So you can't under any circumstances get at the 50MP un-binned image. What's the benefit of starting with 50MP and pixel binning down to 12.5MP vs. just using a 12.5MP sensor to start with?
Is this just marketing, the 50MP sensor is available to Google, and they have no appetite for giving users more than 12.5MP images in reality?
i.e. Is there any benefit to always pixel-binning a 50MP image to 12.5MP vs using a native 12.5MP sensor to start with? Pixel binning makes sense when you can get to the higher resolution image when lighting conditions make sense to allow that, but Google don't support it.
It has to do with the size of the sensor and the amount of light that is read by each "pixel".
Is pixel binning still used when using digital zoom?
chaimav said:
Is pixel binning still used when using digital zoom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think so. I wish it wasn't
96carboard said:
It has to do with the size of the sensor and the amount of light that is read by each "pixel".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know. But I don't think there's any benefit of 5OMP binned to 12.5MP compared to a native 12.5MP sensor of the same overall size (with bigger pixels)
WibblyW said:
Yes I know. But I don't think there's any benefit of 5OMP binned to 12.5MP compared to a native 12.5MP sensor of the same overall size (with bigger pixels)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Computational photography. The more points of data the better the image (theoretically, but it seems to work out).
Binning for standard images allows higher resolution zoom.
It probably also has to do with Google choosing a sensor already in production.
WibblyW said:
Yes I know. But I don't think there's any benefit of 5OMP binned to 12.5MP compared to a native 12.5MP sensor of the same overall size (with bigger pixels)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, but that assumes that there is such a sensor available where in reality, what you will be able to find will be 1/4 the size.
chaimav said:
Is pixel binning still used when using digital zoom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is. Try taking picture with 2x zoom but with option to save also the raw file enabled. Looking at the resolution of the raw file it is just crop from the 1x zoom which is upscaled to 12mp using digital zoom.
Yeah, it seems like the camera software isn't fully baked yet for the new GN1 sensor. Samsung says that the purpose of their "Tetracell" technology is to provide a compromise between larger pixels for low light sensitivity and smaller pixels for higher resolution. So if Google isn't going to use the higher resolution for anything, I don't get why they went with this sensor. It seems like this extra resolution would be perfect in combination with their super zoom algorithm.
Crossing my fingers that they release an updated camera app that better takes advantage of the capabilities of the main sensor. It's Google though, so getting bored or distracted and dropping the ball on promising technology is one of their favorite things to do.
WibblyW said:
i.e. Is there any benefit to always pixel-binning a 50MP image to 12.5MP vs using a native 12.5MP sensor to start with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I guess that there isn't a significant difference. Google ignores the 50 and 48 megapixel modes of the Pixel 6 Pro sensors and that's a missed opportunity. So, Google's "super resolution" zoom is actually an anti-resolution zoom.
I guess that they chose this sensor because no other 12 megapixel sensor of this size was available. For example, the Sony Xperia Pro-I uses about the same sensor area as the Pixel 6. But they haven't chosen a 70mm² sensor with 12 megapixels, they are using 70mm² (12 megapixels) from a 20 megapixel 115mm² sensor.
Related
When recording in 1080p using the camera it is zoomed in. When using 720p you can see a lot more in the picture, where as 1080p seems to zoom in on the central object.
Now I was just wondering is it possible to mod this to make 1080p video record without being zoomed in (like how 720p does it) or is it impossible and it has to work that way ?
sorrowuk said:
When recording in 1080p using the camera it is zoomed in. When using 720p you can see a lot more in the picture, where as 1080p seems to zoom in on the central object.
Now I was just wondering is it possible to mod this to make 1080p video record without being zoomed in (like how 720p does it) or is it impossible and it has to work that way ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out the video recording review in gsmarena.com
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9100_galaxy_s_ii-review-597p9.php
Here's a thread about it if you want more detail.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=959475
when the sensor chip (the camera) cannot crank for example 30FPS at 1080P resolution, "zooming" is a trick.
The sensor has less surface to scan with the zooming and can then crank out the said fps at said resolution.
The exynos chip however does "real" 1080p encoding and the image is really 1080p, but appears zoomed, and therefore contains slightly less details than if the sensor did not zoom (since parts of the field of view are not viewable)
bilboa1 said:
when the sensor chip (the camera) cannot crank for example 30FPS at 1080P resolution, "zooming" is a trick.
