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Hello,
I am considering buying an unlocked Lumia 800, for both use on AT&T's network in the States and then abroad in the Middle East during the later half of the Summer. I have never bought an unlocked device before, so I just wanted to ask about the differences between the UK and US phones -- I believe electrical outlets are different between the two areas thus the need for an adapter -- and if I'll have any troubles popping out my SIM card with my current phone and switching between the two. Abroad, I've planned on getting a local plan in the city I'm visiting, so I don't expect any trouble there.
Regarding the Lumia 800, does anyone have an idea about the pricing and how it fluctuates? Full retail at sites like Expansys are about 700 USD, while others in Asia and Europe are hovering around 500-600 USD. Obviously, I've got around 6 months to wait, so I'm anticipating it coming down to a more palatable 400 USD.
Thanks for any advice.
Most sites that will export to US will include a power charger adaptor. I got a universal plug converter with my order. So, you won't need to worry about that.
Expansys is expensive. You can currently order the black from Amazon for 509.99. I ordered my Cyan from handtec.co.uk for 353GBP + 15 for shipping (about $584 USD). Depending on where you order the phone, you'll need to fill out paperwork for the FCC to approve the import. If you order from Amazon, this should already have been done, as the phone was already imported. Since I ordered directly from UK, I got a call from FedEx to fill out the forms while the plane was still in the air. Was the fastest shipping I'd ever seen. 36hrs from ordering from UK to receiving here in Seattle.
Be aware, also, that current versions of the Lumia 800 do not support the AT&T 850Mhz for 3G. For me, this is noticeable in my apartment, but nowhere else. If you wait a month or so, the US variant (RM-819) supporing WCDMA V (850MHz) will become available unlocked direct from Microsoft.
its 500 on amazon and comes with an adapter. newegg is $550 and works on 850 i ordered there and it came with the adapter.
falconeight said:
its 500 on amazon and comes with an adapter. newegg is $550 and works on 850 i ordered there and it came with the adapter.
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Can you confirm that Newegg sells the variant that works on WCDMA 850? This isn't the same as GSM 850. They show the Lumia 800 as a deactivated item. And, when it was active, it show the same incorrect WCDMA bands as most other retailers out there.
Thanks for the quick responses. I didn't know about the incompatible 3G bands or the US version's upcoming release, so I'll wait and see if I can get a decent deal there. Also, newegg was shown as unavailable when I last checked.
I did just see the Lumia 900 was announced, with a release date pegged for March. My upgrade is sometime around May-July, so that may be for consideration. Only problem will be AT&T's policy on exclusive phones and mid-contract for unlocking phones. Hopefully, the homebrew scene gets more active as more users get onto the platform -- I'm thinking of a parallel with the iPhone jailbreak/unlocking bits from the iPhone Dev Team.
I'd wait until early February for them to be sold unlocked in Microsoft retail stores and online.
Should (hopefully) be cheaper than what it costs to import one currently. It's hard to wait though and I'm dying to get one. lol
darkintragedy said:
I'd wait until early February for them to be sold unlocked in Microsoft retail stores and online.
Should (hopefully) be cheaper than what it costs to import one currently. It's hard to wait though and I'm dying to get one. lol
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Not so sure about that. It'll still be slightly exclusive for a bit. I also think that it's going to be bundled with a few other things.
I'm looking forward to the availability of the c-1031 sleeves that come with the phones. I'd like a spare cyan, and then one of each color, for the fun of it.
anseio said:
Can you confirm that Newegg sells the variant that works on WCDMA 850? This isn't the same as GSM 850. They show the Lumia 800 as a deactivated item. And, when it was active, it show the same incorrect WCDMA bands as most other retailers out there.
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Yep it does and I own it. It has it in the listing and if its wrong return it. I am in Colorado Spring and have the same coverage as my wife's iPhone 4s.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205257
falconeight said:
Yep it does and I own it. It has it in the listing and if its wrong return it. I am in Colorado Spring and have the same coverage as my wife's iPhone 4s.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205257
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This is going to sound rude, but I don't believe it. It's already been admitted by many UK retailers that they posted the specs that Nokia has on their website, which are incorrect.
There are two versions of the Lumia 800. The EU Variant (RM-801), which is quad GSM and tri WCDMA 900/1900/2100; and a US variant (RM-819), which is also quad GSM, but tri WCDMA 850/900/1900. The US variant has not been released yet, neither has its firmware. There are quite a few people waiting on that firmware to see if it may open up 850 on the RM-801. That depends on if the devices are tri-band due to hardware limitations or firmware limitations.
This can be confirmed by referencing the outermost packaging that your Lumia came in. The one with the bar codes on it. What is the FCC ID line? I'll attach a photo of mine.
Given that AT&T uses a lot of the 1900 WCDMA bandwidth, you probably won't notice a difference between it and a 4s. Here's how I can tell the difference. I own a Nokia 6700 classic (tri WCDMA 900/1900/2100). I owned it before AT&T put out the HSPA upgrades and I got amazing reception in my apartment. After HSPA rolled out, my signal got really shotty and kept dropping out and down to 2G. I then got a Telstra HTC HD2 (850MHz). It functions perfectly in my apartment and does not drop down to 2G. I can tether at HSPA w/o needing to have my phone right up against the window in order to keep 3G signal.
