Whats up all? I used to be a old school windows mobile flasher back in the tilt/fuze/tilt2 days. I was flashing 1-3 Roms a week
Ive had the iPhone 3gs, Nexus One, iPhone 4, HD7 and now im back to android on the Atrix.
Just asking a few questions hopefully you all can clear it up.
1. When i root the device does it delete all my already install apps/contacts etc or will everything stay the same?
2. Is it worth rooting? I really havent had any trouble with battery life or the phone as it is, plus i plan on updating to 2.3 when *if ever* they release the update. And from my understanding you have to flash back to stock to do that.
3. What benefits can you gain from rooting the atrix compared to just stock?
Thanks all!
Honestly there's not a huge advantage to rooting right this minute, but that will likely change.
Most people root in order to allow them to install third party *gasp* 'non AT&T approved apps, but you can actually do that without rooting suposedly, though I've never tried it.
You don't need root to be able to set up a wifi tether either, there's already a procedure posted for that.
The main reason to root is the ability to customize, and really its all about installing custom ROMs. With this phone having a signed bootloader there's no guarantee that this will ever be possible on this phone, although I'd put my money on someone figuring it out.
Unless you have a specific reason or need to root you can probably wait it out until custom ROMs are around and then do it.
Also, you need root access to install Titanium Backup, which is a very handy app.
Thanks for the reply!
So as for rooting will that delete all my current data? I know back when i flashed ROMS for WM it would pretty much delete everything. But jailbreaking on the iPhone was fairily easy as it didnt touch any of my apps/pics/messages
anyone?
7boo said:
Thanks for the reply!
So as for rooting will that delete all my current data? I know back when i flashed ROMS for WM it would pretty much delete everything. But jailbreaking on the iPhone was fairily easy as it didnt touch any of my apps/pics/messages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting shouldn't change anything. It should only change a few things in /system, but that won't affect your data. When installing a new ROM, it's generally recommend that you go through a full deletion, but rooting your phone won't alter your data.
To put it in perspective, you already had root in WM, so there's no real equivalent to that there. When flashing, WM didn't differentiate between OS and user partitions, so you would always lose everything. Android does differentiate, but differences can frequently cause problems, so it's generally recommended that you wipe after installing a different ROM (re-flashing the same ROM should always be okay).
thanks man thats what i was looking for
I just bought a Z3CT(SGP612) and am a bit confused.
The first big question is about DRM key thing. Why do I care about them if I don't have any other Sony devices (Playstation etc.) and probably won't ever. I read in one thread that these keys may be non-recoverable, but in another thread it was said they could be saved and restored. What are the best practices for doing this?
Second, and I'm stuck here until this thread works, or further research surfaces the answer. I just bought this unit, it's brand new out of box. I'm probably the last man on earth to buy one, but....The device is nagging me to update, but I think that may end in tears. I'm afraid Sony official updates may render the device unrootable, or permanently lock the bootloader forcing me to beg Sony to do whatever I want to my own device. I think on 4.4.4 there is a way to unlock the bootloader without begging Sony to do it. The device is presently 4.4.4, build 23.0.1.A.0.167. The nagging update will take me to 23.0.1.A.3.12. I'm assuming there may be further updates beyond that to get to 23.4.xxxx. Should I accept this, and do any other updates, or proceed directly to one of the pre-rooted stock ftf files (sorry, what is ftf and acronym for?). I'd like to get to the latest 5.11 and have the ability to run adaway, make backups, have proper working SD card and USB OTG, and maybe run a few Xposed apps all of which mean I need root. As it's a virgin device I don't care about if I have to wipe the device in the process.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony/noob-guide-to-sony-ericsson-xperia-t3209012
http://xperiafirmware.com/8-firmware/77-sony-xperia-z3-tablet-compact
as i´m in the same situation as you i will share my experience / research so far:
1. Rooting works on different firmware with different methods, kingroot being one rather easy but with the drawback of sending personal phone data to uncertain chinese servers. Rooting 4.4 seems easier than 5.x.
2. Research showed that the DRM keys / TA partition is something to be backed up, just in case. But for backing up you need root but no unlocked bootloader (unlocking erases the keys).
