I'm sure there are a million threads like this, and if there are i am sorry. But how is CyanogenMod 7 for us on the Vibrant? Because i really want to use this rom, because it is gingerbread, but how STABLE is it and how is battery life?
I dont use GPS nor do i use data so i have no problem going without them. If y'all could let me know what you think of it that would be fantastic.
P.S. I'm using Bionix NextGen and its somewhat decent, i just want an upgrade.
I'm using CM7 with Bo data (data works, but I don't have the data plan), and have no need for GPS.
Battery life is ok, I can make around 20hours on a charge. Haven't noticed anything too bad yet.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I gave up on it, as while most of the major functionality was fine, I got random FC's with some fully stable apps, and I couldn't handle the rainbow screen issues.
From what I've read, it looks like with some tweeking and the proper kernal some users have gotten it very stable. My suggestion, is do some reading, particularly the OP's on the CM7 and Kernal threads.
i can speak to this, have been running the newest and second to newest updates of CM7. very stable and usable -gps would be nice, but it is stable and reliable.
battery life could be better, i am used to having 20-30 hours with 2.2 roms, but i get right 16-18 hours with moderate use.
you can also try simply galaxy
Just switched back from CM7 to trigger3.2. Battery life was horrible.(tried switching kernels)
I'm a bit discouraged by the whole EFS Backup/restore business. Is this ever likely to not be an issue?
Related
Just a thread to see what the majority of people are choosing to run right now and which you have tested as well. This is NOT intended to be any type of a bashing thread, just please stick to what you've tested and what you've chosen to currently use.
As for myself, I'm running UnNamed from gtg and have been for a bit now. I've removed a few additional pieces of software that I didn't want and modified the battery icon but other than that, it's pretty much as is.
I've tested and have a backup of CM 7 and I'm planning to test Cognition next...
I am running UnNamed, I had a circle battery mod, but flashed the full update and have stuck with it as-is. I ran Cognition with no issues or complaints, but wanted the extended power menu.
Sent from my SGS II
I'm running Cognition as of yesterday. For a few days before that I was running a stock + root ROM.
I must say, my battery lasts sooooooo much longer since installing Cognition compared to Stock. I just now hit 90% and it's been off the charger (getting regular use: some idle, some web browsing, some pp installs) for about 6 hours now.
I love it.
Kadin said:
Just a thread to see what the majority of people are choosing to run right now and which you have tested as well. This is NOT intended to be any type of a bashing thread, just please stick to what you've tested and what you've chosen to currently use.
As for myself, I'm running UnNamed from gtg and have been for a bit now. I've removed a few additional pieces of software that I didn't want and modified the battery icon but other than that, it's pretty much as is.
I've tested and have a backup of CM 7 and I'm planning to test Cognition next...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on Cognition and haven't tried others, yet. It works and as ROMs have appeared, I've pulled what I wanted from them. I get great battery life (3 hours of display time, but lately it's been increasing - yesterday I got 4 and today I'm on pace for over 5 hours of display ). I'm really interested in CM7. I hadn't tried it yet because I'm not convinced that it's bug free (which is important for me). What did you think of it?
I'm getting such poor battery life still, even after rooting and removing data hogs (AP Mobile, etc.), running BBS and CPUSpy to monitor, and turning off unnecessary sync. I'm thinking about moving to Cognition, but I kinda like Touchwiz's interface and the safety of running stock.
Simba501 said:
I'm on Cognition and haven't tried others, yet. It works and as ROMs have appeared, I've pulled what I wanted from them. I get great battery life (3 hours of display time, but lately it's been increasing - yesterday I got 4 and today I'm on pace for over 5 hours of display ). I'm really interested in CM7. I hadn't tried it yet because I'm not convinced that it's bug free (which is important for me). What did you think of it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I liked CM7. I probably didn't give it enough time to make an accurate assessment of it as I liked the idea of trying UnNamed simply because I like the stock build as it is... minus the garbage bloatware and wanted the extended power menu. I'd highly recommend giving CM7 a shot though. I simply get each rom running and then do a full nandroid backup in case I want to go back in the future - barring any major improvements of course in which case I'll start out fresh.
