Related
On the V10 in order to have the DAC in permanent high impedance mode you simply modified the Mixer-Path.xml. I look for that file in the V20 system dump and couldn't find it. I was wondering if one or some of the great minds here at xda could search the system dump to locate the V20 Mixer-Path.xml or find a file that if modified would provide the same results when we get root. Thanks on advanced.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
i don't seem to have an issue with high impedance headphones, i have a pair of Sony xba-h1 that have a ridiculous (for earbuds) 40 ohm impedance and they work wonderfuly. is there a reason you're trying to force it into high impedance mode?
nyterage said:
i don't seem to have an issue with high impedance headphones, i have a pair of Sony xba-h1 that have a ridiculous (for earbuds) 40 ohm impedance and they work wonderfuly. is there a reason you're trying to force it into high impedance mode?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I want to use the full power of the amp on my low impedance rha ma750. I don't have to crank the volume as high and the sound is richer and crisper. [emoji2]
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Would it be safe to use the high impedance mode for headphones which are not high impedance? My Bose headphones trigger the mode naturally but I wonder for my other headphones.
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
Until you find a software workaround, plug a splitter into the phone first. Then plug your device of choice into the other end of the splitter. This tricks the DAC into going into high-impedance mode.
prinzhernan said:
Would it be safe to use the high impedance mode for headphones which are not high impedance? My Bose headphones trigger the mode naturally but I wonder for my other headphones.
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lot of factors go in to that. The risk is up to the people who try it.
Nihonno said:
Until you find a software workaround, plug a splitter into the phone first. Then plug your device of choice into the other end of the splitter. This tricks the DAC into going into high-impedance mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is aux mode not high impedance mode. You have normal (low) impedance, then aux mode (mid) impedance then high impedance ( max power). I'm shooting for maximum power. [emoji2]
Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
Bump for this. Id love to see a high impedence mod. If someone could point me in the general direction to start looking on how to create some sort of mod, id love to try and see if i could mess around with it. Not sure how similar LG Nougat vs Samsung Marshmallow is...
There's a good amount of risk in doing that. You're forcing higher voltages normally reserved for drivers with higher resistance. Lower the driver resistance and your current draw on the opamps can hurt the device or fry your low impedance drivers if the gauge wire to the drivers isn't large enough. I don't really see the point in this mod. Any quality DAC is going to be able to drive low impedance hard enough. If your buds aren't loud enough, get better headphones. Just my. $0.02
I force mine into high impedance mode by using an inline sliding volume control, set to minimum when I plug in. It puts 470 ohms in series with my inefficient headphones. Slide it back to full volume after plugging in and I have 1.8V rms high impedance mode.
I too would like a software fix for this.
jagwap said:
I force mine into high impedance mode by using an inline sliding volume control, set to minimum when I plug in. It puts 470 ohms in series with my inefficient headphones. Slide it back to full volume after plugging in and I have 1.8V rms high impedance mode.
I too would like a software fix for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you post a link to what you are using (like on amazon)?
GermanGuy said:
Could you post a link to what you are using (like on amazon)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. I got it in a shop in Hong Kong. If it is an analogue knob or slider then it could work.
jagwap said:
I force mine into high impedance mode by using an inline sliding volume control, set to minimum when I plug in. It puts 470 ohms in series with my inefficient headphones. Slide it back to full volume after plugging in and I have 1.8V rms high impedance mode.
I too would like a software fix for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm good idea
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
I'm pretty damn sure that if LG believed driving the amp at 100% power, even for low impedance headphones, were a good thing, they would have done it.
My SE846 IEMs use the low power mode. They sound fantastic. You are not doing yourself any benefit by trying to trick the amp into a high power mode, especially by using some piece of crap adapter. If anything, that is going to degrade quality.
Nitemare3219 said:
I'm pretty damn sure that if LG believed driving the amp at 100% power, even for low impedance headphones, were a good thing, they would have done it.
My SE846 IEMs use the low power mode. They sound fantastic. You are not doing yourself any benefit by trying to trick the amp into a high power mode, especially by using some piece of crap adapter. If anything, that is going to degrade quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure why these guys are trying it, considering the promotion comes with $150.00 earphones.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Nitemare3219 said:
I'm pretty damn sure that if LG believed driving the amp at 100% power, even for low impedance headphones, were a good thing, they would have done it.
My SE846 IEMs use the low power mode. They sound fantastic. You are not doing yourself any benefit by trying to trick the amp into a high power mode, especially by using some piece of crap adapter. If anything, that is going to degrade quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but your SE846 are sensitive. Other headphones may not be. My Sine headphones need nearly x10 the voltage to reach the same volume. Portable headphone with this low sensitively and low impedance are rare, so LG did not cater for it. But they did allow for it with high impedance headphones, which are typically less sensitive.
jagwap said:
Yes, but your SE846 are sensitive. Other headphones may not be. My Sine headphones need nearly x10 the voltage to reach the same volume. Portable headphone with this low sensitively and low impedance are rare, so LG did not cater for it. But they did allow for it with high impedance headphones, which are typically less sensitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The high impedance mode says it activates at 50 ohms and above. Unless your headphones are above 50 ohms, and somehow not activating it, you're wasting your time.
Nitemare3219 said:
I'm pretty damn sure that if LG believed driving the amp at 100% power, even for low impedance headphones, were a good thing, they would have done it.
My SE846 IEMs use the low power mode. They sound fantastic. You are not doing yourself any benefit by trying to trick the amp into a high power mode, especially by using some piece of crap adapter. If anything, that is going to degrade quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nitemare3219 said:
The high impedance mode says it activates at 50 ohms and above. Unless your headphones are above 50 ohms, and somehow not activating it, you're wasting your time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really not. They are 24 ohms and I get the power I need in high impedance mode.
I thought they were 18 ohms?
mrwinkle13 said:
On the V10 in order to have the DAC in permanent high impedance mode you simply modified the Mixer-Path.xml. I look for that file in the V20 system dump and couldn't find it. I was wondering if one or some of the great minds here at xda could search the system dump to locate the V20 Mixer-Path.xml or find a file that if modified would provide the same results when we get root. Thanks on advanced.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/system/etc/mixer_paths_tasha.xml try there.
What is the mod please? I want to add it to my ROM
I got my LG V30 this week but I can't tell the difference between dac on or off. I've used Tidal on Hifi mode, streaming a 24/192 from the NAS using Shure se846 earbuds. When I toggle DAC on/off and don't look, I can't honestly tell the difference even at high volume. I would expect the dac on to be louder?
It sounds nice but compared it to my old Galaxy S7 no major difference.
Can you audibly tell when dac is on or off? Is there any way to get diagnostics or geek stats to see if something is wrong?
GJ
gjvdkamp said:
I got my LG V30 this week but I can't tell the difference between dac on or off. I've used Tidal on Hifi mode, streaming a 24/192 from the NAS using Shure se846 earbuds. When I toggle DAC on/off and don't look, I can't honestly tell the difference even at high volume. I would expect the dac on to be louder?
It sounds nice but compared it to my old Galaxy S7 no major difference.
Can you audibly tell when dac is on or off? Is there any way to get diagnostics or geek stats to see if something is wrong?
GJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, LG V30plus. To me, with or without DAC, almost same quality, using tidal hifi, lg music player, spotify. I can say that on S7 the bass was more present, using the right setup and a pair of Soundmagic E10. I am little bit disappointed but maybe we are rookies in using the right setup or headphones. I have the BO-s that were in the box with the phone. and the volume is way too weak.
I've got my V30 for a week now. First time I listened with pretty decent (low impedance) in-ears I had the same impression as you. DAC on sounded even worse than off. Second time I did an A/B comparison against an Oppo find 7 which is no slouch in sound output, and everything was fine. DAC on was better then off and my V30 was on par with the Oppo. Today I was in the mood for some music, and DAC on is again bad.
I have no idea what is going on, besides a bad manufactured V30. Or being a rookie
@gjvdkamp
Shure SE846 has a 9 Ohm impedance only. To trigger the Dac you have to use a >50 ohm one.
@all
You can easy check the Dac with
Hi-Fi Status (LG) app. This app is currently for free on Google Store.
Montechristo said:
@gjvdkamp
Shure SE846 has a 9 Ohm impedance only. To trigger the Dac you have to use a >50 ohm one.
@all
You can easy check the Dac with
Hi-Fi Status (LG) app. This app is currently for free on Google Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Fi Dac works with < 50ohm device, the High Impedance mode needs > 50ohm.
You can trigger the Quad Dac in the quick menu or hold the icon for more options.
The Hi-Fi DAC is not amperage dependent. It's either enabled or off when you insert a headset or device into the 3.5 jack. Of course, first time, you will have to activate the Hi-Fi DAC on the main drop down menu, and you can always turn it on or off when a headset is connected. Amp section should automatically determine what type of amperage device is connected to the V30 and adjust high impedance mode accordingly. Or, you can force a higher impedance mode with an inline connector if you prefer.
I don't like the built-in speaker quality and volume. Can I improve the quality with applications like Viper4android or ARISE?
karizma4yazar said:
I don't like the built-in speaker quality and volume. Can I improve the quality with applications like Viper4android or ARISE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get a little more volume, but not without the cost of increased distortion. However, you can enable stereo mod, and you will get more bass, because the top speaker has a deeper low end, and of course the total loudness will be increased.
adsubzero said:
You can get a little more volume, but not without the cost of increased distortion. However, you can enable stereo mod, and you will get more bass, because the top speaker has a deeper low end, and of course the total loudness will be increased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a way to install dolby atmos? Like the Galaxy s9.
karizma4yazar said:
Is there a way to install dolby atmos? Like the Galaxy s9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure, there probably is, but it's nothing magical that you can't do with v4a.
karizma4yazar said:
Is there a way to install dolby atmos? Like the Galaxy s9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a host of audio "improvements" if you're rooted with Magisk. Check out the app or the threads here on XDA
karizma4yazar said:
I don't like the built-in speaker quality and volume. Can I improve the quality with applications like Viper4android or ARISE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arise is bloated junk. The stuff the Arise team added never worked. UltraM8 proved this himself. The V4A will disable the quad dac.
karizma4yazar said:
Is there a way to install dolby atmos? Like the s9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most Dolby Atmos ports don't actually work. There was 1 guy who used to be able to port it. Only 1 guy. Also that port did not work 100% either.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
The V4A will disable the quad dac.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe this is untrue, and nevertheless, he wants to use it to tweak the loudspeaker, so it's unrelated to the quad dac.
adsubzero said:
I believe this is untrue, and nevertheless, he wants to use it to tweak the loudspeaker, so it's unrelated to the quad dac.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't believe it, that's your choice. Many threads on XDA that backs this statement up. UltraM8 for instance backs this up. His mod is also not 100% working with the quad dac. He SAID this when I questioned him on this. It's also in his first post.
"he wants to use it to tweak the loudspeaker, so it's unrelated to the quad dac"
This IS related to the quad dac since you can enable it for headphones.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
This IS related to the quad dac since you can enable it for headphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He did not mention using it for headphones, he wants to tweak the loudspeaker...
The quad DAC in the V30 only gets called into action when there's an output device (headphones/earbuds/IEM/line-out cable/etc) attached to the headphone jack. It's possible using a USB adapter to get the quad DAC output pushed through the USB-C connector as well (from my understanding of it), but the internal speaker(s) in the V30 don't ever get output from that quad DAC.
The internal speaker(s) are powered off the Qualcomm DAC in the 835 SoC so there is going to be a limitation on what you'll be able to do, probably the best anyone can hope for it dropping the mid-range and highs a bit and adding a bit more bass but we're not talking about frequencies lower than about 80 Hz 'cause those little drivers just can't do it.
The internal speaker(s) are what they area, and nothing is really going to improve upon that. I will say my V20 had substantially louder output overall (I don't muck with the audio levels like I used to with edits to the mixer_paths.xml file) and it had a lot more low end aka bass response as well. I have no idea why the V30 is worse in that respect, but for me I use headphones or my Monoprice 9927 IEMs for listening anyway about 98% of the time. Sure I do have my phone on sometimes at home and listen to things but I have a pretty awesome little Omaker Bluetooth speaker I can feed the audio to and get the bass if I want it.
Hello guys
I have ordered impedance adapter from ebay the one @ChazzMatt have mentioned at many posts
Before using that i wanted to ask that will it work fine with custom mixer path tavils file that is included in anxiousv30 which provides dual speaker and volume boost
or will i have to restore the original mixer path tavil stock file
also can i use impedance adapter with aux cables in car or not ? i mean its safe or not ?
