I always want newer and better. Last week I upgraded from dcd's 3.2.6 to 4.1.2. Much faster, better memory, speedy gps locks, and no crashes yet.
I run a few commercial medical reference programs that are a major hassle to load and activate, so it is a pain to keep flashing my phone.
Can anyone comment between how well the 6.5's work vs. dcd 4.1.2
It's a very different animal.
First and foremost, the Today Screen has been completely redone in the default Titanium screen. I'm sure you've seen it around. You can still revert back to the old Today screen with a simple setting adjustment in the Settings Menu.
Secondly, nearly everything features finger friendly scrolling. It's built in with no real need for additional items such as FTouchFLO.
Third, the start menu has been redone to make it look more contemporary. Some people like it, some don't. You can adjust it to your liking by replacing various files.
Fourth, a programmer/PPC junkie going by no2chem introduced something in his 6.1 ROMs called nueKernel which is being implemented into nearly every 6.5 ROM. It allows you to enable or disable the camera temporarily to add more available RAM. Because of this, it's possible to have more free available RAM than you've most likely seen before on the Titan. For example, my ROM (and Ryan's, and most other current 6.5 ROMs) will boot with 25+ meg free.
Fifth, please note that those are most superficial UI adjustments. They are improving things under the hood, too, to make the OS better.
Your best way to compare is by flashing. If you like 6.5, stick with it. If you don't, there are plenty of fantastic 6.1 ROMs to choose from.
if its speed what you want then stay with dcd. no 6.5 has been able to come close to dcd.
on the other hand like btonetbone said a different animal and slower no matter the tweaking.
GeLopez said:
if its speed what you want then stay with dcd. no 6.5 has been able to come close to dcd.
on the other hand like btonetbone said a different animal and slower no matter the tweaking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't argue with this because I don't have benchmarks. DCD's ROMs are extremely fast; I used them all the up through 3.3.something and loved them.
But 6.5 isn't a hog, either. It runs very fast and snappy on my phone, and I have very little complaints regarding speed. Please don't take the above comments as saying the 6.5 ROMs are slow.
compared to dcd 6.5 is slower. i didnt say 6.5 is slow
I'll give you my opinion......... since I played with them all.
I had been running DCD 3.3.4 for 6-8 months until about a month ago when the "tinker bug" kicked in again and I had to flash and play with new ROM's.
I first went to 6.5 ROM's by RyanMogul and a few others both here and on PPCGeeks. All of them are visually stunning, but, all of them ARE slower than ROM's running 6.1
Also, for me, free memory was an issue. 6.5 simply needs more memory than 6.1 and there isn't nothing you can do about it. 6.5 ideally should be run on phones with 128MB RAM or more.
I loved 6.5 for its looks, but, I run programs like SPB Phone Suite, Pocket Weather, Palringo, and others, often simultaneously, and that just wasnt realistic with 6.5 due to low RAM availability.
So I went back to 6.1, and to good old DCD. 4.1.2 is amazing in my opinion. It has major performance and memory management improvements over his previous ROM's. It's incredibly stable, and it IS faster than any other ROM (6.1 or 6.5) I've personally tried out.
It's given my xv6800 some more life. Until the Tour comes out and I jump onto the evil Blackberry bandwagon, 4.1.2 is it for me.
I highly recommend.
rajuabju said:
I'll give you my opinion......... since I played with them all.
I had been running DCD 3.3.4 for 6-8 months until about a month ago when the "tinker bug" kicked in again and I had to flash and play with new ROM's.
I first went to 6.5 ROM's by RyanMogul and a few others both here and on PPCGeeks. All of them are visually stunning, but, all of them ARE slower than ROM's running 6.1
Also, for me, free memory was an issue. 6.5 simply needs more memory than 6.1 and there isn't nothing you can do about it. 6.5 ideally should be run on phones with 128MB RAM or more.
I loved 6.5 for its looks, but, I run programs like SPB Phone Suite, Pocket Weather, Palringo, and others, often simultaneously, and that just wasnt realistic with 6.5 due to low RAM availability.
So I went back to 6.1, and to good old DCD. 4.1.2 is amazing in my opinion. It has major performance and memory management improvements over his previous ROM's. It's incredibly stable, and it IS faster than any other ROM (6.1 or 6.5) I've personally tried out.
It's given my xv6800 some more life. Until the Tour comes out and I jump onto the evil Blackberry bandwagon, 4.1.2 is it for me.
I highly recommend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for explaining that so eloquently. I think you've just convinced me to go back to 6.1 after running 6.5 for roughly a month. 6.5 is amazing and very finger friendly, but not the OS for the Titan. Just uses too much memory, no matter what. I've tried different programs to free up RAM and keep me from soft resetting 2 or 3 times a day, but none of them really work. On 6.5 I can almost never run 2 apps at once, unless they are very small. So back to good ol DCD for me. At least until I get a new device! (touch pro maybe )
Just my 2 cents
Currently I am running Mattsm 6.5 23003b and this morning I was running 4 apps and switching between them with enough memory for all of them. I was on a website, Biblegateway, had a java application open, Go Bible by Jolon Faichney, Word 6.1 and Windows Mobile 6.5 Titanium Today (this skin allows both vertical scrolling and on some panes, horizontal movement) which I was using as the switching point to jump back and forth. I have run DCD ROMs in the past and they are great ROMs but if you want to see what is possible with your Titan follow the different developers.
Showtime7 said:
Thank you for explaining that so eloquently. I think you've just convinced me to go back to 6.1 after running 6.5 for roughly a month. 6.5 is amazing and very finger friendly, but not the OS for the Titan. Just uses too much memory, no matter what. I've tried different programs to free up RAM and keep me from soft resetting 2 or 3 times a day, but none of them really work. On 6.5 I can almost never run 2 apps at once, unless they are very small. So back to good ol DCD for me. At least until I get a new device! (touch pro maybe )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing that DCD kept on repeating with the release of 4.1.2 was that the amount of free memory was determined by what was in the ROM. So you stripped EVERYTHING out and added it later with cabs and you suddenly start with a higher amount of memory from the outset.
I'd love to see Ryan prove this by releasing his "light" rom with a required cab. I bet if the rom didn't have all the the extra ring tones and addons he includes, we'd boot to more than 17.5mb I've available in his wm7 rom.
