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UPDATE: SOPA HAS BEEN POSTPONED TILL' 2012 (Read here)
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After a bit of research on a bill that could possibly be passed dubbed "SOPA" I wanted to share what I've learned/found, and then get the opinion on the matter from the Vibrant community...
INFO ON SOPA:
You maybe haven't heard of SOPA, it's not like the news is covering it, or in general very much discussed about considering how big of an effect it can have on the world. Well, if you haven't already heard about SOPA then you're going to be in for a very big surprise today. SOPA stands for the Stop Online Piracy Act- Now wait. Stopping piracy? That actually doesn't sound to bad. Pirating a movie for example is stealing, so this bill would be a good thing? No. No. It wouldn't.
SOPA (if passed) would allow for the government to block any website that contains copyrighted material. What do I mean by that? Say some little Bieber fan girl on YouTube posts a download link to a new song of his. Well, that's actually not legal, so YouTube is now in jeopardy of being shutdown. I'm not even being over dramatic, this is a fact. Sites like Facebook, Twitter, even XDA would have to censor their millions users or risk getting shutdown. Although any website, foreign or domestic, big or a small start up, can get shutdown I just want to emphasize that all those very popular sites (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, XDA) are by no means outside of the bills laws.
That's not the end of it though, there is more! SOPA can also ban generic drugs! Maybe to most of us that just means coughing up a buck or two more for real Tylenol instead of buying the cheaper (yet just as effective) Target brand one. Maybe so. But what about people who can't afford that buck or two more? That means people in need who can't afford name brand medicine are completely out of luck...
This bill also goes by the name H.R.3261 and the Protect IP Act.
EDUCATE YOURSELF ON SOPA!Now that I've given you a taste of what SOPA is about, I suggest you go and educate yourself on SOPA. Understand it, maybe even read the full text (link in "Useful Links" section). Then, if you can, spend twenty minutes and watch this video on YouTube about SOPA. It's very informal...
USEFUL LINKS:
(Originally posted by XDA member "jamRwoo")
"Contacting The Congress" - Easily lookup the names/contact information of your Reps/Senators.
SOPA Wikipedia Article - References - These references link to a variety of websites/articles that are both for and against this bill. I would like to personally point out how most of those in support are entities of a political nature, while those against are largely non-political technology-oriented entities.
Full Text of H.R.3261 [PDF] - A relatively "short" 78 pages.
Hearing Information - House Judiciary Committee - This bill is on "the fastrack," meaning its authors are trying to push it through as quickly as possible...This hearing is where the bill began it's journey today (11/16/11).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think SOPA will only cause trouble, contact congress! This website is a great tool at doing such.
____________________________________
Feel free to reply with your opinion on the matter and/or participate in the poll at the top of the post.
this thread is so bias its just too ridiculous to take seriously. you're title itself pushes public opinion towards the censorship route (so I see you edite the title now -_-). Also in the sources you posted it specifically says that sites like youtube will not be held liable if they act promptly to take away the copyrighted material. do I think it's all BS? hells ye, but it doesn't mean they're not wrong. piracy is stealing period, regardless of your philosophical views that music and games should be free. if somebody wants to charge for their product you don't have to buy it, but you shouldn't be stealing it either.
I think the videogame, music and movie industry need a new format to publish their media and need to be more open and fair in terms of pricing because thats whats allowed these peer to peer sharing sites to soar in popularity. people are just fed up with the bull**** prices of subpar products, ie CODMW3 and the fact that it cost 60 bucks while offering nothing new = complete ripoff, while you can get BF3 for less = heaven.
dardani89 said:
this thread is so bias its just too ridiculous to take seriously. you're title itself pushes public opinion towards the censorship route (so I see you edite the title now -_-). Also in the sources you posted it specifically says that sites like youtube will not be held liable if they act promptly to take away the copyrighted material. do I think it's all BS? hells ye, but it doesn't mean they're not wrong. piracy is stealing period, regardless of your philosophical views that music and games should be free. if somebody wants to charge for their product you don't have to buy it, but you shouldn't be stealing it either.
I think the videogame, music and movie industry need a new format to publish their media and need to be more open and fair in terms of pricing because thats whats allowed these peer to peer sharing sites to soar in popularity. people are just fed up with the bull**** prices of subpar products, ie CODMW3 and the fact that it cost 60 bucks while offering nothing new = complete ripoff, while you can get BF3 for less = heaven.
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The mw3 thing is frustrating me >.< mw3 is a great game: a full new campaign, new spec ops missions, a survival mode, 16 new maps and a refresh in terms of weapons etc, as well as countless improvements and fixs... im more tthan happy with my purchase, 60$ was fine...
As for piracy, i agree, high prices isnt an excuse for stealing but assuming that you own rights to text or music has always seems incredibly dumb to me... i write something and suddenly no one can ever write that again without consulting me??? **** no... i say that if you want to sell books or recordings, thats one thing but once it becomes illegal for someone to publicly perform a song because "i thought of it first", theres something really wrong here...
Then theres 1$ for a 4 minute loop of 4 chords and a juvenile melody line and a sung poem about love, loss or "the skeletons in my closet", "this life i regret", "the fingernails in my eyes"...
So what if i claimed rrights to love as aa topic for music.. can i sue all the music that talks about it???
To conclude my rant... if you cant protect it, its not yours; dont try to sell it and then abuse an incredibly idiotic system of law to strong-arm anyone who gets in your way.
Sent from a cell tower to the XDA server to you.
@dardani89
Yes, I changed the title because you were right. It was biased. You do make a good point.
However, YouTube censoring the material is pretty bad in itself. For example if someone makes a video with copyrighted music playing (even in the background) then either one of a few things would happen...
1. The video would be removed
2. The audio would be removed
3. The user will get banned
But if YouTube doesn't take action then it's at risk of being shutdown.
Also, it's not that part of the bill that truly bothers me. It's the part about generic drugs. Because in my opinion, that where it crosses the line.
Sent from my SGH-T959 (Samsung Vibrant)
sopa and protect ip are retarded. it's just a bunch of inept politicians making ineffective policy about something they don't understand.
Hell, you didn't even cover the fact that if passed, it could alter the foundation of how the internet works for americans. other countries are threatening to actually cut us off if these bills pass into law(they are actually two separate proposals, looks like big business isnt taking any chances).
Also as far as I know or have read the offending sites are reachable you just have to find out thier ip address and type it in manually(or alter your hosts file)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1w6GtwOvnWM
jamesd86 said:
Hell, you didn't even cover the fact that if passed, it could alter the foundation of how the internet works for americans. other countries are threatening to actually cut us off if these bills pass into law(they are actually two separate proposals, looks like big business isnt taking any chances).
Also as far as I know or have read the offending sites are reachable you just have to find out thier ip address and type it in manually(or alter your hosts file)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
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There's a video that talks briefly about the bill changing the internet's foundation and reaching the site by knowing it's IP address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLYgs0xMDm0
xriderx66 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1w6GtwOvnWM
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Watched that video earlier today. Very catchy song.
I havent read the part about this bill banning generic drugs but if thats the case then I highly doubt it will pass with that text included. Generic drugs are one of the facets of the medical system that keeps medicare prices from getting higher than they would be. Imagine the government paying brand name prices for millions of seniors on blood pressure/heart/cholesterol medication, it would be so absurd that it would automatically bankrupt the government with an insane automatic increase of healthcare spending. remember that entitlement programs rise in cost due to self regulating formulas, not through legislators. So with that text in the bill and the budgetary mindset right now, I doubt any serious legislator would support a ban in generic drugs. Let alone the popular opinion that would rip it apart in a matter of days.
As Nilay Patel said on TWIT: It's a terrible solution to a real problem.
Down with SOPA
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
So sad to what this forum has become. This used to be where everyone posted their work sharing or not, so others could benefit from it....closed or enclosed. A place to make our machines the best they can be, to the point where if you mentioned this name or that name or mention this mod or that mod you will get banned. Simply terrible!!!! Now if you read my posts and see I hardly say anything and ive been here for a while. I've gotten to the point that this site is not much fun anymore. Example.... If a bunch of people want to post there home screens on a dev page, let them post it. It's tribute to the dev and no harm is done. Plus others can learn by actually learn by seeing there home screens. I'm just trying to bring back the actualization why we are all here in the first place....to learn... To contribute... To benefit, and make our pieces of machinery the best they cab be.
So in all, this community needs to be best and a top notch better then the rest. Keep pushing mods away and we will become second to none. I got enough off my chest. Good night...... Good fight.
Love all....
Sent from my PG86100 xda app-developers app
Comments withdrawn
I agree it's sad we have to watch what we say and can't share all of our work because of petty drama. But it is what it is. Kinda feels like the Apple/Google patent trolling. Just wish people would be mature and let better things improve our experience for everyone, but I know that's a utopia and won't happen. I also know there's more to it than that. I don't want to add fuel... But yes, I do wish that whole thing played out differently.
But I don't think home screen posts should flood a dev thread. It's annoying as it is having to sift through dozens of the same questions that are answered in the op. When I look at a rom or kernel or mod thread, I want to know the progress, the bugs, user experiences, and the direction of development. Not how people are laying out their widgets and apps. Not that so and so is drunk and wants to say what's up, although sometimes those can be entertaining. Not little chit chat of members catching up because they hadn't talked in a while. It's going to happen regardless of what I want... But I can dream. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting these things be prohibited... Just sharing my views on the matter.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
Just don't contribute here, simple as that.
There are other places with a lot of people you already know.
