I am looking into purchasing the SGP 4.2 as a means for very portable entertainment. I had the 4.0 and loved it - I must say I miss it a lot, haha. It went everywhere with me. I am loving the new look of the 4.2 version and would like to know if any of you are using this version and what your thoughts are. Aside from looks and what appears to be a slightly lower resolution camera, are there any major differences as far as performance could be concerned?
Luna_Sky said:
I am looking into purchasing the SGP 4.2 as a means for very portable entertainment. I had the 4.0 and loved it - I must say I miss it a lot, haha. It went everywhere with me. I am loving the new look of the 4.2 version and would like to know if any of you are using this version and what your thoughts are. Aside from looks and what appears to be a slightly lower resolution camera, are there any major differences as far as performance could be concerned?
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Click to collapse
Go to the all in one thread found here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1720457 and you'll find all the spec vs spec differencces. Stock vs Stock it's a toss up. On quadrant the 4.2 has between a score 1700-1800 where as the 4.0 has a score between 1200-1300. This is probably because they fixed the I/O performance on the 4.2 or used .ext4. On my rom and kernel I use .ext4 and without overclocking I got between 2100-2200. On Antutu however, it flips the 4.2 scores between 2600-2800 and the 4.0 scores between 2900-3100. I believe that the 4.2 is also currently awaiting to be rooted so there are no custom roms yet where as the 4.0 some.
obscuresword said:
Go to the all in one thread found here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1720457 and you'll find all the spec vs spec differencces. Stock vs Stock it's a toss up. On quadrant the 4.2 has between a score 1700-1800 where as the 4.0 has a score between 1200-1300. This is probably because they fixed the I/O performance on the 4.2 or used .ext4. On my rom and kernel I use .ext4 and without overclocking I got between 2100-2200. On Antutu however, it flips the 4.2 scores between 2600-2800 and the 4.0 scores between 2900-3100. I believe that the 4.2 is also currently awaiting to be rooted so there are no custom roms yet where as the 4.0 some.
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Thanks for sharing the link! Hope I didn't post something that was out of place. Just looking for reviews from anyone that has the 4.2 - their thoughts on it and the performance. Have been seeing some 'not so great' talk from people that have it and the complete opposite, lol. Thanks again
Luna_Sky said:
Thanks for sharing the link! Hope I didn't post something that was out of place. Just looking for reviews from anyone that has the 4.2 - their thoughts on it and the performance. Have been seeing some 'not so great' talk from people that have it and the complete opposite, lol. Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You posted in the correct place. For reviews I go to youtube. Here's some if you haven't seen them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2oJpF9H25Y , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLnXUKvNss, and the review that I think best captures the 3.6 and 4.2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu3p1b74--o ( suggest subscribing to her because she makes long and detailed reviews most are 10-20 minutes long lol)
Related
Has anyone noticed a jump in the quadrant standard points after installing the touch wiz update? It seems my G Tab 10.1 has went from 1550 to 2360avg.
)
Cambell said:
Has anyone noticed a jump in the quadrant standard points after installing the touch wiz update? It seems my G Tab 10.1 has went from 1550 to 2360avg.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. Others have mentioned similar results in the update threads too. For all its aesthetic sore eyes, TW does quite improve speed snd functionality. A keeper for the moment (though with Docs mods and pershoots kernel, it'll become even better
After 4 runs I got a score of 2414, I've only had my tab a day so can't compare to pre TW-
definitely an improvement
This alone should make everyone happy with TW, yet many people are crying about how ugly it is.
I guess I just don't understand because I don't think it is ugly and if performance is greatly improved who cares if it is "ugly". Change your widgets to make the appearance as pretty as possible, I know some things can't be changed but you can adapt.
End Rant
Im currently using CM9 latest nightly, but as much as I love AOSP, I never feels as smooth as samsung based roms. Why is that? Kernel? Drivers? Optimizations?
If its kernel, which is (Opinion based) the smoothest available?
thnx
Im looking for the smoothest experience, is there a kernel or any t
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
ATM cm9 roms have a bit touch issue, so it feels like its not smooth
But when their wasn't any touch issue then people said its much smoother than stock
once you taste aosp ics you never go back
just wait till it hit stable and samsung rom wont even come close
^^^ Thats how I feel. But im kinda picky, thats why I brought it up. I noticed the touch issue and its part of the issue IMO. But can Exynos drivers/optimizations also be contributing? because stock ICS roms get much better framerate in the GPU tests than CM9 (never mind the overall score) So maybe the CPU isnt being used to its full potential
I flashed a buddys Vibrant with Passion ICS and also noticed that a single core 512mb ram last gen phone felt smoother than my exynos monster. Same goes to the Vivid when i tried one at the ATT store that had the ICS update. When i flipped the homescreen carrusell in Sense, it was like when I first saw a motionflow 120hz TV
Hope things get sorted out because I love AOSP and would never want to go back to the cartoony TW
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
mike21pr said:
^^^ Thats how I feel. But im kinda picky, thats why I brought it up. I noticed the touch issue and its part of the issue IMO. But can Exynos drivers/optimizations also be contributing? because stock ICS roms get much better framerate in the GPU tests than CM9 (never mind the overall score) So maybe the CPU isnt being used to its full potential
I flashed a buddys Vibrant with Passion ICS and also noticed that a single core 512mb ram last gen phone felt smoother than my exynos monster. Same goes to the Vivid when i tried one at the ATT store that had the ICS update. When i flipped the homescreen carrusell in Sense, it was like when I first saw a motionflow 120hz TV
Hope things get sorted out because I love AOSP and would never want to go back to the cartoony TW
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most of the fixes like video recording were done in hurry ,noobes flaming etc
now the devs are working on cleaning and optimizing the code now
http://codeworkx.de/wordpress/2012/03/30/cm9-status-for-galaxy-s-ii/
You can try with another ROM, I'm currently in Thebyani 3.7 it uses Siyah v3.0rc1 kernel and Vertumus Theme.
Its really smooth and fast and the look it's very AOSP, no TW bloat.
This is my fifth prime bought the first when it was first released and bought and sold a few more since then I picked one up a few days ago for a crazy price i am now running virtuous prime and performance mode at 1.8 ghz and my galaxy note is still much faster with everything i don't understand this, i think the prime is the best 10 inch tablet i guess i just thought it would be faster when overclocked with a custom rom
for starters wrong section, should've been in QnA section. Second, you could've just posted that in one of the many existing complaint threads.
Not complaining just wondering why and how to make the prime faster
golfinggino said:
Not complaining just wondering why and how to make the prime faster
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Click to collapse
if you running a custom rom and overclocked it should easily run faster than what you claim. you must not of did something right. I'm stock, rooted, and overclocked n my prime runs circles around my Ipad n phone.
try a different rom and make sure its flashed correctly. virtuous is more of a stock base rom built for stability. you want performance, use AOKP or WSG rom or maybe even new gummy one. lots of different roms to try out. even still, virtuous overclocked should be running great.
OK thanks I will try another room btw my note is rooted running rocket rom lpy so it is not not stock, but it is faster then my current set up on my prime but i will take your advice and try another room thanks
Also remember that different chip setups use different speed tweaks. Are you running a third-party launcher? Any monitoring apps? What kind of widgets? What background services are running? I had virtuous with OC and it was great, but I changed to AOKP with OC and is much faster running the same apps.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
golfinggino said:
This is my fifth prime bought the first when it was first released and bought and sold a few more since then I picked one up a few days ago for a crazy price i am now running virtuous prime and performance mode at 1.8 ghz and my galaxy note is still much faster with everything i don't understand this, i think the prime is the best 10 inch tablet i guess i just thought it would be faster when overclocked with a custom rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im runnin a custom ICS Rom on my Galaxy S2...Its overclocked at 1.5...And its pretty damn close side by side when I bring up stuff...I too am runnin the Gummy on performance 1.8...But its fast enuff for me...
And I just luv the view of a 10.1 compared to my 4.6 screen on the Epic 4 Touch...
why is my honda civic faster than a 18 wheeler? the 18 wheeler has a much larger engine and a lot more power!