I'm glad you mentioned you can turn off the new today screen. I'm not impressed so far. But the big thing is that my GPS is working again which it never did with DCD's last release.
BrianLayman said:
One thing that DCD kept on repeating with the release of 4.1.2 was that the amount of free memory was determined by what was in the ROM. So you stripped EVERYTHING out and added it later with cabs and you suddenly start with a higher amount of memory from the outset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you misunderstood me, or i misspoke. free program memory should be the same whether an application is in rom, or installed post-flash.
free storage memory may be slightly higher when applications are installed via cab after flashing, because any files outside of /windows are duplicated when cooked in. however, this is the reason that most htc-written applications run from /windows, and those applications would thus would require the same storage memory whether in ROM or not.
dcd1182 said:
i think you misunderstood me, or i misspoke. free program memory should be the same whether an application is in rom, or installed post-flash.
free storage memory may be slightly higher when applications are installed via cab after flashing, because any files outside of /windows are duplicated when cooked in. however, this is the reason that most htc-written applications run from /windows, and those applications would thus would require the same storage memory whether in ROM or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just thinking, DCD should change his name to Optimus Prime
BrianLayman said:
One thing that DCD kept on repeating with the release of 4.1.2 was that the amount of free memory was determined by what was in the ROM. So you stripped EVERYTHING out and added it later with cabs and you suddenly start with a higher amount of memory from the outset.
I'd love to see Ryan prove this by releasing his "light" rom with a required cab. I bet if the CAB didn't have all the the extra ring tones and addons he includes, we'd boot to more than 17.5mb I've available in his wm7 rom.
I'm glad you mentioned you can turn off the new today screen. I'm not impressed so far. But the big thing is that my GPS is working again which it never did with DCD's last release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't mumble about me incoherently. My ROMs do not use any CABs besides 1.1 Heavy and thats 1 out of 7 ROMs. Version 1.1 Heavy installs Google maps using a cab and M2D via Auto Customization.. Otherwise there is not a single CAB involved in the any other of my ROMs flashing and booting the first time..
The ringtones are not a CAB.. They are added ingredients used while cooking a ROM in a kitchen..
Release my ROM without the required cab...??? wtf.. lol
I know I should include less ringtones but I do the best I can. I don't appreciate my work being examined with a fine tooth comb pointing out any imperfection you can find to take away from its luster..
I release several versions so if you want pretty and loaded, you get that. If you want ugly and slim, you get that too. And a few things in between. Like I said I try.
I will remove some of the ringtones next time I cook and relocate several installs to make sure they stay only in the windows directory because I know what you guys mean.
Some ppl are just dicks. I'm currently running ryans 6.5 the heavy one. He did a great job since I want 6.5 on my mogul till the TP2 comes out. I turned off most of the things I don't need like the new today screen and the camera which I hardly ever use, I'm consistently at over 25mb but I mostly use my phone to get e-mails and txt.
dcd1182 said:
i think you misunderstood me, or i misspoke. free program memory should be the same whether an application is in rom, or installed post-flash.
free storage memory may be slightly higher when applications are installed via cab after flashing, because any files outside of /windows are duplicated when cooked in. however, this is the reason that most htc-written applications run from /windows, and those applications would thus would require the same storage memory whether in ROM or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey who's this guy?? Glad to see your alive and well dcd.... Just another thanks for all you've done for the community....
dcd1182 said:
i think you misunderstood me, or i misspoke. free program memory should be the same whether an application is in rom, or installed post-flash. Free storage memory may be slightly higher when applications are installed via cab after flashing, because any files outside of /windows are duplicated when cooked in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that could fit with what you were saying. Man, now I wish I could find the exact quote. I'd like to better understand what you were saying with this added bit of info. I've searched for about 20 minutes with no luck.
You were responding for the 20th time to someone asking why you'd only released a ROM and one that didn't have games or something in it. I read it to say that if the ROM was smaller and people installed their req software via cabs, in general, everyone would have more free program memory. Which seemed to make sense... I just carried it a little further than you meant, and assumed then that items installed to the device later didn't affect the amount of "ram" available. sigh... I miss the days the memory slider on my old e750 that allowed me to override balance between storage memory and program memory. Anyway, thanks for the additional info.
RyanMogul6800 said:
Please don't mumble about me incoherently. My ROMs do not use any CABs besides 1.1 Heavy and thats 1 out of 7 ROMs. Version 1.1 Heavy installs Google maps using a cab and M2D via Auto Customization.. Otherwise there is not a single CAB involved in the any other of my ROMs flashing and booting the first time..
The ringtones are not a CAB.. They are added ingredients used while cooking a ROM in a kitchen..
Release my ROM without the required cab...??? wtf.. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ryan, dude, slow down a minute and read what I actually typed.
I never said anything about your current ROMS requiring CABs nor did I say that you'd released a ROM that was a missing required CAB.
I was talking about doing an experiment, making a test build, to prove a theory about memory usage. Sometimes that's what we do, we try an idea, see if it improves the situation and drop it when it doesn't pan out. Heck, I didn't even expect you to be reading this thread. So, I certainly wouldn't have been criticizing you or your work here.
What worries me more is the "Please don't mumble about me". No one said anything against you. Even if people do say stuff about your works, don't take it as a criticism about you, personally. If you keep doing that, you'll lead a miserable life as a developer.
I know releasing no-cost software on which everyone has an opinion is difficult. But if you are so uptight, so quickly, you really should step back from reading threads for a bit. This place WILL drive you nuts if you let it, but it will happen much faster if you take everything as a judgment of your worth.
RyanMogul6800 said:
I know I should include less ringtones but I do the best I can. I don't appreciate my work being examined with a fine tooth comb pointing out any imperfection you can find to take away from its luster..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As explained above, I've never criticized a single feature of your ROM. I mentioned 17.5 free on your heavy ROM with the wm7 extras, but I consider that darn good for your heaviest ROM. I've booted under other roms to 15 something.
And as far as "I don't appreciate my work being examined with a fine tooth comb", well... you should.
Take all the input and critiques you can. After 20 years as a programmer I know bugs happen. I'm not perfect. Making good stuff makes me proud, but I'll tell you now that I won't ever create a perfect piece of complex software on the 1st or 10th go around. If someone points out a problem, then that is a chance for my stuff to be even better, if I decide I want to fix it.
