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There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
Civil liberties advocates have asked the US Federal Trade Commission to take action against the nation's four major wireless carriers for selling millions of Android smartphones that never, or only rarely, receive updates to patch dangerous security vulnerabilities.
The request for investigation and complaint for injunctive relief was filed Tuesday by the American Civil Liberties Union against AT&T, Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel, and T-Mobile USA. The majority of phones that the carriers sell run Google's Android operating system and rarely receive software updates, the 16-page document stated. It went on to allege that the practice violates provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act barring deceptive and unfair business practices, since the carriers don't disclose that the failure to provide updates in a timely manner puts customers at greater risk of hacking attacks. Among other things, the filing seeks an order allowing customers to terminate contracts that cover a phone that's no longer eligible to receive updates.
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I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
def2moto said:
There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
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Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
Blah, ACLU. Just another political action committee.
Hey I know this will come as a great shock to you all. For the time I spent with Sprint this afternoon I could've done some web work or something and made enough money to just pay their fees but its the *principle* ya know?
Anyway, when I contacted them several ways to get the early termination waved or get like the HTC One for switching new customer price because of the lack of upgrades, the first chat person said "Oh the Q update went out on the 14th" and then told me to call in.
I called in a few times, a Dominique hung up on me, but a Heidi was as sympathetic as the corporate manual allows. The price kept changing. They said I could do an early upgrade for $160 plus then the upgrade cost of a phone. Then they dropped that to $155. They said the early termination to $175.
Anyway, they also claimed that I should just go to the store to have them fix the security problems. I told them that wouldn't help, and they didn't believe me. They also told me that no one is complaining about any hacks.
So if you're bored, go ahead an try to inform a customer service rep about this complaint. I know this matters nothing, but I think that since we're in the right with it that it is a situation that we should participate fully in. Even if you no longer have a Photon the complaint is still valid for all phones not on 4.2, and for probably most phones against still when 4.3 comes out.
I know we also somewhat benefit from having the control of being able to hack the things, but that is subtly different than someone in the future finding browser vulnerabilities that stay open for years. It could eventually lead to them locking things down a la Apple, but that is a different fight. Hack it if you own it, don't hack it if you don't own it.
tomgaga said:
Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
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This old thread is telling given the recent arrival of the Stagefright exploit. ACLU was on the money with this one two years and I can now imagine a potential massive class-action lawsuit against carriers for negligence with user data security. Forced arbitration agreements are likely to head off such an effort, but there are signs that the legal stakes for consumer data security are rising: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/new-hope-victims-data-breaches/
Instead of jockeying for lower prices or switching to no contracts, one of the major carriers should standout by creating a low-cost-no-added-commitment phone upgrade program since the cost of supporting older phones is too high for their bottom line. If they don't do it themselves, I can imagine a day when carriers are soon required to issue phone recalls when a substantial exploit is discovered.
http://www.droid-life.com/2013/04/2...-against-htc-one-over-duplicated-microphones/
As if the HTC One hasn’t seen enough setbacks already before its launch, a new court ruling against HTC in the Netherlands looks to make it even worse. Nokia has been awarded a preliminary injunction against the HTC One centering around high-amplitude microphones that are found in the phone. The microphones found inside the One are the exact same as the mics found in the Lumia 720, and that is no good for HTC.
The same company makes the microphones for HTC and Nokia, but Nokia says that the components of these mics in particular were made specifically for Nokia. While this could be a mistake on HTC’s part, it could have been the fault of the microphone manufacturer in this case. In the meantime the One is facing more setbacks.
HTC says they are “disappointed” in the decision from the court and that they will “explore alternate solutions immediately.”
Existing phones using the components face no sales ban
Dutch courts find HTC 'blameless' in Nokia's microphone dispute, but sales of offending parts halted for six months
The full details have emerged about yesterday's actions in the Netherlands, where a court was said to have handed down a preliminary injunction against the HTC one on behalf of Nokia. According to the district court filing, the courts have imposed a 10-month ban on ST Microelectronics selling any of the dual-membrane microphone pieces that were designed and co-developed by Nokia. Apparently, some miscommunication led ST Micro to believe that the exclusivity agreement for Nokia was only six months, when it was actually 12. As a penalty the terms were extended a further six months, during which time ST Micro is not allowed to sell the parts to anyone other than Nokia.
We don't make this up, we just report it.
The courts found HTC "blameless", as they could not know the details of a confidential agreement between Nokia and ST Micro, and they face no penalties. Nor are their products banned in the Netherlands or anywhere else. They will not be allowed to source the components from ST Micro for six months, though -- which could easily lead to supply issues and expensive re-engineering for future HTC One shipments. HTC has issued a statement saying in part that they "do not expect this decision to have any immediate impact on our handset sales." But they certainly can't be happy.
CheesyNutz said:
While this could be a mistake on HTC’s part, it could have been the fault of the microphone manufacturer in this case.
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Vendors like Nokia have third parties like STMicroelectronics build components using their designs and specs all the time. That doesn't give the third party license to reuse or resell what they received from a vendor when the component in question was "exclusive." If it wasn't clearly exclusive Nokia wouldn't have been granted an injuction in less than a week. But HTC's to blame too. Their legal department should have screened every component used in the one to make sure it wasn't violating another company's patent or designs. Since the part is an HTC device they bear the responsibility but will most likely go after STM for the damages they suffer. Assuming STM's big enough to absorb them.
HTC just can't catch a break. I like their phones though.
I felt kind of mixed over this when I heard about it considering I own both phones.
This might be the end of HTC. They were counting on the ONE to help them out.. It wont if its banned!! I just dont think they can afford to keep up after this. Very sad because i love HTC phones.
nugzo said:
This might be the end of HTC. They were counting on the ONE to help them out.. It wont if its banned!! I just dont think they can afford to keep up after this. Very sad because i love HTC phones.
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Nobody is going to "ban" HTC, it's the part in question that is the issue, and I'm sure it'll get worked out. Nokia is still trying to make a comeback themselves, they can hardly afford to get in a fight.
It's pretty much guaranteed that STM was breaching contract when they decided to do this. HTC is at fault for trusting suppliers to follow the law and honor contracts, so I guess it's time to try and preach jeremiads of how HTC is going to go bankrupt.
nugzo said:
This might be the end of HTC. They were counting on the ONE to help them out.. It wont if its banned!! I just dont think they can afford to keep up after this. Very sad because i love HTC phones.
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The Apple injunction didn't end them last year, but yeah HTC is becoming the betamax of Android, while Samsung is VHS. (You won't understand this if you're not old like me)
---------- Post added at 07:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 AM ----------
californiarailroader said:
Nobody is going to "ban" HTC, it's the part in question that is the issue, and I'm sure it'll get worked out. Nokia is still trying to make a comeback themselves, they can hardly afford to get in a fight.
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Nokia has patents, that's the only thing keeping them from going under.
If Nokia had gone with Android instead of Windows phone they'd be on top again.
californiarailroader said:
Nobody is going to "ban" HTC, it's the part in question that is the issue, and I'm sure it'll get worked out. Nokia is still trying to make a comeback themselves, they can hardly afford to get in a fight.
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Im not talking about banning HTC, talking about banning the ONE. Kind of like how apple tried to ban the One X. The difference is Nokia is right here...They have a great case!!..i think they would win in a fight against struggling HTC. Dont get me wrong.. I love HTC and wish them all the luck. Hopefully it's not their fault and its the mic manufacturers fault.. Either way this hurts HTC very badly!! I dont know what i'd do if i had to switch manufacturers..I guess i can hope that Google shows up with an awesome Motorola device!!
nugzo said:
Im not talking about banning HTC, talking about banning the ONE. Kind of like how apple tried to ban the One X. The difference is Nokia is right here...They have a great case!!..
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Do you have some insider knowledge that lets you know they have a great case?
The One won't get banned. HTC and Nokia will work out a licensing deal if it's needed..
Love how stuff like this always get blown way out of proportion..
I'm not worried about a ban, but any more delays getting this phone to market can only hurt a company that's already in a precarious situation.
I wonder how this will affect the release of the black version.
gunnyman said:
I'm not worried about a ban.
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The only reason there wasn't a ban in the EU is because Nokia's mic technology is only patented in the U.S. I'm sure Nokia's already filing with the ITC seeking both an importation ban and stop-sale on the One.
This is from the international forum...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2246517&page=5
mmathiou said:
Yes but both HTC and Nokia are big companies with huge orders, so I do not think ST will cut any of them.
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In a normal world issues like this wouldn't happen. Upon finding that STM (assumingly inadvertently) offered their technology to another company, Nokia would just say "OK, pay me $X as a license fee per unit and we'll call it good." But just like Apple vs. Samsung, it isn't about money it's about inflicting pain and damage on your competitors. As Hamdir pointed out, HTC and Nokia have a blood feud going because of HTC's entry in the Windows Mobile world which was Nokia's turf. Nokia's going to use the STM issue to inflict as much pain as they can on HTC (via STM). And unlike some of these tussles which are ambiguous this one's pretty black and white. So I'd guess any type of settlement is unlikely and that HTC will have to come up with another microphone to use.
And since the mic technology is patented in the U.S. there’s no doubt Nokia will file for an emergency injunction against HTC with the ITC seeking to bar the importation of the One. In U.S. law there’s a saying “ignorantia legis neminem excusat.” Translated from Latin it’s “ignorance of the law excuses no one.” HTC’s legal department should have verified well in advance that any of the components (theirs or third parties) used in the One didn’t violate any patents or use agreements. So the fact that STM sold them Nokia’s technology won’t allow HTC to claim “victim” status; at least not in the U.S. As someone said earlier, HTC’s contract with STM will hold STM responsible for the impact of this issue but it won’t prevent the ITC from taking action against HTC for using the offending part.
Changing out the mic isn’t as simple as it sounds though. The good news is that the mic chip isn't on the motherboard; it's on the daughter board which minimizes the reengineering work. But HTC's going to have design a new daughter board to accommodate the new mic and then modify all the s/w to account for the change in performance characteristics. A new daughter board may require FCC and CE re-certification. HTC's assembles their phones but components like the mother and daughter board arrive pre-assembled from someone else. So HTC's got to find a new mic, work with a partner to redesign the daughter board, get it in to production, and possibly have to have it re-certified. It's not a fast or trivial exercise.
updated OP with more
CheesyNutz said:
They will not be allowed to source the components from ST Micro for six months, though -- which could easily lead to supply issues and expensive re-engineering for future HTC One shipments. HTC has issued a statement saying in part that they "do not expect this decision to have any immediate impact on our handset sales." But they certainly can't be happy.
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This is a translation of the actual court order. STM can't sell the mics to anyone but Nokia until March 2014 or until an existing arbitration case that's being heard in Finland (Nokia's home town) decides otherwise. And the difference between the finding in the EU and whatever happens in the U.S. is that the technology used in the mic is patented by Nokia here. The ITC (not the courts) will decide whether to issue a non-importation order and/or a stop-sale. They are the same body that halted the One X in the U.S. when Apple filed a complaint over the use of the app-picker s/w patent. Dealing with a patent violation is different than dealing with an exclusivity agreement and whether HTC knew or didn't know that what STM provided was patented by someone else won't leave them "blameless" in the eyes of the patent tribunal.
One factor that HTC (or other customers) can not be that they receive a product that ST towards them was them that contractually obliged not (yet) provide known. They are therefore not acted unlawfully against Nokia in ST Tufnell microphones to buy. Therefore - now an absolute right of Nokia is missing - no legal presence which ST could base to return of the Tufnell delivered enforce microphones themselves against HTC (or other customers). Under those circumstances, a recall no appropriate form of compensation. 4.10. The advanced penalty will be maximized. 4.11. ST will be largely if convicted. Unsuccessful party in the proceedings The costs on the part of Nokia are estimated at: - summons EUR 104,00 - 589,00 registry - attorney fees 816.00 Total 1509.00 EUR 5. The decision The court 5.1. ST commands to stop after the service of this judgment immediately the supply of dual-diaphragm Microphones (Tufnell) to any person other than Nokia and keep up to March 1, 2014 or until the arbitration between the parties in Helsinki discontinued otherwise decided, 5.2. condemns ST to Nokia to pay EUR 50,000.00 for each "Tufnell" double diaphragm microphone despite the above under 5.1 a penalty payment. command specified in the said period to another than Nokia comes up to a maximum of EUR 1,000,000.00 is reached 5.3. ST condemns the proceedings, on the part of Nokia to date estimated at EUR 1,509.00, 5.4. declares this judgment provisionally enforceable, 5.5. the more points otherwise requested. This judgment was delivered by Mr. RHC Jongeneel, judge, assisted by PJ van Vliet, Registrar, and the public on April 22, 2013.http://zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/detailpage.aspx?ljn=BZ8278
Only a question of time before Sony abandons electronics altogether as a corporation. It is their financial services, specifically life insurance, that provides profits and support the business.
http://www.splatf.com/2011/11/sony-profits/
http://www.phonedog.com/2013/10/11/i-ll-miss-you-sony-but-i-understand-why-you-re-leaving/
Bye bye Sonyyy
Hmmm...I'm not sure why you seem to think it's "only a question of time" before Sony gets out of electronics. These past couple of quarters have been their only good ones in a while, and they came as a result of the new corporate strategy with a big mobile push. It doesn't make any sense for them to start winding down now. All the CEO said was that considering the amount of resources it takes to crack the US market, it makes more sense for them to consolidate and strengthen their base in Japan and Europe before attempting to spread out.
If you ask me, it sounds very reasonable, and I think it's a great sign that Sony now has management that is capable of analyzing their situation and coming up with a concrete, step-by-step plan for improving it. As opposed to, for instance, HTC, who is just flailing about with no apparent direction.
AntiLazarus said:
Hmmm...I'm not sure why you seem to think it's "only a question of time" before Sony gets out of electronics. These past couple of quarters have been their only good ones in a while, and they came as a result of the new corporate strategy with a big mobile push. It doesn't make any sense for them to start winding down now. All the CEO said was that considering the amount of resources it takes to crack the US market, it makes more sense for them to consolidate and strengthen their base in Japan and Europe before attempting to spread out.
If you ask me, it sounds very reasonable, and I think it's a great sign that Sony now has management that is capable of analyzing their situation and coming up with a concrete, step-by-step plan for improving it. As opposed to, for instance, HTC, who is just flailing about with no apparent direction.
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Oh look a fcuking expert right fcuking here
AntiLazarus said:
Hmmm...I'm not sure why you seem to think it's "only a question of time" before Sony gets out of electronics. These past couple of quarters have been their only good ones in a while, and they came as a result of the new corporate strategy with a big mobile push. It doesn't make any sense for them to start winding down now. All the CEO said was that considering the amount of resources it takes to crack the US market, it makes more sense for them to consolidate and strengthen their base in Japan and Europe before attempting to spread out.
If you ask me, it sounds very reasonable, and I think it's a great sign that Sony now has management that is capable of analyzing their situation and coming up with a concrete, step-by-step plan for improving it. As opposed to, for instance, HTC, who is just flailing about with no apparent direction.
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Agreed. Nothing in that article points to anything showing Sony will pull out of the US. They will probably continue to sell their phones unlocked through their website without investing tons in brand name or working with carriers. For now at least.
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I can only speak of Oceania where I am from. Sony devices are the most expensive. e.g.
Sony LED 52" is $3,900
LG LED 52" is $2,200
Samsung LED 52" is $2,900
Sony is renown here for a status symbol. No one in their right mind (only the rich) buy their brands. Their mobiles have come down in price a lot, and their Z1 and Ultra were similar prices to the S4 and Note 3. Otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.
In saying that they do particularly well in Asia. So saying that they will no longer sell electronics is mental. Perhaps in America.
Sebring5 said:
Only a question of time before Sony abandons electronics altogether as a corporation. It is their financial services, specifically life insurance, that provides profits and support the business.
http://www.splatf.com/2011/11/sony-profits/
http://www.phonedog.com/2013/10/11/i-ll-miss-you-sony-but-i-understand-why-you-re-leaving/
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What??? How do people come up with the conclusion that Sony is "exiting" the US market? And scantlin of phonedog is actually a paid reporter, and she said she will miss them!
Leaving is NOT what the CEO said.
"Our biggest priority is maintaining our share in Japan or increasing it ... But getting into the U.S. market requires a lot of resources and marketing, so we have to go one step at a time."
Even the guy at the Verge said "Sony is leaving.... for now". This newage electonic media and "news", the Internet! These reporters just crank the news out, like their articles don't get edited and verified by a second person before they are publised.
All the man did was point out the importance of maintaining the overseas market share, and the difficulty of penetrating the US market, which they will do 1 step at a time.
Imdking said:
What??? How do people come up with the conclusion that Sony is "exiting" the US market? And scantlin of phonedog is actually a paid reporter, and she said she will miss them!
Leaving is NOT what the CEO said.
"Our biggest priority is maintaining our share in Japan or increasing it ... But getting into the U.S. market requires a lot of resources and marketing, so we have to go one step at a time."
Even the guy at the Verge said "Sony is leaving.... for now". This newage electonic media and "news", the Internet! These reporters just crank the news out, like their articles don't get edited and verified by a second person before they are publised.
All the man did was point out the importance of maintaining the overseas market share, and the difficulty of penetrating the US market, which they will do 1 step at a time.
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This is simply what some people would like to see. Like that they can feel better buying something else and wish to make people go the same way as they do. Sony is a brand that put a lot of money on development and build, and they have hard time to be able to compete with Samsung and LG who flood the market with heavy marketing and communication. Marketing and communication are really expensive and so for companies who do it a lot, mean most of the price of the devise is for cover marketing fees.
Envoyé depuis mon C6802 avec xda premium 4
read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/b...-its-not-electronics.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
No offense, but that's old news. Everybody knows Sony's electronics division has been losing money for a while. But now that they have actually managed to start making inroads in this area again, why would they quit? They're obviously determined to turn the electronics division around. I think Hirai meant just what he said.
They're now one of the top mobile manufacturers and they recently publicly said they're aiming to be in the top three which I reckon they can achieve. I like the fact that they support the Dev community, and I think their recent line up for both mobile and laptop is impressive. Their build quality is up there way past Samsung.
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Sony doesnt exit US market, they do not want to expand to US market and focus on UK and Asia.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk 2
I agree, there's been no indication that they are dramatically abandoning the US phone market, as some have implied. And even if they did, do we really care? That wouldn't likely have any effect on XZU owners in the US. Virtually all of whom purchased the international version via the internet, which is "global" in nature.
As long as Sony has a solid international warranty and offers full quad band GSM support for use in the US, the off-contract and unlocked international route is the way to go. Besides, who wants more subsidized on-contract phones anyways?
marc_ecko28 said:
Sony doesnt exit US market, they do not want to expand to US market and focus on Europe and Asia.
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FTFY
Sent from my Z Ultra, using XDA Premium 4
Sony is launching the world's first 4K Ultra HD download service. Films will cost $7.99 to rent and $29.99 to purchase.
"Thomas Halleck / International Business Times"
4K films will cost $29.99 to own from the service, and rentals will cost $7.99. Television episodes are also available for $3.99 each.
I doubt Sony would start a 4k download service that goes with their 4K TV's if they are going to stop their electronic business.
Sony just announced the Xperia Z1 and Ultra are going to be officially released in the US.
http://www.slashgear.com/sony-xperia-z1-and-ultra-usa-editions-appear-off-contract-15301394/
The Sony Xperia Z Ultra works with a pricing at MSRP $649.99 (HSPA+, model C6802), $679.99 (LTE, model C6806) in black, white or purple. Meanwhile the smaller device in the Xperia Z1 works with MSRP $669.99 (HSPA+) in black, white or purple. Again, while these devices may appear with carrier subsidies in the future, for now they’re all off-contract.
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They're literally available in stores, today lol
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http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...ware-nexus-5x-and-6p-not-meeting-sales-goals/
- HTC is still in talks to build the next Nexus phone(s).
- Google takes a 15% cut of the sales price of Nexus phones it sells, but it hasn't always done this, and on some past devices has taken no cut at all.
- The "most recent" Nexus phones (5X, 6P) have not met their "optimistic" internal sales goals at Google.
- The Nexus 5 (2013) was the best-selling Nexus phone of all time.
- That the 5X and 6P aren't being sold by any US carriers is a point of "significant consternation" for people involved with the Nexus program.
My opinion
The 6P and 5X not reaching sales goals ? No ****, because they're not sold in Carrier stores this time. If the iPhone 7 is only sold on the Apple website for $700, no payment plan, you betcha ass sales will suck and be way down. If Google wants sales, they need to put it on all major carriers, BUT ALSO advertise the crap out of it like no tomorrow, and have promotions for it in the stores.
But just throwing it up on the Google website, and saying, her we have a phone we're selling, just give us $600 and it's yours. No **** Sherlock it's not selling well.
Plus in Europe the price was a joke. Too expensive. The only ones who buy a Nexus these days are Nexus fans. The N6P 32gb costs 650-700 euros in EU while the S6 32gb costs 400-450 and the G4 400. So no surprise here. Time to get serious with the Nexus line and stop ripping off geeks and Nexus fans.
Another kick in the balls is the major price drop that comes like 9 months later. Brand new the Nexus 6P is like $600 or so, and then in the spring watch it come down to like $399, and then late Summer will be like $299 brand new still.
I cant imagine carriers will be happy selling an Unlocked phone below the prices of other phones of the same caliber. Id also imagine carriers would want to mark up the phones some how. Also Id imagine other cell phone makers wouldnt be too happy. Imagine Samsung or LG putting their $650 phone out at verizon and then a $500 Nexus 6P shows up being financed through the carrier also. Probably the reason carriers had the Nexus 6 because it came out at the same price as other flagships. Plus carriers wanna put their bloat crap on the phones also.
It does seem google has actually advertised the 5x and 6p. Ive seen a lot of commercials for them. Cant say I ever saw a Nexus 6 commercial.
I think a big reason the sales also aren't up to snuff is the phones just now are being sold in Best Buy. A lot of customers want to hold the phone and see if they like it. Its taken forever for them to just get to best buy and they still don't have phones on display for customers to see. I think best buys having a dedicated nexus booth would help immensely.
Does Worst Buy I mean Best Buy actually have the 6P on display in the store ? My local Best Buy's around Chicago, have a very tiny little Google section off in the corner, and no phones, just the Chrome notebooks, not even the HTC 9 Tablet. So not sure what those Google sections in BB are for if they don't even carry or display the main Nexus devices ?
I agree with OP's opinion, people just DON'T KNOW about these Nexus phones.
There was an article recently stating that Google wants to take more direct control of the Nexus phones, and copy Apple and the iPhone.
Look at the iPhone, it's sold at all major phone carriers stores, with subsidized payments plans. And Apple updates the iPhone whenever the hell they need to, and NEVER let the carriers get in the way of an iOS update. The carriers are sort of agnostic to it.
Google can do the same thing with the Nexus phones just like Apple and the iPhone with complete direct control.
And Jordan used to say "Just do it"
Here in Canada, the Nexus 6p was the best deal on a phone through Telus. $200 for the 6p on a 2yr plan, but $300 or $400 for the Note 5. So it actually was discounted, and made the most sense.
asif9t9 said:
Here in Canada, the Nexus 6p was the best deal on a phone through Telus. $200 for the 6p on a 2yr plan, but $300 or $400 for the Note 5. So it actually was discounted, and made the most sense.
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or $0 for some of us on Black Friday
I was actually able to get a 6P because it was supplied by O2. Otherwise I wouldn't have got one, I like to have it part of my phone contract. Most people in the UK have phones on contract.
I'm happily with T-Mobile, and on their JoD ( Jump on Demand ) program, and expected the Nexus 6P would be available on T-Mobile of all carriers, because they have been the only carrier to support the Nexus phone line from the very beginning, selling the Nexus-One, and stocking and selling the Nexus-S, Nexus 4, Nexus 5, and Nexus 6.
For me it makes zero sense to spend $600 with Google to get the 6P, when on JoD program, so I just used my one of three upgrades on the Note 5, which I rooted and installed a great custom ROM, and this phone screams But I would prefer the Nexus 6P. But at this point, with the 6P being almost 5 months old, I'll just wait for a nice SD820 phone, like the G5 ( with CM13 ROM ) or something else.
It's no surprise that they aren't selling well - they're mediocre phones selling at premium prices. I lol at anyone who buys a nexus - and feel sorry for them too.
The (2013) Nexus 5 was $399 at launch, and had pretty much flagships high end spec's at the time, it was a super deal. Now the 5X comes out at a similar price but with lesser budget spec's. WTF Google ?
Sales, marketing, distribution, and support are intertwined. Any expectation Google has/had about 2015 sales would be determined by their investments in those things as well as the depth of each category.
Huawei has no U.S. support infrastructure and doesn’t even have the facility to offer owners paid non-warranty repairs. I’m sure that played in to the U.S. carrier’s decision not to offer the 6P. Folks that view Nexus as just another phone have to really want one to live with limited support or be forced in to buying a warranty for non-warranty repairs even if they don’t normally.
Without the U.S. carrier’s offering the phone where are mainstream consumers going to buy it? 67% of smartphones sold in the U.S. are on carrier post-paid plans (installment and contract). The majority of the rest are low-end prepaid smartphones purchased outright. The percentage of people buying their own $500+ high-end smartphones outright via third parties is probably in the single digit percentages; at least in the U.S. With limited distribution Google has to have known the consequences of the phones being offered via so few channels.
Google ran a bunch of nicely produced ads randomly on U.S. TV. They probably spent 1/100th of what Samsung spends on their own advertising and in co-ops with the carriers. What’s that supposed to do for sales of a phone only available online and at some Best Buys?
What problem does the 6P solve for the masses that don’t know (or care) about “pure” and regular updates? To the masses TW is Android based on Samsung’s market penetration so the absence of it and its features could be viewed as a deficit not a benefit. Nexus make XDA'rs wet, not so much the masses.
If the 6P isn’t selling well it isn’t because it’s a bad phone it’s that Google’s expectations weren’t realistic in the first place.
The only growth left in phones/tablets is to peel users from competitors. And there's only so much that can be done with UI/UX to set yourself apart. The OEM's have understood this for a while that's why they're making forays into wearables, virtual reality, and driverless cars. I say this because it makes it clear that if Google wants to increase sales of their Nexus line, they have 1 choice: lower the price. Two nexus devices released at the same time both priced too high is a recipe for disaster. There were basically no compelling upgrade reasons except for niche enthusiasts. Luckily for Google (Alphabet), they're an advertising company and not a hardware OEM. So as device sales slow across the board (even iPhone) they are better positioned than most
What are the flaws you find with the 6P as opposed to other premium Android phones?
Bad phone, mediocre phone, are you guys kidding? This is the best android phone. Period! But of course many people prefer pay more for a samsung or something!
Is too bad Google stopped the GPE program, would love to see GPE based phones like the S7, and G5 this Spring, those flagship phones running stock vanilla Android, directly supported by Google, and sold through carrier plans.
stan54 said:
It's no surprise that they aren't selling well - they're mediocre phones selling at premium prices. I lol at anyone who buys a nexus - and feel sorry for them too.
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So, do you actually own one? I didn't think so. If you had used a 6p you would not be saying it was a mediocre phone. It is actually, all in all, the best phone on the market for daily driver use right now. I am currently living in Paraguay, a country with bad overloaded cell phone networks, where most people who can afford smartphones are pretty much locked into Samsung by the carriers here. The radio in my 6p is SO much better than the weak Samsung radios. The battery lasts all day in conditions where I am constantly going in and out of signal areas. Just my point of view, but the problem with these phones is not the phones themselves, but Googles marketing. Of course, I am buying it for the phone and not the marketing...
r3ix said:
This is the best android phone. Period!
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CYoung234 said:
It is actually, all in all, the best phone on the market for daily driver use right now.
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For a niche audience of hobbiests and purists. Even where Nexi were offered by major global carriers along side other premium phones, some more expensive, Nexus sales never came close to competitive phones sales wise if they made a dent at all. The things that push people's buttons on XDA don't represent the masses view. A billion smartphones were sold last year. There are 360K active XDA members over the last 30 days. As @crachel said, the smartphone phone market has matured and even those with recognized names and a loyal customer base are struggling. HTC, Sony, and LG all lost money in mobile last quarter.
crachel said:
There were basically no compelling upgrade reasons except for niche enthusiasts.
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We have a winner.
Hey folks
Just unboxed my G6 and waiting with sweaty palms for the first charge to finish... .
Like most EU users I was annoyed at No ESS Dac or Wireless charging.. but I wonder.. how much of this is directly LGs fault.. and I wonder how much of it is EU / red tape interference..
It just doesnt seem logical that a company would manufacture 2 versions of their flagship and turn out a half baked phone..
We never got the V10 or the V20 .. so I wonder, how much of, selling a half finished device for the same £680 (in Asia it works out £650), is interference by the Financial Euro-prats in Brussels.. after all, Samsung havent removed their Wolfsonn DAC or Wireless charging from the S8, could it be the patents ?.. IMO, No..
Are we as consumers being too hard on LG as a company when the blame may lie with the faceless Beaurocrats?
What do you guys think
We should be hard on LG. It's their branded phones.
For clarity the reason for the disparity across the world is due to the networks depicting what they believe their customers will buy and at what price. For example if LG said it could provide a quad dac for an extra £5 per phone the network buyers may not believe that's necessary to include, thereby maximising profits. The networks are LG customers , not you.
I'm not letting LG off the hook. Pressure needs to be applied from every angle to make the networks and LG realise it is not acceptable to hav such disparity where the feature difference is noticeable.
No, no good trying to blame the EU for this (honestly, this isn't the Daily Mail! ). There's no regulatory impediment to a better DAC or wireless charging, and anyway how would Brussels stop the Americans getting the DAC, or indeed stop the Asians getting wireless charging? And you forgot that Asian models get 64GB storage whereas the rest of the world gets 32GB.
No, LG made the decisions on a financial basis. Whether they took feedback from carriers or did their own market research (which is what they told me when I contacted them about this), in the end it was just a business decision on their part.
I contacted them the day that the phone was announced and told them that their regional specifications policy had cost them my custom. I figured that one person buying it or not is invisible to them, but if enough people told them it was stupid and that they would have sold more without it they might learn for next time.
After starting this thread, then reading your replies.. I did a little digging to check my facts and I was saddend to learn that, yes.. this is LG doing so-called market research on what the "networks" want and sadly, all 3 regions have been scr*wed over.. but to give the EU the version that has NONE of the added features (No 64GB/Wireless, or DAC) or the "V 10 / 20 and probably not the 30" is a really stupid move.. I dont know who does LGs research, but they should be fired.. Yet they give us waterproofing which scr*ws call quality and Audiio..
And they wonder why Samsung do so well..
Whatever the reason or whoever is to blame, LG need to realise they are the back marker/the underdog. They need to come out with a headliner that appeals to mainstream AND more hardcore users.
Confusing matters like this will just keep the momentum with Samsung.
No, it's because LG do "market research" and decide what each region wants and a cost/benefit analysis. That's all. Same as their decision not to release the V20 in EU, simply they thought it wouldn't sell.
Ofc it is "LG's fault".
I'm in the UK and I would like 64GB, wireless charging and a quad DAC. But LG decided not to make them available.
So yeah it's "LG's fault".
Market research my arse.
B3501 said:
No, it's because LG do "market research" and decide what each region wants and a cost/benefit analysis. That's all. Same as their decision not to release the V20 in EU, simply they thought it wouldn't sell.
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Then in my opinion they got their analysis compelety wrong.
Ok the S8 is more expensive on contract but imagine the smile on the salesman when he justifies that expense on wireless charging and larger storage. It'll be easy for him.
G6 will just get swept aside which is a shame as I think my G5 is great anf was looking forward to this one.
Maybe they will reanalyse for the G7 ?
WhiteHartMart said:
Then in my opinion they got their analysis compelety wrong.
Ok the S8 is more expensive on contract but imagine the smile on the salesman when he justifies that expense on wireless charging and larger storage. It'll be easy for him.
G6 will just get swept aside which is a shame as I think my G5 is great anf was looking forward to this one.
Maybe they will reanalyse for the G7
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I have 4 flagship phones, the S8+. Huawei P10 Plus, LG G6 and iPhone 7 Plus. I will be ditching the S8+. Whilst it has lots of positives, its just not as nice to use as the G6, nor is it camera as useful or as good at in many areas as the G6.
gavinfabl said:
I have 4 flagship phones, the S8+. Huawei P10 Plus, LG G6 and iPhone 7 Plus. I will be ditching the S8+. Whilst it has lots of positives, its just not as nice to use as the G6, nor is it camera as useful or as good at in many areas as the G6.
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Yea, I remember you saying you felt the G6 was v good (I'm the guy across the brisge from you that had that Twitter conversation ? )
Just no way I'll get the UK version. Its still expensive and I would hate knowing I had a 'dumbed down' version.
I'd rather not import just yet either. But never say never ?
WhiteHartMart said:
Yea, I remember you saying you felt the G6 was v good (I'm the guy across the brisge from you that had that Twitter conversation )
Just no way I'll get the UK version. Its still expensive and I would hate knowing I had a 'dumbed down' version.
I'd rather not import just yet either. But never say never
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I think it's £490 on Three UK with a £10 top up. A bit more realistic.
And hi again
gavinfabl said:
I think it's £490 on Three UK with a £10 top up. A bit more realistic.
And hi again
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Yea saw that deal on HotUKDeals. Think it turned out to be an error in some stores putting the G6 on show at G5 prices.
Pretty sure its back to £600+ now.
£600+ for the G6 is just a crazy, crazy price. Also, for the amount of time it took to release it they could have had an SD835 in it! Perhaps they'll release a V2 with an 835 but some of LGs decisions with phones are insane. They're shooting themselves completely in the foot.
£564 on Tesco Mobile.
Hoping to have it tomorrow Saturday, Monday at the latest.
As the major UK carriers are only selling the black version so they don't have enough confidence to sell the other colours. Only CPW stock all three. I'm not convinced this decision is one by market research as suggested. My own view is that LG rushed the release in the UK knowing that the S8 was comming out only 2 weeks later. Poor marketing really.
I cannot understand why any flagship wouldn't have wireless charging these days as it's becoming more common. Coming from the last few Samsung phones I owned this was a massive loss. The only conclusion is LG don't see this phone lasting.
On the DAC point I chuckled at others view on the sound quality on the S7 as I also found it poor. I think the sound quality is much better on my G6.
If anyone has an EE firmware version could they post the firmware download link?
Iamnorthener said:
As the major UK carriers are only selling the black version so they don't have enough confidence to sell the other colours. Only CPW stock all three. I'm not convinced this decision is one by market research as suggested. My own view is that LG rushed the release in the UK knowing that the S8 was comming out only 2 weeks later. Poor marketing really.
I cannot understand why any flagship wouldn't have wireless charging these days as it's becoming more common. Coming from the last few Samsung phones I owned this was a massive loss. The only conclusion is LG don't see this phone lasting.
On the DAC point I chuckled at others view on the sound quality on the S7 as I also found it poor. I think the sound quality is much better on my G6.
If anyone has an EE firmware version could they post the firmware download link?
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CPW has an early exclusive on the colours. They seem to do this quite a bit as well as getting the phones earlier than other online retailers. Frustrating. Personally I have the white which I like a lot.
rubiicon59 said:
£564 on Tesco Mobile.
Hoping to have it tomorrow Saturday, Monday at the latest.
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Where did you find that price? It's £629 for me. Also are Tesco Mobile's phones unlocked?
DVC1985 said:
Where did you find that price? It's £629 for me. Also are Tesco Mobile's phones unlocked?
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£564 is what I'll be paying for the phone over 24 months.
Ive been with Tesco Mobile for several years so I just logged in to my account and that was the price that was quoted. And yes it's unlocked, all my phones from Tesco have been network free with no crappy bloatware.
I picked it up in store this afternoon and an hour later I had swapped it for a 1 week old V20, LG folio case (both as new) and £150 cash
My experience with the G6 was very brief but I decided after 5 minutes it wasn't for me. It's a gorgeous phone but the biggest fingerprint magnet I've ever had.
I'm already impressed with the V20 (H990ds Korean model) so I'll be posting my thoughts in the V20 forum.
LG did **** up the UK release of the G6, but not by rushing it, instead by delaying it.
LG had a window of opportunity of just under a month from when they announced the G6 to get it on the shelves, or at least on pre-order, before Samsung announced the S8. They must have known that Samsung would open up pre-order orders immediately, and probably that Samsung would ensure that every phone shop nationwide had S8s on display the day after announcing it; yet LG didn't even announce the UK availability date until a week before Samsung put actual retail S8s in actual customer's hands.
If they'd capitalised on that month lead they had, the G6 would be selling way better, despite the exclusion of its best features.
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It doesn't even has a notification led .