Dranakin said:
I'm getting such poor battery life still, even after rooting and removing data hogs (AP Mobile, etc.), running BBS and CPUSpy to monitor, and turning off unnecessary sync. I'm thinking about moving to Cognition, but I kinda like Touchwiz's interface and the safety of running stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say that I was never much of a believer in Juice Defender but between running that program and doing a battery calibration with the app, BatteryCalibration, my battery life has increased quite a bit. I've still got Gmail auto syncing but I have turned off 'Back up my data' in Privacy and keep GPS off until I need it. Everything else is running as is. Oh and no Facebook or Words with Friends. I login to Facebook via Dolphin HD when I have to check it on the go.
Running UnNamed 1.0.3 and really like it. Clean, snappy and excellent battery life (yes, better than stock rom).
verncat05 said:
Running UnNamed 1.0.3 and really like it. Clean, snappy and excellent battery life (yes, better than stock rom).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 for UnNamed.... love that rom!
Ive been on cog beta 4 for a while and it is perfect. Picked up DD exp kernal a few days ago and its still perfect. Perfect combo i guess. Battery life is amazing. After 15 hour days i am always getting 4 hours of screen on time along with playing music thoughout the day and few calls and messages data and sync always on.
I have yet to have any problems and gonna make this my offical "go back to, stable rom" when others start to drive me nuts. I would like to just stay on this rom and call it good cause its perfect but that never happens.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
UnNamed 1.0.3 for the past two days. Had no issues and I like the added features. This is the only custom ROM I tried so far.
roadrash7 said:
Ive been on cog beta 4 for a while and it is perfect. Picked up DD exp kernal a few days ago and its still perfect. Perfect combo i guess. Battery life is amazing. After 15 hour days i am always getting 4 hours of screen on time along with playing music thoughout the day and few calls and messages data and sync always on.
I have yet to have any problems and gonna make this my offical "go back to, stable rom" when others start to drive me nuts. I would like to just stay on this rom and call it good cause its perfect but that never happens.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.... That sounds impressive. I may need to give that rom a whir then.
I'm making the move to Gingerbread, but I can't decide between CM7 and OMFGB.
Looking for some pros and cons, opinions, battery life, kernel suggestions, etc
Thanks!
In my opinion , and i've ran both, I like CM7.
I like the constant updates in CM7, and that it just works well.
I've had issues with battery drain, random reboots, etc etc with OMFGB
But try them out, it's not hard to flash between them two without wiping all your data. They're both CM7 basically
eminembdg said:
In my opinion , and i've ran both, I like CM7.
I like the constant updates in CM7, and that it just works well.
I've had issues with battery drain, random reboots, etc etc with OMFGB
But try them out, it's not hard to flash between them two without wiping all your data. They're both CM7 basically
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'm leaning heavily toward CM7... I think I'll wait for the next nightly - 10/20 - since it looks to have a LOT of updates.
I've fiddled with CM7 and MIUI quite a bit. CM7 has lockscreen gestures. MIUI has themes. I prefer MIUI. Both are stable and have decent battery life and GPS works fine with a workaround or two.
Both Cm7 and MiUi required that I reboot the phone everytime I wanted to use the GPS.
Also I would make sure you can dial 911 as some claim you can't.
That hasn't been my experience with the current GPS fixes. I leave my GPS turned on (since it burns no noticeable juice when it's not active) and run AngryGPS a few minutes before I need the navigation system so it has time to get a proper lock. Works like a charm. Never had to restart to get it to work.
Thanks for the info and opinions
So i have a verizon fascinate and am currently running cm7. (first tried the stable release but niw a nightly). Im eeally liking cm, but since i got it my battery life is garbage. Basically the drain seems to come from either the android os sercice or cell standby. Whenever i leave my phone inactive for a while, when i wake it up the battery has dropped a lot and tge phone is very warm. I have been modding this phone for a while, but im no android programmer. Purely based on the forum searchi. G ive done on the issue, it seemsblike cm7 has an issue with my modem or radio.
Extra info: my 3g/2g signals seem fine (always 0% time without signal). Wifi connectivity seems fine. Im also running glitch's kernal altho the problem has persisted with and without it (i did do a kernel cleaning first). I used the "go from anything to jb vanilla" guide cuz i was having issues switching to mtd at first (sry dont have a link rite now but it was on xda) . I get occassional force closes, but not really a problem. When i did a titanium back up, the very first time i flashed cm7 i Did restore system settings, but i did not do that every time since then. Ive done a fresh flash of the stable mod around 3 times trying different stuff, but this one is niggtly as i said, and each has had this issue.
If looked around a lot, and wgile this seems common, no one has posted a consistent solution or explanation to the problem, so thats what im looking for.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Hellomello13 said:
So i have a verizon fascinate and am currently running cm7. (first tried the stable release but niw a nightly). Im eeally liking cm, but since i got it my battery life is garbage. Basically the drain seems to come from either the android os sercice or cell standby. Whenever i leave my phone inactive for a while, when i wake it up the battery has dropped a lot and tge phone is very warm. I have been modding this phone for a while, but im no android programmer. Purely based on the forum searchi. G ive done on the issue, it seemsblike cm7 has an issue with my modem or radio.
Extra info: my 3g/2g signals seem fine (always 0% time without signal). Wifi connectivity seems fine. Im also running glitch's kernal altho the problem has persisted with and without it (i did do a kernel cleaning first). I used the "go from anything to jb vanilla" guide cuz i was having issues switching to mtd at first (sry dont have a link rite now but it was on xda) . I get occassional force closes, but not really a problem. When i did a titanium back up, the very first time i flashed cm7 i Did restore system settings, but i did not do that every time since then. Ive done a fresh flash of the stable mod around 3 times trying different stuff, but this one is niggtly as i said, and each has had this issue.
If looked around a lot, and wgile this seems common, no one has posted a consistent solution or explanation to the problem, so thats what im looking for.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could flash jt's vanilla gb rom. That has good battery life.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Plus do you have an overclock?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I have had the standby battery drain on every CM7 version and Kernel tried so far including 7.1 stable,7.0 nightlies,JT's Vanilla,and PoolParty. It's even worse if I shut phone down and don't plug in. It will drop 50 to 75% overnight with phone not on?
Has done it with undervolting,overclocking,and voltage control not even installed. This is first time I have seen others having similiar issues.
I think this is a known issue for all MTD roms on the fascinate, if I'm not mistaken.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
TheBDub said:
I think this is a known issue for all MTD roms on the fascinate, if I'm not mistaken.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lose only 5% to 10% overnight on CM7 never really notice how much on MIUI cause I never ran it long enough. I guess every phone would behave differently for MTD's or maybe you have an app or mulitple ones that refreshes frequently(Fancy Widget comes to mind).
Well that really sucks, because i do enjoy cm7. But this also means if i go back to a touchwiz configuration like stock dl09 i shouldnt have these issues right?
But before that, has anyone who had these issues tried anything (ie kernels or maybe standby mode power conservation setting, etc... ) that have at least noticeably improved your battery life? Right now mines pretty unbearable (im talking 8hrs while on but totally inactive), but if i can get it up a little i might b able to manage.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I am also experiencing poor battery life. I just flashed 7.1.0 yesterday and absolutely love it. Was using com rom for a few months, but a friend said to try out cwm 7. I used to get about 6 - 8 hours of Pandora while at work and today I only got about 4 before my phone shut off. I'm going to try completely killing battery and charge with phone off tonight an see if it's any better tomorrow.
Any other suggestions? I'm not a noob when it comes to custom roms and flashing (I used to flash the **** out of my G1) but there may have been something I over looked when switching to cwm7. I wiped everything a few times before flashing including battery stats and dalvic.
My battery life is actually really good. Running latest nighty, undervolted -75 across the board,stock kernel, and no overclocking.
Just can't figure why I lose 50-75% of battery overnight when phone is shut down and not charging?
I have the same issue with CM7.1, turning phone of at 80% battery at night to find it at 25% at morning
Is there knows solution?
Hello there folks!
Sorry if this question's been asked before, but it seems that with the recent (quite amazing!) accomplishment of CM7 on the X2, the information on compatibility with certain scripts/apps/etc. is a little scattered.
That being said, I was hoping if anyone knew if the Speedy scripts would work on this ROM.
Thanks for the info!
Why do you even need it? Its amazing without it already
Sent from my MB870 using XDA App
I installed it a couple days ago and things seem to be just fine. I didn't install it for performance gains though. When I was on liberty I had it installed and it made a huge difference with battery life. That's something that (although it's not terrible) I haven't been real happy with on cm7. At least. Not compared to what I had on liberty. So, I figured it can't hurt to try it (can always restore a nandroid) . So far, it seems to have made quite a difference for me when it comes to battery life. Don't know if it messes up something else or not. If so, I haven't noticed it.
My battery life is different every day with CM7... with ~same usage. Some days the battery will take FOREVER to drain and others it goes by too fast. Turn Data off while idling
Seems that every ROM I look at in here has a bunch of issues. I'm coming over from the OG Evo, and know nothing about photon's development- although I get the gist its an underappreciated device. Just looking for something to make it worth rooting the photon, which is a great phone imo.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
have you tried CM9? sure theres a few bugs but its my daily. otherwise i hear that miui is turning out pretty good but i havnt flashed it myself for a few builds. you could always try cm7 or rokko also.
CM7 and CM9 are the best. Use both of them, CM7 is more stable and all works, but CM9 is very smooths and awesome!
dsuffern said:
Seems that every ROM I look at in here has a bunch of issues. I'm coming over from the OG Evo, and know nothing about photon's development- although I get the gist its an underappreciated device. Just looking for something to make it worth rooting the photon, which is a great phone imo.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As quick as it is to root the Photon I would do it just for the ability to use root apps. Then, try some of the custom locked roms available before you unlock. CM9 is a great rom but still a beta and has issues such as camera, signal, battery, etc. which is to be expected.
I still prefer the stock rom just because of full functionality, battery life, and signal quality but there are many good custom roms based off stock builds (which I have not tried) that might work well for you.
Running CM7 here and am happy with that as my daily driver. Not brave enough to try CM9 but that's just my personal preference/bias. Joker's non CM9 roms & Lokifish Marz's roms are also good choices.
Three great roms:
-CM7 (KANG)
-ROCKO 3.0 (NOT 3.5)
-Imperium Initiative 1.04
As for which is better... It's a tossup. CM7 last longer, but ROCKO feels more fluid and user friendly. CM7 is more technical...
CM9 is very impressive but it is a beta.
coolqf said:
Three great roms:
-CM7 (KANG)
-ROCKO 3.0 (NOT 3.5)
-Imperium Initiative 1.04
As for which is better... It's a tossup. CM7 last longer, but ROCKO feels more fluid and user friendly. CM7 is more technical...
CM9 is very impressive but it is a beta.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Imperium is not a beginners ROM by any stretch.
Lokifish Marz said:
Imperium is not a beginners ROM by any stretch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not designed by a beginner but perfectly usable by a beginner =D
coolqf said:
Not designed by a beginner but perfectly usable by a beginner =D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
I finally took the dive into unlocking my Photon's bootloader, (having never done it before on a phone) and I had almost zero issues rooting/unlocking/flashing the ROM.
CCallahan said:
As quick as it is to root the Photon I would do it just for the ability to use root apps. Then, try some of the custom locked roms available before you unlock. CM9 is a great rom but still a beta and has issues such as camera, signal, battery, etc. which is to be expected.
I still prefer the stock rom just because of full functionality, battery life, and signal quality but there are many good custom roms based off stock builds (which I have not tried) that might work well for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to quickly point out that Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9 beta is honestly pretty stable. The camera, MMS, signal, and battery life is very much exceeding my expectations, considering this is a rom that is labelled as a beta.
I'd also like to state my opinions towards the OP's original question: In order of stability, here is what I would recommend.
1-Stock. (obviously).
2-HomeBase
3-CyanogenMod 7.2
4-RockoRom 3.0 (3.5 is good as well, but based on experience I recommend 3.0)
5-Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9, link is in the beginning of my post.
6-Imperium Initiative
Finally, 7-[email protected]/[email protected]
The rom I use the most is Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9. It's a very good rom.
Quickly-- One last thing. If you DO flash a rom, please please please PLEASE do not complain about the battery life until you do these steps:
~Let your battery drain to 0%
~Charge your battery to 100%
~Wipe battery stats via the advanced menu in a custom recovery(recommended), or an application
~Drain battery to 0%, then charge to 100%.
Then you can complain about the battery life... if it's bad, that is. Lol.
MoPho on, my friend!
Zwomg Im Bad said:
I'd like to quickly point out that Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9 beta is honestly pretty stable. The camera, MMS, signal, and battery life is very much exceeding my expectations, considering this is a rom that is labelled as a beta.
I'd also like to state my opinions towards the OP's original question: In order of stability, here is what I would recommend.
1-Stock. (obviously).
2-HomeBase
3-CyanogenMod 7.2
4-RockoRom 3.0 (3.5 is good as well, but based on experience I recommend 3.0)
5-Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9, link is in the beginning of my post.
6-Imperium Initiative
Finally, 7-[email protected]/[email protected]
The rom I use the most is Jokersax's CyanogenMod 9. It's a very good rom.
Quickly-- One last thing. If you DO flash a rom, please please please PLEASE do not complain about the battery life until you do these steps:
~Let your battery drain to 0%
~Charge your battery to 100%
~Wipe battery stats via the advanced menu in a custom recovery(recommended), or an application
~Drain battery to 0%, then charge to 100%.
Then you can complain about the battery life... if it's bad, that is. Lol.
MoPho on, my friend!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was comparing CM9 to stock and there is no way CM9 has better battery than stock. Not even close. In my experience with running CM roms on multiple devices they all seem to drain the battery more I would assume due to the kernels used. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with stability but relates to the overall feel of the OP question I think which is why I mentioned it.
With that said roms are going to run different for each user especially with a beta build.
CCallahan said:
I was comparing CM9 to stock and there is no way CM9 has better battery than stock. Not even close. In my experience with running CM roms on multiple devices they all seem to drain the battery more I would assume due to the kernels used. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with stability but relates to the overall feel of the OP question I think which is why I mentioned it.
With that said roms are going to run different for each user especially with a beta build.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite remember saying that the battery life was better than stock... But surely sir, you must be doing something wrong. I have 2 photons running cm9, one is activated and one is not, the one that is activated has the minimum at 216 mhz and the max at 1300 mhz, and it's usual cpu is going at 800mhz-ish. the one that is not activated is clocked to the max at 1300mhz constantly, min is 1300 and max is obviously 1300. they both run roughly the same amount of time before dying, usually 7/8hrs. with stock, not rooted, my batter lasts anywhere from 8-9hrs being heavily used.
I never said that the battery life was better than stock on cm9, i said it was EXCEEDING MY EXPECTATIONS FOR A BETA. Sir, you honestly should double check the post of which you're criticizing before you make such an accusation.
And of course roms are going to be different for everybody, depending on how they use it and what they do with it. I've only tweaked jokersax's build to fix the mms issue, as his fix doesn't help. my fix helps ME, but considering the fact that jokersax's fix works for plenty of others, that obviously points out the fact that roms run differently for everybody.
One last thing; who's cm9 build are you talking about? because you mentioned bugs, and jokersax's barely has any. the battery life issue has a solution that can be found at the end of my first post. please, read it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=24827129
1080p camera ROM - Need dl link
Sent from my Photon using xda premium
I will say it.... jokers cm9 roms battery life kick the crap out of stock. It does have some pretty annoying bugs tho.... like everytime you rotate the screen while using the browser it force closes, or the camera that doesn't take great pictures...mainly with the flash. But other than that it does work pretty well.
I did just switch to cm7 and while everything on it seems to work great, the battery life is no where near as good as cm9.
Btw both I have Max CPU at 1000.
Sent from my Motorola Photon using Tapatalk
DualSportDad said:
I will say it.... jokers cm9 roms battery life kick the crap out of stock. It does have some pretty annoying bugs tho.... like everytime you rotate the screen while using the browser it force closes, or the camera that doesn't take great pictures...mainly with the flash. But other than that it does work pretty well.
I did just switch to cm7 and while everything on it seems to work great, the battery life is no where near as good as cm9.
Btw both I have Max CPU at 1000.
Sent from my Motorola Photon using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? For me, the camera's damnnear perfect. huh. But yeah, the rotation isn't great, but I never use rotation. It pisses me off, lol. The only thing atm that makes me mad is that google play won't let me download anything because I'm not on an official android rom. Anyone else have this problem?
Zwomg Im Bad said:
Really? For me, the camera's damnnear perfect. huh. But yeah, the rotation isn't great, but I never use rotation. It pisses me off, lol. The only thing atm that makes me mad is that google play won't let me download anything because I'm not on an official android rom. Anyone else have this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to settings, apps, stop Google play, clear its data, restart phone.
Acvice said:
Go to settings, apps, stop Google play, clear its data, restart phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh, tried that lmao. And i tried clearing market updater, tried downloading older version, i tried alot of things i just gave up haha.
But I'll post about this on a different thread, we gotta stay on topic. Thanks for trying to help me!
I flashed back last night and tried taking pictures with dark light.... I found if I use the button on the screen instead of the button on the side of the phone it takes much better pictures. All in all I can't wait till this Rome gets the bugs worked out.... but to be on topic it is a pretty good daily rom.
Sent from my CM9'd Motorola Photon using Tapatalk
oDepani andSportDad;24897902]I flashed back last night and tried taking pictures with dark light.... I found if I use the button on the screen instead of the button on the side of the phone it takes much better pictures. All in all I can't wait till this Rome gets the bugs worked out.... but to be on topic it is a pretty good daily rom.
Sent from my CM9'd Motorola Photon using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
True. Very true. I've found that the vibrate goes on/ off though. Doesn't bother me, but it ciuld bother others
Zwomg Im Bad said:
I don't quite remember saying that the battery life was better than stock... But surely sir, you must be doing something wrong. I have 2 photons running cm9, one is activated and one is not, the one that is activated has the minimum at 216 mhz and the max at 1300 mhz, and it's usual cpu is going at 800mhz-ish. the one that is not activated is clocked to the max at 1300mhz constantly, min is 1300 and max is obviously 1300. they both run roughly the same amount of time before dying, usually 7/8hrs. with stock, not rooted, my batter lasts anywhere from 8-9hrs being heavily used.
I never said that the battery life was better than stock on cm9, i said it was EXCEEDING MY EXPECTATIONS FOR A BETA. Sir, you honestly should double check the post of which you're criticizing before you make such an accusation.
And of course roms are going to be different for everybody, depending on how they use it and what they do with it. I've only tweaked jokersax's build to fix the mms issue, as his fix doesn't help. my fix helps ME, but considering the fact that jokersax's fix works for plenty of others, that obviously points out the fact that roms run differently for everybody.
One last thing; who's cm9 build are you talking about? because you mentioned bugs, and jokersax's barely has any. the battery life issue has a solution that can be found at the end of my first post. please, read it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will only comment on a few items because we could go about this all day with really no positive outcome and the thread will be hijacked.
First, I am not doing anything wrong. This is not my first rodeo. Yes, I know about the battery "conditioning" steps at the end of your post. This is part of flashing 101. With what I am running on my phone it just wasn't the life I needed it to be.
With that said I agree with you on CM9 exceeding expectations. Great rom but OP was looking for a stable rom and beta versions have bugs.
We can agree to disagree and put it to rest?