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With the new wave of games optimised for Tegra 2 being released right now, I was just wondering if these games would still be playable on the Exynos.
I don't foresee any reason why they wouldn't be playable; they would just be less optimised.
Edit: Having stated that, perhaps some developers will find it easier to develop for just one chip, and leave the others out in the cold by having the application check the processor. Android is ridiculously fragmented.
The Exynos is more powerful than the Tegra 2 AFAIK so yes, the games do work... but the shaders (correct term?) differ so they might display incorrectly. Hope is not lost though, as Chainfire has created an app to deal with this. I think it's just called Chainfire 3D. There's a whole thread about it around here somewhere.
I've been looking for a more technical analysis of these SOCs and I have been trying to learn how the async CPU setup on the MSM8660 affects performance.
Nvidia claims that the power saving feature of our CPU (async) will inevitably cause a decrease in performance:
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/2...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+IntoMobile+(IntoMobile)
Does anyone have any comments on this? If this is the case, I am wondering if through software we can force both cores to run at the same voltage/frequency. I wonder if it would cause an increase in performance (at least in benchmarking). Many claim that the Evo 3d only gets medicore benchmark scores due to having asynchronous cores that are not being accurately benched. It would be interesting to verify this claim.
Also, does anyone know which SOC between the three I listed in the title is the highest in performance (not talking about useless benchmarks like quadrant)?
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
DarkManX4lf said:
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the 10-15% slower is nVidia's claim, not sure if its true.
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
xHausx said:
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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ttieder said:
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
xHausx said:
It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but is it possible to keep both cores at their full frequency? Setting the exynos or tegra 2 on performance mode makes both cores stay at their maximum frequency since they are synchronous. I think setting performance mode on the Evo 3d would only guarantee that one of the core will remain at its full frequency.
Not sure about this of course. Anyone have any insight into this?
Second Core wouldnt kick in if ur not heavily multitasking or running multithreaded apps and u wouldnt need second core for minor multitasking or single threaded operations as single core is enough
i will tell you that on paper the msmx60 should beat out all, but in real world use, the exynos hammers everything. the s2 is a beast
The Exynos is the better SoC, plain and simple. If we get into GPU discussions, the Adreno 220 is the best, as in better than Mali 400.. Go to Anandtech, and watch them use a Qualcomm device for the benches.
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Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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You could program the kernel to keep both cores at max frequency. Im not a developer but am sure something like this could be done
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
bballer71418 said:
Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ics will include all of the features that honeycomb has and honeycomb has 2d acceleration so yes
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Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
Drewmungus said:
Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fraps tends to lie with FPS.
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GPU acceleration will be nice. Hope we see ICS soon.
Sent from my EVO 3D w/ Tapatalk
It is known that the MSM8660 can achieve higher clock frequencies than the Exynos, though clock for clock the Exynos has better IPC.
As of right now the GSII beats the 3VO in both benchmarks and real world tests, but I suspect this is because Sense is a pig that takes far too much ram and system resources. HTC also seems to have poorer unoptimized drivers. In addition to this, the async CPUs of the 3VO may not be properly tested by current benchmarking tools.
I think comparing a rooted 3VO and a rooted GSII should be much closer. Imagine the MSM8660 at 1.8-2.0 Ghz both cores running full frequency with no Sense and other bloat to slow it down. Combine that with a hardware accelerated GUI and this phone should be amazing.
The Adreno GPU will get better over time... and will develop much faster than before. Since Qualcomm purchased the branch from AMD (ATi), there has been much improvement in a reasonably small amount of time. There are various claims that the Adreno 220 outperforms the Tegra 2. I havent seen a solid comparison of the Adreno 220 vs the Exynos although I have read that the Exynos is a very capable processor.
As they both stand in stock offering, the Samsung GS2 will be faster; it has tremendous less resources to move. I agree with what has been said about root & rom options: CM7 on the EVO 3D will likely result in unprecedented (real world) benchmarks .Also note that the current Android releases are not yet optimized for dual/quad core management. But rest assured, it is well under development and the Sprint EVO 4G4D (hypothetical name) will behold a treasure trove of menacing capabilities.
HTC + Qualcomm + Android = Future
I think we should just wait until we can do a head-to-head AOSP CM 7 benchmark/real world test to see what happens. I'm confident the SGSII will get shredded by the E3D.
