Hi I used to import Chinese phones, some of them OK, but all of them significantly lacking in polish in the phone operating system design as in for example, lack of continuous tries on failed SMS (if not sent, it just sits in Outbox), poor logical menu layout, poor/slow T9 and so on. I stopped selling them 2 years ago due to more competitive pricing from known brands.
This post is to enquire the phone O/S itself, which runs with Android. Its also not to enquire about faulty phones, of which they used to have very low QC.
If anyone here has experience with the latest generation of Chinese Android eg 4" screens, with GPS and the bells and whistles can they advise their experience here please.
Thanks kindly,
Alistair
Alistair George said:
Hi I used to import Chinese phones, some of them OK, but all of them significantly lacking in polish in the phone operating system design as in for example, lack of continuous tries on failed SMS (if not sent, it just sits in Outbox), poor logical menu layout, poor/slow T9 and so on. I stopped selling them 2 years ago due to more competitive pricing from known brands.
This post is to enquire the phone O/S itself, which runs with Android. Its also not to enquire about faulty phones, of which they used to have very low QC.
If anyone here has experience with the latest generation of Chinese Android eg 4" screens, with GPS and the bells and whistles can they advise their experience here please.
Thanks kindly,
Alistair
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Click to collapse
Well android should be the same. the only difference i can see for chinese android phones and normal android phones are that chinese android phone might not have play store preinstalled on them
well the latest chinese phones are actually quite good and i want them. HTC(yes they are chinese too ) One X, One S, Evo LTE, Rezound. they all are pretty good. Huawei has their ascend P1 and their ascend p1 quad. they are pretty good. zte has a good quadcore too. Meizu/Lenovo makes good phones too. xiaomi has a really awesome phone
Well the point is that chinese phones aren't as bad as they used to be and they are quite good and sometimes even better than more know brands(ie. samsung, LG, sony)
-DarkKnight- said:
Well android should be the same. the only difference i can see for chinese android phones and normal android phones are that chinese android phone might not have play store preinstalled on them
well the latest chinese phones are actually quite good and i want them. HTC(yes they are chinese too ) One X, One S, Evo LTE, Rezound. they all are pretty good. Huawei has their ascend P1 and their ascend p1 quad. they are pretty good. zte has a good quadcore too. Meizu/Lenovo makes good phones too. xiaomi has a really awesome phone
Well the point is that chinese phones aren't as bad as they used to be and they are quite good and sometimes even better than more know brands(ie. samsung, LG, sony)
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Click to collapse
Not quite the answer I wanted. You have generalised, I am asking for someone who actually owns one to comment on it and its o/s, not the Android.
I am interested in the hardware aspect and how the latest implementations of phone operations work.
For example, my old Sony Ericsson had a much better phone o/s than the Chinese phones I sold in several respects; differences as per my OP.
I understand most of them which claim 8Mp cameras are 5Mp or less. The cameras that were on the phones I sold were junk, how do the most recent ones perform? How well does the phone operate eg reception, functionality etc.
Thanks,
Alistair.
Alistair George said:
Not quite the answer I wanted. You have generalised, I am asking for someone who actually owns one to comment on it and its o/s, not the Android.
I am interested in the hardware aspect and how the latest implementations of phone operations work.
For example, my old Sony Ericsson had a much better phone o/s than the Chinese phones I sold in several respects; differences as per my OP.
I understand most of them which claim 8Mp cameras are 5Mp or less. The cameras that were on the phones I sold were junk, how do the most recent ones perform? How well does the phone operate eg reception, functionality etc.
Thanks,
Alistair.
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Click to collapse
No I have a used a Huawei ascend p1 and one s
They are really food. Camera is really awesome on both . Both are awesome in benchmarks and both of them have full android features
Sent from the My Little Pony Official App
I have spent some time with a Huaweii ascend G300 recently and it seems like a great budget phone The OS seems good and any problems are fixed by installing a different launcher.
I wish I had an iphone. All I have is a galaxy s6 and the LG g5 doesnt look too good. If it was a iPhone e it would be Considered great. Who how is better android of apple and shy?
It's subjective, they both have pros and cons.
