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Hi,
from the Streak's wiki page I know that we have a 1 GHZ cpu and a decent gpu in the Streak. The Iphone 4 also has a 1 GHZ cpu. Assuming that the Iphone's hardware is a little more upmarket than the Streak's I'm still completely confused why the Iphone (even the old 3GS) plays Epic Citadel ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvSckim3GzI ) at a high framerate whereas my Streak can't even play Dungeon Defenders (an Unreal 3 engine based game) at an acceptable framerate.
I am running froyo 2.2.2 and I'm getting 1200 points in the Quadrant test.
Comparing the Epic Citadel demo with the Streak stuttering at some older gameloft titles I wonder how much faster the Iphone really is ? Seems the Iphone has several times the power of a Streak or Nexus or Desire etc...
How come ?
Also: Is it normal that more demanding games like Dungeon Defenders have terrible performance on the Streak ?
Are you on a stock rom? which one
I'd prob be a bit faster on streakdroid + OC
You are talking about 2 different platforms.
I do not play games so cannot really answer you question but dont go with the quadrant numbers.
I'm on stock 2.2.2 but according to other peoples quadrant score custom roms aren't much faster.
I mean the epic citadel demo features almost next gen graphics wheras the Streak (and probably any non dualcore android phone) offers playstation 1 (maybe 2) like 3d performance.
Just wondering how the iphone achieves that. Especially as the citadel demo also runs on the old iphone 3gs which only has a 600mhz cpu.
I guess the citadel demo is somehow tweaked in the highest possible way. The android smartphones are not that optimized for specific applications because it's a more open platform.
powervrs tend to be a bit faster then adrenos
the iphone 3gs uses a SGX535 i believe?
the s5 uses an adreno 200
powervr chips have always been faster then adreno in 3d/gpu
streakdroid averages 1600 in quad and can go up to 2600 with perfmod (though the latter doesnt do as much as the former)
more importantly you can oc the cpu to 1.1ghz and possibly higher in the future, seeing as snapdragon is an SoC the gpu might be tied to the cpu's clockrate and ocing might improve it a bit.
If the whole thing is gpu bound it doesnt really matter how fast/slow the cpu is (unless it reverses back to being cpu bound)
if you want a more fair comparison try something like the galaxy s (1) it uses the sgx535 i believe
It could be a driver issue as the s5 isnt exactly the best in the case of drivers, you could also compare it to other snapdragon 8x50 chips like in the nexus 1 or htc desire
Hugo32 said:
I'm on stock 2.2.2 but according to other peoples quadrant score custom roms aren't much faster.
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my streaks quadrant score is between 1900 and 2200 dependent on how it feels at the time
the custom roms are a lot faster then what dell has to offer
Stock roms are slower since they have a lot of hardware acceleration turned off, some can be reenabled by editing build.props and some require a custom kernel (like in streakdroid)
Half the real work on streakdroid is irking out every performence tweak that dj_steve and fards knows of, but not all of them are stable so they become optional (like perfmod)
After downloading dungeon defenders and poking around on title screen/opening lvl thing it seems acceptly fast if you turn down resolution,
i cant find how to turn on fps counter though
But isn't there a 60fps cap in the stock rom. So you can't really compare it to custom roms...
Fps cap doesnt matter if you're not even hitting it, I'm pretty sure even with res turned down it's still only running at mabye ~30 fps?
I've only got my galaxy tab 10.1 for a week or so. It ran rather smoothly out of the box. But then it just slowed down. Now it frequently stutters when multitasking, screen rotating orientation, or even just running some applications. Things get particularly worse when live wallpaper is on. I checked in the setting/applications/running services to make sure I didn't run out of RAM (there was often still 300 something MB free).
Did any of you experience that? What would you suggest me doing to resolve this issue? Or is there no solution to this? I do remember everything running fine without lagging when I first used it.
Any sharing or suggestions are much appreciated.
None of the available tablets are capable of running live wallpapers smoothly. I don't have any problem otherwise though. Try doing a factory reset.
thanks. i probably should.
