Hey guys! Just got my Nexus 10 an am thrilled with it.
Has anyone set up FPSE on it? I downloaded it and installed a bios etc. but when I try to play a game (I ripped an old copy of Star Wars Jedi power battles I found in a box in my room) the graphics do not load properly. I have tried with and without the Opengl plugin. Does anyone have any insight? I have played with the settings for video as well but am not really sure what to change to fix this. I'm running paranoid android if that has any effect...
Edit:
OK Turned off OPENGL and now the graphics load perfectly! Theyre not as smoothed as they would have been I guess, but at least I can play now!! The only thing is that the game seems to be moving is fast motion! I'll try the frame limiter and report back
Twisted metal
Can Twisted Metal be played on Google Nexus 10? I think that game will be awesome to play in touch screen mode.
lidzhet said:
Can Twisted Metal be played on Google Nexus 10? I think that game will be awesome to play in touch screen mode.
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I'm sure it can. I got a couple of my old games working flawlessly now. The framerate limiter stops the games from being payed in fast forward. Doesn't look like the Nexus 10 is playing nice with opengl though, will have to see if there is an update to allow this to work.
I doubt nexus 10 will ever work with opengl. It uses the frame rate of the nexus 10 to upscale. Don't think the tablet can handle that kind of processing demand.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
duarian said:
I doubt nexus 10 will ever work with opengl. It uses the frame rate of the nexus 10 to upscale. Don't think the tablet can handle that kind of processing demand.
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And why do you think that?
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ady_seray said:
And why do you think that?
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
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Because upscaling a ps1 game to 2560x1600 resolution is going to take more than a dual core processor and onboard GPU. Its on a resolution basis...the higher the resolution the more demanding.
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duarian said:
Because upscaling a ps1 game to 2560x1600 resolution is going to take more than a dual core processor and onboard GPU. Its on a resolution basis...the higher the resolution the more demanding.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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True but then why do games like dead trigger and vice city work in 2560x1600 with very good fps, and a 14 year old ps1 game would not.
Personally I think it can handle it easily (if a tegra 3 can do it then the exynos 5 can do it blindfolded, hands tied to the back, one foot chopped off and thrown into the sea with a boulder tied to its neck)
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Because game emulation =/= PC games.
Emulating games take much more CPU power than modern PC games mainly because those PS1 games were made for a PS1 and not a PC. That would be why you can't just stick in your PS1 disc and play the game. The emulator makes the game readable by the PC and that takes tons of power.
Emulating games take about 100x the power of the original system. So while the CPU frequency won't translate directly to 100x, the architecture of the CPU also is taken into account.
EDIT: I consider Android games PC games since the gap between PCs and mobile devices are starting to close.
404 ERROR said:
Because game emulation =/= PC games.
Emulating games take much more CPU power than modern PC games mainly because those PS1 games were made for a PS1 and not a PC. That would be why you can't just stick in your PS1 disc and play the game. The emulator makes the game readable by the PC and that takes tons of power.
Emulating games take about 100x the power of the original system. So while the CPU frequency won't translate directly to 100x, the architecture of the CPU also is taken into account.
EDIT: I consider Android games PC games since the gap between PCs and mobile devices are starting to close.
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Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
ady_seray said:
Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
While I don't understand all the basics -- I can see the point though if it's trying to upscale the resolution.
2560x1600 = 4096000 pixels
320x240 = 76800 pixels (most common ps1 resolution)
So if you figure that you're running about 60fps...
That's information for 241152000 more pixels in a second that it needs to create information for.
Depending on the efficiency of the algorithm in the emulator/openGL code -- it's very possible it can tax the system. Remember also the heat throttle on the N10 which will reduce its performance below what you might expect it to max out at. I also think you're overestimating the power of an N10 to a PC. Think more maybe along the lines of a netbook or older laptop if trying to find a power comparable just because of all the differences in the architecture (for example you don't have the entire system in a single chip... there will be bottlenecks in the N10).
ady_seray said:
Well then, don't want to sound ignorant, if a PC cpu that has approximately the same performance as the cpu in the N10 ( the means of comparison being geekbench), is able to emulate PS2 games then it would easily emulate PS1 games.
Through deduction the N10 having a similar performance to that PC CPU should be able to easily emulate PS1 games. Hence why gentlemen I do believe that the n10 can breeze through PS1 games.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
I never said it wouldn't work on the N10. Your reasoning behind emulation was just wrong so I felt the need to correct it. This way, you will probably now understand why you can't emulate PS3 and xbox360 games on your computer. It won't happen anytime soon.
Emulation also depends on the emulator. If it's well-coded, then it'll emulate things well. If it's not, well then you'll get slow downs. I never used FPse so I don't know how great it is, but I'm assuming it's good.
Anyway, most likely than not, the N10 can probably emulate PS1 games. It probably can't emulate PS2 games at that resolution though.
The N10 emulates ps1 games fine. Its when you use openGL that it really has a performance hit. Which attempts to upscale everything to the resolution of the tablet...which is very high
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ceribaen said:
I also think you're overestimating the power of an N10 to a PC. Think more maybe along the lines of a netbook or older laptop if trying to find a power comparable just because of all the differences in the architecture (for example you don't have the entire system in a single chip... there will be bottlenecks in the N10).
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Click to collapse
I guess I might be overestimating a bit, but my core2duo laptop had the same geekbench score as my (at the time) 2.0 GHz OC'ed N10, which was around 3000. My core2duo laptop can emulate ps2 games ok-ish that's why I believed the N10 can emulate PS1 games fine, because it's on par with my PC CPU.
The thermal throttle issue, while being a pressing and annoying one, can be reduced or eliminated entirely by upping the thermal limits with ktoonsez kernel.
Although I do agree that proper software is as important, or more important, than hardware, and that if the emulator is not coded properly it's useless to have all this horse power.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
I use ePSXe and it works very well. Open gl plugin is no good though as the device seems to process faster than the plugin is coded. Using hardware gpu works well enough but you will have original ps1 graphics.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium
The Nexus 10 can easily emulate a PS1. The fact that the OP has been forced to use the frame limiter proves that the emulation was much faster than needed. Also, even without the OpenGL plugin, you are already pushing the game at the native N10 resolution if you play full screen, so it's not a question of bandwidth or GPU because you're using the same number of pixels, accelerated or not.
What the OpenGL plugin brings is nicer graphics with less jaggies and the GPU of the N10 can easily handle the very low polygon count of the PS1 games. The benefit of that is to play PS1 games with even better graphics that on the original console. But, remanipulating the textures to fit an higher resolution is a difficult task and you end up with artifacts that were not originally there. The N10 GPU can handle the output but the problem is feeding it fast enough to keep the original framerate.
If you want to see some videos of emulation on the N10, you can watch this one and some others on the same Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9leFKGewvsM
As you will see, the N64 and PS1 emulator only take a fraction of the CPU power of the N10. Thermal throttling may be a factor on the N10 but not with those older consoles.
My N7 handles quite nicely the OpenGL plugin of FPSE. The Tegra3 chip isn't the most powerful out there but it has better support than the Exynos. That will change when N10s will finally be in the hands of all those that (like me!) are waiting for more stock to buy one. I live in Canada and, about 10 times a day, I check to see if the N10 is available on the Google Store. It's a very looooong wait...
I don't think it is possible to run fpse OpenGL currently on the Nexus 10. OpenGL is upscaling the graphics to 2560 x 1660 native, which is causing tremendous slowdown when you consider this + hardware comsumption of Console emulation. Is there any way we can recommend a "Resolution downscale" option for fpse? At LEAST bring the game down to 1920 x 1080p which is still a great resolution. It would be nice to NOT have an "MAX" or "MIN" setting, but an "In Between" regarding screen resolution.
Speed isn't the issue because if the OP had OpenGL disabled he was running in software mode which means it was only running off the CPU.
Nexus 10 isn't the issue because the GPU supports OpenGL 3.0 standard, so any OpenGL issues will be software related which means they can be fixed quite easily.
Only question is who needs to fix it, the emulator dev or Samsung driver team?
brees75 said:
Only question is who needs to fix it, the emulator dev or Samsung driver team?
