So after the announcements today at Google I/O 2012 about Jellybean, I'm curious to know the differences of this "Butter" approach on Jellybean (Android 4.1) vs Linaro improvements of Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0.4)...
this should just be an open discussion about the two and the techniques used to make both of them faster... i've ran a few ROMs with a version of the Linaro toolchain and it does seem a bit smoother than the stock version of that same ROM...
Not much online about "Butter" yet... but here's a video of Linaro in case you missed the memo on that one...
Maybe the project Butter is only the integration of Linaro
Heronger said:
Maybe the project Butter is only the integration of Linaro
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I think in the same way!
And Google will not waste time when they knows the existence of Android Linaro.
Nori_Wave said:
I think in the same way!
And Google will not waste time when they knows the existence of Android Linaro.
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This maybe right but they would need to fix it and that maybe why they renamed it.
this is something to research, i hope the linaro dudes are rewarded in some manner.
i'm runnning a JB rom and it has a lot of new features, but most important (and most difficult I'd think) is the awesome performance boost.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/106075758531242552855/posts/PgzJLfDB8sg
BAD_BOY_KIEV said:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/106075758531242552855/posts/PgzJLfDB8sg
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Great read if you haven't read it yet... so he's basically saying that 4.1 WITH some additional linaro tweaks could run even faster... that's insane to think considering how blazingly fast jb already is... thoughts on that?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
I am looking into purchasing the SGP 4.2 as a means for very portable entertainment. I had the 4.0 and loved it - I must say I miss it a lot, haha. It went everywhere with me. I am loving the new look of the 4.2 version and would like to know if any of you are using this version and what your thoughts are. Aside from looks and what appears to be a slightly lower resolution camera, are there any major differences as far as performance could be concerned?
Luna_Sky said:
I am looking into purchasing the SGP 4.2 as a means for very portable entertainment. I had the 4.0 and loved it - I must say I miss it a lot, haha. It went everywhere with me. I am loving the new look of the 4.2 version and would like to know if any of you are using this version and what your thoughts are. Aside from looks and what appears to be a slightly lower resolution camera, are there any major differences as far as performance could be concerned?
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Go to the all in one thread found here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1720457 and you'll find all the spec vs spec differencces. Stock vs Stock it's a toss up. On quadrant the 4.2 has between a score 1700-1800 where as the 4.0 has a score between 1200-1300. This is probably because they fixed the I/O performance on the 4.2 or used .ext4. On my rom and kernel I use .ext4 and without overclocking I got between 2100-2200. On Antutu however, it flips the 4.2 scores between 2600-2800 and the 4.0 scores between 2900-3100. I believe that the 4.2 is also currently awaiting to be rooted so there are no custom roms yet where as the 4.0 some.
obscuresword said:
Go to the all in one thread found here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1720457 and you'll find all the spec vs spec differencces. Stock vs Stock it's a toss up. On quadrant the 4.2 has between a score 1700-1800 where as the 4.0 has a score between 1200-1300. This is probably because they fixed the I/O performance on the 4.2 or used .ext4. On my rom and kernel I use .ext4 and without overclocking I got between 2100-2200. On Antutu however, it flips the 4.2 scores between 2600-2800 and the 4.0 scores between 2900-3100. I believe that the 4.2 is also currently awaiting to be rooted so there are no custom roms yet where as the 4.0 some.
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Thanks for sharing the link! Hope I didn't post something that was out of place. Just looking for reviews from anyone that has the 4.2 - their thoughts on it and the performance. Have been seeing some 'not so great' talk from people that have it and the complete opposite, lol. Thanks again
Luna_Sky said:
Thanks for sharing the link! Hope I didn't post something that was out of place. Just looking for reviews from anyone that has the 4.2 - their thoughts on it and the performance. Have been seeing some 'not so great' talk from people that have it and the complete opposite, lol. Thanks again
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Click to collapse
You posted in the correct place. For reviews I go to youtube. Here's some if you haven't seen them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2oJpF9H25Y , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLnXUKvNss, and the review that I think best captures the 3.6 and 4.2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu3p1b74--o ( suggest subscribing to her because she makes long and detailed reviews most are 10-20 minutes long lol)
**DISCLAIMERS**
This thread has no intention of attempting to complain, diminish, degrade, or criticize any developers on this forum or any of their work, as all of us are nothing but grateful for the amount of free, altruistic, and superior quality code that they provide us with. :good:
This thread has no intention of trying to reiterate the content of the "Butery Smoothness" thread found at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1814010 nor to define what "Buttery Smoothness" is, as the previous thread defines it well enough already through the posts and insight of multiple users.