3. Recoveries can be installed without unlocking the bootloader but need root(?).
This is where im right now with my progress - rooted, TA/DRM keys backed up and on a custom recovery but bootloader still locked and TA intact .. getting root demanded some patience and several tries though.
4. next step will be installing a prerooted 5.1 firmware i guess and everything has to be running fine
Hello, just got my Z4 after my old Z just got in the hand of my 2-year old son
I had rooted and installed a custom rom on that one (CM 12), but I never bothered with Sony own "things" such as the Bravia engine and all.
Now, given that there are not yet any interesting roms for the Z4 and that the developers' scene has never been so active for Sony's products (hence we won't probably see anything interesting for a while, in terms of rom), what are the true disadvantages of JUST rooting the device to install stuff like adaway, titanium backup and the rest of the goodies that rooting allows? Will I lose OTAs by simply unlocking the bootloader and rooting? Since the TA partition will be gone forever, what else are the side-effects of the rooting procedure?
Thanks for any help to a semi-noob.
Luca
astrovale said:
Hello, just got my Z4 after my old Z just got in the hand of my 2-year old son
I had rooted and installed a custom rom on that one (CM 12), but I never bothered with Sony own "things" such as the Bravia engine and all.
Now, given that there are not yet any interesting roms for the Z4 and that the developers' scene has never been so active for Sony's products (hence we won't probably see anything interesting for a while, in terms of rom), what are the true disadvantages of JUST rooting the device to install stuff like adaway, titanium backup and the rest of the goodies that rooting allows? Will I lose OTAs by simply unlocking the bootloader and rooting? Since the TA partition will be gone forever, what else are the side-effects of the rooting procedure?
Thanks for any help to a semi-noob.
Luca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apart from the minor Sony stuff that gets lost with the TA partition, I think I read you'll indeed lose the OTA updates abd the only way to upgrade your ROM is with Flashtool (from flashtool.net). Which is also no big deal, really. Just inconvenient, especially on Windows 8+, which you'll have to boot into a mode in which it accepts installation unsigned drivers needed for the tool.
Another potentially big disadvantage is warranty-related, of the bootloader unlocking. Depends on country and vendor.
Thanks a lot for your help Jelbo. Don't worry too much about using flashtool (done already). I remember though that there used to be a tool to backup TA partition. I'll look into it, but I guess that, if it's not here....
Never worried about warranty as well. I just hope I'll be lucky, I guess!
jelbo said:
Apart from the minor Sony stuff that gets lost with the TA partition, I think I read you'll indeed lose the OTA updates abd the only way to upgrade your ROM is with Flashtool (from flashtool.net). Which is also no big deal, really. Just inconvenient, especially on Windows 8+, which you'll have to boot into a mode in which it accepts installation unsigned drivers needed for the tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:crying::crying::crying: Another drawback which I haven't known. Meybe it's more comfortable to use virtual machine with flashtool.
astrovale said:
Thanks a lot for your help Jelbo. Don't worry too much about using flashtool (done already). I remember though that there used to be a tool to backup TA partition. I'll look into it, but I guess that, if it's not here....
Never worried about warranty as well. I just hope I'll be lucky, I guess!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backing up your TA is only possible when you have acquired root on your device without unlocking the bootloader. This is impossible as of now on the Z4 Tablet. Well, technically it might be possible, but no one has found an exploit yet. Maybe one will be found someday, but I wouldn't wait on it.
alex009988 said:
:crying::crying::crying: Another drawback which I haven't known. Meybe it's more comfortable to use virtual machine with flashtool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, don't see things so badly. There's lots to enjoy on the Z4T right now.
Running Flashtool with the flashmode driver in a VM is impossible I think. The driver thing on Windows 8+ is really easy tough.
Thanks Jelbo. I went and researched the subject and the first I read was that you need to be rooted to backup your TA partition (indeed I used for my Z the doomlord tool). Well, I guess I'll wait as much as I can, but I really miss adaway most: I hate those ads everywhere cluttering my apps!
Eventually, I'm afraid I'll root and forget about it! I was just wondering also what is the meaning of loosing the bravia engine, but I'll research that too and see. All I know is that I guess I lost it on my Z...but never missed it anyway, so I guess it isnt' that fundamental to enjoy a good tablet like the sony Z4!
Bye
Luca
astrovale said:
Thanks Jelbo. I went and researched the subject and the first I read was that you need to be rooted to backup your TA partition (indeed I used for my Z the doomlord tool). Well, I guess I'll wait as much as I can, but I really miss adaway most: I hate those ads everywhere cluttering my apps!
Eventually, I'm afraid I'll root and forget about it! I was just wondering also what is the meaning of loosing the bravia engine, but I'll research that too and see. All I know is that I guess I lost it on my Z...but never missed it anyway, so I guess it isnt' that fundamental to enjoy a good tablet like the sony Z4!
Bye
Luca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You won't miss the image 'enhancements' that are lost, especially when you care for color accuracy.
A cool thing I found out is that the Z4T supports 'KCAL', which enables you to tweak all kinds of image parameters using a tool like Kernel Adiutor.
Apart from killing ads, the thing I'm second most happy about with being rooted is the ability to permanently hide the soft keys using a build.prop edit, while keeping the ability to type anywhere. I mapped the back and home controls to sliding gestures from the left and right screen edges using a GMD app.
ok so please be gentle here, coming back here after 7 years, from old Windows Mobile days!
I am a newbie to Android and want to root my Z5 compact. The only reason I want to root it is to enable some apps like Greenify and GSam battery monitor to work with all their features enabled. I do not want to flash a new ROM. I am happy with Sony's stock ROM.
Is it possible to get root access without installing / flashing a new ROM?
I have searched the internet but people talk about flashing every time I read about rooting. Then I also saw this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/development/root-automatic-repack-stock-kernel-dm-t3301605
Lots of geeky stuff there which is fine, but again, it seems to talk about flashing the ROM, which I really do not want to do or do not see the need (yet).
Unlock boot loader:
I see that Sony lets me unlock the boot loader from their dev site. I am willing to unlock the boot loader. (Not sure if I want to do that first. Maybe unlocking BL is all I need?)
rajdude said:
ok so please be gentle here, coming back here after 7 years, from old Windows Mobile days!
I am a newbie to Android and want to root my Z5 compact. The only reason I want to root it is to enable some apps like Greenify and GSam battery monitor to work with all their features enabled. I do not want to flash a new ROM. I am happy with Sony's stock ROM.
Is it possible to get root access without installing / flashing a new ROM?
I have searched the internet but people talk about flashing every time I read about rooting. Then I also saw this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/development/root-automatic-repack-stock-kernel-dm-t3301605
Lots of geeky stuff there which is fine, but again, it seems to talk about flashing the ROM, which I really do not want to do or do not see the need (yet).
Unlock boot loader:
I see that Sony lets me unlock the boot loader from their dev site. I am willing to unlock the boot loader. (Not sure if I want to do that first. Maybe unlocking BL is all I need?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only reason to use that guide is to backup ta keys for whatever reason you'd want to do that.
If you're after root on stock ROM the single easiest way is to unlock bootloader, flash twrp 3.0.2, flash xpower 3.0, and that's it. Solid marshmallow with root goodies. Xpower has everything and is deodexed and ready for xposed framework.
just a little more clarification please?
civicsr2cool said:
.....easiest way is to unlock bootloader, flash twrp 3.0.2, flash xpower 3.0, and that's it. ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thanks.....that sounds straight forward.....but isn't TWRP a ROM? (sorry, the moment I hear flashing...I think ROM)
And I am looking up xpower...not sure what that is (yet) and why do I need it
I do want xposed framework though.
I wish there was a simple straightforward answer
rajdude said:
Ok thanks.....that sounds straight forward.....but isn't TWRP a ROM? (sorry, the moment I hear flashing...I think ROM)
And I am looking up xpower...not sure what that is (yet) and why do I need it
I do want xposed framework though.