What I love most is the fact that everyone wants to complain about rules, how much drama there is and how much fun they aren't having.
You want to know how much "fun" I've had in the past 8 months? No you don't because you don't really care.
Devs decide how much off topic to allow in their threads. If the dev wants the thread to be strictly development that's where it stands. We have share your home screen threads so you can show off your home screen. Not all developers want to see it.
Drama concerning users that aren't on this site. I personally tried to get everyone cooperating before all of the drama happened. We have rules, just like other sites have rules. This Site and that dev parted ways, and came to an agreement that his stuff was not to be used or linked here and his name was to be erased from the site and not to be mentioned. Because his work is not to be used here and we want no ties with him that makes his kernels warez.
Everything was fine for about a month, but I guess that was before source was released. There are other kernel devs out there but they won't post because the users in this forum bring so much trash into threads. I know at least 2 other people in this forum that are working on kernels, none of which have any threads for their work.
But does it matter? No. Because everyone is stuck on the second coming of a dev that won't/can't come back.
pstevep said:
What I love most is the fact that everyone wants to complain about rules, how much drama there is and how much fun they aren't having.
You want to know how much "fun" I've had in the past 8 months? No you don't because you don't really care.
Devs decide how much off topic to allow in their threads. If the dev wants the thread to be strictly development that's where it stands. We have share your home screen threads so you can show off your home screen. Not all developers want to see it.
Drama concerning users that aren't on this site. I personally tried to get everyone cooperating before all of the drama happened. We have rules, just like other sites have rules. This Site and that dev parted ways, and came to an agreement that his stuff was not to be used or linked here and his name was to be erased from the site and not to be mentioned. Because his work is not to be used here and we want no ties with him that makes his kernels warez.
Everything was fine for about a month, but I guess that was before source was released. There are other kernel devs out there but they won't post because the users in this forum bring so much trash into threads. I know at least 2 other people in this forum that are working on kernels, none of which have any threads for their work.
But does it matter? No. Because everyone is stuck on the second coming of a dev that won't/can't come back.
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Again, what about the ILLEGAL PRL, and WiFi tether? Is that not warez?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
Volumes said:
Again, what about the ILLEGAL PRL, and WiFi tether? Is that not warez?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
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We can't control what Prl you flash. It's also not the greatest idea in general. The site has numerous carriers, if you choose to flash something that is not meant for your carrier that's up to you.
All carriers have things in place to stop people from tethering and using other prls. They can stop it if they want. If they hit us with a c&d we would block it all, however wifi tether apps are on the play store. Kernels are governed by a specific law the gpl, we require that is complied with. Technically you can say that rooting your phone shouldn't be allowed since the carriers don't want that either. Wrong battle to fight.
pstevep said:
What I love most is the fact that everyone wants to complain about rules, how much drama there is and how much fun they aren't having.
You want to know how much "fun" I've had in the past 8 months? No you don't because you don't really care.
Devs decide how much off topic to allow in their threads. If the dev wants the thread to be strictly development that's where it stands. We have share your home screen threads so you can show off your home screen. Not all developers want to see it.
Drama concerning users that aren't on this site. I personally tried to get everyone cooperating before all of the drama happened. We have rules, just like other sites have rules. This Site and that dev parted ways, and came to an agreement that his stuff was not to be used or linked here and his name was to be erased from the site and not to be mentioned. Because his work is not to be used here and we want no ties with him that makes his kernels warez.
Everything was fine for about a month, but I guess that was before source was released. There are other kernel devs out there but they won't post because the users in this forum bring so much trash into threads. I know at least 2 other people in this forum that are working on kernels, none of which have any threads for their work.
But does it matter? No. Because everyone is stuck on the second coming of a dev that won't/can't come back.
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Just wanted to thank you for this explaination of why they are considered "warez" on XDA. It's not because they are actually "warez" or illegal as some seem unwilling to stop publically claiming, but rather because XDA and he have mutually decided that they are not for XDA. Altough I don't understand why if something is found elsewhere that works for some it cannot be discussed. I understand not linking, but discussing. Altough, I guess it just leads to flame wars and is best not talked about at all. Thanks pstevep!
pstevep said:
We can't control what Prl you flash. It's also not the greatest idea in general. The site has numerous carriers, if you choose to flash something that is not meant for your carrier that's up to you.
All carriers have things in place to stop people from tethering and using other prls. They can stop it if they want. If they hit us with a c&d we would block it all, however wifi tether apps are on the play store. Kernels are governed by a specific law the gpl, we require that is complied with. Technically you can say that rooting your phone shouldn't be allowed since the carriers don't want that either. Wrong battle to fight.
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Click to collapse
But you can supply it, so its illegal to do drugs but, you supply them?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Volumes said:
But you can supply it, so its illegal to do drugs but, you supply them?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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It's not illegal. The things you mentioned are not illegal.