Ali1228 said:
Hello guys
I have ordered impedance adapter from ebay the one @ChazzMatt have mentioned at many posts
Before using that i wanted to ask that will it work fine with custom mixer path tavils file that is included in anxiousv30 which provides dual speaker and volume boost
or will i have to restore the original mixer path tavil stock file
also can i use impedance adapter with aux cables in car or not ? i mean its safe or not ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really don't need High Impedance.
Also don't use the adapter with AUX cables. I'm honestly trying to figure out why anybody would do that in the first place.
Edit, when plugging in the AUX cables, the device will go into AUX mode.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
The V30 in aux mode outputs the same level at max volume as my desktop Teac UD-301 DAC. You do not need more.
The whole boosting to high impedance mode is foolishness.
There are some headphones that need the 2 Vrms power of HIM vs the 1 Vrms of Aux mode. Planar magnetics in particular require a lot juice.
Playing at a lower volume level in HIM as opposed to at max volume in Normal or Aux mode may also slightly affect SnR, although we haven't been able to measure that objectively.
But I agree that going through hoops to force HIM with high sensitivity IEMs, only to turn volume way down is, well... :cyclops:
There is a persistent myth, going back to the V10, that HIM is needed to (fully) activate the ESS DAC, and that's what drives it.
TheDannemand said:
Playing at a lower volume level in HIM as opposed to at max volume in Normal or Aux mode may also slightly affect SnR, although we haven't been able to measure that objectively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He was asking for his AUX cables for his car.
TheDannemand said:
There is a persistent myth, going back to the V10, that HIM is needed to (fully) activate the ESS DAC, and that's what drives it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured out why not to long ago.
LG is marketing high impedance as pure HiFi without mentioning the type of headgear that is giving high impedance. It's just marketing gimmick. Sure, full sized cans will give better sound while also going over 50 ohms. It would have been awesome if LG actually explained what they meant by having a better experience on high impedance.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
He was asking for his AUX cables for his car.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I wasn't so much responding to that. I was merely pointing out that, while most of the HIM chasing is indeed unnecessary, there are a few cases where the extra power is needed, and where HIM is not triggered automatically.
TheDannemand said:
Yes. I wasn't so much responding to that. I was merely pointing out that, while most of the HIM chasing is indeed unnecessary, there are a few cases where the extra power is needed, and where HIM is not triggered automatically.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I agree man!
I also did a test on my 30 ohms IEM. Used an adapter to trigger high impedance. Talk about degrading audio quality.
All the people chasing high impedance is from misinformation. However as you always point out, some gear needs it though.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
Ok so i currently own a pair of kz zs10 which have 32ohm impedance so i guess using adapter with them is going to be worth it or not?
Ali1228 said:
Ok so i currently own a pair of kz zs10 which have 32ohm impedance so i guess using adapter with them is going to be worth it or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used it with high quality 35ohm earbuds, but then later after rooting, I used Anxious V30 module to get forced HIM. So, I no longer need to use impedance adapter to force HIM.
This quad DAC will try to give you the best sound, depending on what you have connected to it. So, that's why some say you don't need the impedance adapters.
But the impedance adapters are just to do what the Anxious V30 module does (force HIM or the equivalent) or whiskeyomega's audio mods. If people don't want to do that, they don't have to.
Ali1228 said:
Ok so i currently own a pair of kz zs10 which have 32ohm impedance so i guess using adapter with them is going to be worth it or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noooooooo
The distortion is horrendous! Mostly I guess due to the BA. You don't want Anxious mod either. You can possibly kill the IEM's. I would HIGHLY recommend not using a mod. You don't need forced HIM with the KZ.
Also grab this
US $11.69 83%OFF | HiFiHear 16 Core Silver Plated Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balanced Cable With MMCX/2pin Connector For LZ A5 HQ5 HQ6 ZS10 ZS6 AS10 ED16
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bqsuUCD2
You will thank me later. Trust me on this.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
---------- Post added at 08:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------
Ali1228 said:
Ok so i currently own a pair of kz zs10 which have 32ohm impedance so i guess using adapter with them is going to be worth it or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also take a look here,
https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-v30/accessories/budget-earbuds-dac-t3714785/page8
I showed SS of the 3rd party cable I bought for my CCA C10. They can also be used with the KZ ZS10 Pro.
However, I have another cable on the way just for the KZ.
