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Sooo.. I'm not a fan of the crazy supermod kernels that add "tweaks" that improve only synthetic scores but kill your battery and are actually worse performing in real-world apps and cause other issues.
But damn, HTC has a HORRIBLE Bluetooth bitrate on A2DP. It's not the phone because one time I had a random ROM that had it sounding perfect, but whatever crap HTC has in there stock is awful.
Can anyone recommend one that doesn't do all the crazy stuff like SD/RAM "tweaks" but maybe only has things like dimmed capacatative buttons and the updated BT A2DP bitrate?
Or if I have to do this myself, what's a good way to get started?
Come on, no one?
Answer: Do it your self. Brah
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
southern87 said:
Answer: Do it your self. Brah
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
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He wasn't asking someone to developed a kernel, he was simply asking if one exists. Way to be a ****. I seriously have a hard time dealing with all the bull**** in the 3D forums.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA App
Saneless One said:
Can anyone recommend one that doesn't do all the crazy stuff like SD/RAM "tweaks" but maybe only has things like dimmed capacatative buttons and the updated BT A2DP bitrate?
Or if I have to do this myself, what's a good way to get started?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I compiled a stock kernel with only dim leds and notification light blinking changed. If you tell me exactly what to change for the BT A2DP bitrate (or point to a kernel that has that change as a commit on github, etc), I'll do it for you.
wrapkgb said:
He wasn't asking someone to developed a kernel, he was simply asking if one exists. Way to be a ****. I seriously have a hard time dealing with all the bull**** in the 3D forums.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the last sentence. Kthxbye lol
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
ANYWAY.
Thanks mwalt. I'm actually using your kernel now with Clean/Senseless ROMs. I prefer no crazy crap in there, so I appreciate changing a few things that make sense and aren't experimental theoretical improvements.
My request is real though
Here's a big long thread about it, actually, to show I'm not crazy
http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-708685.html
Now.. to answer your question on where or what to change, after reading all that, I'm not sure I have an answer for you.
I know that the ROM in this thread works just fine:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1316039
But of course, being CM7 based, it's still missing many things I need. Oddly though, unlike CM7 alpha, the BT audio worked just fine.
Saneless One said:
I know that the ROM in this thread works just fine:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1316039
But of course, being CM7 based, it's still missing many things I need. Oddly though, unlike CM7 alpha, the BT audio worked just fine.
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Click to collapse
Do you happen to know what kernel empiire's rom is running? He doesn't say or give a source that I saw by quickly looking. I don't know enough to dig through the code myself and find it.
all my kernels have new / faster BT drivers...
GSM AOSP - pending
GSM SENSE - DONE
CDMA SENSE - DONE
CDMA AOSP = done
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1318005
chad.goodman knows what he is doing!
I use the stockAnthraX kernel and it has just the right amount of tweaks that I need. Actually, I don't even think of them as tweaks...just making the phone do what it was designed to do.
Flash it...you won't regret it!
Just noticed mwalt had posted in here....his kernels were going to be my other suggestion! Both of them do quality work.
mwalt: The kernel for empires says it's from toastcfh, evo 3d #25 dirty. Something like that. I'm going from memory since I only flashed it to see if Bluetooth sounded good. And it sure did sound good. I have a few songs that are always an issue with HTCs settings and they were perfect.
I'll try out Chad's kernel to see if it's a kernel or other settings issue. If it's kernel, I'll have to research, hopefully with some help, where the setting truly is.
I've yet to check out how chad's performs in the car, but I have zero interest in overclocking anything. FSB, CPU, GPU, anything. This phone doesn't get the best battery life in general, and I have zero issues with 1.2ghz, so I see no reason to go higher. I use apps instead of just benchmarking, and those all work just great. In fact, some ROMS even set things back with tweaks that look good on paper (benchmarks) but actually break things like SD card read/write latency.
I personally recommend chad.goodman's kernals. I have flashed different kernals and different roms, testing each rom with each kernal. His always gave a better benchmark score, while remaining the most stable. I know that's not what your looking for however. Since that "phase" that I was going through flashing 4-6 roms a day, I have since stuck with flashing a new rom every few days to try them out. But I always, ONLY, flash his stock kernal, because it seems to me to make the phone run exactly as it should. I don't overclock or tweak it in any way, or use any apps to do so.
So basically I would say flash his stock kernal, don't worry about overclocking it or doing anything to change it, and try it out for a few days. I think you'll be pretty happy with the outcome.
Edit: I play games for 1-3 hours a day on my phone, text constantly and use the phone for everything it has, and I get 18-26 hours per charge. The rom I had stuck with mostly(Or always go back to) is CleanROM DE with his kernal, which now includes it.
I'd prefer not to OC, but the kernel has it set for 1.5 by default.
CleanROM DE isn't bad, but some of the tweaks cause real-world issues despite possible score gains. For instance, the SD Card speed fix actually slows down read/write rates in any real-world usages and even makes songs skip. The latency is horrible with that script in particular.
I have played multiple albums without running into any problems myself. All of my music is 320 CBR, and I use the stock music player. As far as score gains, I haven't ran a benchmark on this rom. I've gotten to where I just want a good stable rom, regardless of the benchmark scores, and of course one that works for me. I'm not saying it's your phone or SD Card, but honestly I haven't ran into any issues with the read or writing of my card. I'm also using the SD Card that came with the phone which I believe is class 4. I'm getting out of where I "know what I'm talking about" but it could also be the process you follow when flashing. I feel like I go through alot of un-needed steps while flashing roms/kernals. I flash a combination of different Wiping tools that format and optimize(Synergy Wipe for example) the partitions in EXT4. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it, but I can honestly say I haven't ran into any latency issues and especially no song skipping, even with the phone under heavy load(Music+Games/3DGames+Sometimes an open web tab or two and texting).
It could all just come down to each phone is different, even though they have the same hardware. Just like with PCs.
As far as OCing, I may not be correct(I'm probably not), but from what I read on chad.goodmans post along with others, the processor is approved/supported to run up to 1.512 by QUALCOMM, although it seems HTC says 1.188.
I'm not an expert on this at all, and if this isn't correct let me know. I'm just talking from experience and from my understandings of reading around on the forums.