Yeah without all the drama here I've become bored with this place.
Volumes said:
But you can supply it, so its illegal to do drugs but, you supply them?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Man...there is no LAW that says that rooting your phone or using wireless tether is against the law. GPL is based on copyright law so it is a law that has to be followed.
Rooting your phone and using wireless tether might be against your contract with your carrier but there is NO LAW that says you cannot do it.
I've changed my signature to reflect my feelings on the subject
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why can't people just understand:
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what is the point of flaming mods for doing what they need to do to keep order?
Lead by example
I'm sorry, but your definition is incorrect
— n
informal illegally copied computer software which has had its protection codes de-activated (Dictionary DOT com)
You're upsetting people by using terminology that already exists to wrongfully describe someone. You CAN NOT change the dictionary. You CAN NOT say that someone who is black that is actually white
you want this to stop. stop saying things like that. When a cop faces a near rioting crowd, the last thing he should do is beat one with his flashlight to push everyone over the limit and start rioting. your problem may not have started with the mods, but it's being perpetuated by their poor handling. *including this quoted post*
you must conduct yourself in an acceptable manner even in the face of adversity. If you're a moderator, you should be held to a higher standard and people all around the web complain about XDA's moderators the most ~ wonder why.
pstevep said:
What I love most is the fact that everyone wants to complain about rules, how much drama there is and how much fun they aren't having.
You want to know how much "fun" I've had in the past 8 months? No you don't because you don't really care.
Devs decide how much off topic to allow in their threads. If the dev wants the thread to be strictly development that's where it stands. We have share your home screen threads so you can show off your home screen. Not all developers want to see it.
Drama concerning users that aren't on this site. I personally tried to get everyone cooperating before all of the drama happened. We have rules, just like other sites have rules. This Site and that dev parted ways, and came to an agreement that his stuff was not to be used or linked here and his name was to be erased from the site and not to be mentioned. Because his work is not to be used here and we want no ties with him that makes his kernels warez.
Everything was fine for about a month, but I guess that was before source was released. There are other kernel devs out there but they won't post because the users in this forum bring so much trash into threads. I know at least 2 other people in this forum that are working on kernels, none of which have any threads for their work.
But does it matter? No. Because everyone is stuck on the second coming of a dev that won't/can't come back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FIR3STARTER said:
I'm sorry, but your definition is incorrect
— n
informal illegally copied computer software which has had its protection codes de-activated (Dictionary DOT com)
You're upsetting people by using terminology that already exists to wrongfully describe someone. You CAN NOT change the dictionary. You CAN NOT say that someone who is black that is actually white
you want this to stop. stop saying things like that. When a cop faces a near rioting crowd, the last thing he should do is beat one with his flashlight to push everyone over the limit and start rioting. your problem may not have started with the mods, but it's being perpetuated by their poor handling. *including this quoted post*
you must conduct yourself in an acceptable manner even in the face of adversity. If you're a moderator, you should be held to a higher standard and people all around the web complain about XDA's moderators the most ~ wonder why.
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Click to collapse
That almost made a point.
Except.
It states that it's warez, which is slang (as notated in your definition by "informal"). And in this instance means not allowed on this site.
Really? You don't want to argue semantics with me, it's not worth it to either of us.
This site is fine. It's the users ruining it. Not reading rules, not abiding by them or arguing them in inappropriate ways (this thread for example) . I've been to plenty of sub forums in this site where things are fine.
I think everyone is expecting this to be picture perfect when it never will be. There will always be someone doing something they shouldn't and whether people do things they should or should not do in response to it determines how these forums are viewed. :beer:
Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 2
I really hate to jump into this topic as I have been trying really hard to ignore it but it just keeps popping up. So here is my 2 cents.
XDA-Developers is a PRIVATELY OWNED Site. The rules they have or want to impose on people that use this site are up to them. When they make a decision to enforce a rule, good or bad, It stands.
From all my years of browsing forums, One thing stands out among all comunities.
That people think this little corner of the internet is a Democracy.
It is in fact not, It is more of an Autocracy.
To all you homeowners out there or people that can relate to owning property or personal space, How would you feel if someone marched onto your property and tried to tell you what to do, how to do it, and what rules you should have on YOUR property? That wouldn't fly im sure.
The government tells you what you can or cant do with your property, you make decisions about your property as long as its legal and the government tells you its OK.
Joe Crackhead walking by on the street has no right or ability to tell you what to do with any aspect of your property, nor force his opinion on you on what he "thinks" is the best way.
Bottom line is this is the house of XDA, and the owner says what goes.
So please, for the love of god just follow whatever rules they impose, no matter how stupid you may think they are, and go about your daily business. In all actuality you have absolutely no right to ***** and moan about anything the higher ups have to say about squat.
Let the rants and pissing and moaning stop. If you don't like what is going on take it to the source, feel free to contact the owner of the site or the admins directly with your issues. Hell, start a damn petition. But whatever you do just do it off of their private property that they allow you to use before they revoke that "right" you think you have.
IRL you cant even protest on private property, why does anyone think this is any different?
This isn't aimed at anyone or any group specific, Its just aimed at the general population that thinks this is some kind of public property owned by all.
Leave the MODS out of it as they are just following orders from people that tell them what to do. They are in a lose lose situation as if they don't do what they are told they catch **** from the owner/admins and if they do they catch **** from the community.
Do I think the MODS sometimes should handle things in a different way? YES
But guess what? They DON'T have to, and thats not up to me or you to even have an opinion about.
Believe me the people they are answering to are not the community. They explain things that happen out of courtesy.
Get it out of your heads that any of you have any "rights" on this or any other message board and
please, please, please
LET IT DIE
As for the warez argument, warez is software that is shared without permission.
Im not going to get into the "legal or illegal" argument. See my explanation on this website is Privately owned.
If the government says its not illegal great,
If XDA says its illegal then it is illegal on this board.
Government > XDA > You
that's the decision making process here on XDA, simplified of coarse
XDA says no sharing of that software
whats his name says no sharing of that software on XDA
They agree, why cant you?
This is the first and will be the last time you will hear from me about this topic, It is common sense that you all should know.
Wow somebody ban this guy
I don't say a whole lot on these forums, but I'm in them everyday. I've been on xda far longer than most that post in this, or any other thread. I have to say the flaming has gotten to epic proportions, and it was inevitable that the ban hammer was going to fall sooner or later. Xda used to be the "go-to" site for all devs to show their craft. The adoption rate of android has finally caught up with this place and the maturity has plummeted, thus creating a graveyard of devs in its wake. People complain about the mods in the same manner they complain about the police. Without the police, the "kids" would run this place even worse and drive all the talent away. Posting in here shouldn't be a e-pene measuring contest, it should be for the reason we are all here, to live on the cutting edge of software and squeeze everything we can out of our phones.
Boom goes the dynamite
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
th3raid0r said:
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
dr_drache said:
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that is your assumption. I never even once demanded for more. I feel that the actions that have been taken are one of the sloppiest examples of open source development. I am trying to be a reasonable voice. I am trying to keep development going despite our recent setbacks.
I think that at the very least, devs should provide the sources so that development may continue after they decide to leave. Otherwise we loose too much progress.
th3raid0r said:
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
th3raid0r said:
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Dude, we don't another thread about this lol. I'm not here to harp on this fact, but I'm glad I dumped my DNA while I still had the chance. For some extremely odd reason, people don't know how to act in HTC threads. I definitely don't miss all of this drama from when I had my Rezound.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
th3raid0r said:
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal. I don't know what went down with you guys over there but maybe you can speak with the powers that be and work out an amicable solution.
jcase said:
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Sigh.
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
orangechoochoo said:
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
dsb9938 said:
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I totally understand all of that.
I have made some tweaks myself, but I don't publish them because I know they don't have much application outside of myself.
I do know where you are at, I work at a large legal software company as a QA Analyst. I KNOW the daily grind on this.
The harrasment won't always go away. Hell, i get it here in a large company. It can be mitigated by a few things. For example you can use a smaller community.
You don't have to deal with these things at all, but if you leave on such bad terms without a way for someone to pick up where you left off, it doesn't leave a good impression on the rest of the community.
The fact that you don't know code makes this all the more impressive. You are a fantastic problem solver, it shows, maybe we can find some way to lessen the blow for you and yet continue public development?
th3raid0r said:
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
solutions anyone?
dsb, jcase I have to side with you guys entirely. I love your work and I appreciate it completely. I am grateful for you guys, were it not for you guys and other people like you I would not get to 'OCD' on my droid all hours of the night like I do. I have learned much. I am a machinist in a shipyard, I can understand fine tuning and perfection in your work.
Unfortunately most of today's societal behaviors even in grown adults are dysfunctional at best. I have been on the internet since it's inception to the public eye and all I can say is that arguing and bickering that happens on the internet is absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for you guys and embarrassed for the "others."
I have to agree with what works though. My daughter, when she was young would throw a temper tantrum and slam her bedroom door, so I removed the door.
orangechoochoo said:
Sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
orangechoochoo said:
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its almost night here, and Jack Daniels is calling me, all after reading all that posts and some chating on IRC... Never ever see such outcome because of some not polite posts. I have degree in International Relations and first thing i 've learned - don't say what you think, say what you need to say and SMILE )))) We all just people. I got my family. Wife, kids... But i spend time here not only because of kernels, ROMs and all that stuff. But because of great community. It looks like that 1 person can spoil all that great atmosphere.... :silly:
jcase said:
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said you make a living off the income generated from donations. I know it is mostly small, but the funds do help most people. It is also nice to know that you mean something to a few individuals.
