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So something very weird has happened..
I had my phone plugged in charging as I was going to sleep, everything was working fine. I wake up 4 hours later, and go to check my phone but nothing happens, and I notice that I have no charging light, nothing. I unplug the charger and plug it into my computer...nothing, I try a different cord...nothing. I tried holding the power button, but still nothing. I'm really confused as to what could have happened, because like I said it was just sitting there charging, I don't keep any open water anything near it either, so that couldn't have happened.
My phone is rooted, and is s-off, I was running MeanRom 4.3 when this happen, and it had been on that for 4 days without any issues.
Any Ideas what could have happened, or what I can?
so quick update, phone started rebooting like crazy all of a sudden. I heard it vibrate on my night stand, and noticed it was on the HTC boot screen, then it went black, and did it again. So I held power+volume down and got to the bootloader, but again it just randomly rebooted while it was in bootloader, as it was restarting it made it to the start up animation, however just went black again for about 3-4 mintues, then started rebooting again....I am very confused...
Well I had the same problem, but my phone Never got reboots or anything just dead.. Ended up with service on guarantee and they had to change the moderboard of my phone
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
man I hope that not the issue, but its rebooting like crazy now, and I actually rebooted enough to fully boot at one point, and the weird thing is, the Back buttong, home button and recent apps button were flashing, just like they do when you hold the power button in...
cvinton07 said:
man I hope that not the issue, but its rebooting like crazy now, and I actually rebooted enough to fully boot at one point, and the weird thing is, the Back buttong, home button and recent apps button were flashing, just like they do when you hold the power button in...
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I had the same problem with my first 2 EVOS, the just went dead but in my case they never came back up, Sprint replaced both under the 2 weeks warranty period... Bad batch maybe?
elculito said:
I had the same problem with my first 2 EVOS, the just went dead but in my case they never came back up, Sprint replaced both under the 2 weeks warranty period... Bad batch maybe?
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Well looks like a trip to Best buy at lunch today (I have the Bestbuy insurance because there is no fee for insurance claims...)
I'm just worried that while I'm there that it will try to start bootlooping, and they will see the text on the "Quietly Brilliant" screen, or it will go far enough to show MeanRom's boot animation, and they will stop the thing on the spot. After posting this morning it has had 2-3 sessions of wild boot loops, where it is continuous every couple of seconds rebooting. In the 3 minutes I've been typing this, it has gone through probably 10 cycles, each time making to the end of the Quietly Brilliant HTC screen where it shows the "This build is for HTC Development only..." yikes...
Best buy doesn't care if its rooted man. I brought in 2 rooted EVO's and exchanged them on the spot. Most of them don't even know what root is. If they did they don't know about the HTC dev screen.
Hey guys,
Last night I plugged in my LGOG right before I went to sleep. About seven hours later I woke up, woke it up to check the time, then fell back to sleep. When I woke up again a few hours later, my phone was completely dead. No lights go on when charging, nor does it go into the charging mode that happens when the phone is off but charging. The power button does nothing at all. Connecting it to a computer does nothing. I have tried two different wall chargers and a USB plug, and have tried different outlets. The phone is rooted and unlocked. I haven't put any new apps or anything on the phone recently, however I have had a slight overheating issue lately. I don't think that that's what caused the issue though, as when I woke up for the first time and woke it up, the phone was not noticeably hot, and seemed to work fine. Any ideas or suggestions?
Edit: As suddenly as it stopped working, it has started working again, about two hours later. The notification sound buzzed, my phone turned on, and usual on start things happened. However I'm still extremely worried about it. Now that it's on, I assume there's more I can do to figure out the issue- suggestions?
These phones are terribly buggy when charging/when they die, IMO. Worst Android device I've ever had in that respect.
Probably just a fluke, tbh.
Unfortunately it happened again- sent a message, put my phone away, when I tried to turn it on again nothing happened and it stopped working for five minutes.
Apologies for not mentioning this before, but I am using carbonrom, not stock. I've used it for several months with no issues, and have used the latest build for a week or two now without this issue.
miller150 said:
Unfortunately it happened again- sent a message, put my phone away, when I tried to turn it on again nothing happened and it stopped working for five minutes.
Apologies for not mentioning this before, but I am using carbonrom, not stock. I've used it for several months with no issues, and have used the latest build for a week or two now without this issue.