This thread has been created with full knowledge and consideration of the alpha development stage that Android 4.1.1 is currently in and all content discussed in this thread is stated with regard to said knowledge and should only be perceived as an attempt to contribute to at least one of multiple bug fixes to further improve the state of Android 4.1.1 on the SGH-i717 for the good of all users
Purpose
The purpose of this thread is to solve the perceived lack of graphical smoothness and fluidity inside of Android 4.1.1 (Jelly Bean) on the SGH-i717 which has been noticed and reported by many users in multiple ROM's through the collaboration of information, ideas, and solutions between all users and developers.
Background
Many users have reported a significant lack of graphical performance in multiple Jelly Bean ROM's for the SGH-i717 in various scenarios such as home screen navigation, UI animations, and in-app scrolling where there is not only a user-noticeable drop in performance but a quantifiable drop in frame-rate. With Google's Project Butter being a highlight of Jelly Bean, the lack of smoothness in its current state for our device brings not only dismay but logical confusion as other, older devices with lower specifications (such as the Galaxy Nexus for example) perform better graphically than the SGH-i717 with higher specifications. The higher graphical performance in the older Ice Cream Sandwich indicates that the highlighted performance issue in Jelly Bean is not related to hardware incapability but to software utilization of the hardware.
I want to leave as little of my insight in this thread as possible because I want to hear from other users but I'll post some initial information and questions to provoke some response.
Ever since Jelly Bean development began, I've noticed this issue on my device and have even had a replacement device with the same experience so hardware isn't a likely culprit in my opinion. h0tw1r3 was one of the first developers to bring a Jelly Bean ROM to SGH-i717 users and other ROM's were formed briefly after his using it as a base. Until about the third or fourth build ( 8-21 I believe), the performance was sluggishly the same. After this build though, there was a noticeable increase in graphical performance, although still significantly behind ICS. That new standard hasn't changed much since until the latest CM10 nightly builds where I've noticed quite an increase in graphical performance putting it a little closer to ICS performance but still painfully behind such that Dolphin is the only browser that feels smooth enough to use efficiently.
I have also noticed an odd phenomenon where the performance varies from build to build without a noticeably significant change. For example, I remember using DaGr8's AOKP port for a while and finding it smoother than other ROM's at the time but once installing his next build (that only mentioned minor unrelated changes, although some could have been unlisted) the performance was back down again. I have experienced this with multiple different ROM's though which is what is most peculiar that there is so much inconsistency.
Helpful Questions
Have you noticed any of these issues before? If so, which ones?
Do you think the issue is hardware or software/driver related?
How would you compare your best JB experience to stable ICS builds?
Which processes/applications perform the best and the worst for you graphically?
Which ROM's run smooth for you and which ones don't?
Which browsers have you tried in Jelly Bean and which ones do you prefer the most?
Have you noticed graphical performance issues in Chrome consistently at all? If so, in which ROM's or instances have you experienced such?
Do you have any ideas/suggestions as to what is causing or what could fix this issue?
And regardless of the inevitable bugs we are experiencing in alpha software, are you extremely grateful for the developers who have provided us with them? (SAY YES!!)
If any of you would like to add more content or questions to this list (and PLEASE do), just ask them and I'll add them to this OP.