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At this point in the development of an entirely new architecture it could be either one. We do know that the Mali GPU driver does have at least one issue already. Most likely though I would guess it would need to be fixed in the emulator software, because the people who create those while good, are not as good as the people working with those who design the hardware itself. And again, the software would need to be written to take advantage of an entirely new architecture. And Im not talking about the CPU only here. That is a pretty large architectural step for ARM too, but the GPU is a huge step in design. This is ARM's first unified shader architecture and both drivers and software need to be written differently to take advantage of such. The CPU is a large evolution of previous designs, the GPU has a lot of complete rework from the ground up.
Related
I just ordered my Galaxy S II from the UK, but there has been a question hangin over my head.
Will games that are optimized for Tegra 2 ( such as games in Tegra Zone ) work on the Galaxy S II with the Exynos chipset?
mahdibassam said:
I just ordered my Galaxy S II from the UK, but there has been a question hangin over my head.
Will games that are optimized for Tegra 2 ( such as games in Tegra Zone ) work on the Galaxy S II with the Exynos chipset?
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Click to collapse
nope.
dungeon defender hd which was optimized for tegra did not work. samurai 2 does not work either.a real bummer
awesome-member said:
nope.
dungeon defender hd which was optimized for tegra did not work. samurai 2 does not work either.a real bummer
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Click to collapse
Friut ninja hd, also doesnt work. Says that its optimised for tegra devices only.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
From reading other comments elsewhere it appeared that the Exynos chipset was better than the Tegra 2, or is the Tegra 2 just better in games?...
Tegra games will not work on any other GPU ATM
galaxy s and nexus s PowerVR sgx 540 and other high end GPUs are more than capable of running "tegra 2" games.
Not to mention the tegra 2 really isn't that much faster than the SGS NS sgx540 tegra has two CPU cores and from what i gathered when gaming it dedicated one core for system and the other strictly for games when gaming.
Nvidia is paying off developers just like they do on PC. only difference between mobile and PC though is that PC "nvidia meant to be played" games will still work on ATI
Not the same with other mobile GPUs unfortunately
Nvidia is ruining android by doing this exclusive BS
Also the SGS2 GPU should be on par if not faster than the tegra 2
^ Gotcha thanks!...
Not sure if this has been answered before, but this post seems like a good place for this discussion...
1. Why did samsung launch a phone under two different cpu's...
2. Doesn't this mean that when samsung goes to release an android update for the phone they have to make two different updates, one for each cpu?
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Skycake 21 said:
Not sure if this has been answered before, but this post seems like a good place for this discussion...
1. Why did samsung launch a phone under two different cpu's...
2. Doesn't this mean that when samsung goes to release an android update for the phone they have to make two different updates, one for each cpu?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
1. Probably due to the limited supply of Exynos CPUs
2. No, unless there needs to be a new driver written for the CPU (which is highly unlikely)
Nvidia is just causing some more fragmentation. As if we needed anymore.
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Not only that but AMD is actually getting into the Android hardware game so it's about to get even messier. I hope Google comes out with some kind of DirectX thing to help with this.
well this cant go on forever because HTC sensation also comin out with a different cpu. so we should see the games released in different versions for all dual core phones pretty soon.
mahdibassam said:
well this cant go on forever because HTC sensation also comin out with a different cpu. so we should see the games released in different versions for all dual core phones pretty soon.
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Wouldnt worry to much about that Most game developers make sure their game run on a wide selection of phones. Addapting a game to run on a new phone is not a lot of work, but increases the market potential. As mentioned before, Nvidia is paying developers to make the game tegra2 only. And luckely Nvidia is the only one doing this so far. A direct X solution for android could be a good medicine against the fragmentation, but I do know a certain hackers community that makes tegra 2 games playable on other devices. (have been playing galaxy on fire 2 for a while now) But XDA doesnt support linking to pirated software so I cannot share this, im sorry. (Google is your friend )
If the range of tegra 2 games will grow, there will be more interest in porting those games. Since its not very hard. Lets hope the hackers destroy the fragmentation haha.
As long as game developers stick to OpenGL ES specifications, all devices will be able to play the game (current). The device with more powerful GPU will obviously play it better.
What Nvidia is doing with Tegra is that they are making the sponsored game developers use the proprietary texture compression format that only Tegra Devices can run. This is what I have against Tegra Zone and Tegra as whole. The last thing we want is Nvidia playing dirty games they tried to play in PC gaming arena (they still do to some extent with PhysX and CUDA ).
