Related
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
Hey guys,
I really need to rant a little bit now.
This thread is for everyone creating all those "kill ASUS on facebook/twitter/blog sites" threads.
I really understand your angryness about the initial issues with the Prime, but has anyone of you guys ever thought about that you are doing huge damage to both ASUS and yourself with those hate campaigns?
Best example: "Lets spread information about minor software problems all over the web and its major blog sites"
This is ridicioulus guys... Seriously, ASUS really can't fix for example the serialnumber issue within 3 days...
They need to find out what's wrong first. After that they need to fix the problem. After fixing the testing follows.
All this needs time. And spreading rather unprofessional information all around the web won't speed this up at all.
But now to the main part of my rant: the damage being done to us, the owners of the Prime.
Do you guys really think you are doing anything good with those social attacks?
In fact you are driving many people away from the Prime for reasons which are seriously non-issues.
Lets re-think about the issues and ASUS reactions:
GPS issue: ASUS confirmed, that this might be a hardware problem,
it seems they are starting a bonus program for the ones not happy with the GPS (either 6 more months of warranty or a full refund)
This is actually really embarassing for them, but I couldn't think of any better method to solve this issue
(we are talking about realistic methods here, giving you a free TF700 is not realistic)
The Wifi issue: Well actually we do not know much about this.
ASUS told us it's not a hardware issue, rather an issue of specific batches with wrong firmware. We will see in the future what they can do here
The Wifi/BT issue: As several members found out this is a real non-issue. Speed drops appear across all devices and platforms when using BT and Wifi together. Nothing really to complain about here
Random lockups and reboots and unknown serial number issue: ASUS is aware of these problems, already got fixes and is testing these fixes right now.
Nobody else tests fixes with real customers in a public forum. Thats' great!
Now lets talk about that damage I am always talking about:
Here the facts:
Reporting minor software issue (GPS and Wifi aside here) definitely leads to a smaller customer base for the Prime
Major news sites falsely reported the serial number problem as a hardware problem, leading to confused users which do not want to buy this tablet
Smaller userbases always lead to less support, both from the company and also from our own developers.
Less company support means that we will get less often and lower quality updates for our Prime. The device will be abandonned much faster than devices with large customer bases
Less dev support means less innovating new features from our side, less custom ROMs, less custom kernels, in fact the smaller the userbase the faster the Prime development will go dead
Think of the HTC HD2: the ultimate development phone. Its rather big userbase lead to incredible development. They have everything on that phone: Win 6.x, WP 7, Android 2.x and 4.x, real Linux... Smaller userbases ultimately lead to worse device development
I guess it's already too late, the damage being done by you and the major blog sites is irreparable.
Non tech-focused customers who read Engadget won't get a Prime now.
But these non-tech focused guys are the imporatn part of a customer base.
We tech guys here are always a very minor part of a device's customer base.
Ah and by the way: If you buy a product directly after launch, you have to expect those kind of problems.
I haven't seen any product launch in the last years which had not initial problems and issues. No matter if tablet or phones, HTC or Samsung...
ASUS is always one of the first (the first?) major companies, providing support on xda-developers. That is nothing usual for big companies like ASUS.
Give them credit for this move.
I hope someone actually read that text...
I completely agree, thanks for this post. However the problem is it are mostly people who haven't even bought the Prime are *****ing the most.
I couldn't agree more, *****ing about the problem isn't gonna get anything solved. If you have problems try to help, that way things can get fixed more quickly and then everyone (or at least most) can be happy.
read it and agree, there are issues but the support from Asus on this forums is great.
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
Asus threw an unfinishied product on the market.
They can't fix the SN issue in 3 days? Well, I didn't have such issues with my 4 other android devices. Maybe the should have been testing it.
Of course it is embarassing for Asus, but this is clearly not our fault. We fulfilled our part with odering and paying for a tablet. Rest is up to them.
While I agree that a free TF700 or such things would be impossible, the GPS problem is clearly a sign there has be no/not enough testing.
All the problems you are stating would have been showing due to Asus product testing, again. This is completely THEIR fault and they have to deal with it now.
You think we need to stop reporting errors to make the prime look better and they can sell more?
Dude, seriously. Do you buy a brand new car and when you have issues, you just shut up so the store can sell some more?
I'd really love to love my Prime, but with all those obvious mistakes Asus made, I can't.
The problem with what you are doing is: If you support Asus now, other companies will see it's ok to sell faulty products, and the next generation of tablets could have big issues as well.
You need to say what's wrong for anybody to hear. Or would you like to buy a product and then find out later that it's full of bugs? But nobody tould you because it wouldn't be nice for the company?
Do you think Asus will decrease support if less people are bying it?
Again, this wouldn't be nice, but it's completely in the hands of Asus.
It's a big company and they shouldn't have trouble emplyoing a few guys for support. If not, the save money on the wrong thing. Don't make (Non-)Buyers responsible for this.
No matter what other companies do, bringing an untested product to the market is not acceptable and that is the feedback Asus is getting now.
And no, you don't have to expect those "kind of problems".
When I buy a 600€-Tablet, I expect a full working one, and not in 3 months but NOW. I didn't have problems with my Optimus 2x or Iconia A500.
It's a big difference wether the company is fixing issues or improves the quality with updates.
And another point on Asus working with the community: It's nice they are on XDA, but... I remember there was...is... a locked and encrypted bootloader?
Yeah, right. Asus completely locked the Prime and only promised to make an unlock tool after giant social network ****storms.
Is this "working" with the community? Why didn't they look at HTC and provided an unlock tool from the beginning? Asus is only giving in because they are afraid of more bad attention. And that seems to be the only way for the community to be heard.
Just my 2c.
pintness
I think peoples persistence on forums have forced ASUS to look harder at the problem but never the less they are doing something and its a real credit to them that Gary Key is active on our forums now. I think in this modern age ASUS have took a brave step and one that they should be praised for.
We are all upset about the problems but we need to give ASUS fair time to address them. We have all had a rant but now its time to work with ASUS and give them as much information as possible, this is the only way we all get what we want, loyal happy customers and a fantastic product with new and exciting products on the horizon.
Cut them a bit of slack.
Dear Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
pintness said:
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
[...]
Just my 2c.
pintness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
[...]
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You both are not getting my point. Instead of going to the media you should report your errors to ASUS.
No matter how incompetent their customer support is on the phone, the errors will reach the developers anyway.
Nobody told you to praise the Prime. I just said that overpainting the issue won't help anyone. Not even you.
ASUS will fix the software problems. And the GPS issue got kinda resolved too. If you are not happy with it, return it.
I am pretty sure there will be other countries than UK and Taiwan with this move.
And yes you can't fix software errors in that scale in 3 days. Just deal with it. That's how software development works.
Oh and I hope that "Dead Diamondback" was a typo.... Otherwise, get off here troll
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GDI read the ****ing OP's first post. He did not ask you to kiss Asus' feet. He did not ask you to say false POSITIVE things about the Prime. He did not tell you to disregard Asus' mistakes. He simply asked you to vent your frustration and give your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the appropriate recipient: ASUS.
BTW you have my thanks OP.
kaiserpc said:
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, seems I missed that. My german dock works perfectly. What's the issue exactly?
But still, ASUS is a big company, they can't just find, fix, test, and make an announcement in 3 days...
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
GPS issues were rife, cases didn't fit together properly, screens were loose with dust underneath them. Then of course there was the screen bleed, stuck pixels and countless other problems.
I remember it well as I was one of the first people on this forum to receive my DHD and I spent countless hours sitting watching IRC channels for root to be achieved.
Now then after that short history lesson, here is the point of my story. There was a lot of complaining about these issues here on the forum, but what most people did was either accept the fact that this was an early batch and realised that as an early adopter these things are to be expected, or they sent them back. End of story.
There was no smeer campaign, nothing. Just people being adult about the situation and that's that.
Thanks for listening.
Doktaphex said:
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
[...]
Thanks for listening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Agree
I actually agree with everything you said diamondback.
I personally love my prime, but i have a couple of issues here and there. Nothing that wont get fixed in the long run. I have a moan here and there, But i still show my support to a brilliant device.
And another thing i have never seen is a compnay actually showing their dedication to fixing the problems like asus. For god sake people they actually have a rep on here talking to people and providing inside information that actually could help. And again in garys posts people are attacking them there.
I really those people who are attacking asus shoulld either:
1. Suck it up and shut up and wait for a fix
2. Sell there device or take it back for a refund and shut up about it.
I know its not the best path, but you have to give a company some time for actually fix these issues. It doesnt happen over night, they ar'nt robots!
Rant over
---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------
Diamondback said:
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its funny because i have a DHD, i got one of the bad batches and still using it this day. Although HTC's repair team didnt do anything when i sent it back in. 3 days before my warrenty ran out. But that was a GPS issue for me. And im not really that bothered about it to be fair.
I personally love my phone, ive modded it so many times now ive lost count.
Just remember...Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day
But aren't we pushing for double-standards here?
Because it would be a ****storm all around if Apple releases a product that has even a single critical flaw. Such as iPhone 4 antennagate. People pay a lot for Apple for quality, they don't expect such problems and Apple has very, very few issues like that with their product launches.
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
Apple has set the standard, so when we end up paying a lot of money and face this many problems, being publicly critical about it makes sense. Sure you could say that ASUS is small compared to Apple, but if they want to compete with Apple they simply have to do better. If they release a device that is as flawed, it is not just bad for customers, but Android in general. I remember giving excuses to people who used my HTC Desire back in the day that had a multitouch screen that was not multitouch and it was obvious that it is a lesser device. I will feel just as bad when someone tries to use GPS on my Prime and is confused that it doesn't work and so on, because they -expect- the device to function.
Pat on the back and 'better next time' just doesn't cut it, since many of us will be using the device for more than a year. This is not a startup world, ASUS has been in the business for years, they are ambitious with their claims of having created the best tablet, if they cannot live up to it, they deserve the criticism.
They are a big boy and will hopefully do better next time. Market demands it. Otherwise someone else will simply create better devices and wins over the customers that ASUS has. ASUS is unique in that it offers an innovative keyboard dock with Prime, if it becomes popular then competition will increase and I'll gladly jump ship to manufacturer that has a better history with product launches.
Thank you OP for IMHO a needed and well thought out post.
I completely agree with OP post. People that are unsatisfied can easily return device and move on. But no, instead they love to hang around a nag like women with each other. I can tell most polls made here in thisbsection was made to make the Prime look bad. But guess what, it backfired. Most, if not all polls here show in favor of the Prime in a positive light. Don't believe me, just take a look. Of all the people that voted in them, its always 77-85% or more people that are happy with devices, or defect free or etc...
Although the smear campaigns might hurt a little, the ball is already rolling. Even the negative people not going to be able to stop developement. We already have a good number of developers doing alot of great things without bootloader unlocked yet. We have other major developers just waiting to hit the ground running once unlocking tool is available. Its almost surreal sometimes reading the issues some people have. As from 12/22 my device has worked great everyday and have really been enjoying it. Its really sad how some people try to nitpick every single little thing.
If you are unsatisfied with device, do like moderator Jerdog said. Which was get rid of device then, whine somewhere else, AND GO AWAY! Developers not going to want to hear your sob stories. Just imagine once custom roms start being made. Are those same people going to whine all the time after an early build is built n has some issues to be fixed?
Another thing also, some people are plain stupid. They smear n attack Asus for the Prime yet they talk of getting the new A-700. Dumb move. This new device hasn't even been proven tl be better then the Prime and won't be out for 4-5 months at the earliest. People just assume its better because it has a plastic strip across the back. Nothing can be assumed. This hasn't been thouroughly tested or reviewed by major tech sites to say its better. Which a mini test of sorts showed it wasn't, as far as wireless goes. To me. Asus is a great company because I received a great product. If people are to stupid to just return device instead of crying up here online, then that's on them. As they clearly have seen the people that love their devices way outnumber those who don't. sand ususally its the same people always complaining. That's why I've stopped trying to combat them in the threads really. I just report the post or thread, if its unreasonable. This has been working as several complaining threads already have been shut down. Even moderator tired of all the whining.
Just carry your a$$ somewhere else if you don't like your device. Plain n simple!
kristovaher said:
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had NONE of the issues you mentioned. The only thing I can't confirm that works 100% is the GPS since I did not buy this tablet to use as a primary GPS unit! I have a phone that does that and is more PORTABLE since it fits in my pants pocket. Last I tried using the GPS, it locked on my exact location in less than a minute. But really, I didn't really care, I only tested it because of all the damn *****ing on this forum.
So yes, I am a proud owner of a Prime with a "functioning" GPS, STANDARD wifi range, a VIVID screen, operational keyboard dock, no software issues, and updated with ICS.
First, OP, this isn’t just about Asus. What you’re saying in your post is that to protect the image and viability of a product (any product), people should suck up what they’re handed and deal with problems quietly in a way that benefits the manufacturer. That way, the product’s image will be protected. That’s great for current owners looking to reinforce their purchase and to grow the user base, but what about people that haven’t yet purchased the product? Hide defects and issues from them so they can figure it out themselves? If Acer hoses the A700 launch, would you give the same advice to their board? This goes against the principles of XDA.
Back to the Prime. Many of the issues discussed here caused people to say the Prime wasn’t right for them and either returned them or passed. Would you deprive them of that knowledge beforehand to further your personal agenda? Did you sign the “unlock the bootloader” petition? If so, then you’re being somewhat hypocritical.
Manufacturers need to be held accountable for their decisions. In Asus’ case, the choice of a metal back cover, claiming “GPS” when there wasn’t, racing the Prime to market with inadequate testing, and the random QC issues were all self-inflicted. Following your guidance, if this was kept quiet and didn’t impact sales, what incentive would they have going forward to sweat the details and deliver high quality products starting with unit number one?
Any “damage done to the Prime” was done in meeting rooms in Taiwan long before anyone here had a Prime in their hands. And h/w and s/w aside, hopefully Asus learned from this that customers aren’t sheep and willing to accept what they’re given and in the future will provide more frequent, accurate, and consistent communication before and after they launch a product. It’s terrific that after the damage was done Gary Key’s been proactive in cleaning up the mess and Asus offered a six-month warranty extension. Let’s give them an “A” for that. They get an “F” for how they managed the launch, communication, some of their design choices, and initial QC. So, at best, they’ve earned a “C.” If they’re a learning organization, let’s see what they do with the TF700. If it’s a repeat of the Prime, then God help them. And if the TF700 is everything the Prime should have been, that’s what’s going to cause the problems you outlined to happen, not the *****ing.
My friends that bought (and returned) Prime’s are pissed. Anyone trying to get one before the holidays went through flaming hoops and invested a lot of time and energy that they won’t get back via a “refund.” They’ll never purchase an Asus product again and are telling everyone they know about their experience. So even if everyone on XDA follows your advice, the damage will continue long after the postings stop. And it should because that’s what keeps manufacturers in check.
Good Day,
I am starting this thread to provide general updates and information on current or future products. In addition, at times I will address rumors where applicable.
Request-
1. I travel a lot, especially this time of year as there are numerous events. In addition I am also responsible for notebooks, netbooks, desktops, monitors, networking, audio, motherboards and video cards as part of the Technical Marketing umbrella so the majority of time I spend on forums and assisting users has to be segmented and is usually on my personal time. Having a family also interferes with my personal time as do 14-hour flights.
2. As such, when sending Private Messages please include a contact email address and the serial number of the unit. It will greatly assist me in ensuring that return contact is quicker and less obtrusive.
3. In the very near future, there will be additional ASUS technical support on this site and other Android centric sites for our Tablet products. Obviously this is an extremely important service for our valued customers and the direct feedback allows us to further improve the products.
Items- 3/8/2012
1. For users with the WiFi/BT dropout problem we expect additional materials or replacement units in stock at the repair depots by 3/12. We apologize for some of the lengthy waits a few customers had to endure but it will be solved shortly.
2. As to the rumors of a hardware fix for WiFi/BT dropouts, the actual fix is just ensuring that the hardware utilized in current units is performing to tested standards. Basically to ensure this level of compliance we are replacing components within the WiFi subsystem on an as needed basis and then testing the units before shipment.
3. I am still responding to messages sent during my last two events at the end of February and beginning of March. I should be current by the weekend.
4. I will have some exciting news in about two weeks on the TF201.
5. Expect to see a .16 or later release in the near future with further tweaks and updates.
Rumors - 3/8/2012
1. As to various rumors or threads about every unit having a problem, the numbers indicate otherwise as evidenced in the CNET article and an upcoming followup. While not dismissing there have been some problems, the return/repair rates are no greater than other competing products based on current data and are actually lower than several. I am not going to defend us 100% as like with all manufacturers we have areas of improvement.
2. That being said, I want to discuss a certain population of users who complain about multiple unit problems or seem to have every problem that is discussed in a forum.
a. Of these problem repeat users, around 71% (varies on a monthly basis) never responded to direct communication attempts.
b. Of the remaining users (around 30%), we directly assisted 9% of these users and confirmed actual unit problems. Of the remaining 20% or so, we could not verify all of the problems reported (multiple units, service, returns). However, I would like to give two examples that generally mimic a lot of this 20% contact.
2a- User reported in the forums and private messages purchasing and returning 5+ units, all of which had various problems. Actual purchase history indicated only 3 units purchased and for each purchase the user called for an RMA number, was granted an RMA number that day, and yet returned the unit the next day to the retailer and purchased another unit and then cycled the same process for the next two units. This user also has a repeat history of doing this process for other items including notebooks over the past couple of years and then claiming to receive a new product after said complaints. We tracked down one problem unit based on purchase/serial number history and guess what, no problems discovered and in fact the GPS works wonderfully on this unit as I sit here testing it. As to the other two units, we will locate and test those also.
2b - Users posted numerous times about a multitude of problems and yet would not return the unit for an RMA or replacement and instead offered to quit "*****ing" in the forums if we would provide a free unit, replacement unit or upgrade. We still do not know if said user or users actually owns a unit or not. (note - had this situation play out several times with users in this forum and other forums)
2c - Total number of users we tried to assist reporting multiple TF201 problems - 43. I will leave the math up to you.
Also be aware that some companies will instruct personnel to post problems, complain about products or services and generally ensure some type of problem is mentioned numerous times while pimping their own products in forums. In addition, also be aware that legal representation from firms or users looking for a quick handout or settlement might be doing the same. I know several PMs I have received looked exactly like a legal beagle wrote the questions expecting a response that can be used in trial, especially once you run the message through heuristics. Of course, I could be incorrect and those questions were from extremely articulate individuals with product law knowledge that I apologize to for not answering the questions in requested detail.
As I stated before, I am not excusing any problems actually experienced due to a manufacturing defect or service issue. We certainly can and will improve but based on the hard numbers, what I am seeing is in alignment with most electronics and for the "A" users posting here, just do a search for WiFi, Screen bleed or lockup problems at their forum. This launch has been a humbling process in several areas, we fully recognize it and will improve our services and responses as quickly as possible.
At the same time, the amount of effort we expend tracking down false or misleading reports only serves to disrupt services to valued customers. I know this is part of doing business but it does not make it right. Just my personal opinion.
3/9/2012 Update:
General Comments-
1. Thank you to any members contacting me and including their serial number and email address, it really helps as I now receive email notifications directly once a PM is generated. It will cut down on the time required to respond and allow me access to requests regardless of travel or event schedules. I have one last request, please ensure the email address provided is current and working. About 25% of the email addresses provided yesterday bounced back. I think we cleared all of those up by this morning.
2. I will be working with our North American Service and Customer Care group shortly to train individuals to assist in tracking forum problems (product or service), product suggestions and in providing consistent information to our valued customers in this forum and others. Once we roll this out I will make an introduction to the new team members and contact instructions. I will still be available but will concentrate more on product trends and technical aspects of the hardware and software as this is my primary job responsibility. Of course, if you into a roadblock feel free to contact me.
3. Even though I am North American centric, I am still assisting international users at the moment. Hopefully, those users who contacted me over the past two weeks have been contacted by a regional rep today. If not, probably no later than Monday. In the meantime, the same requests I have asked of our Customer Care group for direct forum support in North America has also been requested of our other regions.
4. I apologize for any delays over the past couple of weeks and I should be current by Sunday night.
Product Comments-
1. Speaking of trends, I have noticed a pattern in several messages over the last couple of weeks with people complaining about slight pauses, hitches or browser closures. One item that seems to be a common thread in most of the messages is that the user recently downloaded the Chrome Beta. I will start a separate thread on this after I speak with Google/Nvidia on Monday. However, if you are up for wasting a few minutes and have these symptoms, please uninstall Chrome, reboot, uninstall Flash, reinstall Flash and see if the native browser works any better along with general system responsiveness.
3/20/21012 Update -
1. I will be back to the forums on 3/22/2012.
2. We will have a major ICS update (.19) arriving shortly (might be .20 now).
3. We will have a major announcement on the TF201 in the near future.
4. We will have dedicated forum assistance starting in the near future.
3/22/2012 Update -
1. I am back for the next few days. I will get caught up on messages and updates shortly.
2. The next firmware update is in qualification testing now. We are also working on solving some flickering problems reported by a few users and hopefully that will be addressed in this next release.
3. The announcements on the TF201 (not being canceled as speculated) will occur as soon as I have a release to do it.
4. Full time forum support at a few Android centric sites will be launched in the near future as discussed.
3/26/2012 Update
1. Firmware Update 9.4.2.21 will be released by 3/30 for North America. Updates and fixes galore for the lack of better words.
3/29/2012 Update -
I hope to announce some TF201 updates in the near future. We are finishing testing and should be able to discuss the update shortly.
4/2/2012 Update -
Still working on the details regarding the announcement and once finalized it will be released as quickly as possible. In addition, I have gathered additional details from a few users who are seeing locks or weirdness after playing a Tegra 3 optimized game after a few hours. I will be in California next week to work with NVIDIA and Google on this problem and browser slowness or closure that a few users have also reported.
4/5/2012 Update -
I guess the cat is out of the bag in regards to the planned announcement discussed above. I cannot comment officially at this point but will provide a detailed update once released to do so. In addition, if you PM me, please include an email address for contact within your message. It will greatly facilitate receiving an answer.
4/9/2012 Update -
I am in California this week to meet with Google, NVIDIA and others on current software packages and upcoming products so there will be some delays in messages. As for the GPS Dongle program on the TF201, we will make an official announcement (program details and registration) next week.
4/20/2102 Update -
Please contact me if you are a North American owner and have any issues with the GPS dongle. To date, testing has proved successful on a wide variety of units but we want to ensure a pleasant user experience. Also, working on validation testing on a new firmware image now.
4/27/2012 Update -
We are still validating a new firmware release. We are also tracking user reported issues with Tegra 3 games, WiFi Direct and some continued random reboot/lock problems with a few units. Based on current regression testing at HQ, NVIDIA and Google it appears we will need to swap out a few units to pinpoint exact user problems. For the unlocked audience, we have requested a version of NVFlash that works properly for users who unlocked their units.
5/3/2012 Update -
We have new NV base code that is undergoing validation testing now. I will released this firmware to a few beta users in the near future. It addresses random reboot/lock problems among a few other items. In addition, we are still working with NV and Google on code changes to address browser issues once multiple browsers are installed and Flash is not uninstalled and reinstalled again after a cold reboot.
5/9/2012 Update -
I have been out with pneumonia but will have messages forwarded to the Customer Care Team.
5/10/2012 Update -
I will provide test build 9.4.2.25.2 to a few power users tomorrow that addresses ANR problems identified with NVIDIA and Google. If this tests out fine, we will release as general beta to a wider group and then qualification release for users. Various browsers use different WebKit versions and thread priorities, which create some of the problems users with multiple browsers have been experiencing and even with other applications.
I got my refund from you guys (dock+ tablet+ shipping) thanks again! Hai trat was wonderful! Keep up the good work!
Don't let people discourage you!
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Can you post a "procedure" or "guide" to obtaining full refund based on displeasure with GPS performance? Along with detailed information on who is "qualified" and who "isn't".
Gary Key said:
4. I will have some exciting news in about two weeks about the TF201.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exciting! After returning mine for a bright pixel and being tabletless for a month, I'm hoping... price break or updated hardware with bulletproof GPS, Wifi, Bluetooth, and no light bleed. Now that there are 2048 x 1536 resolution tablets out there for $499, the value proposition doesn't work as well as it did even if the TF201 didn't have the alleged level of errors people are stating.
Very good post Gary, it really does make a difference to my own personal view on Asus.
I very much doubt that any other manufacturer would put as much effort into backing their product.
Please keep visiting and putting various issues at ease, its what makes a big difference, although you will never keep everyone happy.
Very interested to see whats in store for us with future updates etc .. keep us posted.
P.S. I wish there was a UK based Rep on the forums too.
this is exciting news!
Thanks for the update and hopefully wifi/bt dropout will be fixed soon!
Thanks for getting me my refund Gary I cant wait to buy the next Asus tablet that comes along.
Can't wait to hear the "exciting news" about the TF201 in a couple of weeks. Except, now you have me getting all anxious again!
Good to see you guys really taking care of the issues and in contact with the users
Thanks for taking the time to come to the forums and put a face to Asus. Not many companies will reach out like that, and it's much appreciated. I know all you mainly hear are the negatives, so as a new prime owner as of yesterday, I can tell you thus far I'm very happy with the device.
Based on the level of community involvement and my brief experience with the device so far, I'd be more than comfortable recommending an Asus tablet to friends or family.
Thank you Gary, good on you!
but please get rid of your ugly
- https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
in the signature. No insult buddy, but many people are allergic to apples. You might try dates or a link to figs, much sweeter...
We all agree on being happy not having to post in that thread and this link makes another great and exceptional statement little.
Give me a thanks and help me survive till the 17Th or so
Gary,
I have emailed a few times with requested info but never heard back. If I am doing something incorrectly, please let me know. I did hear from your friend in the repair center and he suggested waiting until parts come in. Unfortunately, I lost his name and email address. If you could send that, I would like to email him and now set up the return. I bought mine before GPS was removed from the specifications and was very disappointed to see that development as that is why I bought the Prime over the iPad 2.
Thanks for any info.
MBO
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Gary, thank you for the update.
I happened to have received an email from an someone outlining the steps at first and this was the first response:
Dear ,
Thank you for contacting ASUS and providing your feedback. I do apologize for your inconvenience. In the meantime I would suggest you to have it reset to the factory default by going to the 'settings' -> 'Backup & Reset' -> 'Factory data reset' (Please backup all of your personal data before this process) and please let me know if the problems still persist after this process. I'll be providing you with overnight shipping label to have the unit sent in for service. (Please provide shipping address for the process) You may also contact us at 888-678-3688 if you have any questions.
Thank you,
-Asus Tablet Team
I did as the email stated with no improvement. I then requested this.
Thank you for the offer, but I am going to send my Prime back to Amazon if I can't get a new fully tested unit from Asus directly. The reason being I don't feel I should have to wait for Asus to fix my new tablet I bought. I would consider keeping it if Asus was willing to ship me out a new unit so I don't have to wait for it to be fixed. If there is some way we can work this out so I don't have to go without a unit and one that has been fully tested that would mean the world to me, since I use it everyday.
I did the data reset and still the same issue. My Prime also has screen bleed, no GPS at all and washed out colors even when not in power saving mode.
Please help a loyal Asus customer.
Thank You
To which Asus responded
Hello,
We can only provide you a waranty service but if you are still within warranty with Amazon we recommend contacting them if this will be a faster process for you that will shorten the waiting time to have a unit.
Thank you,
Rodel L.
So I did exactly that, and boy am I glad I did. My new screen has saturated colors, wifi is about the same, I haven't tested the wifi/bluetooth experience yet.
Thanks for the update
Gary,
Thank you for coordinating the efforts to fix the problems and for all the communication with the forum members.
I pretty much gave up on the Prime because I need a strong WiFi performance and also need the WiFi to work simultaneously with BT. I also lost confidence on getting a Prime without bleeding since all 4 units I got had the problem. I returned my 4th prime and will wait for the Infinity. It will be a long wait but having the higher screen resolution is an added incentive.
We do have some unanswered questions about the Infinity that I was hoping to know the answers so I am not waiting for a product that would not meet my needs:
1) Will the WiFi work imultaneously with BT with no performance impact on either one, on the Infinity? I believe some users spotted on the FCC filing that this will not work on the TF300 so I am wondering about the Infinity?
2) Will the TF-201 docks be compatible and color matched with the Infinity? My dock is non returnable so I will need to sell it if that's not the case.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the updates, Gary.
The number one thing that will drive away my business is when companies are completely unwilling to engage their customers honestly. It's refreshing to see you guys take a different approach.
Asus' attention on these forums is also what made me take the plunge with the TF201 purchase even after reading all the alarms raised here. I can only encourage as much transparency as you can possibly provide, which I think helps quell some of the crazy bald speculations that some people try to pass off as facts around here.
For what it's worth, I think it's totally fair for Gary to point to the forums of *other* manufacturers. The "just works" myth is deeply ingrained in so many people's heads despite lots of evidence to the contrary. Noting that *all* products have some growing pains at launch injects a much needed dose of reality into the discussion.
(short story: I was frustrated with the WiFi signal on my Prime this morning and asked my wife if I could use her iPhone 4S to test throughput. I tried opening up speedtest, but the App Store was totally hung. I asked my wife about it and she said that problem happens often and can take hours to resolve itself.)
Thanks Gary, really appreciate the frank information. It is certainly eye opening to see the behavior of some members, though honestly not totally surprising.
I do have a question though, I have been searching high and low for an english-only dock in Canada, but even the CBIL units are hard to come by. I'm going on a large trip in April and was counting on having this dock in January or February, but now I'm starting to get nervous. When will Canada see the english docks in numbers where we can actually get them?
Thanks again.
I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Its good to have a voice to balance what on first site can seem like a lot of negative posts. I'm looking forward to the next two weeks.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA
After reading this post i'm officially an ASUS fanboy now. Thx gary, thx Asus.
All i can say:
<3<3<3
"I am not going to defend us 100% as like with all manufacturers we have areas of improvement. "
For me this is the difference between a good company and a great one. Making awesome products (the transformer prime is atm the best tablet in the world, yes even after ipad3 release) and still having the cojones/modesty to say they're not perfect and they try to improve.
Thats what i really dislike about those Apple guys. All you ever hear from them is "we are best best best". If you really look closly at it, they are not better than anyone. They just spend much more on advertising.
[e]
Techie2012 said:
1) Will the WiFi work imultaneously with BT with no performance impact on either one, on the Infinity? I believe some users spotted on the FCC filing that this will not work on the TF300 so I am wondering about the Infinity?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BT will always have an impact on Wifi. Its radio signals, they interfere with each other. This issue is not unique to the prime. So if you turn on BT your wifi speed will be slowed down. It even happens on laptops.
I went through two units, before giving up. The first unit had reset issues even after .15 update but the GPS worked when outside (not for GPS use in a moving vehicle.) The second unit did not experience resets, but the GPS failed to work and the WiFi reception was poor at best. I really want to like the Prime, but until they produce a consistently error free products I am going to wait on the sidelines. What type of QA did ASUS do on this product prior to release(We obviously know at this time what they DIDN'T do, it went from Alpha Test to Manufacturing, and skipped the whole Beta Test thing)?
I appreciate all of your hard work, but ASUS really has a PR problem. Most of us on this site are advanced users, and or IT Professionals living on the bleeding edge, as such we (at least myself) have the ability to recommend products and services to our companies and friends( I field at least 20 calls a week from friends and family members seeking advise on tech purchases.)
I couldn't in good conscious recommend this product to a non-tech. individual with it current list of issues, mainly GPS(I know this feature has been removed from the list of specs, but almost every Android Tablet out has this feature, and this IS a premium product), weak WiFi Signals, and problems with WiFi/Bluetooth On at the same time. This is not a 1%, 9% but probably %99 issue with the currently released units.
Again, the average users will not know the difference or know what to look for, but this doesn't excuse the fact that the problem does exist. Most people didn't know the Ford Pinto would explode if it got hit from the rear, but Ford did, and while this is not a case of people getting injured or killed, but the result is the same, if a company knows that a product had a defect, i.e. the GPS you should fix the problem, not make the spec. magically disappear. The right thing to do is apologize, engineer a fix, swallow the expense and learn a lesson and move on, not sweep it under the rug and fix it on the next product released.
I would have a lot more respect for ASUS if they would have chosen the right way to fix the problem, not the least costly to the Share Holders.
I am not a fanboy of any company but tech itself, I like certain Android based products, I also like Apple products and Microsoft as well, I think competition is a good thing, and I enjoy using and learning about all Operating Systems and associated technologies, I would get awfully board being a Fanboy for a particular company (be it Microsoft, Apple or Google.)
One last point, I would also re-train you Technical Support Staff to NOT advise a customer that he can go online and purchase a replacement Power Supply on your Online Store, instead of going through the process of getting an RMA for the defective power supply (The USB Cap came loose and I would have to pull it by the cord to disconnect it, also if it was plugged in upside down I was getting shocked when touching the back of the Prime.) It would be one thing if I was outside my warranty period, but 7 days is another. The information for this is under: ASUS Service No=1701380; Rma No=USG7222490. I returned the unit because it was rebooting (as described above.)
thanks Gary for the updates. still waiting to hear back from a few messages I sent. I know you are swamped with messages. but thanks for starting this new thread and clearing up a majority of the rumours floating around. also for indirectly calling out the users who are trying to take advantage of a situation. I see them here on online and catch them in their lies. they always changing up their stories and brag about unneccessary details or claims. funny to see one or 2 of those people, take advantage of situation, posting in this thread...now that is classic.
I'm glad you cleared up the fix rumour. which always made sense and sounded very plausible.
Anxious to here what's this new exciting news you speak of concerning the Tf-201. I have some good hunches on what it might be but it'll be best to let you convey that instead of starting up new rumors n speculations.
looking forward to new .16 update. I figured we would be getting one soon.
Also, many people here on this forum think with you being Technical Marketing Manager, you are just here to do damage control and tell users anything, including lies or misleading info. I personally, and probably alot more users also, never got that impression from you or have seen evidence of that actually occurring. I for one am glad you came to help out on the forums. Regardless if it was voluntary or if after the the issues started popping up. it doesn't matter. what does matter is that Asus is showing that they are trying Tonto the extra mile and work with users on the issues. I know its not possible to help everyone else at once. that's why some may feel like you haven't addressed them fast enough. Sorting these issues out takes time. plus add in all the false reports, misleading info, and people trying to take advantage of situation and all that only delays things even more so.
I have never seen this kind of involvement from a device manufacturer before and its appreciated. it shows alot about how Asus cares about customer satisfaction and will try to uphold that value.
this new thread by you was needed. glad to see it finally surface. hopefully will make the trolls go away now that they know we on to their tactics...lmfao. As most of us should know who example 2a. is speaking of.. I never really believed him anyways. he got caught up in lies and still lying. lol if he smart he should just quietly vanish into the night. I love it, people getting put on blast. finally exposed!
How are the beta testers doing today? Are you feeling like you paid $500+ to beta test the prime for Asus/Nvidia/Google? Well me too!!
At this point, I have been through several firmwares that have both broken and fixed specific issues that I have run into. I just want things to get resolved with every new update, that is not the case currently.
I am terribly frustrated after giving my beautiful prime to my dad to see how amazing this tablet is, only to have him give it back a few minutes later after several things he tried either crashed, or did not respond to input at all!
This is not the first time I have given it to someone who wanted to be wowed-- and wasn't!!!
After trying really hard to remain an Asus fan through all of this, I am starting to feel like just an unpaid beta tester.
I know that Asus is trying really hard to make it's prime the device it was promised to be but I am getting less convinced by the day that we will ever get this.
I am not claiming that Asus is entirely at fault, but ultimately, it is their product and their decisions to use the hardware and software that they did- as well as to make those components work together properly.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I GET FOR BEING A BETA TESTER!!!
We should all be asking this question of Asus at this point. Even those of us who have had decent experiences with the prime have still run into issues....
(yes, even demandarin has had issues despite professing his undying admiration)
Get a refund...
Sounds like you have a defective tablet. Your post is unlikely to be well accepted for two reasons. The first is that you're not disclosing what you've done to resolve this issue for yourself. The second is that you've only come here to complain rather than obtain help for yourself.
Aye, really didn't need another thread about a four month running old joke.
Yes, a lot about the Prime's life up to now has sucked ridiculously hard and there are some very obvious issues with ASUS in general. But they haven't abandoned anyone (maybe Italy and Greek with the GPS dongle) and, as mentioned, you'd likely succeed in getting a refund if you're really not happy with the device; then you really almost did get to beta test for ASUS because you've used the hell out of the device and come out no poorer for having the opportunity after returning it to them.
Good luck with your Prime adventures, sorry it's not working out as well for you as it is me. Yes I experience some issues (especially when I'm dumb enough to blindly update), but nothing so far has stopped this thing from wow'ing everyone around me.
Cappurnikus said:
Sounds like you have a defective tablet. Your post is unlikely to be well accepted for two reasons. The first is that you're not disclosing what you've done to resolve this issue for yourself. The second is that you've only come here to complain rather than obtain help for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to know how it is possible that the tablet is defective when everyone(even those who say they have no other issues) have issues still. And I have been here since the launch trying to get help for my poor prime(mostly reading the helpful posts since I don't have a lot of time to post myself).
As for issues, I will cite the games that will no longer work properly after the .21 update, also the touchscreen issues(without root and calibration), and the overall lack of real system stability, force closes, browser freezes, stutters when opening apps, browser scrolling is crappy at best. Wifi--- should I even mention the fact that no prime I have ever worked with maintained a reliable wifi connection. Frequent forget/re-learn or disconnect/reconnect required to get it back!!
Maybe coming off a fresh reset, it is snappy, but it lags after using it for a small period of time. I have used 6 primes at this point from b-c up to #3 and none of them were without these issues.
In addition to all of that, I was looking forward to unlocking (not partial unlocking) and anticipation of some rom play. I refuse to unlock, obviously unlocking without allowing the proper recovery methods is not wise at this point.
I don't want to find out that my favorite hardware maker is not up to the task, and had some renewed faith with the GPS dongle, but I am really having a hard time. I love the prime in idea, but the device itself has not lived up to the promises and I just want them to do something more than an ugly add on to an otherwise beautiful device to resolve the months of frustration that so many have had. It does address the GPS issue, and I appreciate that they did address it, BUT that does not make up for the other issues that even the good primes have.
Show me a "good" prime and I will show you why it has issues, and you will be sad too. I have done this with 2 different owners who said theirs were "perfect". They were just not using the device to do the same things and assumed everything was working properly.
If you don't want to "Beta test" a product that costs so damn much, shut the **** up and buy products that have already been on the market for enough _years_ (and I mean like > 5) to be fully beta tested instead of something shiny and new.
Guess what? This isn't an Original Droid or a G1, it's a new device. Live with it or return it for a refund 'cuz this isn't a place for whining.
Now back to your regularlly scheduled beta tests....
Spidey-- apparently you don't have a very good grasp on what a beta tester is, and the cost was never the issue-- it was that there was a cost at all to beta test a product!!!
Beta Tester: someone who tests a product before it is released. Product testers help companies identify weak points in their products which could cause consumer frustration, and they also identify specific issues which need to be corrected before a product can be released. Typically, beta testers test several incarnations of a product, until it is deemed ready for release. Most commonly, beta testers work with electronics and software.
