Hi there; Could do with some help please I seem to have a series issue with my Samsung Galaxy S2 today. It started this morning; I noticed the screen was randomly turning on; for no reason what so ever. It only does it when the phone isn't charging, if the data cable or the charger is plugged in; it doesn't do it.
Its on version KE7. I have tried a factory reset, and that hasn't sorted the issue. Therefore I seemed to think it was a hardware fault, however with it not being an issue when plugged in I wondered why it might be doing it.
Tap to speak also kept coming up for no apparent reason, I say kept coming up, doesn't happen all the time, but did come up about 6 times today, when I hadn't pressed anything, which would suggest the bottom centre button could be stuck or sticky, however that seems fine; and its not been near any moisture and has been a hot day.
The phone has not ever been rooted; so no issues there.
The phone battery dies very quickly within about 4 hours with the screen turning on all the time; and the phone will randomly freeze up completely, and I have to remove the battery to reset the phone.
Anybody got any ideas? Really could do with some help
Thanks
Rich
Update: It is plugged in charging now; and the MTP Application has come up; like the data cable is plugged in. That seems very odd to me...
Don't be afraid to send it back. These things aren't cheap even if you're paying through your contact, you're entitled to get what you paid for.
Your specific issues may be down to more than one thing. My screen lights up when I've read my gmail on a different device and it needs to clear the notification. Nothing too worrying about that. The other stuff does sound like some sort of shorting though and people have been given replacements for less serious issues.
I'm tempted to get mine swapped because the wifi often won't pick up an IP address and the gps won't get a fix if the phone gets too hot. Relatively minor compared to your issues.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Yeah I think its going to have to, I've tried playing about with settings, giving it time to cool down; pretty much everything I can think of, I really can't think what it could be, it seems to be many issues rather than just one, with it only being a month old, I expected slightly more.
Love the phone, did brilliantly yesterday; used it for lots of things; then today it just suddenly went, took it of charge, and it played up the whole way through.
Given up with it now, will take it back and see if I can get it fixed, I have 24 month warrenty with my contract.
Thanks
Put your original firmware back on if you can before attempting a warranty claim .
jje
Morning, gentlemen.
I'd like to give you a break down of the 44~ hours I've had this phone as of right now and the troubles I've had with it. I'll preface this post with the fact that I work a corporate IT job and even as I may believe everything posted to be correct, please correct me if I state anything incorrectly. Thanks
I received the HTC Rezound around 3PM EST on Friday. Out of the box, I was unable to active the phone. I was coming from a 3G Droid X via an alternate line upgrade, and I had played with the Droid Bionic and had some issues activating there. I'll chalk up activating issues to needing to activate the 4G SIM card over the phone because of it being a corporate account. After 25 minutes on the phone with our Verizon representative, we were successful in activating the phone. Immediately afterwords, the phone rebooted. I believe that it did because of the PRI programming, but I'm also not terribly familiar with the back-end of the 4G activation.
At 3:30 PM EST it was at 35% out of the box after activation. I figured that I'd let it drain entirely to zero out the battery and charge it to 100% later on that night. After getting home and around 7:30 PM, the phone battery gave up and shut down. I plugged in the phone (HTC charger, HTC cable, surge protected outlet) and at 9:00 stood in front of the phone watching it go from off, to the HTC white boot screen, to the unlock screen where it would be completely frozen, and approx. 30 seconds later, would loop that process again and again until I pulled the battery. I go to pick up the phone and it's very hot. Not uncomfortable just yet, but hotter than any phone since the droid 1 had gotten in my hand. Pulled the battery, let it cool down, and booted to the HTC recovery (power + vol. Down) and wiped the phone. After booting, the battery was only at 14%. Strange since it had been on the charger, but I supposed bootlooping might hinder the ability to charge. After verifying that it was not bootlooping any further and using my old fascinate charger (same voltage, same microUSB connector), I went to bed.
Saturday morning 8AM, the phone was bootlooping again. Pulled the battery, let it boot up afterwords after and it was at 100% battery. Strange. Fast forward to 5PM: Phone has rebooted twice throughout the day maybe around noon and 2PM, but no looping. Battery was at 50%, and at 5:15 PM it begins to bootloop again. Pull battery, turn it back on, battery is at 9%. I plug it into the HTC charger using the HTC cable again to a grounded power strip. Plug it in at 5:30 PM and walk away.
At 7PM, I go to pick up the phone and it's bootlooping again and it is so hot it's literally uncomfortable to hold for more than literally a couple seconds. Immediately unplug it from the cable and pull the battery, also very uncomfortable to hold. I decide that the HTC charger is having many problems, and put it away so I don't use it by accident. I've uploaded a video on my Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1661452940302) so that you can see what the screen was doing after it heated up that much. I didn't have any other problems with the phone after one FINAL reboot for last night.
This morning, I placed it on the charger: Same deal of massive overheating and the screen doubling. EDIT: I've also noticed that for the most part, it overheats if it charges past 50%
Simply put: This is a beautiful phone, a wonderful speakerphone, great at texting. But seriously: I haven't seen anything else like ANY of this online anywhere yet. Anyone else seeing issues like these?
Thanks.
Dan Manners
Nope.
Try pulling the battery and putting it back. Do not power up. Connect to charger and let it full charge. Disconnect charger and boot it
If it is super hot during any of that take it back.
DanManners said:
Morning, gentlemen.
I'd like to give you a break down of the 44~ hours I've had this phone as of right now and the troubles I've had with it. I'll preface this post with the fact that I work a corporate IT job and even as I may believe everything posted to be correct, please correct me if I state anything incorrectly. Thanks
I received the HTC Rezound around 3PM EST on Friday. Out of the box, I was unable to active the phone. I was coming from a 3G Droid X via an alternate line upgrade, and I had played with the Droid Bionic and had some issues activating there. I'll chalk up activating issues to needing to activate the 4G SIM card over the phone because of it being a corporate account. After 25 minutes on the phone with our Verizon representative, we were successful in activating the phone. Immediately afterwords, the phone rebooted. I believe that it did because of the PRI programming, but I'm also not terribly familiar with the back-end of the 4G activation.
At 3:30 PM EST it was at 35% out of the box after activation. I figured that I'd let it drain entirely to zero out the battery and charge it to 100% later on that night. After getting home and around 7:30 PM, the phone battery gave up and shut down. I plugged in the phone (HTC charger, HTC cable, surge protected outlet) and at 9:00 stood in front of the phone watching it go from off, to the HTC white boot screen, to the unlock screen where it would be completely frozen, and approx. 30 seconds later, would loop that process again and again until I pulled the battery. I go to pick up the phone and it's very hot. Not uncomfortable just yet, but hotter than any phone since the droid 1 had gotten in my hand. Pulled the battery, let it cool down, and booted to the HTC recovery (power + vol. Down) and wiped the phone. After booting, the battery was only at 14%. Strange since it had been on the charger, but I supposed bootlooping might hinder the ability to charge. After verifying that it was not bootlooping any further and using my old fascinate charger (same voltage, same microUSB connector), I went to bed.
Saturday morning 8AM, the phone was bootlooping again. Pulled the battery, let it boot up afterwords after and it was at 100% battery. Strange. Fast forward to 5PM: Phone has rebooted twice throughout the day maybe around noon and 2PM, but no looping. Battery was at 50%, and at 5:15 PM it begins to bootloop again. Pull battery, turn it back on, battery is at 9%. I plug it into the HTC charger using the HTC cable again to a grounded power strip. Plug it in at 5:30 PM and walk away.
At 7PM, I go to pick up the phone and it's bootlooping again and it is so hot it's literally uncomfortable to hold for more than literally a couple seconds. Immediately unplug it from the cable and pull the battery, also very uncomfortable to hold. I decide that the HTC charger is having many problems, and put it away so I don't use it by accident. I've uploaded a video on my Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1661452940302) so that you can see what the screen was doing after it heated up that much. I didn't have any other problems with the phone after one FINAL reboot for last night.
This morning, I placed it on the charger: Same deal of massive overheating and the screen doubling. EDIT: I've also noticed that for the most part, it overheats if it charges past 50%
Simply put: This is a beautiful phone, a wonderful speakerphone, great at texting. But seriously: I haven't seen anything else like ANY of this online anywhere yet. Anyone else seeing issues like these?
Thanks.
Dan Manners
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watched that video. I have NEVER seen anything like that and I have seen some weird stuff on my phone trying some weird modifications. (I have gotten massive screen tear and other stuff but that is due to the things I have done).
I would suggest returning the phone and getting a new one. I imagine that one is a lemon. You could try restoring the phone via the RUU in the shipped rom thread in the developement section but I think you should just return that one.
Unless you have messed with it aside from what you have told us (I doubt it though) I would return that one.
Easy
Return it.
My first Incredible did this, and my current incredible is doing this. Something in your phone is causing a thermal overload, which triggers a reboot, which gets only so far in the reboot until the thermal protection loads, it notices it is hot, and triggers a reboot [repeat].
In my case, the hardware radio (on both Dincs) was damaged/defective/finally gave way. 10 seconds on the internet will do this to me.
Return it. Do not diagnose it. Do not follow other peoples recommendations for testing. Return it. You must get rid of a phone like this.
Of course, this is one of my huge fears because I am leaving my Dinc for this phone; and now I am seeing that lemons are in this batch as well.
jdmba said:
Return it.
My first Incredible did this, and my current incredible is doing this. Something in your phone is causing a thermal overload, which triggers a reboot, which gets only so far in the reboot until the thermal protection loads, it notices it is hot, and triggers a reboot [repeat].
In my case, the hardware radio (on both Dincs) was damaged/defective/finally gave way. 10 seconds on the internet will do this to me.
Return it. Do not diagnose it. Do not follow other peoples recommendations for testing. Return it. You must get rid of a phone like this.
Of course, this is one of my huge fears because I am leaving my Dinc for this phone; and now I am seeing that lemons are in this batch as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely what I'm planning on doing. Debating on whether I want to hold of until tomorrow so I can show my boss though. I usually mess with my droid phones (Alternate roms, overclocking, undervolting, etc) and he always gets annoyed. For once, STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX it's acting like this. I suppose it's Karma
DanManners said:
Definitely what I'm planning on doing. Debating on whether I want to hold of until tomorrow so I can show my boss though. I usually mess with my droid phones (Alternate roms, overclocking, undervolting, etc) and he always gets annoyed. For once, STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX it's acting like this. I suppose it's Karma
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just show him that video haha. That convinced me immediately. If it is really getting that hot there is a real problem and I would be getting it out of my hands ASAP.
you either just got a faulty phone or a faulty battery. as the others are saying, return/exchange it.
I personally got a dead pixel and the touch screen is a tad off(I'll click on a link and it'll think I clicked on the link right above(or below).... not all the time though.
right now I'm just sitting in front of Verizon waiting for them to open.
Mine gets fairly warm, especially when working while being plugged.
My first phone had a problem with the bezel coming apart, but it also ran warmer then the second one I have, it was always warm in my pocket, the new one isn't.
If you guys use LTE OnOff you can turn off the antenna you don't need/use be it CDMA or LTE. It will run cooler and battery life will last longer.
AtLemacks said:
If you guys use LTE OnOff you can turn off the antenna you don't need/use be it CDMA or LTE. It will run cooler and battery life will last longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always leave it off, LTE really is overrated. A wonderful nicety, but I don't NEED it.
...
With total and complete respect for the immediately preceding couple of posters, I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH ... do not use tricks to cool your phone down.
You do not want to wind up on the other side of the 14 days with a phone which otherwise overheats from general use. DO NOT FOLLOW ADVICE SUCH AS TURNING OFF LTE.
Sure, if you have a working phone, and you think that will help your battery, then go for it. If you have thermal issues do NOT use bandaids.
(This has been a public service announcement).
LOL. I'm watching this very closely.
If the device isn't currently overheating turning LTE off isn't going to hurt it, lmao. They wouldn't bake in a feature that is going to make your phone melt down. Now, if you have problems CURRENTLY then you should warranty replace it. But 14 days doesn't have anything to do with it, you can call and warranty your phone anytime in the first year, 2 if you have the extended warranty. So it is NOT bad advice to turn it off if it is of no use to you. Don't scare people into killing their batteries just because they don't currently have an issue.
To the OP: I am currently on my SECOND DEFECTIVE Brand new Rezound.
The first one gave up on having any sort of vibrate function whatsoever (yes, the battery was pulled, factory reset, blah blah). Haptic feedback, softkey vibration, and all vibrations in general were completely dead. I took it back and got a brand new one since it's only 6 DAYS old. It only started having this problem this morning.
Got the new one at about 11AM today, and it starting having the power cycling issue that you're having about an hour ago. The phone is literally 7 HOURS old and wont stay on for more than 30 seconds before it reboots itself. I am VERY disappointed. Now I have to find the time to go in yet AGAIN to Verizon. I was on the phone with the tech and tried battery pulling it and factory data resetting it to no avail. It wouldn't even Factory Data Reset from HBOOT!
Sigh.
voxigenboy said:
you either just got a faulty phone or a faulty battery. as the others are saying, return/exchange it.
I personally got a dead pixel and the touch screen is a tad off(I'll click on a link and it'll think I clicked on the link right above(or below).... not all the time though.
right now I'm just sitting in front of Verizon waiting for them to open.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you go in and calibrate the keyboard if it's off?
OP
I think you should have added a "None of the above" as a selection for your poll. would have a lot more than 2 people.
My first phone and my second phone are set up the same, both factory reset both with LTE on and the second one makes little to no heat when idle, the first was warm all the time.
zeroxg4 said:
To the OP: I am currently on my SECOND DEFECTIVE Brand new Rezound.
The first one gave up on having any sort of vibrate function whatsoever (yes, the battery was pulled, factory reset, blah blah). Haptic feedback, softkey vibration, and all vibrations in general were completely dead. I took it back and got a brand new one since it's only 6 DAYS old. It only started having this problem this morning.
Got the new one at about 11AM today, and it starting having the power cycling issue that you're having about an hour ago. The phone is literally 7 HOURS old and wont stay on for more than 30 seconds before it reboots itself. I am VERY disappointed. Now I have to find the time to go in yet AGAIN to Verizon. I was on the phone with the tech and tried battery pulling it and factory data resetting it to no avail. It wouldn't even Factory Data Reset from HBOOT!
Sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried to go to Verizon today, but they refused to do anything since it's a corporate account and 48 hours old. I'm really up in the air about whether I'm going to stick with the Rezound or go back to the Droid X.
DanManners said:
I tried to go to Verizon today, but they refused to do anything since it's a corporate account and 48 hours old. I'm really up in the air about whether I'm going to stick with the Rezound or go back to the Droid X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's ridiculous. They had no issues whatsoever replacing mine (and the one I'm replacing tomorrow) because it's within the first 14 days of purchase. I guess it works differently for corporate accounts.
Honestly, though.. I can't imagine them saying anything other than "Sorry, we'll give you a new one". How can you be sold a product that is OBVIOUSLY defective (and certainly NOT cheap) and be told that there's nothing that can be done? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm actually pretty upset that I keep having to go get replacements, even though they're new. I've been looking forward to getting this phone for a while and actually would like it to work correctly. It's just disappointing to see that 2/2 have been defective so far. Hopefully it ends there.
zeroxg4 said:
Wow, that's ridiculous. They had no issues whatsoever replacing mine (and the one I'm replacing tomorrow) because it's within the first 14 days of purchase. I guess it works differently for corporate accounts.
Honestly, though.. I can't imagine them saying anything other than "Sorry, we'll give you a new one". How can you be sold a product that is OBVIOUSLY defective (and certainly NOT cheap) and be told that there's nothing that can be done? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm actually pretty upset that I keep having to go get replacements, even though they're new. I've been looking forward to getting this phone for a while and actually would like it to work correctly. It's just disappointing to see that 2/2 have been defective so far. Hopefully it ends there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Corporate allocation and stock is different than the consumer market.
so my amaze has been out of commission for a solid four months and i now have a nexus 5, but today i tried something. I originally thought my amaze's screen ribbon was messed up (it also has a missing contact in the headphone jack the left one to be exact, and both speakers are shot -prior to demolition-), but as it turns out there is actually a short somewhere in the circuitry. I took the liberty of completely tearing apart the phone (literally the plastic band around the glass is destroyed now). so after I have a pile of phone guts i start to put back together what I can. basically I had the screen, circuit boards, and battery sitting in it's shell. I also cleaned off a little corrosion on some of the parts too. then I plug it into my computer and bam the screen comes on! I almost had a heart attack, I honestly didn't expect that, and what is more interesting is that I was able to everything fine until it came time to flashing a ruu to get it back to stock, it wouldn't do it. but I kid you not, after multiple failed ruu flash attempts and a re-lock of the boot-loader I push the power button (more of a squishie than a button now) it started booting up CM10 like it was the day it died on me four months ago! Then when it finished booting up, the touch screen started freaking out and thought that I was touching it everywhere (i'm so glad I always turn on show touches in dev options) then it died again, I guess the short became active again, but here is the weird part, when I had it plugged into my pc and it started glitching I would unplug it and it shorted my pc and made it do a self-save power-out. I just thought i would share this with you guys to see if you have had any hardware probs out of you'r amazes.
I'm sure plenty of people have them.
Screen bleed is the most famous.
Randomly shutting off is common too.
HTC has crappy power buttons on a lot of devices.
I got bit by all 3 of those (but my power button wasn't quite dead yet) before I got bit by the bug that our flash chip has. I was trying to use my phone as a USB drive and copied a ton of stuff over, the progress bar stopped moving and the phone didn't seem to be running right, so I rebooted. Somehow it bricked and now the charging light wouldn't even come on. Started from the unbrick tricks, but I was way worse off than what they are for and near as I could tell something had disappeared really early on in the bootchain process and it was unfixable without direct access to the eMMC to rewrite the whole image.
Later found out once I got a pantech burst (which has very similar hardware) to replace my amaze that the MMC chip we have can get confused and randomly swaps blocks of storage around. It's easiest to trigger if you have lots of writes pending and the operating system tries to deallocate a block (like trim on a SSD); sometimes the chip will de-allocate the wrong block. Mine happened to garble something really close to the beginning resulting in my brick.
Much later I got a broken phone off ebay to rip apart to see if I could get the many gigs of data I MOVED to my phone immediately before it died only to find it just had a dead battery...maybe. It was well used, but didn't look physically damaged. It turned on but the screen was just static, like an analog tv with no channel. Couldn't get it working, but on other phones it looks like this is what happens when the chip in the LCD dies.
Combined the two broken phones to make a working one and find that this board has something going on where the battery drains when the phone is shut off, thus explaining why the battery that came with it was completely toast. Maybe I screwed up the rebuild, but I don't know how.
tl;dr: Yes, I have had some hardware problems.
Yeah I had that power button issue ( the problem is it splits apart and gets corrosion in it and its awfully wobbly) I had had that problem with my galaxy Nexus's volume rocker too (I had it for development) , i split it open and scraped off the corrosion and closed it back up it didn't come apart after that either it was fine. I also had the reboots , random extreme power drain from 100% - 30% - then dead in minutes ( it was a rare occurrence though), the LCD short, bad charger connection, and like 1/2 inch of the touch sensor didn't work( it was just at the tip of the twrp slider too so I had to use clockwork). You know its ironic looking back before I got it I was looking at reviews and they all said it had that "unmatched build quality" and it ended up being one of the most hardware plagued phones of its time, quality was a key factor when I chose it, though I did slightly overuse it, i think it shouldn't have been so badly designed, I only had mine for just over 1 year of my 2 year contract and I didn't even get it from the contract, I broke my T-Mobile g2x after 6 months with it and got the amaze through insurance [which was BS since i paid monthly for it, had to send my broken phone to them (which I could have fixed for less), and pay the difference between its price and the price of the amaze. I ended up paying full price for the amaze and the monthly insurance bill, I would have been better off not getting the insurance because it limited me to only getting the amaze and the sensation "phones of equal or lessee value" ($250 more than the g2x), they screwed me over]. Even though its in pieces and will most likely never work again I will probably hold onto it forever because it was a great phone, even if it let me down a few times. I learned around 90% of everything I know about android developing and software developing in general from that phone and its really sentimental to me. Lolz all my broken and worthless stuff is sentimental to me, I think I'm may be a little bit of a hoarder but oh well.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Uuhh this post was a mistake... My bad, I done messed up
Here are pictures from after I tore it apart to get it working and it booting up after it was dismembered (after it booted it was fine, It would pick up touch from the messed up side but at the same time it went crazy and picked up "touches" everywhere, even when I wasn't touching it so everything almost worked but then died again) sorry the last one blurred I was riding in a car
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Hi all,
Looking for a bit of advice as to whether there is any hope left for my poor S3.
Back in November I dropped it down the toilet (don't ask!). Although I was able to scoop it back out of the water, the damage was clearly done. I stupidly turned the phone back on pretty much immediately and the screen flickered and went dead. The phone seemed to be a goner.
Since then, I completely dismantled the phone and battery and placed them in a bag of rice in my airing cupboard at home. I've left it there for the past 5 months and now, when I take it out of the rice and put it all back together, then phone boots up (I managed to flash a official firmware image back from a slimrom I had on there successfully) and loads perfectly into android. I can then use the phone absolutely fine, open apps, play music, take photographs, for around 30-40 secs until the screen just stops responding completely! It is soooo frustrating. Once this happens, it can take some time to get the phone to reboot in the same way and allow me to use the screen, often booting up and being completely unresponsive.
When the screen stops responding, all the hardware buttons continue to function as expected and both of the buttons (back and menu, I think) either side of the home button continue to respond by giving haptic feedback and sounds.
This has been the case with the phone now for the past couple of months. Each time I try it, I just get frustrated and pull it apart again and put it back into the bag of rice in the cupboard. I have been reluctant to get rid of the phone (won't get much money for it as it is water damaged) in the hope that it will miraculously start working properly again. This doesn't look like it is going to happen and I am now thinking of getting rid of the phone for what little money I can get for it. It is in mint condition minus the screen not responding - I had only had it for 3 months when I dropped it!!
My question then is; is there anything else I can do or try to get the screen to continue responding for more than 30 secs after I reboot it? It just strikes me as odd (and incredibly annoying!) that the screen is obviously capable of working for a set duration but then consistently stops responding after a consistent amount of time. If it can work for 30 secs, why can't it continue to work!? Any ideas as to what might be causing it to lock up?
I'd be really grateful to hear any ideas or suggestions.
Thanks.
No, there is no miracle fix for water damage. Almost certainly the corrosion has caused an increase in resistance, hence why it works for a few seconds until it overheats. As the voltages are tiny even a slight change will break the screen.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
I thought as much.
Oh well it was worth asking.
Thanks for at least clearing up why it is probably working for a short time.
So first, two things:
1. I went through the hell that is Samsung IM support and finally convinced her to give me a phone number and case number to someone higher up. They want me to send the phone in, saying I may be billed for any repairs due to physical damage. I'm fearful of going this route, because I don't have any guarantee they won't try to cop me of my money by claiming my issues were caused by neglect.
2. This is my second replacement. This is now my second time going through these issues(except the camera noise, more on that later), and I'm extremely hesitant to get another Note 3.
1st phone was stock (restart issues), then rooted w/ PACROM (Issues got worse)
2nd phone is stock (used to be fine, then it's now to the point where it's a dud)
So I have two issues:
1. Any time my phone is set down on anything besides a bed of cotton spun by the hands of virgin maids, put in my pocket, dropped from a height greater than half an inch, lightly tapped on the back plate, etc., it'll restart. Sometimes it shuts itself off, sometimes it'll boot just fine. I'm 100% confident it's from physically moving the device, and isn't caused by a software issue.
2. Whenever I launch my camera or torch, no matter the app, i'll get this high-pitched (but extremely noisy) "errrrr" noise for approx. 10 seconds. Focusing the camera makes it stop, or sometimes it'll fix itself after a few seconds. But for the torch, it's always present.
So my course of action is to contact the Samsung tech and tell him my issues. Has anyone experienced any of these errors? A quick google search only yeilds 1 result, but everyone downplayed his issue.
Oh, and P.S. Tape over the battery does not help. Swapping batteries does not help. Swapping backplates (both samsung) does not help!