It seems unfair to compare anything within the phone itself now, because of what each phone has to run. Sense is pretty tasking on our phones and I can't say as much for the opposition.
It's funny to see NVIDIA make snide comments about Qualcomm when their phones are getting bested. Although I must say it is impressive to see that Tegra 2 phones are over a year old and keeping up with the E3D's dual-core deliciousness.
Just my thoughts.
Personally I don't believe Nvidia, plenty of benchmarks contradict their statement. That and whoever said "Additionally, the operating systems like Android and many apps aren’t set up for an asynchronous architecture." is an idiot because 99% of apps in the market don't support dual core lmfao.
-The Tegra 3 SoC (System on a chip) is a combo of a microprocessor, a memory controller, an audio processor, a video encoder and a graphics renderer. It's designed and manufactured by Nvidia, world leader of graphics computing, making it's first appearance in the Asus Transformer Prime.
-The Tegra 3 SoC has 5 physical cores, but limited to performance of quad-cores. The 5th, lower power core, is activated only when the device is idle or handling low tasks, such as syncing and e-mail checking. So, power consumption is always kept to minimum when performance of the quad-core is not needed, ensuring longer battery life. Once you run a normal or higher-demanding task on the tablet, the 5th core shuts off automatically before the 4 main cores are activated. This is all the bios of the chip and doesn't require the user or the developer to change anything to use the Android OS and application this way. Android OS already has a the best support for multi-tasking and is multi-threaded friendly compared to competing operating systems in the market. So, this should be good news of the Asus Transformer Prime to-be users soon.
-The GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) in the Tegra 3 Soc has 12 shaders. But, because Nvidia has not followed a unified-shader architecture in this ARM SoC like they've been doing in their PC and MAC discrete graphics cards, 8 of those 12 shaders are reserved for pixel work and the remaining 4 are for vertex. Maybe Nvidia will use unified-shader architecture in the next generation Tegra SoC'es, when the ARM-based devices are ready for it. The PowerVR MP2 GPU in the iPad 2 has more raw power than the Tegra 3 GPU (Actually, it's the only one thing I personally like about the iPad 2, it's GPU!), but the Tegra 3 Geforce (the commercial name Nvidia uses for their gaming graphics processors) should give a solid 3D performance in games, especially the officially supported games. Nvidia has long history in 3D gaming and been using it's solid connections with game developers to bring higher quality gaming to Android, like what we've seen with Tegra 2 SoC capabilities in games listed in the TegraZone Android app. Add to that, games are not just GPU bound, Tegra 3's quad-cores and 1GB system RAM (iPad has 512MB) will pump up gaming qualities for sure and the pixel density of 149ppi displays crisper images than the 132ppi of the iPad 2. Once the Asus Prime is released, it can be officially considered the highest performing Android device in the world, especially 3D gaming.
Well, I thought I'd have more to type, I paused for a long time and could not think of anything to add. I only wanted to share few things I know about the Tegra 3. I have high interest in computer graphics/processors and been following the Tegra project since 2008.
Some of the Asus Prime to-be-owners doesn't know or care that much about technical details of the CPU in the device and I thought of sharing with them.
Thanks and gold luck.
Thanks for the info. Very interesting
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
I am most exited about the tablet because of the tegra 3.
In smartphones I find the idea of putting more than one core quite rubbish.
It is not the best solution for a tablet or any other mobile device too. I would highly appreciate a well programmed software over overpowered hardware.
Yet the tegra has a nice concept.
I think most of the time I won't use more than that 5th core. I mean it is even powerful enough to play HD video.
I will primarily use apps that display text and images. Like the browser who is said to utilize 4 cores. But I am sure only because of the crappy programming.
So if people finally come to their minds and start optimizing their apps we will have one quite powerful core and 4 in backup for REAL needs. Seems like an investment in the future for me.