The Tegra 2 chip is not capable of running live wallpapers smoothly due to its crippled 32bit memory interface. It simply does not have enough memory bandwidth to process. Tegra 2 was SUPPOSED to have dual channel memory but Nvidia decided to ditch the second 32bit channel (which would have greatly improved performance under live wallpapers and games) to save power
This is the same reason why you notice your tablet slowing down after using it for a little while. Once system memory starts to get filled Android OS needs to shuffle around memory, remove apps from memory to make room for newly launched apps, ect. This all takes alot of memory bandwidth and with only a 32bit wide channel you can see why your tablet slows down. Especially when doing anything visual like swiping home screens across.
Most people dont know that Tegra 2 is an old chipset. Its been around for over a year now. I was blown away and shocked when I found that Nvidia used a crippled 32bit single channel memory interface. Not sure what they were thinking
I cant wait for TIs dual-core SoC, they run dual channel memory and have a GPU many times faster that Tegra 2. If you want to run live wallpapers its best to skip any Tegra 2 device and wait for a unit with TIs SoC later this summer or a Tegra 3 which will be in tablets in 5 months.
Many people feel their tablets and phones perform a lot better (at least when on the home screens) when you use a third-party launcher like ADW Launcher Ex or Launcher Pro.
kytz said:
Many people feel their tablets and phones perform a lot better (at least when on the home screens) when you use a third-party launcher like ADW Launcher Ex or Launcher Pro.
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third-party launcher will do nothing to improve performance and has absolutely nothing to do with live wallpapers or the performance of the unit.
magic smoke
I re flashed the tab 10.1 back to the 3.01 OS and It runs live wall papers great. No shuddering and my applications load quickly. I Do use android assistant and shut down any programs I don't use. Gonna try the new kernel.
so 3rd party launchers are bad... why? also, a new kernel for the tab? already?
beaker2007 said:
so 3rd party launchers are bad... why? also, a new kernel for the tab? already?
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3rd party launchers are just apps. There is nothing wrong with them but they certainly don't improve performance of any aspect of the device.
Any upcoming devices that will have the TI dual core cpu in it? Or will Tegra 3 be far superior by that time?
ericc191 said:
Any upcoming devices that will have the TI dual core cpu in it? Or will Tegra 3 be far superior by that time?
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Archos is launching a tablet with the 1.5ghz TI dual core chip really soon. Itll be much faster than tegra 2 and have 3 times the gpu performance. The gpu performance on the tegra 2 is just plain awful even for a 1st gen device.
Thanks 5thElement for your detailed information. Now I have a much better understanding of how this problem came to be. For now though, I couldn't stand the lagging behind any more and reset the tab to factory setting. Smooth all around once again. Will have to re-purchase all the apps I paid for though. This part sucks!
Actually just found out u need not repurchase anything. Google sync remembers everything and does a full recovery of all settings and apps for u. Kudos to google!
5thElement said:
If you want to run live wallpapers its best to skip any Tegra 2 device and wait for a unit with TIs SoC later this summer or a Tegra 3 which will be in tablets in 5 months.
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and those tablets are...?
5thElement said:
Archos is launching a tablet with the 1.5ghz TI dual core chip really soon. Itll be much faster than tegra 2 and have 3 times the gpu performance. The gpu performance on the tegra 2 is just plain awful even for a 1st gen device.
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They will indeed be more than likely faster than Tegra 2 but for the record the TI OMAP 4460 uses Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 540 GPUs which are the same GPUs used in the Samsung Galaxy S phones (not the new SIIs). That isnt a massive difference between Gefore ULP.
Now, the TIs OMAP 5 chipset does use a shock and awesome GPU that is dangerously similar to the iPads GPU which is from ITs PowerVR SGX 544 MP line and those are a true dual core GPU. Anandtech has some GPU benchmarks covering this....
MrSewerPickle said:
They will indeed be more than likely faster than Tegra 2 but for the record the TI OMAP 4460 uses Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 540 GPUs which are the same GPUs used in the Samsung Galaxy S phones (not the new SIIs). That isnt a massive difference between Gefore ULP.
