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From what I know, bootloader loads kernel then gives control to it. So why we have to modify the bootloader? Can we just modify the kernel?
My understanding is: "signed bootloader + bootloader checking kernel's integrity" is a problem. Signed bootloader itself is not a problem.
Please educate me.
If I understand correctly:
The signed bootloader checks the signature of the kernel.
If you modify the kernel the bootloader won't recognize it.
This whole situation has me wondering "so what?" People talk about a signed bootloader like it's a permanent state. Uncrackable. Well of course it's crackable! Software encryptions are cracked all the time, what makes the Atrix any different?
jwhited said:
This whole situation has me wondering "so what?" People talk about a signed bootloader like it's a permanent state. Uncrackable. Well of course it's crackable! Software encryptions are cracked all the time, what makes the Atrix any different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes everything is crackable but it takes time for computers to crack them. Some encryptions can take 3 seconds to crack on a super computer while the more hardcore encryptions can take months to crack on that same super computer.
Squadfer said:
Yes everything is crackable but it takes time for computers to crack them. Some encryptions can take 3 seconds to crack on a super computer while the more hardcore encryptions can take months to crack on that same super computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I guess the question is, "Is anyone working on this?" If not, what needs to happen in order to get the ball rolling, so to speak?
jwhited said:
So I guess the question is, "Is anyone working on this?" If not, what needs to happen in order to get the ball rolling, so to speak?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About 20 thousand dollars. Just for the support computer.
jwhited said:
This whole situation has me wondering "so what?" People talk about a signed bootloader like it's a permanent state. Uncrackable. Well of course it's crackable! Software encryptions are cracked all the time, what makes the Atrix any different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes the difference is the Atrix possibly has encryption/sighned bootloader going all the way to the hardware on the chip. Meaning you'd need to actually replace the chip on the main board with a non signed one
Clienterror said:
What makes the difference is the Atrix possibly has encryption/sighned bootloader going all the way to the hardware on the chip. Meaning you'd need to actually replace the chip on the main board with a non signed one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or perhaps it's possible to sandbox that part of the bootloader to its own region, and have an alternate loader that doesn't do a signature check?
I mean, I know this is all based on speculation, but I can imagine numerous possibilities.
For us with currently unlockable bootloaders (branded phones), will removing the sim-lock give us the option to unlock the bootloader?
No
That was a definitive answer. Strange, cause I know people with unlockable bootloaders in their Arcs and Rays have managed to unlock them.
Sent from my LT18i using XDA
We just have to wait for a dev to crack it
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
Retardo25 said:
That was a definitive answer. Strange, cause I know people with unlockable bootloaders in their Arcs and Rays have managed to unlock them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm, O2 UK unlock code does not alter the bootloader status
Slightly worried about getting the phone from Rogers here. Hopefully the Sony store will have a working unit so I can enter the command into the dialer to see if I can easily unlock it or not.
Daymmm, this is hard to hear lol...
am i right in saying that we cant root our phones without unlocking the bootloader first?
guji-dude said:
Daymmm, this is hard to hear lol...
am i right in saying that we cant root our phones without unlocking the bootloader first?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently there is no way to root without unlocking the bootloader, it will probably come at some point, but not now .
There is no drawback to unlocking your bootloader though, as they will still probably accept your device for warranty, unless you fry your phone with overclocking and such.
But yea, branded phones cant be unlocked at this moment, or well, they haven't figured it out yet. So if you are branded you can't even unlock your bootloader...yet . Give it time, everything will be figured out in time .
Matt1408 said:
Slightly worried about getting the phone from Rogers here. Hopefully the Sony store will have a working unit so I can enter the command into the dialer to see if I can easily unlock it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am under the impression that selling it in the Canadian Sony store means it will not be branded for any carrier, since they'll be offering the phone unlocked. Probably even if they offer it on contract with a carrier like Rogers, it would still be unlocked, but just subsidized with your contract plan.
edit: They did say that the phone is exclusively with the Sony Store in Canada, so you can't get it straight from Rogers anyways, so no worries!