US $15.55 35%OFF | Yinyoo 16 Core High Purity Silver Plated Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4MM With MMCX/2PIN/QDC Connector For ZS10 Pro AS10 AS16 AS12 ZSN PRO
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dUKjdzX2
Obviously you have a choice of whatever color you want. This particular color is out of an aesthetic choice. The cable is for audio. I also noticed I set the volume down lower with the cable. You do get a bit of volume boost . If you find the volume not loud enough, it's because of stock cable.
This really does help the KZ and CCA sound better. I've tried every genre of sound. 3+ hours going between songs and cables and both IEM'S. So it's not placebo.
I can always host high rez files that I used. Just pm me if you want some good examples.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
ChazzMatt said:
I used it with high quality 35ohm earbuds, but then later after rooting, I used Anxious V30 module to get forced HIM. So, I no longer need to use impedance adapter to force HIM.
This quad DAC will try to give you the best sound, depending on what you have connected to it. So, that's why some say you don't need the impedance adapters.
But the impedance adapters are just to do what the Anxious V30 module does (force HIM or the equivalent) or whiskeyomega's audio mods. If people don't want to do that, they don't have to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My doubts are, can i root my V30Plus even after Pie update? is it possible.
And also can i update Lib files for DTS?
P.K.Shivaram said:
My doubts are, can i root my V30Plus even after Pie update? is it possible.
And also can i update Lib files for DTS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All V30 variants can be rooted.
ROOT Your LG V30!
https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-v30/how-to/root-v30-t3927154
The Root Sticky specifically talks about DTS. . Bottom of post #1.
I use my phone with 16Ω, 32Ω and 60Ω IEMs/Headphones and I don't care about impedance mode. Sound quality is the same whatever mode you're in, it just gives more power/volume that's it.
If you feel that your headphones are underpowered even at max volume, that's when you should think about these hacks. In most cases it's useless and not recommended.
Poweramp can give 24bit output, but when Viper is activated then it's always 16bit. I have tried 24/32bit .irs files too, but no luck.
DooMLoRD77 said:
Poweramp can give 24bit output, but when Viper is activated then it's always 16bit. I have tried 24/32bit .irs files too, but no luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you use V4A with LG? Makes no sense. It's 16bit due to the fact you aren't using the quad dac. The drivers for V4A are closed source. While the app may get updated, the drivers never will.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
Why would you use V4A with LG? Makes no sense. It's 16bit due to the fact you aren't using the quad dac. The drivers for V4A are closed source. While the app may get updated, the drivers never will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.
With Viper you're making the onboard Snapdragon 835 DAC sound differently, not the already excellent V30 Quad DAC.
BROKEN1981 said:
Why would you use V4A with LG? Makes no sense. It's 16bit due to the fact you aren't using the quad dac. The drivers for V4A are closed source. While the app may get updated, the drivers never will.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would use convolver in Viper which makes my earphones sound more natural. Although It uses the quad dac the same way as Poweramp and it's 16bit because it is the preferred sample rate by Viper. So it's not possible to increase it . Anyway, thank you!
ChazzMatt said:
Right.
With Viper you're making the onboard Snapdragon 835 DAC sound differently, not the already excellent V30 Quad DAC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It actually sounds exactly the same when Viper is active. The specific EQ (convolver) is the only reason I would use it.
DooMLoRD77 said:
Although It uses the quad dac the same way as Poweramp and it's 16bit because it is the preferred sample rate by Viper. So it's not possible to increase it . Anyway, thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not true. V4A DOESN'T use the quad dac. 16bit is NOT the preferred rate. The driver is 16bit and that will never change. The dev of V4A left before any other bit rate became a thing on Android. The dev never responded to request for the code.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
This is not true. V4A DOESN'T use the quad dac. 16bit is NOT the preferred rate. The driver is 16bit and that will never change. The dev of V4A left before any other bit rate became a thing on Android. The dev never responded to request for the code.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't notice any difference with Viper, but OK I get it. So it's bypassing the LG quad dac function. I won't use Viper, I want 24bit to avoid losses from digital volume controlling. Thanks the help!
