I read an article on Ipadforums that said Microsoft will release Microsoft Office for IPad in Feb. 2012. This is great news that they bringing this to mobile platform but how long do you think it'll be before they give Android some love also? This will kinda be a big deal as this could finally be the word processing capabilities that students and other people have been yearning for on Android. I would hope Microsoft would have the best version of word processing considering it's their format n programs that's most widely used in pc community. Do you think it could be implemented in full capacity or that it might have to be dumbed down some.
Just a f.y.I. In case you haven't heard this news. It's been rumored for a while but now I think it's official.
Is this a full Office suite or is it their answer to Google Docs? I think that is called MS Office 365 or something similar. I'd be curious to know. This is where software is headed in the future anyway so it would make sense if that is what it is.
edit:// I just looked at MS Office 365 and it will already work on our devices including the Prime. It is cloud hosted software though and is $6 a month.
For some reason knowing Microsoft, they will drag their feet for a couple years, and if it ever does drop for android i would imagine it to be a very very very water downed version. (It pretty much depends on Microsoft's relation ship with Google). Now i have no basis for this opinion, other than the last several versions of office for mac. Despite Microsoft having one of the best word processing suites for Windows they always seem to make the mac version seem cumbersome and not as good.
skeptikal said:
Is this a full Office suite or is it their answer to Google Docs? I think that is called MS Office 365 or something similar. I'd be curious to know. This is where software is headed in the future anyway so it would make sense if that is what it is.
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I just checked the article again and it doesn't specify if full suite or not. Plus article won't name sources. I think it's against rules to link an article from another forum, so I didn't. I'm curious also as to how much can be expected out of it. Apple has iworks to compensate for non existing Microsoft office before. Bit Android never really had anything like iworks. Only third party apps n such. Which some work great also but hardly any that let's you do everything or at least a suite of apps from same developer to compliment each other.
lmm112190 said:
For some reason knowing Microsoft, they will drag their feet for a couple years, and if it ever does drop for android i would imagine it to be a very very very water downed version. (It pretty much depends on Microsoft's relation ship with Google). Now i have no basis for this opinion, other than the last several versions of office for mac. Despite Microsoft having one of the best word processing suites for Windows they always seem to make the mac version seem cumbersome and not as good.
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Supposedly Microsoft just updated or is going to update the Mac version. I wouldn't think apple/Microsoft relationship could be better than one with Microsoft n google. Apple has been their arch nemesis for years. Apple has always cried Bill Gates stole their tech and made him the richest man in the world because of it..lol not bill fault they sold him the rights when he knew the true potential of it.
I use office pretty regularly and am actually considering paying 6 bucks a month for the cloud version. $72 bucks a year sounds sort of reasonable to me for an official MS Office product. Worth a trial at least.
For the Transformer series, an awesome word-processing application is essential. I find it hilarious that there is really no good one on Android yet.
Polaris is absolutely awful.
My money is on Google to finally update their Google Docs app to make it half-decent for tablets. But right now, it is a disgrace.
We also have LibreOffice announcing an Android version slated for 2012. Microsoft has slowly been releasing mobile versions of their software so I am sure there will be a Office 365 version out there eventually.
I have used a few Android Office Suites, and my favorite is QuickOffice Pro HD, specifically designed for tablets. Allows for opening, editing and authoring Word, Excel, PowerPoint and PDFs. It also supports "save as" for Office 2010, 2007, and 2003.
It was Amazon Free App of the Day a month ago, and I love it. Best thing is that it hooks to many different cloud document storage sites, like GoogleDocs and Dropbox.
http://www.quickoffice.com/quickoffice_pro_hd_android/ for screen caps. It's as close as you can get to the real MS Office for a tablet, I think.
The phone version (non-HD version) is not that great, IMO. The tablet specific one is pretty darned good.
xTRICKYxx said:
For the Transformer series, an awesome word-processing application is essential. I find it hilarious that there is really no good one on Android yet.
Polaris is absolutely awful.
My money is on Google to finally update their Google Docs app to make it half-decent for tablets. But right now, it is a disgrace.
We also have LibreOffice announcing an Android version slated for 2012. Microsoft has slowly been releasing mobile versions of their software so I am sure there will be a Office 365 version out there eventually.
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I'd not say there is no good one. I quite like QuickOffice.
I agree that there is no good office suite for Android as of yet. I prefer QuickOffice mostly because of the cloud integration, but all other features are roughly the same as other apps (I actually like the look of Polaris best, but no dropbox integration makes it worthless to me). I would be thrilled to see a full office suite from Microsoft or anyone else (hoping LibreOffice comes through!). But really, all we need is for Microsoft to open MS Live office to mobile browsers - that would be enough for me, though I would rather have an app like QuickOffice with full cloud integration and full formatting features and spell check(!). It seems silly to me that nothing like that exists. Hell, when I type posts on this forum, I get more formatting options than most, if not all, office apps and it has spell check!
Yeah, quick office HD pro is a good one. I have it on my iPad along with Office2 HD, Docs to Go premium, and Iworks Pages. Also PDF expert n PDF reader. Got several different ones just in case one does something the other doesn't do.
So for Android, as I'm hearing, quick office HD is the way to go. At least until Microsoft releases office. I mainly use these apps to make/edit my resumes in such. Some apps act funny with formatting n such. Reading and filling out pdf'sworks well with PDF expert n PDF reader.
Does Android have those others I mentioned, minus Pages? I think I've seen docs2go. I have quick office on my Atrix4g. Will definitely get the HD version for Prime once I pick it up.
When I consider the numerous areas where Google is in direct competition with MS,l I would be very suprprised if MS offered any products which even remotely benefited the Android platform. Of course, once Windows 8 is released for portable devices, the odds of an Android version of Office, will probably approach zip.
All I know is that the SINGLE biggest thing preventing tablets from being able to serve as an effective replacement for ultra slim laptops is the lack of word processing abilities. If tablets were able to do that, they would be able to do pretty much everything I use my laptop for. Word processing is absolutely KEY for any sort of computer device that is supposed to have practical benefit for your life. As a student, it is essentially the only thing I do on my laptop that is entirely practicality-focused rather than media focused that tablets can't do.
While I'm probably going to be getting the TF Prime, the only thing holding me back is if I really need it. If it was capable of word processing, that question would be absolutely erased from my mind. Anyone in the tablet industry needs to jump on making that happen.
I highly doubt Microsoft will release anything worthwhile on Android.
Personally, I'm holding out for LibreOffice, though I also have a faint hope that Google might actually develop their Gdocs app into a full office suite app, something with the same capabilities of the desktop version at least.
If none of those happen... well, here's hoping for dual-booting Android/Windows 8.
LibreOffice for Android is in the works as I read somewhere. I much prefer LibreOffice to MsOffice. I also don't like much what Android has to offer, because no app saves odt files, which I prefer. Still - fully functional web Google Docs would be enough for me.
Related
http://www.geek.com/first-look-qualcomms-new-fairbanks-and-anchorage-mobile-platforms/
The anchorage with its tasty 1ghz processor seems like it might be a easy replacement for the x7500. Who knows when it will arrive and in what shape internally. Some nice xp or linux action on the anchorage might be nice.
I saw that too, and am really interested in getting more info. However, I would still like it to run window mobile, hopefully wm7. XP will be a bad news for me. XP is simply not appropriate as a mobile, from the viewpoint of battery efficiency, software availability, instant on capability, etc. I'll be disappointed if it is Linux, as third party software just isn't good enough.
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
HeartOfDarkness said:
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
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By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
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IMO phone is more for demonstration than actual utility. It is too tightly controlled by Steve Job. There isn't the same openness to foster third party software. Without the richness of third party software and choices, what you bought is what you get. It will always be limited relative to winmo devices. With winmo, each of us is able to change the device to our very individual taste.
I won't underestimate the power of microsoft to bring about a really good hand gestured based OS that works really really well with mobile devices, and that will heap frog the competition. May be wm7 feels like a late start, but I get the feeling that it will be solid.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
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Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
yetdy said:
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
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a 1ghz processor on a wm6 device is pretty pointless if you balance out barely-noticeable speed upgrade over loss of battery life. I have found the difference between windows mobile machines to be more about individual tweaks than the power of the processor: i certainly wasn't wowed by the Athena's performance after upgrading from a Hermes.
One thing windows needs to get right in the next upgrade is that it needs to LOOK AND FEEL NICE, and be EASY TO USE. This will take the windows mobile platform out of the nerd/office exec market and into the mainstream, something that just cannot be done at the moment despite the valiant tweaks of HTC with the Touch series.
Windows Mobile is fine for me, I'm used to it, but for the novice it's long-winded.
The performance of Windows mobile is abysmal when lined up against Linux and especially Apple machines: look at the smooth menu systems on Iphones, and the way the integrated pinch zoom mechanism fluidly drifts in and out. No programmer on earth could acheive these results around the current windows mobile architecture, this despite the fact that the Iphone has a 620mhz ARM processor comparable to the Athena's.
The Iphone is also capable of rendering web pages more reliably than the Athena - the only drawback in this respect is its meagre Edge connectivity.
Linux on the other hand has lots of potential:With open-source development, and loads of easily-ported software it's interesting to say the least.
Haavard Nord, the CE of a big mobile Linux developer recently said " if you want to build a phone using the Microsoft operating system it is pretty restricted what you can do with the user interface due to the licensing agreement between the customer and Microsoft. Microsoft wants to make sure everyone knows it’s a Windows Mobile phone so it limits what branding you can put on the phone."
This could cause problems for microsoft: the pda market is known to be decreasing, while Symbian continues to develop a huge foothold in the market.
If the capabilities of Symbian and Linux continue to develop then I see a great market loss for Microsoft unless they buck their ideas up and start WORKING with their manufacturers.
Get out of the fricking dark ages Microsoft before you screw up big time.