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Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 3 (Kal-El) series
Processor: quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore, up to 1.4 GHz single-core mode and 1.3 GHz multi-core mode
12-Core Nvidia GPU with support for 3D stereo
Ultra low power GPU mode
40 nm process by TSMC
Video output up to 2560×1600
NEON vector instruction set
1080p MPEG-4 AVC/h.264 40 Mbps High-Profile, VC1-AP and DivX 5/6 video decode[18]
The Kal-El chip (CPU and GPU) is to be about 5 times faster than Tegra 2[19]
Estimated release date is now to be Q4 2011 for tablets and Q1 2012 for smartphones, after being set back from Nvidia's prior estimated release dates of Q2 2011,[20] then August 2011,[21] then October 2011[22]
The Tegra 3 is functionally a quad-core processor, but includes a fifth "companion" core. All cores are Cortex-A9s, but the companion core is manufactured with a special low power silicon process. This means it uses less power at low clock rates, but more at higher rates; hence it is limited to 500 MHz. There is also special logic to allow running state to be quickly transferred between the companion core and one of the normal cores. The goal is for a mobile phone or tablet to be able to power down all the normal cores and run on only the companion core, using comparatively little power, during standby mode or when otherwise using little CPU. According to Nvidia, this includes playing music or even video content.[23]
Tegra 3 officially released on November 9, 2011[/LEFT][/CENTER][/FONT]
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
xTRICKYxx said:
Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
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jerrykur said:
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
RussianMenace said:
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Correction: Tegra 3 supports DDR2 AND DDR3. The original Transformer had 1GB of DDR2 @ 667Mhz. The Prime has 1GB of LPDDR2 @ 1066Mhz, a considerable bump in speed. Also, Tegra 3 supports up to DDR3 @ 1500Mhz!
xTRICKYxx said:
I think the only compatible RAM would be DDR2. Clock speeds don't matter, as the Tegra 3 can be OC'd to 2Ghz no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
RussianMenace said:
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
doeboy1984 said:
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the pictures, it doesn't look like the RAM will be removable or upgradeable (the RAM is the Elpida chip right next to the processor).
xTRICKYxx said:
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it wasn't.
What I said is that both Tegra 2 and now Tegra 3 have a single 32-bit wide memory interface when compared to the two on the A5,Exynos,Qualcom, and OMAP4 chips. What that means is that theoretically it will have lower bandwidth which may cause problems with upcoming games, especially considering that you now have to feed extra cores and a beefier GPU. Now, whether or not it will actually be an issue...we will have to see.
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. Also apple has the apps n games that showcase and utilize all this extra power. Even my original iPad has apps/games that I haven't seen Android dual core equivalents of. I love my iPad but I also own Atix dual core Tegra 2 phone. I know the open sourced Android will win out in the end.
I came across a good comment in the lenovo specs link that a member here posted in this thread.
"Google and NVidia need to seriously subsidize 3rd party app development to show ANY value and utility over iPad. Apple won't rest on its laurels as their GPU performance on the A5 is already ahead with games and APPs to prove it".
What do you all think about this? Not trying to thread jack as I see it's relevant to this thread also. What apps/games does Android have up it's sleeve to take advantage of this new Tegra3? Majority of Android apps/games don't even take advantage of tegra2 and similar SOC yet. Are we going to have all this extra power for a while without it never really being used to it's potential. Android needs some hardcore apps n games. iPad has all the b.s. Stuff also BUT has very hardcore apps n games also to use it to close to full potential. IMO my iPad 1 jail broken still trumps most of these Tegra 2 tablets out now. Not because of hardware specs, but because of the quality of apps n games I have. I've noticed Android is finally starting to get more hardcore games like ShadowGun, game loft games, etc.. I can't over clock or customize my iPad as extensively as Android but the software/apps/games I have are great. No, I don't want an ipad2 or ipad3. I want an Android tablet now because of more potential with it. Just like with anything in life, potential doesn't mean sh$& if it's not utilized and made a reality.
I was a windows mobile person first. Then I experienced dual booting with XDAndroid on my tilt 2, I loved it. Then I knew I wanted a real android phone or tablet. First Android tablet I owned, for only a day, was the Archos7IT. It was cool but returned it since it couldn't connect to my WMwifirouter, which uses ad-hoc network. So I researched n finally settled on taking a chance with the apple iPad. I use to be an apple hater to the max..lol. My iPad changed all of that. I still hate the closed system of apple but I had to admit, the iPad worked great for what I needed and wanted to do. This iPad, I'm writing this post on now, still works flawlessly after almost 2 years and it's specs are nowhere compared to iPad 2 or all these new dual core tablets out. I'm doing amazing stuff with only 256mb of ram..SMH I hated having to hook iPad up to iTunes for everything like music n videos. So I jail broke and got Ifiles, which is basically a very detailed root file explorer. I also have the USB n SD card adapter. So now I could put my content on my iPad myself without needing to be chained to iTunes. iTunes only good for software updates. I'm still on 4.2.1 jail broken firmware on iPad. Never bothered or really wanted to upgrade to the new IOS 5.01 out now. With all my jailbreak mods/tweaks, I've been doing most new stuff people are now being able to do. All apple did was implement jailbreak tweaks into their OS, for the most part.