Trust me, I try multiple things multiple times so I can single out the source of issues
Without SD Card tweak init.d scripts everything is fine. Introduce them into the mix, songs, album art, and the phone in general runs slow as it waits to build up the buffer before reading/writing. Now, benchmarks don't show this because during that buffer time there's no reading/writing so it's not measuring it. Once it actually writes it's slightly faster, but you can clearly see that the test is stalling out and it takes a LOT longer to complete.
As for chad's OC, I realize he's just doing what the chip is rated at, I'm not worried that he's got things set to some bad level, I just also realize that the chip is underclocked probably to save battery, and I'm fine with that speed so I'll take the power savings.
And finally.. the Anthrax kernel has the same A2DP issues as stock, so the bitpool setting is either not changed in it or the setting is elsewhere. I need to flash the other kernel I had from empire's rom to see if that alone can fix it.
Post your results once you finish testing it out, I'd like to know what they are haha!
Like I said I'm not into pushing my phone anymore, just looking for the best overall experience as possible with complete stability. However once in a great while I decide to flash some stuff and tweak it around to see how far my phone will go before freaking out ha.
Ok.. after another round of testing.
Looks like it's NOT a kernel thing after all. If I use Chad's anthrax kernel in a Sense ROM it doesn't change the quality of the BT A2DP streaming. But in an AOSP ROM, where the audio sounds good, using Chad's AOSP kernel still sounds good.
So it looks like there's some file/setting somewhere else that determines the bitrate or the BT drivers. Guess this isn't going to be as easy as I hoped.
Well at least you got that figured out haha. I'm still very interested in your findings so keep us updated! ^.^
I've always found that AOSP run better anyways, but I like Sense too much to get rid of it haha! However I'm looking forward to the bugs in the XPLOD ROM to be worked out, I flashed that one when it was released a few days ago and it seems pretty sick.
I would love to have an AOSP rom, but at this point the phone is missing functionality. I'll deal with Sense, so long as I can play music over BT and not cringe.
BT is important for the car because I can use steering controls
I have had an Incredible since about October of 2010 and it finally bit the dust and I have moved to the Fascinate because of the price and awesome reviews the phone has received.
I have a few questions about the Fascinate.
What known bugs does this phone have? Are the bugs specific to Froyo, Gingerbread or both?
Which stock ROM is better for this device, Froyo or Gingerbread? (I prefer Froyo for the Incredible)
Is there a mostly stock ROM for this phone that is completely stable, zero bugs and zippy?
What is the best and easiest root method?
Is there anything I need to do before I root?
Thanks for any help.
Take a look at my guide in the general section. Section 1 has i.structions for flashing imo one of the best froyo roms...its just a enhanced version of stock froyo that yields awsome battery life. I also have a section (5) on rooting, but its not needed if your flashing a custom rom. Pretty much all of the latest roms for the fascinate are pre rooted.
Thanks a lot! I will check this out over the weekend.
ejdavis72 said:
I have had an Incredible since about October of 2010 and it finally bit the dust and I have moved to the Fascinate because of the price and awesome reviews the phone has received.
I have a few questions about the Fascinate.
What known bugs does this phone have? Are the bugs specific to Froyo, Gingerbread or both?
Which stock ROM is better for this device, Froyo or Gingerbread? (I prefer Froyo for the Incredible)
Is there a mostly stock ROM for this phone that is completely stable, zero bugs and zippy?
What is the best and easiest root method?
Is there anything I need to do before I root?
Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the fascinate forums ej, I too came from an incredible not too long ago so here's a couple things that should help you out.
First, you do not need to root to flash a rom/recovery/whatever. Samsung apparently leaves the security pretty wide open so you're free to flash an alternate recovery in odin then flash the rom of your choice from there. This was a weird concept for me coming from the incredible, and I think a lot of people just assume that you need to root before flashing roms (as that's how it is with moto, HTC, etc) but that's not the case.
I don't know if you prefer stock or AOSP roms, on the stock front, I think there's Superclean, Geewhiz, and TSM resurrection. These should be quite stable stock-ish roms that don't have the bugs that AOSP roms do. AOSP roms (ICS/MIUI/CM7/TSM PoolParty) on the fascinate use a different and faster filesystem (MTD). I can't really comment on any roms but MIUI/CM7/ICS as that's all I've ever used personally. The AOSP bugs that I've run into (currently on CM7) are data issues - data will occasionally drop out requiring airplane mode toggle, or will get stuck on 1x after sending/receiving SMS. Also there's a weird thing where the earpiece volume during calls will default to a high volume (just requires a quick volume adjustment or tasker script). I don't always notice this happening though.
I'll probably think of more later on, those are just the ones that come to mind at the moment. Hope this helps.
k_nivesout said:
Welcome to the fascinate forums ej, I too came from an incredible not too long ago so here's a couple things that should help you out.
First, you do not need to root to flash a rom/recovery/whatever. Samsung apparently leaves the security pretty wide open so you're free to flash an alternate recovery in odin then flash the rom of your choice from there. This was a weird concept for me coming from the incredible, and I think a lot of people just assume that you need to root before flashing roms (as that's how it is with moto, HTC, etc) but that's not the case.
I don't know if you prefer stock or AOSP roms, on the stock front, I think there's Superclean, Geewhiz, and TSM resurrection. These should be quite stable stock-ish roms that don't have the bugs that AOSP roms do. AOSP roms (ICS/MIUI/CM7/TSM PoolParty) on the fascinate use a different and faster filesystem (MTD). I can't really comment on any roms but MIUI/CM7/ICS as that's all I've ever used personally. The AOSP bugs that I've run into (currently on CM7) are data issues - data will occasionally drop out requiring airplane mode toggle, or will get stuck on 1x after sending/receiving SMS. Also there's a weird thing where the earpiece volume during calls will default to a high volume (just requires a quick volume adjustment or tasker script). I don't always notice this happening though.
I'll probably think of more later on, those are just the ones that come to mind at the moment. Hope this helps.
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I saw you on these forums earlier and recognized you right away, I remember you from the Incredible forums for sure.
Thanks for the help, you answered many of my questions! A few more though...
Is the volume bug with all ROM's or just with certain ones?