Now that I have the Lumia 800 (RM-801), I cannot keep good 3G in my apartment, but 2G is fine. This means that the 850 band is the one that bends enough to get inside. The 1900 glances by.
I'm willing to bet that Newegg may have done what most other sellers did and just pasted the specs w/o verifying. After all, why would they need to, right? Nokia should have put out the correct information to start with.
anseio said:
This is going to sound rude, but I don't believe it. It's already been admitted by many UK retailers that they posted the specs that Nokia has on their website, which are incorrect.
There are two versions of the Lumia 800. The EU Variant (RM-801), which is quad GSM and tri WCDMA 900/1900/2100; and a US variant (RM-819), which is also quad GSM, but tri WCDMA 850/900/1900. The US variant has not been released yet, neither has its firmware. There are quite a few people waiting on that firmware to see if it may open up 850 on the RM-801. That depends on if the devices are tri-band due to hardware limitations or firmware limitations.
This can be confirmed by referencing the outermost packaging that your Lumia came in. The one with the bar codes on it. What is the FCC ID line? I'll attach a photo of mine.
Given that AT&T uses a lot of the 1900 WCDMA bandwidth, you probably won't notice a difference between it and a 4s. Here's how I can tell the difference. I own a Nokia 6700 classic (tri WCDMA 900/1900/2100). I owned it before AT&T put out the HSPA upgrades and I got amazing reception in my apartment. After HSPA rolled out, my signal got really shotty and kept dropping out and down to 2G. I then got a Telstra HTC HD2 (850MHz). It functions perfectly in my apartment and does not drop down to 2G. I can tether at HSPA w/o needing to have my phone right up against the window in order to keep 3G signal.
Now that I have the Lumia 800 (RM-801), I cannot keep good 3G in my apartment, but 2G is fine. This means that the 850 band is the one that bends enough to get inside. The 1900 glances by.
I'm willing to bet that Newegg may have done what most other sellers did and just pasted the specs w/o verifying. After all, why would they need to, right? Nokia should have put out the correct information to start with.
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My box looks nothing like that and doesn't have any of those markings. That is a Nokia lumia 800 box for a carrier. I also have had phones that don't support 850 and I don't get 3g/4g on them. I do on this phone
falconeight said:
My box looks nothing like that and doesn't have any of those markings. That is a Nokia lumia 800 box for a carrier. I also have had phones that don't support 850 and I don't get 3g/4g on them. I do on this phone
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Our stickers may look different, because I have the Cyan version.
According to Nokia customer care, and many other articles online, your device does not have 850MHz. The product code is RM-801.
http://forums.wpcentral.com/lumia-800/184412.htm
http://discussions.nokiausa.com/t5/...ne/Lumia-800-UMTS-850Mhz-support/td-p/1236631 (look at the 2nd to last post).
I have the black from Amazon's intial selling - so spent low $600s but haven't looked back.
The box DID include a USA outlet adaptor.
If you're on ATT, you still have a good shot of getting 3G if you're in a major area.
I'm T-Mobile, so only getting EDGE - but still lovvin it!
anseio said:
Our stickers may look different, because I have the Cyan version.
According to Nokia customer care, and many other articles online, your device does not have 850MHz. The product code is RM-801.
http://forums.wpcentral.com/lumia-800/184412.htm
http://discussions.nokiausa.com/t5/...ne/Lumia-800-UMTS-850Mhz-support/td-p/1236631 (look at the 2nd to last post).
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There is no US variant right now
falconeight said:
There is no US variant right now
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Have you actually READ anything about this phone?
Of course there's a US variant. It's getting released possibly next month.
Why the product codes are mentioned is so that people can confirm that sellers are indeed selling the right bands as they quote. There is no quad band WCDMA Lumia 800 until you can prove otherwise. There is no information on your device that contradicts anything that I've already quoted.
anseio said:
Have you actually READ anything about this phone?
Of course there's a US variant. It's getting released possibly next month.
Why the product codes are mentioned is so that people can confirm that sellers are indeed selling the right bands as they quote. There is no quad band WCDMA Lumia 800 until you can prove otherwise. There is no information on your device that contradicts anything that I've already quoted.
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Come on those links you posted are before it was announced. I have the 850 variant because that is the band in my area. You don't because you have the UK model that was released unlocked for the UK. Until you can provide information other than hearsay that there is no 850 then your just spreading rumor.
---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------
I called Nokia after getting the number off of twitter and there are variants that have the 850 wcdma that are unlocked. I gave them my imei number and my phone is from Norway which has the 850 band. You can check the country specific website and they list the correct bands.
http://www.nokia.com/no-no/produkter/telefon/lumia800/spesifikasjoner/
falconeight said:
Come on those links you posted are before it was announced. I have the 850 variant because that is the band in my area. You don't because you have the UK model that was released unlocked for the UK. Until you can provide information other than hearsay that there is no 850 then your just spreading rumor.
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I'm curious to know how you seem to be the only person around xda who has 850Mhz on his Lumia 800.
anseio said:
I'm curious to know how you seem to be the only person around xda who has 850Mhz on his Lumia 800.
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Why am I the only one? How do you know?
GSM 850mhz like mine I bet. I get 3G at 3-4mbit/1 speed on AT&T. What speed are you getting falcon?
falconeight said:
Why am I the only one? How do you know?
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Because no one else here has posted an image or anything definitive that their Lumia 800 has 850MHz on it. Only product literature from the selling website.
falconeight said:
That is a Nokia lumia 800 box for a carrier.
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Not true.
My Lumia is unlocked and unbranded. It was shipped directly from Nokia in Helsinki and I have that box too.
Since Nokia does clearly say everywhere else except the US that 920 does support 1700Mhz (for obvious reasons), I wonder if the hardware in the AT&T version will be the same as in the int'l version and it'll just be a matter of unlocking the phone to use it on TMo.
Opinions?
I noticed that too!!
Its now PentaBand WCDMA/HSPA+ at 42Mbps. They added WCDMA 1700Mhz band on the specs.
Originally when the phone was announced last month was listed as QuadBand WCDMA missing the AWS band at 1700Mhz.
If this is true it means one of the following:
1.The band was always there and for some reason software locked and they decided unlock it and release it as a PendaBand.
2.They listen to the complaints (pretty much the same way they did and released the Cyan Color) as the missing AWS band was one the biggest complaints especially from T-Mobile USA subscribers and they decided to include it as well.
3.It is just a typo and Lumia 920 is still QuadBand HSPA.
4.It was a typo from the very beginning and Lumia 920 was always PentaBand.
Now assuming the the phone is PendaBand HSPA+ it will perfectly work with T-Mobile USA current 3G at AWS and with the reformed Network at 1900 they are preparing. It will work with both at 42Mbps speed.
The original unlocked Lumia 920 listed the following 5 LTE bands 800 / 1800 / 2600 / 900 / 2100.
If the unlocked phone comes with those LTE bands will be incompatible with T-Mobile USA upcoming 4G LTE network.
However the American model which AT&T will carry exclusively has the following LTE bands 700 / 850 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100
If Nokia also release an unlock/unbranded version of the American model with the above LTE bands and PentaBand HSPA+ this model along with the 42Mbps HSPA will also support T-Mobile's upcoming 4G LTE that coming mid of next year with theoretical speeds of 100Mbps.
Releasing this device will be the perfect option for T-Mobile subscribers as it will be future-proof for their upcoming LTE network.
I am curious to see whats really going on here. Meanwhile I am crossing my fingers. :good:
So Nokia needs to release a international us version?
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
lovenokia said:
So Nokia needs to release a international us version?
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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Unlocked/Unbranded version of the American model is the correct way of putting it.
Nokia used to have to versions of the unlock devices in the past. The regular version which was usually the European/International model and the NAM versions for North America.
Many devices came like that in the past including the N95 & N95 NAM, 5800 & 5800 NAM, N97 & N97 NAM etc.
All had QuadBand GSM and different bands for 3G, the NAM versions had the American bands for AT&T USA and Rogers for Canada.
Now that PentaBand is standard for 3G/WCDMA, they need to release (and I hope this is the case) the European Model with the European LTE bands and a "NAM" model with the American LTE frequencies.
I guess time will tell what exactly the case is going to be.
But again this is for LTE. Assuming that the information on the spec-sheet is correct and the Lumia 920 comes with WCDMA/AWS 1700 then it will work perfectly with T-Mobile USA and AT&T's HSPA+ at 42Mpbs.
nMIK-3 said:
I noticed that too!!
Its now PentaBand WCDMA/HSPA+ at 42Mbps. They added WCDMA 1700Mhz band on the specs.
Originally when the phone was announced last month was listed as QuadBand WCDMA missing the AWS band at 1700Mhz.
If this is true it means one of the following:
1.The band was always there and for some reason software locked and they decided unlock it and release it as a PendaBand.
2.They listen to the complaints (pretty much the same way they did and released the Cyan Color) as the missing AWS band was one the biggest complaints especially from T-Mobile USA subscribers and they decided to include it as well.
3.It is just a typo and Lumia 920 is still QuadBand HSPA.
4.It was a typo from the very beginning and Lumia 920 was always PentaBand.
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Unfortunatly number 3 is the correct answer.
According to WPCentral.com the AWS 1700Mhz WCDMA support for T-Mobile 3G that listed in specs are just a typo on the website.
If this is the case, you can still use the Lumia 920 under T-Mobile 3G at 1900Mhz.
T-Mobile is reforming their Network and releasing 3G to 1900Mhz now, the problem is that we do not know what markets/areas has this already or how fast the project is moving on and when it will get complete..
nMIK-3 said:
Unfortunatly number 3 is the correct answer.
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That's wrong, because this phone will be using the Snapdragon S4 Plus (MSM8960) which uses Software Defined Radio (SDR) for determining their bands. Obviously you cannot use all at the same time, but any one at any time. The HW supports this (according to the Qualcomm reference design), and if it hasn't been supported before in this chipset, it's probably due poor modem programming and/or unstable behavior, and/or band/bandwidth throttling by service providers networks. It's also an efficient way to make sure your Verizon mobile cannot use AT&T networks and vice verse...
E:V:A said:
That's wrong, because this phone will be using the Snapdragon S4 Plus (MSM8960) which uses Software Defined Radio (SDR) for determining their bands. Obviously you cannot use all at the same time, but any one at any time. The HW supports this (according to the Qualcomm reference design), and if it hasn't been supported before in this chipset, it's probably due poor modem programming and/or unstable behavior, and/or band/bandwidth throttling by service providers networks. It's also an efficient way to make sure your Verizon mobile cannot use AT&T networks and vice verse...
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That is why I said its Number 3, according to WPCentral. I am aware of the SDR in the latest generation of Snapdragons, however as its name mention its programmable, meaning they may have turn off the AWS...
For me it doesn't make any sense to list the phone originally with QuadBand WCDMA and then add AWS and list it as a PentaBand.
I mean if it is wrong and its missing the AWS that is making the original listing with QuadBand the correct one, so why they bother changing it?
In the other hand if the SDR scenario applies and the AWS is already there, they may just heard the complains and simply turned ON the AWS band, that is why they added in to the specs meanwhile the Nokia representative that WPCentral reached may not be aware of the new specs yet...
All these are different scenarios, unless we have an official clarification from Nokia, we cannot know for sure until Lumia 920 its been released.
PS. Can you post the link with the detailed specifications of the Snapdragon S4 detailing the SDR? The specs I found does not include any information regarding this. If I am not mistaken and remember correctly SDR is affecting LTE only and its able to catch from 700Mhz - 2600Mhz (for LTE), its programmable to deliver everything between these bands but limited to deliver 5 Bands at a time. I do not remember mentioning WCDMA to be compatible with the SDR, but I may be wrong on that. Please feel free to correct me if that's the case.
According to FCC documents, looks like AWS is there. Question... Will it be disabled in the AT&T version? Unlock possible?
herzzreh said:
According to FCC documents, looks like AWS is there. Question... Will it be disabled in the AT&T version? Unlock possible?
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I read that the FCC Documents for the AT&T model are mentioning AWS (1700) for LTE. This is normal as AT&T's LTE is operating also in AWS.
I didn't read anything regarding AWS for 3G/WCDMA.
If you read back, it specifically mentions wcdma 1700. Document differentiates between lte freqs and wcdma ones.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
You don't mention where you are, but that might help respondents.
As you may know, the LTE bands are different between the NA and Europe. The LTE Bands listed on the international version are 800/900/1800/2100/2600 while the NA(Rogers & AT&T) version has 700/850/1700/1900/2100.
Are you sure you are connecting to the LTE bands? Do you have an LTE SIM installed?
tomdjp said:
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
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Have a look at this offivial Blog post from Nokia.
http://goo.gl/L2eiy
They basically saying that even-thought the new Lumias are LTE ready they will required a software update to turn LTE ON.
The information on that is very limited as Nokia didn't specify ANY details on how they will push this OTA.
What happens if you have an unlock device and use it in a different country of its origins? How they will push the update under what criteria?
Is the update is driven by the SIM ID? They will update the OS and turn ON LTE depending the SIM region or the device IMEI region?? Nobody knows...
Even worst there is a rumor that the latest Snapdragon S4 is supporting all 9 LTE bands at ONCE and the software just enable the appropriate ones, its programmable from the firmware. If this is true, then Nokia is committing a suicide here, they can simply program WP8 to recognize the SIM ID and turn ON/OFF LTE Bands depending the Network. Going with OTAs across different devices and regions will be a mess.
nMIK-3 said:
Have a look at this offivial Blog post from Nokia.
http://goo.gl/L2eiy
They basically saying that even-thought the new Lumias are LTE ready they will required a software update to turn LTE ON.
The information on that is very limited as Nokia didn't specify ANY details on how they will push this OTA.
What happens if you have an unlock device and use it in a different country of its origins? How they will push the update under what criteria?
Is the update is driven by the SIM ID? They will update the OS and turn ON LTE depending the SIM region or the device IMEI region?? Nobody knows...
Even worst there is a rumor that the latest Snapdragon S4 is supporting all 9 LTE bands at ONCE and the software just enable the appropriate ones, its programmable from the firmware. If this is true, then Nokia is committing a suicide here, they can simply program WP8 to recognize the SIM ID and turn ON/OFF LTE Bands depending the Network. Going with OTAs across different devices and regions will be a mess.
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There are international versions that HAVE ALL 9 LTE bands enabled and also petaband 3G.
For example in Germany:
http://www.nokia.com/de-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
or in Singapore:
http://www.nokia.com/sg-en/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/ (expand where it says "Hardware")
or also in Switzerland:
http://www.nokia.com/ch-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
I think there might be a good chance that you can unlock those extra bands on international versions (RM-821) that have them disabled by flashing a different firmware version. However this is just me thinking out loud so please don't blame me if it doesn't work or if it breaks your phone!
