Related
http://www.geek.com/first-look-qualcomms-new-fairbanks-and-anchorage-mobile-platforms/
The anchorage with its tasty 1ghz processor seems like it might be a easy replacement for the x7500. Who knows when it will arrive and in what shape internally. Some nice xp or linux action on the anchorage might be nice.
I saw that too, and am really interested in getting more info. However, I would still like it to run window mobile, hopefully wm7. XP will be a bad news for me. XP is simply not appropriate as a mobile, from the viewpoint of battery efficiency, software availability, instant on capability, etc. I'll be disappointed if it is Linux, as third party software just isn't good enough.
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
HeartOfDarkness said:
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO phone is more for demonstration than actual utility. It is too tightly controlled by Steve Job. There isn't the same openness to foster third party software. Without the richness of third party software and choices, what you bought is what you get. It will always be limited relative to winmo devices. With winmo, each of us is able to change the device to our very individual taste.
I won't underestimate the power of microsoft to bring about a really good hand gestured based OS that works really really well with mobile devices, and that will heap frog the competition. May be wm7 feels like a late start, but I get the feeling that it will be solid.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
yetdy said:
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a 1ghz processor on a wm6 device is pretty pointless if you balance out barely-noticeable speed upgrade over loss of battery life. I have found the difference between windows mobile machines to be more about individual tweaks than the power of the processor: i certainly wasn't wowed by the Athena's performance after upgrading from a Hermes.
One thing windows needs to get right in the next upgrade is that it needs to LOOK AND FEEL NICE, and be EASY TO USE. This will take the windows mobile platform out of the nerd/office exec market and into the mainstream, something that just cannot be done at the moment despite the valiant tweaks of HTC with the Touch series.
Windows Mobile is fine for me, I'm used to it, but for the novice it's long-winded.
The performance of Windows mobile is abysmal when lined up against Linux and especially Apple machines: look at the smooth menu systems on Iphones, and the way the integrated pinch zoom mechanism fluidly drifts in and out. No programmer on earth could acheive these results around the current windows mobile architecture, this despite the fact that the Iphone has a 620mhz ARM processor comparable to the Athena's.
The Iphone is also capable of rendering web pages more reliably than the Athena - the only drawback in this respect is its meagre Edge connectivity.
Linux on the other hand has lots of potential:With open-source development, and loads of easily-ported software it's interesting to say the least.
Haavard Nord, the CE of a big mobile Linux developer recently said " if you want to build a phone using the Microsoft operating system it is pretty restricted what you can do with the user interface due to the licensing agreement between the customer and Microsoft. Microsoft wants to make sure everyone knows it’s a Windows Mobile phone so it limits what branding you can put on the phone."
This could cause problems for microsoft: the pda market is known to be decreasing, while Symbian continues to develop a huge foothold in the market.
If the capabilities of Symbian and Linux continue to develop then I see a great market loss for Microsoft unless they buck their ideas up and start WORKING with their manufacturers.
Get out of the fricking dark ages Microsoft before you screw up big time.
ONly a few weeks ago, leoni, I would have agreed with you about pretty much everyting but now, I have to say that WinCE (the "heart" of Windows MObile) is FAR from being that bad performance-wise, now that I have had the opportunity to dive deep into it (at work).
It's actually Windows Mobile that sucks, which basically is CE + crappy GUI, not Windows CE, and it's WinCE that you have to compare with LInux and stuff. Because Linux by itself may be cool, but you will not be able to run very heavy GUIs like Enlignhtenment on current mobile devices, however great Linux may be.
MY POINT being: WinCE is an extremely solid, fast and reliable OS. Simply looking at how 90% off all autonomous GPS run under WinCE, and knowing that the fastest of them are equipped with 300 MHz processors should convince you of that.
Look at what HTC, which is NOT a software company by far, managed to do for the Touch line in pretty much the blink of an eye.
It's the Windows Mobile team that needs some extremely heavily applied butt-kicking. Both because they still do not understand that people want simplicity and beauty on their mobile device, but also because they want to stick, absolutly, to this "Windows Desktop-like" GUI.
I *think* Microsoft finally got the message. But as they're also trying to converge all their OSes, the future is quite uncertain...
As to the iPhone 2... It's both way too remote, and way too "locked-down" a system to work for me... If Apple wants to have someone like me interested (and I don't mean they should necessarily, but we're talking about how Apple could please me with the iPhone2), they need to review their content management policies.
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6. They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
eaglesteve said:
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm which has lots of snazzy features. The site linked on this page is somewhat misleading.....