Suggestions and Modifications for Improvement (list will grow over time as new information is presented)
1) Verify that the "debug.mdpcomp.maxlayer" parameter in build.prop is set to the value of 3 and not 2 when you first install a ROM (thanks to NYConex for the tip!). Some developers/ROM chefs (lol) will customize this setting based on their preference. This setting disables (value 2) and enables (value 3) GPU acceleration taking the load off of the CPU. Disabling has fixed the flicker issue that has developed in Jelly Bean for many people but will severely impact performance and graphical smoothness as well as battery life potentially. For flickering, I instead recommend using a live wallpaper which will force the GPU to refresh the screen much more often disabling flicker (in the homescreen at least).
2)**ESSENTIAL FIX FOR SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT** Change the debug.composition.type in /system/build.prop from "dyn" to "gpu" and reboot. This makes a MAJOR difference in ALL areas of performance. The existing string that is entered by default is a "dynamic" setting which alternates putting the graphical load on either the GPU or CPU depending upon resource allocation. Changing the setting to "gpu" will force Android to constantly use the GPU for graphics so you won't notice stutter and lag as Android switches the load from the CPU and GPU. Using this setting also increases overall system speed IMMENSELY as it allows the CPU to do more central tasks like launching applications and communicating with hardware instead of handling the graphics. This "constant GPU setting" plays very nicely with Project Butter in the sense that it uses a constant component of hardware to render graphics along with the constant frame rate that VSync provides. I may try to learn how to make my first ROM sometime soon and when I do, I'll be sure and integrate this into the ROM. Either thank the post or let everyone know if this has helped you!
I have noticed that the liquid ROM as well as the most recent nightly (2 SEP) have been pretty smooth. Nova launcher works great and I don't really see a lot of lag outside the launchers. One thing that kinda brothers me is the lag that is introduced when you enable the nav bar. I don't know exactly what happens behind the scenes (other than it disable the hw keys and enables the soft keys) but it adds a lot of lag. Is there a way to monitor exactly what happens when doing things to your phone? When I use liquid it changes without a reboot but with cm10 I have to manually disable the hw keys so it requires a reboot. Anyone know what's going on with it?
NYConex said:
I have noticed that the liquid ROM as well as the most recent nightly (2 SEP) have been pretty smooth. Nova launcher works great and I don't really see a lot of lag outside the launchers. One thing that kinda brothers me is the lag that is introduced when you enable the nav bar. I don't know exactly what happens behind the scenes (other than it disable the hw keys and enables the soft keys) but it adds a lot of lag. Is there a way to monitor exactly what happens when doing things to your phone? When I use liquid it changes without a reboot but with cm10 I have to manually disable the hw keys so it requires a reboot. Anyone know what's going on with it?
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Good question. I know there are settings in Developer options that allow you to show GPU status and updates which may provide some insight into GPU/CPU utilization. I don't have an immediate answer for you though. I'll do some research and report back.
With the Liquid ROM, I noticed it to be of the poorest performance as others. Was your experience smooth out of the box or did you have to change the debug.mdcomp.maxlayer from 2 back to 3 first?
**EDIT**
I just tried the Liquid ROM again and realized the debug.mdpcomp.maxlayer setting was set to 2 by default in that ROM and after the changing it, the performance was much better, though about the same as CM10 nightlies.
The mdcomp.maxlayer is always the first thing I check after flashing a ROM. I always set it to 3. But if you go back to liquid try the navbar and you will see what I mean. In not home right now but when I get back I'll mess with it a little.
I'm on the Liquid ROM and I don't notice any lag. So i don't think anything needs fixed...since I dont have the problems u describe.
I use almost all aspects of the Note except little music and games.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Try pulling down the notification drawer. Now sit there and tell me to my face its 60fps. No its not... its really choppy.
Fasty12 said:
Try pulling down the notification drawer. Now sit there and tell me to my face its 60fps. No its not... its really choppy.
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Lol damn right. I'd say its between 14-21 FPS variably.
Which ROM's have worked the best for you so far?