If there is brand in rogers, I am pretty sure they will lock the bootloader just like they did in xperia arc
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
Bought mine from the sony store locked to rogers. I can confirm that the bootloader are in fact locked. Bought mine at launch early tuesday morning.(12th)
They currently only sell XpS's locked to rogers. They unfortunately don't sell the unbranded version(/unlocked). They were also surprised by this fact apparently.
BTW the rogers bloatware that came with the device is annoying as hell. If you're going to buy on frim the Sony store in canada. Debranding would be the first thing I would suggest to do. Seeing as rooting or custom roming is out of the question.
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Have to admit that i'm a little disappointed i got my phone as soon as it was released on my neywork.
That was before the information came to light, that branded fw's have their bootloaders locked.
Had i known that BEFORE i took the plunge, i would have upgraded via a third party mobile phone shop.
I am even more disappointed to see custom roms and tweaks coming out, only to find myself unable to go anywhere near them. Grrrr!
I have de-branded my Xps but i still have the bloat-crap on it. Which is now filling the ten whole spaces in my main menu.
I have been checking on here everyday hoping for a root solution and also on the omnius and setool sites but still i am without a solution :-( and my biggest concern of all is...
As most the devs and rom chefs have unlocked bootloaders, that means hardly anyone (if anyone) will be working on a solution. Double :-(
Sent from my SGH T100 from xda premium app
Kiefels said:
Have to admit that i'm a little disappointed i got my phone as soon as it was released on my neywork.
That was before the information came to light, that branded fw's have their bootloaders locked.
Had i known that BEFORE i took the plunge, i would have upgraded via a third party mobile phone shop.
I am even more disappointed to see custom roms and tweaks coming out, only to find myself unable to go anywhere near them. Grrrr!
I have de-branded my Xps but i still have the bloat-crap on it. Which is now filling the ten whole spaces in my main menu.
I have been checking on here everyday hoping for a root solution and also on the omnius and setool sites but still i am without a solution :-( and my biggest concern of all is...
As most the devs and rom chefs have unlocked bootloaders, that means hardly anyone (if anyone) will be working on a solution. Double :-(
Sent from my SGH T100 from xda premium app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you bro
Don't worry, it will come
I have faith in this community that something will be figured out. A few weeks ago it wasn't even possible to flash custom kernels and such, and they managed to figure it out. Now that things are flowing nicely, the rom developers have started working on making things again, and maybe there's more things being looked into in terms of rooting.
I've been here since my X1 and the community hasn't let me down yet, I'm confident they will find a way to get a root, and probably (given the speed even a tester CM9 came out) before ICS.
I guess you might have wait for those paid software like setool .... It will be like the same case like xperia arc. Rogers or any branded phone do not allow bootloader unlock.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
My XS was locked to Orange UK 10 minutes back. Bootloader unlockable - No.
Got the code from Orange and phone unlocked to any network now.
Imagine my surprise when I saw this: Bootloader unlockable - Yes
Talk about double bonus
Too bad the phone is going to Sony on Monday for the yellow screen issue.
in_deed said:
My XS was locked to Orange UK 10 minutes back. Bootloader unlockable - No.
Got the code from Orange and phone unlocked to any network now.
Imagine my surprise when I saw this: Bootloader unlockable - Yes
Talk about double bonus
Too bad the phone is going to Sony on Monday for the yellow screen issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... I'm a bit skeptical though...
----
Yeah, I can't take the plunge and use this phone as my daily driver. Not with Timescape (or whatever you call the Sony UI). I want to be able to use AOSP apps. What I hate is when the UI elements creep over when you're using an app (stuff like checkboxes) and it just makes the overall experience feel inconsistant.
I have since buying the phone debranded it and flashed the singpore rom, and it does a good job at eliminating bloatware, but I want to go in deeper and install CM9 whenever that's ready.
