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Google is planning to buy Motorola.
Do you think this is good or bad news for Samsung and the S2?
See:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14530543
I think it's great news. By bying Motorola with all it's patents, Google is able to countersue Microsoft, which wants a licence for every sold HTC and latest Samsung phones with Android. Google can then demand a licence for every sold Microsoft phone, or demand that Microsoft removes the licenceagreement for HTC, and stops the case against Samsung. So Google is in a better position, to defend it's licencees now, which they have promised.
So... bad news for Nokia and Microsoft, but great news for Android in generel.
Sent from my korean dual-core beast
But do you think that Samsung and HTC will become third class citizens with only Motorola having access to the latest leading edge software?
After all Google/Motorola will become competitors to Samsung!
No, i don't. And my reason is that Google live of commercials delivered through their products. By reducing the rest of their licencees, they risk to push them to the competitors, which in this case first and foremost is Windows Phone 7 - if that happens, they have no income. So Google should be interested in pushing as much licences as possible, and by betting only on Motorola would be a serious risk.
By placing it all on one horse, Google WILL loose money, as they don't sell as much advertisingspaces.
Furthermore Android will face a serious competition, when Nokia starts selling Windows phones. Nokia IS the worlds biggest phonepusher, but not yet on smartphones. Again a reason not to reduce the licencees, as they produce very capable phones, which even is posing a threat against Apple.
I really think that Google saw a problem coming up, as they did'nt get the Nortel patents. And even if they did, they could'nt use the patents to protect the licencees, as Microsoft were in on the same deal. So they had to do something to keep the money rolling in, by protecting Android and the licencees, and this was the way to do it...
Seems like to me Google wants to compete with Apple on the Hardware front... Altho I am not sure what this may mean for all the other android phone manufacturers becuase now they are also competing with Google directly rather than having a direct partnership per se...
Eddiedk said:
I think it's great news. By bying Motorola with all it's patents, Google is able to countersue Microsoft, which wants a licence for every sold HTC and latest Samsung phones with Android. Google can then demand a licence for every sold Microsoft phone, or demand that Microsoft removes the licenceagreement for HTC, and stops the case against Samsung. So Google is in a better position, to defend it's licencees now, which they have promised.
So... bad news for Nokia and Microsoft, but great news for Android in generel.
Sent from my korean dual-core beast
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This has nothing to do with the Microsoft patents and nothing Motorola has will effect the main MS claims. Its about protecting Android from Oracle and Apple. Oracle want money, LOTS, but the real danger is Apple who want bans. Apple are scum who buy patents to cause trouble, not gain IP for their own use.
Eddiedk said:
No, i don't. And my reason is that Google live of commercials delivered through their products. By reducing the rest of their licencees, they risk to push them to the competitors, which in this case first and foremost is Windows Phone 7 - if that happens, they have no income. So Google should be interested in pushing as much licences as possible, and by betting only on Motorola would be a serious risk.
By placing it all on one horse, Google WILL loose money, as they don't sell as much advertisingspaces.
Furthermore Android will face a serious competition, when Nokia starts selling Windows phones. Nokia IS the worlds biggest phonepusher, but not yet on smartphones. Again a reason not to reduce the licencees, as they produce very capable phones, which even is posing a threat against Apple.
I really think that Google saw a problem coming up, as they did'nt get the Nortel patents. And even if they did, they could'nt use the patents to protect the licencees, as Microsoft were in on the same deal. So they had to do something to keep the money rolling in, by protecting Android and the licencees, and this was the way to do it...
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Nokia was and had been number one in smartphones for many years until just one quarter ago. Its still officially second.
I don't think Google will be that stupid to buy Motorola and then suddenly stop releasing Android phones for other manufacturers such as Samsung and HTC..
After all, Android has such a big market share because different manufacturers are able to release the phones using the Android operating system.
Like suggested above, Google may be thinking of going head to head with Apple on both software and hardware front..
Also, it could be a way for Google to make sure no Motorola phones are released with other operating systems - which in turn gives Google more concrete operating market share and profit by selling Motorola hardware.
I think it is going to workout pretty well in the end.
oh, also, I don't think Nokia+Windows mobile is such a big threat.... for some weird reason, Nokia's customer service went dismal couple of years back and by the time I gave up using N97 end of last year, Nokia's customer service and support was basically non-existent. Also Symbian's support for basic 21st century functions - i.e supporting multiple languages etc still lags behind other operating systems... And let's face it.. Windows Mobile isn't that great either.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem to think that they are entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
They won't charge because they can't adhere to any established schedule.
LG Optimus 3D (T-Mobile/P920)
Theoretically that could work and provide an incentive to the vendors. They could lower their initial price to buy a device (since the support cost are baked in), but software is still hard and i think customer acceptance of those upgrade fees would be the problem. As long as the industry leader (Apple) gives free OS updates it would be a hard sell to charge for Android updates. The bigger problem for most handset and tablet makers is that they are in a constant churn cycle trying to bring the next shiny new paperweight to market ahead of the competition. Apple has a fanatical user base and is somewhat insulated from competition. If you look at their hardware against say Samsung, Apple is a generation behind in radio and processor technology.
And each of these new churns of the newest hardware causes a hardware maker to have to redo all the device specific software (there's a lot of it) to run Android.
sbrownla said:
They won't charge because they can't adhere to any established schedule.
LG Optimus 3D (T-Mobile/P920)
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Who says they have to have a schedule? MS doesn't have a schedule. Also, didn't MS charge for one of the Windows Mobile updates? Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.
Well and the reason a lot of us even use Android is that it's perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being more open and inclusive. Part of that openness has been the eventual Open Source release of each version of the operating system.
I'd pay extra for hardware that ran a 100% Open Source version of Android though, with some freeer alternative to Market, etc.
TidBit said:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
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In the Windows world things are a bit different. You pay Microsoft only for the OS. The biggest issue to get a new Windows version running on an old pc is drivers. If we translate the Windows world to Android we would pay Google for the OS (and upgrades) and HTC (for example) for the hardware (and drivers). In this world, when a new Android version is released, I can asure you that users will start to chase HTC to write new drivers compatible with the new Android version. And they want it for free.
It would be better to standarize all internal components and connections in devices. And android should contain some generic drivers to at least boot the device and use basic functions (screen, sd card, touch).
I wouldn't mind paying something extra for OS upgrades, but I don't like the idea of paying HTC for an OS upgrade while most of the work was done by Google.
Btw, by buying an HTC Android device, you also donate some bucks to the nice guys @ Microsoft.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
As a consumer, unless you enter a contract with a vendor, you are entitled to nothing. However the market forces suppliers to behave in a certain fashion in order to maintain a place in the market. How well a company balances service, vs. cost vs. profit will in the long run determine how well they do in comparison to their competitors. Therefore consumers are in effect entitled to expect some level of support from vendors when they purchase a product.
The problem is , that level of support is undefined, so a vendor has to be careful how they set expectations and consumers have to be realistic in their expectations. It's a hard balance to achieve.
I would love to see the whole concept of mobile devices move to a more PC oriented ecosystem.
Think about it.. Being able to pick and choose which hardware and which OS, and only having to deal with the carrier for service (ala cable providers) would certainly change the way things work. In my opinion for the better.
No more carrier locked phones, no more manufacturer locked OS's. I could go pick up my HTC Phone1 or Samsung Phone9, load up my Android XP and punch in my Verizon credentials and im off.
Crazy concept, i like it. Downsides i could see being increased price in phones. But on the same token, just the fact they are carrier free would drive down the price due to competition.
Would drive down cellular prices too since the only thing they would be competing with would be service area, price and data caps. Similiar to now, but without the contracts tying you in to a phone for 2 years.
Also, side-rant. 2 years for a mobile contract is absurd right now. Mobile tech is exploding, and with major hw improvements within a years time are rolling out, its just not fair.
My buddy just upgraded from his HTC Hero last month. I couldnt imagine still using that relic after having upgraded to an Epic, then an iphone4. Going back to the Hero would be torture.
TidBit said:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem to think that they are entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
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It's funny that you mention this because I remember Apple charging like $5 to upgrade older ipod touches to the newer OS and people were throwing a fit. They eventually gave the software upgrade away for free. I think everyone feels entitled to the honeycomb upgrade since HTC promised that it was going to be available soon. Nobody wants to buy a new tablet every year. Just look at Apple as an example. They could have easily only made IOS 5 only available for the Ipad 2 and alienated the millions of Ipad 1 owners out there. Instead, they offered the upgrade for both devices so people with the older model can still enjoy some of the new features. I think what everyone here is afraid of is that HTC is going to announce a HTC Flyer 2 in a couple months with a dual core processor and honeycomb/ice cream sandwich.
thetruth1983 said:
It's funny that you mention this because I remember Apple charging like $5 to upgrade older ipod touches to the newer OS and people were throwing a fit. They eventually gave the software upgrade away for free. I think everyone feels entitled to the honeycomb upgrade since HTC promised that it was going to be available soon. Nobody wants to buy a new tablet every year. Just look at Apple as an example. They could have easily only made IOS 5 only available for the Ipad 2 and alienated the millions of Ipad 1 owners out there. Instead, they offered the upgrade for both devices so people with the older model can still enjoy some of the new features. I think what everyone here is afraid of is that HTC is going to announce a HTC Flyer 2 in a couple months with a dual core processor and honeycomb/ice cream sandwich.
