Related
It will be possible?
well froyo is doing some problems to the devs.. i think it would be better to get froyo working since gingerbread will take 4 months
NO!
Minimum hardware requirements for Android 3.0 devices are: 1GHZ CPU, 512MB or RAM, displays from 3.5” and higher. (source)
beat me to it.
yea, considering the minimum system requirements for 3.0 I would have to say no. most Hero users cant even overclock past 695MHz so its a no go.
From what Im reading, theyre killing all custom UI with it too. no more Sense, no more Motoblur, no more nothing. just the new stock google UI that theyre working on.
I kinda see it as a good thing. the one problem with Android phones has been that the customization has been too vast. there needs to be more industry standards just like the iphone or we're going to run into phone wars that dont just involve iphone vs android.
I don't think that we won't be able to get Sense etc because that is the beauty of Android,freedom and customization.If we lose a little of both then...I don't know,I just don't want it to turn iPhoney!I think that they only will give a standard UI for apps so that we avoid the current situation,which is that every app has its own UI and there is no consistency.My opinion though...
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
tweedie said:
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will first starve to death and then google might face problems!Anyway...Microsoft gave similar specs for WP7 but I've already seen a ported version running on the Diamond!What I've learned here in XDA-Devs is that we can never say never!My opinion?We will see Gingerbread on the Hero but it will never run well or smooth enough...Unless we can change its chipset!
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
There's also a Dalvik JIT compiler that improves overall CPU-bound code performance by two to five times compared to version 2.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lost101 said:
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
Will it be hard...
Hell yeah!!!!
But it isn't impossible just today some developers made ubuntu and Android 2.1 on HTC HD2
tolis626 said:
Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point was that 'Sense' doesn't seem to benefit from JIT, and that 3.0 will have a superior UI making it unnecessary anyway. If the new UI isn't incredibly demanding (the reason for the 1ghz requirement cited?) and benefits from JIT, chances are that Hero can handle it.
Android 3.0 will also have a completely refreshed user interface. According to UnwiredView, the new UI will resemble the Cooliris-made photo gallery application that's on the Nexus One. It will feature animated transitions between apps and screens.
Google has hired Palm's former webOS user interface designer, Matias Duarte. His new position at Google is with the Android user experience team.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
h**p://tinyurl.com/39s9e3a
I've heard/read that ONLY honeycomb makes use of the dual core.
So what's the advantage of having a dual core phone running gingerbread?
Nvm I found some information.
Sry for makimg a new useless topic
Where did you find the information?
Please post the Link!
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
MustWarnothers said:
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Caching is primarily what makes it so smooth on the iPhone, not GPU acceleration; though that helps a fair amount, also. The lack of heavy use of caching everything in the UI for what seems like all Android UIs is what has baffled me about Android UIs. Home screen launcher replacements like LauncherPro use it, and it makes everything nice and silky smooth. I've honestly been thinking that most UI designers for the hardware companies simply do not know what they are doing.
MustWarnothers said:
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not that simple...ios is missing a lot of features. i read that it doesn't support java and just object-oriented C++.
Since android was started, phone developers have pushed it in directions that Google didn't originally plan for. That's why the nexus s only had single core, and afaik, all the dual core phones have software on top of android to manage the dual core processing, which doesn't really do much for them. yes they're faster, but i think not as fast as they could/should be.
i'm assuming the next nexus will be a dual core, and with android that has support for them. if so, it'd blow all dual cores away to this point, because processor management is more efficient the lower in the stack it's handled.
however, what with the nexus s 4g being recently released, i'm not expecting the next nexus to be around anytime soon as G focus on tablets.
Since the SGS2 is so fast for web browsing and flash content, as well as UI, what type of magic do they do if they aren't altering the basic Android system? Does it involve using dual-core? How specific are the Samsung optimizations and are they low-level enough for Google to say this would be great in Ice Cream and thus steal that optimization from them? Is TouchWiz actually faster than stock Android? Or is that impossible since it is built on top of Android? Will the browser speed translate to other installed browsers, or is it specific to the stock browser? I really don't know how far Samsung or any other manufacturer can customize the software beyond just superficial skins and whether or not deep customizations change the system fundamentally and possibly break certain apps.
I didn't really investigate this issue deeply, but I think it works out like this:
Right now, the android sdk (2.3) provides no means to use more than one CPU core.