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Reboot into recovery and wipe cache+dalvik
Maybe the rom needs a little cleaning
Sent from my CM10.2 OGE973
Tried wiping cache and dalvik, but didn't seem to solve the issue. Then my phone started having an issue it's had once before- it turns on for a few seconds, then the screen goes grey for about a minute, then returns to being on. After returning to being on, it acts like it's just started up- ie, there's superuser grant notifications, cpu set notifications, and all sorts of other stuff I usually see on boot. It essentially rendered my phone unusable, so I restored an earlier backup. This seems to have resolved it for now, I may have to wait before updating carbon again.
miller150 said:
Tried wiping cache and dalvik, but didn't seem to solve the issue. Then my phone started having an issue it's had once before- it turns on for a few seconds, then the screen goes grey for about a minute, then returns to being on. After returning to being on, it acts like it's just started up- ie, there's superuser grant notifications, cpu set notifications, and all sorts of other stuff I usually see on boot. It essentially rendered my phone unusable, so I restored an earlier backup. This seems to have resolved it for now, I may have to wait before updating carbon again.
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Either you have a bad phone (possible, LG seems to have some QC issues based on some of the crazy reports Ive heard fm other people on this forum [Mine's fine]), or it's all the startup **** that you have going.
Do you usually let it discharge to below 5%?
that's a stupid idea with any device, and seems to be especially damaging to our LGOG.
OMGMatrix said:
Either you have a bad phone (possible, LG seems to have some QC issues based on some of the crazy reports Ive heard fm other people on this forum [Mine's fine]), or it's all the startup **** that you have going.
Do you usually let it discharge to below 5%?
that's a stupid idea with any device, and seems to be especially damaging to our LGOG.
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Have mine 2months been careful not to let the battery shut down on its own but thirds past Monday my car charger weren't bad and the phone shut down. Would not except a charge after that. Went to att and they sent me to a service center. They could not charge it either. They replaced it, now making sure my external battery backup its always charged. Do not want to do that again.
Sent from my LG-E970 using xda app-developers app
That sounds like that could actually be the issue. On the previous iteration of carbon I almost never allowed it to go below about 10%. However the new update seemed to be harsher on battery life and it slipped into the 1% range several times...
same thing happened to me running root box with no tweaks or anything. I woke up and the phone was off, been that way for two days now. it wasn't on the charger so its definitely possible that it died. I actually found this thread because I could've sworn there was a report of someone who had to do a battery pull. I'm thinking that's my only option now.
I'm completely at a loss here. I was running a 4.3 rom for the past week or two with no issues. Pulled my phone out of my pocket 30 min ago, hit the power button and the screen wouldn't light up. I tried it again and still no go. I tried swiping to unlock, even with the black screen and i felt it vibrate.
Ever since then my phone is non responsive. I can't get it to boot, can't hard reset it, nothing. The vibrates stop when I'm holding down power and down volume but that's about it. I timed the constant vibrates and they happen every 34 seconds according to the Win8 clock (which i've heard in inaccurate).
I'm gonna let the battery drain and hope that it will boot back up after it dies...but until then, any ideas?
Try plugging it into your computer and see what comes up. Which 4.3 ROM were you on?
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
FinZ28 said:
Try plugging it into your computer and see what comes up. Which 4.3 ROM were you on?
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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That's the first thing I tried. I get nothing when i plug it into my comp. Nothing pops up in device manager. The comp doesn't detect it at all.
And I was running the 8/23 release of carbon 4.3 and I didn't have one problem with it until this happened :\
EDIT: The phone's battery finally ran out. It stopped vibrating and after a bit i plugged it in. After a few min it just starting doing it again.
I disassembled the phone and removed the battery for awhile hoping it would somehow help. Didn't do anything. It showed the flashing charge light (like when it's really low) for maybe a minute then it stop lighting up at all. Sometimes if i leave it unplugged for a bit and plug it back in it will flash the light again. That's about all I'm getting out of it now.
I'm thinking something failed internally. It happened while it was on and I was using it so there's no possibility that it was from a flash or anything like that.
Took my phone to the sprint store. The tech wasn't sure either but he thought it might be the screen that died. The vibrating could be the phone trying to boot then realizing there's no screen. They took it apart to check for moisture/damage and said I'm good to go for the $50 replacement.