The sensor has less surface to scan with the zooming and can then crank out the said fps at said resolution.
The exynos chip however does "real" 1080p encoding and the image is really 1080p, but appears zoomed, and therefore contains slightly less details than if the sensor did not zoom (since parts of the field of view are not viewable)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So would it ever be possible to have 1080p video without 'zooming' by modding the firmware/ in a custom rom?
Or is it hardware limitation ?
sorrowuk said:
So would it ever be possible to have 1080p video without 'zooming' by modding the firmware/ in a custom rom?
Or is it hardware limitation ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Physical Hardware limitation
Native res of sensor = 3264x2448
HD Video = 1920x1080
3264 / 1920 = 1.7
so the only way to record 1920 is to bin the .7 thus cutting out much of the screen.
now 720p HD only has a horizontal res of 1280 that goes into said sensor 2.55, so you only need to cut out the .55 (less than full hd) and then read alternate pixels and bin the rest.
Hope that makes sense
deanwray said:
Physical Hardware limitation
Native res of sensor = 3264x2448
HD Video = 1920x1080
3264 / 1920 = 1.7
so the only way to record 1920 is to bin the .7 thus cutting out much of the screen.
now 720p HD only has a horizontal res of 1280 that goes into said sensor 2.55, so you only need to cut out the .55 (less than full hd) and then read alternate pixels and bin the rest.
Hope that makes sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that even binning the 0.7 factor should give a better result than the actual "zoomed in" effect. In the other hand whe should have the zoom function at 1080P resoultion too.
DrSlump76 said:
I think that even binning the 0.7 factor should give a better result than the actual "zoomed in" effect. In the other hand whe should have the zoom function at 1080P resoultion too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at the calculations, you cant zoom in 1080 cause the sensor res aint enough!
deanwray said:
Look at the calculations, you cant zoom in 1080 cause the sensor res aint enough!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... i'm still dubtfull about this limitation. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that the htc sensation is able to apply digital zoom @ 1080P, and it should have an 8Mpixel camera too, isn't it?
I can't post a link but if you searc for "HTC Sensation takes FULL HD 1080p videos " in youtube you will find a video taken with htc sensation with digital zoom!
I don't think that the galaxy s2 hardware is unable to do the same thiks that htc sensation does...
Oh, digital zoom is easy, but a bit pointless. So no point zooming if your source resolution drops, why not record native at the lower res and increase on pc? You will get better result that a phone attempting bilinear calculations .. So probably excluded cause of it being pointless.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
deanwray said:
Oh, digital zoom is easy, but a bit pointless. So no point zooming if your source resolution drops, why not record native at the lower res and increase on pc? You will get better result that a phone attempting bilinear calculations .. So probably excluded cause of it being pointless.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
digital zoom during video recording is not applied by a simple bilinear calculation. Its quite the opposite:
No zoom -> use the whole sensor area and then "downsample" it to obtain the desired dimensions
Zoom->Sample the exact dimension from the center of the sensor.
Infact, if you watch two videos of the same scene taken with the sgs2 720P and then 1080P, you will notice that the 1080P gives a zoomed effect, becouse samsung only uses the rectangle on the center of the sensor to sample the frames, while with 720P uses the whole sensor area.
Power limitations? Unskilled Samsung's engineers? Who knows..
DrSlump76 said:
Hi
digital zoom during video recording is not applied by a simple bilinear calculation. Its quite the opposite:
No zoom -> use the whole sensor area and then "downsample" it to obtain the desired dimensions
Zoom->Sample the exact dimension from the center of the sensor.
Infact, if you watch two videos of the same scene taken with the sgs2 720P and then 1080P, you will notice that the 1080P give a zoomed effect, becouse samsung uses only the rectangle on the center of the sensor to sample the frames, while with 720P uses the whole sensor area.
Power limitations? Unskilled Samsung's engineers? Who knows..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that it's neither power limitations or unskilled samsung engineers. At 1080p, it uses most of the sensor, so zooming in will decrease the quality of the image to the point of being pointless at filming 1080p.
The reason why 720p uses the entire sensor area is because it does something called pixel binning. It uses the adjacent pixels to determine which color/info is more accurate (so a single pixel in the middle uses the ones around it to determine which color is closer to the actual source).