Still, multicore CPUs will increase performance because background processes can use CPU time on the core not being used by the running app.
This also applies to garbage collection (GC) which happens periodically (I guess you can trigger it manually too) whilst an app is running. With more than one core, the GC won't block the app which makes it feel "smoother".
I remember reading about Google's plans to improve multicore-support in android 2.4. It will take some time for existing apps to use it though (like it's happened with desktop applications).
Then just imagine the performance of the SGS II device with hardware acceleration support.
MustWarnothers said:
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since Honeycomb utilizes GPU for UI rendering, I guess it will be available on Ice Cream too.
Android is handicapped by the big range of hardware used by manufacturers. Some GPUs are simply too slow or have other issues which will make GPU acceleration fail. This is not an issue for Apple, because there is no hardware choice on iOS.
silverwolf0 said:
Since the SGS2 is so fast for web browsing and flash content, as well as UI, what type of magic do they do if they aren't altering the basic Android system? Does it involve using dual-core? How specific are the Samsung optimizations and are they low-level enough for Google to say this would be great in Ice Cream and thus steal that optimization from them? Is TouchWiz actually faster than stock Android? Or is that impossible since it is built on top of Android? Will the browser speed translate to other installed browsers, or is it specific to the stock browser? I really don't know how far Samsung or any other manufacturer can customize the software beyond just superficial skins and whether or not deep customizations change the system fundamentally and possibly break certain apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All parts of android (2.3) are open sourced, so Samsung can customize anything they want. They don't have to release the changed version as open source though (except for the GPLed parts, like the kernel) - so we'll probably never know what they've been doing.
german wikipedia says that gingerbread 2.3.3 features dual-core support ...
Link it please, thats odd.
My German is bad as I only read it for a couple of year but here is the Wikipedia page http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(Betriebssystem)
At the bottom you have "Dual-Core-Unterstützung" on 2.3.3 which means it support it.
But as always Wikipedia is never 100% correct so who know
I read that they will re-release a gingerbread version (2.4?) that will take advantage of Dual-core apps. So basically, they add dual-core support and it will also still be gingerbread but version 2.4 of android.
Come to think of it, they did the same thing with Eclair (2.0 and 2.1) already.
Hope this helps
I think they have already done that with "Gingerbread 2.3.3", Instead of calling v 2.4 GINGERBREAD as well, they made the changes in "Gingerbread" and gave it versioning 2.3.3.
Thats what it looks like all on Wikipedia pages. Highlights 2.3.3 as a Major release.
Yes, the wiki says that dual-cores are supported from 2.3.3 and it says too that dual-core-apps are supported on single-core smartphones! --> Thats an indication for real dual-core support!
I'm just waiting for when Android decides to implement GPU UI acceleration.
Even if apps are offered dual core support, if both of those cores are still working on UI animations instead of tossing it to the GPU, it seems like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.
As I understand it, Gingerbread (2.3) offers limited dual-core support. If your phone has a 2nd core available, then it will move the Garbage Collector onto the 2nd core which means there will be a lot less lag in applications and games when the GC fires off to remove unused resources.
http:/ /developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
It's under the 'enhancements to games' section I believe.
Honeycomb (3.0) offers full UI hardware acceleration and makes full use of both cores - so wait for Ice Cream to come to phones and it will be fully supported.
I know that wikipedia isnt always right but if i assume that it is right this time it says that what you just wrote Xailter was integrated in 2.3 and real dual-core support in 2.3.3 :
2.3 features:
Linux-Kernel 2.6.35.7
Unterstützung von WebM
Unterstützung von HTML5 Audio [31]
Unterstützung von Google TV
Unterstützung von Near Field Communication
Parallele Garbage Collection für ruckelfreiere Animationen
verbesserte Integration von sozialen Netzwerken
Unterstützung von Gyroskopen (nicht zu verwechseln mit Bewegungssensoren) und anderen Sensoren (u.a. Barometer, Schwerkraftsensor)[32]
Integrierter SIP-Client für VoIP[33]
Integrierter Downloadmanager[33]
Unterstützung des Ext4-Dateisystems[34]
translated something like "parallel garbage collection for smoother animations"
while 2.3.3 features:
Dual-Core-Unterstützung
Unterstützung von Dual-Core-Apps auf Single-Core-Geräten
verbesserte Unterstützung der NFC-Technik
verbesserte Bluetooth-Unterstützung
kleinere Verbesserungen
which means dual-core support
support for dual-core apps on single-core-devices
improved support of nfc
improved support for bluetooth
minor improvements
if we can believe in what wikipedia says ... 2.3.3 features dual-core support
and i think it is true because it would just make sense to support the hardware that is releasing right now
source: de. wikipedia. org/wiki/Android_%28Betriebssystem%29#Versionsverlauf
sry for the spaces .. but i'm not allowed to post outside links
Currently running pershoots cm9 ics 03.02.2012 version. There have been plenty of nightlies posted since but is there much to gain? I also see Lang versions but still don't know what that means.