I prefer Android as it offers more freedom and customization. IPhone lacks any kind of customization and with the very limited color selection, you end up with the exact same phone and layout as half the planet. The lack of homescreen widgets is also a negative.
The only real benefits to an IPhone, for me, are that Apple doesn't cater to carriers and let them bloat the phone with their bloatware/custom UI's, which leads to the second benefit of immediate updates. I also like that they support all bands, so you don't need to buy a new device when jumping carriers.
There is no best with phones. There is only better for you. Some users (like myself) prefer android. It allows me to customize and do things I cannot on the iPhone. Some users love the UI of iOS and love how simple it is and hate android because of how complex it can be. I find the best way to make a ex iPhone user happy with android is to go Nexus. It is similar in simplicity and provides a familiar ease. My wife just did that and she hated android before but not loves it with her Nexus 5X.
Really it depends on the person. These debates can be irrelevant and get heated for no reason because people will argue points that are better for them and not the other person in the debate. I find as time passes the gap between iOS and android is closing in. The non-stock android devices are becoming closer to stock and slimming down their skins and it is helping iOS users to come over. I have owned a lot of iOS and Android devices (see my signature) but eventually I find the iPhone to be boring and want more features. But once again the features that I use and the features that you use will differ so there is no reason for me to state android is better.
I do think that Apple really needs to shake up the market. They have been dry the last couple of years and allowed android to take off with the market. They could easily lock up the market permanently if they just add some of the features android users love (quick charge, front facing speakers, slimmer bezels, larger batteries, wireless charging and the list goes on)
This is my unbiased opinion, hope it helps
If you wish you had an iPhone, get an iPhone.
joshuadjohnson22 said:
There is no best with phones. There is only better for you. Some users (like myself) prefer android. It allows me to customize and do things I cannot on the iPhone. Some users love the UI of iOS and love how simple it is and hate android because of how complex it can be. I find the best way to make a ex iPhone user happy with android is to go Nexus. It is similar in simplicity and provides a familiar ease. My wife just did that and she hated android before but not loves it with her Nexus 5X.
Really it depends on the person. These debates can be irrelevant and get heated for no reason because people will argue points that are better for them and not the other person in the debate. I find as time passes the gap between iOS and android is closing in. The non-stock android devices are becoming closer to stock and slimming down their skins and it is helping iOS users to come over. I have owned a lot of iOS and Android devices (see my signature) but eventually I find the iPhone to be boring and want more features. But once again the features that I use and the features that you use will differ so there is no reason for me to state android is better.
I do think that Apple really needs to shake up the market. They have been dry the last couple of years and allowed android to take off with the market. They could easily lock up the market permanently if they just add some of the features android users love (quick charge, front facing speakers, slimmer bezels, larger batteries, wireless charging and the list goes on)
This is my unbiased opinion, hope it helps
If you wish you had an iPhone, get an iPhone.
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Click to collapse
Everyone that I know says that their iphone is better. The iphone does look nice and it is faster and doesn't lag or get stuck like android phones do. It also has better features and I would buy one but i can't afford the iphone.
Dgball40 said:
Everyone that I know says that their iphone is better. The iphone does look nice and it is faster and doesn't lag or get stuck like android phones do. It also has better features and I would buy one but i can't afford the iphone.
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Click to collapse
It doesn't matter what "everyone" says... I know a lot of people who would disagree with your "everyone". By the statement you made and my comment above , clearly if they own an iPhone then they prefer iOS to android and it is better for them. But it does not mean it is better for everyone. My 6P and my wife's 5X do not have any lag. In fact I had more lag on my iPhone 6 than I have on these devices. So you may buy an iPhone and still get frustrated with issues. My wife's iPhone had issue after issues which led her to get an android after everything lagged and would crash.
Well either save up and buy one or sell your phone and buy an older iPhone. I do not get the point of this thread if you asked for which is better but then you stated you have already made up your mind. This thread is irrelevant now unless your plan was to public state how you think iOS is better. I have owned many iPhones in my life and I have never had a better phone than my 6P. It is crazy fast and handles any task I toss at it. Future android phones will be similar.
EDIT: oh @Dgball40 I will admit that the S6 is a laggy mess with horrible battery life so if you are judging your android experience on that phone try a real phone.
joshuadjohnson22 said:
These debates can be irrelevant and get heated for no reason because people will argue points that are better for them and not the other person in the debate..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy nailed it.
Thread closed.
-XDA Staff
Honor is on a roll with great products. But can Honor be perceived to be in the same league as Apple and Samsung?
I don't see why not. Apple is not going to progress with the policy for developers that they have. I just recently read about how difficult it is to get you app into app store. I generally don't like apple. I'm biased. But biased with a reason.
Samsung has lots of bloatware which I don't like. I used to own an old galaxy 3. I can't really tell what is the situation with latest flagmans of samsung.
So you guys think the same? In Honor going to make it big?
Honor expressed its vision to become one among the top 3 smartphone companies by 2020, during their View 10 London launch event in January 2017, and judging by how they've been upping their game, it seems they have a chance to achieve their vision
I didn't know that they had expressed their vision. It's quite ambitious. I'm gonna watch the launch.
As a long time Samsung buyer
Galaxy exhibit to s8 and many notes in-between I see no difference.
Only draw back I'd see is if you're a heavy modder or custom rom flasher might pose a problem.
But as an average consumer.. It's on par..imho
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48330310
So no security updates and loss of functionality.
The used market for these is going to collapse IMHO, who'd want to take the risk when the above news story is on the front page of the BBC News website.
*Trump destroyed
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Some would say that Huawei helped destroy. Bad bad news for every kind of stakeholder. Tke world doesn't need this kind of shajt...
Is it even possible to keep on updating present devices using aosp?
Edit. FunkyHuawei Twitter [emoji849]
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dondavis007 said:
Some would say that Huawei helped destroy. Bad bad news for every kind of stakeholder. Tke world doesn't need this kind of shajt...
Is it even possible to keep on updating present devices using aosp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is it Huawei's fault that Donald Trump is trying to strong-arm China in trade talks? Huawei are a victim in this (or, more accurately, the consumers are the victims here).
Unless Huawei genuinely are spying on the world, which I doubt, then it certainly isn't their fault...
Ask those "some" I don't have a clue.
I probably have to buy a new phone so it's really bad news.
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Please Actually Read Before Making Statements
1. The P30 Pro will not "lose" functionality. It will continue to have Play Store and app support. Huawei phones moving forward will lose this... so actually the P30 Pro value is high since it will be the "last and latest" phone to continue to see this support.
2. All Huawei phones will still continue to be supported through AOSP and AOSP security updates... as long as Huawei can effectively push these out quickly, security vulnerabilities will be patched. Once again, it is the "licensed" products like gmail, play store, etc. they lost not Android
3. The trade war is smoke and mirrors. Apple has agreed behind close doors not to use their influence to speak out against the current administration.... in exchange, the administration is using their seat of power to effectively cripple Apple's greatest competitor, Huawei.... this just so happens to happen not even a month after it was reported that Huawei sales went higher than Apple world-wide.... The administration also made some deal or threat to Google behind closed doors to make this happen... This is why you haven't heard anything from the Google camp yet, as thy get their ducks in a row to make some kind of real statement today. This was planned day 1 after Apple made their deal with Qualcomm to bury the hatchet so to speak. Reason: Apple almost had to turn to Huawei for 5G modem chips, once that was off the table, Game on to strong arm Huawei. Tim Apple and Trump are businessmen first... always remember that... It is the "Art of the Deal"
4. Huawei, if they choose to, will get the chance down the road here in a few months, to pay some fines, etc. or some other garbage to get everything back. It will be just enough money to "sting" Remember, US Companies are doing over $1B in sales to Huawei this year. Trump won't threaten this... its always about big business, Qualcomm won't be able to make everyone's 5G chips.... Huawei will need to be tapped at some point. This also helps the US stay at the same or equal level of other countries with 5G roll out.... most EU countries were looking at Huawei for their tower solutions... this will slow this down now and make countries "rethink" in the short term.