Also, I work at a legal software company as a QA Analyst officially, but I do mostly QA Engineering work for no recognition, no additional pay, and the occasional bit of harassment when someone doesn't understand my methods. I really DO get the environment.
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
th3raid0r said:
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think anybody owes "the community" a way to recover?
D
.
It would appear that Sammy is taking a turn for the iWorse. or at least playing with the idea.
if this becomes a common practice for Samsung, I will stop purchasing their products. this kind of behavior usually drives away the tech-set (read as: us). who in turn do not encourage others to use the product.I can think of several dozen folk who turn to me for tech advice, as I would hazard is true for many people here. And in turn, those people recommend things to their friends, etc. I won't be able to recommend a product with this stance on third party products.
http://www.sammobile.com/2014/01/22...-working-on-galaxy-note-3-post-kitkat-update/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...t-on-the-note-3-but-there-is-a-root-solution/
discuss?
(this is also being discussed here.)
Eh, doesn't matter to me. But if I were Samsung I probably wouldn't care about other manufacturers taking away from my profits either.
kingdazy said:
It would appear that Sammy is taking a turn for the iWorse. or at least playing with the idea.
if this becomes a common practice for Samsung, I will stop purchasing their products. this kind of behavior usually drives away the tech-set (read as: us). who in turn do not encourage others to use the product.I can think of several dozen folk who turn to me for tech advice, as I would hazard is true for many people here. And in turn, those people recommend things to their friends, etc. I won't be able to recommend a product with this stance on third party products.
http://www.sammobile.com/2014/01/22...-working-on-galaxy-note-3-post-kitkat-update/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...t-on-the-note-3-but-there-is-a-root-solution/
discuss?
(this is also being discussed here.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great read and thread, bro. At the moment this appears to be firmly ensconced in the realm of induction, which I like a lot. You could get excellent dialog or real crazy comments. I'm hoping we get a lot of both.
First, articles like these are fine examples of how some horrible and good ideas get vetted. Marketing folks love it, as it provides a crowdsourced focus group and costs nothing. You simply leak an idea through various channels, deny everything, and enjoy the harvest.
I personally like the idea of mobile accessories having to pass at least a minimal standard in order to get Sammy certified, but I loathe the idea of gimping it if it doesn't attain said standards. That retains the right of the consumer to purchase what he or she wants, and yet also gives (perhaps) some confidence to those wanting the certified accessory. If they go the certified and uncertified both work route, and it gins up sales for Sammy, good for them. There is plenty of precedent (those Intel Inside campaigns pretty much buried any real competition when they ran in the late 90s onward).
But I have to agree that, if this is true (it does have the appearance of plausibility), it royally sucks. Even if one 3rd-party charger or battery gets crippled, I have to say one must care, even if those same 3rd-party items aren't accessories you'd purchase, because there could be accessories in the pipeline that you would buy and also will get borked.
This most definitely is something that deserves watching. But it's still a tad early to be throwing them under the bus.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
I had an E4GT a few years ago, and loved it. When my contract was up I had a tough decision to make, Note 2 or iPhone 5. I went with the iPhone. Reason being, my computers are Mac, and I have an Apple Tv. The integration was flawless, it was so nice to have everything work together the way it should. Look where I am now. No more iPhone. No matter how perfect the symmetry, life is about choices. Take away my options and I will go elsewhere, not just because I like to tinker with things but, because if I am going to spend the money that I earn on a device then it should be up to me and me alone how I use that device. I don't know, maybe I'm still just a rebel at heart but, I don't want to be part of the Stepford clan.
Well at least now that it has come out that it was a bug/mistake, I know that I will sleep a bit better. I would have hated seeing Samsung going the Apple route...
It will only be Samsung and Apple that will run the "show" so they can do what ever they want and we cant do a damn thing about it..
Lokifish: PayPal account was frozen due to multiple refund requests in a short period. I even had mine frozen at one point because of three refund request for donations made through xda in a week. PayPal froze my account, demanded that I issue refunds using another funding source even though there was more than enough money in the account. PayPal also took a month to give the money to those that requested the refunds and then took six months to let me have access to the near $500 in the account. During the six months they also blocked any incoming donations. In short, PayPal operates outside of FTC guidelines and could care less about the customer or vendor as long as they get paid.
As far as the rest of your noise. It's not a retail product where there are tens of thousands of these things sitting in a warehouse. They are hand assembled by a company with less than 10 employees that also gets hundreds of emails a day, packs, labels and is tagged on hundreds of social media post a day.
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Not a retail product, really, just like it wasnt a real backers product! I was never a backer, I was a consumer that pre-ordered with a promised December shipment that changed to mid Jan and now March with no reply(70 days since email and no reply) and a cancelled Paypal order with no refund!
Congrats Le Fish disguising yourself as a dev!
Buyers be aware that Omate and Rocki have split and Rocki have all the backers funds not to mention the pre-orders as well, Omate is broke and have lied their last lie!
Le Fish, protect Omate all you want, it wont save them and it wont stop consumers from receiving chargebacks from a scam company!
I have been a supporter of XDA since 06 and I have never seen such a scam as this I now urge XDA to shut down this scam and part themselves from this fraud! I know this is a scam and you Le Fish should be reported, reported!
Please feel free to report me to the moderators and admins and whomever else you please. In fact, I insist. I would also like what ever comes of this to be posted in this thread and stickied for all to see.
It's obvious that homer285 doesn't really contribute to XDA since they have been a member for 8 years and only have a thanks rating of 23. This posting reflects that lack of a contribution.
Lokifish Marz is not Laurent Le Pen.
Research before you post in the future.
I don't think I need to contribute to this topic. Everyone else said enough.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hey Homer...
U MAD BRO?
Mr Le Martian Fish... If I send you my ts, would you sign it as LeFish? I swear I'll put it on a glass case and save it for eternity..... This is just epic!
Some people deserve a high five.... In the head.... With a chair...!
WoooW man - you should really find a hobby...
This isn't funny - it's sad...
Why do you even connect XDA and Omate?
XDA is devs forum/portal and there's no connection between them.
Omate TS is out for many users and they have evey right to develop and share apps and infos.
I'm October dev too, so what?!
First, read KS "rules" - there's no 100% ETA, nothing is 100% is KS, that's funding platform and TS isn't first device that has/had some problems...
And the funniest part is - you find time to write that silly post but haven't had decency to read who is who?!
But hey, at least - it's funny, we don't have to read garfield today
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Isnt it just, because its all about the thanks! Isnt it funny that the thanks button only started a few years ago(Ive been dormant long before that), before that i was partly responsible for bringing a custom ROM to XDA O2 Atom in 06 and HTC HD2 ROM dev, from which I received donations that were substantial, not that I wanted the donations, never-the-less I gave back to XDA and I gave back to devs, ask our most distinguished dev!
.
I have started this thread not to troll but to make other non suspecting users aware of the scam that is Omate and Rocki, believe it or not it is a scam!
I dont even care about the people trying to protect the scam AS ABOVE, I am not going to fall into your trap of troll retaliation, since you are!
Facts are facts and thats life, you replied and now lets let the forum consider what is right.
Cheers
Lokifish Marz said:
Please feel free to report me to the moderators and admins and whomever else you please. In fact, I insist. I would also like what ever comes of this to be posted in this thread and stickied for all to see.
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I did report you, however, I dont think you need more exposure in this section, every second post/thread is yours and whilst I think on one hand, youre a great help, very informative, on the other hand, to every negative post you are fast to protect Omate, even in FB G+ etc you are very fast to protect Omate no-matter-what! Sorry dude as much as I want to think you are just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company' I wasnt born yesterday and neither were the XDA community!
Just get out, before I report you and all your work ends up meaning nothing. I know Laurent, and I know Loki, and they aren't the same person.
The only thing xda is asking at this point is why someone with your "tenure" would throw it away in favor of acting like a stupid child.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
homer285 said:
I have started this thread not to troll but to make other non suspecting users aware of the scam that is Omate and Rocki, believe it or not it is a scam!
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Oh? Is that why in the originating post you're mostly just accusing Lokifish of being Laurent Le Pen? You're attacking a freelance dev, and for what, because Omate shat in your Wheaties? Wow, I know people talk about first world problems, but this takes the cake. I suggest you try going outside sometime, there are WAY worse things in the world then a dev wanting to improve a watch he likes.
So you bought a pre-order from a company you found on kickstarter that was at the time clearly struggling with development and schedules, and you want a medal from us all?
By the time pre-orders opened, wasn't it already clearly known that Omate were part of Umeox (so you knew exactly what you were buying into). And you still jumped in?
This is the most amusing part of the story so far.
homer285 said:
I did report you, however, I dont think you need more exposure in this section, every second post/thread is yours and whilst I think on one hand, youre a great help, very informative, on the other hand, to every negative post you are fast to protect Omate, even in FB G+ etc you are very fast to protect Omate no-matter-what! Sorry dude as much as I want to think you are just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company' I wasnt born yesterday and neither were the XDA community!
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"Le Fish" has no vested financial interest in Omate. I know this to be a fact.
He really is as you say: "just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company'", his only perk being that he was given a watch for development purposes.
And no, I am not part of this "conspiracy" lmao. I have an Omate because I was a KS backer and that is all.
While this has been entertaining, I think it's time to slow your roll on the accusations, because most of what you imply is not based on truth.
For the record - Lokifish Mars is NOT Laurent Le Pen. I know this to be a fact.