DooMLoRD77 said:
I can't notice any difference with Viper, but OK I get it. So it's bypassing the LG quad dac function. I won't use Viper, I want 24bit to avoid losses from digital volume controlling. Thanks the help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-v30/themes/magisk-bring-24-bit-output-aosp-pie-t3900863
Our ES9218p (Quad DAC) has an integrated amplifier (so-called OpAmp) using Analog Volume Control (AVC). You're not losing any resolution due to digital volume control, as long as you use a player app that knows how to play bit-perfect: Such apps will send all bits straight to the DAC (essentially keeping digital volume at max) and leave volume control to the DAC. When you turn volume up/down with the volume keys (or the Hi-Fi Quad DAC settings page) you're controlling that analog amp.
The moment you add EQ or DTS or other digital processing you already lose bit perfect. But as long as the app doesn't use digital volume control (keeps it at max) at least you will still have the full resolution during and after that processing.
You should be more concerned about the upsamling done by the Android Mixer when playing 16/44 music (anything CD quality, whether compressed or not). See this for details.
All player apps (including LG Music) will suffer this up-sampling unless they specifically work around it. UAPP and Neutron work around it by converting 16/44 to 24/44 on the fly. PowerAmp CAN work around it if you configure it to re-sample 16/44 to 24/44 -- but you then have to change that setting when playing HiRes music (anything 24-bit or higher than 44.1KHz) so it isn't down-sampled to 24/44.
HiRes music generally plays correctly from most apps (not re-sampled) unless they specifically mess it up (which is the case with Qobuz last I heard) or they deliberately re-sample it (like Amazon HD Music which re-samples everything to 48KHz on Android devices).
I never used Viper4Android. I don't see how it can cause audio to bypass the Quad DAC (when Quad DAC is enabled) but I'm not ruling it out. And certainly there is no way Viper4Android can understand or take advantage of the Quad DAC given how old it is.
TheDannemand said:
The moment you add EQ or DTS or other digital processing you already lose bit perfect. But as long as the app doesn't use digital volume control (keeps it at max) at least you will still have the full resolution during and after that processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DTS no longer works in pie for PowerAmp. I don't know why. When I need to unwind, I would sip on vodka straight on the rocks. Put on PowerAmp, turn on DTS wide setting and listen to Pink Floyd.
TheDannemand said:
I never used Viper4Android. I don't see how it can cause audio to bypass the Quad DAC (when Quad DAC is enabled) but I'm not ruling it out. And certainly there is no way Viper4Android can understand or take advantage of the Quad DAC given how old it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Few devs who did audio mods said this back in the V20 days.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
Edit, I'm sure @ChazzMatt can find it. He can find anything. LMFAO
BROKEN1981 said:
DTS no longer works in pie for PowerAmp. I don't know why. When I need to unwind, I would sip on vodka straight on the rocks. Put on PowerAmp, turn on DTS wide setting and listen to Pink Floyd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL thank you for that image :laugh:
BROKEN1981 said:
Few devs who did audio mods said this back in the V20 days.
Edit, I'm sure @ChazzMatt can find it. He can find anything. LMFAO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need, I believe you. I just don't know how it is possible to avoid the Quad DAC when it's enabled. As in *I* don't know how, not that it isn't possible :cyclops:
TheDannemand said:
Our ES9218p (Quad DAC) has an integrated amplifier (so-called OpAmp) using Analog Volume Control (AVC). You're not losing any resolution due to digital volume control, as long as you use a player app that knows how to play bit-perfect: Such apps will send all bits straight to the DAC (essentially keeping digital volume at max) and leave volume control to the DAC. When you turn volume up/down with the volume keys (or the Hi-Fi Quad DAC settings page) you're controlling that analog amp.
The moment you add EQ or DTS or other digital processing you already lose bit perfect. But as long as the app doesn't use digital volume control (keeps it at max) at least you will still have the full resolution during and after that processing.
You should be more concerned about the upsamling done by the Android Mixer when playing 16/44 music (anything CD quality, whether compressed or not). See this for details.
All player apps (including LG Music) will suffer this up-sampling unless they specifically work around it. UAPP and Neutron work around it by converting 16/44 to 24/44 on the fly. PowerAmp CAN work around it if you configure it to re-sample 16/44 to 24/44 -- but you then have to change that setting when playing HiRes music (anything 24-bit or higher than 44.1KHz) so it isn't down-sampled to 24/44.
HiRes music generally plays correctly from most apps (not re-sampled) unless they specifically mess it up (which is the case with Qobuz last I heard) or they deliberately re-sample it (like Amazon HD Music which re-samples everything to 48KHz on Android devices).