How would you rate this phone against the Incredible, and can I use Mesmerize ROM's too? Would you recommend Froyo for this phone or Gingerbread?
ejdavis72 said:
I saw you on these forums earlier and recognized you right away, I remember you from the Incredible forums for sure.
Thanks for the help, you answered many of my questions! A few more though...
Is the volume bug with all ROM's or just with certain ones?
How would you rate this phone against the Incredible, and can I use Mesmerize ROM's too? Would you recommend Froyo for this phone or Gingerbread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The volume bug is something that I've read is an issue with all MTD roms (CM7/MIUI/ICS), but in my experience, I've only noticed it a couple times, and I've only been on MTD roms since I got this phone a month or two ago. What I'm trying to say is, it's a pretty minor concern for me, but I don't actually talk on the phone all that much.
IMO, this phone is a nice upgrade coming from the incredible. Not galaxy nexus-like nice upgrade, but still, considering I sold my incredible for what I paid for the fascinate, it was totally worth it. One of the big things you'll notice coming from the incredible is the screen. I had an AMOLED incredible, and the SAMOLED on the fascinate is *much* better. You get a little more screen real estate (3.7" vs 4") and the display itself is just much more vibrant and closer to the actual glass part of the touchscreen that you interact with. Also, with voodoo color, you can tweak the display exactly to your liking, which is something I've definitely enjoyed being able to do.
Also, if you use your phone as a media player, you will love the WM8994 DAC used in the Galaxy S line. It sounds absolutely amazing paired with the voodoo control (app that lets you tweak sound and display) - considerably better than any ipod I've tested it side-by-side against. The audio quality alone will make it hard for me to upgrade, considering the DACs used in the newer generation devices like the Nexus or Galaxy SII are actually inferior to the one used in the original Galaxy S phones.
There is one downgrade coming from the incredible though, and that's the RAM (384MB vs 512MB), but I haven't run into any situation yet where the RAM was insufficient to do what I wanted to do. Also, if you're in to tweaking kernel things, you can do MUCH more with the kernels on this device compared to the incredible.
I'm not sure about mesmerize roms, I don't think you could use them on the fascinate unless they were modified. Are there any mes-specific roms you've seen that aren't available on the fascinate? As far as froyo vs GB, I can't really comment on that either since I've only used GB/ICS. Now that I think of it, aside from stock roms, I haven't seen any froyo roms around. But that's probably because I got the phone right around when GB finally officially came out for it.
k_nivesout said:
The volume bug is something that I've read is an issue with all MTD roms (CM7/MIUI/ICS), but in my experience, I've only noticed it a couple times, and I've only been on MTD roms since I got this phone a month or two ago. What I'm trying to say is, it's a pretty minor concern for me, but I don't actually talk on the phone all that much.
IMO, this phone is a nice upgrade coming from the incredible. Not galaxy nexus-like nice upgrade, but still, considering I sold my incredible for what I paid for the fascinate, it was totally worth it. One of the big things you'll notice coming from the incredible is the screen. I had an AMOLED incredible, and the SAMOLED on the fascinate is *much* better. You get a little more screen real estate (3.7" vs 4") and the display itself is just much more vibrant and closer to the actual glass part of the touchscreen that you interact with. Also, with voodoo color, you can tweak the display exactly to your liking, which is something I've definitely enjoyed being able to do.
Also, if you use your phone as a media player, you will love the WM8994 DAC used in the Galaxy S line. It sounds absolutely amazing paired with the voodoo control (app that lets you tweak sound and display) - considerably better than any ipod I've tested it side-by-side against. The audio quality alone will make it hard for me to upgrade, considering the DACs used in the newer generation devices like the Nexus or Galaxy SII are actually inferior to the one used in the original Galaxy S phones.
There is one downgrade coming from the incredible though, and that's the RAM (384MB vs 512MB), but I haven't run into any situation yet where the RAM was insufficient to do what I wanted to do. Also, if you're in to tweaking kernel things, you can do MUCH more with the kernels on this device compared to the incredible.
I'm not sure about mesmerize roms, I don't think you could use them on the fascinate unless they were modified. Are there any mes-specific roms you've seen that aren't available on the fascinate? As far as froyo vs GB, I can't really comment on that either since I've only used GB/ICS. Now that I think of it, aside from stock roms, I haven't seen any froyo roms around. But that's probably because I got the phone right around when GB finally officially came out for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After spending some time with this phone I have some issues with it...
1. Lowest in-call volume is TOO HIGH!
2. Headset buttons don't work other than pause, play, answer, and end. (GAY!)
3. When I end a call and hit the power button to turn the screen off, it comes back on! (with Widget Locker) regular lock works fine to keep the screen off after a call. Hmm
4. Music playback doesn't seem to sound right. (sounds tinny)
5. Volume buttons turn the screen on! (What the hell?)
ejdavis72 said:
After spending some time with this phone I have some issues with it...
1. Lowest in-call volume is TOO HIGH!
2. Headset buttons don't work other than pause, play, answer, and end. (GAY!)
3. When I end a call and hit the power button to turn the screen off, it comes back on! (with Widget Locker) regular lock works fine to keep the screen off after a call. Hmm
4. Music playback doesn't seem to sound right. (sounds tinny)
5. Volume buttons turn the screen on! (What the hell?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
try flashing the glitch v13.1 kernel, should help with in call volume...thats if your currently on a mtd rom. If your running a TW rom, then use the kgb kernel and use terminal to adjust call volume settings.
ejdavis72 said:
After spending some time with this phone I have some issues with it...
1. Lowest in-call volume is TOO HIGH!
2. Headset buttons don't work other than pause, play, answer, and end. (GAY!)
3. When I end a call and hit the power button to turn the screen off, it comes back on! (with Widget Locker) regular lock works fine to keep the screen off after a call. Hmm
4. Music playback doesn't seem to sound right. (sounds tinny)
5. Volume buttons turn the screen on! (What the hell?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I'm on glitch kernel and it's fine for me. You can also customize all sorts of volumes but I've just left em at the default.
2. What other functions are besides play, pause, answer/end aren't working? Track skipping? I have a pair of headphones with inline controls and nothing works on MTD roms for me, so your already a bit ahead of the curve in comparison.
3. Sounds like something with widgetlocker, not necessarily the phone.
4. Adjust settings in Voodoo control if you need. Music sounds *amazing* with my setup. I personally delete DSPmanager and just use VC.
5. This is something that can be turned on or off with CM7/MIUI. You didn't say what rom or kernel you're using so it's kinda hard to help.
k_nivesout said:
1. I'm on glitch kernel and it's fine for me. You can also customize all sorts of volumes but I've just left em at the default.
2. What other functions are besides play, pause, answer/end aren't working? Track skipping? I have a pair of headphones with inline controls and nothing works on MTD roms for me, so your already a bit ahead of the curve in comparison.
3. Sounds like something with widgetlocker, not necessarily the phone.
4. Adjust settings in Voodoo control if you need. Music sounds *amazing* with my setup. I personally delete DSPmanager and just use VC.
5. This is something that can be turned on or off with CM7/MIUI. You didn't say what rom or kernel you're using so it's kinda hard to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, I totally forgot to tell you what ROM I'm using.
I'm on the Geewiz 2.3 Gingerbread ROM and kernel because I always like some goodies but I try to stay as close to stock as possible for stability reasons. I know the volume issue is with Widgetlocker but it didn't do that on the Dinc so, I have to have something to blame right? Ha...
Do the US Cellular Mesmerize phones have the same issues as our phones? Ya know like the headset control, in-call volume too high and all that?
Oh I gotcha, does the kernel you're using support voodoo sound? If not, I'd try out another one that does and then check out your music. And yes, I think the issues that are common to the phone affect the fascinate/mesmerize/showcase since they're essentially the same phone. I don't know much about touchwiz roms, but I'd suggest looking into a kernel with more features, you might be able to tweak those things that you're having an issue with.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
I have a guide to kernels for eh03 here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459905 all 3 tw kernels have voodoo sound as of latest updates iirc
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I tried the KGB kernel and it has an option to boost in-call volume but nothing to lower it. The tinny sound issue was my inline remote I use for the headphones, it had a faulty volume slider that needed some cleaning. Thanks for all your help!
k_nivesout said:
Oh I gotcha, does the kernel you're using support voodoo sound? If not, I'd try out another one that does and then check out your music. And yes, I think the issues that are common to the phone affect the fascinate/mesmerize/showcase since they're essentially the same phone. I don't know much about touchwiz roms, but I'd suggest looking into a kernel with more features, you might be able to tweak those things that you're having an issue with.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh okay, I thought all theses issues were probably software issues with Verizon's ROM/kernel. Yes, Geewiz kernel supports voodoo.
Droid Razr Maxx
Well I guess this is my goodbye... I scored an awesome deal on a Motorola Droid Razr Maxx off of Craigslist and it's time for me to move on.. Thanks for all your help and I hope to see you all sometime in other forums.
Hey everybody.
Just wanted to point out a fact about xLoud and the terrible overuse on recent ROMs/Kernels from people that have no sense of audio quality and clarity, or people that don't actualy know what a DSP is, what it can do, what it can't do.
So what is xLoud? What does it promise to do and what does it really do?
So xLoud apparently is a "technology" that can offer you "magically" more audio volume to your smartphone without changing anything to your phone as a hardware.
You know, when you have studied music technology and you know how physics and audio hardware works, reading to a phrase like this one, you know that something very fishy is going on. Reading the technology's description word by word you know that such thing is impossible to happen in real life.
So what xLoud really does to your smartphone's audio? Does it really work or it's just another thing that gives empty promises?
Breaking down xLoud:
So what xLoud really does is think how our ear and brain percieves audio and how they can take advantage of it to (obviously) fake a higher volume sound. So their idea is to take advantage of the fact that our ear has sensitivity to mid range frequencies and base everything around that. OK that's good but how can you take advantage of such thing to make a hardware perform a higher volume sound than what it does? Easy, it's called linear audio dynamic range compression. So what they do is they steal dynamics from the frequency ranges our ear is less sensitive to them and then assign the extra dynamic range to your effect. So they take the extra space and they over compress (or better over limmit) the audio to a point what you hear is simply a panic of noises since there is no dynamic range between the most loud part of a sound/track (like a kick) to the least busy part of the sound/track (a whisper) and make everything sound super-loud, avoiding the fact that our ear has also the sensitivity of dynamic range to percieve and understand audio hence they render the result amataurish, ugly, clipping and completely unrecognisable. Anyone that knows how Audition/Cool edit works can replicate the same effect very simply by opening a track of their desire then go to Effects->Amplitude and Compression->Tube-Modeled Compressor and apply these settings->
thresh: -30.db
gain:18db
ratio:12.0:1
attack: 1.0ms
release: 20ms
Then press OK and listen to the result. Sounds familiar? Doesn't it kill the track? Does it sound louder? No? So then why do you keep using it?
Also on top of that, xLoud has some bad rough edges. Because of the fact that the dynamic compressor is always on, it affects the volume levels behavior of your phone. So turning lower the level seems a bit unresponsive or the audio is not as turned down as you'd expect it to be. Also go near the speaker and start to turn lower the volume. You can hear the hiss going louder and louder as you go nearer to the silent mode. That's because the noise ratio gets raised everytime the compressor tries to higher the volume. But the worst bug of xLoud is that technicaly your phone can never-ever-ever and under no cirscumstances enter a pure silent mode. Nomatter what, your phone will always perform sounds, even if that means a very low level hiss/static sound, but there are even occasions that the compressor will take so high the peak signal that it will leak over the throttling effect of silent mode and you will be able to hear some sounds if you are near your phone's speaker.
So my point was alot of people know here that Beats is more or less a placebo like Bravia Engine is but none of these two seem to harm the quality factors they touch but Xloud on the contrary is the worst thing that can happen to your ROM/Kernel and I felt like it was about time you should know about it. Not only it is NOT loud, not only it is NOT nice, not only it's super inaccurate, but it can be proven dangerous to the hardware of your phone and nobody of the ROM developers does the mearest effort to warn their users about it because themselfs have no idea what this tool really does. I hope my post gives help to people and I also hope that there is a way I can completely get rid of xLoud and anything related to it on roms that are on XDA since just removing the apks and the lines on build.prop are proven to not be enough to make me get rid of that terrible nightmare called xLoud and seems the problem goes deep on the kernels that use it.
Many thanx for reading
Very thorough and well explained. I always thought something was fishy but never tried xloud. I thought they were changing voltage or something that would push more power to the output to increase volume and was afraid of hardware damage. Plus, I'm well aware of audio clipping when you push the levels too high.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using xda app-developers app
I want developers to offer a way to really get rid of it. Being forced to use it is just too much, it's so much to a point whatever a ROM/kernel will offer to the actual phone or even do super miracles with a super-weak and outdated phone, xLoud is enough to ruin completely the ROM making it trash. I mean ok, you are the developer and you do whatever you want with your ROM/Kernel but you don't even do the job telling people what this thing does or even give the option to disable it completely and then you expect people to respect you or somethin'? I mean seriously? There's a terrible analogy here. My point is, I could make a tiny application that converts your ringtone to a soundfile that will sound the same way it sounds when you integrate to your system xLoud. Why am I forced to use something only a deaf would use? That's a bit rude and offensive to the side of people that are going to use ROMs out of this site. Oh and please, don't start a personal-opinion and personal-taste game here, I provided enough info why it's not a matter of any of those.
Interesting, are you mostly pointing out that xLoud degrades quality?
Personally, I love xLoud, but maybe because I have different wants /needs from the sound on my phone than you. I do not have great hearing but I am not deaf either, but I find the sound coming from the Evo 3D's speaker inadequate. I often can't hear it. Ring tone and alarm /reminder volume is too low and I found myself not watching the YouTube video because I had the speaker to my ear. With xLoud, I actually turn the volume down for some uses. That said, I almost never use an external sound source be it headphones or a plug in boosted speaker. I am also not big on music. I do enjoy music, but for me it is primarily background noise and not a priority. In my car I sometimes listen to music, but mostly I listen to sports talk radio.
I guess what I am getting at/asking is, is your disdain for xLoud primarily related to audio quality? For me, quality isn't important, hearing my phone ring from across the room, for example, is. XLoud for me wouldn't be necessary with a phone with a decent speaker, but is all I know that makes this phones speaker doable. Do you know of any alternatives for my needs? I get what you are saying to an extent, but don't fully understand. You say xLoud doesn't make the sound output any louder, but it sure sounds louder to me. If it's a trick to make the ear think it is louder, Idk, it sure works for me.
Again, I am not trying to argue, nor debate the accuracy of what you wrote. I am certain that you are correct, I mostly wonder your thoughts of xLoud use for my wants and or alternatives.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
There's an extended discussion about audio quality on a smartphone in this thread and xloud isn't even mentioned. It's more about the digital to audio converter used and how to tweak that for the cleanest sound, which is not necessarily the most realistic. Audio is recorded with microphones but heard with our ears so until someone figures out a way to record and playback using an individual's nervous system it will never be totally realistic and there will always be some distortion versus a live performance.
Since one's preference for equalization depends heavily on age, due to hearing loss, and musical preference, such as classical versus rock, there is no right or wrong for shaping the audio coming from our phones. All recorded music is distorted in some way and it comes down to a personal preference on how much and what kind of tailoring each person prefers. Although most people don't care for the distortion caused by clipping it seems that based on the sound levels coming from some vehicles on the road today a few prefer volume over anything else.
I understand that you are asking for developers to not modify the audio equalization in their base ROM but HTC already does that with beats for Sense based ROM's in their current models. Even an AOSP based ROM without custom tweaks is going to depend on the audio profiles that the developers chose. You could use the digital audio output and an external DAC to avoid that customization but most users can't be bothered with that. There are AOSP based ROM's that don't include any equalization beyond what the developers included and your best bet may be to try those if you really want minimal equalization.
ramjet73
Most of the answers were pretty expected. People, dynamic range compression = leap gap degradation in quality. All record music is mastered by professionals and is done with expensive hardware/software and it is done with reference speakers, one of them is speakers being used in mobile phones, so you don't need to rape again the quality of the audio. The result of nearly zeroing dynamic range of audio is not higher volume, it's a noisier/busier audio track, that's all. Ther are other workarounds that could be done but xLoud is the worst thing that can happen to a mobile phone. Personaly, I never had a problem with the speaker of my phone at all. My point is xLoud alone does not do what you think it does because of the way our perception of hearing works, the result of you being able to hear your phone on a loud area is because of something else, not xLoud. Our ear is less possible to "understand" a change in the background when something has no dynamics (the case of xLoud) hence the effect of masking (check wikipedia) so if you make a constant noise, your brain will "cancel" the audio out. Also none of the HTC phones use Beats Audio for anything non-headphone related and even then you can turn it off. I felt a leap gap degradation in audio quality when I upgraded from GB stock to custom ICS ROMs because I recognize the thing that is being done when I hear the audio from the speakers and I can't help but remember my teachers saying " you hear that, NEVER do it". Also since we are talking about HTC EVO 3D I am forced to use a Sense 3/3.6 ROM if I want to keep 3D functionality so my choices are limmited. Developers should offer the option to completely disable xLoud (like Sony does anyway), I am OK with HTC's stock audio and I'm sure it's not just me. Forcing people to use it is equal to removing bloatware from a branded ROM to put back your own bloatware. There are alot of people who don't like Beats and they don't use it. Why shouldn't we have the same option for xLoud?
No one is forcing you to use it. Some people like xloud, i dont......so I disable it......All you have to do to turn off xloud is either freeze or uninstall the AudioEffectsService.apk through titanium backup. Doing so completely disables xloud including any background services related. End of story.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
troyboytn said:
No one is forcing you to use it. Some people like xloud, i dont......so I disable it......All you have to do to turn off xloud is either freeze or uninstall the AudioEffectsService.apk through titanium backup. Doing so completely disables xloud including any background services related. End of story.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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No, seriously I wouldn't complain if what you said did the work. Infact I know that method and I did it and then I found out that it doesn't even do half the job. It looks like recently the function or something is built deep inside the kernel and since there is no menu to disable it or something, it will just stay forever active and the phone will just be unaware. It's not like how you would disable it on a Sony phone that comes prebuild with the function and killing the apk and the lines on the build.prop would do the job there's more stuff involved here that I can't control without having access to the kernel source. Seems like the same issue happens once you put bravia engine (or something that the mod depends on it on your kernel) too but that doesn't really bother me but there might be people that will complain in the future.