SURE SOUNDS LIKE ASUS NEEDED SOME OF THOSE GUYS... and never found them until they released the device to US, the unwitting consumers.
To be clear, I would not have minded being one of those beta testers, but we should not have had to pay so damn much for that honor.
btw spidey, stfu? really? Is it really that under your skin?
jordanmw said:
How are the beta testers doing today? Are you feeling like you paid $500+ to beta test the prime for Asus/Nvidia/Google? Well me too!!
At this point, I have been through several firmwares that have both broken and fixed specific issues that I have run into. I just want things to get resolved with every new update, that is not the case currently.
I am terribly frustrated after giving my beautiful prime to my dad to see how amazing this tablet is, only to have him give it back a few minutes later after several things he tried either crashed, or did not respond to input at all!
This is not the first time I have given it to someone who wanted to be wowed-- and wasn't!!!
After trying really hard to remain an Asus fan through all of this, I am starting to feel like just an unpaid beta tester.
I know that Asus is trying really hard to make it's prime the device it was promised to be but I am getting less convinced by the day that we will ever get this.
I am not claiming that Asus is entirely at fault, but ultimately, it is their product and their decisions to use the hardware and software that they did- as well as to make those components work together properly.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I GET FOR BEING A BETA TESTER!!!
We should all be asking this question of Asus at this point. Even those of us who have had decent experiences with the prime have still run into issues....
(yes, even demandarin has had issues despite professing his undying admiration)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jordanmw, I know how you feel. I was feeling the same way when I had my prime. Just return it pal you'll feel much better with no regrets. I'm done after trying two but major props to you for sticking with them and went through six (6) and still not satisfied.
ps. these fanboy's I'm telling you, LMFAO.
Crazy, my tablet and the three friends who also bought one all work perfectly!
theoner1 said:
Jordanmw, I know how you feel. I was feeling the same way when I had my prime. Just return it pal you'll feel much better with no regrets. I'm done after trying two but major props to you for sticking with them and went through six (6) and still not satisfied.
ps. these fanboy's I'm telling you, LMFAO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am actually a fanboy myself, that is why this is so frustrating for me. I did not RMA 6 times or anything but had 6 different ones, each for a week at a time- used as my personal tablet. It was for work-- I still have my personal one that I bought back in the beginning of Feb. C0 serial. That is the one that I bought for myself and all the others are being used by company users. Two of those have been RMA'd for different reasons and came back with the exact same issues that they were sent for.
Cool story Bro!
Okay, we really don't need another one of these...
OP, please search the forum first. There are plenty of other threads where you could have expressed your feelings.
Closed before this produces any serious issues among the users.
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
th3raid0r said:
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
dr_drache said:
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that is your assumption. I never even once demanded for more. I feel that the actions that have been taken are one of the sloppiest examples of open source development. I am trying to be a reasonable voice. I am trying to keep development going despite our recent setbacks.
I think that at the very least, devs should provide the sources so that development may continue after they decide to leave. Otherwise we loose too much progress.
th3raid0r said:
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
th3raid0r said:
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Dude, we don't another thread about this lol. I'm not here to harp on this fact, but I'm glad I dumped my DNA while I still had the chance. For some extremely odd reason, people don't know how to act in HTC threads. I definitely don't miss all of this drama from when I had my Rezound.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
th3raid0r said:
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal. I don't know what went down with you guys over there but maybe you can speak with the powers that be and work out an amicable solution.
jcase said:
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Sigh.
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
orangechoochoo said:
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
dsb9938 said:
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I totally understand all of that.
I have made some tweaks myself, but I don't publish them because I know they don't have much application outside of myself.
I do know where you are at, I work at a large legal software company as a QA Analyst. I KNOW the daily grind on this.
The harrasment won't always go away. Hell, i get it here in a large company. It can be mitigated by a few things. For example you can use a smaller community.
You don't have to deal with these things at all, but if you leave on such bad terms without a way for someone to pick up where you left off, it doesn't leave a good impression on the rest of the community.
The fact that you don't know code makes this all the more impressive. You are a fantastic problem solver, it shows, maybe we can find some way to lessen the blow for you and yet continue public development?
th3raid0r said:
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
solutions anyone?
dsb, jcase I have to side with you guys entirely. I love your work and I appreciate it completely. I am grateful for you guys, were it not for you guys and other people like you I would not get to 'OCD' on my droid all hours of the night like I do. I have learned much. I am a machinist in a shipyard, I can understand fine tuning and perfection in your work.
Unfortunately most of today's societal behaviors even in grown adults are dysfunctional at best. I have been on the internet since it's inception to the public eye and all I can say is that arguing and bickering that happens on the internet is absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for you guys and embarrassed for the "others."
I have to agree with what works though. My daughter, when she was young would throw a temper tantrum and slam her bedroom door, so I removed the door.
orangechoochoo said:
Sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
orangechoochoo said:
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its almost night here, and Jack Daniels is calling me, all after reading all that posts and some chating on IRC... Never ever see such outcome because of some not polite posts. I have degree in International Relations and first thing i 've learned - don't say what you think, say what you need to say and SMILE )))) We all just people. I got my family. Wife, kids... But i spend time here not only because of kernels, ROMs and all that stuff. But because of great community. It looks like that 1 person can spoil all that great atmosphere.... :silly:
jcase said:
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said you make a living off the income generated from donations. I know it is mostly small, but the funds do help most people. It is also nice to know that you mean something to a few individuals.
Also, I work at a legal software company as a QA Analyst officially, but I do mostly QA Engineering work for no recognition, no additional pay, and the occasional bit of harassment when someone doesn't understand my methods. I really DO get the environment.
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
th3raid0r said:
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think anybody owes "the community" a way to recover?
D
.