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I guess you are right. I did buy my HTC Flyer when the price dropped to $299 and I really love it. It is much better than my old Viewsonic G Tablet. I guess if I paid the $499, I would feel a little different.
Google tried the complete unlocked , open source concept essentially with their first Nexus phone, unfortunately it was a flop. The percentage of people that want to tinker with a phone (or tablet) vs. those that just want it to work is really small, otherwise, Apple wouldn't be so successful. I know most if us feel differently because we are passionate about the tech. and customizing.
And one more note. I worked for General Electric doing commercial software development for many years.I understand the business and legal aspect. Consumers are not "entitled" to anything, but..
I also understand that consumers are entitled to feel they are being treated fairly or you will be out of business (unless you have a monopoly , which unfortunately the cell industry behaves like in a lot of instances).
I do have a problem with false or deceptive advertising which this industry engages in fairly routinely.For example HTC announcing that the Flyer would get the honeycomb update and not delivering is deceptive. Verizon's TV ads about speed of network "rule the airways" while not talking about how they throttle your speeds is deceptive. It's not illegal, but it is deceptive and I do think consumers are entitled to the truth at some point.
DigitalMD said:
As a consumer, unless you enter a contract with a vendor, you are entitled to nothing. However the market forces suppliers to behave in a certain fashion in order to maintain a place in the market. How well a company balances service, vs. cost vs. profit will in the long run determine how well they do in comparison to their competitors. Therefore consumers are in effect entitled to expect some level of support from vendors when they purchase a product.
The problem is , that level of support is undefined, so a vendor has to be careful how they set expectations and consumers have to be realistic in their expectations. It's a hard balance to achieve.
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I think there's an implied agreement that any major defects will be fixed unless you state otherwise. Take for example the HTC logging security issue.
---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
DigitalMD said:
Google tried the complete unlocked , open source concept essentially with their first Nexus phone, unfortunately it was a flop. The percentage of people that want to tinker with a phone (or tablet) vs. those that just want it to work is really small, otherwise, Apple wouldn't be so successful. I know most if us feel differently because we are passionate about the tech. and customizing.
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FWIW, consumers *do* care about crapware. Friends know I'm an Android developer and the first thing they always ask, without a doubt, is how to remove ESPN or Avatar or other crap from their phones. Especially when people move over from the iPhone world, they are inundated by crapware.
I think the biggest selling point of the Nexus phones SHOULD be that they are mostly crapware-free, although I consider Twitter and Facebook superfluous.
ICS will let you disable system apps, which is going to be a huge bonus for users as long as the carriers don't find a way of blocking that feature.
If you believe that whole "implied agreement" thing, go check out what Sprint customers are dealing with now that Sprint yanked their unlimited data plan out from under them.
Eliminating as you call it ,Crapwear is not going to happen in Android period. You seem to have forgotten, Google is a advertising company. That's where they make the overwhelming majority of their income, about $12.5 billion last quarter. Android is a platform for leveraging that market.
The Nexus One phones were actually targeted toward developers and as such were pretty clean and open. The new Nexus Galaxy is a consumer phone.
Google doesn't make a dime from ESPN and Avatar pre-installs. The money they make on Admob is mostly from apps that users opt to download. Maps, which has some sponsored results, isn't crapware by most people's standards.
If Google had no interest in helping people out with clean phones, they wouldn't have put the ICS feature in to disable system apps.
As for implied agreement, see that those customers are angry. It's not like you're going to sue Sprint (although class actions do happen), but if you advertise one thing and do another, people get mad.
well ...
barry99705 said:
Who says they have to have a schedule? MS doesn't have a schedule. Also, didn't MS charge for one of the Windows Mobile updates? Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.
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MS most certainly does have a schedule for updating all of their devices to Mango, by the way. And, they are updating every single one built by every single manufacturer. The schedule is available online. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedules.aspx MS didn't charge end users for updates and never has, but the expectation is that all phones built around the same time period will have similar capabilities with regard to updating. With Android it's, "build first, slap the OS on later and see what works." In other words, it's not an OS-based market, it's a device-based market (I can't stand that word "ecosystem" unless it's used to describe biological phenomena, sorry).
What it boils down to is consumer expectation, as brought up by other commenters.
If Google were to charge for updates, they'd have a greater obligation to fulfill the promises made: update schedules, device lifespan, OS compatibility, etc. That would put more pressure on manufacturers to adhere to Google's whims, instead of allowing manufacturers to do whatever they want in terms of price/OS--that was the freedom and flexibility that the Open Handset Alliance was meant to offer manufacturers.