Sorry for the long rant. I'm just excited on getting new Prime tegra3 tablet. I just hope the apps/games start rolling out fast that really take advantage of this power. And I don't just mean tegrazone stuff..lol. Android developers going to have to really step their game up once these new quad cores come out. Really even now with dual cores also. I'm a fan of technology in general. Competition only makes things better. Android is starting to overtake apple in sales or similar categories. Only thing is Android hasn't gotten on par with apple quality apps yet. Like the iPad tablet only apps are very numerous. Lots are b.s. But tons are very great also. I'm just hoping Amdroid tablet only apps will be same quality at least or better. I'm not looking to get new quad core tablet to play angry birds or other kiddy type games. I'm into productivity, media apps, and hardcore games, like Rage HD, NOVA2, Modern Combat 3, Order n Chaos, InfinityBlade, ShadowGun, etc.. All of which I have and more on my almost 2 year old iPad 1.
Asus, with being the first manufacturer to come out with quad core tablet and super IPS + display, might just be the last push needed to get things really rolling for Android, as far as high quality software amd tablet optimized OS goes. Can't wait to see how this plays out .
---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point, just as I was saying basically in my long post..lol
nook-color said:
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. Actually, the "5th" core is licensed with ARM A7 instructions set, the quads are A9.
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. Just like saying why Xbox360 and PS3 consoles can still push high quality graphics compared to a new high-end PC? Unity of hardware plays a big role there.
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
CyberPunk7t9 said:
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because these days, most PC games are console ports.
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
e.mote said:
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that true? NTFS support? Are you sure? Can you link me to a spec for that? If so then I can transfer files from my SD to an external NTFS without using Windows! That would be great for trips when I need to dump digital pics.
Does anyone else notice that the graphics in games on the S3 really suck?!! I have played Homerun 3D on my Nexus and it looked great but on the S3, it's pixilated and doesn't look so good. Does anyone else notice the same issue with games you play? Is there anything we can do (I suspect not)? All this RAM is great and all but I'd like a better graphical experience when playing games on this beast.
Any other graphic issues...post then here and share. :good:
Well the short answer is for high end mobile gaming you don't have the strongest phone available. The GPU in the US version that is included in the Qualcomm S4 Krait is the Adreno 225. It is no slouch but the Mali 400 which is included in the International S3 is stronger overall.
My question to you(anyone reading) is Should we expect every top end phone to perform admirably in games by default?
I would like to think not. That is a category for devices such as Playstation Vita and Nintendo DSi.
From the reviews I have seen online though there was no perceivable difference between the US and International GSIII when playing games, but of course there will be some games that use the hardware differently and will exploit potential bottlenecks. Synthetic benchmarks will also favor the raw horsepower of the International variant at times, other times not so much. Anything heavily relying on the GPU will favor the International variant.
Remember this device is brand spanking new and running early code. There are many many months of updates and improvements to come. The truth is by most accounts (other than biased fanboys who will no doubt jump on this) with the newer A15 based architecture Krait CPU, 2GB of ram and LTE, you got the better long term solution in a handset compared to the older A9 based Exynos in the International variant. Your handset in my humble opinion but based on the actual hardware capability will perform better a year from now for instance that the International, in things other than gaming.
Bottom Line:
If playing games on your phone is really important to you, you may want to consider trading for a different device.
[email protected]
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
jamesnmandy said:
Well the short answer is for high end mobile gaming you don't have the strongest phone available. The GPU in the US version that is included in the Qualcomm S4 Krait is the Adreno 225. It is no slouch but the Mali 400 which is included in the International S3 is stronger overall.
My question to you(anyone reading) is Should we expect every top end phone to perform admirably in games by default?