The prime easialy outpowers the note however other things have to come into consideration: What kernel / rom is running on both devices, what device specific optimizations have been made for the specific hardware. What different chipsets, GPU's, screen resolutions, animations, versions of android, etc are there?
There are so many problems with this thread i dont even know where to start. As far as tablets go, the prime has the best HARDWARE. This does not mean, by default, the software will run faster. The same way that 18 wheeler has a much larger and more powerfull engine does not mean it will go faster than my honda civic with its 4 cylinder engine.
My suggestion is go on google and do some research on how android actually works. Learn about the hardware you complain about and maybe you might learn your answer for yourself.
Both are running ics 4.0.3. Both are running adw ex launcher and the same apps don't get me wrong the prime is great I am just surprised that my note loads webpages twice as fast on the same wifi network even on demand at 1400 MHz on the note vs 1800mhz performance on the prime - anyway I was just curious no big deal
lol im not surprised, wifi on the tablet sucks. try loading up some graphic intense games and see which has the fastest loading times. Its no secret the primes wifi sucks try a test that compares other things like the GPU or CPU.
And even if both devices have android 4.0.3 unless its stock google 4.0.3 they have been tweaked in one way or another. load AOSP on each and give er another shot.
just loaded up the gummy v1.2.3 and now it is as about as fast as my note on the internet - of course the prime has more power and gpu but i was more concerned with everyday apps like internet, etc. i currently dont play any games on the prime
i think i wil put an aosp rom on the note and see how it compares - thanks to everyone for their advice
btw i picked up this prime to test out the unlocked bootloader / customs roms, it was pretty scratched up when i bought it used but i put on a zagg screen protector and it covers up all the scratches on the screen and then i bought a nice leather case as well not bad for $100 total !!
I have been holding on and skipping devices that were/are really appealing to me(LG Pro, Oppo, Sony Xperia Z, etc) for the Note 3.
I was going to order the Xperia Z Ultra but thankfully I convinced my self otherwise. I'm not playing many games now days nor using it heavily.
Mostly for above average media consumption, light gaming, browsing.
Also as I said I was waiting for the Note 3 since the day Note 2 was announced I decided to skip a generation.
And thankfully I decided to skip the Note 3 for the Mega. I really wanna go even bigger this time. I don't mind the mid-range performance.
And since my original Note with Asylum 4.3 now feels so incredible(it felt good with custom JB 4.1.2 too), I can only imagine the Mega will blow my mind.
I got the Note 1 at launch and I paid for it quite dearly for it back then.
And today I got my Samsung MEGA(i9200). HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! I'm really in love with this device. The size, the screen, its sound quality are just... amazing!
I can't even remotely begin to explain how I feel about it. This IS really the device that ever wanted. This device in my hand(s) feels like home...
I'm using it for a couple hours now and I can tell you I wouldn't even think about trading it for a Note 3(for free yes as I could sell the Note3 and buy another Mega )
This is really my preferred size of a phone. But I can go down to 6" too if the N4 is released next year and its 5,9-6,0". The best device so far I ever owned.
I also stated that I can go up to 6" when I got my Note in previous post of mine. So I was kinda always wanted a phone this big,
Watched a few trailers, videos clip, youtube videos, listen to many songs. I can say the experience was amazing. I haven't played any games yet tho.
This phone is big. You cannot really how humongous it's unless you light up the screen. The you can understand how huge it is. But it doesn't feel THAT bigger than my Note tbh.
I think that sums things up for me. I haven't felt this excited for a phone since 21 months ago when I got my original Note. Really, really happy owner here.
P.S: I can test/check/confirm anything you guys might want. Like bugs(like dim bug), codes, camera firmware, glitches etc etc. Just let me know. :good:
Edit: I have FM Radio btw and its fully working.
