have VERY good original batteries because they were well taken of.
Good luck !
But I like fast charging and wireless charging lol
Ironic that when your phone is new, this is when the battery gets hot and used a lot. Perhaps with the water resistant phones we should update the firmware and restore the backup under water to keep the phone cool!
I will be sure to disregard just about everything in here. Guy is spreading false panic.
Actually "store mode" example: found in 7420 kernel source is 60-70% capacity. There are a lot of checks within source including battery swell etc. Don't fret about things, use your device. It's not as delicate as you may think. Who cares about the efficiency of wireless charging. Great if you've got it
90% won't keep beyond 2 years, just enjoy the thing !!
UN-recognized Developer of my SkyHigh Kernel v5.8.x powered SM-N920C
UpInTheAir said:
Actually "store mode" example: found in 7420 kernel source is 60-70% capacity. There are a lot of checks within source including battery swell etc. Don't fret about things, use your device. It's not as delicate as you may think. Who cares about the efficiency of wireless charging. Great if you've got it
90% won't keep beyond 2 years, just enjoy the thing !!
UN-recognized Developer of my SkyHigh Kernel v5.8.x powered SM-N920C
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My device arrived at 59% charge, ties in with what you say about storage.
Hi
Just bought a GT Neo 2 but didn't get the Realme 65W charger. I do have a Samsung EP-'T4510 USB-C Quick Charger 45W + USB-C Cable.
It's obviously not going to charge the phone as fast as an original 65W charger does but it's not charging as fast as I'd expect. Plugged it in earlier at 49% and it was at 91% 40 minutes later.
So what affects charging time?
Charging set up as follows:
1) Using extension lead
2) Using adapter to convert 2 pin EU charger to UK 3 pin
3) Samsung T4510 (45W) and the cable that came with the T4510
Do the extension lead or adapter affect charging time? Also does the cable affect it? Do fast chargers have to be used with a specific type of cable?
The charger/cable has to support the charging protocol of the phone or it will only slow charge.
Best to use a OEM brick/cable no longer than 3 feet.
Battery temperature needs to be high enough at beginning of the charging cycle for fast charging to engage. Minimum 72F, but 82-90F is best.
Fast charging may engage below 72F but Li plating becomes likely. Below about 55F fast charging will likely be disabled.
Above about 103F or about 80% capacity fast charging with be ramped down or disabled.
If screen is on, fast charging is disabled.
A battery fault will also disable it or cause erratic fast charging ie a battery failure.
blackhawk said:
The charger/cable has to support the charging protocol of the phone or it will only slow charge.
Best to use a OEM brick/cable no longer than 3 feet.
Battery temperature needs to be high enough at beginning of the charging cycle for fast charging to engage. Minimum 72F, but 82-90F is best.
Fast charging may engage below 72F but Li plating becomes likely. Below about 55F fast charging will likely be disabled.
Above about 103F or about 80% capacity fast charging with be ramped down or disabled.
If screen is on, fast charging is disabled.
A battery fault will also disable it or cause erratic fast charging ie a battery failure.
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Thanks for that.
G1032 said:
Thanks for that.
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Sorry @blackhawk
One more question if you don't mind. Will charging the GT Neo 2 with the Samsung charger damage or reduce the lifespan of the Realme battery?
G1032 said:
Sorry @blackhawk
One more question if you don't mind. Will charging the GT Neo 2 with the Samsung charger damage or reduce the lifespan of the Realme battery?
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Fast charging produces more heat therefore will reduce the lifespan somewhat.
On my heavily used Note 10+ I now replace the battery every year or so to help prevent a battery failure, routine maintenance.
The charging curve is controlled by the phone not the charger. The charging curve should be near identical if both bricks supple the required peak voltage/amps and the phone power controller can communicate with the brick.
Thank you kindly. Much appreciated.
G1032 said:
Thank you kindly. Much appreciated.
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You're welcome. Play with it to see how it works.
Start the charge at about the same temperature then time how long it takes to gain 1 or 2% without turning on the main display. Watch when it ramps down during the charge cycle. It will vary but I see 2%@minute sometimes a little faster at the peak fast charging rate on the N10+.
To extent battery life limit discharge to 30% and top charge to 80%. Li's like frequent midrange power cycling; it extents their totals full charge cycles many fold. A 40-67% usage range is near ideal. Limit the current draw; higher current usage stresses the battery more as does back to back discharge/recharge etc cycles with no rest period.
That's one reason it's just easier to replace the battery. When an Li reaches 80% of its original capacity it's considered degraded and has reached the end of its useful service life. It should be replaced. Degraded Li's are more likely to fail which can seriously damage the device.
Any battery swelling is a failure, replace immediately.
blackhawk said:
You're welcome. Play with it to see how it works.
Start the charge at about the same temperature then time how long it takes to gain 1 or 2% without turning on the main display. Watch when it ramps down during the charge cycle. It will vary but I see 2%@minute sometimes a little faster at the peak fast charging rate on the N10+.
To extent battery life limit discharge to 30% and top charge to 80%. Li's like frequent midrange power cycling; it extents their totals full charge cycles many fold. A 40-67% usage range is near ideal. Limit the current draw; higher current usage stresses the battery more as does back to back discharge/recharge etc cycles with no rest period.
That's one reason it's just easier to replace the battery. When an Li reaches 80% of its original capacity it's considered degraded and has reached the end of its useful service life. It should be replaced. Degraded Li's are more likely to fail which can seriously damage the device.
Any battery swelling is a failure, replace immediately.
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That's all very interesting. I have often read about the 30 - 80 range. I used to own a Huawei P9 and always charged to 100 and that battery didn't last more than 2 years. Last phone was an A70 and that'll be 3 years old in June. Started getting random reboots recently and a quick Google said that's most likely down to the beginning of a battery failure. So just got this GT Neo "as new". It was obviously sent back to the online store by original purchaser minus the charger (replaced with a 5V 2.1A charger. Store had no OEM charger listed on site for sale so I agreed to take a the EP-T4510 charger. While it's not ideal that I won't be getting the fast charge of the OEM charger, it's far from a major issue for me, as long as I'm not going to damage the battery with it and I doubt I will. Even less of an issue if all I really need to do is keep it between 30 and 80.
I've read also that a complete discharge every once in a while is recommended but not sure how accurate that advice is.
G1032 said:
That's all very interesting. I have often read about the 30 - 80 range. I used to own a Huawei P9 and always charged to 100 and that battery didn't last more than 2 years. Last phone was an A70 and that'll be 3 years old in June. Started getting random reboots recently and a quick Google said that's most likely down to the beginning of a battery failure. So just got this GT Neo "as new". It was obviously sent back to the online store by original purchaser minus the charger (replaced with a 5V 2.1A charger. Store had no OEM charger listed on site for sale so I agreed to take a the EP-T4510 charger. While it's not ideal that I won't be getting the fast charge of the OEM charger, it's far from a major issue for me, as long as I'm not going to damage the battery with it and I doubt I will. Even less of an issue if all I really need to do is keep it between 30 and 80.
I've read also that a complete discharge every once in a while is recommended but not sure how accurate that advice is.
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Li's are born to die; they start degrading the moment they're assembled. Don't go too nuts, just replace them as needed.
Until I watched someone replace my N10+ battery I was very concerned. However I realized it's relatively easy with the right skillset and tools.
Mind you they say the N10+ is one of the more difficult ones to replace... meh.
Now I don't really think much about it.