So my new Evo will be here Tuesday.
BiNiaRiS said:
Took my phone to the sprint store. The tech wasn't sure either but he thought it might be the screen that died. The vibrating could be the phone trying to boot then realizing there's no screen. They took it apart to check for moisture/damage and said I'm good to go for the $50 replacement.
So my new Evo will be here Tuesday.
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did you resolved it i'm having same had same issue as you mine is htc sensation but think is the same thing ive replacet the digitizer some day ago and it was working very good untill it start to vibrate and than died, now it flashes an orange light when i try to charge and after a while stops but i cant power it on nothing hapens when i press power button
Did you resolve the issue?
Did you ever resolve this issue? My Evo LTE started doing the exact same thing this evening and all of the Sprint stores are closed until tomorrow. I figure it's something internal that died and I can't see what it's trying to do... I guess you just got the replacement and didn't ever get it resolved with that particular phone?
BiNiaRiS said:
I'm completely at a loss here. I was running a 4.3 rom for the past week or two with no issues. Pulled my phone out of my pocket 30 min ago, hit the power button and the screen wouldn't light up. I tried it again and still no go. I tried swiping to unlock, even with the black screen and i felt it vibrate.
Ever since then my phone is non responsive. I can't get it to boot, can't hard reset it, nothing. The vibrates stop when I'm holding down power and down volume but that's about it. I timed the constant vibrates and they happen every 34 seconds according to the Win8 clock (which i've heard in inaccurate).
I'm gonna let the battery drain and hope that it will boot back up after it dies...but until then, any ideas?
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My phone has been working fine for the last year and a half regarding hardware and battery. The device itself has never given me any issues and the hardware is in pristine condition. Roughly three months ago I bought a ZeroLemon battery and case and have been using that since. The battery is also in great condition (no warping or expanding) and the case still looks brand new. BUT today when I went to use my phone (about 20 minutes after I unplugged it) I noticed it was off, and it will not turn back on at all. It will load the splash screen (it's rooted and has Xposed framework installed) but after one or two seconds it shuts of immediately. Somehow I did get it to boot into TWRP and I was able to make a quick backup, disable Xposed, run a quick factory reset and fix permissions. I flashed Cyanogen M12 and I thought everything was working fine (I was running M12 before and have been running Cyanogen for as long as I can remember.) but after 5-10 minutes the phone randomly shut off again. I have looked into this issue all day now and everyone that has had a similar problem has had battery issues. I have tried 4 different STOCK batteries today, as well as my ZeroLemon one and nothing has gotten it past the splash screen again. I am almost certain this is NOT a hardware issue but I have no idea what would cause it in the terms of software, since I haven't changed anything recently. If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to let me know. I'm looking for immediate fixes right now, so sending it back in or getting a new phone are secondary options. If you have advice just let me know in a comment or PM me, thanks guys!
Edit: At this point I can't do anything, ie: enter recovery, get the splash screen, enter odin (anything) it's like the battery is dead but the same exact battery works just fine in my friends phone.
Have you tried downloading the MDK full wipe tar, flashing it with odin, and using loki to root and bypass bootloader again?
So it turns out - after I took it apart - it has a defective power button. The actual piece that is soldered on. I don't know how to go about fixing it from here
Kind of strange but my device did the same thing today. I have tried multiple batteries with no luck. Will boot but then turn off before it reaches the boot animation. When I try to enter recovery or download mode it does the same thing.
Have either of y'all found a fix yet? My phone has the same issue (turning itself off after about 2-3 seconds after the boot animation begins).
Post number 7
Post number 8
Post number 9
Post number 10 finally
Any luck with getting the phone fixed?
ajgonzales said:
Any luck with getting the phone fixed?
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I think he said it was an issue with his power button.
Hey there. Out of nowhere today my phone rebooted on it's own and is now stuck on the "LG Life's Good" splash screen. I have the AT&T version (H900) and bone stock everything (I have not messed with bootloaders or rooting or anything). I tried removing the battery and this also does nothing. Anyone else have this issue and know what to do to fix it?
Thanks
Update: After letting the phone sit for about 20 minutes it magically booted and is now working fine... not sure what happened.
Have you tried doing a factory reset of you phone?
1) Turn off the phone.