The phone does have what looks like the test point connections, I wanted to mess around with them but I didn't have the proper screws to remove the battery cover. Anyone know what the size of the screws are so I can get a screwdriver that fits?
Matt1408 said:
The phone does have what looks like the test point connections, I wanted to mess around with them but I didn't have the proper screws to remove the battery cover. Anyone know what the size of the screws are so I can get a screwdriver that fits?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you could have done the test point process, I'm sure it would already be posted here. It's quite possible there will be some type of testpoint exploit in the future.. But as of now not the case. I wouldnt suggest messing around inside your phone unless your ready to void your warrenty and at least somewhat know what your doing.
Who knows you could be some secret dev-ninja-genius. ...but then again your asking about screwdriver sizes instead of just eyeballing it like most people would do, so I very much doubt that bro.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
RemixAngel said:
If you could have done the test point process, I'm sure it would already be posted here. It's quite possible there will be some type of testpoint exploit in the future.. But as of now not the case. I wouldnt suggest messing around inside your phone unless your ready to void your warrenty and at least somewhat know what your doing.
Who knows you could be some secret dev-ninja-genius. ...but then again your asking about screwdriver sizes instead of just eyeballing it like most people would do, so I very much doubt that bro.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know you were just trying to be mindfull of what happens to my phone and stuff, but if I "eyeballed" the size what good would it do if I don't have a small enough bit to fit the screw? I was able to remove the frearson screws but am missing the torx.
A test point method is still possible (maybe) but the reason that there are no posts about it is that the software used (Omnius, SEtools, etc) is not yet compatible with the XS.
Im toooo interested too, my phone has bootloader blocked for my phone company, so I cant get root or do anything
Im waiting, I hope too much they find a solution soon !
I want to know if Verizon can tell if your device is rooted.
I read that LG has a mechanism in which can relay information to VZW or LG regarding the root status.
Does anybody know if this is true?
If true, how can one circumvent or disable this feature? It would seem with bootloader unlock, one could overwrite any partitions that may contain spyware software that "calls home".
It seems that LG G4 seems to have some of this bogus software, and I'm wondering if the G3 is any better.
xdadevnube said:
I want to know if Verizon can tell if your device is rooted.
I read that LG has a mechanism in which can relay information to VZW or LG regarding the root status.
Does anybody know if this is true?
If true, how can one circumvent or disable this feature? It would seem with bootloader unlock, one could overwrite any partitions that may contain spyware software that "calls home".
It seems that LG G4 seems to have some of this bogus software, and I'm wondering if the G3 is any better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen any info regarding inherent software to report a modified device, however, if you call them for an issue and they probe your device ota, they will see its modified.
bweN diorD said:
I haven't seen any info regarding inherent software to report a modified device, however, if you call them for an issue and they probe your device ota, they will see its modified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think that is due to the Verizon apps on the phone. I'm not sure, but I believe if the Verizon apps (not sure exactly which ones) are frozen or removed, then their tech support isn't able to see root status of the device.
However, it seems that which the G4, there are additional partitions that we don't have access to due to lack of bootloader unlock that seem to contain possible spyware.
It seems to me that the G3 could be old enough that some of the newer mechanisms haven't been implemented yet (as seemingly implemented in G4).
So does the G3 bootloader unlock allow access to all partitions of the device?
xdadevnube said:
Yeah, I think that is due to the Verizon apps on the phone. I'm not sure, but I believe if the Verizon apps (not sure exactly which ones) are frozen or removed, then their tech support isn't able to see root status of the device.
However, it seems that which the G4, there are additional partitions that we don't have access to due to lack of bootloader unlock that seem to contain possible spyware.
It seems to me that the G3 could be old enough that some of the newer mechanisms haven't been implemented yet (as seemingly implemented in G4).
So does the G3 bootloader unlock allow access to all partitions of the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, we have pulled data from all relevant partitions. I'm not an expert on this, but I haven't heard of any we couldn't access.
Let's ignore the Chinese SnapDragon variant that has BL unlock and root.
