Related
Well I was just reading a thread about someone buying a Vibrant from someone who "found" it and this person was looking for a way to bypass WaveSecure.
We all know that with a little know how that it is possible with Recovery Mode.
The question I have is there a way to prevent even a Recovery Mode reflash? To absolutely stop someone from touching the ROM at all?
I know the Security Apps out right now can track you from GPS, wipe the phone remotely, etc... But can it stop someone from reflashing a ROM?
If there is a app out there like that please let me know, but if not, what would it take to create such a app.
What are YOUR thoughts??
What if this happens and then you brick for some reason need to reflash and it's locked. I would just bank on the fact that most people think that it's a "Droid" phone and don't know ****.
I was hoping for a question like that.
Either there is a security measure which at some point of using Recovery that it asks for a password or pin. Something that will allow you to access it securely and nobody else.
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids are out there now, are going to be out there, and with the new laws that allow you to unlock your device and pretty much do anything with it, more and more people are going to start playing around. Not only that, there is always somebody who knows someone, you know.
Personally myself, I would feel secure with having an implementation like this, everything else is pointless.
It's sort of like having a anti virus on your computer but not scanning for rootkits, only viruses.
The idea of that app sounds nice and all that but I seriously doubt that the average Android user would know about flashing ROMs and all that. But if it does get into the hands of somebody that does know how to do it then it can be a problem.
jzero88 said:
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids...
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Click to collapse
First of all these are android devices / android phones. I was mocking the people who call these phones "droid" phones.
Now on topic: All it takes to break this security is for one person to say, "I forgot my password on for the ==sUPERlOCKER== what do I do to get access?" Then all your worry is for nothing again.
What has been done can always be undone.
Sure, unlike me, I never forget my passwords. Especially for something this serious.
Second, of course something can be undo, but to what extent, after hearing your lack of concern makes me think you don't even have a lock on your phone
Again, would you rather have a password like "1234" that is easily guessed, or would you rather have something like "00LowJK54889$3%#". It's really a matter of personal security.
You sound like one of those people who would have Security Cameras, but never has the DVR on to record anything.
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
This should be in general and not development
Sent from my Vibrant using xda app
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, my idea is not bad, give it time, you will see.
Second, I do not have a counterpoint because my main point is stated in the first post. Read again.
Third, I don't care if you are relaxed about your security or not. This post obviously is not for you, another negative person who stunts development if they do not see a logical use for themselves.
I wish you the best and hope that you do not need to ever use such a tool or measure. Take it easy.
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the Vibrant forums? Haven't seen anything yet.
Also, I am not betting on a thief or someone who found the phone to be able to get to recovery, I'm worried about who these people might know. It's surprising to see how many people out here think that they are the only person in a 20 mile radius who knows how to do such mods... Maybe it's just the people I know but I know quite a few people who can easily google and find a way, easily.
I can bet that 90% of people here do not know anything except following directions, no pun intended to those who do. I definitely do not know half of what I should know, but again, is it really that hard?
Your own logic defeats what you are saying here. Don't you understand OP?
If there is a security measure, there will be a work around it? So why have more than ONE thing for the uneducated masses and stop there?
If the person who steals your phone knows someone who could get around WaveSecure, or any other security application. Then that same person can get around ANY AND ALL other types and forms of theft deterrent. If not, they will know someone, ask on forums, etc. UNTIL they gain access.
zaduma
Then why have any security on anything at all?
You my friend make no sense, good day!
jzero88 said:
Then why have any security on anything at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I will lay it out as simply as I can man. I do not want to argue, but you are missing why this is impossible to accomplish.
The existing security layers can be compromised by lets say... 10% of the population, seeing as most people who are thieves do not talk about it, most people dislike thieves.
So effectively 90% of people will be stopped dead in their tracks by having WaveSecure, etc.
The 10% who are not stopped however, can not be stopped by any means. None. They are the people who read these forums, have technical ability, etc.
Therefore having one layer of security means 90% of people are stopped from using your device. But it has ridiculously diminishing returns. With two layers, say stopping access to recovery, 10% are now stopped. Just boot into download mode and flash with odin. Stop download mode? First of all how? Second of all, there has to be a workaround for people who forget their passwords and stuff. And guess what, those 10% will know about that as well.
So please, address these issues and resolve them somehow, and your idea has merit. Without doing so you are wasting your time.
Also, much to your liking I will assume, I will no longer be posting in this thread due to your constant elevation of flaming.
Any security pro will tell you, if you have physical access to a computer, you can make it usable for you. The only real security you can hope for its to prevent access to your data by the thief. That's what full disk encryption and such is about. For our phones, we could achieve this much with a custom kernel perhaps, but how would you enter the password? No keyboard at that level.
The cellular providers can prevent the stolen phone from getting on their networks, and some do, but that's about as far as it goes.
Its like having a lock on your front door.. Its only going to keep out the honest people... Thats what they are made for, honest people, because dishonest people will just kick the door in.. And the good thieves can pick a dead bolt...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
If you build it they will hack it... Hands down... Look at the droid x, the unhackable phone, it took 5 weeks..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I agree, never did I not. This thread wasn't to debate whether a security measure could be hacked or not, the thread was created to see what we could do to implement such a measure.
I am totally aware of that. I know that if there is a will there is a way.
PERSONALLY, that is something I wouldn't mind having. Though some of you disagree and have a right to your own opinion, that is beyond the point. I am trying to see if a) is it possible. and b) what it would take to do so, and possibly c) if anyone was interested in trying or helping out.
So feel free to express your opinion. Mine is that you can never have enough protection cuz I would never bring a knife to a gun fight. But that's just me...
BTW, those who hacked the unhackable phone I would consider being part of the .01%.
jzero88 said:
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean people that know how things work, I suppose. It's the same problem as drm. When you understand why that's not possible, you will understand this. Read up on jtag as well, you can't protect against that. 90% is about as good as it gets.
Little bit of back story/lead up to my question. I'm a helpdesk geek for a company and all the technicians are getting ready to switch to a tablet device. I want to be able to (in windows speak here) make an image of one device and be able to flash it to all 65 of these things I'm getting (I'm assuming same device...but you never know). I'd like to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible.
My questions are...
1. If I want to do something like this am I going to have to root these?
2. What is a good program to make an "image" of these things? Should I image these things or try and create an SBF file and go that route?
3. Why didn't I ask for a raise when they told me I would be supporting so damn many new devices?
Thanx much
smohk said:
Little bit of back story/lead up to my question. I'm a helpdesk geek for a company and all the technicians are getting ready to switch to a tablet device. I want to be able to (in windows speak here) make an image of one device and be able to flash it to all 65 of these things I'm getting (I'm assuming same device...but you never know). I'd like to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible.
My questions are...
1. If I want to do something like this am I going to have to root these?
2. What is a good program to make an "image" of these things? Should I image these things or try and create an SBF file and go that route?
3. Why didn't I ask for a raise when they told me I would be supporting so damn many new devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4. Why do you call yourself a geek? Please tell me your not in the Best Buy Geek Squad?
Sorry if I sound like a ****, but don't call yourself a geek then ask for help to set up your IT department because you were stupid enough to tell the powers that be that you were a geek and could do it for them.
BTW........I know I am assuming a lot, but it's pretty easy to do so given your OP.
BTW#2.........65 devices is nothing. That's a weeks worth of work for one IT individual to set up and integrate into the infrastructure.
BTW#3..............Ask for a raise when you know what you are doing!
How do you expect to get the right answer to your questions if the thread is totally OFF-Topic? You should look for another place. Definitely not the right place
smohk said:
Little bit of back story/lead up to my question. I'm a helpdesk geek for a company and all the technicians are getting ready to switch to a tablet device. I want to be able to (in windows speak here) make an image of one device and be able to flash it to all 65 of these things I'm getting (I'm assuming same device...but you never know). I'd like to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible.
My questions are...
1. If I want to do something like this am I going to have to root these?
2. What is a good program to make an "image" of these things? Should I image these things or try and create an SBF file and go that route?
3. Why didn't I ask for a raise when they told me I would be supporting so damn many new devices?
Thanx much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a big question for the Atrix forums, you may have better luck getting an answer in the xda forums that aren't device specific (since the devices you will be receiving are unknown currently). Maybe here.? What is it exactly you want across devices? apps? roms? nandroid?
Good luck finding an answer! And hopefully you get your raise! When I am at work later I will be thinking about you and all those tablets your getting paid to play with.
I never told anyone I could do this. Boss came in to me and said this will be your project. Since I'm not sure of the devices, I'd figured I'd ask here first. As to the geek...force of habit (no, I don't work for Best Buy). Was just looking for a little advice on which way to proceed.
Well it wont work creating sbf files as you cannot sign them. Unless of course you ask motorola kindly for the private key
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
I'm gonna show this to ur boss tomorrow.Consider urself fired
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
You know who I am
When I assigned the project to you, I assumed you knew most of the stuff you were bragging daily. Oh boy, am I wrong.
I am also on this forum frequently. Looks like I know more about the stuff then you. I did think about a small raise and BTW it was approved. But now I am looking for ways to put the raise under my name.
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!
from a end users POV i mean?
why can't i get a new phone, install supersu from the play store, go to dev options or security, and enable root and point to supersu to handle it?
no security holes needed to get root and far less hassle for us end users to get to do what we want with our phones
is it just an attitude thing by google and the OEMs or a more technical thing?
well...what I can see is that the general public don't need or care for these functions. And they are quite good security locks. The ones who don't know what these functions are will not attempt to unlock the bootloader etc etc.
If for example these functions are visible in the settings menu and someone who just got their device scrolling the menus and finds this interesting button.
hmm..It says "root"? Beneath is another button says "unlock bootloader".
WOOW! Lets press the buttons and see what happens!!! :laugh::laugh:
And somehow the user bricked the device because the person didn't have any knowledge of what was going on.
There is probably more to it like warranty questions.
but it wouldn't be visible - like on this phone you had to know where to go to enable dev options so an average user wouldn't see it at all.
plus not all devices have locked bootloaders either. this is my 1st since the HTC desire.
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
LordManhattan said:
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree with the OP though. Because even Linux itself comes with su. Windows comes with Administrator mode. So it shouldn't be a problem to provide root into the system even though majority of people doesn't know what are they doing. If something goes wrong, just recommend them to flash again (in Windows term, format and fresh install) even then google already provides contact backup so it shouldn't take a long time. Unlocking the bootloader on the other hand..
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
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But if people really don't care, why Microsoft and Linux devs give such Administrator access to their 'Home edition' software? We bought the device and the ROM so why such restriction compared to a casual desktop solution? Following Google's logic to make it easy user friendly as it is, just put it in hidden place like developer option and boom problem solved. No casual user would ever know about tapping the Android build number continuously. Plus with a revised policy for warranty will be nice, for example, it will be void if you ever unlocked the bootloader of the device, because imho, that is the lifeline nowadays to guarantee that your device is still recoverable with some flashing. Casual super user activity shouldn't be closed completely i'd say (i.e Titanium backup anyone?).
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
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Yo_2T said:
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
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Yes it is more risky but as i said in my post, warranty void IF the bootloader (ie the BIOS in desktop terms) is unlocked because even if you mess up the phone, there's always PC Companion fresh install if you still have locked bootloader, just like Windows fresh install, so therefore, Root/Admin priv should not be cut off completely from the system.
LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
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maybe but the nexus is an extremely limited device and not something i'd ever consider without google making major changes.
i don't see how something like this would mess up the average user either. i mean if you have a hidden dev options menu you have to unhide, then you have to download supersu and then enable root in dev options.
if someone does all that then they know what they're getting into and must have read some guide to get there. no different to now really.
I think kit all depends on the people who set the first stone for these mobile operating systems. They obviously didn't think of them in the same sense as computer OS, so they just do things in certain ways. And I think from the way the market has evolved, Google hasn't found a reason to incorporate such features into Android because there's no real demand for it. You know how sometimes it doesn't take companies to do certain things, but they just don't do it. (like the freaking battery percentage on Android).
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Well, this is an attempt to possibly access more information. I may have read somewhere that stated in so many words, a little participation, or, even just an introduction, may get you a long way here on XDA. Now, whether or not there's any truth to this, isn't really of any importance. What's of importance, is how unimportant one may consider what someone else views as important. Setting that aside for a moment, what about the the truth that's actually quite commonly found leaving the liars mouth? I'll give examples in a moment but before I do, ask yourself if one were to actually tell the truth but believing it to be a lie, would what was said be considered by you, to be honest? I mean it is the truth, just delivered with dishonest intent, right? I am a newb, on an iphone 6+...iOS 11.2.5 just until I can put together the $100 deductible for the MOTO Z I dropped. I haven't been very active in these past years being with Verizon, but I wasn't very active before i made the switch. I was a DROID X2 bricker and I will always be. Just recently found a junkyard of old phones, that I or friends bricked, or dropped without insurance, cracked screen, no battery, etc.
What I am and have been working on, with no success is an On5 SM-G550T (A.R. MMB29K.G550TUVU2AQC4 samsung/on5ltetmo/on51tetmo) updated to 6.0.1/MMB29K/G550TUVU2AQC4
FRP and can't enable debugging with anything I have found thus far...I have used the enabler but may be flashing the wrong files as I have come across plenty G550TUVU1?????? but nothing found for G550TUVU2??????? I'm sure my recovery (TWRP) file is correct but until I can enable USB it's really not doing me any good. Any chance of someone(anyone that made it this far is respected!) possibly shootin me instructions or even just pointing me in the right direction. I have attempted flashing with odin and even OTG with other suggested files. Objective is to bypass frp by enabling debugging and flashing stock 5.0 firm so I may then install twrp and depending on my mood and position of the moon, maybe a super user and some ROM tryouts. You guys are awesome, even if you decide not to help. Developers, my thanks only goes so far and so do the rest of these words, so Ill be about it soon and wont talk about it now. But seriously, hat's off and I appreciate the countless hours, painful blinks and most importantly, the late arrivals and drop offs associated with such sacrifice. Thank you!!!