I never used Viper4Android. I don't see how it can cause audio to bypass the Quad DAC (when Quad DAC is enabled) but I'm not ruling it out. And certainly there is no way Viper4Android can understand or take advantage of the Quad DAC given how old it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. When I set to 16bit in poweramp then I hear noise at the end of some tracks when the volume slowly decreases in the song. That's happens also with LG music app. But when I choose 24bit in poweramp then the noise disappears and I hear more details. This noise can be noticed at enough low volume. So is this means that poweramp and LG music uses DVC and not letting the DAC to do the job?
As for the interpolation I don't care, I don't have high sensitivity device and poweramp gives fix 24/44.1.
DooMLoRD77 said:
That's interesting. When I set to 16bit in poweramp then I hear noise at the end of some tracks when the volume slowly decreases in the song. That's happens also with LG music app. But when I choose 24bit in poweramp then the noise disappears and I hear more details. This noise can be noticed at enough low volume. So is this means that poweramp and LG music uses DVC and not letting the DAC to do the job?
As for the interpolation I don't care, I don't have high sensitivity device and poweramp gives fix 24/44.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LG Music doesn't use DVC. From what I can tell, it plays everything correctly, including HiRes, so long as you keep effects and EQ disabled. Its only problem is that it doesn't bypass the Mixer on 16/44.
And I can almost guarantee that you DO care about the interpolation: That noise you hear at low amplitude (volume) levels is typical of the upsampling performed by the Android Mixer. Once you configure PowerAmp to output as 24-bit, AudioFlinger will use the DIRECT path instead of the MIXER path, which will bypass the Mixer and send music straight to the DAC, without upsampling. That's why the noise goes away when you select 24-bit, not because of DVC bit-loss at 16-bit.
DooMLoRD77 said:
snip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol no need to quote the entire post
TheDannemand said:
snip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is aimed at you and the op.
From the V20 to the V30 on 7, 8 and now 9.0, people have complained about hissing. I always thought it was audio mods but I'm sure DooM isn't using any.
I don't see how, but maybe a dirty connection? Or possibly the headphones? Damaged speaker?
I've used the stock app with DTS. No hissing. Tho kinda sounds bad. Something really changed with 9.0.
Even with DTS off, no hissing and the music sounds good.
PowerAmp, no hissing, can't use DTS. UAPP, no hissing.
@DooMLoRD77, do you have a different pair of headphones?
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
TheDannemand said:
quote
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't actually hearing the interpolation noise, however It was because of dithering was turned off by default. When I apply any kind of dithering then noise disappears on 16bit. 24 bit doesn't require dithering as I hear. So I found the solution and it's good to learn new stuffs, thanks. Although I don't get it why it happens. The dithering should add noise to reduce distorsion as I think.
BROKEN1981 said:
quote
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good I just learned how to reply.
I tested it with my budget MH1C and the hissing was just a very small amount apparently due to turned off dithering as I wrote above. It now sounds fine Plus that DTS seems also bad to me, it's kinda aggressive.
....
DooMLoRD77 said:
I wasn't actually hearing the interpolation noise, however It was because of dithering was turned off by default. When I apply any kind of dithering then noise disappears on 16bit. 24 bit doesn't require dithering as I hear. So I found the solution and it's good to learn new stuffs, thanks. Although I don't get it why it happens. The dithering should add noise to reduce distorsion as I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you know it isn't the upsampling that's causing the noise? Your description fits exactly the symptoms of it. Particularly if it goes away when you switch to 24-bit output.
It doesn't make sense that you need to turn on dithering or otherwise process the audio source in order to avoid noise: The ESS DAC has incredibly low noise levels, and as long as the source is left unprocessed and played through the DIRECT path, you should be hearing nothing but black background. Of course assuming a clean recording. (Some of my best recordings are old analog ones, but of course they have noise.)
I apologize for being pushy about this, but I keep seeing myths surrounding this Quad DAC, and users focusing on things that aren't problems while overlooking the real problems that actually exist.
I'll leave you to it
@BROKEN1981: I want to make sure I understand you correctly: Are you saying you experienced hissing on both V20 and V30, but once you got Pie, it went away?
