Related
So, I've been spending the better part of an hour scouring over the Anandtech teardown gallery of the prime trying to get a decent understanding of the GPS/WiFi antennas and the underlying design flaws which contribute to these features messing up; namely the giant metal shield of a cover and the placement of the antennas. They're not exactly in a bad place, but I guess Asus assumed that if you were using WiFi/GPS with your tablet then you would always do so with the screen facing the AP/satellites. In reality, mine at least, it's the back of the device generally pointing to these things. Maybe I place my network hubs in strange places and enjoy astronomy apps too much?
Now on to the actual question, especially to any of you who have gotten the device and been brave enough to peek inside it yourself; would creating my own plastic windows/metal grates within the aluminum backing actually help anything? Do these antennas broadcast a 360 degree signal or are they directional? The motherboard itself would allow decent signal to get to the transmitter wouldn't it, so long as the case does?
My order isn't set to ship for another month, but I think I'll be getting this tablet regardless of the known issues, though the audio/video problems with the miniHDMI port make me a bit nervous. This thing will still be a power-house even as better spec'd tablets come out, just like my single-core Desire Z is still pretty relevant and decent. Just not top-of-the-line, and it wasn't for any real amount of time, but that's just how these things go.
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
tshoulihane said:
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coupling to the backplate, though increasing power decreases accuracy doesn't it?
I hadn't thought of the pogo-pins as a possible culprit, that's certainly possible.
Couldn't I make a couple windows and retro-fit either some plastic or plexi-glass into the design? Would that help keep from de-tuning, especially if kept to a small size with accurate positioning?
Thank you for the response, I know nothing of the finer details on GPS and other wireless signals.
*Edit: After re-reading and thinking, I actually understand what you're saying. Plastic or no, any cutout would need to be a very specific size larger than the antenna itself which would take more than I would be able to do I'm sure. Oh well, I know I'll still love this thing, so long as the miniHDMI works properly, I'll be happy. Phone's GPS works like a dream.
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are we about this? I've read that Apple puts their WiFi antenna behind the black plastic logo on their WiFi-only models for exactly this reason. Not only that, but on the 3g models they simply have all the wireless modules placed on top of the device where they are covered with black plastic as well.
It seems to me that a stupid plastic apple cutout - a complex geometric shape - is not likely capable of being as "tuned" as a rectangular cutout. Yet, I think it's safe to say that the 3G and WiFi versions of the iPad have similar if not identical WiFi performance. That is to say, I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty. I think it's safe to hack away at.
Thoughts?
JazzMac251 said:
I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for some heat dispersion too?
I wish they would start selling the back plate only (like they do with ipods etc)
That way i'm sure someone could cutout a shape and try the antenna behind a plastic window etc, but youd always have the option to put the original back.
I wouldnt mind modding mine after the garantee has ran out.
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Docaroo said:
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
JazzMac251 said:
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Yakandu said:
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be, but it's still a good two-four weeks before I have mine. All mentions of it I've seen in general never get answered, I haven't seen anyone comment on whether or not they've tried without the backing. Probably because most aren't willing to try and heat up the glue to do so or damage the thing in the process...
Some expertise required
Does the aluminium back plate attenuate both wifi and gps signals? From what I have read it seems to be confirmed that this is the situation, although other factors such as internal interference have NOT been discounted, nor has the connection method (gold pogo pin) between motherboard and the antennae (blackened out pcb strip). I have noted on the TF101 Transformer teardown, a very similar placement of both WIFI and GPS antennae to that on the TF201 Transformer Prime - near the top edge and adjacent each other. Looking at similarities between models, an obvious and perhaps too simple explination would be the aluminium back plate. There does seem to be some interest in experimenting with making some holes (similar to the speaker grill), on the back plate in front of the antennae in the hope that it MAY improve reception. I have read numerous posts and was hoping that someone may have tried this. I don't want to hear about the merits of having or not having a GPS and how it matters to them personaly etc - lets focus people, but whether someone has had the ability and knowledge to try it. I am unsure given the wavelength of both GPS and WIFI (1.2 / 1.5 Ghz) whether mutliple small holes would do it. I feel that a transparent plastic window may be required. I do not believe the back plate is used a coupled ground plate etc. and it is used purely as the chasis. Come on - there has to be some smart engineering graduates/professionals who are willing to give this a go...it would have been nice if they were paid by ASUS but that seems unlikely. Point to note - that the GPS and WIFI antennas (there are two for the WIFI on the TF201) would be obtaining some reception through the front gorilla glass and plastic (on which the antennae are mounted). My question is - what and IF modifications are necessary to the back plate to obtain better reception. Any ideas?
I have not seen a single test where anyone proved it was the back plate. Anyone have a link to a test that shows the prime navigating successfully without the back plate?
Since it's the aluminum back that's supposedly blocking the signal, one could theoretically cutout or punch some small holes over the wireless device akin to the speaker port. Then since the back is so easily stretchable, get a protective skin and put it over top.
Thoughts?
Erusman removed the back of his Prime and then installed antennae that go through the back in order to improve WiFi and GPS performance. However most people haven't found any value with the idea of cutting up the back of their Prime since there is no guarantee that WiFi will improve by a significant amount, however it is 100% guaranteed that cutting a hole in the back of the Prime will void your warranty.
There are plenty of Prime's out there that have pretty good WiFi performance. My Prime's WiFi is nearly as good as my Windows laptop and more than good enough for everything I would ever need to do on my tablet.
If your WiFi isn't working well enough to meet your needs, return or exchange your Prime for one that is working better.
I've had 2 prime side to side and one gets better speed than the other connected to the same router and test ran separately. So IMO there's either faulty hardware or bad connection. Have you tried getting an exchange?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
At last some real info in a sea of misinformation.
The only thing which will fix this and the gps issue is a good window with a non-conductive cover, or maybe a plug-in or screw-in antenna.
I am sure, though, that some of the preproduction models had some hardware issues relating to antennas, as well as the oft quoted "metal back" issue.
I, too am finding the WiFi performance acceptable, and the sheer flexibility and neatness of the rest of the UK package (tab +dock) has made me a firm fan of the ATP.
Shame about the GPS, though, as there are many google and Android apps which work with phones and GPS which could translate productively to the Prime.
FG (confirmed fan)
Ok thanks for the insight everyone. I now believe my original concept wouldn't work.
I'm curious if there's has been any confirmation of an improved signal by simply removing the back. Someone had said it could be as much a hardware issue as it is the back design.
My wifi is acceptable, it's about the same as it is on my Nexus One which I'd feel bad complaining about. Though it's not as good as my Macbook.
I was just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions. Maybe I'll look into the antennea.
Felisek said:
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the plastic apple on the back of the ipad where the wifi is mounted is a gimmick? I find that a little hard to believe.
no, the apple cut out is big enough to let some RF through.
compact antennas and some serious amplification will do the rest. Look at the size of some of the antenna modules in other threads to see how small they are.
In fact look at how small the ipad antenna which is stuck behind the apple logo is.
the poster was right that a few small holes in a grounded plate would not let through enough juice to work.
That would amount to a Farady cage, which is used to screen RF signals, not let them through.
FG
So, I want something to replace my TV box/free view and watch youtube
sub 90£(140 dollars)
does not matter the interface
can handle 1080p without problems
usb otg,
size does not matter
does not need a cotroller, i have some wiimote layng around...
at least ics 4.0
1 gb of ram would be nice but not a must
at least a dual core or very powerfull single core and gpu to handle the os wit no lag and play some phisics games like apparatus and bad piggies
Is there something running jb yet? Or that at least has a recovery so it would be possible run a custom ROM? That I could port a ROM for ( I dev apps but never a ROM) whatever that's not very important
Any ideas?
check out the mk802's i have a couple mk802 II's and theyre very fun to play with. theres an mk802 III being released shortly as well.
Odroid-X seems to be all you need (take a look to the PandaBoard too, more expensive and less powerful, but it's a more complete choice).
RoberGalarga said:
Odroid-X seems to be all you need (take a look to the PandaBoard too, more expensive and less powerful, but it's a more complete choice).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those odroid and pandaboard products are pretty awesome for development and testing, but if youre looking for something under 75 bucks that will do everything. includes wifi, and hooks right up to your tv. i would go with any of the mk802's. just a bit larger than a usb flash drive, and does everything you would expect a newer android phone or tablet to do.
haxin said:
check out the mk802's i have a couple mk802 II's and theyre very fun to play with. theres an mk802 III being released shortly as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, i would preffer go with the mk808, has already jb, and now you pointed out the mk802 III, and you can already buy it here now im deciding between those 2, seems the same product to me...
haxin said:
those odroid and pandaboard products are pretty awesome for development and testing, but if youre looking for something under 75 bucks that will do everything. includes wifi, and hooks right up to your tv. i would go with any of the mk802's. just a bit larger than a usb flash drive, and does everything you would expect a newer android phone or tablet to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
360porcento said:
Yeah, i would preffer go with the mk808, has already jb, and now you pointed out the mk802 III, and you can already buy it here now im deciding between those 2, seems the same product to me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow... the MK802 III looks pretty awesome, dual core for $66 (and free shipping to MX :highfive
I'm thinking about purchase a RaspberryPI, but this is a better choice to convert my LCD to a smart TV
one bit of warning, when you first get one of your mk802's youre going to be very surprised how terrible the wifi signal is. the reason for this is that they cram the wireless dipole antenna inside the little plastic case right up next to the wireless chip, and other internal connections (that dont have any rf shielding). theres a couple things you can do to solve this. #1 drill a small hole in the case and let the wireless antenna through. #2 take it out of the case completely. #3 you can de-solder the stock antenna and solder on a pigtail of your choice. I soldered an rp-sma female right o the wireless chip and mounted it through a hole i drilled on the case so that i could attach any type of antenna i like.
Any chance of a tutorial?
Hello,
I think what you did with the antenna is sheer genius! Based on what I've been reading on various forums across the net, your solution is the only sure fire cure for the wifi ills of the MK808.
Due to the delicate and potentially disastrous nature of the procedures you alluded to, do you know where to find the information needed by a layman such as myself, to be guided step by illustrated step in how to perform, say option #3 you mentioned, (de-solder the stock antenna and solder on a pigtail of your choice)?
Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated by myself, and I dare to speculate, many more people looking for the same solution.
Thank you.
Paul
haxin said:
one bit of warning, when you first get one of your mk802's youre going to be very surprised how terrible the wifi signal is. the reason for this is that they cram the wireless dipole antenna inside the little plastic case right up next to the wireless chip, and other internal connections (that dont have any rf shielding). theres a couple things you can do to solve this. #1 drill a small hole in the case and let the wireless antenna through. #2 take it out of the case completely. #3 you can de-solder the stock antenna and solder on a pigtail of your choice. I soldered an rp-sma female right o the wireless chip and mounted it through a hole i drilled on the case so that i could attach any type of antenna i like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MK808 with working wifi
haxin said:
one bit of warning, when you first get one of your mk802's youre going to be very surprised how terrible the wifi signal is. the reason for this is that they cram the wireless dipole antenna inside the little plastic case right up next to the wireless chip, and other internal connections (that dont have any rf shielding). theres a couple things you can do to solve this. #1 drill a small hole in the case and let the wireless antenna through. #2 take it out of the case completely. #3 you can de-solder the stock antenna and solder on a pigtail of your choice. I soldered an rp-sma female right o the wireless chip and mounted it through a hole i drilled on the case so that i could attach any type of antenna i like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an MK808 that originally had extreme problems keeping a steady connection to wifi. I tried installing Finless 1.5a ROM to no success, however, after installing Finless 1.6 ROM, everything works perfectly. I didn't have to make any changes to the antenna and I now have a strong, steady wifi connection that enables me to play internet videos, Android games, music, whatever.
mk808 remote control app
Hi, does any body know an app that I can use to control my mk808 from my SGS2? the one that they have on play store is for mk802iii and it's not working with mk808 . Thanks
Hello,
Before i get into the problem, i have technical experience and did not do this on a whim. Had to replace the USB port/microphone chipset in my Galaxy S2 so i bought a new part, and carefully took it apart. I did not have to remove the motherboard since i could work within the confines for installing the new chipset. Did, was careful with the antenna, but after putting it all together, i have slightly lower reception. When i had full bars i now i have three out of four.
Was there anything in special i had to keep in mind when handling the antenna? As far as i know it's a simple lead wire. What can i try apart from simple reseating the connector? Thanks.
Seems i found the source: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1950114&page=4
Will do 'the cutting method' today since after looking more carefully at the chipset the sides really are separate.
Please update this thread if solved
So I recently discovered that the Rezound (and other phones) receive signal through the battery door. I did not previously know this. I was wondering if anyone had any information on how this works. The reason I want to know is because I am in a VERY low service area, and if I stand in certain areas or at a certain angle in my house, I can get service enough to make calls and send texts, but just the slightest move can ruin it. I know all about the Network Extenders and Boosters and all the external hardware you can obtain to help this problem, but I was thinking of a more direct way that one might possibly increase their signal.
What I was thinking is that old cell phones have antennas, right? So if the Rezound (and other smartphones) use a similar or at least some kind of antenna system (such as through the door of the phone) then maybe one could use a wire and rig it to attach to the door to increase signal.
I wanted to try poking a hole big enough to fit a small wire through the top of the door, but small enough to not be noticed, and then try and attach the wire to one of the pieces of the door that grabs the signal. I want to be able to remove it if I want to, but I would figure out how to do that part on my own.
I basically just want to know what part of the door is giving my phone its signal. I see that the door has what look like metal plates on it and I am guessing those have something to do with it.
Can someone give me a little more info on how this works so I can try to figure something out for myself?
Thanks a ton!
Btw I realize doing something like this (even if it worked) will increase the signal very insignificantly, but I figure that it might be kind of fun to at least try and see what happens.
TyWillems19 said:
So I recently discovered that the Rezound (and other phones) receive signal through the battery door. I did not previously know this. I was wondering if anyone had any information on how this works. The reason I want to know is because I am in a VERY low service area, and if I stand in certain areas or at a certain angle in my house, I can get service enough to make calls and send texts, but just the slightest move can ruin it. I know all about the Network Extenders and Boosters and all the external hardware you can obtain to help this problem, but I was thinking of a more direct way that one might possibly increase their signal.
What I was thinking is that old cell phones have antennas, right? So if the Rezound (and other smartphones) use a similar or at least some kind of antenna system (such as through the door of the phone) then maybe one could use a wire and rig it to attach to the door to increase signal.
I wanted to try poking a hole big enough to fit a small wire through the top of the door, but small enough to not be noticed, and then try and attach the wire to one of the pieces of the door that grabs the signal. I want to be able to remove it if I want to, but I would figure out how to do that part on my own.
I basically just want to know what part of the door is giving my phone its signal. I see that the door has what look like metal plates on it and I am guessing those have something to do with it.
Can someone give me a little more info on how this works so I can try to figure something out for myself?
Thanks a ton!
Btw I realize doing something like this (even if it worked) will increase the signal very insignificantly, but I figure that it might be kind of fun to at least try and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Antennas are very complicated....a wire really wont help you....if you can pick some up id get paint with a hight metal content of gold or copper...prefferably gold...and go over where the copper paint already is...thats the antenna and a slight elongation of the paints design can cause alot of issues....ive tried aluminum tape and it really didnt do much justice in signal...i tried gold content paint as i had some laying around and had great sucess....although the cost would be just as much as building your own signal booster antenna....which i can dig up the guides for you on that as well
REV3NT3CH said:
Antennas are very complicated....a wire really wont help you....if you can pick some up id get paint with a hight metal content of gold or copper...prefferably gold...and go over where the copper paint already is...thats the antenna and a slight elongation of the paints design can cause alot of issues....ive tried aluminum tape and it really didnt do much justice in signal...i tried gold content paint as i had some laying around and had great sucess....although the cost would be just as much as building your own signal booster antenna....which i can dig up the guides for you on that as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thank you for the reply!
I would love the guides to making a booster. That will probably help me out.
Do you think if I got a copper wire, like the copper side of a speaker wire, I could strip it and close the door down onto it with the top sticking out? I mean, like I said before, I don't think the signal would be increased drastically at all, but could this help?
The gold paint you mean, is there an alternative or a cheap method of doing something like that besides what you had mentioned?
Thanks again.
TyWillems19 said:
Hey thank you for the reply!
I would love the guides to making a booster. That will probably help me out.
Do you think if I got a copper wire, like the copper side of a speaker wire, I could strip it and close the door down onto it with the top sticking out? I mean, like I said before, I don't think the signal would be increased drastically at all, but could this help?
The gold paint you mean, is there an alternative or a cheap method of doing something like that besides what you had mentioned?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no....they have to match the antenna design thats already there....like i said you can use a better copper paint which is cheaper than gold but gold is much better because of how well it can conduct...sticking a wire in it will proobably give you even worse signal than what you have...the signal booster will still run you a little bit of cash and requires a little bit of knowledge to do so...guides can only go so far sometimes...and unlike old school fliphones or old brick phones with antennas the ones is this phone are designed and programmed a very certain way and is complex...hence why your best bet would be a signal booster...let me google around for the right guide and ill get back to you
REV3NT3CH said:
no....they have to match the antenna design thats already there....like i said you can use a better copper paint which is cheaper than gold but gold is much better because of how well it can conduct...sticking a wire in it will proobably give you even worse signal than what you have...the signal booster will still run you a little bit of cash and requires a little bit of knowledge to do so...guides can only go so far sometimes...and unlike old school fliphones or old brick phones with antennas the ones is this phone are designed and programmed a very certain way and is complex...hence why your best bet would be a signal booster...let me google around for the right guide and ill get back to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About how much would the booster cost, and it'd work with other phones in the house too? Service is spotty in our house too for some of the phones.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
jagrave said:
About how much would the booster cost, and it'd work with other phones in the house too? Service is spotty in our house too for some of the phones.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can buy one outright for around $150 or make one for about $50 to $75....also depends on if you want one band repeated or up to 3 bands...rezound on verizon only uses 2 though....and yes it will work for any phone that uses that band and or carrier...the cheaper alternative is the paint...which runs about $30 for the gold or $15 to $20 for the copper
Heck, I would really love a signal booster. I usually have one bar of signal, and I can't ever call or text out here
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk
tmanschuette said:
Heck, I would really love a signal booster. I usually have one bar of signal, and I can't ever call or text out here
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when i lived in the woodland areas of massachussets i had to try whatever i could for better signal...im looking for a good thorough guide on building one but not having much luck....may just write my own as i know how and whats needed
Right? I have to drive to the end of the street to make a call. We live in a valley in the middle of Nm, so the mountains don't help.
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk