Just noticed that Trident has their Aegis series case available now for the Evo 3D:
http://www.tridentcase.com/product_74_127.html
From the pics it looks good, might have to order one.
Came in here thinking of Trident Gum.
Looks like a solid case.
I am looking to get a new case, I got the Otterbox Defender case right now.....it's too bulky.....but I also want good protection....this case looks really good, might have to check it out
I will only buy Trident cases. Had the cyclops on my EVO for a while, then they came out with the Electra (extended battery) case and I got that one. And loved both of them. I will now order this case! Thanks for the heads up!
ACM_EVO said:
Came in here thinking of Trident Gum.
Looks like a solid case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chew on this, there's no better case than Trident. I prefer Ballistic, which is different, but not better.
Nnot for me. Not liking how it covers the top front. Thanks for the heads up though. I'm still leaning towards the tough case from case mate.
Sent from my EVO 3D
Kraken case
I Emailed trident last week, who said that they hope to have the Kraken available next month, I like the look of the Aegis but its just not quite Hardcore enough for my needs!
I hope they come through soon, just got my 3vo yesterday and i wana start using it for daily life!!
Kraken next month? Cool, thanks for the update osrix!
_Epic said:
I will only buy Trident cases. Had the cyclops on my EVO for a while, then they came out with the Electra (extended battery) case and I got that one. And loved both of them. I will now order this case! Thanks for the heads up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been wanting the electra case for the 3D also. How was the battery on the evo one?
b.t.w. Trident told me mid October for the electra case, but it is in development.
May give this a try, but absolutely loving the case-mate tough right now. Been trying cases left and right (otterbox commuter and impact, various tpu and hybrid tpu cases), so far the case-mate tough has been awesome though.
osrix said:
I Emailed trident last week, who said that they hope to have the Kraken available next month, I like the look of the Aegis but its just not quite Hardcore enough for my needs!
I hope they come through soon, just got my 3vo yesterday and i wana start using it for daily life!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you all for your interest!!
Both Kraken and Cyclops are on the way. Cyclops will be likely to be early September and Kraken soon after that.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work."
Senior Product Designer @ www.tridentcase.com
http://ejsouffle.blogspot.com
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
http://gplus.to/ejsu
Sent from HTC Flyer
E.J.Su said:
Thank you all for your interest!!
Both Kraken and Cyclops are on the way. Cyclops will be likely to be early September and Kraken soon after that.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work."
Senior Product Designer @ www.tridentcase.com
http://ejsouffle.blogspot.com
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
http://gplus.to/ejsu
Sent from HTC Flyer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since your here,
What is the difference between the two? Mostly I need protection from dust, rather than dropage! which would be the best case for that?
I prefer the look of the Kraken but if the Cyclops is out first its worth considering...
Any chance Trident may release the Electra for this phone too? it would be fully awesome to have a dust proof case with extended battery, without having to mod it myself!! (check out my sig)
Cheers
I can't really say much about EVO3D version of Kraken, because we are doing something special for it. The Cyclops for this device is actually more of an equivalent to the rest of the Kraken series. I'd say Cyclops would protect dust pretty well.
As for Electra for EVO3D, that's definitely on our agenda.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work."
Senior Product Designer @ www.tridentcase.com
http://ejsouffle.blogspot.com
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
http://gplus.to/ejsu
Sent from HTC Flyer
E.J.Su said:
I can't really say much about EVO3D version of Kraken, because we are doing something special for it. The Cyclops for this device is actually more of an equivalent to the rest of the Kraken series. I'd say Cyclops would protect dust pretty well.
As for Electra for EVO3D, that's definitely on our agenda.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work."
Senior Product Designer @ www.tridentcase.com
http://ejsouffle.blogspot.com
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
http://gplus.to/ejsu
Sent from HTC Flyer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, sounds great! Now get back to work and get them released!!
Trident Senior,
Does the recently released cyclops series 2 case for the evo 3d have a built in screen protector or does it come with one that you apply?
Thanks
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...eb_n6DSSQ&sig2=DD6GE-EerkI37gk2fyEPtQ&cad=rja
in this Kraken video it looks like Trident have done away with the buit in screen protector for their flagship model for this device, I am thinking it must be same same for the Cyclops II.
....Shame IMO...Good Vid though,
I'm trying to work out if I can Mod the case to fit an Extended battery
How is the development coming on the Electra case? Will it be more like the new Kraken or the Cyclops?
E.J.Su said:
Thank you all for your interest!!
Both Kraken and Cyclops are on the way. Cyclops will be likely to be early September and Kraken soon after that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Want to send me one for a lengthy, professional review?
TheHonkey said:
Trident Senior,
Does the recently released cyclops series 2 case for the evo 3d have a built in screen protector or does it come with one that you apply?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They both come with stick-on screen protector.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work"
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
Product Development @ tridentcase.com
cmatherly said:
How is the development coming on the Electra case? Will it be more like the new Kraken or the Cyclops?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be on the Kraken.
-E.J.Su
"Talent is worthless without hard work"
http://ej-su.deviantart.com
Product Development @ tridentcase.com
Related
Trident confirmed in August there will be a kraken case along with a aegis case for the EVO 3d no holsters tho. They will make some along with my skins. Holster for the kraken from the og EVO might work for the EVO 3d kraken case
Email Trident and tell them to RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!!
Sorry.
kcodya said:
Email Trident and tell them to RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!!
Sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha ha they confirmed it for August .
can someone post a quick comparison of this versus the ballistic HC? I am new to these tough cases and wanna pick one that will be the best overall for EVERYTHING
I don't have an official review. But, I've found the Ballistic to be the best for absorbing shocks, drops, falls, etc. That is assuming that you use the optional outer layer of the Ballistic.
The Kraken I is splash proof which gives it that little edge. The Kraken II which I believe is what they will be initially making for the Evo 3D is tough, but I do not believe it is splash proof, but I am not sure, I will email them regarding this.
\
firemedic1343 said:
I don't have an official review. But, I've found the Ballistic to be the best for absorbing shocks, drops, falls, etc. That is assuming that you use the optional outer layer of the Ballistic.
The Kraken I is splash proof which gives it that little edge. The Kraken II which I believe is what they will be initially making for the Evo 3D is tough, but I do not believe it is splash proof, but I am not sure, I will email them regarding this.
\
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I loved the kraken been using the defender . Waiting on ballistic to drop there's and kraken from trident
Over the years, I've grown to love the Seidio cases. My new Photon arrives on Monday and I'm not happy that Seidio has not made an Active Case/Holster combo for it yet.
Anyone using a good case & holster that you recommend? I'll probably start with the case & holster Sprint carries until I find something better. I have contacted Seidio and they said they will have cases soon but could not give a release date.
I'm in the exact same boat as you. Bestbuy sells the session cases under another name as well. Anyways seidio makes the best cases in my opinion. I emailed them as well last week and was told that they'd have them soon.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA Premium App
codee said:
I'm in the exact same boat as you. Bestbuy sells the session cases under another name as well. Anyways seidio makes the best cases in my opinion. I emailed them as well last week and was told that they'd have them soon.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you said "session" cases, did you mean Seidio or is that another company?
I really hope Seidio releases the Active Case and Desktop Charging Cradle soon! My 3VO looks phenomenal with its Active case.
How about both of us keep our fingers crossed!
I too, asked Seidio about it a few weeks ago. Maybe I'll drop 'em another Twitter hint to show that there's demand... ;-)
sjamie said:
When you said "session" cases, did you mean Seidio or is that another company?
I really hope Seidio releases the Active Case and Desktop Charging Cradle soon! My 3VO looks phenomenal with its Active case.
How about both of us keep our fingers crossed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I meant seidio but auto correction has something else in mind lol. But yeah best buy sells them under some performance wireless brand or something along those lines?
Sent from my MB855 using XDA Premium App
I also use Seidio. I'm using a TPU until they get some cases made.
The TPU cases look awesome but I need a belt clip and they don't come with one. Therefore, I bought the Sprint case w/ holster to tide me over until Seidio releases the Active case for the Photon.
codee said:
Sorry, I meant seidio but auto correction has something else in mind lol. But yeah best buy sells them under some performance wireless brand or something along those lines?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think Best Buy sells Seidio's stuff under the brand "Platinum".
Seidio still hasn't put anything out for the Photon yet. I've been pestering them on Twitter.
Beknatok said:
Seidio still hasn't put anything out for the Photon yet. I've been pestering them on Twitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. Look forward to having the Convert case for the Photon.
Beknatok said:
Seidio still hasn't put anything out for the Photon yet. I've been pestering them on Twitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seidio's Photon page is finally up!!!
http://www.seidioonline.com/category-s/6436.htm
Which screen protector do you think provides a better fit around the ear speaker and front camera lens? Is it okay for the clear screen protector material to cover the front camera lens like some protectors do?
Skinomi Techskin
Seidio Ultimate Screen Guard
No Convert case yet.
CCallahan said:
No Convert case yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I'm glad they're making progress!
you can fit the photon in a evo clip holster. i use it daily i bought the motorola clip w/case one from sprint. their holster blows though the case works
If anyone is interested, Siedio says they are making the Convert case for the Photon but no idea on ETA.
I bought the official sprint case/holster, and found out it fits perfectly into the seidio Thunderbolt holster at Bestbuy using the sprint case. It feels very secure, no slop at all like when I tried the photon in the evo and other holsters. You are essentially buying 2 different holsters and piecing them together but it's a perfect fit. I'm still looking forward to the official seidio holster so i don't need a condom on my phone at all.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA Premium App
Seidio's are wack man, I had and active case for evo 4g and corners would break off every few weeks and seidio had the worst warranty ever, what a waste. Stick with otterbox commuter case its looks sweet, protects the best and not fat.
Whomever makes a Active/Commuter style case that actually fits in the MoPho Car Dock will definitely win this. It's probably a good thing Seidio waited a little bit, if they can accomplish this little feat......they're golden!!
ultraret said:
Seidio's are wack man, I had and active case for evo 4g and corners would break off every few weeks and seidio had the worst warranty ever, what a waste. Stick with otterbox commuter case its looks sweet, protects the best and not fat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely has problems with the Seidio case for the Palm Pre. The tabs broke off repeatedly but the Pre's shape made it difficult for anyone to build a good case with a small footprint. Conversely, the Seidio's Active case for my 3VO is the AWESOME!!! If they make an Active case just as good as my 3VO's, I'll be a very happy camper!
I've had my first otterbox defender ever with this evo 3d and though I love the protection, I'm beyond annoyed with the rubber outer layer stretching so it doesn't fit right. I'm already on my second outer layer (they replaced it for me 2 or 3 weeks ago and its already out of shape).
Anything else someone recommends? I don't like the ballistic case btw, looks too bulky compared to otterbox.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
http://www.tridenteer.com/categories/HTC-EVO-3D/
Here are some cases that may be fit for your needs
Thanks, this does look like what I'm looking for. Do you own 1? Any stretching issues like I'm experiencing?
gk1984 said:
Thanks, this does look like what I'm looking for. Do you own 1? Any stretching issues like I'm experiencing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no i plan on trying one out tho. i had one for the evo 4g, and never had problems with stretching.
I'd like to try the Kraken. If you get it, would you mind providing a little review? I emailed Otterbox about the replacement even stretching and see what they say before I make any additional purchases. Amazon has the Kraken for about $10 cheaper btw - just looked. but they only have a handful left... I hate when they do that, makes you feel like its now or never.
gk1984 said:
I'd like to try the Kraken. If you get it, would you mind providing a little review? I emailed Otterbox about the replacement even stretching and see what they say before I make any additional purchases. Amazon has the Kraken for about $10 cheaper btw - just looked. but they only have a handful left... I hate when they do that, makes you feel like its now or never.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard some bad reviews on the Kraken II for the Evo 3D. I decided on ordering the Cyclops II for the Evo 3D, I've heard nothing but good things. Ballistic Cases are another great option.
firemedic1343 said:
I've heard some bad reviews on the Kraken II for the Evo 3D. I decided on ordering the Cyclops II for the Evo 3D, I've heard nothing but good things. Ballistic Cases are another great option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I have been doing some research on the Kraken II too and getting more and more discouraged. I'll look at the Cyclops II and maybe Ballistic.
Otterbox offered to send me 2 replacements this time. I also asked why it is doing this and how I can prevent/minimize it but they ignored that part. I suppose I'll take the replacements, but I don't think I'm going to stick with Otterbox because of this issue. Just still don't know what else to get.
gk1984 said:
I've had my first otterbox defender ever with this evo 3d and though I love the protection, I'm beyond annoyed with the rubber outer layer stretching so it doesn't fit right. I'm already on my second outer layer (they replaced it for me 2 or 3 weeks ago and its already out of shape).
Anything else someone recommends? I don't like the ballistic case btw, looks too bulky compared to otterbox.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had both, and I didn't feel like there was any more bulk to the Ballistic HC than the Otterbox.
mkampy said:
I've had both, and I didn't feel like there was any more bulk to the Ballistic HC than the Otterbox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about warping or stretching? Solid there?
Seidio's is nice. No stretching. I have extended battery so its bulky.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Thanks. which seidio? I'm eyeing the Active with kickstand. I think I did read they they were pretty easily warped by the camera button, but I might have that mistaken with case mate.
EDIT: Thanks for the help, I just went ahead and ordered a seidio.
heres a case that i recently purchased and absolutely love. not as protective at otterboxes or ballistic cases but it survived many nightmarish drops and came out just fine, not a nick or scratch on the case even.the kickstand design is very solid and its made of the same reinforced plastic polymer as otters and ballistic, and it incorporates a hard tpu skin. overall a futuristic design for a futuristic looking phone lol. also a great price
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
Still using the otterbox defender, never had a problem with the silicone stretching. Only thing i can see doing that is constantly taking the rubber off and on.