And the story continues from right where it was left.
VIRGIN KLM said:
No, seriously I wouldn't complain if what you said did the work. Infact I know that method and I did it and then I found out that it doesn't even do half the job. It looks like recently the function or something is built deep inside the kernel and since there is no menu to disable it or something, it will just stay forever active and the phone will just be unaware.
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Huh?
There's no way that xloud is built into the kernel of an HTC phone. Maybe beats, but not xloud. As I said previously, there will always be some sort of distortion in the audio from a smartphone as it's not really intended to be an audiophile's device. You need to get a dedicated audio player if that's what you want.
ramjet73
VIRGIN KLM said:
And the story continues from right where it was left.
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You seem to think you already know how people are going reply and that we don't appreciate the message you are trying to convey. So why did you take the time to write this thread, then read and respond to our replies? If you already know, don't waste forum space.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
ramjet73 said:
Huh?
There's no way that xloud is built into the kernel of an HTC phone. Maybe beats, but not xloud. As I said previously, there will always be some sort of distortion in the audio from a smartphone as it's not really intended to be an audiophile's device. You need to get a dedicated audio player if that's what you want.
ramjet73
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It's not the case. You can clearly see in the changelogs of the kernels here that their is something like an xLoud dependecy or something added. In stock Gingerbread there's nothing wrong, nothing raising the bias of the audio, same goes with stock ICS. There's no clipping/tight dynamics on these versions because there is nothing HTC does to the audio DSP-effect-wise that will raise the dynamics above the headroom the hardware can output. HTC leaves the audio to pass-through untouched. It's just all the ICS based roms that use xLoud that have the issue of "forced" dynamics and eventualy clipping that shouldn't happen in normal conditions.
TKBoMo said:
You seem to think you already know how people are going reply and that we don't appreciate the message you are trying to convey. So why did you take the time to write this thread, then read and respond to our replies? If you already know, don't waste forum space.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
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Sorry if I sounded like this, I apologize if I offended anybody, but my actual intention was to convince that, before I would do a whole post explaining what the tool does and attempt to say that some people are trusting blindly everything "big" they hear, be sure that I won't be wasting time of people who will make the effort reading. Also the fact that I have a degree in Audio Engineering means that I know what I'm talking about when I say it's not a personal preference thing and that it's not what you think it is. Plus I made sure before people would suggest me to do things things on a user like me and my current post count, I'd go a step further and gather knowledge that would help me trying to deal with the issue myself. I've done the tedious work of reading one by one every page of the most active ROMs here and I've gone through reading all posts that give directions on how to disable xLoud and none helped until I realised that in order to implement in on a device that does not come prebuilt with it you need to do some modifications deeper than just the user-space. I mean, my point is, is it really so hard to have a switch that enables/disables the function?
With that being said, I want to make sure everybody know that I'm very greatful to developers that do the tedious work to work for the device and to people that do their best to help others in the forum, I honestly am, but it's one of those momments I am like, "what the hell was/were he/they thinking?".
VIRGIN KLM said:
It's not the case. You can clearly see in the changelogs of the kernels here that their is something like an xLoud dependecy or something added.
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Your arguments are getting irrational now if you are saying that kernels designed for the Evo 3D have specific modifications for xloud. If you are talking about any shaping of audio being done in the kernel, that's a much broader subject than what you started with in your OP and I think you will have a hard time getting much support in these forums for the argument that there should be no audio changes from the stock ROM in the kernel or anywhere else.
Good luck with your campaign because I think that idea will fall on deaf ears.
ramjet73
VIRGIN KLM said:
No, seriously I wouldn't complain if what you said did the work. Infact I know that method and I did it and then I found out that it doesn't even do half the job. It looks like recently the function or something is built deep inside the kernel and since there is no menu to disable it or something, it will just stay forever active and the phone will just be unaware. It's not like how you would disable it on a Sony phone that comes prebuild with the function and killing the apk and the lines on the build.prop would do the job there's more stuff involved here that I can't control without having access to the kernel source. Seems like the same issue happens once you put bravia engine (or something that the mod depends on it on your kernel) too but that doesn't really bother me but there might be people that will complain in the future.
And the story continues from right where it was left.
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if you install Sony walkman you can disable it these mods are just files take them out and switch them out for stock
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2
ramjet73 said:
Good luck with your campaign because I think that idea will fall on deaf ears.
ramjet73
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I see what you did there.
Everything on this site is FREE and at your own risk!
With that said, you have a choice to flash or install. Nobody is forcing you or I to flash anything!
VIRGIN KLM, I'm not defending xloud here BUT you said what you had to say and everyone who read it NOW knows!
Is that not enough?
I know you said something about getting XDA to remove it from the site BUT here's a little wisdom for you.....
Unless the app, mod, rom or the product in general is bricking devices or just malicious in general......I highly doubt that XDA will remove it JUST because it doesn't work.
There are plenty of things on XDA that don't work as they should BUT that's just the beauty of it all! If you find something that doesn't work, instead of acting like a whistleblower then why not fix it?
It sounds like you know what you're talking about and could be a very good asset to the xLoud guys....so WHY NOT help them out and fix the mod?
If you continue on with this rant you started, it will only throw mud on your argument and make you look like you're just jealous and you're working for a rival of xLoud.
Just my 2 cents.....
I'm finding this thread to be very informative. Thanks to Virgin KLM for starting it and laying down some knowledge.
I don't have any Audio Engineering degrees, but I do have 13 years experience running sound for live events and have 33 years experience with my ears . The 3D sounds pretty bad all around in my opinion. I've heard some pretty good sound systems and this ain't it. At least the mods bring the sound up to a decent level. But I still only run ROMs where the eq apps like DSP Manager actually work. I have to tweak the sound myself.
The thing about using cell phone reference speakers when mixing tracks is that I bet no one said, "Let's see how this sounds on the Evo 3D." Maybe an iPhone.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
ramjet73 said:
Your arguments are getting irrational now if you are saying that kernels designed for the Evo 3D have specific modifications for xloud. If you are talking about any shaping of audio being done in the kernel, that's a much broader subject than what you started with in your OP and I think you will have a hard time getting much support in these forums for the argument that there should be no audio changes from the stock ROM in the kernel or anywhere else.