So there is no real need to worry about developers having to code the game for each GPU core out there. Sensation might have different GPU but it will be OpenGL ES 2.x compatible just like Mali and others.
mahdibassam said:
I just ordered my Galaxy S II from the UK, but there has been a question hangin over my head.
Will games that are optimized for Tegra 2 ( such as games in Tegra Zone ) work on the Galaxy S II with the Exynos chipset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung galaxy s and Desire HD can run tegra game ... why would world's fastest phone cannot run it????
Ur solution here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSAJptywT8Q
Below the video , see description.. he has attached all files needed...
U need to root ur SGS2 and Install chaifire 3d... install nvidia driver.. it will run flawlessly....
here.. .http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1087427
http://samsunggalaxysforums.com/showthread.php/4949-Tegra-only-games-now-working-in-SGSII!
Enjoy...
mahdibassam said:
I just ordered my Galaxy S II from the UK, but there has been a question hangin over my head.
Will games that are optimized for Tegra 2 ( such as games in Tegra Zone ) work on the Galaxy S II with the Exynos chipset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but you'll need to Root, download Chainfire3D and the NVidia Tegra patch.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1090032
I can confirm this works for some games...
These are the games I've tested thus far:
Samurai II: Vengeance runs very well - However their is a bug with opening the combo draw.
Pinball HD for Tegra runs flawlessly
Riptide GP doesn't load at all - Just a black screen and then crash to homescreen.
When I have the money I'll buy the other games later and post results later.
Our phones also use an OpenGL compression which no other phone uses as of this moment, so there is nearly 0 support for it at the moment
EDIT: I forgot to mention this is with the use of Chainfire 3D with the Tegra plugin.
Pinball HD is running even on my Xperia X10 with Chainfire 3d...
Samurai 2 ... runs on low texture but not playable on x10.... but i have seen videos of it running on SGS and Desire HD... so it will run on sgs2 too
Dont know about other games...
A Nintendo gamecube emulator? There are ngc emulators out there for Mac & pc, butI was wondering if it can be possible for high end android. Now That would be awesome.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Do you by chance know the clock speed of a nintendo gamecube? Emulators usaully use 100x the processing power. I don't think its possible unless the processing speed is lower than 13 mhz
ragul40 said:
I don't think its possible unless the processing speed is lower than 13 mhz
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The PS1 has a clock speed of 33.8688MHz and 1GHz+ devices can easily play it's games (even lower-end devices can play some at full speed). Specs of the Nintendo Gamecube:
485MHz custom CPU with 162MHz custom graphics processor
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Can we play Onlive games with our x8?
i've tried to install some apk's but i got Fc's
can someone help me?
kingsize623 said:
Can we play Onlive games with our x8?
i've tried to install some apk's but i got Fc's
can someone help me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Onlive? U mean the online gaming service that streams high end games like assassins creed and other xbox type games to your PC... LOL
I serious doubt you can play those games with a touch screen bro...
Sent from Planet Nibiru, year TUC.13
ofc we can,just go to search button and search for flash player 10.2,after that instal it and reboot,now u can play online games,kongrate and stuff
BE SURE THAT U ARE SEARCHIN FOR :ARMV 6 FLASH PLAYER
and go to your web browser and u should be able to play online games on miniclip and kongrate
thanks?
I think everyone here misunderstood the OP. There is a free app called OnLive which do exactly the same as on PC, with one important difference: a lots of games are made to work with touch screen. The sad thing about it that it works only with ARMv7 CPUs. BTW I have played with Darksiders 30minute demo (console and PC game) on a 10" tablet with single core1ghz armv7 cpu and MALI400 gpu. It was smooth (yeah of course it was smooth, there is a huge server park where the game is really running and streaming the video to phone), but it needs at least 15Mbit download speed. So it is working, but only on ARMv7.
Sent from my E15 using XDA App
Asycid said:
I think everyone here misunderstood the OP. There is a free app called OnLive which do exactly the same as on PC, with one important difference: a lots of games are made to work with touch screen. The sad thing about it that it works only with ARMv7 CPUs. BTW I have played with Darksiders 30minute demo (console and PC game) on a 10" tablet with single core1ghz armv7 cpu and MALI400 gpu. It was smooth (yeah of course it was smooth, there is a huge server park where the game is really running and streaming the video to phone), but it needs at least 15Mbit download speed. So it is working, but only on ARMv7.
Sent from my E15 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh,never mind then...
Asycid said:
I think everyone here misunderstood the OP. There is a free app called OnLive which do exactly the same as on PC, with one important difference: a lots of games are made to work with touch screen. The sad thing about it that it works only with ARMv7 CPUs. BTW I have played with Darksiders 30minute demo (console and PC game) on a 10" tablet with single core1ghz armv7 cpu and MALI400 gpu. It was smooth (yeah of course it was smooth, there is a huge server park where the game is really running and streaming the video to phone), but it needs at least 15Mbit download speed. So it is working, but only on ARMv7.
Sent from my E15 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
yes you understood.
i think speed is not a problem.
ive played ac brotherhood and maffia 2 on a realy slow pc with fiberglass (120/MB)
whitouth lagg!
is there a armv6 port?
kingsize623 said:
yes you understood.
i think speed is not a problem.
ive played ac brotherhood and maffia 2 on a realy slow pc with fiberglass (120/MB)
whitouth lagg!
is there a armv6 port?
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Click to collapse
With my best knowledge, there aren't any armv6 port, but I don't know if there will be any in the future. I hope someone will port it because the cloud gaming system could be a very very good thing on lower spec devices, especially for x8 because the screen size is small, the resolution is small, so I think it could easily handle the stream. Notice that a 1ghz tablet with 1024x768 resolution is smoothly played the stream, so I think it will be smooth on our device, and to be honest it will have more clear image quality. So I am hoping that in the future it will be ported to armv6.
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Can someone help me? Why tegra 3 games doesn't launch on the s3 ? And the s3 has better processor!
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Maybe because they're made for the tegra 3 not exynos.
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louayjoumaa said:
Can someone help me? Why tegra 3 games doesn't launch on the s3 ? And the s3 has better processor!
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Click to collapse
Mate tegra 3 has a different or addition Gpu instructions Set proprietary from Nvidia that others gpu doesn't have and make games on tegra look a little bit better.
And this is not about who has the fastest Cpu but about GPU so tegra 3 will never launch as far as I know on others cpu as the exynos for example on Samsung because Mali Gpu doesnt not simple have the requirement in orther to run Tegra Games
Hope it helps
Cheeers
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so what ur telling me basicly is, the samsungs are better for raw processing power. But for games and video things the HTC's are better?
Kinda like xbox, the xbox has a better gpu.
games like dead trigger just require a file edit to enable all tegra specific ****s as they call, its just a software trick which can by bypassed by some well known dev. atleast for some of the tegra based games
soulzero said:
so what ur telling me basicly is, the samsungs are better for raw processing power. But for games and video things the HTC's are better?
Kinda like xbox, the xbox has a better gpu.
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Click to collapse
No exactly... but yes Samsung has a pretty decent raw processing power and in some case like HTc one x vs S3 exynos dominate the Htc in cpu power..but Tegra Gpu is not really better than let say others Gpu for example mali400 or adreno 320 as far as gaming benchmark is concern but as I said it has just some extra instructions set or api that make the game look better...like more intensive smoke effect, better lightning , better water reproduction etc. And yes I believe that game will be better for hardcore gamer (lol) on tegra devices like HTC one X for example ( with only supported Tegra Games)
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but as I said it has just some extra instructions set or api that make the game look better...like more intensive smoke effect, better lightning
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Click to collapse
Regardless of what movies suggest, a processor does not have commands for "make that game look awesome" or "add lightning here". All they are capable of doing is trigonometric manipulation with dots, lines, triangles and squares.
Here's a short and somewhat technical description on how e.g. illumination is calculated. As you can see, nothing but lots of math - not a prepared and ready-for-use command
http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems2/gpugems2_chapter38.html
The difference between Exynos and Tegra is that Nvidia actually cares a lot about getting developers on their platform. (Well it is their last straw in mobile computing and they are pretty much f*** if that fails since they only sell parts, not entire platforms)
As a result they help with development, costs and give lots of promises to have the games exclusively appear for their platform. But as others said, usually there is not really a reason for the limitation and in some case a small manipulation of textfiles is sufficient to trick the games into believing they are running on Tegra platforms and thus use their full capacity.
To some extend you can compare it with the exclusive games on Xbox360 and PS3. There is obviously no technical reason why it could not be ported to the other platform, but often the studios still do not. Some stuff may look better on Xbox, some on PS3. However that usually boils down to how well the developers know the platform and especially the completelty different CPU architectures (Cell vs PowerPC)
d4fseeker said:
Regardless of what movies suggest, a processor does not have commands for "make that game look awesome" or "add lightning here". All they are capable of doing is trigonometric manipulation with dots, lines, triangles and squares.
Here's a short and somewhat technical description on how e.g. illumination is calculated. As you can see, nothing but lots of math - not a prepared and ready-for-use command
http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems2/gpugems2_chapter38.html
The difference between Exynos and Tegra is that Nvidia actually cares a lot about getting developers on their platform. (Well it is their last straw in mobile computing and they are pretty much f*** if that fails since they only sell parts, not entire platforms)
As a result they help with development, costs and give lots of promises to have the games exclusively appear for their platform. But as others said, usually there is not really a reason for the limitation and in some case a small manipulation of textfiles is sufficient to trick the games into believing they are running on Tegra platforms and thus use their full capacity.
To some extend you can compare it with the exclusive games on Xbox360 and PS3. There is obviously no technical reason why it could not be ported to the other platform, but often the studios still do not. Some stuff may look better on Xbox, some on PS3. However that usually boils down to how well the developers know the platform and especially the completelty different CPU architectures (Cell vs PowerPC)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont know what your talking about and...no offense Since the graphic processor is all about calculating polygon etc can you for example on Pc run a Dx11 Game in Dx10 or Dx9 GPU Cards??? so that your Dx10 graphic CARD will render the game with same details , tessellation as a Dx11 graphic card?? WELL NO and im repeating again there is some Hardware tweak on Tegra device so the software (Games) could look better yeah its all about polygon yes but how or the way you get those polygon matters and for that gpu architecture matters also
You might tweak some tegra games by modifying some file in order to run it on other devices but I believe you wont have the same experience as on tegra device at least for the must uptimized tegra game
Get your fact straight
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Last summer, I decided to buy a Nexus 7 for using it mainly as an ebook reader. It's perfect for that with its very sharp 1280x800 screen. It was my first Android device and I love this little tablet.
I'm a fan of retro gaming and I installed emulators on every device I have: Pocket PC, Xbox, PSP Go, iPhone, iPad3, PS3. So I discovered that the Android platform was one of the most active community for emulation fans like me and I bought many of them, and all those made by Robert Broglia (.EMU series). They were running great on the N7 but I found that 16GB was too small, as was the screen.
I waited and waited until the 32 GB Nexus 10 became available here in Canada and bought it soon after (10 days ago). With its A15 cores, I was expecting the N10 to be a great device for emulation but I am now a little disapointed. When buying the N10, I expected everything to run faster than on the N7 by a noticeable margin.
Many emulators run slower on the N10 than on the N7. MAME4Ddroid and MAME4Droid reloaded are no longer completely smooth with more demanding ROMs, Omega 500, Colleen, UAE4droid and SToid are slower and some others needed much more tweaking than on the N7. I'm a little extreme on accuracy of emulation and I like everything to be as close to the real thing as possible. A solid 60 fps for me is a must (or 50 fps for PAL machines).
On the other side, there are other emus that ran very well: the .EMU series and RetroArch for example. These emulators are much more polished than the average quick port and they run without a flaw. They're great on the 10-inch screen and I enjoy them very much. The CPU intensive emulators (Mupen64Plus AE and FPSE) gained some speed but less that I anticipated.
So is this because of the monster Nexus 10's 2560x1600 resolution? Or is it because of limited memory bandwith? Maybe some emulators are not tweaked for the N10 yet. I wish some emulators had the option to set a lower resolution for rendering and then upscale the output. I think that many Android apps just try to push the frames to the native resolution without checking first if there is a faster way.
The N7 has a lower clocked 4 core CPU but has only 1/4 the resolution. I think that it's a more balanced device that the N10 which may have a faster dual core CPU but too much pixels to push. It's much like the iPad3 who was twice as fast as the iPad2 but had a 4x increase in resolution.
I am now considering going for a custom ROM on the N10 but I wonder if I will see an increase in emulation speed. Maybe those of you who did the jump can tell me. I'm thinking about AOKP maybe.
Any suggestion on that would be appreciated, thanks!
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
EniGmA1987 said:
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
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Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Having to render to that size of screen [2560x1600] will slow the game down. It’s called being ‘fill rate bound’. Even for a good processor it's a lot of work as the game uses quite a lot of overdraw.
The solution is to draw everything to a smaller screen (say half at 1280x800) and then stretch the final image to fill the screen.
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A sad true my nexus 10 get dam hot and i have to play games at 1.4 or 1.2 that sux
Sent from my XT925 using xda app-developers app
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
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But fillrate isnt memory bandwidth. We need both more MHz and more raster operations to get higher fill rate of pixels per second. We can overclock the GPU to get the MHz, and that will help, but we have to find a way to solve the higher heat output too from that. More ROP's are impossible as it is a hardware design for how many we have. If we ever get to overclock up to around 750 MHz then we should see a 30-40% improvement in fill rate. At that point we may have memory bandwidth problems, but we wont know for sure until we get there. But the 12.8GB/s of bandwidth that we currently have is enough to support 2560x1600 resolution at our current GPU power. Our Nexus 10 also has the highest fillrate of any Android phone or tablet to date, about 1.4 Mtexel/s. And if we have memory bandwidth limitations, then we would see no improvement at all from the current overclock we do have up to 612-620MHz because the speed wouldnt be where the bottleneck is. Yet we can clearly see in benchmarks and real gaming that we get FPS increases with higher MHz, thus our current problem is the fillrate and not the memory bandwidth.
Also, the solution is not to render the game at half the resolution as that is a band-aid on the real problem. If the developer of a game would code the game properly we wouldnt have this problem, or if they dont feel like doing that then they should at least stop trying to put more into the game than their un-optimized, lazy project is capable of running nicely.
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
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Click to collapse
With that logic you could buy any video card for a PC and it would run any game at the resolution the video card supports. That isn't the case because rendering involves more than just memory fill rate. There are textures, polygons, multiple rendering passes, filtering, it goes on and on. As EniGmA1987 mentioned nothing has been optimized to take advantage of this hardware yet, developers were literally crossing their fingers hoping their games would run 'as is'. thankfully the A15 cpu cores in the exynos will be used in the tegra 4 as well so we can look forward to the CPU optimizations soon which will definitely help.
Emulators are more cpu intensive than anything else, give it a little time and you won't have any problems with your old school games. Run the new 3DMark bench to see what this tablet can do, it runs native resolution and its not even fully optimized for this architecture yet.
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
Lodovik said:
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth
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Just curious but what is that calculation supposed to be? total bandwidth needed? Cause I don't see your bit depth in there, unless the 4 is supposed to be that? If that is true than you are calculating on 4-bit color depth?
And then the result would just be bandwidth required for pixel data to memory wouldnt it? It wouldnt include texture data in and out of memory and other special functions like post processing.
2560*1600 = number of pixels on the screen
4 = bytes / pixels for 32-bits depth
60 = frames / second
/1024/1024 = divide twice to get the result in MB
Actually, I made a typo the result is 937,5 MB/s or 0.92 GB/s. This is just a rough estimate to get an idea of what is needed at this resolution just to push the all pixels on the screen in flat 2D at 60 fps, assuming that emulators don't use accelerated functions.
My point was that with 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwith, we should have more than enough even if this estimate isn't very accurate.
Thanks for the explanation
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
Thanks for the info. There's so many configuration options available for the Nexus 10. I really enjoy having all those possibilities.
EniGmA1987 said:
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
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=Lodovik;40030*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
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You are taking what I said out of context. I was responding to someone else, thus the "quote" above my post.
Since you posted I loaded up some Super Nintendo, N64, and PlayStation games on my n10 without any issues. It may just be your setup. There are a lot of tweaks out there that could easily increase performance. One great and very simple one is enabling 2D GPU rendering which is in developer options. Just do some searching. GPU Overclocking won't help much, as you said above your games are only 2D. I am sure you can get them running just fine.