I would like to think not. That is a category for devices such as Playstation Vita and Nintendo DSi.
From the reviews I have seen online though there was no perceivable difference between the US and International GSIII when playing games, but of course there will be some games that use the hardware differently and will exploit potential bottlenecks. Synthetic benchmarks will also favor the raw horsepower of the International variant at times, other times not so much. Anything heavily relying on the GPU will favor the International variant.
Remember this device is brand spanking new and running early code. There are many many months of updates and improvements to come. The truth is by most accounts (other than biased fanboys who will no doubt jump on this) with the newer A15 based architecture Krait CPU, 2GB of ram and LTE, you got the better long term solution in a handset compared to the older A9 based Exynos in the International variant. Your handset in my humble opinion but based on the actual hardware capability will perform better a year from now for instance that the International, in things other than gaming.
Bottom Line:
If playing games on your phone is really important to you, you may want to consider trading for a different device.
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How is this relevant to his comparison? First off yes the adreno 225 isn't the top dog but it DESTROYS the gpu in the omap 4460.
As far as the ops question - email the developer to see if your device is supported yet. The S3 is brand new and not every device is supported yet. The omap 4 series was hugely popular so most games support it very nicely. The snapdragon s4 chip has won ton of NA design wins so with in a month or so you should see great support.
For the love of god.... Let the gpu comparison go. Mali is better but adreno is still faster than any other chip set out there (not sure about new ipad)
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
benefit14snake said:
How is this relevant to his comparison? First off yes the adreno 225 isn't the top dog but it DESTROYS the gpu in the omap 4460.
As far as the ops question - email the developer to see if your device is supported yet. The S3 is brand new and not every device is supported yet. The omap 4 series was hugely popular so most games support it very nicely. The snapdragon s4 chip has won ton of NA design wins so with in a month or so you should see great support.
For the love of god.... Let the gpu comparison go. Mali is better but adreno is still faster than any other chip set out there (not sure about new ipad)
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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What????
I gave a very relevant example of a comparative device that would perform better in games. That's how it's relevant, more relevant that comparing it to the OMAP 4460. He would probably like to have better gaming performance but still have the things he likes about his current phone....the International GSIII with the Mali400 GPU is the best pick to fit that bill.
I don't understand your confusion or your obvious angst. Everything said was comprehensively on topic and constructive.
jamesnmandy said:
What????
I gave a very relevant example of a comparative device that would perform better in games. That's how it's relevant.
I don't understand your confusion or your obvious angst. Everything said was comprehensively on topic and constructive.
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The comparison of the Mali gpu and adreno has nothing to do with his problem. This issue has been beat to death over and over again. If he is having issues it isn't because his gpu can not handle it. It's because either the app hasn't been updated. Or maybe he changed his build prop (some roms do this) and the app is taking it out of native resolution.
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benefit14snake said:
The comparison of the Mali gpu and adreno has nothing to do with his problem. This issue has been beat to death over and over again. If he is having issues it isn't because his gpu can not handle it. It's because either the app hasn't been updated. Or maybe he changed his build prop (some roms do this) and the app is taking it out of native resolution.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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Well in my original post I also mentioned the fact that these devices are running early code and updates could improve performance.....I don't understand why giving him the next best option, and the reasons why is such a big deal.
jamesnmandy said:
Well in my original post I also mentioned the fact that these devices are running early code and updates could improve performance.....I don't understand why giving him the next best option, and the reasons why is such a big deal.
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I'm not going to turn this into a flame war.
Op - check with the developer if stock and await a response. If you are running a rom check within the rom developers original post to see if there were build prop changes, and if so go back to stock (if this game is important to you)
You can also try a reinstall as it looks like the game may only look at the build prop on the original run. I installed it myself and it looked good but I also didn't compare it to a nexus.
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I have HomeRunBattle3D on my stock GS3 and it bats it out of the park!
(sorry)
I realize I didn't by a gaming device but I just thought that the graphics would at least be on par with the Nexus. Thank you for pointing out about the updates and such, I forgot about that. Maybe developers will optimize some of their apps for the S3 the more popular it gets.
I attached a screenshot from my phone of the game I was playing. Look at the skyline and the pixelisation. That is what I was talking about. It's kinda choppy when you hit a home run...not as smooth like it was on Nexus. All in all though...no big deal really. I just wondered why it was like that is all. Great discussion though!! Thank you!! :good:
I get a snag here and there with every game I play.