For all the other SnapDragon versions, is it possible that they will never get bootloader unlock and root? I'm looking at the S8+ which has been released well over a year now and the SnapDragon variants also seem to not have root or BL unlock.
EDIT: Wow, even looking back at the S7, LineageOS is only supported on the Exynos models and none of the SnapDragons:
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/herolte
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/hero2lte
fuzzybabybunny said:
Let's ignore the Chinese SnapDragon variant that has BL unlock and root.
For all the other SnapDragon versions, is it possible that they will never get bootloader unlock and root? I'm looking at the S8+ which has been released well over a year now and the SnapDragon variants also seem to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's unlikely. It takes finding an actual exploit to unlock the bootloader which comes with tradeoffs. You will trip Knox which will permanently void your warrenty, as well as make it so Samsung Pay never works again. In the S8 it also cripples the battery to never charge over 85% I believe.
It's possible that someone may find an exploit to achieve root / unlock bootloader. I wouldn't hold out hope though. If you really have to have root / custom roms, don't get the US Snapdragon device. Or get another phone altogether.
todd3835 said:
It's unlikely. It takes finding an actual exploit to unlock the bootloader which comes with tradeoffs. You will trip Knox which will permanently void your warrenty, as well as make it so Samsung Pay never works again. In the S8 it also cripples the battery to never charge over 85% I believe.
It's possible that someone may find an exploit to achieve root / unlock bootloader. I wouldn't hold out hope though. If you really have to have root / custom roms, don't get the US Snapdragon device. Or get another phone altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. For me root is necessary. I've used Samsung ever since the S2. Besides being very very slow to release OS updates, they are notorious for no longer supporting and updating a phone that hardware-wise still has a TON of life left in it. When this happens, instead of being forced to upgrade I simply install something like LineageOS on it and get years of extra use out of it.
So for me root is very very important and I'm pretty mad that they stopped it for SnapDragon since at least the S7. Sound reasonable?
fuzzybabybunny said:
Thanks. For me root is necessary. I've used Samsung ever since the S2. Besides being very very slow to release OS updates, they are notorious for no longer supporting and updating a phone that hardware-wise still has a TON of life left in it. When this happens, instead of being forced to upgrade I simply install something like LineageOS on it and get years of extra use out of it.
So for me root is very very important and I'm pretty mad that they stopped it for SnapDragon since at least the S7. Sound reasonable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's a kind of "in the eye of the beholder" thing really.
Your not forced to upgrade phones. You don't have to actually root the phone to get use out of it once Samsung decides to stop issuing major OS updates, you can easily use the same OS for a long while. I know some brand new phones that are still being sold with older android OS's on them, and I know quite a few people who are getting a lot of use out of them.
Also it's not that they stopped it for the snapdragon phones as much as it is Samsung made the phone to be secure. If there is no exploit that can be found to install root on the phone then it means Samsung did what they were supposed to do when designing, creating and updating the phone. While I would also like the ability to root the phone at some point in time and customize it as I wish, I also do prefer to maintain the ability to keep my phone secure. Rooting the phone strips away some/most of that security by allowing full admin access to the phone's software (something that it was not originally intended to be sold with).
So like I said, it's an eye of the beholder thing....
fuzzybabybunny said:
Thanks. For me root is necessary. I've used Samsung ever since the S2. Besides being very very slow to release OS updates, they are notorious for no longer supporting and updating a phone that hardware-wise still has a TON of life left in it. When this happens, instead of being forced to upgrade I simply install something like LineageOS on it and get years of extra use out of it.
So for me root is very very important and I'm pretty mad that they stopped it for SnapDragon since at least the S7. Sound reasonable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As the other person said, there's nothing wrong with running an older OS. I typically upgrade every year or two, so I'm not too worried.
I used to always root and usually run something custom. The S9 Plus is the 2nd phone I haven't rooted,the LG v20 being the other. Honestly, the only thing I was missing was Titanium Backup. Google has gotten better about backing up app data. It isn't perfect, but it's a lot better. Samsung also included a decent backup app for restoring.