See here for more info:
http://www.svi.nl/PixelBinning
With pixel binning, you get less noise but at a cost of lower resolution. Therefore, they implemented zoom for 720p and the reason why 720p uses the entire sensor.
So the reason for why the 720p uses the entire sensor and 1080p only uses a section IS due to hardware limitations. 1080p needs at least a 12.4MP resolution for pixel binning.
As there is pixel binning, 720p will produce higher quality zooms than if 1080p could've zoomed using crop and bilinear enlargement (which will create pixelated images). That is why I assume they didn't include 1080p zoom - for quality purposes.
BTW - pixel binning is a technique also used by the iPhone 4.
DrSlump76 said:
Hi
digital zoom during video recording is not applied by a simple bilinear calculation. Its quite the opposite:
No zoom -> use the whole sensor area and then "downsample" it to obtain the desired dimensions
Zoom->Sample the exact dimension from the center of the sensor.
Infact, if you watch two videos of the same scene taken with the sgs2 720P and then 1080P, you will notice that the 1080P gives a zoomed effect, becouse samsung only uses the rectangle on the center of the sensor to sample the frames, while with 720P uses the whole sensor area.
Power limitations? Unskilled Samsung's engineers? Who knows..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats wrong! It's only correct if the sensor has the physical resolution that surpasses the target res by 2 exactly! Look at my previous post, I explain it a bit better. Your taking about sensor crop and pixel binning, not digital zoom.
Oh and bilinear is not simple, when you think of the amount of subpixel influence you have to create.
Neways, point is digital zoom creates pixels from thin air, well, programatically. So the detail is not present, hence why digital zoom is a consumer buzz than a valued feature.
Thanks for your replies guys. I would like to bring two more arguments for my theory:
1) The 720P recordings that we can find in the net shows a low quality zoom
2) In the other hand, there are some videos taken with the htc sensation that shows an almost perfect zoom @ 1080P
The question is:
if the htc product uses virtually the same sensor of the sgs2, how can they implement the zoom??
Here a video sample with digital zoom @1080P:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZDcpggOHRc&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP9E838D931C71486D
Thanks!
DrSlump76 said:
Thanks for your replies guys. I would like to bring two more arguments for my theory:
1) The 720P recordings that we can find in the net shows a low quality zoom
2) In the other hand, there are some videos taken with the htc sensation that shows an almost perfect zoom @ 1080P
The question is:
if the htc product uses virtually the same sensor of the sgs2, how can they implement the zoom??
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The answer is: Digital Zoom lol
Tis easy to see in the video that detail is lost, pixel get bigger then filtered etc. So Digital Zoom is a software feature, not hardware!
Also people seem to forget a few very important things regarding capture quality, the bitrate of the encoding profile in use. From what I see the sgs2 has a variable 10-14mbit profile active for full HD. Some of my pro cameras use 35-50mbit. So I'm going to look into how to mod this if i can since the hardware should be able to handle a higher rate, busy at the mo though.
at the end of the day though, tis a phone, if you want really good quality get a pro sumer hd cam, or a 5dmk2, or if you won the lottery get a Red Epic and shoot 5k res at 1000's fps. However none of those have mail/chat or phone capabilities
for 1080p are taken 1920x1080 pixels from the center of 8Mp sensor... (in this manner there is a "zoom effect" of about 2x and less view)
for other resolutions are applied pixel binning tecnhique (all pixel from sensor are used, and is scaling from 8mp to output video resolution)
take original pixels produces better quality (because are original pixels and not scaled), but less signal/noise ratio (but, because galaxys2 sensor is good, noise is low also if you take original pixel and don't use pixel binning that increases signal/noise ratio)..
also, use original pixels and don't use pixel binning, requires less power (in this manner you can have 1080p video at about 30fps and high bitrate)
deanwray said:
The answer is: Digital Zoom lol
Tis easy to see in the video that detail is lost, pixel get bigger then filtered etc. So Digital Zoom is a software feature, not hardware!
Also people seem to forget a few very important things regarding capture quality, the bitrate of the encoding profile in use. From what I see the sgs2 has a variable 10-14mbit profile active for full HD. Some of my pro cameras use 35-50mbit. So I'm going to look into how to mod this if i can since the hardware should be able to handle a higher rate, busy at the mo though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok deanwray, you're perfectly right, but i would prefer to choose by myself if i wish to use the zoom or not, awared that if i use the digital zoom, the quality will be affected. In the other hand, in this way, the 1080P video would have better field of view (instead of the zoomed effect we have now) and less noise.
About the bitrate: maybe it's possible to raise it to 20Mbit, but i think that going above this limit is quite difficult. According to me, it's better to implement the zoom in 1080P and a better audio recording.
I was thinking: if they're unable to implement such features... how can we hope to obtain higher bitrates.. ?
DrSlump76 said:
Ok deanwray, you're perfectly right, but i would prefer to choose by myself if i wish to use the zoom or not, awared that if i use the digital zoom, the quality will be affected. In the other hand, in this way, the 1080P video would have better field of view (instead of the zoomed effect we have now) and less noise.
About the bitrate: maybe it's possible to raise it to 20Mbit, but i think that going above this limit is quite difficult. According to me, it's better to implement the zoom in 1080P and a better audio recording.
I was thinking: if they're unable to implement such features... how can we hope to obtain higher bitrates.. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's not firmware (camera firmware) limited, there are calls in the android sdk to set bitrate, I would probably look at writing a camera when I have time. Never looked at attempting to mod the default one. Have found something odd though, did a few tests, and there should be perceptual zoom due to sensor cropping at 720p, but compared against an 8mp photo, there aint! So thats a bit wierd to me
deanwray said:
If it's not firmware (camera firmware) limited, there are calls in the android sdk to set bitrate, I would probably look at writing a camera when I have time. Never looked at attempting to mod the default one. Have found something odd though, did a few tests, and there should be perceptual zoom due to sensor cropping at 720p, but compared against an 8mp photo, there aint! So thats a bit wierd to me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to you, is it possible to modify/create a camera app that implements a digital zoom or better algorithms for image sampling?
What kind of access is possible to gain to the application processor's peripherals with android os?
There are some realtime image scaling algorithms that could be implemented via gpu or, better, via dsp if the exynos integrates a dsp onboard (like the TI's omap do).
With all this talk about cameras and comparing it with other phones like the Note 5 / S6, iPhone 6S, etc.
A little fact I noticed that I haven't seen brought up by reviewers is the 6P's sensor size. It has one of the largest sensors in a PHONE. In fact, the sensor size is equivalent to point and shoots:
Nexus 6P: 1/2.3"
Galaxy S6 / Note 5: 1/2.6"
iPhone 6S: 1/3"
iPhone 6: 1/3"
Xperia Z5: 1/2.3"
Canon Powershot SX610HS: 1/2.3"
Sony Cybershot DSC-RX10 II: 1" :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
During the launch it was mentioned by Huawei and Google that the sensor used in 6P was originally developed for camcorders .. So the large size is understandable and that may also be the reason for that hump design
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It was also part of the reason that OIS was not implemented because it would not fit.
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
larger sensor = larger area = larger pixels
pixels is what senses light and makes the picture... the more light they absorb the better the picture quality specially in lower light
Smaller than the M8 though I think.
Batfink33 said:
Smaller than the M8 though I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did a quick check and the M8 had a 1/3"...so same size as the iphones
mosincredible said:
It was also part of the reason that OIS was not implemented because it would not fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't the Z5 have OIS? I'm sure it could've been done but would've increase the price of the phone quite a bit. I personally don't think OIS would be worth the cost/benefit for photos. For video sure it helps, but I don't care that much about video.
Granted the Sony's Xperia is not nearly as popular or available as a phone in the states as it is Overseas. When I was in Asia a couple months ago there were Xperias everywhere.
itch808 said:
Doesn't the Z5 have OIS? I'm sure it could've been done but would've increase the price of the phone quite a bit. I personally don't think OIS would be worth the cost/benefit for photos. For video sure it helps, but I don't care that much about video.
Granted the Sony's Xperia is not nearly as popular or available as a phone in the states as it is Overseas. When I was in Asia a couple months ago there were Xperias everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Z5 has digital image stabilization.
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A larger sensor has more surface area allowing it to adsorb more light. Light is the information used to capture an image and a larger sensor will have more of it. Camera sensors and optics are very much limited by physics. There are other things at play like pixel size which will be determined by megapixels over surface area and ISO sensitivity, but generally everything improves as the sensor get larger with the tradeoff of increased size.
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Large sensor=large pixels= less noise in image. Noise is the bane of cameras and will make any pro photographer cringe.
For the same reason Pro level DSLRs are not very high in megapixel (getting less and less valid however) because they can keep the pixel size large on their huge sensors. For a long time the top end Canon and Nikon were only 12.1MP, might not seem like a lot but on a huge sensor it lets in a butt ton of light. This reduces noise which is the biggest issues in cameras. You will notice if you take a picture at night and its really grainy, that is noise and destroys quality. Also the large pixel size lets in more light so at night time exposures can be quicker and less blurry. The main reason why the 6P is keeping up with cameras with OIS, because it can take faster exposures. I can only imagine how good this camera would be at night with OIS.
itch808 said:
I just did a quick check and the M8 had a 1/3"...so same size as the iphones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although the M8 had larger sensels, it just had a lot less of them so the sensor was smaller. M8 and M7 had 2µm sensels versus our 1.55µm.
I don't think you've read many reviews...
Lots of reviews have mentioned this and the sensor size has been highlighted by Google.
But the S6 is said to have a 1/2" sensor so 6P can shine for now
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The advantages of a large image sensor means that each light pixel is further away from each other creating less electrical noise which translates into "grainy" pictures using high ISOs
There's a camera discussion thread here,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/nexus-6p-camera-t3216218
No need for two. :good:
Thread closed.
Darth
Forum Moderator
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
I saw one user in other post commenting to check the megapixel from google photo but when i check photo detail in google photo ,it doesnt show the megapixel of camera.....
Hope it help
Emo Darkemotion said:
Hope it help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have taken this pic with the miui camera right?
Try it with any other camera app..like open camera or any other app.
Yeah you are right
I read that the camera combines input from 4 pixels into a single "ultra pixel" type construct, so you get less noise and ultimately a better shot. So though there are 20 million pixels, they generate 5 million pixels worth of data. That's quite a lot - should be plenty for your needs!
thesoupthief said:
I read that the camera combines input from 4 pixels into a single "ultra pixel" type construct, so you get less noise and ultimately a better shot. So though there are 20 million pixels, they generate 5 million pixels worth of data. That's quite a lot - should be plenty for your needs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be.
But the sensor is a 5 mega pixel sensor only and they have said that its a 20 mp sensor.
That's what i'm trying to say!
Gamerbhai said:
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't understand what this fuss is all about?
Rather than stressing on the specs and megapixels isn't it better to look at the results. For me the selfie quality is more than acceptable specially in this price range and coupled with the latest gen processors, ram, storage etc it becomes great in my opinion and make it a balanced phone.
Manufacturers will always use creative advertising to lure customers
sanjay0501 said:
I can't understand what this fuss is all about?
Rather than stressing on the specs and megapixels isn't it better to look at the results. For me the selfie quality is more than acceptable specially in this price range and coupled with the latest gen processors, ram, storage etc it becomes great in my opinion and make it a balanced phone.
Manufacturers will always use creative advertising to lure customers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a customer i need to know what i'm purchasing and even though the quality is good they might have lied to us about the sensor and the miui camera might just stretch the 5 mp photo to a 20 mp photo.
what if they told you its a snapdragon 845 but they give a snapdragon 835..the results would still be good. You would be okay with that?
Gamerbhai said:
As a customer i need to know what i'm purchasing and even though the quality is good they might have lied to us about the sensor and the miui camera might just stretch the 5 mp photo to a 20 mp photo.
what if they told you its a snapdragon 845 but they give a snapdragon 835..the results would still be good. You would be okay with that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well technically u can't say they r wrong. If it is mentioned it is a 20 mp selfie camera and they collate 4 mp x 5 and make it 20, where's the legal problem. Yes morally and ethically it can be questioned like all the mfr recognising benchmarking apps and pushing their system to give false high reading.
It would have been wrong if instead of Sony imxxx sensor on the rear they put in some inferior one.
Imho thisbselfi camera cannot be equates to putting inn835 instead of sd845
Gamerbhai said:
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, technically, they are right. The sensor they buy and put in those phones is 20mp. They then, by software at the OS level, "bin" 4 0.8µ pixels together to get bigger "effective" pixels.
Gamerbhai said:
That may be.
But the sensor is a 5 mega pixel sensor only and they have said that its a 20 mp sensor.
That's what i'm trying to say!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sensor is not 5mp. It is 20mp as stated in all the marketing guff. The data is interpolated to generate higher quality 5mp pictures.
There may be ways to generate noisy 20mp RAW files but it would be a fool's erand just to get a worse selfie pic 4 times the filesize.
The information I have was just as available to you as it was to me ahead of buying the device. No point sounding all butthurt just because you don't really understand something.
This is the selfie camera sensor
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/image-sensor/mobile-image-sensor/S5K3T1/
Open Dialler and type "*#*#64663#*#* and them select "Check version info" and scroll down you would see camera module used , here is mine
as everyone said its pixel binning
OP you are commpletely wrong.BTW talked to AIDM64 dev, he was saying MI is usinng non standard API, which could be reason for wrong value.It's 20MP physical camera.Through software they do pixel binning and convert back to 20MP.
hrishi420 said:
OP you are commpletely wrong.BTW talked to AIDM64 dev, he was saying MI is usinng non standard API, which could be reason for wrong value.It's 20MP physical camera.Through software they do pixel binning and convert back to 20MP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
20MP > binning to 5MP > 20MP interpolation
Yeah, I read the same.
Wondering how much storage space will one picture take for the Google Pixel 6 take with the new 50MP camera. My current Google XL 2 using a 12MP camera would take ~5MB/picture.
The sensor uses pixel binning, so the output image is 12,5 MP.
The binned picture file size is also worryingly low. I wish they gave us more.optiions to select and store higher quality images and video.
You can always save in raw + jpeg, though I'm not entirely sure if it processes the raw image
This main 50 megspixel camera is compressing the photo so much that having 50 mp is useless. Too much compression and still using their computational technology at 12 megapixels so we aren't really seeing what the difference a 50 megapixel camera would make. File sizes should be 25 mb or higher with a jpeg at 50 megapixels. Yes I'm a photographer
treIII said:
This main 50 megspixel camera is compressing the photo so much that having 50 mp is useless. Too much compression and still using their computational technology at 12 megapixels so we aren't really seeing what the difference a 50 megapixel camera would make. File sizes should be 25 mb or higher with a jpeg at 50 megapixels. Yes I'm a photographer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right. Apart from some improvement to noise levels and colour, the details are virtually the same as my pixel 4xl.
I think the only real benefit of the 50MP sensor is when you zoom (hopefully). So when you zoom in it no longer pixel bins and you're using a native 12MP section of the sensor before you get into digital-only zoom.
WibblyW said:
I think the only real benefit of the 50MP sensor is when you zoom (hopefully). So when you zoom in it no longer pixel bins and you're using a native 12MP section of the sensor before you get into digital-only zoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't found that to be the case. There is a 2x zoom that doesn't look too bad (slightly oilpaint like) and a 4x that is the optical zoom on the telephoto sensor that's very good... Another issue is the camera automatically switches between the main sensor at 4x and the telephoto 4x sensor depending on focal distance so you can't use the 4x optical to take close shots.
So what's the point of a 50MP sensor binned to 12.5MP if it always does it? Why not use a native 12.5MP sensor and get even more light in, by avoiding the gaps between the pixels used in each 'bin'?
WibblyW said:
So what's the point of a 50MP sensor binned to 12.5MP if it always does it? Why not use a native 12.5MP sensor and get even more light in, by avoiding the gaps between the pixels used in each 'bin'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better low light, better noise reduction
WibblyW said:
So what's the point of a 50MP sensor binned to 12.5MP if it always does it? Why not use a native 12.5MP sensor and get even more light in, by avoiding the gaps between the pixels used in each 'bin'?
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As above, better noise level and light input.
Definitely better pictures on the main and 4x sensor than the pixel 4 xl for sure.
I just wish we had a full size version and higher quality image export.
So using 4x small pixels in a bin is better than one big one the same size for noise/light (assuming the technologies are the same)?
