Related
Okay, so someone from Samsung is going to be callig me soon. I assume it's related to #NeverAgain.
What would you guys want to know, or tell, samsung?
If I agree (maybe even if I do not) I will ask them.
EDIT - UPDATE:
Okay, I have finished the call. I hit on every topic from this thread/my twitter. I am very limited with what I can say RIGHT NOW though. I do feel that (& hopefully) shortly a lot of good will come from all of this.
I am NOT willing to throw my hands in the air and yell "hooray," but the Olive Branch is absolutely extended and this has the potential to be a huge win for the community, and Samsung.
I do feel this is less a PR move and more that our collective voice was heard. I really hope that is the case anyway. Still a little ways to go.... but I have to applaud them for their efforts so far, even though everything else they've done to this point has been a let down in my eyes.
I hate I solicited your Q's, and am unable to give answers... just wanted to let you guys know what I could say, and that I left the call a bit optimistic, hope that helps some.
Why the lack of support for us vibrant owners? What did we do besides buy millions of your phones?
You will need to be as clear as possible... hard to yell lack of support when froyo and source are available now. Granted it was slow and done terribly.. both the misleading deadlines AND the lack of an OTA.
Gingerbread or at least 2.2.1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
s15274n said:
You will need to be as clear as possible... hard to yell lack of support when froyo and source are available now. Granted it was slow and done terribly.. both the misleading deadlines AND the lack of an OTA.
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Ok. Why the delay on froyo? Also why not an OTA update? Just seemed like the threw us a bone to shut us up with the kies update?
Tell them we need an easy way to get our problems through.. Some type out forum or a public way to brainstorm ideas.. Maybe you can get a job out of this..
Rfs has to go.. It cripples the device.. Ext4 has been proven a better file system.. An aosp build that we choose to flash if wanted.. Maybe through kies.. A metal back we can buy to give our phones that weight we always wanted..
Awesome, plese keep the good ideas going...
How about a definitive answer on the choice of rfs over ext4?
I know we have ext4 on our own, but im just curious as to why they made the decision in the first place.
Anything else? Call is happening shortly.
why don't we have the drivers source? Also will we be getting gingerbread?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
neotoky said:
why don't we have the drivers source? Also will we be getting gingerbread?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Yeah, driver source was on my list, though I think I know the answer.
I'll report back. Keep adding.
neotoky said:
why don't we have the drivers source? Also will we be getting gingerbread?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I think that's the question most people are gonna want an answer to. Something tells me they aren't going to be able to tell you much, but Ill hold out hope.
We at XDA are a completely different type of customer. We like good specs, but we also like to be able to tinker with our phones. Currently, HTC is the most XDA friendly. If Samsung gave us the tools we needed, wed have no reason to switch up phones. We already have some of the best hardware, we just want great software to go with it.
Ask them if they are in a service business and not just a hardware business any more. As soon as they started provided hardware that needs updates, they need to provide those updates to keep their customers happy.
Also ask them if they are planning on inviting the XDA developers to their development tree so that we don't have to get leaked source code but can get it straight from Samsung. Maybe if we sign a waver that we take responsibility for our own actions. To be adults.
Also ask if they are going to allow critical feedback on their website of their devices and not censor them to only accept good feedback?
please tell these Nazis to make an option for the incoming call volume delay. it drives me nuts
OP updated. Sorry but I was asked to not share a lot of what we discussed, and I will listen to that demand.
I will say I feel like this is a potentially great thing. Here is hoping that all parties can find a mutual ground and we will all benefit.
s15274n said:
OP updated. Sorry but I was asked to not share a lot of what we discussed, and I will listen to that demand.
I will say I feel like this is a potentially great thing. Here is hoping that all parties can find a mutual ground and we will all benefit.
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I understand that you can't reveal anything, but Id say if the guy that spearheaded the NeverAgain campaign is satisfied with the conversation, things should be much brighter in the future.
I see that SGS variants are the first Android devices that brought Samsung a major success in smartphone battles, and obviously they were not ready to deal with all sorts of demands. I am happy to see them reaching out to their customers and to see a work in progress.
thegreatcity said:
... if the guy that spearheaded the NeverAgain campaign is satisfied with the conversation, things should be much brighter in the future.