I am now running your 6.1 light version, which I think is incredible. Your roms have resolved several issues I've had with this refurb phone I am now using. And while I am extremely impressed with the level of detail you've gone to(like the fact that you've included the right codecs/dlls for tcpmp to play wma files on 6.1), you should not be surprised that I have found a nit-picky mistake and have some suggestions for you to consider.
I'd not share them here in any case, as it is off topic to this thread, and if it will hurt your feelings or honor for me to post it anywhere, I'll keep the information to myself. At least the one suggestion, will add a missing feature to your ROM, but I'll leave it up to you.
Related
32M at boot I am running numerous apps and no problems......smooth and fast......I had 7 apps open at once and it ran them no problem....Skyfire, messaging, etc.......I have TL loaded and still sit at 25-26M....this is by far the best ROM I have run and it is not finished yet.....the camera is not loaded until NO2Chem finishes working on it....if your looking for memory....this is for you!!!!!
is the bluetooth working on it? also, what is the link for it?
edit:
he has a fix for bluetooth, and here is the link. you must donate to download.
http://www.nuerom.com/BlogEngine/
Sweet... I will wait till Someone finishes beta testing right now the release is only for Sprint Users and not for Verizon users.... I am looking foward when they have a verizon release.
Can you upload the newest No2chem rom, please?
urcboss07 said:
Can you upload the newest No2chem rom, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol...no....he said finals will be available for all, but beta builds for those who donate.....if you really want to try it, give him a buck. for all he has done for this device...people should really donate....
I just went up there and only see 6096-3pre1. Is that the rom you are talking about. Also,is it true these will work on Sprint only?
Donate, it is well worth it. Even if its only a small amount, it helps him out alot. and 3pre1 is the latest release. it is a very very stripped down version of wm but it works wonderfully. I can actually do stuff on my mogul now. Biggest noticable loss is no more camera, but he is working on that. IMO, best rom out there right now. Hands down. worth any penny in donations. I plan on donating more when i have the money to
rsohne said:
I just went up there and only see 6096-3pre1. Is that the rom you are talking about. Also,is it true these will work on Sprint only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
works on my verizon got my internet and my vzw stuff
its an impressive beta release but no nuetools *sniffs*
just installed this. the screen switch is REALLY quick. my jawbone works nicely as well.
gmaps/voice command are fast too.
I have Mogul/2.47/3.42.50 & 2.04_003 w/ 60711
I donated, downloaded, and flashed. It's got a lot of memory available, but it's still buggy.
I went back to dcd 3.2.6, which also has good memory and is much less buggy with a working camera.
indagroove said:
I donated, downloaded, and flashed. It's got a lot of memory available, but it's still buggy.
I went back to dcd 3.2.6, which also has good memory and is much less buggy with a working camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you elaborate as to what exactly was buggy?
indagroove said:
I donated, downloaded, and flashed. It's got a lot of memory available, but it's still buggy.
I went back to dcd 3.2.6, which also has good memory and is much less buggy with a working camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is buggy? I have mine loaded up with apps and have no issues at all...I had a scrolling issue where it kept scrolling on its own once....that was I first installed everything which was much earlier in the day.....been running 8-10 hours with no more issues at all.....
I flashed preview 1 last night, pulled out battery, put it back in, loaded my apps, and it ran like sh*t all day today. Great memory but very slow, buggy, half of my programs didn't work, and the battery life was terrible.
Since everyone else seemed to be having a grand time with it, I figured it was my error, and of course it was.
All it took was another hard reset, reinstall, now it runs like a charm
I've always heard people talk about these complex post-flashing rituals, but I figured it wasn't necessary. Well i guess it is a good idea to pull the battery, AND hard reset after a flash after all.
flyers2114 said:
What is buggy? I have mine loaded up with apps and have no issues at all...I had a scrolling issue where it kept scrolling on its own once....that was I first installed everything which was much earlier in the day.....been running 8-10 hours with no more issues at all.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The on-screen keyboard is buggy, you can't see the bottom row of characters.
I think enlarge start menu caused some problems with weirdness in the start menu.
I'm not a fan of the stock dialer, and when I tried to cab install the vogue dialer, the icon for call history was transparent to the today screen.
It seemed to run slower than dcd's rom after I added all my usual programs, even though I had more ram available.
I did not build from the kitchen, just added cabs to the pre-build, so maybe a kitchen build would be more stable. It could also be some non-compatable program that added overall bugginess.
Obviously no camera is kind of a bummer, even though i don't really use the camera all that much anyways.
Overall, I'd say it's a big step forward, and is groundbreaking in some ways. However, I still feel that today, dcd 3.2.6 is overall a more solid rom.
Sprint Users Only? Not really
Per No2Chem, the flash-ready rom is for Sprint. But the kitchen allows you to choose any carrier. I built mine from the kitchen. It took a little time to figure out how to use the kitchen and I can explain if someone needs helps.
Adjust OOM...?
Does anyone know what the 2 "Adjust OOM" options do in the nueROM3 kitchen?
I tried to find answers before posting but was unsuccessful. I just figured since the kitchen and rom itself were so stripped down, that No2Chem would not have made it a point to include them if they were useless, so yesterday I just checked them both and my phone seems fine so far...
Also - I tried posting this question on http://www.nuerom.com but when I hit "save comment" it just sits there and does not actually submit my post. Maybe I'm not signed there? is the login different than the donator login?
indagroove said:
The on-screen keyboard is buggy, you can't see the bottom row of characters.
I think enlarge start menu caused some problems with weirdness in the start menu.
I'm not a fan of the stock dialer, and when I tried to cab install the vogue dialer, the icon for call history was transparent to the today screen.
It seemed to run slower than dcd's rom after I added all my usual programs, even though I had more ram available.
I did not build from the kitchen, just added cabs to the pre-build, so maybe a kitchen build would be more stable. It could also be some non-compatable program that added overall bugginess.
Obviously no camera is kind of a bummer, even though i don't really use the camera all that much anyways.
Overall, I'd say it's a big step forward, and is groundbreaking in some ways. However, I still feel that today, dcd 3.2.6 is overall a more solid rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1...on screen keyboard issue yes...