This runs better than anything I've used before,but its the only ics rom I've tried.
There's Romans one which is stable and constantly updated before a fortnight, might want to check it out, his thread has the milestone 4, which is the currently stable version
Sent from my GT - I9003 in the bathroom
Any notable improvements? Netflix and pulse run laggy and the browser needs to be open and closed or stops working at times on pershoots. Those are my main complaints.
Well ICS has been built to support the user's needs, only camera doesn't work since Samsung hasn't given us the driver's for those yet, but everything else has been tailored to performance.
Netflix still lags only because of horribly failed ARM mobile flash port which drains more battery and isn't that optimized for Tegra2 devices. It's a common thing on most, don't worry about it, I assume HTML5 would rectify this.
I'm sorry but what is Pulse? These apps are only for the land of milk and honey
Misledz said:
Well ICS has been built to support the user's needs, only camera doesn't work since Samsung hasn't given us the driver's for those yet, but everything else has been tailored to performance.
Netflix still lags only because of horribly failed ARM mobile flash port which drains more battery and isn't that optimized for Tegra2 devices. It's a common thing on most, don't worry about it, I assume HTML5 would rectify this.
I'm sorry but what is Pulse? These apps are only for the land of milk and honey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pulse is a fairly graphic intensive news reader: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alphonso.pulse&hl=en
The time warner cable app is also very laggy.
It's not that theyre unusable, but when in the hell are apps going to run as smooth on Android as they do on an ipad? I like everything about Android platform over ios, but it never runs apps as well. Use flipboard on an ipad and every app on the tab seems choppy and clumsy. Pulse is an excellent reader, and fine replacement, but I just want a smooth responsive scrolling experience.
Thing is android and IOS packages are built differently, where as apple sdk package already has everything needed to make a stable generic app for all IOS devices, the android version has to balance itself in terms of graphics and performance, what's built on an S2 and tested on one will differ on the 10.1, It's sad really
So, my question is, why do we want the 3.0 Kernel for Nook Tablet again? From what I recall, there were absolutely no changes from kernel 2.6 to 3.0, other than the naming. Only the "alpha-manliness", and the shuffle of old drivers or something along those lines.
Any Ducati stuff is provided in acclaim_update.zip isn't it?
Anyways, if someone could answer that, that'd be great.
Ok, I am not part of the dev team and I got my NT too late to have read the original reasoning behind development of a 3.0 kernel but after a bit of research I think I may have at least part of the picture.
The main reason for the development of a 3.0 kernel is to gain access to the Ducati hardware integrated into the OMAP 4430 that the NT uses. With the 2.6 kernel we can use only the dual core Cortex A9 part of the processor but if we can develop a Ducati driver it will allow use to use the Cortex M3 dual core (four cores total) for hardware video acceleration.
This is proving to be a challenge because TI will not release the source for the Ducati related kernel elements; they will only give us a binary version which is crippled for our device because it uses the wrong watchdog timer (GPtimer 11 vs GPtimer 10 which we need).
This all requires Kernel 3.0 because the binary for Ducati is built using this kernel. Aside from that, ICS is built for the 3.0 kernel branch and we should be keeping up (if not one step ahead) if possible.
That is what I've gotten so far but if any devs want to step in and correct, clarify, or add anything else, please feel free. Thanks guys for all your hard work!
Android ICS v4 was build upon kernel v3 and also the framework (api's)
It provides some elemental changes over Gingerbread like HWA of the gui so in plain words it takes the burden off the cpu and uses the gpu like Nvidia VDPAU (Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU
And Windows DXVA V2
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/cc307941(v=vs.85).aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_Video_Acceleration
Hardware-accelerated 2D drawing
All Android-powered devices running Android 4.0 are required to support hardware-accelerated 2D drawing. Developers can take advantage of this to add great UI effects while maintaining optimal performance on high-resolution screens, even on phones. For example, developers can rely on accelerated scaling, rotation, and other 2D operations, as well as accelerated UI components such as TextureView and compositing modes such as filtering, blending, and opacity.