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I'm cautiously optimistic. This could easily dissolve into nothing, or it could be a genuine game changer. The ball is in Samsung's court, but others will have a large impact on the outcome too (no names).
s15274n said:
OP updated. Sorry but I was asked to not share a lot of what we discussed, and I will listen to that demand.
I will say I feel like this is a potentially great thing. Here is hoping that all parties can find a mutual ground and we will all benefit.
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Click to collapse
Ok since they have chosen you to discuss....... That is nice of them,
BUT, WHEN is this going to happen? This is the third or forth iteration of "Dangling the carrot" telling us something wonderful is coming........
Did you ask about the time line ?
No Offense to Anyone in particular but I've been seeing Alot of threads Knocking Developers Roms... Now in My Opinion the Only way Anyone has the Right to say Anything is... If you can Cook your Own Rom up! Until then, Give them a Break guys there doing it for Free for Everyone to use!!!
good point. Many think rom development is like washing a car..little bit of this little bit of that..dry off. First build the damn car, test to make sure it runs...then wash it..and poeple still tell you the car is dirty!!! sheesh...
I have never personally knocked someone's work, but one problem I see are ROM "chefs". Not only do they know nothing about Android's framework, but don't know any programming language enough to write their own code. They are taking bits and pieces of other peoples work and pasting in, and calling it theirs', and calling it new. Hence the term chef. That really doesn't add anything to the community, it is also unethical in my opinion.
Testified.
PMGRANDS said:
No Offense to Anyone in particular but I've been seeing Alot of threads Knocking Developers Roms... Now in My Opinion the Only way Anyone has the Right to say Anything is... If you can Cook your Own Rom up! Until then, Give them a Break guys there doing it for Free for Everyone to use!!!
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Click to collapse
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Sad Panda said:
I have never personally knocked someone's work, but one problem I see are ROM "chefs". Not only do they know nothing about Android's framework, but don't know any programming language enough to write their own code. They are taking bits and pieces of other peoples work and pasting in, and calling it theirs', and calling it new. Hence the term chef. That really doesn't add anything to the community, it is also unethical in my opinion.
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This. Most of the XDA twelve year olds don't know that. The OP of their favorite colored ROM is a god like "developer" to them, when in reality they are just wizards at cut, copy, paste, zip, unzip, ASCII images, ****ty changelogs, etc...
I said most though, not all. And I agree, they all put hard work into it, so appreciate it or just stay quiet and move on.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Agreed
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Couldn't agree more.
Sent from my infected Eternity EVO 3D using xda premium
Sad Panda said:
I have never personally knocked someone's work, but one problem I see are ROM "chefs". Not only do they know nothing about Android's framework, but don't know any programming language enough to write their own code. They are taking bits and pieces of other peoples work and pasting in, and calling it theirs', and calling it new. Hence the term chef. That really doesn't add anything to the community, it is also unethical in my opinion.
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Click to collapse
I gotta agree with this. There's very little "development" happening, and a lot of "cooking" happening. We need to have two separate sections. One for actual home grown roms, and one for things made in a kitchen.
I don't eat copypasta
I'm okay with some of the cooks as they add another element to let users find more combinations of roms bc not all the ones hard dev'd have everything you want or sometimes you would like to add a certain customization from another rom.
Now as long as proper credit is given in the OP all is good. Android is open source and sharing moss is what its all about. I personally don't think you should even ask to use polar mode long as u give the proper credit to them to begin with.
The issue I have is when people cook a ROM and then give zero credit to anyone claiming they did everything.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
PMGRANDS said:
No Offense to Anyone in particular but I've been seeing Alot of threads Knocking Developers Roms... Now in My Opinion the Only way Anyone has the Right to say Anything is... If you can Cook your Own Rom up! Until then, Give them a Break guys there doing it for Free for Everyone to use!!!
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Click to collapse
Well its hard to say good rom to someone if their rom is buggy. We have to post feedback and let them know if there's any bugs. Not to be harsh and say your rom sucks but to say this, this and this doesn't work.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
gmfeny said:
Well its hard to say good rom to someone if their rom is buggy. We have to post feedback and let them know if there's any bugs. Not to be harsh and say your rom sucks but to say this, this and this doesn't work.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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agree. this is another reason why chefs are kinda annoying. they can't really provide support on a rom because they didnt make it. and with all those things pasted in it's harder to find whats making the problem.
ummm... i haven't seen one thread on here created to specifically slam or complain about a rom.