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
leoni1980 said:
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm.
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose we just have to disagree over the N95 versus Athena's ability to deliver good internet browsing experience.
You said the Anchorage will never be released (not may never be released). What makes you so certain?
I have no qualm with using Linux if it has the same array of quality software. I heard that the GPS software on N810 is a piece of crap, for example. I have never come across any website that indicates I can get third party software at this moment. It may be true that more software will be available in the future, but that does not help because I need it right now. For GPS, I only want iGO, or one that does warn me if I exceed the legal speed limit; is iGO available on linux? Can I get Cash Organiser on linux? What about creating and editing Word and Excel documents, can that be done on linux yet? What about MobileGolfScorer, which is the best golfing software that I know of? Does it run on linux? If not, is that anything as good? The list goes on and on.
It may be true that with WM7 some software may not run. We know that from the wm2003se to wm5 upgrade experience. However, almost all the software vendors quickly adapted with the newer version, so I'm not worried. I've watched a video interview with the WM7 development team, and know that they do try their best to minimise migration difficulties.
One of the attractions of Qualcomm's SnapDragon platform is its low battery consumption. It consumes between 250 to 500 miliwatt of battery. In contrast, the A110 and A100 chip from Intel consumes about 3 watts, which is 6 to 12 times more power hungry. The Intel's Silverthorne consumes power between 0.6 and 2.0 watts.
The chipset apparently allows even full OS to run on it. This may be the start of a more useable UMPC running full OS??
HTC is currently testing SnapDragon. Let's hope that they adopt it and come up with a battery efficient mobile device.
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Confucious said:
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youtube is only sited as a prime example of a flash-based site. Vtap, and other solutions do not allow access to all Flash 9 based sites.
On the subject of the Anchorage - it is definitely not being released, which is no surprise since its primary function was to demonstrate the Snapdragon Chipset - the device wasn't even fully functional and was only running WM5. HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
HTC are demostrably not concentrating soley on Windows Mobile anymore so it's a good bet that these new chipsets will herald more full windows/linux devices - I'll be happy with that!
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
And it's free.
Nokia Maps (wayfinder) also works fine. To be honest though I don't really need GPS as I don't drive.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
leoni1980 said:
Confucious said:
HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eaglesteve said:
leoni1980 said:
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
Not so bothered about on screen keyboards on N800 - there's a stylus kboard and a thumb kboard which are both fine. I don't do extensive typing anyway, mostly listening to bbc onine or fm radio with the plugins and browsing the net. I do pretty much all my major typing on the EEE. I can't imagine a long period of typing with onscreen input but I take my hat off to you for managing it. I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
leoni1980 said:
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One year passes very fast. By then I would have already got 2 year use and would pass on Athena to one of my sons who frequently fight over the use of Athena with me now.
As to the typing speed, watch the speed demo on this website:
http://www.tengo.net/
You'll then understand why Tengo is so different and unique as compared to the normal softscreen keyboard.
The speed limit is accurate for most of the roads. On some roads the speed limit has not been entered into the database. I understand that in one of the Tom Tom versions, users are able to manually update a particular road's speed limit as well as to add/change/delete road. I don't rely on it to the extend of not watching the speed sign and speedometer, since some road's speed are not there. I use it just to mimimise the chance of speeding when I day dream away, or got distracted.
So, there are GPS software and there are GPS software. They are'nt created equal. What I like about my existing winmo platform is that I have already sourced the best of bread in almost all areas. Finding applications which are as good on Linux platform may be a challenge.
leoni1980 said:
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you hugely underestimate what a "basic" satnav application does, I believe. TomTom, or others in kind, probably are the most power-hundgry applications running on our devices, especially so since they are, on top of CPU hungry, usually greedy on graphic resources. Yet most of the WinCE devices that run dedicated satnav solutions are 200, at most 300 MHz.
leoni1980 said:
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said in my previous post, it has everything to do with WinCE. Of course, the Touch GUI is, basically, a Windows Mobile application. But, Windows CE is, just the same, underlying all this. And it's WinCE that allows for easy, fast and efficient application development and allowed HTC to produce the Touch application that fast.
leoni1980 said:
They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. But do not forget that the GUI of the Nokia and iPhone you mention end, too, at the nice-looking GUI. The difference, and advantage, we have on these devices is that however flawed the ergonomy of the rest of the interface is, it is at our disposal, while it does not even exist on those other devices.
leoni1980 said:
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't do it for multiple reasons: they didn't need to (the WinCE platform was self-sustaining, competition faded to nothingness...), and they were even required to make an interface that even vaguely ressembled the desktop versions of Windows...
leoni1980 said:
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly the fact that, in they roadmap, they said from the start that:
- WM6 would be a "consolidation" of WM5;
- WM7 would provide a significant overhaul, in particular with the GUI and the general user experience.
leoni1980 said:
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nokia is, for now, the leader in mobile devices. Whichever OS they use is, therefore, the most distributed OS. But that's valid for "regular" phones, NOT PDA phones. In the PDA, and PDA phones market, Windows Mobile is quite simply the undisputed leader.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree more that PocketIE should be much better. In fact, much more than the "Windows-like" GUI, I find it infuriating to have such a basic 'HTML experience" on such a state of the art device, in 2007/2008. If the iPhone has any impact on our WinMo machines, I hope it is to show that integrating functionnalities such as Youtube, weather forecast, etc. is a minimum requirement for integrated functionnalities.
Greetings,
I 'upgraded' - though I use the term loosely and don't wish to sound detrimental - from an Athena to a Nokia E90 communicator on the 13th February. My experience of different mobile operating systems over the past 12 months has been extensive (not to mention expensive) but for the most part i've drifted back and forth between Windows Mobile and Symbian.
There are comparisons available on the net of the two devices, but these are generally based on the Windows Mobile 5 factory install without tweaks, and - in the case of both phones - don't take into account the multitude of apps that people use for pleasure on their phones, and the tweaks which make the user experience all the nicer.
I decided to give a little rundown of what I miss about the Athena and a few summary comparisons between the Nokia E90 and the Athena based on real-world usage.
SIZE
Both devices are generally deemed large, though the Athena is positively Brobdingnagian in comparison to the E90 - which kind of resembles a Nokia N70 with a big jacket on!
FORM FACTOR AND CONSTRUCTION
Needn't go into too much depth about the Athena's construction here as I'm sure you're all familiar with it. My personal opinion is that its keyboard is a design catastrophy with mushy feedback, no backlight and an unadjustable screen/keyboard gradient. HOWEVER the minimalist styling of the device when the keyboard is removed is very pleasurable.
I thoroughly enjoyed texting and emailing with fingertouch and Touchflo in unison and miss this feature more than anything else.
The E90 uses a fully hardware-based input system since it doesn't have a touchscreen however the QWERTY keyboard is fabulous, with individual number keys and a plethora of shortcut buttons, including two customizable ones - AND a backlight.
When closed all the functions of the phone are still available albeit using a qvga display - making it act analogously to most regular Symbian smartphones.
Both handsets are of a very well-constructed metallic finish but all the weightier for it.
Personally I like a bit of weight to my phones.
The E90 gains a few extra points in my estimates for the fact that its main screen is protected in my pocket without the need for a case.
CALL HANDLING
The E90 offers more choices to the user as once folded it can be used as a normal (large) mobile phone. The Athena on the other hand only has a loudspeaker, which is fine if you're on your own but not so good when in company. Both devices can be used with handsfree kits - either in-car or earpieces and both have perfectly good voice command software available. Out of the box the E90 offers voice command functions such as dialing individual contacts by name without the need to program each number in.
The E90 wins here easily for me as it just offers so many options and therefore more convenience.
THE SCREEN
Despite the fact that it makes the Athena MASSIVE I do think the screen is bright, crisp and beautiful. The E90's screen is less bright but VERY readable outdoors.
The clarity and resolution of both displays is a breath of fresh air, however the Athena's is better for the long haul, particularly if you like E-books and word processing on the go.
It's nice to have a touchscreen, and I miss the feature with my E90, though only to a small degree as there are so many shortcut keys on the Nokia device that a touchscreen would be fairly redundant and affect readability in daylight.
USABILITY AND SPEED
The two devices are on a par to me, though out-of-box the E90 is simpler as closing down and switching between applications is facilitated by a hardware button.
There are a selection of free third-party applications for Windows Mobile which allow simple application switching functionaility from within the today screen.
Individual tastes dictate which OS you prefer. Personally I like both in their own way, though given its predominantly touchscreen based UI I don't think Windows Mobile is as finger friendly out-of-box as it should be, but this isn't an Athena issue per ce.
CONNECTIVITY
both devices offer WLAN, bluetooth, HSDPA and GPS. Signal strength is great on both devices, though I find that when I open the E90 to browse I sometimes lose my signal entirely, seemingly for no reason. I suspect the receiver is blocked by particular finger positions.
HSDPA is supported up to 3.6mbps on the E90 but only 1.8mps on the Athena; crucially though the E90 will only work on Edge or GPRS in the Americas as the US HSDPA bandwidth isn't supported.