Congrats! Could you run a movie on both Note and Mega and tell us what you think. I am particularly interested in comparing the brightness, and the blacks. And colors. If you could play a high bit rate action movie 720p and compare them smoothness that would be great too. Thanks!
x2h said:
Congrats! Could you run a movie on both Note and Mega and tell us what you think. I am particularly interested in comparing the brightness, and the blacks. And colors. If you could play a high bit rate action movie 720p and compare them smoothness that would be great too. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always compared my previous phones(when its possible to compare them anyway) to my new ones. I always test them with 1080p trailers of excellent quality.
I will do a side by side test with both devices playing various videos(big buck bunny, Sintel, Tekken Blood Vengeance, Hobbit, Avatar, Timescapes etc etc).
But I must be honest, I consider my self a true fan of the AMOLED screens and I love them and I swear by them, so I check the display differences extensively.
I always compare them side by side in:
benchmarks( doing a reboot first and then clearing RAM and closing every possible running up)
screen quality by playing same video with MX at the exact same settings on both devices and also by displaying both the same photo/image.
Camera quality by taking the exact same picture outdoors in qood sunlight conditions and tonight I will test the low light camera quality and view them on my pc.
And obviously the side by side size comparisons. lol.
And maybe a few more...
koniakki said:
And today I got my Samsung MEGA(i9200). HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! I'm really in love with this devices. The size, the screen, its sound are just... amazing!
Edit: I have FM Radio btw and its fully working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean great for media and web consumption
When you root make sure you flash audio mod to give you more sound headroom. It makes a diff
Sent from my GT-I9205 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
thering1975 said:
I know what you mean great for media and web consumption
When you root make sure you flash audio mod to give you more sound headroom. It makes a diff
Sent from my GT-I9205 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will de-virginize(is that even a word) my Mega as you did with my Note...
Update on the battery life:
Its been 7 hours since the first fully charge and 32% remaining. 5 hours screen on time so far with 4h:44m WIFI on time.
Usage was(estimated unless said otherwise):
Around 30-40 Youtube videos(in HD).
Played 10-12 1080p videos I put from the PC for around maybe 20-25 minutes all total time of play time with the MX Player.
Run Antutu 4.0.1(19907) once.
Run 3DMark twice(5474).
Browsed the web with Chrome Beta for around 12 minutes as it say in the stats even tho I feel it was longer than that.
Took around 15 photos some with around 5 being with flash
Also spent a couple of minutes totally just looking at the screen. That thing is huge!
koniakki said:
And today I got my Samsung MEGA(i9200). HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! I'm really in love with this device. The size, the screen, its sound quality are just... amazing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed! Love it!
Update: Rooted today(from here) and updated with XXUAMH1(SILENTLIGHT Rom found here).
This AMH1 release feels and IS faster. I can swear the apps at least feels that open up faster.
In general the phone feels noticeably smoother.
Also my score in 3DMark went from 5147 to 5506. Antutu from 19500 to 20500.
And no, it felt faster all day long. I just run the synthetic test like 15min ago. So I didn't had that in mind to cause a placebo effect or anything.
Congrats koniakki on getting the mega and you are going to enjoy it, i ran Antutu on a stock rom yet, and phone is only rooted at this time and i got a score of 20662..imagine when some custom roms come out for this phone it could have a better score yet..enjoy your new phone.
starmaster10 said:
Congrats koniakki on getting the mega and you are going to enjoy it, i ran Antutu on a stock rom yet, and phone is only rooted at this time and i got a score of 20662..imagine when some custom roms come out for this phone it could have a better score yet..enjoy your new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply starmaster and welcome to the Mega community too! My best on the Antutu 4.0.1 was around 20500! So well done! :good:
Quadrant was about 7250-7300 my best. Can't remember exactly but was about there. Bring the custom roms/kernels. Our Snappy has a lot of headroom for improvements!
Also starmaster, what I like also is when I compare that score along with the Note 2 or Xperia Z in the Rankings!
Forsure and the scores are very close to those two phones and the mega beats both of those two other phones in the 3D Graphics gaming category i see..now bring on the custom roms. :good:
Edit: I just ran Quadrant on my mega 6.3 and got a score of 8570.
starmaster10 said:
Forsure and the scores are very close to those two phones and the mega beats both of those two other phones in the 3D Graphics gaming category i see..now bring on the custom roms. :good:
Edit: I just ran Quadrant on my mega 6.3 and got a score of 8570.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either your CPU is a racehorse or something is off!! lol!