BUT that being said, i still have seen a lot of complaining about other crap... it gets old. there is no purpose in starting a thread simply to complain. it contributes nothing to anybody else.
crpercodani said:
I don't eat copypasta
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Hahaha
sgt. slaughter said:
I'm okay with some of the cooks as they add another element to let users find more combinations of roms bc not all the ones hard dev'd have everything you want or sometimes you would like to add a certain customization from another rom.
Now as long as proper credit is given in the OP all is good. Android is open source and sharing moss is what its all about. I personally don't think you should even ask to use polar mode long as u give the proper credit to them to begin with.
The issue I have is when people cook a ROM and then give zero credit to anyone claiming they did everything.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I agree. Open source is fantastic, and frankly as I see it nearly everything should be open source. But like you said just because we develop something and open the source to be read, used, improved, etc does not mean it is at all ok to call it yours, or take my license agreement, or source citing out so you can be the cool developer who took features from 5 roms to give people what they want. That is no different than stealing my patio furniture that is left out and I let other people sit in, ****ing bastards!
The thing with open source, if I can use an analogy to describe my thoughts and personal feelings:
Scientists will study and develop experiments that help prove something or develop a new technological process, or invent something new will keep things to themselves during the initial startup but soon after the entire community knows what they are working on, their journals are made public, their papers are published to be critiqued, reviewed, improved upon. Sources are always made to stay, and credit is given and kept through every part, and every future discovery. If we didn't have this technological advances would be slow as balls.
efan3719 said:
agree. this is another reason why chefs are kinda annoying. they can't really provide support on a rom because they didnt make it. and with all those things pasted in it's harder to find whats making the problem.
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Another perfect point. How do you support and fix bugs if it isn't yours and have no idea what you are doing?
cobraboy85 said:
ummm... i haven't seen one thread on here created to specifically slam or complain about a rom.
BUT that being said, i still have seen a lot of complaining about other crap... it gets old. there is no purpose in starting a thread simply to complain. it contributes nothing to anybody else.
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Click to collapse
Thats what I Meant...
Not that people actually start a Thread to Bash a ROM, but they Might as Well after Reading there Posts! Lol...
crpercodani said:
I don't eat copypasta
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Avatar makes the post...
PMGRANDS said:
No Offense to Anyone in particular but I've been seeing Alot of threads Knocking Developers Roms... Now in My Opinion the Only way Anyone has the Right to say Anything is... If you can Cook your Own Rom up! Until then, Give them a Break guys there doing it for Free for Everyone to use!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't kid yourself. All it takes is roughly 20 minutes to set up and build your first ROM. It requires no skill, no college degree, and no unearthly talent. Virtually anyone could do it.
While it does take a bit more knowledge to port things over, the end result is always lackluster and very much lacks in the "I_need_a_working_stable_phone_where_all_things_included_with_it_actually_work_as_described" category. There's nothing more annoying than needing your phone at a particular time only to discover that one of a few things are happening:
-your phone has managed to lock up
-your phone is in the middle of a random reboot
-your phone has a missing feature that doesn't work because of the ROM you're using
I suppose all the ridiculous disclaimers (who's seriously going to go after a person for not having one?) try and warn you, but the cute taglines trump the disclaimer anyway.
There are few development projects going on. However, there are plenty of "let me try and frankenROM a bunch of crap together, throw it into a cute thread with a tagline indicating that it's a work in progress and that there are nightlies."
Judging by the number of replies these threads get, you can deduct the following:
-the average person on XDA doesn't have a smartphone for it to work properly.
-the average person on XDA enjoys interacting with other people on a thread even though it's mainly a bunch of back and forth replies that are limited to such wording as "yeah, ___ is broken for me too", " _insert_app_here doesn't work properly and fcs a lot"
I don't know about you, but I'm not the average XDA person and I most definitely enjoy having a working phone, so with that said--Stock ROM with modifications is all that's required to satisfy me.
To be honest, there isn't anything exciting going on aside from chad's kernel development.