That's interesting (if I understand you correctly). I wonder if LG fixed the re-sampling in their later Pie releases after all: Long before Pie came out on any LG phones I had a bet with csglinux (over on head-fi) where I optimistically/naively said I had a feeling they might address it in Pie, and he thought they wouldn't. Of course when Pie finally came (to his V40 at first) the problems had turned even worse, now with both up-sampling and down-sampling, and a bunch of other issues too. Took much work by Davy to fix UAPP, and I understand the same with Neutron.
I am now tempted to upgrade my H932 after all just to test this. But first I need confirmation that lafsploit isn't broken when rolling back from Pie (I think you saw this over in the H932 root thread.)
But like you mentioned, most of the reports of hissing in the past seemed to traceable back to audio mods or EQ or other processing by player apps. With a good DAC like ours and decent IEMs, it doesn't take much messing around with a 16/44 stream before you can hear it.
Edit: Have you done an audio_flinger dump during 16/44 playback since updating to Pie?
You really got me thinking, but I have so much work to do, gotta get this out of my head for now :silly:
@TheDannemand
I got confused with this much testing. I believe what you say and I'm already happy with this thing. Sorry for this unimportant problem I don't know about the real issues. :laugh:
DooMLoRD77 said:
@TheDannemand
I got confused with this much testing. I believe what you say and I'm already happy with this thing. Sorry for this unimportant problem I don't know about the real issues. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough LOL
I didn't mean to be tactless, but I can see how that came across. Actually I DO consider your problem important. Otherwise I wouldn't keep responding to it. And besides, it's your thread!
What I meant was myths such as "you must use 50ohm headphones to activate the DAC", or "music gets better and better as more of the Quad DAC cores are activated", or "up-sampling music to 352KHz in PowerAmp will improve its quality". Just to mention a few.
Truths are (1) the ES9218P is a genuine audiophile DAC which performs the best when NOTHING is done to the source. (2) It CAN drive planars and other hard-to-drive headphones, but sounds blissful too on highly sensitive balanced armatures. (3) It uses multiple DAC units to increase amplification, not to "improve" the music. (4) HIM is NOT required for it to perform optimally.
The "real problem" is the upsampling of 16/44 music, which isn't inherent to the DAC itself, but is a massive oversight in LG's implementation, diminishing sound quality for the vast majority of music played on a phone. While not everybody can hear it (depending on hearing, earphones/headphones used, and the music source) many people CAN, particularly on sensitive IEMs -- including many moderately priced and popular earphones. And since many users don't realize that the hiss/noise they're hearing is re-sampling artifacts, they pursue fixes that further process the music stream, which sometimes may drown out the noise, but also further diminishes sound quality.
This upsampling is by far the biggest problem with LG's Quad DAC from an audiophile perspective.
(I should add that configuring PowerAmp to re-sample to 352KHz actually isn't the worst choice, since it does this without the artifacts of the Android Mixer's 44 > 48KHz upsampling, and it will play the result through the DIRECT path. Of course "re-sampling" 16/44 to 24/44 (just adding the zero bits) is even better, but requires changing every time HiRes music is played to avoid down-sampling it.)
TheDannemand said:
@BROKEN1981: I want to make sure I understand you correctly: Are you saying you experienced hissing on both V20 and V30, but once you got Pie, it went away?
:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not me, I'm just saying I've seen people having issues with hissing going all the way back to the V20. Though I don't know what they were doing. I can count on 1 hand of how many times I've seen it posted.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
---------- Post added at 02:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 AM ----------
DooMLoRD77;80574395 [user=832590 said:
@TheDannemand[/user]
I got confused with this much testing. I believe what you say and I'm already happy with this thing. Sorry for this unimportant problem I don't know about the real issues. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me, you aren't bothering anyone man! @TheDannemand is happy to shed some light on the dac. There is a lot of misinformation on it and I partly blame LG.
When the V20 came out, LG said at 50 ohms or more, the sound gets better.
While this may be correct, it's very misleading. If using something more than 50 ohms, you are probably using cans designed for audiophiles.
There aren't many earphones that hit 50 ohms. I bought a pair of audio-technica's that are 50 ohms earphones. Over $100 as well.
I went to Ali Express, bought CCA C10 earphones that are 30 ohms that blow my audio-technica's out of the water.
Do they hold up to cans? NO! Cans will give the best sound experience while being more than 50 ohms.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs