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Hey all,
Just to preface, this is a discussion, not a complaint. I simply want to figure out the cause and effects of different pagepool settings.
I'm not sure about other devices, but from my experience, it seems like the prophet is very "limited" in RAM... One of the biggest pains is not being able to load third party input methods like calligrapher, or htc phone pad (when it's not installed in the ROM).
From information I've gathered here and there, it seems like input methods use a "different" part of the RAM that's shared with the today screen plugins. I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the pagepool, but I have a feeling it is.
So in my quest to figure things out, I've realized the following:
- In the shipped ROMs from the manufacturer, this issue was never a problem. What was the pagepool setting of these ROMs? 12mb? 8mb? 4mb? From the old WM5 threads, it seems like they were set to 12mb pagepool. is this correct?
- In the current set of roms, the cooks like to use 8mb pagepool because the speed is a little better. These roms definitely seem to have the input method problems. ie. pdaviet, pdamobiz, etc...
- Someone mentioned a 4mb pagepool is better for ram with a little sacrifice on speed. I haven't actually tried using a 4mb pagepool rom to see if it has the input method issue. has anyone here experienced it with 4mb pagepool? (maybe those running gullum's 4mb pagepool rom)?
- so in the end, what is the affect of changing the pagepool size in relation to speed, available program ram, third part input methods/today plugins? I'm really confused! Is there even a relation?
mr_yellow said:
Hey all,
Just to preface, this is a discussion, not a complaint. I simply want to figure out the cause and effects of different pagepool settings.
I'm not sure about other devices, but from my experience, it seems like the prophet is very "limited" in RAM... One of the biggest pains is not being able to load third party input methods like calligrapher, or htc phone pad (when it's not installed in the ROM).
From information I've gathered here and there, it seems like input methods use a "different" part of the RAM that's shared with the today screen plugins. I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the pagepool, but I have a feeling it is.
So in my quest to figure things out, I've realized the following:
- In the shipped ROMs from the manufacturer, this issue was never a problem. What was the pagepool setting of these ROMs? 12mb? 8mb? 4mb? From the old WM5 threads, it seems like they were set to 12mb pagepool. is this correct?
- In the current set of roms, the cooks like to use 8mb pagepool because the speed is a little better. These roms definitely seem to have the input method problems. ie. pdaviet, pdamobiz, etc...
- Someone mentioned a 4mb pagepool is better for ram with a little sacrifice on speed. I haven't actually tried using a 4mb pagepool rom to see if it has the input method issue. has anyone here experienced it with 4mb pagepool? (maybe those running gullum's 4mb pagepool rom)?
- so in the end, what is the affect of changing the pagepool size in relation to speed, available program ram, third part input methods/today plugins? I'm really confused! Is there even a relation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i used the pdaviet 4.0.0.6 touch then converted it to 4mb pagepool and then used it again here r the changes i observed
-the third party input thing started working gr8 in the beginning for some days but for some weird reason i cannot again switch to blimkeys or any other input again now.
-the speed of windows is a bit slow not too much but opening windows folder now takes a lot of time.
-i have a lot of ram now 25mb in the starting compared to 8mb pagepool which used to give me 18mb.
-it starts a bit faster the home pluggin take less time to come.
applications like games r more faster............
thats all ive observed will try 6mb pagepool too sometime..........
Hello mr_yellow
have you tried to google page pool ?! trust me it helps.
to make it easier , have a look at here :
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
Room cooks didn't reduce the rom to make the rom faster! Theoretically the Roms with larger page pool are faster. They reduce the page pool to increase the available program ram.
Hope it helped
I've tried.. and failed... with all the different devices, it's hard to figure it all out. The article you linked was *very* helpful though...
So pagepool is basically the "cache" between the storage ram and program ram... That's what I thought. Interpreting that, the size of the page pool also seems to limit the amount of running application. ie. if page pool is only 4 megs, and 1 application needs 3 megs to run, if a second app that needs 2 megs to run starts, will the OS to stop loading the app since there's not enough memory?
So.. do *all* applications share the page pool? in other words, do all the third party input methods like calligrapher and blimkeys and HTC Phone pad load into the pagepool before executing? Same with PIM apps, internet explorer, games, etc....
Doesn't that mean we should increase our page pool size to 12 megs?
Also, to change the pagepool of a rom, i know it's a simple hex edit... Are there any other changes to the ROM we have to make?
Thanks
Sorry to dig up this thread again, so I've flashed to PDAVIEt 40005b cross which has 12 mb pagepool and I don't see any difference regarding the problems with loading 3rd party input methods. I'm trying to load PocketCM Keyboard and I just can't without turning off all my today plugins. and even then, after a few hours of uptime, it'll stop loading all together and I'm stuck with letter/block recognizer, keyboard, and transcriber (somehow transcriber always loads)...
So my workaround so far is to disable most today plugins, and use SIPChange utility that will automatically load any desired input method after reset. You can find the SIPChange utility on the forums.
If anyone else has any good workaround/solutions, please post them!
I have noticed similar issues around phonepad/blimkeys etc
I have just flashed to pdaviet 4.0.0.0.6
again same. blim keys works for a while then dont anymore
sorry about my silly question but
I have a jamin g4 device now tell me when a rom relesed , I should download witch version : 4M , 8M , Or 12M
darvish_boy said:
sorry about my silly question but
I have a jamin g4 device now tell me when a rom relesed , I should download witch version : 4M , 8M , Or 12M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there was one "best" page pool size, I think the rom cookers would have figured it out by now. It depends on what's pre-installed in the rom and what the cooker wants, speed, or ram.
personally, i've tried roms with 8mb and 12mb pagepools, and functionally, there is no difference that I can tell. What you should do is take your favourite rom and edit it so it has different page pool sizes and flash it and try it out yourself and report back here what you find.
THanks,
mr_yellow said:
If there was one "best" page pool size, I think the rom cookers would have figured it out by now. It depends on what's pre-installed in the rom and what the cooker wants, speed, or ram.
personally, i've tried roms with 8mb and 12mb pagepools, and functionally, there is no difference that I can tell. What you should do is take your favourite rom and edit it so it has different page pool sizes and flash it and try it out yourself and report back here what you find.
THanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for ur answer
I am a little overwelmed which how much stuff you can hack up or modify with this compared to my Compaq iPaq I had about 9-10 years ago. I could really use some help with a few questions. My 1st post here, and i am going to try not to be a newbie, i do a lot of developing with FoFiX, and XBMC skins, and know what it's like to get newb's asking questions already answered. But i have searched and read for 9 hours straight now and just confused still about a few things. If anyone doesn't mind answering these and just had some time, I would really appreaciate the help.
I already messed around with trying out the other home alternative, and iPhone clone, and after playing around since with the manila/TouchFlo, so far it's the best one out with being skinable and also is smoothest and nicest looking, with easiest finger touch control. So i am now wanting to learn as much as i can. I'm by far no stranger to MOD'ing stuff , so i mostly understand the dAnGeR's and terminology. I am already going to start converting an XBMC skin i co-develop ('Back-Row') for ever one to use. I do a good bot of all the graphics for it, and doing all the work to update it for 1900x1080 realms.
1) Currently i am using Manila2D_1.00_1819.2926 for now, and still can't quite figure out about the differences of using either 'kitchen' or 'Loaded' manilla ROM files. I am gathering from reading that this allows you to replace your current rom with another ROM that already has manilla inside/cooked so you are running it directly, as part of the overall OS, thus saving internal memory, allowing certain problems from happening. Like it here and there switches programs (opera) back to the touchflo screen, as well as it prompting "Tap here to start Touchflo" and having to do this every here and there.
2) The touchflo 3d isn't available yet, and possible/definitely wouldn't run on a HTC Mogul (64megs internal, 1?? storage), 4 gig stick memory card (got an 8 gig stick on the way from Amazon-$14.99) or maybe??? Cube seems to work ok so far, alongside with Manila2D_1.00_1819.2926. I read about install problems and such with Manila if cube was installed, it's working fine for me.
3) When i make a contact memory, i notice it doesn't seem to hold the memory setting. As when i go back, they are all blank again "+"), is there possibly a file that needs a reg switch or is this just a bug? My favorite program links I set stay just fine though.
Again, thanks for any help on this guys. I am still reading and searching, and will keep an eye on this thread in case someone will hopefully answer this. And thanks again in advance.
Here's the deal. HTC Titan has only 64 Megs of RAM, ~25-27 of which are usable at bootup. This means a beautiful app such as M2D takes up its fair share of memory and CPU, causing intensive programs such as Opera Mobile to crash now and then.
If you want to make that sacrifice for a pretty, flowing interface, you will not be alone. Scrosler makes an excellent ROM [variant of DCD's 3.2.6] which I've found - over the course of a few weeks - very stable.
Again with the cube interface.. it's just pretty graphics and will eat up alot of precious memory once you get some intensive programs running. If you just want your phone to be impressive and fun - cool, go for it.
With respect to the contacts vanishing, that is a problem with the way your Windows Live is set up. To resolve it I think you must force the server to -not- attempt to sync your contacts. Also, use dotFred's PIM Backup [found in development & hacking] and you will be able to save your contacts, messages, tasks, etc. on a single backup file.
If you are going to get into flashing various ROMs, I suggest picking up UC Autorun. Had I used it from the start, I would have sliced off several days of reconfiguring.
I've read this numerous times. I consistently see people write that if one runs M2D, especially on scrosler's ROM, that one sacrifices memory and that's why opera and things have problems.
I disagree. Because the ROM already has so much free RAM, I have more memory running M2D on this ROM than I did running a stock ROM.
The R4R ROM, if one installs the HTC Task Manager, has EnableAutokill enabled by default. This is what's killing your apps when you start running low on memory. I recommend disabling it. There are instructions if you keep reading that thread. Or you can download my updates to this ROM, which are also linked to in the R4R thread. Maybe a couple more hours of reading and you'll get through the whole thread.
I disagree.
bitserve said:
I've read this numerous times. I consistently see people write that if one runs M2D, especially on scrosler's ROM, that one sacrifices memory and that's why opera and things have problems.
I disagree. Because the ROM already has so much free RAM, I have more memory running M2D on this ROM than I did running a stock ROM.
The R4R ROM, if one installs the HTC Task Manager, has EnableAutokill enabled by default. This is what's killing your apps when you start running low on memory. I recommend disabling it. There are instructions if you keep reading that thread. Or you can download my updates to this ROM, which are also linked to in the R4R thread. Maybe a couple more hours of reading and you'll get through the whole thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really appreciate the opinions and such for responses. That's helpfull to me. Today i removed the cube program, since i store the cab file on my 8 gig storage stick in case i want to dump it on, but also since a fair bit of what it does i can still also do with M2D anyway. Although yes it's cool looking, the main purpose can be done with M2d, and for the most part i now have "Free:18.70MB" of free available space from "Free: 10.24MB", almost doubled the amount of free memory space. As well as freeing up the space from "In Use:42MB" down to now being "In Use:34MB". So at least now programs aren't crashing.
Now things are working fine. I still need to mess with the contacts not saving, but program links are fine. Trying to understand about the mentioned how to possibly fix this with Windows Live and syncing. And also why touchflo still throws the 'Tap to load Touchflo' problem. Would flashing with this said 'Kitchen' ROM or the extra one include touchflo so it's always kind of running? This is the last 2 questions for me to work out, everything else i got going and understand already.
I know this has been mentioned in several posts but nothing I have seen compiling a bunch of peoples opinions into one post..So here goes:
Out of the 6.1 and 6.5 ROMs what do you see as being the fastest ROM - fastest as in responsiveness to screen taps, scrolling, animations etc.. And also fast as in how well will it play movies (I know this is a very subjective one as results will vary with how the movie has been encoded).
My results have been:
Fastest - Michy's 6.5 Clean Edition; It seems to scroll very well, load opera fast and when i load up SPB 3 on it the animations to screen swipes are smother that any other ROM. Issues are batt life seems to be a lot less than other 6.1 ROM's. I also notice the Bluetooth seems to not cut out as much with this ROM so that's a plus.
Downside is there are a few bugs still in this ROM (I know Mitchy is and has worked hard to iron them out..and many thanks to him for that!!)
Movies seem to play (for me) better with this ROM as well. the same movie will have less lag and sound sync issues with this ROM..almost like there is a better driver in this ROM for graphics? Also I did not add any codec bundles or anything...just as the ROM came and added CorePlayer..
I still find myself using the Mitchy's Clean 6.1 ROM just due to almost no bugs and longer batt life...almost as fast if you keep as much RAM free as you can with it but still not as fast as his 6.5 ROM I currently have about 62 MB with everything installed that i like to run on it.
Please post your take on what you find is faster for you and your setup.
My setup:
Mitchy 6.1 Clean ROM
Programs Added:
SPB 3
SoftMaker office 2008 - loaded on mem card
Memaid
Calendar Touch
Resco Radio
WMWifiRouter
C-ApiSRO (XM and Sirius player)
Core Player
Google maps
Opera
MSVC
WinMobileTorrent
Numpty (great game!)
After Soft reset:
free Storage - 95.64
free Program - 61.25
for the 6.5 ROM the RAM was about 14MB less with all the same loaded..would love to get all this onto a very clean 6.5 ROM and see how much better the performance can be!
Just wish I had the know-how to cook ROM's!
Please post your results too
I'm thinking of another ROM line, to be good enough to use for business (so it has to be very stable) and with toned down, professional graphics. This will very much be a "clean" ROM, with no extra BS apps or addons. Can I hear some suggestions please ?
Looking forward to it..
As you already know, I'm not a huge fan of the HTC apps/enhancements, so I would leave those out with the option of installing via cab, or have them in the ROM with a working toggle to turn them off.
I would say do as many of the "under the hood" tweaks you can do without sacrificing stability.
As for graphics, I already like your taskbar in your WM6.5 series, and I think that could stay. I'm not sure what changes you would have in mind for graphics, but I think the graphics you have now are pretty clean.
Are you thinking of a WM6.5 ROM or a WM6.1 ROM? I didn't see that mentioned, so I thought I would ask since you've done both in the past.
i think you should go with stock graphics people customize if they choose. my ideal business rom would be like juicy's cdma one
"It's business, It's business time!" - Flight of the Conchords
I think this is a GREAT idea. Would this be 6.1 or 6.5? 6.5 is very close to being capable of generating a "stable" ROM.
Even though this is business oriented, I think anyone would much appreciate the style (icons, themes, graphics) that you put into your ROMs. Same would hold true for most of the enhancements. Maybe trim down some of the fluff.
simple is the Best
go for it am sure will be a good Rom.
Good Luck
WOW, another one. jeez, you gonna be busy LOL. I get frustrated sometimes with just the one version. More power to ya
What about a stock looking version? I know some people would like a ROM that is much better than the crappy one that comes preinstalled. I think you might get a lot of hits from a lighter ROM that looks semi-stock. As stable as stock, but with all the enhancements and tweaks you can squeeze into it. Possibly a 6.5 and 6.1 version.
I think it's a very good idea and in my opinion the ROM must be based on WM 6.1. Email/SMS/MMS/Vido call/WIfi/ must work without a hitch. You could include opera 9.7b and maybe IE 8.
These are my suggestions. Merci.
P.S. i only use your roms!
mdalacu said:
I think it's a very good idea and in my opinion the ROM must be based on WM 6.1. Email/SMS/MMS/Vido call/WIfi/ must work without a hitch. You could include opera 9.7b and maybe IE 8.
These are my suggestions. Merci.
P.S. i only use your roms!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Newer versions of PIE only work with 6.5 as far as I know. I agree that the most stable ROM is going to be 6.1, but if you go with 6.5 I would suggest an older build. 23001 seems like a turd to me. Went back to 21820 and its twice as fast with no bugs.
3 important things for a business ROM:
1. As clean as possible (only essential progs. installed, like Pim Backup, Adobe Reader, Pocket RAR, Google Maps, GPS Test)
2. Stable = reliable
3. Good battery life
jmckeejr said:
23001 seems like a turd to me. Went back to 21820 and its twice as fast with no bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol i know what you mean
I have reverted back to 21018. After playing around with 4 later builds and a little go with 6.5 I am back here to old faithful. Very fast, battery burns lean, and every build i have tried later than this had some problem or other. slow/buggy or battery destroyer.
Easy to Use Dialer
Dialer:...................Accurate - consistent - easy to use - good speaker phone / mute / automated menu support
Three interfaces:....TF3D2 – Titanium – Win Phone Basic Text interface
Graphics:...............Clean with color - Landscape mode 6.1 style (quick easy buttons) Portrait Mode Action softkey
GPS:.....................Good stand alone support (no data plan)
MMS:....................Support for the largest attachments the carriers will allow
SMS:....................Good support for text conversations
Weather:...............Good support for text and graphic reports in all interfaces
Stocks:.................Good support for text and graphic reports in all interfaces
Wifi / Networking:...Corporate and HotSpot support
Programs Tab:........(TD3D2) 3 or 4 column option with app names under icons
Good battery life Business does not mean Boring – It means Practical Predictable Performance
Apps
I would say:
Remote Desktop
World Card
Adobe Reader
Office Suite (obviously)
Google Maps AND Live Search
All of the basics for GPS- QuickGPS, aGPS settings, etc.
Live Messenger (for Office Communicator support)
Those are the 'business' tools that I use most. Does that help?
yes yes yes
thank you for start takeing this as trend
please under the hood basic application
some applications in my rom i cant even remember when i used them
the most imprtant is Battary vs application ( i have charger at the car,home , office., .......poof....)
any small clock tic will eat somthing from the phone
Ram and heat.
my x1 cracked because of the heat, my ear after a good call get fride.
some rams goes above 60%
example i tried yesterday to put my phone in full withe new cocked rom( backlight full and battery power on ) the battarey draind in less than 2 hours, without any call or sms ... nothing
but applications like email,office,sms,organizer and contacts will be fine
yes please Business Edition is great what ever under the hood
Loved the Energy Rom3......but it was lacking (I could not find anyways) Voice Command applet. I use blue-tooth headset continually and have calls/messaging/reminders etc routed thru blue-tooth headset. Would love to see that in the business edition. That's mostly what this phone is used for.
bassam said:
example i tried yesterday to put my phone in full withe new cocked rom... ...nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those **** roms are terrible...
This is an awesome idea... The chrome version was cool... but perhaps more emphasis on productivity. A nice action screen that brings up all of the things you would use on a daily basis and keeps them right at your fingertips... I know I need to take notes at a moments notice in my job... and it's hard to get things where I need them to be sometimes...
Also contacts and appointments are of the utmost importance... Constantly scheduling things and changing them around, it's nice to have things in an easily accessible spot...
Though I don't spend much time on the phone lately... I would imagine bluetooth would be crucial as well... and having as much control from the headset as possible would also be nice...
Then of course some "hey check me out *****es" graphics and apps that are streamlined and professional looking enough to show your boss when you pull the phone out and he asks "what the hell is that thing?"
That's just my $ 750,500,000 ZWD
Quite honestly, your current ROM is fit for business and displays appropriate graphics and tones. The add-ons are typically ones the manufacturers have missed and allow a much better experience than stock. I work with professionals everyday and when I show off ROM's from XDA, they often say if I had seen that at ATT or T-Mobile, I would have purchased this phone vs. Blackberry or iPhone.
This sounds like what I've been waiting for!
A simple WM6.5 interface that is stable and fast. No touchflo, as we all know that is not for business users. I think the best thing for this special business line, is that all the under the hood settings come pre-configured, and don't give us the option to make advanced config changes. I seriously waste so much time trying to tinker with the settings, and eventually make the device less stable.
Also this line should have one application for each function. I rarely need 15 chat clients, and 10 media apps!
Great idea.. Make sure to add Stock and Weather to Chome 6.5 These are helpful for those business travelers on the go with an eye on the market.. The JML Stocks plugin is sweet!!!!
Is this really needed?
I'm nearly new with this machine, but a very heavy Bussiness user of HTC PDAs for 5 years.
Comming from an Hermes, I have flashed your Energy Magic Rom 20090630 after two week of trying the stock one and threads reading here, and for me your main rom is fast, accurate, conservative with battery and completly perfect for work.
If someone feel titanium or tf3d improductive, it could be dissable. And the same could be done with the new menus and notification style.... To change three or four options in the default behaviour of your rom, that could be made with a few clicks here and there, don't justify a new line of roms.
Just my though...
I know these forums are getting less and less traffic but I thought I would bring up a thread that would spark some discussion on best configuration.
Let me first thank all the cooks that have contributed personal time into developing some great ROMs, without them the Athena would be only a shadow of the capable phone it is now. Let me also say I'm not a programmer at all and the following observations are just from my personal experience with some conjecture thrown in.
I think the development of ROMs have almost reached its apex in that I don't think we will get any more performance out of these devices until someone can implement the use of the ATI graphics chip. The reason I say this is because of the ROM I have settled on. After testing EVERY ROM (6.1 and 6.5)that is available on this forum I have settled for Michy RO clean 6.1 ROM. Out of all of them this one gives me the most available program memory (70 to 71 MB) and smoothest responce. In my experience because of the lack of the graphics drivers the more free program mem there is the smoother this device seems to run - same true with how well multiple programs will run. My current configuration is:
Michy RO 6.1 clean ROM (all items unchecked in "Today" so totally blank screen save for the task bar. gsensor turned off - thought with it on i see only a small decrease in program mem of about 250KB and still no lag. email set up and running)
SPB 3.5 Mobile Shell loaded (3.5 runs faster with smaller footprint than 3.0 and has a great new widgets implementation) - weather set up to auto update - works great btw!!
Small tweaks to the task bar icons (no effect on performance..just visual enhancements)
A handful of programs installed:
Pandora, Opera, google maps, WMtorrents, wmwifi, XM&Sirius radio player.
everything else is already installed with the ROM or from mobile shell like Adobe reader, MS office etc...
Performance is great, smooth transitions and fast as anything I have tested to date...carousel spins around smooth as butter with 0 lag. Program Memory is at 61MB (with SPB MS loaded and over 70MB with nothing loaded) and I have had 0 issues with bugs. I have found Opera 9.7 build 35541 to be the best running browser..its very fast (especially with turbo turned on) and almost gives me the same experience as the iphone one (my wife's phone). Only down side is that i cant take advantage of the hardware acceleration that SPB 3.5 mobile shell can use for extra eye candy.
Keep in mind i keep my phone in portrait mode almost all the time. I have found no matter what ROM is used if you go into landscape mode everything lags again because of the lack of hardware acceleration.
As far as the newer 6.5 ROM's, i have tried them all as well but as good as they are they still are not nearly as fast as my setup and wind up using more program mem then my configuration.
Please contribute to this thread if you feel moved to do so. Id like to see if any others have found a better setup that give great response and as much or more program memory than I have been able to set up.
Thanks...