Android is too unwieldy and manufacturers (and Google) are making more money just throwing things out there and hoping that they stick than they would if they solidify anything related to the software on devices--which is what they would have to do if they began to charge for the OS.
They also run the risk of exposure to even more complicated licensing issues. You thought the Oracle debacle is bad, if Google were charging end users directly it would have been far worse for them because of the money they would have made on IP that came from sources that: (1) didn't put it out there to be 'profitable' to any one particular entity, (2) didn't put it out there in the first place (allegedly), etc.
Read this for a good perspective of where Google and the Android update schedules actually sit at the moment. Google tired to get a group of hardware makers to agree to timely updates and virtually nothing came from it. Google has no control.
http://www.tested.com/news/what-googles-android-update-deal-means-for-fragmentation/2310/
Sad but true.
I wish there were a Nexus with a physical keyboard.
I remain optimistic for the Flyer. I don't expect much from HTC, but I believe one of our independent developers will pick the ICS ball up and run with it.
HTC has shown a previous pattern of leaving their customers behind. I hope it is changing, but I don't count on it.
I've been a Nexus phone user for a long time, and now I own a Nexus 7 tablet. My wife just got a Galaxy S2 (work provided) and I find what Samsung has done to the software of that phone appalling. Especially since Ice Cream Sandwich Android has become minimalistically beautiful. I love my stock "Google Experience". Everything is so simple and beautiful.
My question is this, would it be feasible to crowd source an open sourced hardware project to design and build an android phone? I've developed software for years but don't know anything about developing hardware outside of my arduino kit. Hardware vendors are failing by trying to focus on software (like Samsung and HTC) as the differentiator, seemingly forgetting that thy are hardware manufacturers and great hardware should be enough.
My thought is to design a fairly cheap (at or under $500), hopefully high quality phone that is compatible with stock Android. Think something like the Nexus 7 only at 4-4.3 inches and with a cell radio. If its compatible with stock Android then we wouldn't have to spend time like Samsung does making our software compatible with the newest Android release before making it available to the public.
Are there any hardware engineers out there who might be able to tell me what this would take? I'm sure it would take a lot of people and a lot of time, and might not be possible without billions in the bank, but I'd like to know if the necessary skills exist in the community and if we can pull them together.
I doubt it will be possible just because of the amount of funds necessary to begin such a project. OEM's can make their devices because they order components in mass quantities so they get wholesale pricing and I just don't see the demand for such a device being enough to crowd-source it.
I think that the phone hardware should be a mid-low quality one in order to get the funds needed to slowly start making them. And even with that, it's not an easy task, since you will be selling a mid-low quality device for the price of a high quality one. You would have to offer something more.
But it's an interesting idea.
I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.
Haraldr Blaatand said:
I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.
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That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.
rharter said:
That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
1. You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
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Then I'm not as smart as I think I am. It was a guess. I was wrong.
rharter said:
2. What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.
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This is a complete phone they are selling to carriers (to help get their Atom processors some attention). From this article about the Medfield reference design:
The more tempting possibility is one that I'm not sure Intel is feeling risky enough to explore, at least not in 2012. Selling its reference design through a carrier is one thing, what I really want to see is Intel selling the reference design, unlocked, to consumers directly.
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So, without more information, I don't see this as any different than most other phones. The phone is still a black box to be hacked.
I did a little googling, and didn't find anything in the way of actual design details. I did come across this article Fast, good, or cheap - or why you can't build a smartphone, which basically says the same thing... only with a more cynical attitude.
Does anyone know how Sony are doing with sales of the Ultra? I have not managed to find anything on the net regarding this?
I just wondered how popular such a large phablet is?
Ryland
I have no idea. It could be 20, 100000 or 1 million. Take your guess.
LordManhattan said:
I have no idea. It could be 20, 100000 or 1 million. Take your guess.
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There are at least 4 in NZ, that I know of - a country of 4 +million, extrapolate that to the world population - that means that there should be about 8000 sold
We'll never know because that will translate to how much tax they gonna pay lol...
Ryland Johnson said:
Does anyone know how Sony are doing with sales of the Ultra? I have not managed to find anything on the net regarding this?
I just wondered how popular such a large phablet is?
Ryland
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I wanna know it too.
Going to say more than 200,000 units
Sent from my C6833 using xda app-developers app
Sony has released its numbers for Q3. They sold 10.7 million Xperia devices in Q3 which means they sold, and will sell around 40 million Xperia devices this year, which is a lot more than i thought myself. How many of those 40 millions are Ultras? I have no idea, but at least 1/40 should be Ultras, so 1 million (yes, i'm only speculating).
LordManhattan said:
Sony has released its numbers for Q3. They sold 10.7 million Xperia devices in Q3 which means they sold, and will sell around 40 million Xperia devices this year, which is a lot more than i thought myself. How many of those 40 millions are Ultras? I have no idea, but at least 1/40 should be Ultras, so 1 million (yes, i'm only speculating).
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I had no idea Sony mobile where selling in that sort of volumes. I have been keeping an eye on Samsung sales and knock all other mobiles way out of the ball park. Oddly enough when magazines mention and debate mobile sales only three main names even appear, Samsung, Apple and LG. HTC even Nokia have been trying hard to play catch up.
Blackberry, Nokia, Motorola and HTC have all been in dire straits this past few years.
Sony has also obviously pulled itself up by its shoes laces as they also saw a very large drop in sales. I am pleased to see Sony making headway again. If only Nokia had made Android phones. Now they never will.
Just imagine the size of the Samsung empire! Jeez its a behemoth of a company. Must be THE most successful electronics manufacturer of all times not to mention its heavy and light engineering divisions. Korea became what Japan once was as Japan became what the UK once was.
No prizes for guessing what the new leading countries are going to be.
Interesting.
Ryland
Yeah, and Sony sold its VAIO division today. It's a sad day, but I think this will make Sony even better and they'll hopefully think twice before they do anything or think about releasing mediocre products. Sony should only release well engineered and designed products from now on, so they can get back to being the company they once were, that Steve Jobs admired and loved.
(Yes, Jobs looked up to Sony back in the day)
Sent from my old Desire HD using Morse code
LordManhattan said:
Yeah, and Sony sold its VAIO division today. It's a sad day, but I think this will make Sony even better and they'll hopefully think twice before they do anything or think about releasing mediocre products. Sony should only release well engineered and designed products from now on, so they can get back to being the company they once were, that Steve Jobs admired and loved.
(Yes, Jobs looked up to Sony back in the day)
Sent from my old Desire HD using Morse code
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Sansui, Sanyo, Toshiba, Aiwa, Nakamichi, Pioneer, Rotel, Technics, Akai, Sony, Nagaoka. Denon JVC, Hitachi, Stax, AT, Sharp, Kenwood, TEAC, Onkyo, Marantz ............Many of those names in Hi-fi where legendary. Some have now disappeared all together.
Nakamichi made some of the greatest tape decks ever produced while Pioneer of old made some outstanding amplifiers as did Sansui. Sony AV multi channel audio amps.... So many now owned by other companies or gone for ever. Sony was one of the high street brands one could take for granted as being top of the range. Must add very expensive BUT one used to get what one paid for.
Sony has been one of the only brands to have their own high street shops as do B&O and Apple.
I have also been reading some reports today about Sony and the billions in sales they make every year yet some sections of the company still manage not to make a profit while others only make a few million in profit. Some years ago Sony nearly went under all together.
Rather pleased to see Sony now back on the right track. Sony have always been a niche market and never sold in massive numbers with regard to Hi-fi, Mobiles and TV's etc. Perhaps they diversified to much by purchasing all those Hollywood film companies?
I waffle, Sorry,
Ryland
Ryland Johnson said:
Sansui, Sanyo, Toshiba, Aiwa, Nakamichi, Pioneer, Rotel, Technics, Akai, Sony, Nagaoka. Denon JVC, Hitachi, Stax, AT, Sharp, Kenwood, TEAC, Onkyo, Marantz ............Many of those names in Hi-fi where legendary. Some have now disappeared all together.
Nakamichi made some of the greatest tape decks ever produced while Pioneer of old made some outstanding amplifiers as did Sansui. Sony AV multi channel audio amps.... So many now owned by other companies or gone for ever. Sony was one of the high street brands one could take for granted as being top of the range. Must add very expensive BUT one used to get what one paid for.
Sony has been one of the only brands to have their own high street shops as do B&O and Apple.
I have also been reading some reports today about Sony and the billions in sales they make every year yet some sections of the company still manage not to make a profit while others only make a few million in profit. Some years ago Sony nearly went under all together.
Rather pleased to see Sony now back on the right track. Sony have always been a niche market and never sold in massive numbers with regard to Hi-fi, Mobiles and TV's etc. Perhaps they diversified to much by purchasing all those Hollywood film companies?
I waffle, Sorry,
Ryland
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Great post. I also just read that Sony is cutting loose its Ebook business. It's pretty obvious they're restructuring the company and are cutting loose everything that doesn't make them a profit. It makes perfect sense, and i support the decision. They should focus on a few things, and make them as good as possible, and not do everything half assed and hope for the best.
although their ereader is good.
Down here they have a good chunk of the TV market,although I suspect Samsung is making inroads into it
Not enough sold. The Z.Ultra is a ahead of its time. If the screen was bigger in the same form factor would be amazing.
Sent from my C6833 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Please continue...:good:
herogjan said:
Please continue...:good:
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You may well regret saying that:laugh:
Product identity and consumer understanding.
Grab a coffee, this could be a long post...........
Like most of us I spend a fair amount of time reading various reports, industry reviews and forum posts. There is an awful lot of confusion with regard to mobile devices.
When is a mobile phone a mobile phone and when is a tablet a tablet? Part of the sales problems with the in between range of devices is identity. Unofficially we have named them 'phablets'. This IS important. Far to many professional reviewers write about the size of over 5" screens as being to big and not mobile. I tend to agree with them. Hang on. I tend to agree with them when they review said device as a mobile phone. IF we could officially adopt an industry name and categorisation such as 'phablet' this would reduce customer confusion and also help with sales and customer satisfaction.
When the net book was introduced they initially came out with an 8" screen. Toshiba made them, started a whole new segment in the portable device section. Consumers then purchased them and moaned about the screen being too small! Next model came with a 9" then 10" then before we new it we where in the lap top range so customers reverted back to lap tops and the net book died.
Then came the ultra book with an Intel industry specification. That seems to have worked as the industry has kept to that specification thus there is zero identity crisis when one purchases an ultra book.
The Xperia Ultra et al are not true mobile phones. With this is mind such devices come under an awful lot of fire as reviewers compare such devices with, for example, the Apple 5S. rather absurd when one thinks about it BUT understandable because as yet the term 'phablet' is unofficial. it matters, identity matters to avoid wrong and negative comparison.
IF those who make 'phablets' call them 'phablets' and box them as 'phablets' the consumer can make a much more educated choice of purchase.
The Ultra and those of a similar size should be marketed as a new breed of device, their strengths should be highlighted and that way this constant comparison game wold stop. No one reviews a car with a motor bike! Tow different machines.
I would very much like to see an industry standard with regard to this situation and each device market under that criteria. So much criticism is aimed at the Ultra also Note and Mega etc as being too big as a mobile phone. They ARE! They are not too big if we call them what they are...vis,,,a phablet
A phablet is not a mobile phone nor a tablet so why should we not celebrate the difference and concentrate on our phablets strengths?
Words and correct identification matter. Sales and consumer opinion matter. To this end we could boost sales also have a greater customer level of satisfaction if we called out Ultra et al what it is and not what it is not. What is the problem with the large companies marketing their phablets as phablets?
Just another ramble.
Ryland
jah said:
Not enough sold. The Z.Ultra is a ahead of its time. If the screen was bigger in the same form factor would be amazing.
Sent from my C6833 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I understand your point completely. May I suggest the following? Maybe sales are affected due to consumer confusion vis, its much to large and rather preposterous to be sold under the guess of a 'mobile phone' YET absolutely spot of size for a superb 'phablet'?
Second point. Sony went thin on the Ultra. To reduce those top and bottom large bezels would mean making the Ultra fatter. if we think on this for a while it is logic as the electronic components have to go some where. If we take pastry we start with a think lump not wide.as we roll it out it becomes thinner and bigger, same amount of pastry in both scenarios though, not my best analogy!:silly:
Hey. Much better example. The MPV, its not a car nor a mini van and isn't sold as either it has its own unique identity
Visit the sites of Phone manufactures and they separate, for obvious reason, a phablet from a mobile phone. Why not introduce that third option the phablet? Correct and accurate branding will help greatly with sales as we human being do love to compartmentalise things be it people, behaviours or purchases, all to do with out comfort zones.
Place an Apple iPhone 5S along side an Ultra, mega or Note3 et al and call them 'mobile phones' and............its just speaks for itself.
Now remove that possibility and introduce a new product category with the correct sales identification and you have a wonderful option. More than a mobile phone and more portable than a tablet, its a phablet..........away ya go..........:good:
IF only life was that simple eh?
Ryland
blueether said:
There are at least 4 in NZ, that I know of - a country of 4 +million, extrapolate that to the world population - that means that there should be about 8000 sold
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LOL... love the logic!
60% of the time... it works everytime !!
---------- Post added at 06:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------
LordManhattan said:
Great post. I also just read that Sony is cutting loose its Ebook business. It's pretty obvious they're restructuring the company and are cutting loose everything that doesn't make them a profit. It makes perfect sense, and i support the decision. They should focus on a few things, and make them as good as possible, and not do everything half assed and hope for the best.
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Sony have their own finance company in Japan. makes tens of millions profit. Their manufacturing dep. don't make nearly as much. However their view is to "Be the brand of choice in the hearts and minds of our customers by delivering the best customer experience."
They said they didn't believe other electronic consumer companies did that, so they decided to stay in the market.
Interesting... I have had an excellent experience with their products... but not after sales service...
Guys, please help me.
I want to go live on Instagram, transmitting the audio from my interface, with voice and guitar, through a Y cable, which I already do on my notebook.
I need a cell phone that would recognize audio capture via a Y cable, as the main source of capture.
The Motorola G5s phone, for example, does not recognize it.
Which devices would recognize an external audio signal (via Y cable) as standard, so that I can make musical lives with a decent sound on Instagram?
Which devices would suit me?
In the description of the technical specifications, what is the difference or characteristic to look for among so many devices?
Thank you all
arunzito said:
Guys, please help me.
I want to go live on Instagram, transmitting the audio from my interface, with voice and guitar, through a Y cable, which I already do on my notebook.
I need a cell phone that would recognize audio capture via a Y cable, as the main source of capture.
The Motorola G5s phone, for example, does not recognize it.
Which devices would recognize an external audio signal (via Y cable) as standard, so that I can make musical lives with a decent sound on Instagram?
Which devices would suit me?
In the description of the technical specifications, what is the difference or characteristic to look for among so many devices?
Thank you all
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If you're talking about a splitter cable (3.5 mm jack --> mic input and headphones input) I have it working on my Moto E 2015 LTE. But that device isn't good for live Instagram ( not enough power ).
There aren't any specs that say that, usually every phone does that.
So if you want a phone able to do that, take a phone you like, ask someone around you to test your Y cable on it and buy it if it works (it works for me with my OnePlus 8 with an OTG headphone jack, because the OP8 doesn't have a headphone jack)
Thanks, Raiz
Raiz said:
If you're talking about a splitter cable (3.5 mm jack --> mic input and headphones input) I have it working on my Moto E 2015 LTE. But that device isn't good for live Instagram ( not enough power ).
There aren't any specs that say that, usually every phone does that.
So if you want a phone able to do that, take a phone you like, ask someone around you to test your Y cable on it and buy it if it works (it works for me with my OnePlus 8 with an OTG headphone jack, because the OP8 doesn't have a headphone jack)
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Raiz, thank you so much.
The OnePlus 8 costs a lot more than i can afford right now.
So, 'i'm looking for a more popular model, do you know something about a more popular device which could fulfill my expectations? It has to have enough power and accept a external audio capture...
But thanks a lot.
arunzito said:
Raiz, thank you so much.
The OnePlus 8 costs a lot more than i can afford right now.
So, 'i'm looking for a more popular model, do you know something about a more popular device which could fulfill my expectations? It has to have enough power and accept a external audio capture...
But thanks a lot.
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I think a Xiaomi phone would fit your needs. Usually I don't recommend Chinese phones due to the growing concerns about privacy and spying (Xiaomi has already been caught doing so). But you'll find powerful devices for not much. I can also recommend you without any hesitation Pixel devices, LG and Motorola. Never been disappointed by those 3 so far. (There's the Pixel 4a coming soon at 359$, it's a sweet price for a very very very good phone!).
Raiz said:
Usually I don't recommend Chinese phones due to the growing concerns about privacy and spying (Xiaomi has already been caught doing so).
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My 2 cents:
The truth is that every phone spies on you to some extent, and most Android smartphones have security flaws related to the platform's relatively open software model.
AFAIK there's no public evidence as of yet that Chinese-made phones will endanger the privacy or digital security of the ordinary Non-China resident.
IMO bashing all the phones that are classified as "Chinese" is a little unfair. Almost all smartphones are manufactured in China, including phones designed and sold by Apple, Google and Samsung. And some Chinese brands, such as Xiaomi, OnePlus and Huawei, have good reputations.
Well, some Chinese-made phones have been caught sending a suspicious amount of data back to servers in China, if only for commercial reasons. But we all know each Windows computer does so, too. Mr Trump has not been bothered by this so far.
jwoegerbauer said:
My 2 cents:
The truth is that every phone spies on you to some extent, and most Android smartphones have security flaws related to the platform's relatively open software model.
AFAIK there's no public evidence as of yet that Chinese-made phones will endanger the privacy or digital security of the ordinary Non-China resident.
IMO bashing all the phones that are classified as "Chinese" is a little unfair. Almost all smartphones are manufactured in China, including phones designed and sold by Apple, Google and Samsung. And some Chinese brands, such as Xiaomi, OnePlus and Huawei, have good reputations.
Well, some Chinese-made phones have been caught sending a suspicious amount of data back to servers in China, if only for commercial reasons. But we all know each Windows computer does so, too. Mr Trump has not been bothered by this so far.
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I made a mistake showing my opinion by " I don't recommend", usually I just point the fact that there are trust issues, without saying what I recommend to do about Chinese phones.
Yes, every phone spies on you, and we accept that every time we download an app containing ad services, or when browsing the internet and accepting cookies.
Yes they have security flaws, corrected by regular security patches.
Case causing trust issues among Chinese "popular" phones:
Xiaomi: https://www.xda-developers.com/xiao...mint-collecting-browsing-data-incognito-mode/
Huawei (the most untrusted):
https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/u...ying-through-law-enforcement-backdoors-2020-2
Huawei 5G antennas: (ban in UK, will be banned in 2025 in France, Germany is discussing the question, as well as the European Union)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...th-experts-warning-of-chinese-spying/12424608
OnePlus (I own one):
No serious stories yet...
Those are "out-of-privacpolicy" stories, but the privacy policy of OnePlus is very demanding, and sends a lot of data (hopefully custom ROMs are here to free me from those conditions).
The point of banning Huawei 5G from other countries is the proof that non-China resident are affected. Same for all others stories
Bashing Chinese phone is an opinion, and XDA isn't a place to bashing China and their politics. I made a mistake when writing that, usually I just say there are trust issues, but this time I said "I don't recommend", that's my opinion, and I try not to show it, just letting people know about those concerns.
China may manufacture phones, but it doesn't allows them to have any control on the data the phones will hold, the data is collected through internet on the company's servers, and the people who assembles phones aren't those who manipulate the user's data. User's data is the goal of companies nowadays, and is used by them to make profit with custom ads.
Those brands have a good reputation only because they sells good phones at a cheap price, not because they're trustworthy (see articles above, this is why I don't buy Xiaomi or Huawei, good phones but not trustworthy).
Data is sent back maybe for commercial reasons, so does Google and every other brands these days, it's not a threat, the threat is that other kind of data could be sent under the label "commercial profile" when really it's spying, spy on scientific research, on classified data processed on the device (emails, documents, ...). Here's the threat.
America may spy on its people, but if it's uncovered, their surely will be demonstrations and other social movements. In China nothing will be said or done (and it's not the fault of Chinese people, you know whose it is).
E.g: George Floyd Government reaction Vs Hong Kong Government reaction... (It's getting political sorry about that)
And privacy with Americans brands are way more user-controled (Google dashboard for example, plus the option to opt-out from aimed advertisement,...)
As I said, Chinese phone's privacy policy is way heavier, and is a huge con when buying them.
Huawei, Xiaomi, OnePlus... make cheap devices and they're really good, I can't deny it. But since there is a really good amount of concerns about Chinese brands in the world right now, I feel important to notice people about it. I'll try to be more neutral about it next time.
And small poke to XDA and Huawei, when Huawei try to force its way into the community, they get so bashed that threads are locked to avoid that to happen.
Quick reminder: XDA Portal team is in no way involved with Huawei, it's their Commercials team that was recently renamed "Team XDA" (Previous Name was "XDA Commercial Team" )which seemed not fair since we can't tell it's commercial right away, and which is why I poke jokes.
Sorry, XDA isn't the place to debate about politics, but I needed to address my mistake (and this post will most likely be referred to as my statement about why I point out trust issues with Chinese phones)
Have a good one
Raiz said:
I think a Xiaomi phone would fit your needs. Usually I don't recommend Chinese phones due to the growing concerns about privacy and spying (Xiaomi has already been caught doing so). But you'll find powerful devices for not much. I can also recommend you without any hesitation Pixel devices, LG and Motorola. Never been disappointed by those 3 so far. (There's the Pixel 4a coming soon at 359$, it's a sweet price for a very very very good phone!).
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Raiz,
Thank you once again for your kind attention.
I have noticed that here are versions of Android. My Moto G5s is version 8.1.0, and this phone does not accept external audio caption. Could it be that higher versions would serve me as far as accepting external audio capture? In this case, from which version is it possible to rely on?
When we talk about power, what would be a devices's specs for 'enough power' to make lives? Meaning, how can i identify the power of a device in its specs?
Thanks a lot for your concern about the privacy thing.
In my vision we are all hostages and there is nothing to do about it, but just flow with the music the parasites, owners of the oligarchic system, are making. Terrible music. But this too, shall pass. For now let's dance to this rhythm. :fingers-crossed:
Thanks so much once again.
Best :laugh: