Related
Need to take my Atrix in for warranty purpose. A few methods have been discussed and I'm looking for the safest means possible. Any opinion's on this? I leaning towards the SBF method using Moto's stock 2.3.4 via RSD Lite.
Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.. You seen all the warnings saying your void if you unlock right? Here is another thread about "relocking" (hiding "unlocked" is not relocking btw, relocking is impossible.) also there are many threads on this topic, feel free to search.
WiredPirate said:
Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.. You seen all the warnings saying your void if you unlock right? Here is another thread about "relocking" (hiding "unlocked" is not relocking btw, relocking is impossible.) also there are many threads on this topic, feel free to search.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
Please don't take this the wrong way but the dev community is actively trying to get all manufacturers to allow for unlocked bootloaders and one of the main things most of us are willing to forfeit is our warranties so when someone decides to voluntarily do something that is known to void the warranty and then try to trick the manufacturer into fixing their phone under said warranty it hurts our argument. We all made the choice when we unlocked our phones so it is only fair that we take responsibility for our decisions.
Hopefully, in the future we can come to an agreement with manufacturers that there is an "opt-in" option for unlocking our phones and as long as we stay within the confines of the agreement then we can still have the option to have the phone serviced for physical defects.
kyleallen5000 said:
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
live4nyy said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but the dev community is actively trying to get all manufacturers to allow for unlocked bootloaders and one of the main things most of us are willing to forfeit is our warranties so when someone decides to voluntarily do something that is known to void the warranty and then try to trick the manufacturer into fixing their phone under said warranty it hurts our argument. We all made the choice when we unlocked our phones so it is only fair that we take responsibility for our decisions.
Hopefully, in the future we can come to an agreement with manufacturers that there is an "opt-in" option for unlocking our phones and as long as we stay within the confines of the agreement then we can still have the option to have the phone serviced for physical defects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to have to second this. as much as i dislike the "unlocked" at the top of my screen i made this choice. little did i know that it would actually say this when done:-( however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
SErooted said:
I'm going to have to second this. as much as i dislike the "unlocked" at the top of my screen i made this choice. little did i know that it would actually say this when done:-( however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It actual says may void warranty. I think until there is some agreement made, we don't have any rules regarding this. I mean unlocking the bootloader doesn't make some of the defects happen. As an American with consumer rights, I will hold them responsible, but only if not directly from my mingling. Also I have read that moto has fixed phones with unlocked bootloaders.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Sass86 said:
It actual says may void warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
"May" is not synonymous with "will." People continue to misinterpret those terms.
If unlocking the BL absolutely voided your warranty, they would have indicated as such with a term that meant "will."
I stand corrected. The point is valid.... "may" and "will" are different words and meanings.
However most times when the statement made by a corporation that includes "may" or "might" means you are out of luck.
Not to argue, because I do agree with you but in legal terms the word "may" does not mean the same thing as the normal definition.
may v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall" which makes it imperative. 2) in statutes, and sometimes in contracts, the word "may" must be read in context to determine if it means an act is optional or mandatory, for it may be an imperative. The same careful analysis must be made of the word "shall." Non-lawyers tend to see the word "may" and think they have a choice or are excused from complying with some statutory provision or regulation.
The underlined part highlights how they would see it as it implies you are making the choice to void your warranty.
Now, this is how I see it because I tend to think most definitions regarding legal terms is in place to protect companies and not consumers so if someone could elaborate and prove me wrong, I invite it with open mind.
magecca said:
+1
"May" is not synonymous with "will." People continue to misinterpret those terms.
If unlocking the BL absolutely voided your warranty, they would have indicated as such with a term that meant "will."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kyleallen5000 said:
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, you read all my other posts about this in the past 30 minute and still dont understand you voided your warrenty DA!? I dont care if you do or dont get service for your voided phone, and Im not gonna argue about the word may. I dont care. What i do care about is checking XDA without seeing the same GD threads over and Fing over again because DAs like you refuse to use the Fing search button. SMC.
lol funny arguments gotta love em. For one hiding the Unlock really doesn't matter considering I have returned one Atrix to where I bought it and they didn't care. Secondly Motorola has the "Choice" to deny you warranty repairs but they MAY accept the warranty repair and third they could always, if the phone was returned, reflash the bootloader to Lock it again. Plan and simple easy answer is it is ultimately up to Motorola if they want to repair it or not once it is unlocked.
I'm not talking about personal experience, it's about assuming responsibility for your actions. My whole point is accountability, there are people all the time trying to take advantage of the system and end up ruining it for everyone else. Society is fostering an entire generation of vain and spoiled derelicts.
You are right though, it could all come down to who you run into while trying to have your phone repaired.
malickie said:
lol funny arguments gotta love em. For one hiding the Unlock really doesn't matter considering I have returned one Atrix to where I bought it and they didn't care. Secondly Motorola has the "Choice" to deny you warranty repairs but they MAY accept the warranty repair and third they could always, if the phone was returned, reflash the bootloader to Lock it again. Plan and simple easy answer is it is ultimately up to Motorola if they want to repair it or not once it is unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
live4nyy said:
I'm not talking about personal experience, it's about assuming responsibility for your actions. My whole point is accountability, there are people all the time trying to take advantage of the system and end up ruining it for everyone else. Society is fostering an entire generation of vain and spoiled derelicts.
You are right though, it could all come down to who you run into while trying to have your phone repaired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True more or less. Society is propagating the problem but it really starts with the way the government is running things as a whole. Not saying it's right but until something changes in society and the government it's just all down hill. Also if you look deeper banks have a Major role as well. Anyway enough on off topic issue's there yea I do believe it is ultimately up to Motorola whether they will repair the device or not. I would assume they would probably deny the repair if it had something to do with the actual Software of the phone considering you messed with it, hardware probably different considering software usually doesn't blow up hardware.
Thread about how to return phone after voiding warranty, contents:
some name calling, discussion about morality, the meaning of the word "may", society, laws, government, companies
to TS,
try 'accidentally' sinking your Atrix in the ocean for a minute, and then claim your warranty?
or try 2 cover it with your thumb while booting?
to others,
help TS, (like me?), don't condemn everything about what he had done in the past.
maybe, he's your friend next door, a helping hand's neighbor?
SErooted said:
however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
malickie said:
True more or less. Society is propagating the problem but it really starts with the way the government is running things as a whole. Not saying it's right but until something changes in society and the government it's just all down hill. Also if you look deeper banks have a Major role as well. Anyway enough on off topic issue's there yea I do believe it is ultimately up to Motorola whether they will repair the device or not. I would assume they would probably deny the repair if it had something to do with the actual Software of the phone considering you messed with it, hardware probably different considering software usually doesn't blow up hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see an agreement put in place that allows us to have "hardware" still under warranty regardless of "software".
---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 AM ----------
palmboy5 said:
Thread about how to return phone after voiding warranty, contents:
some name calling, discussion about morality, the meaning of the word "may", society, laws, government, companies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, how could we have messed up so bad? We forgot to talk about Lindsay Lohan!
---------- Post added at 07:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 AM ----------
baddiejang said:
to TS,
try 'accidentally' sinking your Atrix in the ocean for a minute, and then claim your warranty?
or try 2 cover it with your thumb while booting?
to others,
help TS, (like me?), don't condemn everything about what he had done in the past.
maybe, he's your friend next door, a helping hand's neighbor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@WiredPirate has already provided a link but I guess I can be pro-active and actually USE the "search" feature.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1201105
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1261413
There are more discussions as well.
---------- Post added at 07:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 AM ----------
CaelanT said:
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right about Motorola should not reject people for warranty repairs, they still have a lot of work to do in rebuilding customer relations and their public image.
I would not care at all about people using their warranties if they just did it but I don't like all the threads discussing how to "dupe" Motorola because they made a conscious decision to unlock their bootloader knowing it "may" void their warranty. And don't get me wrong, I'm not siding with Motorola on the issue, I just believe people should fully understand the implications of their choices and until there is a set agreement on the issue then people should just accept the outcomes.
Also, people should continue to actively pursue getting these policies overturned by companies like Motorola and AT&T. The community has made great strides over the past year and we need to keep pushing.
I really wish people would search instead of crearing another thread on the same thing. People need to be coddled and what better way to start an argument/pity party by starting another thread without using search.
I voided my warranty and your mum.
If you're on Gingerbread, or have atleast updated to it, you can flash the stock gingerbread .sbf and it won't brick your phone. Just don't flash any other kind of .sbf , you can't go back to any other version. When you flash that with RSDlite, it'll take you back to stock and wipe the "unlocked" logo off your screen. It will still BE unlocked, it just won't say it.
CaelanT said:
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me rephrase,
I have noticed people in the Atrix community, are not as well versed in being civil with each other, as members in my other device forums are. Point is. everywhere you read, when it comes to rooting, unlocking, there is a "chance" of the statement "may" void warranty. (don't act like you are dislexic or in a special ed class and cant read or never learned how to) Maybe go read again where these statements are at when you read the thread.
Also to install a rom, you need to be rooted, and in some cases like this device, you need to have unlocked bootloader and cwm or a recovery installed to flash the rom to your device.
Which yet again brings up the point you have to go to a forum, locate a thread, read the info, and most of them always say, there is a chance at "may void warranty" and not responsible if you brick your device, kick your cat, crash your car,pull your hair, beat the sh** out of your wife, murder your neighbor, or somehow end up having to dive to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve your dog.
I'm not a programmer. Actually starting school for programming in a month, but what makes it hard for Devs to unlock them selves?
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium
128-bit encryption key
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
fuzzer said:
yup, by now the devs would probably have custom roms fixing all the issues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1(0 char)
fuzzer said:
128-bit encryption key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
Paris6906 said:
this means there are 128 ^2 possible combinations to test before finding the one for your device. This amount of tries would take years to brute force (trying every single one till you found it) even on today's most powerful super computers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So close. It's actually 2^128. That's two to the power of one-hundred twenty eight.
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
hashish16 said:
Question, when you unlock the bootloader your warranty becomes void. Will there be a way to re-lock for warranty purposes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no one is really going to know how it all works for asus until asus releases their tool with the specifics on everything.
but as far as the law goes, if whatever you need warranty work for has nothing to do with you loading custom roms or messing with the kernel etc, you should have no problem sending it in for warranted repairs.
ie, the power button is broken or the screen dies
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Evo_Shift said:
Which is quite interesting. I am guessing they did it to prevent people from bricking their systems and returning them when in fact they are probably getting more returns now than they would have had the bootloader not been encrypted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC Asus did explicitly say that it was nVidia forcing them to lock the bootloader on the Prime. This could of course be BS, but after such a public statement saying this, nVidia would have gone apesh*t if it was not the truth.
It's all to do with the Tegra3 and the Prime being basically a prototype released only for mass beta testing. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Still love my Prime though.
tylermaciaszek said:
Rooting can become illegal soon
But once your unlocked warranty void forever because they track serial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have to be! It is not a bill, but an exemption to the DMCA. If we can show our support by contacting the Copyright office and showing them that jailbreaking/rooting is beneficial, they can extend the exemption. The EFF has more info on how to contact the Copyright office and how to request that other electronics be included (did you know that tablets are NOT covered in the exemption?) like consoles, tablets, and more.
https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices
XDA has 337,000 active members. This effects all of us. Let them know it should not be illegal to use your electronics however you wish!
It does not affect ALL of us by any means, however, I have already shown my support by donating to the EFF. It's disgusting that a device that you have paid your hard earned cash for can be ruled over with an iron fist as though you are simply renting it for the duration of it's life....
.... Oh that business model sounds familiar.
Doktaphex said:
It does not affect ALL of us by any means...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
silentheero said:
I assume that if you are on here, you are either a dev or get support from a dev. In either case, making rooting illegal again would give manufacturers cause to turn a deaf ear to us, making it more difficult to impossible to work with these devices and in turn help others. Even if you have never rooted a phone or even heard of jailbreaking, you would still (indirectly, yes) be affected, since fewer will want to put themselves in that position.
Devs will usually find a way around these locks, but the level of support will not be there as they will think twice about breaking the law (in the US at least).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
Doktaphex said:
I concede, you make a very good point. I was referring to the fact that I am in the UK and therefore it does not DIRECTLY affect me, but again, you ARE right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for supporting the EFF! All I can do at the moment is to support by getting people motivated.
monkey10120 said:
I read that is what apple is doing and they are close to passing the bill. Its ridiculous, rooting is not all about pirating, its mostly for performance.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting can be considered as illegal as it uses hacking methods, and so break the software that belongs to the company made the device, even if the software is in majority open source, there are always closed parts that are concern by trading laws.
And be precise please, the'illegal' rooting stuff is ONLY concerning USA.
Plenty of places with some very smart devs where rooting will never become illegal. Russia as an example, or China (where the exemption would only apply to US built product). If some countries want to kill off their engineering and software development communities, plenty of other places in the world will be only too happy to step in and take over.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, android is open source. So then there's no copyright infringement unless you hack the apps or something. IOS on the other hand isn't open source so jailbreaking it could be seen as infringing. But I still disagree that rooting/ jailbreaking should be illegal.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
So I found myself looking around at different smartphone related articles like I always do when I stumbled across one in particular that had me scared! The article was talking about Samsung and Google bringing Knox to android L. We all know how much of a problem Knox has been to us here at the dev community.
Anyways have a look for yourself here
skeezer308 said:
So I found myself looking around at different smartphone related articles like I always do when I stumbled across one in particular that had me scared! The article was talking about Samsung and Google bringing Knox to android L. We all know how much of a problem Knox has been to us here at the dev community.
Anyways have a look for yourself here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to break it to you, but knox or no knox it will likely be a step up in security.
Why wouldn't it be?
Call it what ever you want, just make sure you start shopping for a dev edition.
Yes this was reported when they released the L preview because it's the first time they've included Samsung code into AOSP.
Every release of android will be a step up in security, I'm just going to move on from Verizon if it gets to the point where no boot loader can be unlocked.
joshm.1219 said:
Yes this was reported when they released the L preview because it's the first time they've included Samsung code into AOSP.
Every release of android will be a step up in security, I'm just going to move on from Verizon if it gets to the point where no boot loader can be unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bottom line is that flexibility and customization will always interfere with security and both, fortunately and unfortunately, the latter is one that is of major concern to corporations.
Some of the arguments and measures are over the top but for the most part it part of technology maturing. Rooting a phone for most people here is harmless and enables a purpose, but it also opens the door to circumvent security and encrypted materials from our devices.
It seems Samsung and Verizon are open to creating a "developer" version to allow for justified valid reasons to root and customize, but the more personal and business purposes merge the more security becomes more important over flexibility.
I am not saying this makes it good or that you should like it. But it something that inevitably will continue to progress making it more difficult for complete control of your device.
Capitalism is based on profitability and adoption and if you get large corporation to endorse you methods then you have a huge revenue channel, right, wrong or indifferent.
Hopefully an innovation will come along that will enable the right balance, but only time will tell.
Personally I have recently decided to join BYOD at my work and consequently had to unroot my device, and I have to admit that I miss some aspects, but not enough to give up the convenience of having all I need in ONE device.
Just my $0.02
Well the part that had me concerned was knowing how locked down Samsung devices have become, especially on Verizon and ATT networks. I may be wrong but I think part of the reason we still haven't been able to find an exploit to unlock the bootloader is because of the tightening grips of Knox. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there is a need for security, especially in business with BYOD. I was half scared they were attempting to lock down android to that extent as a whole. As I read further into the article I had learned that some of the Knox feature I was fearing wear hard ware implemented. I think this part from the article pretty much sums it up.
"Even though Samsung is sharing many of the Knox functions with Google on Android L, they will still offer a superior security solution on Samsung devices. This is due to several features requiring deep hardware integration that can only be managed directly by Samsung. As listed on the Samsung Knox blog, the following will remain specific to Samsung:
TrustZone-based Integrity Measurement Architecture (TIMA)
Real-time Kernel Protection
Client Certificate Management (CCM)
Trusted Boot-based Key store
Remote attestation
Trusted Boot
Biometric authentication
KNOX Smart Card Support"
skeezer308 said:
Well the part that had me concerned was knowing how locked down Samsung devices have become, especially on Verizon and ATT networks. I may be wrong but I think part of the reason we still haven't been able to find an exploit to unlock the bootloader is because of the tightening grips of Knox. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there is a need for security, especially in business with BYOD. I was half scared they were attempting to lock down android to that extent as a whole. As I read further into the article I had learned that some of the Knox feature I was fearing wear hard ware implemented. I think this part from the article pretty much sums it up.
"Even though Samsung is sharing many of the Knox functions with Google on Android L, they will still offer a superior security solution on Samsung devices. This is due to several features requiring deep hardware integration that can only be managed directly by Samsung. As listed on the Samsung Knox blog, the following will remain specific to Samsung:
TrustZone-based Integrity Measurement Architecture (TIMA)
Real-time Kernel Protection
Client Certificate Management (CCM)
Trusted Boot-based Key store
Remote attestation
Trusted Boot
Biometric authentication
KNOX Smart Card Support"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a BIG difference between locked bootloaders and Knox...the bootloader is a proprietary part of the firmware, not the OS...Knox is integrated in the OS....neither have anything to do with the other. Please venture into the T-Mobile, Sprint and International S4 forums to see the effects of Knox. If you do not want a locked bootloader switch to a carrier that does not do it or phones that do not have it. I understand Verizon has even blocked the use of HTCDev on their newer HTC devices and updates. These carriers locking the bootloaders do so to have the most secure phones and be able to go after the military and commercial contracts. So again, do not think Knox has anything to do with the lock down of AT&T and Verizon....that is all between the carrier and Samsung.
m3Jorge said:
The bottom line is that flexibility and customization will always interfere with security and both, fortunately and unfortunately, the latter is one that is of major concern to corporations.
Some of the arguments and measures are over the top but for the most part it part of technology maturing. Rooting a phone for most people here is harmless and enables a purpose, but it also opens the door to circumvent security and encrypted materials from our devices.
It seems Samsung and Verizon are open to creating a "developer" version to allow for justified valid reasons to root and customize, but the more personal and business purposes merge the more security becomes more important over flexibility.
I am not saying this makes it good or that you should like it. But it something that inevitably will continue to progress making it more difficult for complete control of your device.
Capitalism is based on profitability and adoption and if you get large corporation to endorse you methods then you have a huge revenue channel, right, wrong or indifferent.
Hopefully an innovation will come along that will enable the right balance, but only time will tell.
Personally I have recently decided to join BYOD at my work and consequently had to unroot my device, and I have to admit that I miss some aspects, but not enough to give up the convenience of having all I need in ONE device.
Just my $0.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know, I don't understand how it would affect anything if they let a user decide if they wanted their bootloader unlocked for every device.
joshm.1219 said:
I don't know, I don't understand how it would affect anything if they let a user decide if they wanted their bootloader unlocked for every device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the users are not always the owners. My work phone is an Apple 5s. But "My" is not really accurate. It's my employer's phone that they give to me to use for work purposes. So I'm the user, but if the owner wants it locked down, that's their prerogative.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
brizey said:
Because the users are not always the owners. My work phone is an Apple 5s. But "My" is not really accurate. It's my employer's phone that they give to me to use for work purposes. So I'm the user, but if the owner wants it locked down, that's their prerogative.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So require owner account access then
I personally think if they did include knox in android L there would still be an option to use fastboot to unlock the device.
xXsquirr3lsXx said:
I personally think if they did include knox in android L there would still be an option to use fastboot to unlock the device.
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This would be correct. Please see OP linked articled to see what is is actually being implemented here.
An executive order has been signed by Trump banning Huawei in the US...
Also Qualcomm (QCOM) may have to apply for US export licenses to continue supplying technology to Huawei.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/15/tech/trump-executive-order-telecom-security/index.html
Why worry about Huawei when Google, facebook and the countries intelligence are already spying.
I think the problem lies with 5G, Huawei are trying the set up the infrastructure for 5G across Asia, Europe and the US amongst over areas. Which means that they'll have a back door to almost everything connected to 5G.
5G will connect to everything, even LED lights in your home which basically gives them a 3D view of every area 5G covers. Whoever has access to it will know where you are nearly all the time.
The timing makes it obvious the steps against Huawei is derivative of the US trade war with China rather than concerns over spying.
warea said:
The timing makes it obvious the steps against Huawei is derivative of the US trade war with China rather than concerns over spying.
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I wonder if it makes sense to care about that. Huawei prices are dropping and people try to sell there used phones. A good moment to buy something like that.
Am I totally wrong in thinking that Trump will probably not stop xda developers from developing updates for Huawei phones? If so I do not care about Huaweis updates or wether they include Gapps
But sadly XDA is not able to develop updates for Huawei beacause of locked bootloader etc, so what you are trying to say is......?
EnormoDerClown said:
But sadly XDA is not able to develop updates for Huawei beacause of locked bootloader etc, so what you are trying to say is......?
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I do not own a huawei phone (yet) and am still investigating about existing roms. Is there really no easy way to unlock bootloader for huawei devices in general? That would definitely stop me from buying huawei.
BTW: of you quote me I see your post faster
daniu said:
I do not own a huawei phone (yet) and am still investigating about existing roms. Is there really no easy way to unlock bootloader for huawei devices in general? That would definitely stop me from buying huawei.
BTW: of you quote me I see your post faster
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No there is no easy way, even no way at all at the moment.
I am quite relaxed at the moment, for existing phones there will still be support, future phones could be a HUGE problem. But to be honest, A LOT switch their phones after 2 years or even before, so most people will not be touched by this ban who are currently owning this awesome phone.
I don't think Huawei spies. Even if they did, are they the only big players who do it?
US already spies on their citizens and on the world - Edward Snowden told the world and now he's not allowed back into his country. Facebook also sells your data if you remember that Cambridge Analytica drama.
Do people just forget what's happened?
Agree, i am total sure that Apple has a file with my data and i didn´t even touched an apple device in my life
that doesn´t make spying good, but i also think huawei is not doing more/less than the rest
EnormoDerClown said:
No there is no easy way, even no way at all at the moment.
I am quite relaxed at the moment, for existing phones there will still be support, future phones could be a HUGE problem. But to be honest, A LOT switch their phones after 2 years or even before, so most people will not be touched by this ban who are currently owning this awesome phone.
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this is not my attitude towards phones. Mine is rather: use the device until warranty is over (or a bit earlier) then root and install a custom rom and use the phone until it is really dead. Unfortunately it seems like that did not take too long on my Asus Zenfone selfie ...
I also use phones quite long, but really a lot people get a new one every year or every two years by contract. The same people which are now selling their phones because of panic^^
if you plan on using custom rom/modification huawei is not suitable for you, it is just not possible. maybe the android ban will change something, but nobody can say that, you will have to wait to see what will happen.
Since no one else has said it on this thread let me be the first, Trump is an idiot, when he's gone the whole world will be better for it. He can't even honor D-day survivors without making it all about him, the ultimate draft dodger.
I've noticed bricks are pretty common around here and it got me wondering: why is this even possible? It seems there are many solutions that Xiaomi could implement to prevent this situation entirely. Which makes me wonder: why haven't they?
I've not had a brick myself - but more so empathize with the situation.
I realize giving access to EDL mode for all end-users would probably create a vulnerability to the phone and that's why Xiaomi have probably locked it off - but they should have implemented a means to restore the phone from odd states. The answer is not to stop bootloader unlocks; that goes against Xiaomi's ethos.
The solution seems:
a) Redesign existing software to recognize a region-locked device in a mismatched state and securely provide a one-way stock flash and lock through use of server-side communication. Surely if a device is recognized sufficiently there must be a way of resuscitating it without blowing security wide open.
b) Redesign future hardware to include hard-coded and encrypted identifiers such as device serials on a separate read-only chip as to provide a verifiable, secure means of authorizing a flash reset and low-level flash back from any state. A simple jumper similar to the SIM eject but neatly hidden in the SIM slot would provide an accessible trip for consumers. Proper use of encryption and checksums with a Xiaomi server would stop consumers doing whatever they want to do at a low-level EDL mode.
Either way, I think there should be a restore tool capable of doing something. It would decrease Xiaomi's support burdens and stop consumers needing to crack open expensive devices; most likely with damage in the process.
I'd be happy for Xiaomi to be gatekeepers if there's no secure way of doing it. If a consumer can verify evidence of the phone, receipt and situation - surely it's better, cheaper (and friendly to environment) to fix that situation via remote auth than go the route of a repair center? Assuming Xiaomi repair unlocked bricks - if they don't that's potentially a lot of grossly unnecessary e-waste if a consumer can't fix it themselves.
I just find it comparable to installing Windows but your whole PC becomes junk because you installed the Chinese version (which is unheard of). I know on phones however it's essentially the equivalent of tampering with a motherboard BIOS - but most end-users are mostly interested in ROMs, ergo the OS - so it's still comparable to the prior analogy.
It is a real risky thing these days to unlock phones. I wish if phone companies were good and gave us timely security and OS updates, nobody would actually have to unlock their phones. But sadly it's not the case. They are greedy and want people to buy new phones every year. Planned obsolescence or whatever it is called.
Bricking your phone is not Xiaomi's fault but the user's who deliberately unlock their device and do not know what he/she is doing without starting at first to read A LOT what unlocking and flashing stock/custom roms and/or kernels means and what the precautions are regarding partitions and encryption etc..
I was 13 years very active in the custom world of HTC and what happened there many years ago I see now happening with users here.
Many users with no experience with this matter just start flashing without knowing what they are doing because the amount of good Xiaomi smartphones has increased immense and with the tools that are now available (Xiaomi flash tools for example) there is no knowledge about ADB etc. necessary and then many people just start flashing without knowing what they exactly are doing.
It is that users own fault when they brick their phone and for those users is a blocked bootloader useful so they can't do any harm then.
Then asking Xiaomi to protect the firmware and Rom for that kind of users is the wrong way around because that kind of users must keep their bootloader locked.
That is the protection that Xiaomi and other brands provide stock and when you deliberately without enough knowledge unlock your bootloader and start flashing whatever rom/kernel is asking for problems.
So do not blame Xiaomi but the user who does not know what he/she is doing!
I can see Xiaomi want to protect their regional markets and want to try and discourage people from buying phones outside of their home market. It's s common practice and Xiaomi are far from the only company to regionalise their products.
However one thing that I would like to see Xiaomi address, which would prevent the majority of bricks, is to change the default flash option in the Mi Flash Tool.
It's just a momentary loss of concentration and many people have bricked the phone.
Other reasons of bricking the phone tend to come down to user laziness and stupidity, in not doing sufficient research in to what they are doing, so for these cases nothing needs to be addressed as it teaches these users a valuable lesson (quite often the lesson is that YouTube is not a good resource on how to flash phones).
Snah001 said:
Bricking your phone is not Xiaomi's fault but the user's who deliberately unlock their device and do not know what he/she is doing without starting at first to read A LOT what unlocking and flashing stock/custom roms and/or kernels means and what the
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That is the protection that Xiaomi and other brands provide stock and when you deliberately without enough knowledge unlock your bootloader and start flashing whatever rom/kernel is asking for problems.
So do not blame Xiaomi but the user who does not know what he/she is doing!
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Nice rant but it is a fact that Xiaomi does not allow us to freely and easily go into EDL mode.
This is possible for example with an Axon 7 (and that makes it almost impossible to brick).
DeepAnger said:
Nice rant but it is a fact that Xiaomi does not allow us to freely and easily go into EDL mode.
This is possible for example with an Axon 7 (and that makes it almost impossible to brick).
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You are missing the point.
By unlocking the bootloader it is YOUR responsibility to do things right and that is exactly what I am warning users for.
It is not Xiaomi's responsibility when a user makes mistakes and brick their device.
Compare it with a car where you decide to do all your maintenance and repair yourself.
Making a mistake by putting wrong or not correct parts in let's say a clutch and the car breaks down it is your fault and not the manufacturer.
So when you "demand" free access to a Xiaoimi special account not intended for normal users but only for eligible service centers because you made a stupid mistake is way over the top.
Only thing I can advise is that when you want to fiddle around with the device with an unlocked bootloader, no matter what brand it concerns, do your research first, read everything what is necessary to safely flash roms, firmware etc. and when you enter an area where you are not familiar with stay then away from it.
Fiddling around with an unlocked device is always at your own risk and do not blame the manufacturer when you bricked it.
Robbo.5000 said:
However one thing that I would like to see Xiaomi address, which would prevent the majority of bricks, is to change the default flash option in the Mi Flash Tool.
It's just a momentary loss of concentration and many people have bricked the phone.
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This. 100% this. I think this is a major cause of a lot of problems. Even the most experienced user could potentially overlook it and end up with a nasty situation on their hands. This is partly why I delete the bat/sh scripts for flash_all_and_lock; factory, etc. so even if I somehow didn't do my over-observative check of the 'lock' radio buttons, it wouldn't go through anyway.
People have been accidentally locking their bootloader while using MI Flash for as long as I've owned Xiaomi phones. The fact that Xiaomi chose not to fix MI Flash so it isn't so easy to accidentally lock the bootloader despite years of complaints from Xiaomi owners who bricked their phones can only mean Xiaomi decided to allow it to keep happening.
While Xiaomi still allows bootloader unlocking they clearly don't encourage it and they also clearly have no interest in helping customers who brick their phones after unlocking.
When the bootloader is accidentally relocked Xiaomi tech support can bind the user account to the device which allows their bootloader unlock tool to work and the owner to recover their device and boot up again--but finding anyone at Xiaomi support who will actually do that is pretty much like winning the lottery.
I'm a fan of Xiaomi phones but I've also owned them long enough to know if you brick your phone you're on your own.