However I would strong discourage you from flashing an RM-821 firmware to an RM-820 (North American version) as I know that sb around here almost broke his phone by doing so.
Hi all
Thanks for your replies so far.
Right now I am using the phone in Japan, where there are three carriers with Band 1 (2100 MHz) LTE networks. I only tried one carrier so far, and yes it is an LTE SIM. As mentioned, I can actually connect to LTE and have used it for several hours, it's just necessary to use an unreliable trick (with ##3282#) to get the phone to see the LTE network. This seems related to the fact there is no 4G option in my highest connection settings.
Thanks for the heads-up on the OTA updates, agreed it's not clear how this will work at all...
Regarding the LTE band support, personally (although it's just my intuition) I think the lists of 9 LTE supported bands on those regional Nokia websites are probably in error (it wouldn't be the first time). Normally the most reliable source in Nokia's website is Nokia Developers, which clearly shows five bands for global RM-821 (1, 3, 7, 8, 20) and four bands for AT&T RM-820 (2, 4, 5, 17).
While the Snapdragon baseband may be able to support all 9 bands, the most difficult part of the design is the RF - filters, amplifiers, etc. So I imagine different RF chains are used in the two variants to support these specific bands.
Again, if anyone has the unlocked RM-821 and tried with an LTE SIM, if you could confirm if the 4G setting is available in highest connection settings, it would be much appreciated.
karlmueller said:
There are international versions that HAVE ALL 9 LTE bands enabled and also petaband 3G.
For example in Germany:
http://www.nokia.com/de-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
or in Singapore:
http://www.nokia.com/sg-en/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/ (expand where it says "Hardware")
or also in Switzerland:
http://www.nokia.com/ch-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
I think there might be a good chance that you can unlock those extra bands on international versions (RM-821) that have them disabled by flashing a different firmware version. However this is just me thinking out loud so please don't blame me if it doesn't work or if it breaks your phone!
However I would strong discourage you from flashing an RM-821 firmware to an RM-820 (North American version) as I know that sb around here almost broke his phone by doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the same thing on PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, however in another discussion we verified (at least for the German model) that even thought the Nokia German website states PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, in the retail Box it only mentions QuadBand 3G (AWS missing) and PentaBand LTE.
With the Canadian model being PentaBand and Snapdragon's S4 Specs claiming that is fully supporting it, along with the programmable LTE, we really have no clue of whats really going on until Nokia, or anyone else clarify it...
I have a very bad feeling that the all 920s are PentaBand 3G and support all bands of LTE with programmable software but Nokia for some reason is locking specific bands on specific models/regions.
Hopefully in time we will clarify everything and hopefully its sooner rather than later..
nMIK-3 said:
I thought the same thing on PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, however in another discussion we verified (at least for the German model) that even thought the Nokia German website states PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, in the retail Box it only mentions QuadBand 3G (AWS missing) and PentaBand LTE.
With the Canadian model being PentaBand and Snapdragon's S4 Specs claiming that is fully supporting it, along with the programmable LTE, we really have no clue of whats really going on until Nokia, or anyone else clarify it...
I have a very bad feeling that the all 920s are PentaBand 3G and support all bands of LTE with programmable software but Nokia for some reason is locking specific bands on specific models/regions.
Hopefully in time we will clarify everything and hopefully its sooner rather than later..
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Different frequency bands require different antenna design. It is probably very difficult to design an antenna that can satisfy all LTE bands even though the chipset can support it. So, instead, Nokia is probably going to selectively make different hardware with different antenna design to fit a specific region. Apple iPhone 5 uses the similar Qualcomm chipset and it only supports very limited LTE bands for international version.
foxbat121 said:
Different frequency bands require different antenna design. It is probably very difficult to design an antenna that can satisfy all LTE bands even though the chipset can support it. So, instead, Nokia is probably going to selectively make different hardware with different antenna design to fit a specific region. Apple iPhone 5 uses the similar Qualcomm chipset and it only supports very limited LTE bands for international version.
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Click to collapse
For 3G PentaBand is now standard in almost all chips and since the Canadian variant comes with PentaBand on board and the fact that is standard on the S4 I really see no reason of why Nokia will order a custom version of the S4 to just physically take off the AWS. It doesn't make any sense, so if its missing, most likely is turn off in firmware.
For the LTE. Qualcomm introduced a revolutionary technology called Software Defined Radio or simply SDR and the Snapdragon S4 Plus MSM8960 chip which is inside the Lumia 920, supports that technology. With SDR the chipset support all LTE bands from a low to high frequency, it can work in everything between, of course not at the same time, the software programs what frequency the antenna should be set.
If the Lumia 920 and its S4 really have SDR technology, they it will make sense for Nokia to have the firmware deride what LTE to make available to the user, by reading the SIM region and not providing individual updated per region, or based on device product number.
This finally solves a major issue for the manufactures because they do not have to build customs chips for specific countries, the software simply programs it. If you Google it you can find a lot of info regarding SDR. Of course we are not in the engineering team of the Lumia 920 line and its obvious whatever we say here is based on theory and specs that are available to us.
nMIK-3 said:
For 3G PentaBand is now standard in almost all chips and since the Canadian variant comes with PentaBand on board and the fact that is standard on the S4 I really see no reason of why Nokia will order a custom version of the S4 to just physically take off the AWS. It doesn't make any sense, so if its missing, most likely is turn off in firmware.
For the LTE. Qualcomm introduced a revolutionary technology called Software Defined Radio or simply SDR and the Snapdragon S4 Plus MSM8960 chip which is inside the Lumia 920, supports that technology. With SDR the chipset support all LTE bands from a low to high frequency, it can work in everything between, of course not at the same time, the software programs what frequency the antenna should be set.
If the Lumia 920 and its S4 really have SDR technology, they it will make sense for Nokia to have the firmware deride what LTE to make available to the user, by reading the SIM region and not providing individual updated per region, or based on device product number.
This finally solves a major issue for the manufactures because they do not have to build customs chips for specific countries, the software simply programs it. If you Google it you can find a lot of info regarding SDR. Of course we are not in the engineering team of the Lumia 920 line and its obvious whatever we say here is based on theory and specs that are available to us.
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If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
foxbat121 said:
If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
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We're going a bit off-topic from the thread here, but you're right - SDR defines the baseband, not the RF components.
If you look at Nokia's FCC filing for the RM-821, you can see it has two cellular antennas ("main" and "MIMO") for each of two bands ("HB" high-band and "LB" low-band). Presumably LB is used for bands below 1 GHz or so, while HB is used for bands above. So you can see it's not necessary to have different antennas for every band - bands 1 to 4 (including AWS) could also use the same antennas, for example.
However, each band needs its own RF filters to prevent interference from neighbouring channels, and also needs amplifiers that have flat gain over those bands. These RF components are usually band specific, relatively bulky and expensive, and there are some challenges to use several RF chains in parallel. To my understanding these are the limiting factors that explain why a given device tends to support maximum 4 or 5 LTE channels.
tomdjp said:
We're going a bit off-topic from the thread here, but you're right - SDR defines the baseband, not the RF components.
If you look at Nokia's FCC filing for the RM-821, you can see it has two cellular antennas ("main" and "MIMO") for each of two bands ("HB" high-band and "LB" low-band). Presumably LB is used for bands below 1 GHz or so, while HB is used for bands above. So you can see it's not necessary to have different antennas for every band - bands 1 to 4 (including AWS) could also use the same antennas, for example.
However, each band needs its own RF filters to prevent interference from neighbouring channels, and also needs amplifiers that have flat gain over those bands. These RF components are usually band specific, relatively bulky and expensive, and there are some challenges to use several RF chains in parallel. To my understanding these are the limiting factors that explain why a given device tends to support maximum 4 or 5 LTE channels.
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You nail it.
foxbat121 said:
If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
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Click to collapse
Is that a joke?? I am spending my time explaining what SDR is and I am getting that respond??
I am assuming that I am talking with a person that knows at least a modern chipset like the S4 package contains all the antennas for GSM/WCDMA/LTE a separate antenna for Bluetooth and Wifi, GPS (S4 also includes GLONASS), the CPU and the Adreno GPU.
All the above come in the same tinny chip that in the size of your nail. And all this is called the "chipset". Qualcomm does not use a separate antenna anymore its integrated to the chipset.
nMIK-3 said:
Is that a joke?? I am spending my time explaining what SDR is and I am getting that respond??
I am assuming that I am talking with a person that knows at least a modern chipset like the S4 package contains all the antennas for GSM/WCDMA/LTE a separate antenna for Bluetooth and Wifi, GPS (S4 also includes GLONASS), the CPU and the Adreno GPU.
All the above come in the same tinny chip that in the size of your nail. And all this is called the "chipset". Qualcomm does not use a separate antenna anymore its integrated to the chipset.
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With respect, that's not right - the antennas and RF components are external to the chipset.
Go and get the SAR compliance test report for Nokia 920 from the FCC's website, and you can see diagrams showing the external antennas for cellular, WLAN/BT and GPS which are positioned in various places inside the phone's chassis (btw, the LB MIMO antenna is about 7 cm long!)
Or go and check out the iFixit teardown for iPhone 5 and you can see the same kind of thing...
tomdjp said:
With respect, that's not right - the antennas and RF components are external to the chipset.
Go and get the SAR compliance test report for Nokia 920 from the FCC's website, and you can see diagrams showing the external antennas for cellular, WLAN/BT and GPS which are positioned in various places inside the phone's chassis (btw, the LB MIMO antenna is about 7 cm long!)
Or go and check out the iFixit teardown for iPhone 5 and you can see the same kind of thing...
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That is correct. Many manufactures are placing antenna extensions and putting additional GPS censor in more practical areas.
The actual GSM/WCDMA/LTE modem WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS for Qualacom solutions are placed inside the chipset.
Please see http://www.qualcomm.com/chipsets/snapdragon for more information.
4g / LTE
tomdjp said:
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
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I go into into field test mode and it says 4g then asks what LTE Band. My phone shows 4G not LTE in top left... is it LTE or 3G+?
Does anyone know what the different bands stand for? (band 5 etc) under the field service menu?
zok-star said:
Does anyone know what the different bands stand for? (band 5 etc) under the field service menu?
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Likely they are LTE bands (e.g. band 5 = 850 MHz), but as you probably noticed they don't completely match with the LTE band support of the device. Keep in mind this field test program was probably thrown together by Nokia's R&D guys for internal testing only (not for consumers), so could be a legacy of earlier testing, another device variant, or some other reason...
Anyway, it seems fine to keep this setting on Automatic.
dougwallace said:
I go into into field test mode and it says 4g then asks what LTE Band. My phone shows 4G not LTE in top left... is it LTE or 3G+?
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Hi Doug, could you share what version of the Lumia 920 you have, and which firmware?
As mentioned in my mail above, there seems no problem to leave the 4G band on automatic, and the bands available to be selected don't seem relevant. (My device picks up Band 1 LTE networks even though band 1 is not in the list).
Regarding 4G vs LTE, my device (unlocked UK CV) shows 4G in the top left when it is connected to LTE. I assume this can be changed by Nokia depending on the operator's requirement (esp in the US where 4G means HSPA...). You can be sure you're on LTE by going back to the field test menu, selecting GSM option, then looking at "Radio Access Technology". If you're on LTE, it should say LTE there.
tomdjp said:
Likely they are LTE bands (e.g. band 5 = 850 MHz), but as you probably noticed they don't completely match with the LTE band support of the device. Keep in mind this field test program was probably thrown together by Nokia's R&D guys for internal testing only (not for consumers), so could be a legacy of earlier testing, another device variant, or some other reason...
Anyway, it seems fine to keep this setting on Automatic.
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Click to collapse
I've kept mine on all automatic and i have noticed it switch to 4G at times, but then when i go to use it, it'll flick back to 3G... I'll need to test this in CBD sometime this week.
I got my device from clove, but im in Australia on Telstra 4G network. They use 1800mhz.
zok-star said:
I've kept mine on all automatic and i have noticed it switch to 4G at times, but then when i go to use it, it'll flick back to 3G... I'll need to test this in CBD sometime this week.
I got my device from clove, but im in Australia on Telstra 4G network. They use 1800mhz.
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Hi, yes better to test in CBD where there's strong LTE signal.
In your Settings => Mobile Network, do you have a "4G" option under "Highest connection speed", or is it 2G and 3G only?
Hello All,
I have just purchased a Lumia 920 RED. On the box it says Nokia 920.1 CV FR Rouge.
It then says GSM & WCDMA and a load of frequencies.
Will this support LTE for internet (if my provider supports LTE of course).
Thanks for your comments.
Nicholas Cross
Since no-one has answered, I sent an e-mail directly to Nokia. Here is the response that they sent. It answers the question very nicely.
Thank you for contacting us with your concern.
This is in reference to your email to us asking about the support of the Nokia Lumia 920 to LTE (Long-Term Evolution or 4G network). We are more than happy to assist you on this.
In response to your concern, please be advised that all Nokia Lumia 920s support 2G, 3G and 4G network/LTE. This means that the phone can be used with the fastest network connection yet. This, however, will depend on the network provider you will be using your phone with. For example, if your current network provider do not support 4G network, the device's LTE capability will not be utilised and 3G network will be used.
To confirm this issue, we suggest that you contact your network provider and ask them if they do offer 4G network as the phone supports it indeed.
Looks like you got the European model.
The EU model has different LTE frequencies than the American one.
So depending in what country you will be using this device and what provider, the phone may support or not 3G and/or 4GLTE.
nMIK-3 said:
Looks like you got the European model.
The EU model has different LTE frequencies than the American one.
So depending in what country you will be using this device and what provider, the phone may support or not 3G and/or 4GLTE.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Yes, I have the European version (since I live in Luxembourg). My question wasn't really whether it would get 3G here because of maybe not being on the right frequency, but whether it would get LTE since it didn't mention LTE on the box at all.
I have updated the rom a new version that the Nokia Care Suite found, and now it seems to have changed something because now it often shows that it is connecting as H+. I also asked my phone provider if they offer LTE on standard contracts, and they told me that they don't (for the moment) offer LTE on voice contracts. They only offer it on data ONLY contracts, so for the moment this means that H+ is the best that I can get.
So far, I am impressed with the device, but I am slightly concerned with the battery life. It doesn't seem to be as good as the HTC 7 Pro that I had before, and my wife's Lumia 900 also seems to get better battery life.
The device is new, so it could be that the battery needs "conditioning". Will see how things go.
Have a good weekend!!
nebc100 said:
Thanks for the response. Yes, I have the European version (since I live in Luxembourg).