Now, the TIs OMAP 5 chipset does use a shock and awesome GPU that is dangerously similar to the iPads GPU which is from ITs PowerVR SGX 544 MP line and those are a true dual core GPU. Anandtech has some GPU benchmarks covering this....
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Click to collapse
The PowerVR 540 will be significantly faster than tegra 2 not only because it has a unified architecture but because TIs SoC will have dual channel memory unlike the crippled single channel memory the Tegra 2 has. The memory bandwidth on the tegra 2 is pathetic and it has to be shared with video which is seriously crippling for the Tegra 2 and its poor performance sticks out like a sore thumb as you can see when you try to run live wallpapers.
switched to launcher pro live wallpapers run fine
5thElement said:
third-party launcher will do nothing to improve performance and has absolutely nothing to do with live wallpapers or the performance of the unit.
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You are wrong my live wp work fine no stutters now. Thanks for the single channel knowledge.Although launcher pro seemed to fix my issue
5thElement said:
third-party launcher will do nothing to improve performance and has absolutely nothing to do with live wallpapers or the performance of the unit.
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On MY Tab, Adw EX outperforms the stock launcher by leaps and bounds. I don't know what they did programatically, but it consistently moves smoother, faster than the stock launcher.
Live wallpapers are still problematic, but I do feel the presentation of icons/widgets is better. Not all launchers are created equal... including the default one.
I've just received the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and I already own a Galaxy S2 phone. I was very disappointed with the stutter and lag in the GT 10.1 compared to the GS2. In fact I was sort of amazed because I hadn't seen any reference to the poor video and livewallpaper performance when looking at reviews of the tab.
I've tried resetting to factory defaults after installing the latest firmware update from Samsung and I simply can't use a livewallpaper - the slowdown in performance of the tablet is quite noticable.
I've got videos on my GS2 that play fine but on the Galaxy Tab, they just stutter (and I'm not using a livewallpaper). I've tried all sorts of video player apps as well.
I wished I'd known that the Tegra 2 would not be capable of the sorts of things my GS2 is. It's just weird that I hadn't seen any reference to this before.
As suggested, try using a different launcher. While it doesn't change the hardware, most users find that the stock launcher is inherently laggy. ADW for example also has user adjustable tweaks which can improve perceived speed.
As for live wallpapers, some are worse than others of course. Experiment a bit. Also check widgets you may have on screen which could be causing slow downs. Things like circle launcher and updating social apps are known to cause slowness.
I am running Bonsai ROM with various tweaks, overclocked at 1.4gHz and can run live wallpapers smoothly with no problems.
Edit: You should also be able to run video smoothly. Using stock player or Rockplayer, etc. I regularly watch movies and videos, as well as Netflix with no issues. Of course video type, size, etc will make a difference, but even non-optimized movies seem smooth for me.
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
1) Benchmarks are utterly pointless/meaningless. They do not even remotely simulate real world use.
2) How do you make an honest/objective/realistic comparison between two phones with completely different hardware ? Answer: You can't. Any comparison made will be purely subjective/opinion only.
peterdan1506 said:
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
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Ive yet to play a game on the sgs2 that doesnt run super smooth....
Riptide gp, dead space etc
Should developers start making more advanced games to maximize GPU potential, the iphone4s will reach its bottleneck for its 800mhz cpu anyway.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Hi all Ive seen a few people mention game boosting apps and have found a number of paid and free options but am wondering what people here are using (if any) ?
Many thanks
Matt
flipside101 said:
Hi all Ive seen a few people mention game boosting apps and have found a number of paid and free options but am wondering what people here are using (if any) ?
Many thanks
Matt
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Hi there,
I (probablu) ran into the same problem as you did: whilst playing demanding games (like GTA 3/Vicy City) the device stutters and is having difficulty producing a smooth framerate. On an HTC Sense rom whilst playing GTA:VC I had like 13 FPS @ low settings (18% draw distance, 70% screen resolution, medium GFX settings and dynamic shadows OFF) and it was just awful. Then I decided to put CM10 on my device. In the settings menu there is an option called 'Performance' and you can change the profile there. The default profile is 'ondemand' but I changed it to 'performance' to let the quad-cores work at full capacity. Now, all of a sudden, I can run GTA:VC on the highest settings possible at a steady 30+ FPS.
If tl;dr: don't bother with 'game boosters', they will just terminate proccesses running in the background. Instead flash your device with a nice ROM: CM10. It has A) better battery life because there are no unnecessary processes running in the background and B) overall better performance due to the fact there is no SENSE interfering.
Just my two cents.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1783260
Actually this app is no joke and was made specifically for the one x, with this app you will achieve greater performance than with cm10 or forcing the performance governor which will just overheat your phone, the tegra 3 processor couples the gpu to the cpu, for example when the game uses only two cpus the gpu is limited to half speed which is why gameloft games lag, gaming boost decouples the gpu, optimizes the cpu governor and sets the minfrees to aggressive so that the game receives enough ram to maintain a stable framerate.
ryanjsoo said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1783260
Actually this app is no joke and was made specifically for the one x, with this app you will achieve greater performance than with cm10 or forcing the performance governor which will just overheat your phone, the tegra 3 processor couples the gpu to the cpu, for example when the game uses only two cpus the gpu is limited to half speed which is why gameloft games lag, gaming boost decouples the gpu, optimizes the cpu governor and sets the minfrees to aggressive so that the game receives enough ram to maintain a stable framerate.
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But is it suitable for our HOX+ ? since the HOX+ is based on another version of the Tegra 3 will it still work stabily ???
djsynth said:
But is it suitable for our HOX+ ? since the HOX+ is based on another version of the Tegra 3 will it still work stabily ???
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The HOX+ is not based on another version of tegra. It's just a newer revision of the same chip in the HOX.
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
Last summer, I decided to buy a Nexus 7 for using it mainly as an ebook reader. It's perfect for that with its very sharp 1280x800 screen. It was my first Android device and I love this little tablet.
I'm a fan of retro gaming and I installed emulators on every device I have: Pocket PC, Xbox, PSP Go, iPhone, iPad3, PS3. So I discovered that the Android platform was one of the most active community for emulation fans like me and I bought many of them, and all those made by Robert Broglia (.EMU series). They were running great on the N7 but I found that 16GB was too small, as was the screen.
I waited and waited until the 32 GB Nexus 10 became available here in Canada and bought it soon after (10 days ago). With its A15 cores, I was expecting the N10 to be a great device for emulation but I am now a little disapointed. When buying the N10, I expected everything to run faster than on the N7 by a noticeable margin.
Many emulators run slower on the N10 than on the N7. MAME4Ddroid and MAME4Droid reloaded are no longer completely smooth with more demanding ROMs, Omega 500, Colleen, UAE4droid and SToid are slower and some others needed much more tweaking than on the N7. I'm a little extreme on accuracy of emulation and I like everything to be as close to the real thing as possible. A solid 60 fps for me is a must (or 50 fps for PAL machines).
On the other side, there are other emus that ran very well: the .EMU series and RetroArch for example. These emulators are much more polished than the average quick port and they run without a flaw. They're great on the 10-inch screen and I enjoy them very much. The CPU intensive emulators (Mupen64Plus AE and FPSE) gained some speed but less that I anticipated.
So is this because of the monster Nexus 10's 2560x1600 resolution? Or is it because of limited memory bandwith? Maybe some emulators are not tweaked for the N10 yet. I wish some emulators had the option to set a lower resolution for rendering and then upscale the output. I think that many Android apps just try to push the frames to the native resolution without checking first if there is a faster way.
The N7 has a lower clocked 4 core CPU but has only 1/4 the resolution. I think that it's a more balanced device that the N10 which may have a faster dual core CPU but too much pixels to push. It's much like the iPad3 who was twice as fast as the iPad2 but had a 4x increase in resolution.
I am now considering going for a custom ROM on the N10 but I wonder if I will see an increase in emulation speed. Maybe those of you who did the jump can tell me. I'm thinking about AOKP maybe.