ONly a few weeks ago, leoni, I would have agreed with you about pretty much everyting but now, I have to say that WinCE (the "heart" of Windows MObile) is FAR from being that bad performance-wise, now that I have had the opportunity to dive deep into it (at work).
It's actually Windows Mobile that sucks, which basically is CE + crappy GUI, not Windows CE, and it's WinCE that you have to compare with LInux and stuff. Because Linux by itself may be cool, but you will not be able to run very heavy GUIs like Enlignhtenment on current mobile devices, however great Linux may be.
MY POINT being: WinCE is an extremely solid, fast and reliable OS. Simply looking at how 90% off all autonomous GPS run under WinCE, and knowing that the fastest of them are equipped with 300 MHz processors should convince you of that.
Look at what HTC, which is NOT a software company by far, managed to do for the Touch line in pretty much the blink of an eye.
It's the Windows Mobile team that needs some extremely heavily applied butt-kicking. Both because they still do not understand that people want simplicity and beauty on their mobile device, but also because they want to stick, absolutly, to this "Windows Desktop-like" GUI.
I *think* Microsoft finally got the message. But as they're also trying to converge all their OSes, the future is quite uncertain...
As to the iPhone 2... It's both way too remote, and way too "locked-down" a system to work for me... If Apple wants to have someone like me interested (and I don't mean they should necessarily, but we're talking about how Apple could please me with the iPhone2), they need to review their content management policies.
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6. They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
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I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
eaglesteve said:
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
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The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm which has lots of snazzy features. The site linked on this page is somewhat misleading.....
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
leoni1980 said:
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm.
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
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I suppose we just have to disagree over the N95 versus Athena's ability to deliver good internet browsing experience.
You said the Anchorage will never be released (not may never be released). What makes you so certain?
I have no qualm with using Linux if it has the same array of quality software. I heard that the GPS software on N810 is a piece of crap, for example. I have never come across any website that indicates I can get third party software at this moment. It may be true that more software will be available in the future, but that does not help because I need it right now. For GPS, I only want iGO, or one that does warn me if I exceed the legal speed limit; is iGO available on linux? Can I get Cash Organiser on linux? What about creating and editing Word and Excel documents, can that be done on linux yet? What about MobileGolfScorer, which is the best golfing software that I know of? Does it run on linux? If not, is that anything as good? The list goes on and on.
It may be true that with WM7 some software may not run. We know that from the wm2003se to wm5 upgrade experience. However, almost all the software vendors quickly adapted with the newer version, so I'm not worried. I've watched a video interview with the WM7 development team, and know that they do try their best to minimise migration difficulties.
One of the attractions of Qualcomm's SnapDragon platform is its low battery consumption. It consumes between 250 to 500 miliwatt of battery. In contrast, the A110 and A100 chip from Intel consumes about 3 watts, which is 6 to 12 times more power hungry. The Intel's Silverthorne consumes power between 0.6 and 2.0 watts.
The chipset apparently allows even full OS to run on it. This may be the start of a more useable UMPC running full OS??
HTC is currently testing SnapDragon. Let's hope that they adopt it and come up with a battery efficient mobile device.
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
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Confucious said:
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
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Youtube is only sited as a prime example of a flash-based site. Vtap, and other solutions do not allow access to all Flash 9 based sites.
On the subject of the Anchorage - it is definitely not being released, which is no surprise since its primary function was to demonstrate the Snapdragon Chipset - the device wasn't even fully functional and was only running WM5. HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
HTC are demostrably not concentrating soley on Windows Mobile anymore so it's a good bet that these new chipsets will herald more full windows/linux devices - I'll be happy with that!
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
And it's free.
Nokia Maps (wayfinder) also works fine. To be honest though I don't really need GPS as I don't drive.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
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leoni1980 said:
Confucious said:
HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
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Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
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eaglesteve said:
leoni1980 said:
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
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You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
Not so bothered about on screen keyboards on N800 - there's a stylus kboard and a thumb kboard which are both fine. I don't do extensive typing anyway, mostly listening to bbc onine or fm radio with the plugins and browsing the net. I do pretty much all my major typing on the EEE. I can't imagine a long period of typing with onscreen input but I take my hat off to you for managing it. I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
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leoni1980 said:
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
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One year passes very fast. By then I would have already got 2 year use and would pass on Athena to one of my sons who frequently fight over the use of Athena with me now.
As to the typing speed, watch the speed demo on this website:
http://www.tengo.net/
You'll then understand why Tengo is so different and unique as compared to the normal softscreen keyboard.
The speed limit is accurate for most of the roads. On some roads the speed limit has not been entered into the database. I understand that in one of the Tom Tom versions, users are able to manually update a particular road's speed limit as well as to add/change/delete road. I don't rely on it to the extend of not watching the speed sign and speedometer, since some road's speed are not there. I use it just to mimimise the chance of speeding when I day dream away, or got distracted.
So, there are GPS software and there are GPS software. They are'nt created equal. What I like about my existing winmo platform is that I have already sourced the best of bread in almost all areas. Finding applications which are as good on Linux platform may be a challenge.
leoni1980 said:
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
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Well, you hugely underestimate what a "basic" satnav application does, I believe. TomTom, or others in kind, probably are the most power-hundgry applications running on our devices, especially so since they are, on top of CPU hungry, usually greedy on graphic resources. Yet most of the WinCE devices that run dedicated satnav solutions are 200, at most 300 MHz.
leoni1980 said:
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6.
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As I said in my previous post, it has everything to do with WinCE. Of course, the Touch GUI is, basically, a Windows Mobile application. But, Windows CE is, just the same, underlying all this. And it's WinCE that allows for easy, fast and efficient application development and allowed HTC to produce the Touch application that fast.
leoni1980 said:
They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
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Right. But do not forget that the GUI of the Nokia and iPhone you mention end, too, at the nice-looking GUI. The difference, and advantage, we have on these devices is that however flawed the ergonomy of the rest of the interface is, it is at our disposal, while it does not even exist on those other devices.
leoni1980 said:
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
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They didn't do it for multiple reasons: they didn't need to (the WinCE platform was self-sustaining, competition faded to nothingness...), and they were even required to make an interface that even vaguely ressembled the desktop versions of Windows...
leoni1980 said:
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
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Mainly the fact that, in they roadmap, they said from the start that:
- WM6 would be a "consolidation" of WM5;
- WM7 would provide a significant overhaul, in particular with the GUI and the general user experience.
leoni1980 said:
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
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Nokia is, for now, the leader in mobile devices. Whichever OS they use is, therefore, the most distributed OS. But that's valid for "regular" phones, NOT PDA phones. In the PDA, and PDA phones market, Windows Mobile is quite simply the undisputed leader.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
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I can't agree more that PocketIE should be much better. In fact, much more than the "Windows-like" GUI, I find it infuriating to have such a basic 'HTML experience" on such a state of the art device, in 2007/2008. If the iPhone has any impact on our WinMo machines, I hope it is to show that integrating functionnalities such as Youtube, weather forecast, etc. is a minimum requirement for integrated functionnalities.
Hey all, Just bought the g-tab as my first android device. I liked playing with the Xoom and iPads in the store, but wanted the same experience for cheap and knew that I would have to root this g-tab thing to unleash that awesome hardware value. So far I've easily put TNT Lite 4.2 and it really is much faster and more usable then the Tap N Crap that viewsonic shipped. Thanks a bunch devs for fixing what should have never been modded in such a crappy way.
My question is will there every be Android 3.0 available for the gtab? I just read an article about how google is trying to ensure oems don't mess up the UI like viewsonic did to protect their reputation. Since the gtab wasn't even an official android device, I'm wondering if Honeycomb will even be available to viewsonic or devs here to put on the gtab.
I totally agree with this article. Google shouldn't be as totalitarian as Apple, but this lack of quality control is making Android look bad in the public sphere (not to hackers of course) So did I just buy a dead end device?
As a new user - I still can't post links, so here's the pasted article from pc world:
Why Google's Tighter Control Over Android Is a Good Thing
Limiting availability of Android 3.0 code and apparent tightening of Android smartphone standards means that Google finally gets it about the platform.
By Galen Gruman, Infoworld Apr 6, 2011 11:30 am
Last week, Google said it would not release the source for its Android 3.0 "Honeycomb" tablet to developers and would limit the OS to select hardware makers, at least initially. Now there are rumors reported by Bloomberg Businessweek that Google is requiring Android device makers to get UI changes approved by Google .
As my colleague Savio Rodrigues has written, limiting the Honeycomb code is not going to hurt the Android market . I believe reining in the custom UIs imposed on Android is a good thing. Let's be honest: They exist only so companies like Motorola, HTC, and Samsung can pretend to have any technology involvement in the Android products they sell and claim they have some differentiating feature that should make customers want their model of an Android smartphone versus the umpteenth otherwise-identical Android smartphones out there.
[ Compare mobile devices using your own criteria with InfoWorld's smartphone calculator and tablet calculator. | Keep up on key mobile developments and insights via Twitter and with theMobile Edge blog and Mobilize newsletter. ]
The reality of Android is that it is the new Windows : an operating system used by multiple hardware vendors to create essentially identical products, save for the company name printed on it. That of course is what the device makers fear -- both those like Acer that already live in the race-to-the-bottom PC market and those like Motorola and HTC that don't want to.
But these cosmetic UI differences cause confusion among users, sending the message that Android is a collection of devices, not a platform like Apple's iOS. As Android's image becomes fragmented, so does the excitement that powers adoption. Anyone who's followed the cell phone industry has seen how that plays out: There are 1 billion Java-based cell phones out there, but no one knows it, and no one cares, as each works so differently that the Java underpinnings offer no value to anyone but Oracle, which licenses the technology.
Google initially seemed to want to play the same game as Oracle (and before it Sun), providing an under-the-hood platform for manufacturers to use as they saw fit. But a couple curious things happened:
Vendors such as Best Buy started selling the Android brand, to help create a sense of a unified alternative to BlackBerry and iOS, as well as to help prevent customers from feeling overwhelmed by all the "different" phones available. Too much choice confuses people, and salespeople know that.
Several mobile device makers shipped terrible tablets based on the Android 2.2 smartphone OS -- despite Google's warnings not to -- because they were impatient with Google's slow progress in releasing Honeycomb. These tablets, such as the Galaxy Tab , were terrible products and clear hack jobs that only demonstrated the iPad's superiority . I believe they also finally got the kids at Google to understand that most device makers have no respect for the Android OS and will create the same banal products for it as they do for Windows. The kids at Google have a mission, and enabling white-box smartphones isn't it.
I've argued before that Android's fragmentation, encouraged by its open source model, was a mistake . Google should drive the platform forward and ride herd on those who use it in their devices. If it wants to make the OS available free to stmulate adoption, fine. But don't let that approach devolve into the kind of crappy results that many device makers are so clueless (or eager -- take your pick) to deliver.
So far, Google's been lucky in that the fragmentation has been largely in cosmetic UI areas, which doesn't affect most Android apps and only annoys customers when they switch to a new device. The fragmentation of Android OS versions across devices is driving many Android developers away , as are fears over a fractured set of app stores. Along these lines, Google has to break the carriers' update monopoly, as Apple did, so all Android devices can be on the same OS page.
It is true that HTC's Eris brought some useful additions to the stock Android UI, serving as a model for future improvements. But the HTC example is the exception, and Google's apparent new policy would allow such enhancements if Google judges them to be so.
More to the point is what the tablet makers such as ViewSonic, Dell, and Samsung did with their first Android tablets. Their half-baked products showed how comfortable they are soiling the Android platform. For them, Android is just another OS to throw on hardware designed for something else in a cynical attempt to capture a market wave. The consistently low sales should provide a clue that users aren't buying the junk. But do they blame the hardware makers or Google? When so many Android devices are junk, it'll be Google whose reputation suffers.
Let's not forget Google's competition, and why Google can't patiently teach these companies about user experience: Apple, a company that knows how to nurture, defend, and evangelize a platform. Let's also not forget the fate of Microsoft and Nokia , who let their Windows Mobile and Symbian OSes fragment into oblivion. And let's remember that the one company that knows how the vanilla-PC game is played, Hewlett-Packard, has decided to move away from the plain-vanilla Windows OS and stake its future on its own platform, WebOS , for both PCs and mobile devices. In that world, a fragmented, confused, soiled Android platform would have no market at all.
If Google finally understands that Android is a platform to be nurtured and defended, it has a chance of remaining a strong presence in the mobile market for more than a few faddish years. If not, it's just throwing its baby into the woods, where it will find cruel exploitation, not nurturing or defense.
I didn't read your 1000 word post, but I read your topic. HC on GTAB has NOTHING to do with Google. It has everything to do with Nvidia abandoning GTAB.
The media has an idea in their head but they are shooting the messenger. Google has no choice when Nvidia stops producing source for the proprietary elements of the system.
Nvidia simply does not care about Harmony which is the hardware reference legacy devices are built on.
So this device is going to be left behind when it comes to the new android stuff?
It is interesting that you ask. With 318 posts here you have to have followed some of the threads discussing this before. At this point in time I don't think anyone knows. Lots of speculation, lots of pent up desire and the best Devs ever so I am sure there will be improvements, Will it ever make full HC who knows?? If you read your article carefully, even the stuff out there ( Zoom and Transformer) does not have complete Honeycomb.
I wonder what Honeycomb will bring to the picture that we don't have already. I have my gtablet rooted and running TnT 4.4 and it's sufficient for almost all my tablet needs. Yesterday I was reading Kindle books to the kids, streaming movies/music from my media center PC, watching youtube and browsing the net, all with nary a hiccup. I even got a cheapo keyboard leathercase to use for editing documents. If it's the UI, the current Launcher Pro Premium and GO Launcher EX are pretty nice alternatives.
I have played with the XOOM tablet at Best Buy and thought other than some pretty UI and a nicer screen, functionally I wasn't getting much for double the price.
samaruf said:
I wonder what Honeycomb will bring to the picture that we don't have already. I have my gtablet rooted and running TnT 4.4 and it's sufficient for almost all my tablet needs. Yesterday I was reading Kindle books to the kids, streaming movies/music from my media center PC, watching youtube and browsing the net, all with nary a hiccup. I even got a cheapo keyboard leathercase to use for editing documents. If it's the UI, the current Launcher Pro Premium and GO Launcher EX are pretty nice alternatives.
I have played with the XOOM tablet at Best Buy and thought other than some pretty UI and a nicer screen, functionally I wasn't getting much for double the price.
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Thats interesting. What ROM are you running? Most of my video is choppy, and I read in the dev forum this has to do with no video acceleration yet for the Gingerbread versions.
Good point - if it does what you want it to do then so what if it's not the newest... I'm a little embarrassed, but still rockin out to my first gen iPod nano a the gym
Guess I still wanted whatever tablet specific ui improvements that honeycomb was expected to bring.
nitefallz said:
Thats interesting. What ROM are you running? Most of my video is choppy, and I read in the dev forum this has to do with no video acceleration yet for the Gingerbread versions.
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As I mentioned in my post, my ROM is TnT Lite 4.4 with Clemsyn's kernel (v9). I can stream 700 MB avi files with no stuttering or choppiness. I use GMote app on the tablet and the GMote server in the media PC. My video player is Rockplayer, which is free from the market.
I too was just at Best Buy bout a week ago and messed around with the Xoom for a little bit. Quickly I realized why its been a couple years since I've been to this store (prices?!?!), not to mention the help asking me if I had any questions and if I was looking to buy the Xoom (they left me alone after proclaiming I was completely satisfied with my gtab).
The only real difference I could notice (which in my eyes was a big one) was the interface. Its definitely more "flashy" in looks and prettier for eye-candy, but no real difference outside of that, actually seemed to lag a bit; almost comparable to the gtab out of box.
Me personally, I'm in no hurry to see any kind of honeycreams equivalent make its way to the gtab. I'm more anxious to see gojimi release their vegan ginger Beta more than anything right now. Been counting the days (sometimes hours) since reading their update about him coming back from vacation, lets do this!
Closing thread - see this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1026411
Came across this today, looks very interesting for us, does this mean a fully running version of windows could be run on our primes very soon? (would love to dual boot with windows and android)
Thoughts? sorry if its been brought up before
source - http://m.intomobile.com/2012/03/08/microsoft-challenges-onlive-over-its-windows-7onipad-software/
"OnLive is facing some heat from Microsoft today. The company, which provides an application that allows users of Apple’s iPad and Google Android tablets to run a hosted Windows 7 environment on their tablets, is reportedly utilizing Microsoft’s software without the proper licenses in place.
In a blog post on Microsoft’s Volume Licensing blog, Corporate VP of Licensing Joe Matz outlined terms companies must abide by when they provide Windows virtualization, or virtual machines that run the Windows and Office environment. Mr. Matz’s post stated that Microsoft is actively working with OnLive to bring the company in compliance with Microsoft’s Licensing terms, and likely reassured its partners that the investigation into OnLive is being treated as an issue that Microsoft is taking seriously.
The issue was brought to light via a Gartner analysis dating back to February 29th, which called out the services potential licensing risks. For a small monthly fee per user, OnLive gave users access to a virtual Windows desktop running Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer 9. Per the virtualization licensing policy, providing access in this way requires end users (Onlive’s customers) to have valid license keys for these products.
As a result of the Gartner report (or, more likely, pressure from other partners/licensees), Microsoft decided to go public with news of the investigation into OnLive, and to find a way to bring OnLive into compliance. Over coming weeks, we expect OnLive will announce a licensing deal with Microsoft that will allow users of its service to continue using the OnLive Desktop service, though the move could raise prices above the current $4.99 per user fee schedule.
Here’s hoping OnLive and Micrsoft are able to come to terms fairly quickly, as the OnLive Desktop service is a potentially powerful tool for iPad and Android tablet users."
OnLive Desktop is already available. It's in the Marke... er, on Play.
Now, we'll see if OnLive was playing monkey business with Windows and Office licensing. If so, the service could disappear pretty quickly.
All I see is a price rise
It's a pretty decent service. It nicely addresses the nagging problem that all Android Office-like apps are totally lame, and mostly unusable (I've purchased and tested them all).
Anything much more than $4.99 per month would be a deal-killer for me, though, since all you get is a subset of Office plus a browser. Not enough to be shelling out, say, even low three figures per year.
Look for Microsoft to once again screw up a good and innovative idea. OnLive doesn't threaten to significantly cannibalize Office sales, because it's a limited solution to a limited problem, not an alternative to actually owning Office on your Windows or Mac machine. Consequently, if MS could shake just a dollar per user per month out of OnLive it would be, for all intents and purposes, free money for them. But no. They'll get piggish and force the service's price up to a level which is unsupportable, thus driving OnLive out of business.
DrDawg said:
Look for Microsoft to once again screw up a good and innovative idea. OnLive doesn't threaten to significantly cannibalize Office sales, because it's a limited solution to a limited problem, not an alternative to actually owning Office on your Windows or Mac machine. Consequently, if MS could shake just a dollar per user per month out of OnLive it would be, for all intents and purposes, free money for them. But no. They'll get piggish and force the service's price up to a level which is unsupportable, thus driving OnLive out of business.
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I think Microsoft has every right to be upset about this. Nobody has a right to use Office without paying for it, whether or not any given user would otherwise purchase the product. And if Microsoft doesn't defend their licensing, it opens them up for numerous problems.
Seriously, why should OnLive be able to make a business out of essentially stealing other companies' products? If they can't figure out a way to do it profitably and legally, then that's their problem, not Microsoft's.
so i just downloaded it to see what its like and found that its the touch version of windows. it got me thinking is there anyway to make a desktop version of windows the touch version so when we connect with splashtop it works like its meant to be on a tablet?
jellydroid13 said:
so i just downloaded it to see what its like and found that its the touch version of windows. it got me thinking is there anyway to make a desktop version of windows the touch version so when we connect with splashtop it works like its meant to be on a tablet?