You got 5000 points more in the CPU score and 2000 points in the I/O score! Did you apply any kind of tweaks? I'm very interested.
No.. i have no tweaks in the phone at all, it is just rooted and that is all, maybe my model i527m is a little different in ways and in the info is says 1.7 GHz cpu and it is a Qualcomm snapdragon and the Adreno 305, maybe i got lucky and got a really good phone..but everything is stock except the rooting part.
Below is a pic of my device info.
And i just re-ran Quadrant again and got even a higher score of 8664..not sure why i am getting these good scores but i like it.
starmaster10 said:
No.. i have no tweaks in the phone at all, it is just rooted and that is all, maybe my model i527m is a little different in ways and in the info is says 1.7 GHz cpu and it is a Qualcomm snapdragon and the Adreno 305, maybe i got lucky and got a really good phone..but not everything is stock except the rooting part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird. ...because everything ive been reading about the ATT i527....
There is NO root available yet..
How did you manage to root it???
Can you post a link to the instructions for rooting the i527? ??...
Edit****
Ahhhhh I see now. ..its the "m" version. ...
Sorry about that...
Many thanks
Sent from my GT-I9205 using xda app-developers app
jimmbomb said:
Weird. ...because everything ive been reading about the ATT i527....
There is NO root available yet..
How did you manage to root it???
Can you post a link to the instructions for rooting the i527? ??...
Edit****
Ahhhhh I see now. ..its the "m" version. ...
Sorry about that...
Many thanks
Sent from my GT-I9205 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem on that..and i hope they get a solution for your i527 mega so that you can root it as that is kinda a bummer that they locked the bootloader on that model for the AT&T version..sooner the better. :good:
starmaster10 said:
No.. i have no tweaks in the phone at all, it is just rooted and that is all, maybe my model i527m is a little different in ways and in the info is says 1.7 GHz cpu and it is a Qualcomm snapdragon and the Adreno 305, maybe i got lucky and got a really good phone..but everything is stock except the rooting part.
Below is a pic of my device info.
And i just re-ran Quadrant again and got even a higher score of 8664..not sure why i am getting these good scores but i like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. I re-run the benchmark with all the available Governors/Schedulers combination allowed via CPU Master and I cannot pass 7300 points.
Anyone else with a i9200 Mega can run Quadrant please and post their best score please?
If other members with i9200 get the same as me, maybe we can find why starmaster10 scores are so high and find a way to get that performance too! :good:
koniakki said:
Hmm. I re-run the benchmark with all the available Governors/Schedulers combination allowed via CPU Master and I cannot pass 7300 points.
Anyone else with a i9200 Mega can run Quadrant please and post their best score please?
If other members with i9200 get the same as me, maybe we can find why starmaster10 scores are so high and find a way to get that performance too! :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am getting about 7200 but i don't know why he getting high score i have searched on wikipedia but i didn't find anything his device use the same cpu and gpu and same speed 1.7 and same ram maybe he can upload screenshot from cpu z app so we know more information about your device
or maybe your kernel has tweaks to boost performence or something like that
Here is a pic of my kernel version and baseband version etc, i will see if i can get more info on my device with that app or some others also. :good:
Here are some pics below from CPU Z of the SOC and System page.
starmaster10 said:
Here is a pic of my kernel version and baseband version etc, i will see if i can get more info on my device with that app or some others also. :good:
Here are some pics below from CPU Z of the SOC and System page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no changes the same processor i think its kernel feature or maybe your rom has better performence
I did another run with Quadrant and my score went up again to 8772...I am kinda puzzled on the scores that I am getting.
Not sure if this will make a difference for you guys/gals, do you have any anti-virus program installed as i have not installed a anti-virus program yet...and i most likely will not as i do not go to any of the dodgy sites.
Sent from my SGH-I527M using xda app-developers app
starmaster10 said:
I did another run with Quadrant and my score went up again to 8772...I am kinda puzzled on the scores that I am getting.
Not sure if this will make a difference for you guys/gals, do you have any anti-virus program installed as i have not installed a anti-virus program yet...and i most likely will not as i do not go to any of the dodgy sites.
Sent from my SGH-I527M using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get us wrong starmaster10, we are really happy for you that you get that performance. I hope that yo can even get 9000! :good:
We are just trying to figure out how to get that too and see if a kernel/rom or simply the I527M version of the Mega is just faster or better optimized!
The differences are in the CPU and I/O which are 5000 and 2000 points faster respectively. I hope someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us, since it will benefit us all to make our devices even faster!
P.S: Starmaster10, if not much trouble, can you please post some scores from the latest Antutu from the Play Store? Thanks!
Hi there little-biggie users
I would like to know some information from those who use the latest CM11 on Z Ultra.
Does everything work? I mean for example WiFi tethering ... because I read there have been problems.
Is it smooth enough? stock 4.4.4 is very smooth ... some people say 4.3 was better ... I know it is not important, but how much does it score in AnTuTu?
Is it worth moving from stock to CM? I had Xperia Neo before ... so I have experience with flashing etc. ... but I do not have much time now and just want to be sure.
Thank you for your answers :good:
Mr.Bombastic said:
Hi there little-biggie users
I would like to know some information from those who use the latest CM11 on Z Ultra.
Does everything work? I mean for example WiFi tethering ... because I read there have been problems.
Is it smooth enough? stock 4.4.4 is very smooth ... some people say 4.3 was better ... I know it is not important, but how much does it score in AnTuTu?
Is it worth moving from stock to CM? I had Xperia Neo before ... so I have experience with flashing etc. ... but I do not have much time now and just want to be sure.
Thank you for your answers :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not using CM (I\m building Carbon for the community so use that) but tethering was fixed about a month or so ago. No AOSP/CM11 seems to score quite as high as Stock on antutu, but benchmarks aren't everything.
I will pick Aosp performance over CM anytime.
blueether said:
I'm not using CM (I\m building Carbon for the community so use that) but tethering was fixed about a month or so ago. No AOSP/CM11 seems to score quite as high as Stock on antutu, but benchmarks aren't everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seen that two months ago... scores on antutu are so poor on custom roms...
DIGITALIZOR said:
I seen that two months ago... scores on antutu are so poor on custom roms...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They keep improving thanks to ever-excellent dev work. I tried some benchmarks for the first time recently, and got almost 40,000 points on Antutu v5 with both Slim/CandyKat and LiquidSmooth (optimised CM11 kernel) with pretty stock settings. PAC-ROM scored a bit lower at ~35-36,000 with the standard CM11 kernel.
I personally find Sony ROMs the smoothest graphically, but the benefits of custom ROMs outweigh this for me.
Haven't tried stock, but using latest nightly (not that many commis have been merged since my was forked).
It's very nice. I can only compare it with cm on note 3, but this seems better. I have a small issue with the light sensor, but everything else world fine. Smooth. I'm using ART, and I've had 0 reboots or fc's compared to the other mentioned device.
I've heard that stock is nice, but for the latest and greatest you'll have to run a cm/aosp base? Hopefully we'll see the next Android iteration soon..
I just moved off stock to CM11.2 about a week ago and I'm liking it but there is something wonky with the dialer, when I make or receive a call if I hang up using the red bar it doesn't hang the call up. The red bar turns dark and the person is still on line.
Oh, got one other complaint, the camera is VERY VERY slow to come up, like 30-60 seconds sometimes. I've also seen it unable to connect.
Those are about my only complaint. It's way better than Sony and getting my Root Explorer, Titanium Backup, and Recovery back is worth it.
Marc
Only issue is the camera sometimes forced close .. other than that , battery life is awesome , smooth and fast. On top of this I flashed a OnePlusOne conversion kit and everything works. I like the screencast app. I like this new build.
Theme engines are awesome too...
for the camera see the fix in most of the custom ROM threads
bugs everywhere but not more or fewer than other roms