Good luck with your campaign because I think that idea will fall on deaf ears.
ramjet73
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There is no campaign here, it's just my two cents to people that believe that they are improving audio when in reality they don't and they do the common mistakes you can see over and over on the internet and I'm just trying to help to iron out myths and missunderstandings of what those "improvements" do and what not, possibly not as good as I thought I would but apparently I do. It looks like the kernels pretty like double the effect or contribute to the whole DSP processing in some way or another but it's way too biased, which now seems like audio actually passes through 2 stages of dynamics compression, one from the kernel and one more from the phone's audio manager as a software side effectively killing any possibility to get rid of it simply rendering impossible to get rid of that supertight-compression effect.
Anyone that questions what I said above is free to go back to Gingebread stock with stock kernel and hear a ringtone on the ringtone settings at full volume and compare that to their xLoud featured ROM.
Flashalot said:
if you install Sony walkman you can disable it these mods are just files take them out and switch them out for stock
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It won't affect the system related audio which is basicaly what annoys me the most, but I was talking in general why forced xLoud is a bad idea.
Mazda said:
Everything on this site is FREE and at your own risk!
With that said, you have a choice to flash or install. Nobody is forcing you or I to flash anything!
VIRGIN KLM, I'm not defending xloud here BUT you said what you had to say and everyone who read it NOW knows!
Is that not enough?
I know you said something about getting XDA to remove it from the site BUT here's a little wisdom for you.....
Unless the app, mod, rom or the product in general is bricking devices or just malicious in general......I highly doubt that XDA will remove it JUST because it doesn't work.
There are plenty of things on XDA that don't work as they should BUT that's just the beauty of it all! If you find something that doesn't work, instead of acting like a whistleblower then why not fix it?
It sounds like you know what you're talking about and could be a very good asset to the xLoud guys....so WHY NOT help them out and fix the mod?
If you continue on with this rant you started, it will only throw mud on your argument and make you look like you're just jealous and you're working for a rival of xLoud.
Just my 2 cents.....
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Click to collapse
That's not my point at all. I simply said that it would be nice and kind if there was an EFFECTIVE way to leave unmodified the audio as HTC calibrates it with professional equipment and I do trust them in that aspect and they really don't need anything messed with that side of the phone. Just a simple Turn ON-OFF function, I mean is it such a big deal? Oh and I don't demand anything, it's a suggestion and I tried to elaborate why I give such suggestion.
coal686 said:
I'm finding this thread to be very informative. Thanks to Virgin KLM for starting it and laying down some knowledge.
I don't have any Audio Engineering degrees, but I do have 13 years experience running sound for live events and have 33 years experience with my ears . The 3D sounds pretty bad all around in my opinion. I've heard some pretty good sound systems and this ain't it. At least the mods bring the sound up to a decent level. But I still only run ROMs where the eq apps like DSP Manager actually work. I have to tweak the sound myself.
The thing about using cell phone reference speakers when mixing tracks is that I bet no one said, "Let's see how this sounds on the Evo 3D." Maybe an iPhone.
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Done a breakdown myself. At the mastering studio I've been working they have 3-4 random phones when they master an Album as reference speakers. Also, I bet it's not something you hear the first time in your life, HTC and Sony phones have pretty like the best quality AD-DA converters in the mobile phone industry, and iPhones use the same ones as iPods which is famous for being one of the cheapest and worst quality out there, but that's an audiophile thing and it's not really worth mentioning. The fact that when you over compress dynamics in an audio output is a bad idea does not take an audiophile to understand that, I provided a whole tutorial how to archieve the result and hear yourself what you're missing.
VIRGIN KLM said:
Anyone that questions what I said above is free to go back to Gingebread stock with stock kernel and hear a ringtone on the ringtone settings at full volume and compare that to their xLoud featured ROM.
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I have done that. Additionally, the ROM I currently use does not have xLoud until I add it with AC!D. All that I can say is, I could care less about superior audio quality. I do however, care about being able to hear my ring tone from across the room and over the tv. Without xLoud the volume of the sound is much lower than after I add it. After xLoud being added, I turn the volume down on some apps. With xLoud I can hear YouTube and watch the video at the same time. I don't mind a quality loss (to a degree) for increased sound. The speaker in the 3D is horrendous, I need xLoud to enjoy my phone.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
TKBoMo said:
I have done that. Additionally, the ROM I currently use does not have xLoud until I add it with AC!D. All that I can say is, I could care less about superior audio quality. I do however, care about being able to hear my ring tone from across the room and over the tv. Without xLoud the volume of the sound is much lower than after I add it. After xLoud being added, I turn the volume down on some apps. With xLoud I can hear YouTube and watch the video at the same time. I don't mind a quality loss (to a degree) for increased sound. The speaker in the 3D is horrendous, I need xLoud to enjoy my phone.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
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What's the ROM you're using?
VIRGIN KLM said:
What's the ROM you're using?
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P.A.C.Man 4.2.2 currently. But it has been true on every ROM I have used until being introduced to xLoud on Viper3D.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using Tapatalk 2
Hello Community,
I'm new here and really just got into flashing my device. In fact, if it wasn't for that annoying little bug I have with my HTC Evo 3D GSM I wouldn't even have considered it. Either way, now I'm S-OFF and running the Next Gen v1.5 ICS-Rom (buttered kernel) by gkillerx and reaping the beneifts of an S-OFF phone with great custom Rom and Kernel.
However, my problem with Skype still persitsts (as expected), because it seems to be an HTC ICS bug (as seen across other forums and even a dedicated post here on the forum, but left unattended). It consists of a quite annoying, random crackling during calls (no matter which output) Now I'm wondering, is there any workaround for this bug (it also affects GTA 3 and Max Payne + some other games I assume) or will I have to live with that unless switching to a CM10 Rom?
I figured I could give Cyanogenmod a try, but under known bugs it says "Voice-over-IP not working (buggy)"... :cyclops: That would sort of destry the point.
I really don't care about 3D, but the rest of the phone should work and be as stable as possible and I would REALLY like it, if skype works properly as that is my main messenger and most people I know are on that.