2 I am runnning Quick menu
3 I am running the Minimal dialer with no probs...
4. In my opinion it is the fatest rom I have used outside of JD's ROM
5. I added all of my apps and regedits through SASHAMI......and added a few OEM's through NuePackage installer.....
6 Camera is an ssue but he is working on that and I knew there was no camera before flashing....I know no camera is a deal breaker for now.....
It is a pre-release but I am sure it will all be working fine when the final build is done....but mine seems to be running fine really....
I am running my setup with WAD and WA3 as startup, usually always a slow go on my titan. I boot up with 27+mb of memory. I set my pagepool at 10 when i made the rom and am very happy. pre0 was a deal breaker for me cause he didn't have working bluetooth. But now that its in the rom again, i couldn't be happier.
Cobaltikus said:
Does anyone know what the 2 "Adjust OOM" options do in the nueROM3 kitchen?
I tried to find answers before posting but was unsuccessful. I just figured since the kitchen and rom itself were so stripped down, that No2Chem would not have made it a point to include them if they were useless, so yesterday I just checked them both and my phone seems fine so far...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has to do with the "Out Of Memory" in windows mobile. (see here http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms911907.aspx) Changing that basically adjust the way WinMo handles OOM's. By lowering the threshold, WinMo doesn't close down apps as eagerly as normal.
-edit-
I also must add that having the extra RAM makes this phone an entirely different beast for me. iGO8 and Opera Mobile 9.5 caused some issues before due to how RAM hungry they are. Now, they are not a problem. But not having the camera is kind of a bummer, and the keyboard is horrible . But I will continue testing because this has MAJOR potential
Cobaltikus said:
Per No2Chem, the flash-ready rom is for Sprint. But the kitchen allows you to choose any carrier. I built mine from the kitchen. It took a little time to figure out how to use the kitchen and I can explain if someone needs helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to try it - please do explain or pm me!
I spent all evening yesterday and all day today and I have still yet to get a satisfactory ROM cooked up. I'm using the ppckitchen.org one. It's pretty straightforward, but I can't get free memory to save my life. I think I managed about 8-9 megs free on a WM 6.1 build and around 6 on a 6.5 build. Not real good. Every ROM gives me a "Low Mem (Camera Enabled)" error on the initial splash screen pretty much every single build I've done. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Even through free memory has been low, storage space has been more than adequate, I have barely dipped below 100 MB free storage.
So, yeah, props to all you wonderful ROM chefs out there for doing such a great job and sharing the love with the rest of us.
Now could someone please help me figure out what the bleep I'm doing wrong here? I would, ideally, like a ROM with lots of toys and goodies. Here is what I would like to include (some of these I initially tried loading as OEMs but have managed to track down CAB installers for them so will just do them all afterwards since I can't find a way to put stuff in the extended ROM with this kitchen). My main goal is to make this build as stylus free as possible. To that end, here is my want/need list for it. Please feel free to critique it. I've been out of the loop on this stuff for quite awhile so I'm not sure what programs are currently being recommended and there are way too many for me to try them all out personally so I'm open to suggestions.
WM 6.5
Weather on today screen (using Titanium Weather V3 currently)
Voice Command (have been using 1.6.21040 version in the kitchen but I took it out of the most recent attempt to free up RAM. It isn't critical right now but if I get another BT headset I will definitely want it.)
Sprint Navigation (we're paying for it, might as well have it unless someone knows of a better free app)
Sprint TV (not necessary but would be a plus)
Manila dialer
Finger Friendly KB of some sort (was going to install fingerkb post install)
good selection of ringones (these don't eat up program RAM do they?)
HTC Audio Manager or equivalent finger friendly music player (can the Chrome be made to use this instead of WMP) (This one is not a requirement, I don't do music much on here since I carry a Zune with me but, again, would be a plus)
Newer camera (not the version that comes on the Titan but the newer one that takes better pictures. I saw it in a ROM, not sure which one)
MusicID (post install is fine, have not seen a CAB for it though)
Java (Do I really need this, I don't really run midlets or whatever they're called?)
.net 2.0
Finger friendly browser (Opera? Firefox? are these better than the IE in WM6.5)
Streaming video player (for youtube and all the others)
Office (Excel and Word at the least)
Comm manager (is one better than the others?)
Flashlight (vjcandela or nuelight)
Selection of games (can install those from cabs too)
the new windows live stuff like the voice activated navigation. May not be any count but I want to try it.
any other useful and recommend utilities
WM 6.1
Pretty much the same as above except replace the 6.5 specific chrome stuff with Manila2D and it's configurator and the new browser is more necessary.
Like I said, though, if anyone has any advice I am all ears on this one. If I can get a properly working and stable ROM I will try to upload it for anyone else that wants it as a thank you for the help.
Hey don't quit keep going... I'm sure that the more times you try it eventually you'll get a working rom.
Thanks. I finally got up to about 11 MB with WM 6.5 by leaving Voice Command out. It's not ideal but it is a start. Need to get something to have it close programs instead of leaving them running.
Avatar28 said:
Thanks. I finally got up to about 11 MB with WM 6.5 by leaving Voice Command out. It's not ideal but it is a start. Need to get something to have it close programs instead of leaving them running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6.5 has nuekernel
If in low memory mode so that camera will work you loose 5-7mb.
In high memory mode you gain mb but cannot use camera.
My time to cook is coming... I can feel it...
Seems like a lot of work, but well worth it if you pull it off... Keep up your efforts!
2nd those props!
2nd those props!
So far I haven't had a lot of luck with 6.5. It seems that these phones just simply don't have enough RAM to handle it properly and give me everything I want. I guess I will have to go back to 6.1. Although, really, it probably isn't worth my time. A lot of people here at work have been complaining about their Moguls. They want their precious crackberries back (ugh!). So they're getting rid of these and swapping them out now. I'm going to wait as long as possible before I swap mine though. There's sure to be a line and, honestly, I'd just as soon keep my Mogul if I can get it stable. Otherwise I'm gonna have to come up with $350 to buy a new personal phone to feed my WiMo addiction. I can't believe AT&T has jacked up the Fuze to $350 though. Yeesh. I'm tempted to just wait until their next one comes along at this point, hopefully one that will support 6.5 officially.