I'm going to leave this thread open because maybe some productive discussion may end up out of it. If that turns out a mistake, I will reverse this decision and shut it down.
Have a great day!
Thank you. I did not really feel the need to wade through the Omate employee/troll/fanboy/hater stupidity again. My shrink already gets enough money as it is. :good:
Thanks for not closing thread, maybe I have been hasty in accusations, however, I still stand by my posts, most of what I wrote is fact. No apologies to anyone offended or otherwise, seems arrogant yes, no, it isn't.
Those who have been taken for a ride like myself need to stand up and express their distaste in a less than, OK experience with the fore mentioned and aforementioned company.
Today I was finally replied to by, no not Omate, but Rocki, whom I contacted after nearly 60 days of no reply of 3 emails(politely)to Omate for a refund!
Rocki's reply was patronizing if not belittling to say the least, using ridiculous font size differences within one sentence that made it hard to read and seemed as though they weren't serious in their response. I have already started process for a charge-back from CC company, however I wanted to open this thread to warn others of these terrible business ethics in a hope no more ppl would be scammed!
Im embarrassed to have trolled up an XDA founder(I love fishing, seriously in real life I love it, I dont mean founder is a troll, nor do I mean I am trolling) I have said my piece and peace.
You got a reply about refunding your Omate TrueSmart kickstarter pledge...from Rocki ?
Was it from Cecelia by chance ? I have never been sure if she works or worked for Omate or Rocki or both.
Please share as much of the email's contents as you feel appropriate. I hope you either get your refund soon or your TrueSmart. If you get your watch, don't feed it after midnight !
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Ok, just making sure I got this straight.
The original post is basically accusing a dev of being a CEO of a company in a form of a personal attack
The hidden message in that post is to watch out for the company
That message is in fact a horse that's been beaten to death in practically every avenue (Facebook, G+, Here on XDA, Omate Kickstarter, and in the Omate forums). So, in other words, the people being warned were curious enough to come to xda but ignore every other avenue of information regarding the watch, including other posts on XDA. Furthermore, instead of having a clear topic title like "WARNING blah blah", it's called "awesome watch"
Yet this is to warn...I think I'm missing something. Must be good drugs.
@ Homer: although I do understand you are frustrated with Omate, I hope you realized by now you were wrong in your accusations about Loki. I can say with certainty that you haven't been following these threads for the last 3+ months, otherwise you would have known Loki doesn't hide under his avatar, had his real name revealed on a few occasions, and I even remember he posted a picture of some smartwatch package he received with a full disclosure of his mailing address. I don't know where the original quote in your 1st post came from, but it sounds like PM exchange with some personal info (reference to Loki's paypal account) where you should have used a better judgment regarding what to reveal.
You want to voice your dissatisfaction with a company, this is a free forum and you have every right to share your opinion. But attacking one of the members who put so much work into this project and who has been nothing but a help to everyone in here - I insist that you DO owe him an apology. I don't care if you want to post it here or send him a PM, but do the right thing man. If you have beef with Omate, take it up with them, but a freelance developer and a father of newborn baby who spent so much of his time working on the device because he wants to help others, doesn't deserve this crap.
A blind man and his guide dog enter a bar and find their way to a barstool. After ordering a drink, and sitting there for a while, the blind guy yells to the bartender,
"Hey, you wanna hear a blonde joke ?"
The bar immediately becomes absolutely quiet. In a husky, deep voice, the woman next to him says,
"Before you tell that joke, you should know something.The bartender is blonde, the bouncer is blonde, and I'm a 6' tall, 200 lb.blonde with a black belt in karate. What's more, the woman sitting next to me is blonde and she's a weight lifter. The lady to your right is a blonde, and she's a wrestler. Think about it seriously, Mister. You still wanna tell that joke?"
The blind guy says, "Nah, not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times."
Thread closed!
homer285 said:
A blind man and his guide dog enter a bar and find their way to a barstool. After ordering a drink, and sitting there for a while, the blind guy yells to the bartender,
"Hey, you wanna hear a blonde joke ?"
The bar immediately becomes absolutely quiet. In a husky, deep voice, the woman next to him says,
"Before you tell that joke, you should know something.The bartender is blonde, the bouncer is blonde, and I'm a 6' tall, 200 lb.blonde with a black belt in karate. What's more, the woman sitting next to me is blonde and she's a weight lifter. The lady to your right is a blonde, and she's a wrestler. Think about it seriously, Mister. You still wanna tell that joke?"
The blind guy says, "Nah, not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times."
Thread closed!
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You forgot to add that "his" guide dog is in your avatar picture
Btw, I was made aware that PP quote came from another public post by Loki, another example that guy has nothing to hide...
After 3 months I have finally got a response and refund, however, with currency exchange I have lost money and that is unacceptable!
If you have issues with Omate then I strongly recommend you contact not Omate but Rocki, they were instantly helpful and got the refund done in days.