I wish there was a simple straightforward answer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Twrp is your recovery,you flash through fastboot, xpower 3.0 is the ROM, just a pre-modded stock ROM with options of xperia x addons. Use lite and stock kernel for xpower and you'll be set.
still a little confused
civicsr2cool said:
Twrp is your recovery,you flash through fastboot, xpower 3.0 is the ROM, just a pre-modded stock ROM with options of xperia x addons. Use lite and stock kernel for xpower and you'll be set.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thanks! So my understanding (so far) is :
We "must" flash a ROM in order to root a phone. Did I get that correct?
Since I said I like the stock Sony ROM, you recommended the xpower 3.0 ROM.........but the point is.....I still have to flash ROM.
A little confused here...
I am a systems engineer (my day job). In Linux or Windows OS, if we want root access (to run some software or a low level command, like partitioning a disk etc), we either run SU command and put root's password OR right click and run as administrator......
We never have to install a brand new Operating System to get root access.
Just a total newbie question.....Why do we have do install a whole new OS (flash new ROM) on our Android phones to get root access?
rajdude said:
Ok thanks! So my understanding (so far) is :
We "must" flash a ROM in order to root a phone. Did I get that correct?
Since I said I like the stock Sony ROM, you recommended the xpower 3.0 ROM.........but the point is.....I still have to flash ROM.
A little confused here...
I am a systems engineer (my d Linux or Windows OS, if we want root access (to run some software or a low level command, like partitioning a disk etc), we either run SU command and put root's password OR right click and run as administrator......
We never have to install a brand new Operating System to get root access.
Just a total newbie question.....Why do we have do install a whole new OS (flash new ROM) on our Android phones to get root access?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is Linux, to gain root in the ROM you have on your phone currently all you need is an unlocked bootloader to run SU, but then you'll be left with a phone that still needs a customized kernel to keep root and a DRM fix for the camera. Xpower 3.0 is that package.
You could really benefit from reading more. Google up on dm-verity and Sony Ric, and fastboot/adb for a little better understanding of what you're getting into without a pre compiled ROM. Messing around with any Android you'll have the majority of the same steps, unlock bootloader with fastboot, flash Supersu, customized kernel.. Etc
Why use a stable compiled ROM?
Let me list down and explain to you why it's best to use a stable compiled ROM. But first you need to understand these few things before you decide to unlock your bootloader and root.
Before Sony Z models kicked in, every rooted Sony device are still able to retain all the features that came together with the phone before it was rooted. When Sony introduce the first Z model, they start to create these things called DRM keys. DRM keys are unique algorithm (i guess i should put it that way) which is attached to every phone the same way an IMEI number is attached to every phone. In short, my DRM keys cannot be used on your phone and vice versa.
DRM key: It's a unique algorithm that holds all the unique features that an unrooted Sony phone boast such as camera quality, X-reality, High Res Audio etc etc.
The moment you unlock your bootloader, that's the moment your DRM keys will be lost. But don't panic, the wonderful devs on XDA have prepared a tool to backup your TA partition (a partition that contains your DRM key) for your own convenience if you want to relock your bootloader.
Then recently Sony/Android come up with new features called Sony RIC and dm-verity. (You may Google what these are all about but to my understanding it is placing limitations to people who root their phones to meddle around with the system settings of thier phone)
With all these "hurdles", it have taken some time for devs here to find a work around and like every fairytale ending, they manage to find a way.
Now you're wondering if you can actually root without flashing another rom. Good news for you: you can! There's a guide that will teach you how to actually root and apply the work around after unlocking your bootloader and rooting.
.. But ask yourself what's the point of going through the hassle of rooting and your phone is not tweaked for performance or for theming purposes?
That's when people flash roms and in Z5 compact's case, XPower is the best rom there is. It gives you all the performance tweak you need to make your phone lag free, it has a lite version that removes all the unnecessary system apps you can't delete without root, it gives you an option to add themes and framework from Xperia X with all those work around in place.
For your second question: why is there a need to install TWRP?
TWRP is a recovery tool which is a need for all rooted phone. It's also a tool for you to backup and restore your current rom so that you can rollback to the last working configuration if your phone went into a bootloop etc. Plus i believe all these guides require you to actually use TWRP to flash the SuperSU to successfully root your phone.
I hope this explains your doubts.
Thanks a lot but...
firdyRAY, thanks a lot for the comprehensive reply to my questions. And yes, it has shed a LOT of light on my doubts.