2) Then hold down the Volume Down and Power button together for a couple of seconds.
3) As soon as the LG logo is displayed, let go of the Power key, keep pressing the Volume Down and then press once more the Power button.
Afterwards you should see a factory reset menu on your screen.
4) Confirm process by choosing appropriate options using Volume rockers to navigate and Power button to confirm.
5) Now your phone should restart.
6) Success! The hard reset has just been completed.
I am having this same problem.
Was using Pandora and GPS. It cut off and has not come back on. I attempted to open in safe mode recovery mode l and tried to-do a factory reset.
When I did the reset It went through the erasing process but when it rebooted it stayed on the LG screen. I've tried all the "common" trouble shooting suggestions... Its been two hours now.
Any new experiences with this issue?
Im also having the same issue with my V10 - Verizon model. Watching a YouTube video and it reset and got stuck on the LG logo splash screen. Followed instructions to do a factory reset and after about 45 min of being stuck on the factory reset screen after I confirmed it reset and booted up. All data and setting were still saved, and after about 3-5 minutes it reset again and went right back to being stuck on the LG splash screen.
Any other advice? or is it just dead?
I am having the same issue with my stock AT&T V10. It randomly turned off, then I couldn't even get it to turn on. No charge screen. No Life's Good. I took out the battery and it would get to the blinking red question mark, but there is no way that I can see that I can use the phone without the battery. Sometimes the phone will boot to the LG screen, but mostly it will not. Even if it does, it will shut down after 3 mins or so.
Once I tried to hard reset it, and the phone just vibrated until i took the battery out. So I dont know whats going on. The phone has been running warm when playing Pokemon Go so maybe that's the culprit? Not like I was playing it all the time though.
Luckily I moved *most* of the new baby pictures over to the microSD. Ugh, I hope I can get the rest!
downstat said:
I am having the same issue with my stock AT&T V10. It randomly turned off, then I couldn't even get it to turn on. No charge screen. No Life's Good. I took out the battery and it would get to the blinking red question mark, but there is no way that I can see that I can use the phone without the battery. Sometimes the phone will boot to the LG screen, but mostly it will not. Even if it does, it will shut down after 3 mins or so.
Once I tried to hard reset it, and the phone just vibrated until i took the battery out. So I dont know whats going on. The phone has been running warm when playing Pokemon Go so maybe that's the culprit? Not like I was playing it all the time though.
Luckily I moved *most* of the new baby pictures over to the microSD. Ugh, I hope I can get the rest!
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@downstat what a coincidence that i happen to have run into the exact same problems as you today. Phone turned off suddenly, wont turn off, took out and put back battery and now it goes into LG screen for a few, and it vibrates when i attempt safe mode. wth is this...
jjall said:
@downstat what a coincidence that i happen to have run into the exact same problems as you today. Phone turned off suddenly, wont turn off, took out and put back battery and now it goes into LG screen for a few, and it vibrates when i attempt safe mode. wth is this...
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@jjall Very odd. Glad I am not the only one, though! I chatted with an AT&T service tech last night and he basically said he has no idea what is going on, but what he read about something similar indicated that the phone and all the files are most likely corrupted. Luckily I moved most of the photos over to the extra microsd, I am going to an AT&T service center to see if they can work any magic and retrieve any other files. Last night the tech started a warranty replacement and the new(ish) phone is on its way.
I did get it to boot to the white safe mode screen but was not ready to say erase all, just in case it erases the photos. I chose to restart the phone and nothing, just black. Every once in a while the phone will just vibrate for 30 seconds before shutting down while the screen is black. Other times I get the soft vibrate as though it is turning on, but nothing happens. Some times I get the LG screen, but then that just turns off. No rhyme or reason except that I at least get some response after the phone and battery have been apart for a while.
I'll update when I get back.
downstat said:
@jjall Very odd. Glad I am not the only one, though! I chatted with an AT&T service tech last night and he basically said he has no idea what is going on, but what he read about something similar indicated that the phone and all the files are most likely corrupted. Luckily I moved most of the photos over to the extra microsd, I am going to an AT&T service center to see if they can work any magic and retrieve any other files. Last night the tech started a warranty replacement and the new(ish) phone is on its way.
I did get it to boot to the white safe mode screen but was not ready to say erase all, just in case it erases the photos. I chose to restart the phone and nothing, just black. Every once in a while the phone will just vibrate for 30 seconds before shutting down while the screen is black. Other times I get the soft vibrate as though it is turning on, but nothing happens. Some times I get the LG screen, but then that just turns off. No rhyme or reason except that I at least get some response after the phone and battery have been apart for a while.
I'll update when I get back.
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Yeah. I get the same thing. I'm taking it to att today to see if anything can be done. My only problem is that I dropped the phone a few months ago, the only time i've dropped it, and lens came off without me noticing. I'm pretty sure that voids the warranty. Either way, i'll see if i can pay for an upgrade or something. Good luck to you.
jjall said:
Yeah. I get the same thing. I'm taking it to att today to see if anything can be done. My only problem is that I dropped the phone a few months ago, the only time i've dropped it, and lens came off without me noticing. I'm pretty sure that voids the warranty. Either way, i'll see if i can pay for an upgrade or something. Good luck to you.
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My guys said they could not do anything, but as I was playing with the phone, it magically came to life! I was in the process of moving all the photos to the microsd, then it froze, crashed, then wouldn't turn on. So it's possible! They mentioned taking it to a cell-phone tech place to see if they could do anything as they have better tools to help fix things. Dunno what that would do to the warranty. The tech guys did say they dont carry any spare parts or batteries for the V10 because it never has a problem. I told them that there is a rash going around and they might see it soon.
I did notice that the colder i kept the phone, the more of a chance that it would *at least* turn on, before crashing. So at least there is hope...somewhere. Hoping a new battery will help maybe, even though it seems to be a hardware issue.
How's your luck @jjall?
downstat said:
My guys said they could not do anything, but as I was playing with the phone, it magically came to life! I was in the process of moving all the photos to the microsd, then it froze, crashed, then wouldn't turn on. So it's possible! They mentioned taking it to a cell-phone tech place to see if they could do anything as they have better tools to help fix things. Dunno what that would do to the warranty. The tech guys did say they dont carry any spare parts or batteries for the V10 because it never has a problem. I told them that there is a rash going around and they might see it soon.
I did notice that the colder i kept the phone, the more of a chance that it would *at least* turn on, before crashing. So at least there is hope...somewhere. Hoping a new battery will help maybe, even though it seems to be a hardware issue.
How's your luck @jjall?
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Actually, i just got home and I decided to try out to see if it worked. I got the 0% battery sign. Plugged it in and it actually seems to be charging! So i'm hopeful. I also noticed that my phone has been getting hot lately. And that my battery life was crap. But that's just LG. I talked to an ATT customer service rep. and they told me that I could have the camera lens replaced so that my phone would be covered for an exchange. Even if it turns on, i'm going to exchange it just as soon as save all my files. Hopefully they'll take it now that it's working....
EDIT
it decided to turn on while it was charging. Froze on booting screen. It was HOT. Like I almost dropped it.
Hmm, I was going to say "CONGRATS!" but sorry. Did the battery get hot or did the phone itself get hot? Feels like mine is getting hot at or near where the led flash is. Gonna let it stay in this LG welcome screen for a bit and find out. I'm wondering if a new battery would help, but I have to wait until the 19th though before my replacement shows up.
Also, were you playing Pokemon go before? Wondering if that is what started this all.
Hello!
So the same thing happened to me. I was not playing any games on my phone. I had JUST clocked out of work using an application on my phone and sent a text. It has turned off on its own and didn't want to even turn back on. I removed the battery and set it back in.. it turned on to the LG screen and stayed until it blacked out again shortly after.
Same issue with TMO LG V-10 here. Was using phone and it went black and shut down. Now in a loop with the LG boot screen. It tried a few times then just goes black.
Well I just got my replacement and the new battery didn't do anything to help the broken phone. Guess I am going to lose some important pictures. I have a few days to keep on trying before I have to send it back to AT&T. Interesting this is happening to a few people all around the same time.
@Buzzbee21 did you notice your phone running hot at all before the shut down? Mine was running hot a lot, so maybe the heat protection is the problem.
At time yes. Not so much when it did quit. However, I left it sit on a fan and chilled it, and one time when I was able to get to the wipe screen, before it quit again, it got very hot in the afformentioned area.