The Athena offers USB host which enables memory sticks and USB HIDevices to be used. This feature is not offered on the E90, though its screen is probably too small for a mouse to be of any use anyway. I used the USB host feature occasionally but for me it was more of a party trick and I don't miss it.
The E90 has bluetooth 2.0 EDR, while the Athena has only 2.0
The Athena also has video output - a feature that I used rarely but nonetheless have missed on a couple of occasions - it's certainly handy for showing presentations and slideshows.
GPS is comparable on both devices. My E90 gets a lock within 5 seconds using A-GPS and I don't recall the Athena performing any better. The Athena wins here though because there is more compatible navigation software for the Windows Mobile platform.
WEB BROWSING
Both phones are great for viewing web content. The E90 takes the upper hand in terms of its width of 800 pixels versus the Athena's 640 but the Athena's larger screen makes content clearer and less strenuous on the eyes.
Neither phones support flash, though with FL3.0 due for release in the next E90 firmware update this will be fixed somewhat in the case of the Nokia handset.
Both Symbian and Windows mobile will be getting the flash and java friendly Skyfire browser, with Windows Mobile being the first. They will also be getting Opera Mobile 9.5. I have no experience with either of these browsers though, and can only say that I prefer the Safari browser in the E90 to either the Opera browser OR the Internet Explorer browser on the Athena, since it seems snappier and works with more of my oft-visited web pages.
HOWEVER I prefer opera mini to ALL of these.
VIDEO PLAYBACK
The Widescreen display of the E90 is more suited to the Hollywood aspect ratio, and also newer television broadcasts in 16:9. Combined with hardware acceleration and an adjustable viewing angle via the hinged screen the E90 wins here for me.
The larger screen of the Athena is a nice size for longer-term video playback, but I always had issues with lip-sync and jerkiness on the Athena unless optimising movies for the device.
CAMERA
Indisputably I prefer the E90 here. Although on paper the two devices' cameras are comparable the reality is that the E90's is snappier, sharper and produces more realistic colours. it also records video at VGA 30fps, which steals the show for me.
The Athena's camera is good for a Windows Mobile device though - the best I've seen - and I particularly like the depth it gives to black and white photography. Shame the shutter speed is so rubbish.
STORAGE
The Athena wins here with its 8GB microdrive versus the E90's....nothing. The E90 supports any size of Micro SDHC though and these are getting very cheap of late. In practice I used the microdrive very little as it took too long to copy things onto the Athena using either Activesync or WM5torage.
SOUND
Both devices perform very well with music playback: the E90 feels more portable though and is easier for one-handed operation. It is let down by a 2.5mm headphone jack instead of the 3.5mm standard seen on the Athena. The E90 has a radio which is handy on occasion, though it requires earphones to be plugged in at all times - not much use if you use bluetooth headphones.
BATTERY LIFE
No noticeable difference with either - I always end up recharging before the day is through!
SOFTWARE
Many people cite healthy software development and availability as a reason for Windows Mobile's flexibility, but in the past few weeks I've found some great free software for Symbian. Among my current favourites are:
Symella: A gnutella/limewire-style p2p filesharing client.
Symtorrent: I'm sure you can guess this one
Sportstracker: track your walks and runs via GPS with a full live rundown of speed, distance travelled and orientation, followed by a comprehensive report (which even tells you how many calories you've burnt off)
Google Maps: includes internal GPS support
software to enable the internal GPS to be used via bluetooth as a standalone GPS receiver
Opera Mini - goes without saying, but is more enjoyable on the E90 owing to the fact that Java is better integrated in Symbian OS.
Joikuspot: share your HSDPA over WLAN (as WMWIFIROUTER by Chainfire)
Windows Live Hotmail: integrated within the messaging application.
Nav4All: free navigation software.
EM tube: standalone youtube browser and flv downloader with a snappy and beautiful UI.
MP3editor: edit MP3s on-the-fly through your phone: edit tags, merge clips and save segments of songs to use as message and ringtones.
Only a month has gone by, so who knows if my experience will change. Maybe I'll end up going back to the Athena - who knows. I'd be interested to hear from people who have gone the other way round - E90 to Athena, and what their experience has been like.
Nice summary ! - and I find this interesting as I also "sidegraded" from an Athena (ameo) to an E90
( Here is a little background - I have always used ,and enjoyed using Nokia Communicators , from the 9110i to the E90 I have had them all - I have also been quite a fan of WM devices also , and , to be honest , the WM devices have been my favourites )
So , as soon as the E90 was announced , I had to have one ! Fortunately for me , I was unable to afford one initially , then , I was unable to find stock (due to the production halt ) - by the time I got my act together , they had released the stable version (Nov 07)
I was actually very happy with my Ameo in every way , except the obvious one ! , yep , thats right - it's "usability" as a telephone , I am not proud , and am quite happy to use the speakerphone most of the time - but occasionally I would be in a position where it was a bit of a pain
So it was innevitable I'd get an E90 , and I must admit I was very sceptical - I WANTED a new S80 communicator ! this S60 was for little chavs to have on their MOBILE PHONES as far as I was concerned - it wasn't a "proper" PDA OS , so I was a little worried as to how good an S60 Communicator would be - but in the end , I was quite impressed
It was not like I just "Dropped" the Ameo though - I would use the E90 for a few days , then I'd miss something about the Ameo - and switch back ,and Vice versa
It is only after 5 months now that I have settled on a device , and I am shamed to say (seeing as where we are !) that it is the E90 I have settled with - Don't get me wrong , I still use the Ameo occasionally , and when I do it still impresses me ! - it is just that the E90 is "easier" for my daily activities now
I do think , that maybe a Tytn II would be the ideal middle ground between the two devices ? and I may just get one next time I have a spare £400 + ( or if someone offered I'd be tempted to swap my Ameo for a Vario III etc ? )
I am in quite a favourable postion TBH - If the E90 died , I'd just go back to the Ameo , and if the Ameo died , I'd be happy to stick with the E90 !
leoni1980, I pretty much agree with all your findings!
How great is it that we have a choice between the two platforms ? As far as I see it , before the E90 , the top end WM devices (IMO ) had no competition at all ! Just as an aside , I bought a P990i (as Orange are knocking them out for £90 ) and it is Diabolical ! - How things have changed ! the P900 was a real contender once !
if your ameo is in good condition you can trade it at Cex for a vario 3 with a 12 month warranty and have an 18 quid credit note to boot. check out www.cex.co.uk. Alternatively you can buy one outright for £225.
Personally I wouldn't be happy with a QVGA screen though, and compared to the E90 the video and camera side of the Vario 3 leaves a lot to be desired. From experience of owning a Vario 2 - which i still have - I also prefer taking calls on the E90 as I have fewer dropped calls and inadvertant dial-outs. It's also quicker to send a quick one-handed text reply on the E90.
If gps is more of a concern then the Vario 3 might be a good swap for the Athena as you will still have the high-res browsing of the E90 at your disposal coupled with a more capable GPS unit (the Vario iii).
Each to their own as they say
Zoidster, you might be interested to know (if you don't already!) that a firmware update came out today with:
Flash video (youtube etc) playback
Web runtime
demand paging
a million tweaks and fixes.
The E90 has definitely stepped up a notch now....just gotta wait for Opera Mobile 9.5 which should be a lot faster than the Standard browser.
Unbelievable !!
I had been checking NSU on a daily basis for the last couple of weeks - then the last couple of days have been too busy ! - and here it is
Thanks for the heads up !
apparently it's been taken off the nsu again, not sure why or whether you got there in time
I missed it !
Tried a few product codes, then thought something must be up ....
Checked around and found out what has happened - A bit gutted , but a few people are reporting browser instablity - I supposed they must have pulled it for a reason
I suppose it's the waiting game again !
zoidster said:
I missed it !
Tried a few product codes, then thought something must be up ....
Checked around and found out what has happened - A bit gutted , but a few people are reporting browser instablity - I supposed they must have pulled it for a reason
I suppose it's the waiting game again !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive not really had any problems as yet with the new one, but at least you know a new firmware is definitely on the horizon. Try opera mini 4.1 beta by the way, it now allows downloading from within the browser so you can download stuff you cant with the built in browser, such as unrecognised video types and torrent files (for symtorrent). There's also less text popup boxes and autocomplete. Be sure to set the font size to small for maximum screen real-estate. Just thought you might like to know
It's a shame, but I have been visiting this forum for a year or two now and must say - this forum is dead. It's a shame because , looking at new tablet pcs and similar devices entering the market, I think athena still is a good device, offering a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I know nothing of ROM cooking and all the cooks have left us. Too bad
mietulo said:
It's a shame, but I have been visiting this forum for a year or two now and must say - this forum is dead. It's a shame because , looking at new tablet pcs and similar devices entering the market, I think athena still is a good device, offering a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I know nothing of ROM cooking and all the cooks have left us. Too bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is the way with all devices these days..... I still use my Athena as a backup unit in case I muck up one of my other units....LOL
Later........... B)
I also think the HTCx7500 continues to be a good device. The things that is attractive with the new devices is the advancement of touch screen technology. Cypress true touch technology for example offer not only multi touch but also the ability to do hovering because the screen can sense the finger as soon as the finger is near the screen.
Undeniably Nice to play and might offer conveniences to a certain degree. But unless there is a way to browse the net as fast as a proper laptop or a way to do document processing or powerpoint slides editing 70% as efficiently as a desktop, what the newer device can offer as compared to HTC x7500 is just cosmetics. I can get the same job done with not much of a problem with the Athena as compared to the newer devices.
So, the things that will attract me to newer devices will be
1. Faster internet browsing
2. Document processing / slide editing
3. Looonger battery life
4. Snappiness of the operating system even after installing many programs
5. softwares availability - not specially controlled by a central "market" and all software makers have to pass their work to them and let their work be distributed by one central point where users can download and use free or paid.
Zooming with 2 fingers or 5 fingers is interesting but zooming by just pushing my athena directional buttons up and down isn't such a difficult job either.
Special today's page / Home menus like the ones in Androids or iphones are also not something difficult to reproduce or customized under windows mobile.
Athena still rocks!
Glad I chose to sell mine when I did. It was a device that was ahead of its time. Shame Android never took off on it.
Something different
The prices of these babies have dropped so much that I just bought one recently... after using various newer HTCs, etc, that are all basically the same, this ancient gadget was actually a breath of fresh air. Besides the marginal interior updates, OS versions, and the gradual screen size upgrades, I really can't figure out what's inherently different with almost all smartphones today... although using the athena needs somewhat of a change in mindset (especially of what is a phone), having something different to play with is already a big plus and an actual experience.... please phone makers, lets make the effort of trying to do something different and not just marketing something as different.
I want to browse the internet, do some emailing, write something in my blog, check auction sites, watch youtubes, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - Opera mini, streaming player, etc)
I want to do some word processing, write a novel, edit some documents, and make sure the work can be in sync with my laptop/desktop. Can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - pocketword. document2go, softmaker textmaker, pnotepad)
I want to go through my powerpoint slides and rehearse, re position/re sort the slides, correct a few wordings and make sure i can keep both the slides i have in my desktop and my pocketpc in sync, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - pocket powerpoint, clear vue slides, ...)
I want to enjoy listening to some mp3, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - tcmp player, coreplayer)
I want to watch some movies in avi, wmv, flv, rm, mp4 format, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - tcmp player with the correct codecs)
I want to do some voice recording, can the Athena handle that? (YES - resco audio recorder)
I want to share some photos album with friends sitting together in a restaurant, can the Athena handle that? (YES - resco picture viewer)
I want to connect to internet using 3g/ HSDPDA, because WIFI is unavailable, can the ATHENA handle that? (YES - just make sure 3G services in my data card is active)
I want to transfer file from pc, mobile phone to Anthena or transfer from my athena to my friend's mobile phone without using wires, can the Athena handle that? (YES - bluetooth connections, mocha ftp server, ...)
I wan to play some games, ?? (YES - gba emulator, nes..., playstation 1 emulator, Java, Just games made for pocket pc, etc)
I don't see what the other devices (androids or Ipods) can do that i cannot do with my ATHENA. Yes, I would love it if there is a way to try out putting ANdroids os in my athena but it will be just for fun and to know that there is one more choice of os i can use if i feel like it. Honestly, if there is a 7 inch windows mobile device, I might consider.
One of the MOST important thing that keeps me monitoring the android development is actually BATTERY LIFE (7 hrs with wifi on) and fast zooming.
Many people who try to impress me with android will show me how smooth the screen scrolls here and there with just a flick of the finger. Impressive but when i stop to think over, I realized that i am not going to spend my whole time flicking the screen here and there and just for the thrill to see how the screen can actually change simply by a flick of a finger.
What i will do mostly is click on a program i need to use and start typing or imputing. Scrolling and panning is only useful when i am reading long documents like webpages or ebooks. That is why i like isilo because it allows you to scroll without the need to use the scroll bar.
Fast zooming is another thing that i would like to see on mobile devices. The kind of fast zooming used in opera browsers and netfront browsers are heading in the right direction. FAst zooming is already something that is fast developing even under windows mobile environment.
So, in the end, it comes to a matter of which operating system uses less battery power and will allow longer battery life.
My Athena is going on ebay this weekend because I have one of these now, might be something to look into for the rest of you, as there is an active hacker community too:
http://www.slatedroid.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pandigital_Novel
I only used the Athena as a nightstand emailer/websurfer/weatherchecker, so I have no use for a phone. It worked well enough for that, but the PDN is even better for my needs, and now works with android market. Very cool not to have to activesync to move downloaded cabs to the athena, plus there won't be much activity for winmo anymore since everything is incompatible with wp7 as I understand, while android market is just beginning. Just found a solution that works for my needs, and thought I would share it. Athena was good to me, but it's time for her to move on about her life's work.
Fashion
It does seem a shame that just as big screen devices like this one are coming into fashion this forum has fallen into disuse. It doesn't stop it from still being a very good device, and still very usable in my view. Plus with the amount of ROMS to choose from on this forum there must be one to suit most people. You never know, we may get another cook some time.
regards
Jay
Yes, the Android os is very interesting to look at. If someone created a 7 inch - 10 inch screen tablet with windows mobile 6.1, (or even wm5,6), I would seriously consider but of course the battery life must be good and the processor and ram should have enough power to improve internet experience.
I've used all sorts of devices, from Psion to OQO, Everun, Zaurus, HTC BA etc etc. Recently I bought the Ameo and I can say that after some customisation this little device fits my bill perfectly.
The Ameo has been more flexible (keyboard/Tablet, case, landscape/portrait, 3G/WiFi) than the Archos 5IT it replaced. Sure, Android is nice and iOS is fluid and modern, but the Ameo kills them all with a large 4/3 screen.
I'm using it right now with a Logitech wireless mouse, it's been on all day with a 30% battery drain, browsing with Opera Mobile 10 over 3G.
I wish manufactures would revisit the 4/3 aspect ratio, not everybody wants to watch widescreen films all day, and books look terrible in portrait on thin devices.
Many thanks to the members of these forums for all the tweaks and custom ROMs. this Ameo isn't dead yet.
Last week I bought one of the android tablet made in china. It is called APAD 7 inch styleflying.
The android os has somethings going but I have a number of complains. One of them is why did they do away with "scrollbars." While it is true that Many many people enjoy swiping the screen up and down and feel the screen moving at the command of the finger but it is also true that SCROLLBARS do make sense. Without scrollbars, i believe that many users have experience accidentally opening a program while they were trying to flip the screen up and down. android wants to do things differently I guess but in the process, they took away something very practical and useful. Just my personal opinion. If they want to do something that appears different, they can do what HTC hd2 did. When I look carefully, i realise that in fact, HTC hd2 has a kind of scroll bar on the main screen. It doesn't look like the traditional scrollbar but it does the same job. It allows the user to accurately move from page to page by pushing a slider. And who said programs in Android doesn't crash or hang or stop responding. In my experience, they do.
Anyway, it is a free operating system and it is open source so I hope it will improve in time to come.
Meanwhile, my Athena HTC x7500 rocks! If only I can wake up one morning and find my 5 inch screen Athena grow up and become 7 inch screen! Heh Heh!
5 inch is good size. But i would surely not mind having a 7 inch screen HTC x7500 in my collection.
I am new to the Athena myself by just having bought one for about 200 USD - and it was a great find as it is in perfect shape, looks brand new, no scratches whatsoever!
I sold my Acer F900, as I am through with touchphones, I hate them - it's too bulky and smart for a phone, but too little to do productive work (for me that's office and remote computer administration, mainly). So I decided to scrap the smarthphone, and go back to the roots: buy a small and light cellphone with physical buttons and a PDA.
So I went for the x7500, and I love it! It's 3 years old, and still getting the job done!
My only complaint now is with WiFi: it seems to 'forget' the passwords for APs for some reason...
Btw I use an extra light Taxist WM6.1 ROM (42 Megs), as I have my own proven programs I am using for years, so everything except the OS is unnecessary junk.
it is a shame it is not popular.
I have this device since June. I guess I am getting old, and the little screen of my Polaris was just not fun anymore. The screen of the Athena and the real keyboard were really the 2 attractive points before I touched the beast for real.
So here we go for a search and I found one almost new 5 months ago over the net for 200 Euros.
That's probably the best deal I have done.
I have the device at work and at home, also at customer site. I receive my calls (through Bluetooth), while taking notes or making reports. Even camera pictures are good to fill in reports. WM6.5 works great on this fast device, the only thing I miss is the letter recogniser mode when I have to take notes not seating somewhere. But vocal notes do the trick.
i check my mails both personnals and professionnals, review a presentation in the plane, give free phonecalls to my family while travelling, and finish by a good movie or the news on streaming TV.
It is said to be big, but in fact not bigger than a decent leather covered organizer.
So bad they stopped it...
And so bad there is so few brands believing in this all-in-one concept !!!
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
KukurikU said:
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For dead links to ROMs, the trick is to Google the exact name and see if some kind soul has uploaded them somewhere - try it, it sometimes works.
I am using AGB 3.0 - to be honest, the device is slow by modern standards, and it not really finger-friendly, it takes quite a tap with a finger to get the thing to respond.
However, yesterday, a young American looked impressively at it as I used it in the train, and asked if it was a phone or a tablet - and what OS it ran. I told him it was old, several years old, and ran WM (albeit a new version). OK, he was disappointed - but that is it, this gadget was way ahead of its time, if they did it again, it would succeed with a few tweaks (modern CPU, faster and better battery).
rjstep3
KukurikU said:
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check Michy's sigs in any of his comments - there is a link to all of his ROMs, he removed it from rapidshare.
I recommend his Clear Edition 6 R1 or something version - I found it quite usable as I wasn't able to revert the WM6.5 start menu, found in the AVG 3 rom, to 6.1.
Nah, not dead, still in daily use by many. My Athena was 3 years old last month and I still haven't found a phone that I might want (the HD2 is close, but I got one for my wife and the screen still just feels too small). Still carry it every day.
Me too! I have tested HD2, tested Androids but the Athena is still amazing!
help making it alive agine....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=849080
At my work we are evaluating the feasibility of using some Android devices for data collection/modification purposes.
Right now we use the all too familiar (in the retail industry anyways) Symbol/Motorola Windows Mobile PDA. While these devices work, they are stuck in the past in almost every way. The always have awful resistive touch screens, often don't properly support modern WiFi encryption standards, are very expensive, slow, etc... Not to mention Microsoft has all but dropped support for Windows Mobile/CE entirely, and you have to pay Microsoft for the privilege of writing an application for the platform. Maintaining the app we use for that platform is becoming a pain, and its not going to get any better. Instead of putting any more time into the WM app, we feel its time to move on.
We have already been developing a intranet page to replace the functionality of the Windows Mobile app. What really pushed us towards Android was the fact is has a modern internet browser. This allowed us with just a bit of additional html/css/javascript to serve up a version that works fine in the Android browser. Something we tried and failed to do with the Windows CE browser. We where also able to get it working fine with a external motorola bluetooth barcode scanner for input purposes.
Our only issue now is what kind of devices are out there for this type of application? The ideal device would be about phone sized, or maybe slightly larger (small tablet even), would be a bit more ruggedized than your normal consumer electronics and have Wifi/Bluetooth (cellular functionality not required or wanted) Right now the only device I've found that meets those requirements has been the Motorola ET1 Android tablet. Am I missing some others out there?
The test devices we have been using where a modified Nook Color and a original Motorola Droid, obviously such devices would not be suitable in actual use.
In terms of size i'm sure you have heard of the galaxy note, mind you you might kill it in a comercial setting.
You probably want to google for IP67 certified devices. The Motorola DEFY+ comes to mind since it's so cheap, It also has CM7/9 support and possibly MIUI.
I'm in the pre-planning stages of putting a new radio receiver together. It will be loosely based off of current SDR technology, but with a focus on mobility. The current scanners on the market (made by Uniden and GRE/Whistler) have issue when it comes to digital audio and simulcast trunked radio systems. With a focus on selling a scanner that can handle a wide range of trunking formats and features that don't benefit the basic operation, they try to keep the scanners in the $5-600 price range. There are trade-offs at that point, mainly how radio signals are processed. SDR takes on the role of being in between commercial scanners and professional radios developed by Motorola, Harris etc that reach into the thousands of dollars to own and operate. They can be very good (USRP N200 for example) but require seperate dedicated hardware that is mostly fixed to a desktop environment. There are some portable options that cost less than $20 that use the RTL2832U+R820 chipset. There has also been some Android development for them such as SDR Touch.
The idea that is being thrown around is turning SDR into a truely mobile solution. Our two options for controlling the hardware would be to build a completely brand new OS from scratch (like those used on the professional series radios) or use something that already exists and modify it. The main question is why reinvent the wheel? We could use something like the Raspberry Pi with Linux, but I feel that Android is more friendly for mobile use. My question is, how difficult would it be to branch Android off for this new project and who will be willing to help? I'm not technical as far as coding, and I'm trying to coordinate the various areas that will be required to get this off the ground.