Avatar28 said:
So far I haven't had a lot of luck with 6.5. It seems that these phones just simply don't have enough RAM to handle it properly and give me everything I want. I guess I will have to go back to 6.1. Although, really, it probably isn't worth my time. A lot of people here at work have been complaining about their Moguls. They want their precious crackberries back (ugh!). So they're getting rid of these and swapping them out now. I'm going to wait as long as possible before I swap mine though. There's sure to be a line and, honestly, I'd just as soon keep my Mogul if I can get it stable. Otherwise I'm gonna have to come up with $350 to buy a new personal phone to feed my WiMo addiction. I can't believe AT&T has jacked up the Fuze to $350 though. Yeesh. I'm tempted to just wait until their next one comes along at this point, hopefully one that will support 6.5 officially.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I read your posts correctly you have found some of the cabs for the programs you want for your build, but I saw no mention of a memory card. Have you tried building your rom and then installing the cabs to the programs you like on the memory card? Not all programs can be installed on the memory card but alot of the ones you have listed can be. I recommend at least a 2 gig. (I have a 4 gig on my phone). Just make sure its not the HC memory cards as they are not compatible with this device. Like I said Im not sure if you have already gone this route but its just a suggestion. Hope this helps.
PRBajista 9:
PRBajista said:
If I read your posts correctly you have found some of the cabs for the programs you want for your build, but I saw no mention of a memory card. Have you tried building your rom and then installing the cabs to the programs you like on the memory card? Not all programs can be installed on the memory card but alot of the ones you have listed can be. I recommend at least a 2 gig. (I have a 4 gig on my phone). Just make sure its not the HC memory cards as they are not compatible with this device. Like I said Im not sure if you have already gone this route but its just a suggestion. Hope this helps.
PRBajista 9:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a couple of apps that I have done that with. But, really, the problem isn't storage so much as operational RAM. I finally decided that I could either use WM 6.5 or the camera and that I would rather have 6.5. Putting the phone into high memory mode helped a lot with it, but it still quickly memory leaks down to about 12 megs free. I'm working with the chef of my current ROM over at ppckitchen trying to figure it out. I'm starting to wonder if some of these devices don't have a hardware issue that causes some people to have memory leaks or if it is possibly related to the bootloader (2.40 vs 2.47) because some people seem to have no problem with them while almost every custom ROM I have tried running seems to have a memory leak.
Hi Everyone,
I am hoping to replace the ROM in my Sprint Mogul phone since I cannot replace the phone for over a year. I am looking for an Android/iPhone type of interface. The less I have to use my stylus the better. And I am hoping for a snappier interface. I would also like to be able to use the camera and wifi occasionally. I also use Sprint's Navigation package often and plan to buy an off road mapping program. Every day I use calendar and contacts. Finally I use the bluetooth every day with MS voice command.
My Mogul is on ROM V 3.35.651.2, Radio V 3.35.04.
I've read through the wiki and believe I understand the process. The one area I am struggling with is which ROM will best suit my needs. From the wiki I find these choices:
dcd
scrosler
nueROM
No2chem 5067
Key kitchen
Which ROM would you recommend to best suit my needs?
No replies? So I guess DCD it is.
sonwon said:
No replies? So I guess DCD it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no replies because its a silly question. read the different ROM threads and see what users are saying about them. put the pieces together based on things you read and BOOM, flash a ROM. try it out. if you dont like it, try another. very easy.
Thanks for the reply.
I was looking for a good foundation build for a stylus free experience. And hoping to save some time by not having to flash my way through a zillion ROMs.
Well I mean, these phones are not meant to be touch screen only like a iPhone. You can install a ROM with a lot of finger friendly app's and then top it off with an install of FtouchFlo which enables 4 way touch scrolling in any app that needs panned or scrolled.
That was the route I am headed in since I have another year with this phone. I am working on a list of applications now. My partial list:
iris browser
calendar+
pocketCM
manilla 2D
HTC home
HTS home customizer
s2u2
PCM keyboard
SPB mobile shell
youtubeplayer
I likely have some duplicates in this list.
sonwon said:
That was the route I am headed in since I have another year with this phone. I am working on a list of applications now. My partial list:
iris browser
calendar+
pocketCM
manilla 2D
HTC home
HTS home customizer
s2u2
PCM keyboard
SPB mobile shell
youtubeplayer
I likely have some duplicates in this list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you'lll want to stick with the 6.1 roms then. also, if you do 6.5 its a little intense on the mogul due to memory usage, i have roughly 8 megs free on a good day with active sync running.
i think with the ryan RUU 6.1 i had around 30-35 free
gangaskan said:
you'lll want to stick with the 6.1 roms then. also, if you do 6.5 its a little intense on the mogul due to memory usage, i have roughly 8 megs free on a good day with active sync running.
i think with the ryan RUU 6.1 i had around 30-35 free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Geez, assess what you have running! I have a solid 25 meg free on 6.5. You may have quite a lot going on in the background.
btonetbone said:
Geez, assess what you have running! I have a solid 25 meg free on 6.5. You may have quite a lot going on in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just syncing to exchange is all. and whatever is at start from the firmware (using RUU light 2.1 Winmo6.5)
i changed my page size to 6, freed up alot actually.
oh, and btonetbone, are you using himem or lowmem? i still use my camera, so its under low, with high mem, i think its around 25 free
gangaskan said:
oh, and btonetbone, are you using himem or lowmem? i still use my camera, so its under low, with high mem, i think its around 25 free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm usually in high memory mode. But that doesn't usually cause a 17 meg variance; it's more like 6 or 7.
btonetbone said:
I'm usually in high memory mode. But that doesn't usually cause a 17 meg variance; it's more like 6 or 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could be why, i'm using low memory mode for the camera
I think 6.5 is worth the loss of RAM.
My custom 6.5 has about 27.5 on boot, around 24 after a day of use. That's with high mem mode. With low mem, 21M on boot. That's about as good as you will get with 6.5. If you need more RAM than that, go with 6.1. You simply won't get more than 28M on boot with 6.5.
I loaded DCD's ROM and then decided I wanted to try Ryan's WM 6.5 UI 7 heavy ROM. After loading I noticed there was only 10MB free and decided that wouldn't work for me so I went back to the DCD ROM. Now when I boot I still see Ryan's splash screen. I did the hard reset. I am guessing there is a spot where the ROM doesn't overwrite can someone nudge me in the right direction on how to replace files there?