As for OS updates, we are already seeing Treble pay off. Sure, being able to use a GSI image would be nice but the alpha builds are further along than in previous years at the time from what I've read.
If you truly care about root / custom roms, you should probably get a pixel. They are the easiest to unlock, have the fastest updates, and will play so nicely with GSI images.
I wish I had researched this aspect of the 9/S9+ more before buying one.
I came from the S5, and the Galaxy S before, and didn't realize that the phone hadn't had root for a while (and was looking so doubtful)
Titanium Backup *was* a favorite root-enabled program, as well as a few others, and I liked LineageOS.
But I will probably stay with this phone for a while, now that I own it. It has been a good phone -- I just liked the freedom of a rooted phone.
fuzzybabybunny said:
Let's ignore the Chinese SnapDragon variant that has BL unlock and root.
For all the other SnapDragon versions, is it possible that they will never get bootloader unlock and root? I'm looking at the S8+ which has been released well over a year now and the SnapDragon variants also seem to not have root or BL unlock.
EDIT: Wow, even looking back at the S7, LineageOS is only supported on the Exynos models and none of the SnapDragons:
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/herolte
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/hero2lte
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Due to nobody trying to work on it actively I don't think more than likely not. We'd have to try to bring in somebody
Hi everyone.
I've pre-ordered an S23 Ultra and have also purchased a 2 year Samsung Care + plan. I've been using a OnePlus 5 from 5+ years now and the last Samsung device I used was Galaxy S2.
Since Samsung's warranty becomes void if the Knox is tripped, my question is, in case there is a screen/ hardware damage to a rooted device, can it be claimed for repair/ replacement under Samsung Care+?
Because in case a rooted device will not be considered under Samsung Care+ plan too, I think I would prefer to cancel the plan. I'm looking for your suggestions on this. I am located in Canada.
P.s. I see the following exception point mentioned in the T&C's of Samsung Care+, "Device malfunction or damage due to improper installation on, or improper equipment modification to the device."
It's up to Samsung. They may charge you for a new mobo as part of the repair. I would use abd edits to optimize it instead.
Drops will likely be it's biggest enemy; use a good case. These are heavy, corner hitting, face planting happy phones when dropped. With no case a 3 foot drop onto concrete will likely damage it.
You can't trip Knox or root your phone on the Canadian or US S23U. And Samsung Care+ in Canada is only for Canadian phones. So I'm not sure why you're even worrying about this problem?
peacey8 said:
You can't trip Knox or root your phone on the Canadian or US S23U. And Samsung Care+ in Canada is only for Canadian phones. So I'm not sure why you're even worrying about this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you not trip Knox when rooting? Isn't it an electric fuse that trips when the bootloader is unlocked and rooted?
amirage said:
How can you not trip Knox when rooting? Isn't it an electric fuse that trips when the bootloader is unlocked and rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess they can't unlock bootloader so no chance for knox trip.
I
Joloxx9 said:
I guess they can't unlock bootloader so no chance for knox trip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't necessary to unlock the bootloader to root the device?
amirage said:
I
Isn't necessary to unlock the bootloader to root the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is necessary and unlocking bootloader trips knox
Joloxx9 said:
It is necessary and unlocking bootloader trips knox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, this goes back to @peacey8. How is it possible to not trip Knox when unlocking the bootloader unless there's a country regulation stipulating this?
There currently is no way to unlock the bootloader in the US and Canada. Additionally there is no working root exploit for these phones. It should be near impossible to trip Knox in the locked state. So it's nothing to worry about.
Unlocking the bootloader doesn't trip the Knox efuse, loading an unauthorized bootloader does.
Apparently paid services have been able to unlock the N10+'s and maybe other Snaps. I'm not that interested so haven't followed this too closely. The remote service could potentially install malware and I refuse to risk bricking a valuable device.
blackhawk said:
It's up to Samsung. They may charge you for a new mobo as part of the repair. I would use abd edits to optimize it instead.