As everyone thinks that no changes where made on kernel transportation to v3 from 2.6, later on many arm optimizations where sync to git from different sources that help to make the v3 kernel more feature full over v2.6.
For starters,
Linaro is pushing more and more advancements to the git for v3.
Ubuntu decided to support arm hardware in Server and Userbase because of those changes.
They are putting out a Plasma tablet with Arm Cortex A9 cpu 512mb Ram with kde Plasma interface as well as pushing theirs code onto the git also.
So in the v3 kernel we see things done right.
Another proof that kernel v3 done miracles to arm is the XBMC project.
Now we have an xbmc version for arm also.
This is no coincidence at all.
An important factor to all this is that Android does not run on a stock Linux kernel. The source code for each Android release also includes a large number of Android-specific changes to the Linux kernel, including custom features and even entire subsystems. Each release of the Android OS is developed hand-in-hand with a specific kernel version and its changes, and ICS was developed around a modified 3.0.1 kernel. Using an older kernel version could potentially require work in patching newer changes into an old kernel or hacking in workarounds instead of just focusing on drivers. This is why most ROMs aren't just jumping straight to the newest Linux 3.3 either. I don't know any specifics about what changes are important though
Many drivers available from all these outside sources have been built around this same Android 3.0.1 kernel version too, so the chances of issues are much smaller if you stick to the same version
Also, to clarify about the Linux numbering: you're correct that the 3.0 version itself didn't include any big changes over 2.6.39 so as to keep the focus on simply replacing "2.6" with "3" while sticking with the same development process. However since they started the 2.6 branch many years ago they have constantly added new features, new frameworks, and all kinds of significant changes in the 2.6.X/3.X sub-versions as the code became ready. There wasn't simply a 2.6 kernel there were many 2.6 kernels, and it changed a lot over time from the initial 2.6.0 version just as it continues to evolve with each 3.X version
demetris_I said:
Android ICS v4 was build upon kernel v3 and also the framework (api's)
It provides some elemental changes over Gingerbread like HWA of the gui so in plain words it takes the burden off the cpu and uses the gpu like Nvidia VDPAU (Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU
And Windows DXVA V2
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/cc307941(v=vs.85).aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_Video_Acceleration
Hardware-accelerated 2D drawing
All Android-powered devices running Android 4.0 are required to support hardware-accelerated 2D drawing. Developers can take advantage of this to add great UI effects while maintaining optimal performance on high-resolution screens, even on phones. For example, developers can rely on accelerated scaling, rotation, and other 2D operations, as well as accelerated UI components such as TextureView and compositing modes such as filtering, blending, and opacity.
As everyone thinks that no changes where made on kernel transportation to v3 from 2.6, later on many arm optimizations where sync to git from different sources that help to make the v3 kernel more feature full over v2.6.
For starters,
Linaro is pushing more and more advancements to the git for v3.
Ubuntu decided to support arm hardware in Server and Userbase because of those changes.
They are putting out a Plasma tablet with Arm Cortex A9 cpu 512mb Ram with kde Plasma interface as well as pushing theirs code onto the git also.
So in the v3 kernel we see things done right.
Another proof that kernel v3 done miracles to arm is the XBMC project.
Now we have an xbmc version for arm also.
This is no coincidence at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds good. But the nook Tablet is running Gingerbread, and it gets Ducati features. Doesn't that mean a 2.6 Kernel suffices the Ducati Susbsystem? Does moving to Kernel 3.0.x make it easier to crack Ducati? Hmm.
soshite said:
Sounds good. But the nook Tablet is running Gingerbread, and it gets Ducati features. Doesn't that mean a 2.6 Kernel suffices the Ducati Susbsystem? Does moving to Kernel 3.0.x make it easier to crack Ducati? Hmm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ducati wasn't the point because as you pointed out it already works with the original kernel, and it not working yet with this 3.0 kernel is an unfortunate side effect of the real goal.
Moving to a newer Android kernel apparently makes it much easier to get proper graphics acceleration working for apps and general user interface components. This hardware acceleration of the UI is why ICS can feel so much smoother than Honeycomb or Gingerbread. Without the proper kernel I think they have to resort to dirtier hacks into the rest of ICS to make it run properly. I'm admittedly a little fuzzy on the details though
Lets just say that moving to Kernel v3 will make full use of our hardware, something GB doesn't do right now.
boomn said:
This hardware acceleration of the UI is why ICS can feel so much smoother than Honeycomb or Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK Honeycomb has already the UI acceleration. But I haven't had any device with HC, is ICS really much smoother then HC? I didn't think so.
Aleq said:
AFAIK Honeycomb has already the UI acceleration. But I haven't had any device with HC, is ICS really much smoother then HC? I didn't think so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, Honeycomb is really heavy on the device. Honeycomb would be slower than ICS, as it would be ported and contains more contents than ICS. ICS was made to be the faster successor to HC.
Aleq said:
AFAIK Honeycomb has already the UI acceleration. But I haven't had any device with HC, is ICS really much smoother then HC? I didn't think so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was mistaken and you are correct. However, something under the hood was definitely changed or tweaked in regards to acceleration and how it is used because ICS does feel much smoother and more responsive throughout than Honeycomb did
I searched a bit and found this helpful article. Here are the most relevant quotes:
Android 3.0 Honeycomb gave developers the ability to turn on hardware acceleration, but it wasn’t toggled by default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to Romain Guy and Chet Haase (Android engineers):
“With this new pipeline, all drawing operations performed by the UI toolkit are carried out using the GPU. You’ll be happy to hear that Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich, brings an improved version of the hardware-accelerated 2D rendering pipeline to phones, starting with Galaxy Nexus. In Android 4.0 (API level 14), hardware acceleration, for the first time, is on by default for all applications.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have android phone with 1GHz processor and 256 MB total RAM, running custom ROM based on android 2.3.5.
I have found Android never been stable as iOS.
I want to handover my phone to my parent where they will not be using any specific android smart features. In fact, it will be used only as feature phone not smart phone.
I want to strip off all the app from android OS without affecting basing network functionality. Then I can install only specific apps. I think, this way I'll have better stable android device.
Can someone advise or provide link/info which apps can be safely removed from android 2.3.5 OS leaving behind so called "minimal android"?
Comparing Apple(s) to oranges, my friend. A 1 Ghz single core processor with 256 RAM and an outdated and not quite optimized version of Gingerbread with most likely poor Chinese coding of the software is not going to make for the most enjoyable experience. This has much less to do with Android than it does in the weak hardware and not as polished software from the manufacturer. But without knowing what kind of phone you have, we'd have no clue as to what you should or shouldn't freeze or uninstall.
es0tericcha0s said:
Comparing Apple(s) to oranges, my friend. A 1 Ghz single core processor with 256 RAM and an outdated and not quite optimized version of Gingerbread with most likely poor Chinese coding of the software is not going to make for the most enjoyable experience. This has much less to do with Android than it does in the weak hardware and not as polished software from the manufacturer. But without knowing what kind of phone you have, we'd have no clue as to what you should or shouldn't freeze or uninstall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply.
I agree, I have week hardware...which is weakest point.
I have micromax A57 which is an Indian brand may be Chinese base/hardware.
I am already running custom ROM and not stock ROM. At present, I am happy with it's performance after shifting to custom ROM (xzotica v2).
But before handing over it to someone, who is not quite aware of Android and techi....rather leaving it with lots of popups/unwanted FCs/slow performance, I am thinking to strip off it to best possible leaving only core android behind. Then I'll only add app really required.
I am just looking for general guideline if any....for android 2.3.5 minimum base files/apps....
How bout this one? http://forums.droidbeans.com/microm...optimized-rom-with-clean-flat-ui-like-kitkat/
es0tericcha0s said:
How bout this one? http://forums.droidbeans.com/microm...optimized-rom-with-clean-flat-ui-like-kitkat/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really appreciate your efforts.
I have checked this ROM earlier. It's good but some error, thats why it has not good user base also.
And, this is not what I'm looking for. I would like to remove all apps without affecting normal booting, not any FC's after removing apps and all radios working.
That's all what I want on my phone. My question regarding what apps can be removed is not ROM specific but android 2.3.5 specific.
Again thanking for your efforts.