I googled Sony RIC and dm-verity:
I could not get find much on ric
Dm-verity seems to me a way to check if the boot image has been modified from the last boot, and if it has, stop from booting. Sounds like a good idea until we understand that to flash a ROM dm-verity needs to be bypassed/turned off.
So to compile what I have understood so far:
By unlocking bootloader, you lose DRM keys. There is a way to backup DRM keys which are in the TA partition, but this is to be done BEFORE you unlock bootloader. Good that I have not done anything to my X5c yet.
The next steps for me would be to look into XPower 3 ROM…which I did and here is what I found out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z5-compact/development/rom-xpower-v1-0-aroma-debloat-custom-t3371100
First, what's up with the scary looking warning in RED right at the top of the first thread. I did read the OP and the second post, I did not see anything in there which IF I missed will cause my phone to explode! That is probably posted to make noobs read all instructions, right?
Second, I do not see any step in there to backup the DRM / TA partition. I guess the dev is assuming the phone already has lost the DRM, right? So I gotta find instructions on how to backup DRM / TA
Then I searched for problems in this ROM and seems to me that the fingerprint sensor is reported by many to be not working and/or buggy. I rely on the fingerprint sensor day and night. I have many apps which rely on that, like lastpass. That would be a major deal breaker for me.
So going back to stock ROM option…I remember you said "There's a guide that will teach you how to actually root and apply the work around after unlocking your bootloader and rooting."
Could you please post a link to that?
Thanks again!
I think this is a pretty great thread rajdude. It's getting people to spell out a lot of information to noobs like us that it seems most posters have taken for granted over time.
I'm a complete novice at all of this. Sort of gleaning information as I go along, but I used this guide: http://twigstechtips.blogspot.hk/2016/04/sony-z5-compact-root-without-losing-ta.html?m=0
Along with this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/guide-rooting-unlocking-bootloader-t3354307
The first guide is pretty basic step-by-step instructions. It unfortunately occasionally kind of skips over a couple very small things (that will be clear as you go along), or occasionally words things in such a way that might not be completely intuitive, but maybe that's cause I need things explained to me like I'm five sometimes. Any time I might have had a question about something in the the first guide, I went to the other and found the answer. It didn't take me long to get the gist of the whole thing though, and overall, it wasn't as scary as I thought it was going to be. It'd be fantastic if someone created a video walkthrough, but so far as I know, no one has done that yet.
The guide will help you back up your TA Partition where your DRM keys are stored, unlock your bootloader, root your device, and then restore your DRM keys. In order to do this you need to downgrade to Lollipop (if you're not already on it), and then upgrade back up to Marshmallow. It will also install TWRP (which I had no clue was installed until I went into "recovery mode" by pressing UP when I saw the LED flash yellow during boot). There may be an easier way to go about this whole process, but this is the process I used.
Before jumping into anything, I'd hold off until you heard more from firdyRAY or someone more experienced. They may look at the guide I linked and be horrified.
And yeah, I haven't installed xpower yet for the same reasons you haven't. Sounds like there's even an xpower 4.0 that was released recently, but still seems kinda buggy. Being rooted with stock I've been able to give Greenify access to root. Install Adaway (which was worth getting root to begin with). Install sound/music mods like DiVA-X, Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos. Install Titanium Backup. And make a few other minor tweaks (that I've since reversed). I still don't know much about custom ROMs and all that jazz, so I'm holding off until I get more understanding. I'd love to install the xpower ROM (when the bugs are worked out), and maybe some sort of sound ROM. I also need to get more understanding on some of the other vernacular like what exactly a "dirty flash" is.
rajdude said:
firdyRAY, thanks a lot for the comprehensive reply to my questions. And yes, it has shed a LOT of light on my doubts.
I googled Sony RIC and dm-verity:
I could not get find much on ric
Dm-verity seems to me a way to check if the boot image has been modified from the last boot, and if it has, stop from booting. Sounds like a good idea until we understand that to flash a ROM dm-verity needs to be bypassed/turned off.
So to compile what I have understood so far:
By unlocking bootloader, you lose DRM keys. There is a way to backup DRM keys which are in the TA partition, but this is to be done BEFORE you unlock bootloader. Good that I have not done anything to my X5c yet.