Also, I am going to give Ryan's WM 6.5 UI 7 light ROM a try.
sonwon said:
I loaded DCD's ROM and then decided I wanted to try Ryan's WM 6.5 UI 7 heavy ROM. After loading I noticed there was only 10MB free and decided that wouldn't work for me so I went back to the DCD ROM. Now when I boot I still see Ryan's splash screen. I did the hard reset. I am guessing there is a spot where the ROM doesn't overwrite can someone nudge me in the right direction on how to replace files there?
Also, I am going to give Ryan's WM 6.5 UI 7 light ROM a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To have more free RAM using WM 6.5 on a TITAN its recommended that you run in High Memory mode, meaning Camera Disabled. Even with my light version you are still going to need to disable camera. It all depends on what you use the phone for. If you go into Settings/System Settings/NueKernel and run in High Memory you will see a huge difference in memory. Just remember to turn camera back on before flashing to another ROM that does not include Nuekernel.
Thanks for the reply Ryan. I'll give that a try.
What about the splash screen?
Also what is the phone doing while the splash screen is showing, seems like a long wait at this spot.
my mogul will be here this week and i want to unlock it and flash the latest gps rom and radio. the ppc will be for sprint. id also like to install a light weight but fast 6.5 rom as well. can you guys point me in the right direction? will the bell 3.42.50 radio work on this phone?
thanks in advance!
anybody???
There's a wiki somewhere but you can use this from over at ppcgeeks.
http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=33857
This tells you how to do everything.
okay but can you guys recommend a lightweight 6.5 rom?
I alternate between RyanMogul's heavy 6.5 ROM (he makes a light too - I just haven't tried it) and bbsandkm's light 6.5 ROM (over at ppcgeeks). Both are great!
I vote for bbsandkm's light 6.5 ROM
I vote for ryanmoguls It seems to be there one I always go back to.
You bought a Mogul? Please tell me for less than $25...
If you want lightweight stick with a stripped down 6.1 ROM. Unless you really want Titanium or the Honeycomb (both of which I absolutely hate) then I've seen no benefit to running 6.5. Then again I haven't tested Ryan's 6.5 so maybe that one actually doesn't suck like all the others I've tested. They just eat tons of RAM with no difference other than Titanium and Honeycomb.
I second 6.1... Get DCD's 4.1.2 and you will have at least twice as much free ram as when you use 6.5... I tested 6.5 for about two weeks, went back to dcd's rom and I will never flash back to 6.5. It's just the fastest, lightest rom I've experienced, and it has some nice features as well. His older roms are good too but you miss out on some things like the touchflo in menus and in PIE. Well if you like soft resetting every couple hours then go for 6.5, knock yourself out. But if you're looking for overall best, most convenient, fastest, smoothest rom, I'd strongly recommend DCD's 4.1.2. With the right CAB's you will be able to suit it up how you like, but once you go 6.5 there's very little programs you can install and still have reasonable ram to work with.
Showtime7 said:
I second 6.1... Get DCD's 4.1.2 and you will have at least twice as much free ram as when you use 6.5... I tested 6.5 for about two weeks, went back to dcd's rom and I will never flash back to 6.5. It's just the fastest, lightest rom I've experienced, and it has some nice features as well. His older roms are good too but you miss out on some things like the touchflo in menus and in PIE. Well if you like soft resetting every couple hours then go for 6.5, knock yourself out. But if you're looking for overall best, most convenient, fastest, smoothest rom, I'd strongly recommend DCD's 4.1.2. With the right CAB's you will be able to suit it up how you like, but once you go 6.5 there's very little programs you can install and still have reasonable ram to work with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you used a good 6.5 if that's the case. After everything is installed on my ROM, I boot with over 25 meg free. At the end of the day, I'm still well above 21.
I'm not saying 6.1 is bad - in fact, I spent a day on DCD 4.1.2 and remembered what good work he did. It's a fantastic ROM, but I have not ever seen that poor memory on 6.5.
unL33T said:
If you want lightweight stick with a stripped down 6.1 ROM. Unless you really want Titanium or the Honeycomb (both of which I absolutely hate) then I've seen no benefit to running 6.5. Then again I haven't tested Ryan's 6.5 so maybe that one actually doesn't suck like all the others I've tested. They just eat tons of RAM with no difference other than Titanium and Honeycomb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, 6.5 is slightly more finger-friendly than 6.1, like, finger scrolling works in most apps on a bare 6.5
I tried a least 4 different roms... new released ones, this was like 2 weeks ago. Please point me to a stable, fast 6.5 rom with that much available memory and I will take what I said back, but I tried numerous roms with no luck. None anything even close to DCD's.
Showtime7 said:
I tried a least 4 different roms... new released ones, this was like 2 weeks ago. Please point me to a stable, fast 6.5 rom with that much available memory and I will take what I said back, but I tried numerous roms with no luck. None anything even close to DCD's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying I'm as good as DCD; he has waaaay more technical knowledge than I could ever lay claim to. But here you go. My ROM boots on the initial flash in the high 20's of free RAM. Make sure you set this to High Memory Mode under Start -> Settings -> System -> Kernel.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=532030
Thanks, I'll try it out tonight and report back.
I just finished a WM 6.1 Build 21042 kitchen. Its pretty straight forward.
So far so good, looks like I was wrong. But I don't know how annoying it will be to have to reset every time I have to use my camera. I'll see how well the memory holds after I get my apps, though with 6.5 as I remember apps are hardly needed, at least not for finger friendliness.
Kwokinator said:
Well, 6.5 is slightly more finger-friendly than 6.1, like, finger scrolling works in most apps on a bare 6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newer versions of 6.1 have this as well.
Also, I actually prefer to NOT have that functionality in a ROM because then I can install FTouchFlo and have finger friendly gestures working in almost EVERY program whether it came with the ROM or not. If it's built into the OS it becomes harder to figure out how to make the built in gesture functionality not conflict with FTouchFlo.
It is nice sometimes though to just flash a ROM and have finger gestures right out of the box.