Drops will likely be it's biggest enemy; use a good case. These are heavy, corner hitting, face planting happy phones when dropped. With no case a 3 foot drop onto concrete will likely damage it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi what's abd edits?
It's up to the person checking. Some may take it in for warranty even if the knox is tripped but some won't. I've had that experience before.
marvi0 said:
Hi what's abd edits?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using ADB commands to remove bloatware is probably the most common example.
amirage said:
So, this goes back to @peacey8. How is it possible to not trip Knox when unlocking the bootloader unless there's a country regulation stipulating this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cannot unlock the bootloader on North American variants. Only European. So my point is this question is moot, not that Knox won't be tripped if you unlock bootloader.
peacey8 said:
You can't trip Knox or root your phone on the Canadian or US S23U. And Samsung Care+ in Canada is only for Canadian phones. So I'm not sure why you're even worrying about this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Omg! I've recently shifted to Canada and was not aware about this.
Now I wonder, why did I order this 1900 CA$ device.
Is there no way to unlock bootloader in Canadian S23 Ultra units? I am unsure if I'd be able to manage with a phone without an ability to flash a custom ROM.
therealashish said:
Is there no way to unlock bootloader in Canadian S23 Ultra units?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at this time.
therealashish said:
I am unsure if I'd be able to manage with a phone without an ability to flash a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might as well get used to it as this is the way the industry is going. For example OnePlus 11 allows unlocking the bootloader but there is no longer a free way to fix your device if you brick it since the 9RT came out. This has meant that the 10T and 10 Pro have had basically no development.
Pixels have unlockable bootloader still and plenty of custom ROMs are available but... well... you'll be dealing with a lot of other headaches like a battery that probably won't even make it 24 hours on wifi and much less than that on 5G thanks to an inferior Samsung modem. They also have random hardware problems like I've had my screen start flickering and eventually get green lines twice on my Pixel 7 Pro and there have been many others reporting similar issues and now there are reports of pieces straight up falling off the phone surfacing too and this thing has only been out since October...
Pick your poison I guess.
wow , this is nuts . Any reason why other than make sure they sell their own software?
5-8 years ago we were laughing about Apple, but now android are doing the same thing.
Those phone a solid 8 years phone power wise, and the only way to keep them updated is aftermarket ROM !
OP, Im coming also from a OnePLus 5, and also from canada.
I also paid 1900$.
And I'm starting to regret my choice, I have only few days to return it.
Should I get a Oneplus 11 ???
I have had Android Phones since the OG T-Mobile G1. Back then, I rooted EVERY phone I have had.
Now, what is the big deal about Rooting? EVERYTHING I rooted for, you can do now without rooting. I don't get it.
Maybe I am just getting old? LOL!
Talderon said:
Now, what is the big deal about Rooting? EVERYTHING I rooted for, you can do now without rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are still some apps that don't work without root. For example I use Network Signal Guru to read the QCI and report my findings back to reddit. I also use root so that I can take screenshots of any app or screen I choose (the secure flag really irritates me - even Apple doesn't dictate where and when you can take a screenshot of crap on your own device yet I can't even take a screenshot of the Comcast cap usage screen to send to my roommate unless I log into their website).
I can live without both of these things which is why I decided to get the S23U but I'll miss them regardless.
EtherealRemnant said:
There are still some apps that don't work without root. For example I use Network Signal Guru to read the QCI and report my findings back to reddit. I also use root so that I can take screenshots of any app or screen I choose (the secure flag really irritates me - even Apple doesn't dictate where and when you can take a screenshot of crap on your own device yet I can't even take a screenshot of the Comcast cap usage screen to send to my roommate unless I log into their website).
I can live without both of these things which is why I decided to get the S23U but I'll miss them regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!! I get that some apps won't work without root, but it seems now that people want to root more to say they did than have a real reason for it.
I e given up on rooting mainly because of the inherent stability issue with Custom ROMs and the constant flashing.
Again, I just may be getting old. Lol!!!