Hey guys! Just got my Nexus 10 an am thrilled with it.
Has anyone set up FPSE on it? I downloaded it and installed a bios etc. but when I try to play a game (I ripped an old copy of Star Wars Jedi power battles I found in a box in my room) the graphics do not load properly. I have tried with and without the Opengl plugin. Does anyone have any insight? I have played with the settings for video as well but am not really sure what to change to fix this. I'm running paranoid android if that has any effect...
Edit:
OK Turned off OPENGL and now the graphics load perfectly! Theyre not as smoothed as they would have been I guess, but at least I can play now!! The only thing is that the game seems to be moving is fast motion! I'll try the frame limiter and report back
Twisted metal
Can Twisted Metal be played on Google Nexus 10? I think that game will be awesome to play in touch screen mode.
lidzhet said:
Can Twisted Metal be played on Google Nexus 10? I think that game will be awesome to play in touch screen mode.
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I'm sure it can. I got a couple of my old games working flawlessly now. The framerate limiter stops the games from being payed in fast forward. Doesn't look like the Nexus 10 is playing nice with opengl though, will have to see if there is an update to allow this to work.
I doubt nexus 10 will ever work with opengl. It uses the frame rate of the nexus 10 to upscale. Don't think the tablet can handle that kind of processing demand.
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duarian said:
I doubt nexus 10 will ever work with opengl. It uses the frame rate of the nexus 10 to upscale. Don't think the tablet can handle that kind of processing demand.
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And why do you think that?
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ady_seray said:
And why do you think that?
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Because upscaling a ps1 game to 2560x1600 resolution is going to take more than a dual core processor and onboard GPU. Its on a resolution basis...the higher the resolution the more demanding.
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duarian said:
Because upscaling a ps1 game to 2560x1600 resolution is going to take more than a dual core processor and onboard GPU. Its on a resolution basis...the higher the resolution the more demanding.
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True but then why do games like dead trigger and vice city work in 2560x1600 with very good fps, and a 14 year old ps1 game would not.
Personally I think it can handle it easily (if a tegra 3 can do it then the exynos 5 can do it blindfolded, hands tied to the back, one foot chopped off and thrown into the sea with a boulder tied to its neck)
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Because game emulation =/= PC games.
Emulating games take much more CPU power than modern PC games mainly because those PS1 games were made for a PS1 and not a PC. That would be why you can't just stick in your PS1 disc and play the game. The emulator makes the game readable by the PC and that takes tons of power.
Emulating games take about 100x the power of the original system. So while the CPU frequency won't translate directly to 100x, the architecture of the CPU also is taken into account.
EDIT: I consider Android games PC games since the gap between PCs and mobile devices are starting to close.
404 ERROR said:
Because game emulation =/= PC games.
Emulating games take much more CPU power than modern PC games mainly because those PS1 games were made for a PS1 and not a PC. That would be why you can't just stick in your PS1 disc and play the game. The emulator makes the game readable by the PC and that takes tons of power.
Emulating games take about 100x the power of the original system. So while the CPU frequency won't translate directly to 100x, the architecture of the CPU also is taken into account.
EDIT: I consider Android games PC games since the gap between PCs and mobile devices are starting to close.
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Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
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ady_seray said:
Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
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While I don't understand all the basics -- I can see the point though if it's trying to upscale the resolution.
2560x1600 = 4096000 pixels
320x240 = 76800 pixels (most common ps1 resolution)
So if you figure that you're running about 60fps...
That's information for 241152000 more pixels in a second that it needs to create information for.
Depending on the efficiency of the algorithm in the emulator/openGL code -- it's very possible it can tax the system. Remember also the heat throttle on the N10 which will reduce its performance below what you might expect it to max out at. I also think you're overestimating the power of an N10 to a PC. Think more maybe along the lines of a netbook or older laptop if trying to find a power comparable just because of all the differences in the architecture (for example you don't have the entire system in a single chip... there will be bottlenecks in the N10).
ady_seray said:
Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
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I never said it wouldn't work on the N10. Your reasoning behind emulation was just wrong so I felt the need to correct it. This way, you will probably now understand why you can't emulate PS3 and xbox360 games on your computer. It won't happen anytime soon.