OK so after running this ROM for a while I can see its mostly like the rest of the 6.5 roms I've tried. It started with the most available ram I've seen in a 6.5 rom but that is mainly due to the disabled camera. I start off at about 26mb free after flash, 23mb free on boot after installing all my apps and whatnot. Few hours later, I'm at 10-15mb free. I must be missing something here. No I don't use apps running in the background, yes I use hibernate every now and then. Still no use, I'm under 15mb free now without a camera. With DCD's rom I was just using I never went under 15, with my camera enabled. So I am thinking about flashing back, but I'm not completely sure. Maybe I'm missing something.
Showtime7 said:
OK so after running this ROM for a while I can see its mostly like the rest of the 6.5 roms I've tried. It started with the most available ram I've seen in a 6.5 rom but that is mainly due to the disabled camera. I start off at about 26mb free after flash, 23mb free on boot after installing all my apps and whatnot. Few hours later, I'm at 10-15mb free. I must be missing something here. No I don't use apps running in the background, yes I use hibernate every now and then. Still no use, I'm under 15mb free now without a camera. With DCD's rom I was just using I never went under 15, with my camera enabled. So I am thinking about flashing back, but I'm not completely sure. Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I experienced in the 6.5 ROMs I tried.
Hi,
This is just a sum up of my last two day's experience flashing my Athena.
When I got it from eBay, it hat the german WM5 installed. Though I speak German, I did not want a german Firmware, so I installed Michy's WM6.1.
I was quite happy with it, but one thing annoyed me: on the original WM5, I could scroll in IE by tilting the device and Opera worked quite well, too.
On Michy's firmware, that functionality lacked somehow.
What I never got used to, was the huge size of icon's and menu's, so I started to use RealVGA. Unfortunatly the phone dialer doesn't like it, so I had to install an alternative software for it.
Over all, the phone worked pretty OK.
Because I got the swine flue, I had some extra time on my own, specially inbetween the fevers and so I decided to try out AP40, specially in order to get the SPL35 done for future WM6.5 releases.
1) AP40
The install went through fine and I had no problems.
First thing I checked was WIFI, because of the dreaded MAC-loss, but WIFI worked straight ahead.
I finished syncing, rebuilding all links in Start Menu and was happy about the new firmware...
...until I tried to switch on WIFI again. It could see my AP's, but Athena would not connect to any.
2) WM6.5
Because I did not find any fix for that, but found a few posts of others complaining about the same problem with AP40, I moved on and installed avengerpenguin's WM6.5.
While the ROM is great and the only bug I noticed was the wrong mapping of the FUNCTION key, I discovered something else:
WM6.5 sucks!
Huge icons, in a kind of honeycomb arrangement, making you have to scroll forever until the required icon is found.
Everything slow like hell (and Athena's CPU is fast enough, I would say).
Also, the menu structure is ridiculous. Makes no sense at all.
3) Back to Michy WM6.1
At then end, I went back to the ROM I had in the beginning of this journey. Now I need to rebuild all the Start Menu links (stupid me, I deleted the backup). It's about 30-40 programs I have installed on my SD - what the heck.
Conclusions:
1) AP40 has indeed a WIFI problem besides the missing MAC. This renders AP40 pretty useless to me.
2) WM6.5 sucks big time. I hate it.
3) Not sure if I should try an official WM6.0 ROM, before restoring all links. Curious about IE supporting the tilting to scroll.
4) My next phone will be an iPhone. Yes, I said it. Here is why:
- best browser around
- has some great applications
- best touch screen around
- just works
Perhaps I am getting old, but I do feel frustrated of having to flash all these firmware and none is giving all I need. Each firmware has something great but lacks something else.
Of course it's not the cookers fault - they are doing a great job.
It rather seems that Microsoft and the Provider (not even HTC's fault), just don't seem to give a F*** to their customer's satisfaction.
Example: How can it be possible that a device as the Athena, with such a big screen, has to be put up with the same menu's like a QVGA device? It almost hurts the eye to have such big menu's and icons.
Of course, you can install RealVGA, but then half of the programs don't work properly...
I just hope the company switches provider soon and gives me the option to pay the price difference for the iPhone.
Cheers,
vma
firmware frustration
vma said:
Hi,
This is just a sum up of my last two day's experience flashing my Athena.
When I got it from eBay, it hat the german WM5 installed. Though I speak German, I did not want a german Firmware, so I installed Michy's WM6.1.
I was quite happy with it, but one thing annoyed me: on the original WM5, I could scroll in IE by tilting the device and Opera worked quite well, too.
On Michy's firmware, that functionality lacked somehow.
What I never got used to, was the huge size of icon's and menu's, so I started to use RealVGA. Unfortunatly the phone dialer doesn't like it, so I had to install an alternative software for it.
Over all, the phone worked pretty OK.
Because I got the swine flue, I had some extra time on my own, specially inbetween the fevers and so I decided to try out AP40, specially in order to get the SPL35 done for future WM6.5 releases.
1) AP40
The install went through fine and I had no problems.
First thing I checked was WIFI, because of the dreaded MAC-loss, but WIFI worked straight ahead.
I finished syncing, rebuilding all links in Start Menu and was happy about the new firmware...
...until I tried to switch on WIFI again. It could see my AP's, but Athena would not connect to any.
2) WM6.5
Because I did not find any fix for that, but found a few posts of others complaining about the same problem with AP40, I moved on and installed avengerpenguin's WM6.5.
While the ROM is great and the only bug I noticed was the wrong mapping of the FUNCTION key, I discovered something else:
WM6.5 sucks!
Huge icons, in a kind of honeycomb arrangement, making you have to scroll forever until the required icon is found.
Everything slow like hell (and Athena's CPU is fast enough, I would say).
Also, the menu structure is ridiculous. Makes no sense at all.
3) Back to Michy WM6.1
At then end, I went back to the ROM I had in the beginning of this journey. Now I need to rebuild all the Start Menu links (stupid me, I deleted the backup). It's about 30-40 programs I have installed on my SD - what the heck.
Conclusions:
1) AP40 has indeed a WIFI problem besides the missing MAC. This renders AP40 pretty useless to me.
2) WM6.5 sucks big time. I hate it.
3) Not sure if I should try an official WM6.0 ROM, before restoring all links. Curious about IE supporting the tilting to scroll.
4) My next phone will be an iPhone. Yes, I said it. Here is why:
- best browser around
- has some great applications
- best touch screen around
- just works
Perhaps I am getting old, but I do feel frustrated of having to flash all these firmware and none is giving all I need. Each firmware has something great but lacks something else.