The next steps for me would be to look into XPower 3 ROM…which I did and here is what I found out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z5-compact/development/rom-xpower-v1-0-aroma-debloat-custom-t3371100
First, what's up with the scary looking warning in RED right at the top of the first thread. I did read the OP and the second post, I did not see anything in there which IF I missed will cause my phone to explode! That is probably posted to make noobs read all instructions, right?
Second, I do not see any step in there to backup the DRM / TA partition. I guess the dev is assuming the phone already has lost the DRM, right? So I gotta find instructions on how to backup DRM / TA
Then I searched for problems in this ROM and seems to me that the fingerprint sensor is reported by many to be not working and/or buggy. I rely on the fingerprint sensor day and night. I have many apps which rely on that, like lastpass. That would be a major deal breaker for me.
So going back to stock ROM option…I remember you said "There's a guide that will teach you how to actually root and apply the work around after unlocking your bootloader and rooting."
Could you please post a link to that?
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sony ric is a layer of security for sony roms so that they can protect nfc and fingerprint stuff. samsung and htc have there own variants as well.
yes lol the big red lettering is there to make you read, although hes not far off on the melting your phone part, the s810 is ridiculously hot.
the xpower thread doesnt not include the drm backup instructions because: 1) you need bootloader unlocked to flash it. and 2) because it includes the drm fix in it so you dont have to backup your ta keys.
the fingerprint sensor bug is on any bootloader unlocked phone, the hardware fails after x amount of hours and requires a reboot to work again. xpower is a stock rom, the only thing different is its pre-rooted, de-bloated, and deodexed for xposed to work. we have a separate thread for the fingerprint sensor bug and its been solved.
rajdude said:
firdyRAY, thanks a lot for the comprehensive reply to my questions. And yes, it has shed a LOT of light on my doubts.
I googled Sony RIC and dm-verity:
I could not get find much on ric
Dm-verity seems to me a way to check if the boot image has been modified from the last boot, and if it has, stop from booting. Sounds like a good idea until we understand that to flash a ROM dm-verity needs to be bypassed/turned off.
So to compile what I have understood so far:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony RIC main function is to disable /system write even you got root permission(you still able to do /system write but after a reboot will restore to original). There is a workaround but very trouble, TWRP recovery file manager can bypass Sony RIC(it works in the old day for me, not sure about now). BTW, all 3rd kernel should be disabled RIC nowadays. For any regular computer, there is no hardware or software lock to prevent you gain root access in linux but there are many such trouble stuffs in the android world... lol
I'm running XPower 3.0 Full as a daily driver since June and been very happy. Battery life, stability and speed is good.
Please note, that you MAY lose your warranty when you lose your DRM keys. That's why I didn't unlocked my phone before there was a way to backup TA partition. Now I'm after warranty repair, and before it I was able to fully restore stock ROM with DRM and all features fully functional. In my country, there is only one Sony approved repair center and they check DRM keys before repairing anything - even if it's mechanical fault.
When I had Z1c in KitKat days, it didn't had dm-verity and Sony RIC. It was possible to gain permanent root with bootloader locked, so I was happily using stock ROM and kernel. In Z5c case, first thing I tried was to do the same and it was possible (just backup TA, unlock bootloader, and flash TWRP with patched kernel (dm-verity and Sony RIC disabled) to begin with), but going XPower way was much more confident - I didn't had to think about removing every bloat app. I just flashed lite version in June and I'm using it till this day without any problems at all
Another thing is that you lose OTA (Over-The-Air Update) functionality when you unlock bootloader and disable Sony RIC and dm-verity. Updating to newer versions of firmware, even on stock ROM is problematic when you modify it.
michuroztocz said:
Another thing is that you lose OTA (Over-The-Air Update) functionality when you unlock bootloader and disable Sony RIC and dm-verity. Updating to newer versions of firmware, even on stock ROM is problematic when you modify it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's simply not possible. If you are rooted you can't apply OTA updates and neither should you.
flopower1996 said:
It's simply not possible. If you are rooted you can't apply OTA updates and neither should you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just what I wrote - just put it in another words