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I believe there is a Tablet Interface button or control panel somewhere in Windows 7. I just can't recall where I saw it, but it was in the past week on my system at home.
wynand32 said:
OnLive Desktop is already available. It's in the Marke... er, on Play.
Now, we'll see if OnLive was playing monkey business with Windows and Office licensing. If so, the service could disappear pretty quickly.
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Not in Germany, no, it is not.
I know that we all probably figured as much and understand that in the future, Mobile phones and tablets will defeat PCs and Laptops completely (now that we are getting devices that can double or even triple as phone, tablet and potentially PC/laptop), still it is an interesting read and article. So, have a look at this. Specifically click on the "Future of Mobile>" link at the bottom of the article to see a powerpoint presentation!
Interesting indeed. I've wondered about this before, specifically Microsoft's future and the 'Andriod vs. iOS' war.
When it comes to Microsoft, I'm just not sure anymore. Sure, they have their hands gripped tightly around the desktop and laptop markets, but seeing this only reaffirms my opinion that Microsoft doesn't have much left going for them. With smartphones and tablets often going for more than an entire desktop computer, and now that phones and tablets truly are grossing more sales than desktops and laptops, Microsoft isn't the giant corporation it used to be. At least, not in comparison to the competition. If they don't get their act together soon, they may start to see profits dwindle. Frankly I'm surprised they haven't tried stronger marketing campaigns for their Windows phones and tablets; I know they exist, but I've never seen one in person and I've never seen an ad for them.
When it comes to Apple vs. Google/Motorola/Samsung/HTC/Nokia/Rim (essentially all mobile phone manufacturers), I've often wondered who will pull out ahead when smartphones continue to rise in sales and popularity. On one hand there is Android, along with it's very large user-base and realistically small developer-base, and on the other is iOS and its even larger user-base, extremely strong fanboy mentality, and its incredibly large developer-base. I used to think Android had it in the bag as I started seeing them all the time at school and work.. but I just don't know anymore. I would like to see Android win, because it's my personal preference, but I don't see it happening. Honestly, I think Apple's got this one in the bag. When it comes to apps and the user interface, they've already won.
theredvendetta said:
Interesting indeed. I've wondered about this before, specifically Microsoft's future and the 'Andriod vs. iOS' war.
When it comes to Microsoft, I'm just not sure anymore. Sure, they have their hands gripped tightly around the desktop and laptop markets, but seeing this only reaffirms my opinion that Microsoft doesn't have much left going for them. With smartphones and tablets often going for more than an entire desktop computer, and now that phones and tablets truly are grossing more sales than desktops and laptops, Microsoft isn't the giant corporation it used to be. At least, not in comparison to the competition. If they don't get their act together soon, they may start to see profits dwindle. Frankly I'm surprised they haven't tried stronger marketing campaigns for their Windows phones and tablets; I know they exist, but I've never seen one in person and I've never seen an ad for them.
When it comes to Apple vs. Google/Motorola/Samsung/HTC/Nokia/Rim (essentially all mobile phone manufacturers), I've often wondered who will pull out ahead when smartphones continue to rise in sales and popularity. On one hand there is Android, along with it's very large user-base and realistically small developer-base, and on the other is iOS and its even larger user-base, extremely strong fanboy mentality, and its incredibly large developer-base. I used to think Android had it in the bag as I started seeing them all the time at school and work.. but I just don't know anymore. I would like to see Android win, because it's my personal preference, but I don't see it happening. Honestly, I think Apple's got this one in the bag. When it comes to apps and the user interface, they've already won.
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As long as I have an Android tablet and Android phone in my hand I will not agree that iPhone is winning. As of now Android has one thing going for it and that is its humongous user base. Yet it is baffling that it has at best a moderate developer base. I would guess that more devs would dev for this platform. Also, I learned that deving for android is easier as well. Oh well...
The ONLY way Android can win is if Google grows a pair of balls and tells all the manufacturers firmly that there is no way in hell you are allowed to make customizations. All you are doing is ruining the experience without significantly improving user experience and causing additional delays and fragmentation with deploying updates. From now on all of you release AOSP and update the week Google releases source code. Android's Achilles heel is fragmentation. That is why despite the fact that there are more androids than iPhones developers don't prefer it OR get much revenue from it.
So, Google, Grow. Some. Balls!!!
Moreover, I have always had a soft spot for Microsoft. I dunno but it being the underdog I always wanted MS to come sweeping to victory with their Windows phone 7. Frankly it is a very good OS. Many of my friends state that it has one of the smoothest UI. And it is so good that it can run amazingly on a single core device. All WP7 devices are single core but you'll never notice it. It is that good. In fact, I believe it was this CES or may be the last, when MS was cocky and started boasting that if you show us a device that can run smoother and faster than their Nokia Lumia 900 device, they will give you $100 (or may be the phone, I dunno). It was a bet.