Of course it's not the cookers fault - they are doing a great job.
It rather seems that Microsoft and the Provider (not even HTC's fault), just don't seem to give a F*** to their customer's satisfaction.
Example: How can it be possible that a device as the Athena, with such a big screen, has to be put up with the same menu's like a QVGA device? It almost hurts the eye to have such big menu's and icons.
Of course, you can install RealVGA, but then half of the programs don't work properly...
I just hope the company switches provider soon and gives me the option to pay the price difference for the iPhone.
Cheers,
vma
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HI vma
I must say frankly, you've just expressed the conclusion I have been slowly coming to myself. I have also tried all possible roms and actually never been happy as there's always sth that doesn't work.
Perhaps it's windows mobile. I still hesitate as I'm waiting for a new athena from HTC. But perhaps Iphone is not such a bad idea.
Hi,
When I saw a first reply, I though it was to flame me for my unkind word to WM devices...
I have to admit I was a bit pissed. Afterall it took me two days of flashing, backing up, restoring backups, only to realize that the firmware I had (Michy's WM6.1) wasn't that bad.
During all that I thought I had fried my Athena - it stopped responding and it took me hald an hour to realize that the trick is to hold BOTH the camera and the communications buttons, while doing the reset.
I then reinstalled Michy's ROM again and somehow it has a bug, which must be the reason I had problems in the past: it will produce errors syncronizing.
At the end I thought that after so much efforts and me being in bed anyway, I might as well give the official WM6 from T-Mobile a try.
Well, I just finished shaping it to my desires. Took quite some time, but: tilting works, Youtube works (not inside the browser, but still it works), Opera and IE have nice renderings, allowing to zoom in and out (somehow on Michy's ROM the zoomlevel was always to big).
I think the ROM is now pretty OK. If I knew how to cook ROM's, I would cook it exactly like this.
Does this give me inner peace to take back what I said before?
No.
I am totally disappointed by WM6.5. It just sucks and is a waste of space on any screen with more than 320x200 resolution.
It is a waste on resources (our devices have faster and faster processors, yet WM seems to get less and less responsive).
The most important applications are the internet applications: wtf has IE such a big menu bar on top and bottom?
The list goes on and on and I won't even bother.
To all the cooks: I truly respect and appreciate your work. Please don't get annoyed by my postings. It is not your fault that Microsoft has been producing such a bad OS.
To all of you, who did not yet try it: pick an iPhone from someone (not the ones in the shops, specially the ones not connected to the internet) and play with it for 10 minutes... You will understand what I mean:
- you swipe the finger to scroll a page and it like flies under your finger. No resistance or lag whatsoever
- you open a webpage and it loads FAST. You can scroll it, zoom in and out and it just is so responsive
Ok. Enough crying...
Truth is: look at my signature and see that I always liked WinCE devices a lot... Shame the evolution seemed to have gone the wrong way.
Cheers,
vma
vma said:
Because I did not find any fix for that, but found a few posts of others complaining about the same problem with AP40, I moved on and installed avengerpenguin's WM6.5.
While the ROM is great and the only bug I noticed was the wrong mapping of the FUNCTION key, I discovered something else:
WM6.5 sucks!
Huge icons, in a kind of honeycomb arrangement, making you have to scroll forever until the required icon is found.
Everything slow like hell (and Athena's CPU is fast enough, I would say).
Also, the menu structure is ridiculous. Makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I can answer some of your issues with 6.5, the function key, is close to being fixed just needs some work on the keyboard map posted by xtep in the x7510 section.
The icons/menu can be fixed to an extent, not sure how though, it is possible to get smaller icons etc 4 or 5 across but I havent had time to research it fully as yet, also I have used some 6.5 roms for my blackstone that manage to use the old 6.1 menu system.
Now the biggest possibly hardest issue is the speed, I believe that most of the issues come from the fact that we do not have a native 6.5 memory kernel for the athena, which gives an additional 2 32mb memory slots to the OS, I am no expert but I think it is possible to port a memory kernel to the athena but this exceeds my capabilities and I am yet to find someone who can do it.
This would give us the greatest increase in speed etc, whilst my roms are optimized as far as I am capable there is still a long way to go.
However with this said I do agree with you winmo 6.5 is not that fast, not as fast as it should be with a 624mhz processor. When you compare it to something like android or Iphone it really seems to show its age/limitations
for me the R0 6.1 ROM has given me the most speed of ANY ROM out yet. It also has no bugs that I can see. Mem after a reset is 70MB and I think this goes a long way to giving the most speed.
I also want to make sure I'm not misunderstood, I think all the cooks on here have done incredible things given the constraints this OS gives them and my hats off to all of you that put so much time into developing new ROMs.
One other issue I think has hampered overall speed and usefullnes is the lack of a good driver for the graphics chip in the athena. I don't think we have ever had full access to it so rendering could be greatly improved thus making the speed that much better.
mietulok said:
HI vma
I must say frankly, you've just expressed the conclusion I have been slowly coming to myself. I have also tried all possible roms and actually never been happy as there's always sth that doesn't work.
Perhaps it's windows mobile. I still hesitate as I'm waiting for a new athena from HTC. But perhaps Iphone is not such a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you there. I have actually purchased a MacBook Pro to replace my old Toshiba Satellite 5105 s702 recently. Even though I installed XP (dual boot) on the MacBook Pro, I found myself using OS X on it more than XP. I plan to do the same (buy an iPhone) when my Athena dies. Micro$oft has lost control of their hardware vendors who have no interest in long term support/loyalty building and only interested in taking customers' money and run.
our dear athenas
"I am no expert but I think it is possible to port a memory kernel to the athena but this exceeds my capabilities and I am yet to find someone who can do it."
avengerpenguin,
Like sb else has written here, I also don't want to be misundersood as I have a lot of respect for all the cooks here, and especially for you as I have been following your work on win 6.5 ROM. If there were more guys here with so much enthusiasm, perhaps we wouldn't be moaning about windows mobile.
Anyway I still use a cooked rom so even with some minor bugs we can at least partly enjoy our athenas. I guess HTC has just forgotten about probably the most loyal user group - athena owners. I have had mine for almost 3 years and got used to it so much that it's a pain for me to think that there may come the time when I'll have to replace it.