On mobile, had 2 scroll forever to read topic
SayWhat10 said:
On mobile, had 2 scroll forever to read topic
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Are you saying that my OP is too long which made you scroll forever or are you saying that the lag in Jelly Bean cause you to scroll forever?
andrawer said:
I'm on the Liquid ROM and I don't notice any lag. So i don't think anything needs fixed...since I dont have the problems u describe.
I use almost all aspects of the Note except little music and games.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
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Do you use Google Chrome? If so, how would you describe its performance in comparison to Ice Cream Sandwich?
The CM10 nightly has been the smoothest this far. So going by experience heres the rankings ATM.
1) Nightly... Smooth but constant flicker.
2) Liquid
2) Paranoid
3) Aokp
4) manualscout4life's rom.
Fasty12 said:
Try pulling down the notification drawer. Now sit there and tell me to my face its 60fps. No its not... its really choppy.
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Click to collapse
not sure if i understand.
I use my thumb to initiate the notification bar/drawer pulling down and it's immediate and smooth?? Up/down/up/down/up/down...smooth...just tried it. Not even a hint of lag...and that's with 4 notifications waiting for me to do something.
The mentioned lag on jellybean compared to anything previous doesn't come from anything done by Google or issues with software but comes from the lack of hardware acceleration which we don't get to use with jellybean, so our device is not being used to the fullest, is known like previous versions of android when it comes out and ported , is not going to performed like it's supposed to until HWA becomes available. This is the performance drop in fps compared to ICS. Some think because is a newer version of android is going to be better performing out of the box, but that won't happen unless an official version with HWA becomes available or a developer figures out how to implement it into a ROM.
I think JB is amazing and smooth in the little time it has been out.
RoloRacer Paranoid on JellyBean
I agree about the sluggishness of JB at its current state, its normal since we don't have HW acceleration, I'm on Paranoid and flashed Flaps Hot kernel, OC'ed to 1.7Ghz and its performing really well, you should try it out
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
egomezmorales said:
I agree about the sluggishness of JB at its current state, its normal since we don't have HW acceleration, I'm on Paranoid and flashed Flaps Hot kernel, OC'ed to 1.7Ghz and its performing really well, you should try it out
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
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So when will we get hardware acceleration? When jb officially comes out for the note?
roloracer said:
The mentioned lag on jellybean compared to anything previous doesn't come from anything done by Google or issues with software but comes from the lack of hardware acceleration which we don't get to use with jellybean, so our device is not being used to the fullest, is known like previous versions of android when it comes out and ported , is not going to performed like it's supposed to until HWA becomes available. This is the performance drop in fps compared to ICS. Some think because is a newer version of android is going to be better performing out of the box, but that won't happen unless an official version with HWA becomes available or a developer figures out how to implement it into a ROM.
I think JB is amazing and smooth in the little time it has been out.
RoloRacer Paranoid on JellyBean
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This has been my thought and awareness all along and what I've wanted to work on repairing. Perhaps it's everyone's use of the term "smooth" that is making everything amiss. When people boast that their JB experiences are "incredibly smooth!" and even more specifically "smoother than ICS!" I think they are making very fallible statements because I don't think that my perception of JB being behind ICS in smoothness can be interpreted as just a "difference in opinion or interpretation". It's definitely factual and quantifiable when testing frame rates and comparing them to ICS. Perhaps it's safe to say that "Jelly Bean is remarkably usable right now considering its alpha state", but to say that it is smooth is quite a fallacy. It's really not much better than Gingerbread and Gingerbread lacked HW acceleration altogether.
But if JB lacks hardware acceleration completely, then how is toggling the maxlayer setting and HW overlay setting in developer options clearly affecting performance if HW acceleration isn't even supported at all in the first place? Some sort of acceleration is clearly being enabled for the evident difference in performance to occur.
I am grateful that you recognize JB's current state to be behind and also attribute it to HW acceleration as I initially did. Now we can hopefully gain some momentum on finding the hindrance of bringing HW acceleration to JB!
If there's anything we've learned thus far, it's not to label a ROM officially "smooth" unless you can prove it greater than or equal to stable ICS builds with quantifiable means!
The word "smooth" is beginning to become a profanity for me, which is rather extreme, as there aren't many words I don't say! Lol...
Everyone should read this.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...roject-butter-how-it-works-and-what-it-added/
Jb runs exceptionally well for me with just the 2 buffers. Are all the animations perfect every single time? No, but it's perfectly usable, and slick enough for my dd. I'm sure it will be sorted in time.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
So far the smoothest jb rom for me has been dagr8's aokp Sept 1 build.
HW overlays are disabled and cpu at stock frequencies. Running Nova 1.2.2 and have fluid home screen transitions and overall smoothness.
If I were to nitpick, the notification bar is the only thing that seems somewhat sluggish but only when I pull it down on the home screen (I am running a live wallpaper.)
No reboots or sleep of deaths so far, loving this rom at the moment.
yollasho said:
Everyone should read this.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...roject-butter-how-it-works-and-what-it-added/
Jb runs exceptionally well for me with just the 2 buffers. Are all the animations perfect every single time? No, but it's perfectly usable, and slick enough for my dd. I'm sure it will be sorted in time.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
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Really interesting read, thanks for sharing!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------
Fasty12 said:
So when will we get hardware acceleration? When jb officially comes out for the note?
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Yep, or that a developer taps on how to get HW acceleration
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
We've had hardware acceleration.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
Looking for a good stable rom with no memory leaks or random slow downs. Naturally i would prefer it to be JB but i know thats unrealistic at this point.
So is there anything based on Samsungs ICS, that is very much like aosp?
features i am hooked on now: programmable hardware buttons, google now, JB style notifications (i know this is a long shot).
any suggestions?
Chameleon
jerseykat1 said:
Looking for a good stable rom with no memory leaks or random slow downs. Naturally i would prefer it to be JB but i know thats unrealistic at this point.
So is there anything based on Samsungs ICS, that is very much like aosp?
features i am hooked on now: programmable hardware buttons, google now, JB style notifications (i know this is a long shot).
any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try chameleon v1.1 ROM. Search it in ROM list as I can't post link here due to new user restrictions.
jerseykat1 said:
Looking for a good stable rom with no memory leaks or random slow downs. Naturally i would prefer it to be JB but i know thats unrealistic at this point.
So is there anything based on Samsungs ICS, that is very much like aosp?
features i am hooked on now: programmable hardware buttons, google now, JB style notifications (i know this is a long shot).
any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is NO stock based Rom that will those CM10 things you are talking about.
However, Chameleon ROM 1.2 has some Aosp apps, JB animations, and it's AOSP themed : forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1847600
Swyped from my Samsung Galaxy SII
Hi all.
There has been talk about Jelly Bean providing lower audio latency. I have flashed to cm10 and the latency using Caustic is 144ms. Can I ask users of both ICS and jelly bean ROMs on the i9300 what their latency is using the help menu on Caustic? Its a free demo from Google play.
If no one on Jelly Bean has lower latency then it might be worth researching a patch ( one is available for the galaxy nexus ) to see if it could be built for the i9300.
Thanks
Muso
93ms , I'm on android revolution hd.
Running a stock-based ICS ROM (Omega 13.1) and my latency is 93 ms. Have you tried a Sammy JB ROM? Maybe your high latency is just related to CM10.
I'm running stock Samsung Jelly Bean I9300XXDLIH updated via OTA and I have the same audio latency, 93ms.
That is the exact same latency I had with stock ICS!
So, after all what was said about jelly bean audio improvement I'm really diasappointed.
All I have noticed is just a little improvement in touch response but nothing so exiting as I expected from this update!
I had some hopes to finally see some quality real time guitar effects in my S3 but I start thinking this is a hopeless matter!!!
Unfortunately it seems not much people is missing some great Iphone music apps enough to make Google take seriously care about it!
I'm also very interested in lower latency on my s3... hope there will be a solution in the near future.
Mind if i ask in what way does lower or higher audio latency affect the phone?? because ive been experiencing some echo in my calls (JB 4.1.1) and i dont know if this is related.
sry for the noob question