5. Huawei has been planning this since trump went into office or even before that... trust in the fact that they are not scarred or "scare tactics"
Your P30 Pro's are good android support and app store support phones. Resell won't be immediately effected and it is still the best camera phone on the market.
mahst68 said:
4. Huawei, if they choose to, will get the chance down the road here in a few months, to pay some fines, etc. or some other garbage to get everything back. It will be just enough money to "sting" Remember, US Companies are doing over $1B in sales to Huawei this year. Trump won't threaten this... its always about big business, Qualcomm won't be able to make everyone's 5G chips.... Huawei will need to be tapped at some point. This also helps the US stay at the same or equal level of other countries with 5G roll out.... most EU countries were looking at Huawei for their tower solutions... this will slow this down now and make countries "rethink" in the short term.
5. Huawei has been planning this since trump went into office or even before that... trust in the fact that they are not scarred or "scare tactics"
Your P30 Pro's are good android support and app store support phones. Resell won't be immediately effected and it is still the best camera phone on the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy gets it. Hold on to your P30 Pro. Enjoy it. Maybe it's the last Android phone from Huawei if things really go south, but to me, the phone hasn't really lost any value. I don't plan getting much from reselling it in a few years anyway.
NJ72 said:
Unless Huawei genuinely are spying on the world, which I doubt, then it certainly isn't their fault...
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Click to collapse
https://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-leaks-timeline-2016-9
Just like that nonsense on Supermicro boards containing spy-chips that ended up never being there, this is all BS.
Again, I'd much rather own and use a Huawei phone than a Google one. In general, Asian people are much more trustworthy than Americans. Don't forget who are trying to get Assange extradited. It's not China, Japan, India or Thailand, it never will be, since they're smarter. Literacy alone proves that. 16% of Americans are total idiots that can't even read, let alone judge news on its merit.
NJ72 said:
How is it Huawei's fault that Donald Trump is trying to strong-arm China in trade talks? Huawei are a victim in this (or, more accurately, the consumers are the victims here).
Unless Huawei genuinely are spying on the world, which I doubt, then it certainly isn't their fault...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They most definitely are, China are notorious for heavily spying on there on people so why wouldnt they want info on everyone else?
I'm glad I got rid of my Huawei Mate 20 Pro when I got Hulk screen.
And for your information it is down to Huawei, because if it was solely down to them being a Chinese firm then OnePlus would be getting the same treatment.
Do some research into the dangers of 5G and health and you'll realise why this is all happening with Huawei, because they're heavily invested in 5G tech.
mahst68 said:
1. The P30 Pro will not "lose" functionality. It will continue to have Play Store and app support. Huawei phones moving forward will lose this... so actually the P30 Pro value is high since it will be the "last and latest" phone to continue to see this support.
2. All Huawei phones will still continue to be supported through AOSP and AOSP security updates... as long as Huawei can effectively push these out quickly, security vulnerabilities will be patched. Once again, it is the "licensed" products like gmail, play store, etc. they lost not Android
3. The trade war is smoke and mirrors. Apple has agreed behind close doors not to use their influence to speak out against the current administration.... in exchange, the administration is using their seat of power to effectively cripple Apple's greatest competitor, Huawei.... this just so happens to happen not even a month after it was reported that Huawei sales went higher than Apple world-wide.... The administration also made some deal or threat to Google behind closed doors to make this happen... This is why you haven't heard anything from the Google camp yet, as thy get their ducks in a row to make some kind of real statement today. This was planned day 1 after Apple made their deal with Qualcomm to bury the hatchet so to speak. Reason: Apple almost had to turn to Huawei for 5G modem chips, once that was off the table, Game on to strong arm Huawei. Tim Apple and Trump are businessmen first... always remember that... It is the "Art of the Deal"
4. Huawei, if they choose to, will get the chance down the road here in a few months, to pay some fines, etc. or some other garbage to get everything back. It will be just enough money to "sting" Remember, US Companies are doing over $1B in sales to Huawei this year. Trump won't threaten this... its always about big business, Qualcomm won't be able to make everyone's 5G chips.... Huawei will need to be tapped at some point. This also helps the US stay at the same or equal level of other countries with 5G roll out.... most EU countries were looking at Huawei for their tower solutions... this will slow this down now and make countries "rethink" in the short term.
5. Huawei has been planning this since trump went into office or even before that... trust in the fact that they are not scarred or "scare tactics"
Your P30 Pro's are good android support and app store support phones. Resell won't be immediately effected and it is still the best camera phone on the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...And to prove even further the absolute underhandedness of the whole Huawei and USA dealings.... FCC just backed TMobile/Sprint Merger, no concessions so that the USA can become a "world leader" in 5G deployment.... fairly easy to do when you cripple 1 of the 3 companies making 5G tower equipment that most EU countries were looking towards to build their infrastructure on.... Boy, unlike the movie Idiocracy.... there's still a few smart people around that see through this garbage...
ebproject said:
They most definitely are, China are notorious for heavily spying on there on people so why wouldnt they want info on everyone else?
I'm glad I got rid of my Huawei Mate 20 Pro when I got Hulk screen.
And for your information it is down to Huawei, because if it was solely down to them being a Chinese firm then OnePlus would be getting the same treatment.
Do some research into the dangers of 5G and health and you'll realise why this is all happening with Huawei, because they're heavily invested in 5G tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How's that tinfoil hat of yours? It's got bugger all to do with 5G and the health effects. This is all happening to Huawei because nobody gives a rat's ass about OnePlus realistically. The whole point of putting Huawei on the subs bench is so Donald Trump can strong arm China by holding the largest Chinese technology exporter to ransom until his trade deal demands are met.
Also, OnePlus aren't in the enterprise technology space, another reason they haven't gone after them. This isn't about spying, and this isn't about the health effects of 5G (5G is coming whether Huawei are involved or not), it's about the tangerine ignoramous throwing a tantrum because "I'm the leader of America and everyone needs to do as I say"...
P.s. suggesting that "Huawei must be spying because the Chinese spy on their own people" is ridiculous and also borderline racism... So please avoid that in the future, thanks.
ebproject said:
They most definitely are, China are notorious for heavily spying on there on people so why wouldnt they want info on everyone else?
I'm glad I got rid of my Huawei Mate 20 Pro when I got Hulk screen.
And for your information it is down to Huawei, because if it was solely down to them being a Chinese firm then OnePlus would be getting the same treatment.
Do some research into the dangers of 5G and health and you'll realise why this is all happening with Huawei, because they're heavily invested in 5G tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OnePlus doesn't threaten Apple.... once they do, wait for the spying rumors to start. Plus, OnePlus uses some elaborate hoops legally to keep their affiliation on the face of it away from Oppo. Huawei at its size can't do that, so their Chinese connection is more apparent.... and um, the name.... If I knew nothing about phones and phone makers, which most people outside here don't, and then said which one of these 2 brands is Chinese affiliated, Huawei or OnePlus.... let me see... oh, yeah the Chinese sounding one. Once again, perception, "fear of the other" dominates the USA right now... and its spreading across the world. The problem is that fearing the other is not the problem.... stupidity is, spreading like wildfire....
---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------
NJ72 said:
How's that tinfoil hat of yours? It's got bugger all to do with 5G and the health effects. This is all happening to Huawei because nobody gives a rat's ass about OnePlus realistically. The whole point of putting Huawei on the subs bench is so Donald Trump can strong arm China by holding the largest Chinese technology exporter to ransom until his trade deal demands are met.
Also, OnePlus aren't in the enterprise technology space, another reason they haven't gone after them. This isn't about spying, and this isn't about the health effects of 5G (5G is coming whether Huawei are involved or not), it's about the tangerine ignoramous throwing a tantrum because "I'm the leader of America and everyone needs to do as I say"...
P.s. suggesting that "Huawei must be spying because the Chinese spy on their own people" is ridiculous and also borderline racism... So please avoid that in the future, thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
mahst68 said:
OnePlus doesn't threaten Apple.... once they do, wait for the spying rumors to start. Plus, OnePlus uses some elaborate hoops legally to keep their affiliation on the face of it away from Oppo. Huawei at its size can't do that, so their Chinese connection is more apparent.... and um, the name.... If I knew nothing about phones and phone makers, which most people outside here don't, and then said which one of these 2 brands is Chinese affiliated, Huawei or OnePlus.... let me see... oh, yeah the Chinese sounding one. Once again, perception, "fear of the other" dominates the USA right now... and its spreading across the world. The problem is that fearing the other is not the problem.... stupidity is, spreading like wildfire....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with that, like I said it's all tied to how invested Huawei is in 5G.
---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------
Have a little watch of this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3tAxnNccY
ebproject said:
It has nothing to do with that, like I said it's all tied to how invested Huawei is in 5G.
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Click to collapse
It is, but only partially. It's to do with the fact that if Donald Trump can stop the US from importing Huawei network technology it would hurt the Chinese economy greatly - thus making the Chinese want a resolution to the trade argument ASAP (which is what it is all REALLY about, as we've all said... A LOT).
EDIT: It has bugger all to do with the health impacts of 5G. You're talking about Donald Trump here... He doesn't even think global warming is a thing, you think he gives 2 Fs about health impacts of 5G?
This is a trade deal argument and nothing more. 5G is coming whether it's Huawei kit at the centre of the infrastructure or not.
EDIT2: With regards to the scaremongering video you posted - you just wait until you find out what's in your microwave, how your Blu Ray player works or the hard drive in your PC
NJ72 said:
It is, but only partially. It's to do with the fact that if Donald Trump can stop the US from importing Huawei network technology it would hurt the Chinese economy greatly - thus making the Chinese want a resolution to the trade argument ASAP (which is what it is all REALLY about, as we've all said... A LOT).
EDIT: It has bugger all to do with the health impacts of 5G. You're talking about Donald Trump here... He doesn't even think global warming is a thing, you think he gives 2 Fs about health impacts of 5G?
This is a trade deal argument and nothing more. 5G is coming whether it's Huawei kit at the centre of the infrastructure or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, clearly you have no idea what 5G is capable of in terms of weapons systems and health risks.
Maybe not all due to health risks, but it can be used as a highly intelligent A.I. weapons system. If you think this is all about trade then you probably believe CNN and the Washington Post too!
ebproject said:
Okay, clearly you have no idea what 5G is capable of in terms of weapons systems and health risks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So how come Europe and the rest are using Huawei for there networks?
ebproject said:
Okay, clearly you have no idea what 5G is capable of in terms of weapons systems and health risks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly, as I've pointed out, the two are not in any way related.
Regardless of whether 5G technology will melt my insides, that isn't why Google has blocked the play store on a mobile phone.
Also, weapons technologies exist all around us, making lives easier. Technology when used correctly is safe, in the hands of idiots not so much. You seen what you can do with a microwave when you're not using it to heat ramen noodles?
mahst68 said:
...And to prove even further the absolute underhandedness of the whole Huawei and USA dealings.... FCC just backed TMobile/Sprint Merger, no concessions so that the USA can become a "world leader" in 5G deployment.... fairly easy to do when you cripple 1 of the 3 companies making 5G tower equipment that most EU countries were looking towards to build their infrastructure on.... Boy, unlike the movie Idiocracy.... there's still a few smart people around that see through this garbage...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ebproject said:
It has nothing to do with that, like I said it's all tied to how invested Huawei is in 5G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said it previously that it absolutely has everything to do with 5G.... Look at the FCC announcement... crippling Huawei is Donald Startegory 101 to make US "a world wide leader" (as quoted directly from FCC Chairman). You mentioned OnePlus.... as stated by other, OnePlus doesn't even play in the same state of the playground that Huawei, Apple, Alphabet, Ericsson & Qualcomm play.
Huawei spies no more or less then google (recently found out they record all your purchasing history) & Apple (basically tell you when you setup the phone that will use some of your data for analytics) and truly so what if Huawei does.... You doing some top secret research for your government that will cause its demise if Huawei and China knows... really, really.... Huawei and China can know what porn I like and what stuff I buy... hopefully they'll make more of it cheaper. :highfive:
giwta said:
So how come Europe and the rest are using Huawei for there networks?
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Click to collapse
Because the government's in Europe are easily manipulated and bought off, unlike trump has has enough money already, he can't be bought off.
ebproject said:
Because the government's in Europe are easily manipulated and bought off, unlike trump has has enough money already, he can't be bought off.
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Click to collapse
And here i rest my case with you. Dont tell me. Earth is flat innit?