Less than a year old. Getting a warranty replacement, but still disappointed as I think having the replaceable battery and abiltiy to put a large Micro SD card in it, along with the finish, camera, and Audio make the V10 one of the nicest phones out there.
downstat said:
Well I just got my replacement and the new battery didn't do anything to help the broken phone. Guess I am going to lose some important pictures. I have a few days to keep on trying before I have to send it back to AT&T. Interesting this is happening to a few people all around the same time.
@Buzzbee21 did you notice your phone running hot at all before the shut down? Mine was running hot a lot, so maybe the heat protection is the problem.
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this may sound weird but the same thing happen to me.... put the phone in the freezer for a while then boot it up but be prepared to get your pics, music, etc off of it quick... mine works fine until it warms up to room temp, then back in the freezer it goes to do it again... did it like 4 times today and saved over 1600 pics, bunch of videos and music. (saved them to a mircoSD card)
Wow. This happened to me last night, and I thought it was the weirdest thing. I wasn't even using my phone. It was sitting on my dinner table, and I noticed the screen on with the LG logo. I went over and picked it up. It stayed on the logo a few minutes, so I took the battery out. Then I turned it on, nothing but LG screen. I kept messing with it with a combination of Power/volume down and finally got it to come on to my home screen. It worked for about five minutes before being wonky again. I took the batter out all night. I'm hoping that I can get it to come on again today (I've tried 10 times and not been able to) so that I can make sure the developer options is checked, then I can hook it to the computer and mess around with it.
Thanks for this thread. It seems most of us just started having this issue in August. I'm planning on getting the V20 next month, but I need this one to last until then. haha Please keep us updated if anyone figures anything out and I will do the same.
Slight Update
SoIDecidedTo said:
Wow. This happened to me last night, and I thought it was the weirdest thing. I wasn't even using my phone. It was sitting on my dinner table, and I noticed the screen on with the LG logo. I went over and picked it up. It stayed on the logo a few minutes, so I took the battery out. Then I turned it on, nothing but LG screen. I kept messing with it with a combination of Power/volume down and finally got it to come on to my home screen. It worked for about five minutes before being wonky again. I took the batter out all night. I'm hoping that I can get it to come on again today (I've tried 10 times and not been able to) so that I can make sure the developer options is checked, then I can hook it to the computer and mess around with it.
Thanks for this thread. It seems most of us just started having this issue in August. I'm planning on getting the V20 next month, but I need this one to last until then. haha Please keep us updated if anyone figures anything out and I will do the same.
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SO, not saying this will help anything but, after messing around with the phone for several hours I've learned this:
If you take the battery out, then plug it into your laptop, then turn it on: a battery icon will pop up with a ? on it.
From there, if you hold down the VOLUME down key, and insert the battery, it will take you into the quick boot menu automatically. Unfortunately I never set that up, and not it will not allow me to set it up. I assumed I could get to safe mode from there. This is the first time I've seen where I would have to "set up" the quick boot menu. This is my first LG phone though. I usually use HTC, or MOTO.
Now, the more interesting thing is, begin as I did last time.
Phone off, battery out, plug into computer, power on. Then hold the UP volume key as you insert the battery and it will take you to your "Tethering" option. So for most of you that have this problem, maybe you will be able to get the data to back it up. Unfortunately for me, it tells me I have to do a Firmware update first, and to not unplug the USB connection until it is complete. If your firmware is up to date, maybe it will allow you to do back up (I thought my firmware was up to date, but guess not).
I hope this helps someone, and I do hope that someone can build on what I've done so far so we can figure out how to at least get our data off the phone.
downstat said:
Hmm, I was going to say "CONGRATS!" but sorry. Did the battery get hot or did the phone itself get hot? Feels like mine is getting hot at or near where the led flash is. Gonna let it stay in this LG welcome screen for a bit and find out. I'm wondering if a new battery would help, but I have to wait until the 19th though before my replacement shows up.
Also, were you playing Pokemon go before? Wondering if that is what started this all.
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The phone got hot. It was getting hot starting from around the power buttons. And it sometimes got hot before i downloaded pokemon go. Not as often, but it happened from time to time. I think it might be because i'm no longer using the original power usb cable.... idk. Just waiting for a replacement.
Can you say the first 3 digits of the serial number of the device to boot loop problem?