Edit: Also as another side question. I did the S-Off with Jonuputbear, leaving me with HBoot 1.58 I guess; most Roms recommend 1.49 or sth; I need to downgrade to that? Does it affect my current Rom/Kernel setup
Repub omorybs
Update to myself. I tried a couple of diffrent kernels and ics roms (yoda, viper...) ; in all of them the skype bug was present. Im now on CM 10.1 by johnny and everything is working sweet (battery reading seems.to ne a bit off still).
Im really amazed by how fast my phone is now. Hope the battery readings fix themselves over time... Also had to reinstall the rom once after it unexpectedly hung up on boot after a reboor (i think i played around in kernel tuner too much.)
Edit: There is actually one small bug; the Kernel turns off one CPU and limits the other one to 484mhz (or 540mhz) once the screen turns off, right? Well, if u use skype like if it is an ordinary call that exact same thing happens, basicly "stealing" one core from skype. This results in some weird ass distorsion.
Is there any way to run Skype on a single core? I really don't want to turn off that MPDecision rule, as it helps saving Battery and I don't want to risk using Kernel Tuner again.
Trust me im with everyone 100% on loving CM and custom ROMS. OBVIOUSLY I want CM as much as the next guy and yes its fast (not anymore so than my current setup) and cool on this phone but I use my phone for 4 major reasons. Making phone calls & text, playing music (headphones, line out to my car stereo), watching youtube videos privately at work during free time(headphones), and video recording my kids. Now every ROM i've tried the phone calls echo terribly, forget about a quality music signal( LINE OUT & headphones sound like CRAP plus my car subwoofers have a constant hum and someFC music player & music player ALOT), and I have to give up my 1080p recording I got specifically for use with my 1080p tv for home video recording of my kids. So i'll be sticking with what I can use thats stable and supports these features which happens to be kumas rom thus far. So I don't understand how people disagree with me about this. I've ran CM and many other custom roms for the L9 and NONE of them support and are stable enough to accomplish the things i've stated above to my standards. So disagree all you wish but these are facts I can support/prove. Now YOU CAN disagree that these features aren't as important to you so your able to overlook them or they aren't as severe for you. Back on topic, did anyone else experience these same issues?
Sent from my LGMS769 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
lwg45714 said:
Trust me im with everyone 100% on loving CM and custom ROMS. OBVIOUSLY I want CM as much as the next guy and yes its fast (not anymore so than my current setup) and cool on this phone but I use my phone for 4 major reasons. Making phone calls & text, playing music (headphones, line out to my car stereo), watching youtube videos privately at work during free time(headphones), and video recording my kids. Now every ROM i've tried the phone calls echo terribly, forget about a quality music signal( LINE OUT & headphones sound like CRAP plus my car subwoofers have a constant hum and someFC music player & music player ALOT), and I have to give up my 1080p recording I got specifically for use with my 1080p tv for home video recording of my kids. So i'll be sticking with what I can use thats stable and supports these features which happens to be kumas rom thus far. So I don't understand how people disagree with me about this. I've ran CM and many other custom roms for the L9 and NONE of them support and are stable enough to accomplish the things i've stated above to my standards. So disagree all you wish but these are facts I can support/prove. Now YOU CAN disagree that these features aren't as important to you so your able to overlook them or they aren't as severe for you. Back on topic, did anyone else experience these same issues?
Sent from my LGMS769 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I have a P768, but i can help you with some things:
First of all: Did you made a full wipe when you installed CM? if you did not that could be the cause of the FCs. Also which recovery are you using? i recommend TWRP. Also use the correct gapps.
About sound: Calls quality is exactly the same to me on CM and stock. About the music you should try Walkman , its very good. That one is for CM10.2 only.
About camera: Try this one, its not perfect (some G2 features are obviously not working) but you can record in fullHD on CM with it, so use both this one and the standard one for regular shots.
I think stock rom its just awful, its filled with bloatware eating the ram and the aesthetics are very childlish, but its just my opinion. Im very happy with CM 10.2 and i was with CM10.1.3 before too, and i really tried stock based roms but they are too bloated to me. I hope you can get a better experience with custom roms, they are a thousand times better than stock in many ways in my opinion.
I agree about the call quality & audio bugs. Over all custom is good. It's not easy troubleshoot and hunting down problems. Lg has several developers working on one project. So of course CM won't be up to par on every aspect. However, custom Roms give you the latest versions and o/s. So it's up to the user to find what is best. I actually prefer stock as well, but I also want to help the one man (or woman) crew
So I try to do my part by reporting problems and troubleshooting.
I agree with @mato_d007 about using the proper gapps. In addition, I recommend wiping, flash rom, boot, then go back into recovery and install gapps. This procedure will make a huge difference IMO.
I just love Android in general, if you don't like something, just fix it. Screw the carrier's and big corporates with their money. Blame them for the audio problems & video problems with their Proprietary software. Open Source for life baby!!! Lol, I think I went a little over"bored" on that one.
Yes I know I'm contradicting myself by using stock, but I change it to my likings
Sent from my LGMS769 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Yes I did a full wipe before flashing. I also flashed the correct gapps. Im using CWM for recovery so maybe that has some effects. Im perfectly happy running what im on for now. Honestly with all the xpose mods and performance tweaks i'm using you would never know i'm running stock. I agree with you Kuma about open source for life. I don't believe you are contradicting yourself by using stock, I mean come on you clearly created the best stock platform available as far as performance/ looks and its modified like crazy which wouldnt be possible. I'm also behind the one man teams 100% as well, I just currently depend on my phone to much to run them and report the bugs and kinks. Another month or so and i'll have my N1 so once I have it my L9 will be test material. I even considered finding the right person on here that could use it for dev. purposes and donating it to them. We'll see though, i'm still trying to decide how I would go about selecting the right person. I'm so excited to see how CM is on a phone created for it, omgosh I can't wait!
UPDATE: So bummed! Just found out the n1 with CM is going to be a special edition that won't be released until later this year Cant decide whether to preorder for the 10th or wait for the CM edition. I mean im sure once the CM edition is released the firmware will be readily available to flash but I really wanted CM out of the box. However I heard OmniROM has a amazing build for it I could use while waiting. What do you guys think?
Sent from my LGMS769 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app