Also MS did one more thing right. It had the balls, unlike Google to tell manufacturers that they can't customize WP7 other than the color scheme and some innocent apps/links on the home screen. No theming or skinning. And all WP7 devices get updates promptly, at worst within a month!!! Google, you can learn a thing or two from MS! Unfortunately MS is not really advertizing WP7 as much as they should. They can easily get more market share by appropriately marketing it and boasting its plus points!
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
The reason why Android has so few Devs compared to apple is because apple is one phone with a large portion of the market. If you're a company producing apps, you look at this and think: well, we could code for Apple and get this much market share, our we could code for Android, and then we would have to make sure it's compatible with all 200 different types, screen rezs, screen sizes, etc, to get a slightly larger market share.
In fact, up until about last summer, Google's dev page said to program the code for iPhone first, and then port it to Android, if you were going to do both.
So yeah. Unfortunate, but a fact of life.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium
Very thorough presentation there.
I played around with SoftMaker's office-like app in Beta - quite liked it, but it was never very stable (e.g., it often just wouldn't open) and there was quite a bit of typing lag when using the keyboard. Has anyone stumped up the pretty hefty price for the full release and tested it (particularly the TextMaker element) who would care to comment on its pros and cons? I guess for me, in addition to genuine multi-tasking, having a pretty full office suite is the one thing that may put me off getting a Surface - at least in its first iteration.
dgjl said:
I played around with SoftMaker's office-like app in Beta - quite liked it, but it was never very stable (e.g., it often just wouldn't open) and there was quite a bit of typing lag when using the keyboard. Has anyone stumped up the pretty hefty price for the full release and tested it (particularly the TextMaker element) who would care to comment on its pros and cons? I guess for me, in addition to genuine multi-tasking, having a pretty full office suite is the one thing that may put me off getting a Surface - at least in its first iteration.
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Funny i just came here to make a thread about softmaker office mobile
First off: There is a 30 day test version that you can try out with all features enabled.
I used it since early beta, and i've even written a full 6 pages essay for my final exams with it. There is spelling correction and everything. There is not a single feature that is missing for me. You have to use a seperate app for thesaurus, synonyms and stuff but that doesnt bother me. It seems that they fixed the typing lag issues as well, even when writing longer texts i didnt come across any lags - make sure to enable opengl acceleration in the options.
You can also install any font you like, you just have to put it in the right folder. It reads every file i've come across and displays it correctly. For my essay i had to write it in a premade file that came on a usb stick. No issues at opening it or saving it in the format it came. No display issues or formatting issues.
You can also save your files directly to pdf from the app and the dropbox integration is flawless. In a way it even makes stuff easier than on the pc because everything is integrated.
About the cons.. Well it takes some time until you know what all the buttons do, there is an option where you can arrange the symbols the way you want and there there are explanations on what each symbol does - but thats the only place where they explain it.
Also i didnt find a way to change my standard document. So each time you create a new file you have to set up the font and size before you start typing. Maybe there is an option for that and i just havent found it yet though
Also i checked out the presentation app, IT EVEN SUPPORTS ANIMATIONS! I think its the only mobile app that supports ms office animations. So you can simply create stuff on your pc at home save it to your dropbox and present it via hdmi or vga (adapter needed) out, and you can depend on it that it will display exactly the way you created it at home. Over are the days where you need to carry heavy laptops and bring your power adapter
I can fully recommend it at this point and suggest you try out the trial version.
On a side note i read about rumors that Microsoft is planning on releasing their own office apps for both ios and android later this year (probably november). So for me there is no reason at this point to buy a windows 8 tablet. Office was the last thing i was looking for. The gap is filled - at least for me.
Cheers mate
Damn, I wish I knew this a month ago... So many essays that I've used QuickOffice for. This feels so much nicer, + the animations in Presentations are nice!
clouds5 said:
Funny
On a side note i read about rumors that Microsoft is planning on releasing their own office apps for both ios and android later this year (probably november). So for me there is no reason at this point to buy a windows 8 tablet. Office was the last thing i was looking for. The gap is filled - at least for me.
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Thanks for all the helpful info. Don't you think it would be odd for Microsoft to release the Surface, which most people would buy because of MS Office functionality, and then a couple of weeks later release Office for Android/iOS? (As far as I can see the last 'rumours' of this release were back in May) Still, when my ATP comes back from its 3rd RMA (tomorrow) I'll give the 30 day free trial a go. Hopefully by the end of that we'll know a bit more about whether Office proper is coming to Android.
Kingston Office just got an update... it's awesome now, it was great, but now it is awesome... highly highly recommend this great app
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
bunnybash said:
Kingston Office just got an update... it's awesome now, it was great, but now it is awesome... highly highly recommend this great app
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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I think it's Kingsoft - and yes, the interface looks really good now; if only it had a few more fonts...It's also not nearly as accurate at presenting docs as Softmaker appears to be - though SM's interface is pretty demanding to get your head around at first. I guess all these small Office-esque apps are rather concerned about the upcoming MSOffice app (if it comes) and the Surface. It should certainly encourage some good work from the competitors.