Emulation also depends on the emulator. If it's well-coded, then it'll emulate things well. If it's not, well then you'll get slow downs. I never used FPse so I don't know how great it is, but I'm assuming it's good.
Anyway, most likely than not, the N10 can probably emulate PS1 games. It probably can't emulate PS2 games at that resolution though.
The N10 emulates ps1 games fine. Its when you use openGL that it really has a performance hit. Which attempts to upscale everything to the resolution of the tablet...which is very high
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ceribaen said:
I also think you're overestimating the power of an N10 to a PC. Think more maybe along the lines of a netbook or older laptop if trying to find a power comparable just because of all the differences in the architecture (for example you don't have the entire system in a single chip... there will be bottlenecks in the N10).
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I guess I might be overestimating a bit, but my core2duo laptop had the same geekbench score as my (at the time) 2.0 GHz OC'ed N10, which was around 3000. My core2duo laptop can emulate ps2 games ok-ish that's why I believed the N10 can emulate PS1 games fine, because it's on par with my PC CPU.
The thermal throttle issue, while being a pressing and annoying one, can be reduced or eliminated entirely by upping the thermal limits with ktoonsez kernel.
Although I do agree that proper software is as important, or more important, than hardware, and that if the emulator is not coded properly it's useless to have all this horse power.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
I use ePSXe and it works very well. Open gl plugin is no good though as the device seems to process faster than the plugin is coded. Using hardware gpu works well enough but you will have original ps1 graphics.
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The Nexus 10 can easily emulate a PS1. The fact that the OP has been forced to use the frame limiter proves that the emulation was much faster than needed. Also, even without the OpenGL plugin, you are already pushing the game at the native N10 resolution if you play full screen, so it's not a question of bandwidth or GPU because you're using the same number of pixels, accelerated or not.
What the OpenGL plugin brings is nicer graphics with less jaggies and the GPU of the N10 can easily handle the very low polygon count of the PS1 games. The benefit of that is to play PS1 games with even better graphics that on the original console. But, remanipulating the textures to fit an higher resolution is a difficult task and you end up with artifacts that were not originally there. The N10 GPU can handle the output but the problem is feeding it fast enough to keep the original framerate.
If you want to see some videos of emulation on the N10, you can watch this one and some others on the same Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9leFKGewvsM
As you will see, the N64 and PS1 emulator only take a fraction of the CPU power of the N10. Thermal throttling may be a factor on the N10 but not with those older consoles.
My N7 handles quite nicely the OpenGL plugin of FPSE. The Tegra3 chip isn't the most powerful out there but it has better support than the Exynos. That will change when N10s will finally be in the hands of all those that (like me!) are waiting for more stock to buy one. I live in Canada and, about 10 times a day, I check to see if the N10 is available on the Google Store. It's a very looooong wait...
I don't think it is possible to run fpse OpenGL currently on the Nexus 10. OpenGL is upscaling the graphics to 2560 x 1660 native, which is causing tremendous slowdown when you consider this + hardware comsumption of Console emulation. Is there any way we can recommend a "Resolution downscale" option for fpse? At LEAST bring the game down to 1920 x 1080p which is still a great resolution. It would be nice to NOT have an "MAX" or "MIN" setting, but an "In Between" regarding screen resolution.
Speed isn't the issue because if the OP had OpenGL disabled he was running in software mode which means it was only running off the CPU.
Nexus 10 isn't the issue because the GPU supports OpenGL 3.0 standard, so any OpenGL issues will be software related which means they can be fixed quite easily.
Only question is who needs to fix it, the emulator dev or Samsung driver team?
brees75 said:
Only question is who needs to fix it, the emulator dev or Samsung driver team?
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At this point in the development of an entirely new architecture it could be either one. We do know that the Mali GPU driver does have at least one issue already. Most likely though I would guess it would need to be fixed in the emulator software, because the people who create those while good, are not as good as the people working with those who design the hardware itself. And again, the software would need to be written to take advantage of an entirely new architecture. And Im not talking about the CPU only here. That is a pretty large architectural step for ARM too, but the GPU is a huge step in design. This is ARM's first unified shader architecture and both drivers and software need to be written differently to take advantage of such. The CPU is a large evolution of previous designs, the GPU has a lot of complete rework from the ground up.