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Click to collapse
CV FR means Country Variant France, so you got the french version. german, french an belgium version should all support LTE 800/900/1800/2100/2600 so you will be fine (luxembourg uses 900/1800). i don't think there exists a version of the NL920 without LTE, but you can easily check it. go to settings -> mobile network and see what you can choose for highest connection speed. there should be 3 options, 2G/3G/4G (with the old Firmware it was LTE instead of 4G)
nebc100 said:
I also asked my phone provider if they offer LTE on standard contracts, and they told me that they don't (for the moment) offer LTE on voice contracts. They only offer it on data ONLY contracts, so for the moment this means that H+ is the best that I can get.
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Click to collapse
Orange? They will offer LTE for voice contracts as soon as they get VoLTE ready. sometime in Q1 2013 if i remember correctly.
Thanks for the info regarding VoLTE!!
I had already checked the network settings, and that was why I was concerned. On my phone, it only offered 2G and 3G!!
I have since updated (using the Nokia Suite) the rom, and now the 4G option is there, and I have also seen the H+ symbol show on my data connection.
my only concern now is the battery life, and that seems to be MUCH better with the new rom.
have a great weekend.
I have a Lumia 920 unlocked German version which brought support for the 4G setting from release. I recently flashed it to the Austrian ROM given that I live in Austria. That removed the 4G option. Last friday I then decided to flash the phone to Portico as I hadn't had that much data added to it and that restored the 4G option.
This is in line with what Nokia had been communicating for some time: all Lumia 920 devices have LTE hardware on board but it is not enabled on all pending a future software update. With Portico this now seems to be the case. H+ has been working nicely for me even with the 3G only ROMs which makes sense given that it is just a faster transfer mode on top of UMTS.
I couldn't try out LTE yet as my carrier only has it operational in some locations quite some distance from my home. Therefore I currently have limited it to 3G to avoid the phone looking for an LTE network all the time.
Hello,
I can not get LTE working with my black Lumia 920.
The phone is supposedly RM-821 global version with pentaband LTE support disabled in firmware. Bought in Vietnam from official retailer and I am using it here in Finland where I live (LTE frequencies 1800 and 2600 are used by my operator). There is no 4G option in settings->mobile network->highest connection speed. I can go to field test menu (##3282+call) -> settings and select 4G only there but as soon as I leave that menu the setting reverts back to whatever it was set before. Also no LTE network is found during the time I stay in the menu.
This issue is driving me nuts.
Here is what I have tried so far with no success resolving the issue:
- Flashing in 8-10 different firmwares/softwares (several different region rm-821 models including finnish) with Nokia care suite.
- Called my operator several times and requested and got a new sim card to rule out the possibility that the problem lies there.
- Called nokia customer care twice and they keep telling me that the phone - for being the global variant - has LTE support on hardware level but it is just disabled in software.
- Checked the APN settings. If I select the access point with access point name for 4G network with my operator I don´t get connected at all. It says 3G in the topbar but network simply doesn´t work.
- Done this all in area where there should be 99,9% certainty for LTE-network availability.
So if anyone can point out something that I have missed or could still try please do. Would be highly appreciated!
You say it has octaband support. Have you confirmed what frequencies it operates at? It is possible that even being octaband versus pentaband that your frequency is not in that phones range. Is there any documentation that says what bands your model supports?
Solarenemy68 said:
You say it has octaband support. Have you confirmed what frequencies it operates at? It is possible that even being octaband versus pentaband that your frequency is not in that phones range. Is there any documentation that says what bands your model supports?
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Sorry I mean pentaband ofcourse. It is supposed to support the 800, 900, 1800, 2100 and 2600mhz frequencies.
dmt123 said:
Sorry I mean pentaband ofcourse. It is supposed to support the 800, 900, 1800, 2100 and 2600mhz frequencies.
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Now that is out of the way, are you sure that your provider has LTE coverage in your exact area? Not just over all but at your exact location? Also is the signal you get at your location normally strong. If it is not strong enough the phone will drop to a lower band to conserve bandwidth.
you may find that nokia has not enabled it yet, they my do so at a later date by firmware .. the CVBG also do not have 4g working out of the box
I am having the same problem.. I bought a 920 when on holiday in Thailand.. now back home and it will not show 4G.. only 3G... whereas my 820 gets 4G fine...
Its an rm-821... and like the original poster i tried flashing a known 4G firmware onto the phone..
Do they actually manufacture 920s that are not 4G ?? I just assumed they were all 4G.... I guess i was wrong..
Have you try this app and manually set for the LTE? just a suggestion
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2082683&highlight=exclusive+for+nokia
Flash your RM-821 with the Finnish firmware 059Q917 (1308.1) . It will activate the LTE as it did mine.
BlinkThinks said:
Flash your RM-821 with the Finnish firmware 059Q917 (1308.1) . It will activate the LTE as it did mine.
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Just a question, when a new update comes out in the future, what product code shall be used? The firmware's or hardware's?
jtphl said:
Just a question, when a new update comes out in the future, what product code shall be used? The firmware's or hardware's?
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Updates which are firmware, look at the hardware in the phone to confirm product and region compatibility.