I don't remove the rubber layer at all. But I just showed my brother yesterday the problem and asked if he had that issue. He also has the e3d and otterbox defender. He doesn't at all. But we compared his outer layer to mine and his is thicker. I don't know why ours are different.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
gk1984 said:
I don't remove the rubber layer at all. But I just showed my brother yesterday the problem and asked if he had that issue. He also has the e3d and otterbox defender. He doesn't at all. But we compared his outer layer to mine and his is thicker. I don't know why ours are different.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "silicone" mixture can be different, that's why they ask for the vendor code when you get them to send you a new one, I would think its very easy to revise the ingrediants to make it fit better or worse, I think putting in my pocket and taking it out stretched out the sides and made it fit a lil lose compared to a new one, my replacement defender fit totally better than my first one, however the same problem did occur over time, again... So I'm with you in the hunt to find that perfect case,
Shot from my shooter in 3D
cleanrom2.8
Well, I'm liking this Seidio Active kickstand case I ordered so far. Doesn't feel quite as durable as otterbox, but enough protection for me. The silicone feel thinner and softer than my otterbox's too so we'll see. At least it's mostly the inner layer that's silicone with the outer hard plastic so maybe it will be ok.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Ballistic HC case, love it, even has a kickstand!
iAmInsaine22 said:
Ballistic HC case, love it, even has a kickstand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I been rockin the hc black/black case since wedneseday. So far nothin but positive feelings. I posted a thread with pics of it next to the defender
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Bumping this thread back up. I had the same problem with my Otterbox Commuter, where the silicon was stretching out too. They even sent me a replacement and the same thing still happened. I got the pink/white 'strength' version if it made a difference. I never took the silicon off that often and the phone is carried in my purse mostly. So I didn't understand how the silicon can stretch out like that.
Thinking of emailing them to let them know of the issue, but I don't really want any more phone cases from them. I ended up getting a Casemate slim case which I love. I also got the Casemate equiv of the Commuter and the silicon they use is much stiffer and fits a lot snugger.
OP you mentioned they offered you 2 replacements. Is it replacements for the same phone case? Or cases for other devices?
I e-mailed Trident to find out when to expect their cases to be released for the ltevo and I thought I'd share what they told me in case anyone else was interested.
" Our cases for the HTC EVO 4G LTE should be available sometime at the end of this month or early August. So, your best bet is to check our website periodically from time to time and when this case does debut, you will see it be made available right away on our website."
I really liked the Trident Aegis on my old Epic Touch. Hopefully this one doesn't disappoint either.
Sent from my HTC Evo LTE
I ordered the Cyclops case on cyclopscase.com for 25.49 using a 15% off promo code. They said they should have it in stock on the 16 of this month but who knows.
For ~25 I think the Cyclops case is a good deal. AFAIK the Cyclops cases go for 39.99 on the trident website. Hopefully this Cyclops case doesnt add much bulk. I had the Aegis on my 3d and it's a very good case. Let's see how the Cyclops compares to it. I'm aware that the cyclops cases add a little more bulk than the aegis cases but with my LTEVO being really thing and feeling fragile in my hands I feel like it may take some major damage if I happen to drop it... even with the otterbox commuter case I currently have on it!
EDIT: Link to the cases/website
Cyclops :http://www.cyclopscase.com/cyclops-ii-case-for-htc-evo-4g-lte-red/
Aegis: http://www.cyclopscase.com/aegis-case-for-htc-evo-4g-lte-black/
Finally got my HTC EVO 4G LTE. I need a case. I got the Otterbox Defender and its going back. I am concerned with the port covers.
I really like the Ballistic and the Kraken. I can't decide. I had a Trident case for my previous phone. I like both cases. I am leaning towards the Kraken because of the dust covers.
I have 4 little kids and my EVO is our only phone. My husband calls the EVO my fifth child since its always with me. I take meticulous care of it.
My kids on the other hand, are constantly bringing me the phone, and we have a two story house. So I need a case that can withstand little hands and lots of drops.
I need to make a decision very soon, as my baby needs protection!
Thanks in advance.
HudsFamily said:
Finally got my HTC EVO 4G LTE. I need a case. I got the Otterbox Defender and its going back. I am concerned with the port covers.
I really like the Ballistic and the Kraken. I can't decide. I had a Trident case for my previous phone. I like both cases. I am leaning towards the Kraken because of the dust covers.