Any suggestion on that would be appreciated, thanks!
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
EniGmA1987 said:
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
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Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Having to render to that size of screen [2560x1600] will slow the game down. It’s called being ‘fill rate bound’. Even for a good processor it's a lot of work as the game uses quite a lot of overdraw.
The solution is to draw everything to a smaller screen (say half at 1280x800) and then stretch the final image to fill the screen.
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A sad true my nexus 10 get dam hot and i have to play games at 1.4 or 1.2 that sux
Sent from my XT925 using xda app-developers app
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
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But fillrate isnt memory bandwidth. We need both more MHz and more raster operations to get higher fill rate of pixels per second. We can overclock the GPU to get the MHz, and that will help, but we have to find a way to solve the higher heat output too from that. More ROP's are impossible as it is a hardware design for how many we have. If we ever get to overclock up to around 750 MHz then we should see a 30-40% improvement in fill rate. At that point we may have memory bandwidth problems, but we wont know for sure until we get there. But the 12.8GB/s of bandwidth that we currently have is enough to support 2560x1600 resolution at our current GPU power. Our Nexus 10 also has the highest fillrate of any Android phone or tablet to date, about 1.4 Mtexel/s. And if we have memory bandwidth limitations, then we would see no improvement at all from the current overclock we do have up to 612-620MHz because the speed wouldnt be where the bottleneck is. Yet we can clearly see in benchmarks and real gaming that we get FPS increases with higher MHz, thus our current problem is the fillrate and not the memory bandwidth.
Also, the solution is not to render the game at half the resolution as that is a band-aid on the real problem. If the developer of a game would code the game properly we wouldnt have this problem, or if they dont feel like doing that then they should at least stop trying to put more into the game than their un-optimized, lazy project is capable of running nicely.
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With that logic you could buy any video card for a PC and it would run any game at the resolution the video card supports. That isn't the case because rendering involves more than just memory fill rate. There are textures, polygons, multiple rendering passes, filtering, it goes on and on. As EniGmA1987 mentioned nothing has been optimized to take advantage of this hardware yet, developers were literally crossing their fingers hoping their games would run 'as is'. thankfully the A15 cpu cores in the exynos will be used in the tegra 4 as well so we can look forward to the CPU optimizations soon which will definitely help.
Emulators are more cpu intensive than anything else, give it a little time and you won't have any problems with your old school games. Run the new 3DMark bench to see what this tablet can do, it runs native resolution and its not even fully optimized for this architecture yet.
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
Lodovik said:
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth
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Just curious but what is that calculation supposed to be? total bandwidth needed? Cause I don't see your bit depth in there, unless the 4 is supposed to be that? If that is true than you are calculating on 4-bit color depth?
And then the result would just be bandwidth required for pixel data to memory wouldnt it? It wouldnt include texture data in and out of memory and other special functions like post processing.
2560*1600 = number of pixels on the screen
4 = bytes / pixels for 32-bits depth
60 = frames / second
/1024/1024 = divide twice to get the result in MB
Actually, I made a typo the result is 937,5 MB/s or 0.92 GB/s. This is just a rough estimate to get an idea of what is needed at this resolution just to push the all pixels on the screen in flat 2D at 60 fps, assuming that emulators don't use accelerated functions.
My point was that with 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwith, we should have more than enough even if this estimate isn't very accurate.
Thanks for the explanation
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
Thanks for the info. There's so many configuration options available for the Nexus 10. I really enjoy having all those possibilities.
EniGmA1987 said:
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
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=Lodovik;40030*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
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You are taking what I said out of context. I was responding to someone else, thus the "quote" above my post.
Since you posted I loaded up some Super Nintendo, N64, and PlayStation games on my n10 without any issues. It may just be your setup. There are a lot of tweaks out there that could easily increase performance. One great and very simple one is enabling 2D GPU rendering which is in developer options. Just do some searching. GPU Overclocking won't help much, as you said above your games are only 2D. I am sure you can get them running just fine.