Ok so that seems to be the case
Hamamatsu Learning Center: Pixel Binning
A charge-coupled device (CCD) is a semiconductor ideally suited for use in digital imaging applications as a means of transferring integrated photogenerated charge.
hamamatsu.magnet.fsu.edu
Photos would be much better in well-lit situations using 50 megapixels. Pixel binning down to 12 megapixels would be fine in low light but it's not acceptable to me to do this in well-lit situations. They need an update for the camera to decide when the situation is lit well enough to use the 50 megapixels and to decide when it's not lit well enough and use the 12.5 megapixels as they are. Because regardless of what anyone thinks s 50 megapixel photo would have much more detail than what's being done now by binning every photo. Google has to make a decision to move forward with their camera and use it to its fullest potential in which they are not doing now.
If i want a photo with 50 mpx can i just use raw ? Or it still bins?
DMart9406 said:
If i want a photo with 50 mpx can i just use raw ? Or it still bins?
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Still a 12mp image. The file size is larger however and there's more info from the sensor to play with.
RAW images will also not be compressed in a lossy way
Maybe some gcam ports will allow us to take photos in 50 mpx...
I invite you to my post here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/samsung-isocell-gn1-sensor.4359031/#post-85911883
Its a quad Bayer subpixel layout. Because it groups four of the same color pixel together it only has 12.5 mp of color data. The 50 mp claim is marketing bs. Essentially it just upscales the 12.5 mp image using the extra luma data. The sensor is also too small for 50 mp to turn out well.
The main advantage is you can do an HDR photo with one exposure. Because there's four subpixels, you can have four different exposure values with one photo. Although I don't think Google is utilizing this.
A 50mp picture would be a total waste with the lenses in these phones. The "extra" detail that a 50mp could show would be offset by the poor quality lenses (I'm speaking in general terms here - not specifically about one phone or another). These tiny phone lenses can only produce so much sharpness, clarity and detail. In other words, eventually it's the lenses that are the limiting factor in the picture quality and putting in a sensor with such high resolution that it greatly exceeds the quality of the lens will not produce better images.
By binning the sensor pixels, you get the benefit of "larger pixels" (so more light absorption) without exceeding the quality limitations of the lenses.
ok the pixel6 has three cameras. the front camera is self explanatory. but the stock camera app is very lacking in into.
1. what is the picture spec of "medium" photo resolution vs "full"
2. why would i want to switch between the two back cameras and how do i do that?
3. there are 5 things on the back camera block, what are they in order from left to right?
4. what is .7 vs 1x vs 2x? is it optical zoom or digital zoom? and how do they get .7 zoom? shouldn't .7 be 1x and the others adapted .
and no googling for answers did not revel any info.
all anyone seems to want to talk about is the software picture tweaks not the hardware and how you can use it,
I can take pictures of squirrels (Tree rats) with the Google camera app.
And Opossums with the night vision.
Just add, I believe you need to have a Google account to access all of the cameras app features.
Imo, these questions are easily answered by most reviews. Here's a review that tells you a lot about the camera.
pixel 6 specs
1. Medium vs full is going to be the amount of compression used. I don't know why you wouldn't ever use full.
2. You have to switch between cameras if you want different zoom since they use fixed focal length lenses. One is .7x and the other is x1.
3. Left sensor is the 50MP (x1) sensor, next is the x7 sensor, next is the laser auto focus sensor, and then the flash and I believe a microphone is above the flash. Just use your finger to cover one of the cameras if you don't believe me.
4. The main camera is used for x1, that's a 50mp sensor that uses 4->1 binning so it produces 12.5MP images. The .7x is just uses a more zoomed out focal length than the main sensor (lower quality sensor too). x2 is digital zoom on the main x1 sensor.
Gibsonflyingv said:
Imo, these questions are easily answered by most reviews. Here's a review that tells you a lot about the camera.
pixel 6 specs
1. Medium vs full is going to be the amount of compression used. I don't know why you wouldn't ever use full.
2. You have to switch between cameras if you want different zoom since they use fixed focal length lenses. One is .7x and the other is x1.
3. Left sensor is the 50MP (x1) sensor, next is the x7 sensor, next is the laser auto focus sensor, and then the flash and I believe a microphone is above the flash. Just use your finger to cover one of the cameras if you don't believe me.
4. The main camera is used for x1, that's a 50mp sensor that uses 4->1 binning so it produces 12.5MP images. The .7x is just uses a more zoomed out focal length than the main sensor (lower quality sensor too). x2 is digital zoom on the main x1 sensor.
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And if you think that is Kool.
Try using an Endoscope camera with the P6.
It really worked well for me trying to see up inside the dash of a classic car. (86 Monte)