I have 4 little kids and my EVO is our only phone. My husband calls the EVO my fifth child since its always with me. I take meticulous care of it.
My kids on the other hand, are constantly bringing me the phone, and we have a two story house. So I need a case that can withstand little hands and lots of drops.
I need to make a decision very soon, as my baby needs protection!
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't had a Kraken before but I don't think you could go wrong with either choice. The Ballistic that I had on my OG Evo was the most protection I have ever had on a phone. I could throw that thing up in the air twenty feet and not worry about it. I don't think anybody has had a maximum coverage case like the Hardcore that Ballistic issued for the og Evo. Trident seems to be a more artful case if you are concerned with looks. But the Ballistic is the one that I would opt for.
HudsFamily said:
Finally got my HTC EVO 4G LTE. I need a case. I got the Otterbox Defender and its going back. I am concerned with the port covers.
I really like the Ballistic and the Kraken. I can't decide. I had a Trident case for my previous phone. I like both cases. I am leaning towards the Kraken because of the dust covers.
I have 4 little kids and my EVO is our only phone. My husband calls the EVO my fifth child since its always with me. I take meticulous care of it.
My kids on the other hand, are constantly bringing me the phone, and we have a two story house. So I need a case that can withstand little hands and lots of drops.
I need to make a decision very soon, as my baby needs protection!
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately they do not make a HC ballistic case for the EVO. So I got the next best thing, the ballistic sg maxx case. Not too bulky, has dust covers for the ports, reinforced silicone corners, removable screen protector (although the screen protector reduces touch sensitivity) and a belt clip. Great protection in a fairly slim package. Ebay has them for about $30
Sent from my Rooted, LazyPanda S-Off, White "Destroy Mode" Evo
I can see why you don't like the Otterbox Defender because of its thickness.
I'd go Ballistic. Seriously and figuratively.
Thanks so much. I am gonna go Ballistic. Now the tough part, what color?
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Have you considered the Cyclops instead of the Kraken? They seem to be starting to become available.
Kisakuku said:
Have you considered the Cyclops instead of the Kraken? They seem to be starting to become available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Cyclops case... However I wouldnt recommend it due to the op's situation. It's basically a 2 piece hard shell. I thought it was a 3 piece case but I was wrong. Also the black on every Cyclops case is glossy and the case is EASILY scratchable.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
KL45SiiK said:
I have the Cyclops case... However I wouldnt recommend it due to the op's situation. It's basically a 2 piece hard shell. I thought it was a 3 piece case but I was wrong. Also the black on every Cyclops case is glossy and the case is EASILY scratchable.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.tridenteer.com/categories/HTC-EVO-4G-LTE/CYCLOPS-Case-for-HTC-EVO-4G-LTE/
Looks like a 3-piece case to me, unless I'm missing something.
Kisakuku said:
http://www.tridenteer.com/categories/HTC-EVO-4G-LTE/CYCLOPS-Case-for-HTC-EVO-4G-LTE/
Looks like a 3-piece case to me, unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a three piece... I have the case and I can certainly tell u it's not a 3 piece
I also thought it was a 3 piece but I was wrong
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
I have Cyclops. It's two piece. Search for my in depth review of it in the accessories section.
I would go ballistic though.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Link?
newfireorange said:
I have Cyclops. It's two piece. Search for my in depth review of it in the accessories section.
I would go ballistic though.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a ballistic maxx on my s3. Worst effin case ive ever seen. Took it back in 1 day. That screen protector is the dumbest thing ever. Pops out rainbow haze and is not very clear.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
I have the SG for my Evo. From what I noticed the Maxx simply adds a plastic on the screen. I decided to simply get a clear screen protector rather than the plastic cover.
The reason I went with ballistic was because I had the HC case for my OG, it offered amazing protection. Unfortunately they decided to no longer make cases like that which is a shame.
I feel like I mist warn you, unless you can find a case like the old HC ones, your phone will still be vulnerable. I didn't use my phone until the case and screen protector arrived. The first day dropped it from about 4/5 feet onto the carpet by accident. I noticed it was slightly bent (it was no longer straight, rather it had a slight curve) not noticeable unless you try hard to find it.
Anyway the point is that since the phone is so thin and made of aluminium, a lot of people are reporting that the phone bends. There is a thread here somewhere on XDA with pictures.
Needless to say I'm extremely careful and don't even drive with the phone in my pocket after hearing another member mention that it bent after making a maneuver while driving. Maybe he had skinny jeans but I'd rather not take chances.
Also, my case doesn't have covers for the USB or headphone port. I don't know if they've recently added it or not.