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Anybody tried to use standart HTC 5V wall charger for Flyer?
I have HD2 and its charger can safely give 1A. This type of chargers have USB data pins shortened. So all HTC devices conneced by standart USB cable identifies it as AC charger. I have tried to connect Flyer for a half a minute. Charger was identified as AC and as I remeber (not shure...and afraid to test once more) Flyer was sucking more than 1A (Battery monitor pro).
Flyer AC charger is 9V 1.62A, standart charger 5V 1A so question is do Flyer detects difference between Flyer charger and Standart 5V charger? Is it safe and possible to use standart 5V charger?
yes you can use standard USB, it will just charge slower
DigitalMD said:
yes you can use standard USB, it will just charge slower
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Have you tried or you just think so?
If flyer tries to get more than 1A, yes it will charge slower, but it will also burn charger.
I charge with reg usb all the time
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
I do it routinely. The device cannot draw more than the usb port will supply. PC ports supply only 0.5 amp. So they will only work if you turn the power off the Flyer. Wall chargers vary, some supply 1 amp. The original is 9v 1.6 amp were usb chargers typically are 5v so they will charge slower, much slower in some cases.
DigitalMD said:
I do it routinely. The device cannot draw more than the usb port will supply. PC ports supply only 0.5 amp. So they will only work if you turn the power off the Flyer. Wall chargers vary, some supply 1 amp. The original is 9v 1.6 amp were usb chargers typically are 5v so they will charge slower, much slower in some cases.
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Sorry for last several anoying questions. Just want to be shure.
1. Do you use HTC charger or other vendor? In most cases only HTC 5V chargers are identified as 1A AC chargers. If not - device will not request more tha 500ma in order not to burn USB port (device thinks that it is port in that case)
2. Did you see that Flyer identified charger as AC source?
3. Did you charge when battery was less than 10%, what was charge current value on Flyer
Ok, now its getting annoying, did you actually read the information I put in the post you quoted? You just ask me the same questions I already answered.
The chargers all run on AC and produce DC . Flyer original output is 9 Vdc 1.6 amp .
DigitalMD said:
Ok, now its getting annoying, did you actually read the information I put in the post you quoted? You just ask me the same questions I already answered.
The chargers all run on AC and produce DC . Flyer original output is 9 Vdc 1.6 amp .
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Sorry but I think you did not gave the anwer. My english is not so good so maybe the question was not clear. I will try to explain once more, it is up to you to answer or just end this conversation/thread if you think i asked same stupid question once more.
1. Usually non HTC 5V chargers on HTC devices are identified as USB port and thats why devices draws no more than 500mA. It made so no to burn USB port.
2. All 5V HTC chargers on HTC devices are identified as AC 1A, so devices try to get as much as thay can (usually phones request less than 1A).
3. HTC Flyer with empty battery can request no more than 9*1.6A=14.4W. Flyer charger can handle that. Standart can handle only 5*1A=5W.
The question was: do 5V 1A HTC charger will not burn because Flyer identifies charger as AC and can request more than 1A. USB ports usually have protection from current. I do not know if 5V HTC chargers has protection or do Flyer identifies difference between 9v and 5v chargers and sets max current it can get from charger?
extra pins not present on a usb cable for mains charging. if using usb cables the the flyer is a usb device and has the same power restrictions as any other device...simple as that.
globatron said:
extra pins not present on a usb cable for mains charging. if using usb cables the the flyer is a usb device and has the same power restrictions as any other device...simple as that.
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You are not right.
HTC 5V HTC mains charger comes with standart USB cable with no extra pins. Thats true. But mains charger has Data+and Data- shortened inside what makes HTC phones think that it is mains... with any USB cable. So power restrictions will not be as for USB....but as for AC. I have tested that in practice. I made belkin car charger and iphone charger able to be treated as mains chargers just by connecting pins (iphone charger data pins should be disconnected from schema before connecting. I have secret how to connect pins without opening unopenable iPhone charger....).
So the question is Flyer is able to identify mains 5V1A and 9V1.6A difference and do it apply different restrictions. Now for both shows it as AC source and I think sucks as much amps as it can up to 1.6A. So teoretically it should burn 5V charger if it will suck more than 1A.
What are you trying to do exactly?
---------- Post added at 06:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------
by the way, it is standard, not standart.
I use the Flyer with a variety of USB wall chargers, car chargers and PC ports and have never experienced fire or explosion, only charging and slow charging. Are you trying to figure out how to use a different charger and still get a rapid charge rate?
Ok, I think I understand what the question really is but it is poorly phrased.
On my previous statement I agree with your answer in terms of how it is possible to read what I had said, in fact probably the logical way to read it on re-reading what I wrote, what I meant was electrically present, not that there were extra physical pins, whether electrically present is hi or lo doesn't matter.
If the question is can you rapid charge at 5V from a sufficiently powerful 5v then the answer is no, even if you pull D+ and D- to ground. Also it is highly likely that in the AC charger a resistor rather than direct connection is used to pull them to ground and these resistors could be electrically significant in the overall charging circuit.
The most probable reason for this is that there are two parallel charging circuits in the flyer ( almost certain of this ), and hence why 9v is used. The charge voltage for a 3.7v battery is 4.2 volts and somewhere around 500-750mA, the second charging circuit will have an isolation circuit to ensure that it is only engaged for charging purposes and does not directly feed the tablet that would be the purpose of the modified connections of d+ and d-, activate the secondary charging circuit.
Assuming you feed the device 5v from usb that would mean that the second circuit would receive a 0.8v supply, probably (hopefully) not enough to activate it so you just burn up the extra as heat in the circuit. In theory you would see a higher current draw by asking the flyer to run as if it was connected to an 9v supply when you connect a 5v supply. Best and most likely case scenario you're just being inefficient, medium case you burn out a component or protection (eg thermal fuse), worst case scenario you reverse the battery and it gets damaged or explodes.
globatron said:
Assuming you feed the device 5v from usb that would mean that the second circuit would receive a 0.8v supply, probably (hopefully) not enough to activate it so you just burn up the extra as heat in the circuit. In theory you would see a higher current draw by asking the flyer to run as if it was connected to an 9v supply when you connect a 5v supply. Best and most likely case scenario you're just being inefficient, medium case you burn out a component or protection (eg thermal fuse), worst case scenario you reverse the battery and it gets damaged or explodes.
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This is what i meant! I was curious which one of scenarious will happen in practice.
From DigitalMD post above I can make a conclusion that in reality we will have 1st scenario (just inefficient).
Thank you guys.
I recommend you look at the following USB battery charging spec. A properly designed charging circuit will have current limiting and can recognize the power capabilities of the port vs. device vs. cable. This is why some charging circuits use a special cable vs. a standard USB data cable.
http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Battery_Charging_V1_2.zip
Nice link, it's got some pretty decent information in it.
Honestly to answer your previous question I can't tell, I'm guessing nothing except some heat, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't thermally damage something ( eg the screen ).
globatron said:
Nice link, it's got some pretty decent information in it.
Honestly to answer your previous question I can't tell, I'm guessing nothing except some heat, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't thermally damage something ( eg the screen ).
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I think that there is no chance to damage Flyer thermally But theoretically, if Flyer wll requests more than 1A charger can overheet and possibly damage the Flyer. But if Flyer can detect that charger as 5V1A and if it can request less than 1A, then it is safe. Also if charger can detect current higher than 1A and can limit it - that also should be safe to use it.
I will read pdf maybe there will be some good info.
I use a self powered usb hub as a daily charger for both my Flyer and Kindle. Works fine. With no "burning out". At work, I use a generic 5v 1a charger, no problems either except for charge speed...
The charge state shows USB instead of AC, so it appears there is some sort of voltage/amp sensing going on?
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
kardain said:
I use a self powered usb hub as a daily charger for both my Flyer and Kindle. Works fine. With no "burning out". At work, I use a generic 5v 1a charger, no problems either except for charge speed...
The charge state shows USB instead of AC, so it appears there is some sort of voltage/amp sensing going on?
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
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Your flyer identifies charger and hub as USB and limits current to 500ma. The initial discussion was about the case when 5V1A charger is identified as AC. This case happens when standart htc phone charger is used (eg HD2 charger). That charger has data pins shortened inside that makes HTC phones (conected by standart USB cable) think that charger is AC. Surprisingly Flyer identifies it also as AC. In that case flyer do not limit current and possibly tries to draw 15W from 5V charger which can deliver only 5W ! I think that good chargers should have protection from oveload....
So soldering data pins together in you generic charger would make it more efficient. I modified my all generic chargers even genuine iphone charger and now all HTC and possibly other phones identify them as AC !! But I still not shure is that safe for flyer.
Little bit offtopic:
Yesterday i dissasembled Griffin car charger thas has 2x1A USB ports. In fact there is a chip inside that can deliver up to 3A. The chip is XL1583E1. This chip can be set to deliver other voltage than 5V by changing resistor.
It would be nice to get somewhere flyer pinouts and see if it uses the same pins for 5V and 9V charging. If the same - it means that this car charger can charge flyer as fast as flyer mains charger just coupling data pins (now it has identifications circuitry for iphone -resistors between vcc,data,data,vdd). If not - it means that charger shoud be modified to deliver 9V and special cable with extra pins will be needed also.
you sure are going through a lot of contortions just to do same things that the HTC charger that comes in the box already does. Why not use the adapter made for the device?
I have read somewhere (been searching for hrs but can't find) that the charge current via the mains is higher than via USB. I have the Genuine Samsung car charger and that works fine even with GPS running but I would like to wire a charging cable into the car so the cables are hidden.
I have a 12v cigarette lighter to USB (2amp) but using a standard USB to micro USB cable it only charges at the lower rate and on long trips the S2 goes flat!!!
Is there a resistor between pins or pins to short to make the S2 believe it is on mains charging and thus charge at the higher current?
Thanks for any help you can give.
What you need is a charge-only cable (usb to micro usb). Most cables out there are data cables. You can get the charge-only cables at your local radio Shack or equivalent. These cables have two of the pins shorted to provide that extra current required.
Also, the charge current limit is coded as part of the kernel. You can flash Siyahkernel and it provides a script where you can change this limit. I've tried this myself but the charging rate didn't have any real improvement but it's supposed to. Ymmv
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
dikai_yang said:
Also, the charge current limit is coded as part of the kernel. You can flash Siyahkernel and it provides a script where you can change this limit. I've tried this myself but the charging rate didn't have any real improvement but it's supposed to. Ymmv
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I increased the usb charge current to 800mA and now my phone charges in 3 hours compared to 4 hours from a dead battery.
Btw this is with a regular data cable connected to the pc and not to the charger.
Thanks very much for the replies.
The charge-only cables don't seem to be in the UK for some reason?
Any ideas which pins to short?
Thanks
On the 4-pin rectangular USB connector, it's the two data pins in the middle of the connector (2 and 3). You want a resistance of 200 ohms or less. I would do the mod on the charger itself -- that way any USB cable will work with that charger, and you don't have to keep track of a charge-only cable.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
That's great. I will solder the pins on the charger. Thanks very much.
I have the original charger that came with our X10, I also have a 3rd party car charger and I charger for a different phone in my office. I use all 3 of these chargers to keep my X10 charged up.
My question is this. Do all USB chargers have the same voltage and amp specifications?
So will my car/office charger damage my phone?
Jamolah said:
I have the original charger that came with our X10, I also have a 3rd party car charger and I charger for a different phone in my office. I use all 3 of these chargers to keep my X10 charged up.
My question is this. Do all USB chargers have the same voltage and amp specifications?
So will my car/office charger damage my phone?
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USB is 5V as long as I remember. I've charged my phone with car & galaxy s2 charger and it is still working, so it shouldn't make any difference.
Usb is what the pc pumps out
Car charger is what the adaptor pumps out,same for mains charger.
Chargers normally tell you what current what is pumped out,so check that out.
Usb must be more of a trickle charge...
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
USB Charger
Well for me, the USB cable is broken (never really understood why the design for microUSB's had the little flimsy teeth at the end). I simply replaced the cable with an LG brand and attached it to the original Sony charging block. Havent had any problems since.
I know different chargers have different amps, but what i dont know is how much the phone (battery) can take at a time, even if the charger is 10 amp it doesnt been the phone get fully charge in 10 min.
Look for how much the charger gives out is not hard cause its label, but how much does the phone take?
cant seem to edit my thread (TYPO) nor find it on my profile, maybe its my browser.
Samsung phones charge at about 800mA. Samsung chargers have the two middle pins (data pins) soldered. Any regular charger, even with 2Amps will only max at about 330mA charging. The phone needs to detect that the two data pins are soldered. So higher Amps is not equal to faster charging unless you are using a Samsung charger or you have the data pins soldered( pretend to be Samsung charger)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
No. The phone will regulated the charging on the device as lipoly batteries have a specific charging method. It is possible (for example) that the device may charge at 500mA maximum current draw, but a charger is rated at 1A. This would meen that the charger could output 1A without the voltage falling so in theory the usb output could be split between two devices. If the charger was rated at 300mA but the device needed 500mA then the output voltage may be very unstable and damage either the phone or the charger.
Choosing a higher rated charger will not charge the phone faster. Any attempt to do so with Lipoly chemistry could result in explosion.
Sent from my U20i using Tapatalk 2
This is were i got my info from:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1384253
Were did you get yours from?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
So my charger met with an untimely demise. I am unable to get my hands on a replacement one at the moment.
I am currently using my computer's USB port which as you will know doesn't give quite enough juice. I have seen a microusb charger with 5V and 2A. Will this do a job (and also not get rid of the message that i am drawing more juice than the battery is getting)?
I use the charger that came with my Evo 4g. It needs to sit overnight, but it charges to green.
milomak said:
So my charger met with an untimely demise. I am unable to get my hands on a replacement one at the moment.
I am currently using my computer's USB port which as you will know doesn't give quite enough juice. I have seen a microusb charger with 5V and 2A. Will this do a job (and also not get rid of the message that i am drawing more juice than the battery is getting)?
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Click to collapse
No.
The reason for the strange shape USB lead HTC have is that it gives 9V and 1.7A - 5V isn't going to cut it, it will charge but ever so slowly and if you try to charge whilst using it you'll probably find it doesn't, it just discharges more slowly.
If I were to take an old wall wart I have here that is 9V and 2A and wire a standard micro USB cable to it, would that work to charge my flyer quickly? In other words is the strange connector necessary or just the 9V and 2A?
Sent from my PG41200 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
bsoplinger said:
If I were to take an old wall wart I have here that is 9V and 2A and wire a standard micro USB cable to it, would that work to charge my flyer quickly? In other words is the strange connector necessary or just the 9V and 2A?
Sent from my PG41200 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
NO, because the fast charge requires the special connector on the HTC power cord , a micro-usb will not allow the Flyer to draw the high current.
DigitalMD said:
NO, because the fast charge requires the special connector on the HTC power cord , a micro-usb will not allow the Flyer to draw the high current.
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so an adaptor with a usb slot and using the usb cable would work?
milomak said:
so an adaptor with a usb slot and using the usb cable would work?
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If you're using the HTC-specific microUSB cable, the adaptor would have to provide the correct amount of power (9V and 1.7A). Most usb power adaptors do not provide the adequate amount. A little while back, I made the mistake of taking just my phone usb adaptor to charge everything on a trip out of the country for nearly two months. It worked great for everything except for my View. Even though I had the HTC-specific usb cable for the View, it was still like charging via a computer usb port. It would get the job done if I left it all day or all night, but it took forever to charge.
I really would try to track down an OEM charger. Even if you find a usb adaptor that puts out the right amount of power, it still might not provide the short amount of charging time that the OEM charger does. It should theoretically, but many users have had charging time woes when using anything but the OEM charger.
DigitalMD said:
NO, because the fast charge requires the special connector on the HTC power cord , a micro-usb will not allow the Flyer to draw the high current.
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No it doesn't. A member of my site took the OEM charger, wired a 90 degree micro USB port to it, charges at full speed.
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Volts and Amps - PowerFlask
From the posts on this subject it seems that the Powerflask 13000 mAh powerbank I bought today and which charges at 5.3 volt with a 1amp and 2.5 amp port won't properly charge my flyer?
Can I safely use the 2.5amp port or should I rather stick to the 1amp port.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Maffs,
Maffs said:
From the posts on this subject it seems that the Powerflask 13000 mAh powerbank I bought today and which charges at 5.3 volt with a 1amp and 2.5 amp port won't properly charge my flyer?
Can I safely use the 2.5amp port or should I rather stick to the 1amp port.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Click to collapse
Folks on here have mentioned that the device (and other tablet/smartphone devices) will only draw the amount of current (amps) it needs. So using a charger with a higher amp rating is not a concern (in theory).
But I think others have debated this, and even made claims of higher volt/amp rated chargers damaging their devices (however anecdotal).
In any case, from the responses on this thread, it appears that any charger that doesn't have HTC's proprietary connector that they used for the Flyer, will charge the tablet very slowly. I just plugged my Flyer into a microUSB charger the other day (just got back from a trip, and my stock charger was still packed), and it charged extremely slowly. It was slower than I remembered it being. It was plugged in for maybe 4 hours, and only increased the charge by 10 or 15%.
PowerFlask Volts and Amps
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
I ran a quick test and connected the Flyer to the battery pack.
The flyer charged from 76% to 84% in 30 minutes . I realise that such a short charge isn't a proper test but it looks promising.
I used the 1amp port and will as you cautioned avoid the 2.5 amp port.
Maffs