This is not directed at any one person, and the true developers know that this isn't about them. Quite frankly, we need this type of work going on because it pushes the envelope and tells companies like HTC that we won't settle for less and know damn well that it's possible to push our phones further than they would have us think. Which is why sometimes, HTC gets caught with their pants down and are forced to give in. EVO 4G fps fix anyone? So I do appreciate all types of work that goes on here at XDA. But there will always be a small percentage that are in it for the internet fame (and they seem to get it quite frequently) and really bring nothing to the table except a bringing together of various other people's works.
freeza said:
Don't kid yourself. All it takes is roughly 20 minutes to set up and build your first ROM. It requires no skill, no college degree, and no unearthly talent. Virtually anyone could do it.
While it does take a bit more knowledge to port things over, the end result is always lackluster and very much lacks in the "I_need_a_working_stable_phone_where_all_things_included_with_it_actually_work_as_described" category. There's nothing more annoying than needing your phone at a particular time only to discover that one of a few things are happening:
-your phone has managed to lock up
-your phone is in the middle of a random reboot
-your phone has a missing feature that doesn't work because of the ROM you're using
I suppose all the ridiculous disclaimers (who's seriously going to go after a person for not having one?) try and warn you, but the cute taglines trump the disclaimer anyway.
There are few development projects going on. However, there are plenty of "let me try and frankenROM a bunch of crap together, throw it into a cute thread with a tagline indicating that it's a work in progress and that there are nightlies."
Judging by the number of replies these threads get, you can deduct the following:
-the average person on XDA doesn't have a smartphone for it to work properly.
-the average person on XDA enjoys interacting with other people on a thread even though it's mainly a bunch of back and forth replies that are limited to such wording as "yeah, ___ is broken for me too", " _insert_app_here doesn't work properly and fcs a lot"
I don't know about you, but I'm not the average XDA person and I most definitely enjoy having a working phone, so with that said--Stock ROM with modifications is all that's required to satisfy me.
To be honest, there isn't anything exciting going on aside from chad's kernel development.
This is not directed at any one person, and the true developers know that this isn't about them. Quite frankly, we need this type of work going on because it pushes the envelope and tells companies like HTC that we won't settle for less and know damn well that it's possible to push our phones further than they would have us think. Which is why sometimes, HTC gets caught with their pants down and are forced to give in. EVO 4G fps fix anyone? So I do appreciate all types of work that goes on here at XDA. But there will always be a small percentage that are in it for the internet fame (and they seem to get it quite frequently) and really bring nothing to the table except a bringing together of various other people's works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Testify!!!!!
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
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Click to collapse
It's your device and what you like that should be important.
Choosing a side is tough.
--------------------------
"Neither have they hearts to stay, nor wit enough to run away."
Butler, Samuel on indecision
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
mcord11758 said:
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
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Click to collapse
if i could high five you i would
newalker91 said:
First off, you need to do some damn research as to why Honeycomb is great for tablets. Gingerbread was built for phones, Honeycomb was built for tablets. It makes the most out of your screen space so you can multitask and use larger format interfaces.
Second... WOW.
Congratulations on being the most ignorant petulant child of a poster to ever step into XDA. These developers do what they do out of their own personal interest and creativity. They have NO responsibility to support, update or even RELEASE material to this website. If people like you pulled their head out of their ass long enough to thoroughly read the entire set of instructions and also had a high enough level of reading comprehension to understand said instructions, they wouldn't be getting bombarded with the stupidest PM's for **** like "hai ur rom borke my tablet, i dint wipe data cuz i wunted to save my angry berds game". Calling the developers whiny for not wanting to deal with that? Good lord you're dumb. YOU need to get a reality check before you get banned. I sincerely hope you hard brick your tablet in the near future and no dev responds to your cry for help.
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As a dev that gets bombarded by stupid questions daily, I want to hug you now.
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
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Click to collapse
This is the one and only post I will make on this topic.
I never asked people not to ask for help, I told them to do it in the forums where others could learn from the answers. I make no apologies whatsoever for that position.
Continuously dealing with PMs makes it impossible to deal with the underlying issue for the benefit of the whole community. It's pretty selfish to consider oneself entitled to individual support to the detriment of everyone else. In as far as is possible I have tried to answer every single question asked in every thread I have posted, I'm sure there have been a few missed but the number is small. When people have done that and are still stuck I have provided additional support via teamviewer.
In addition to the honeycomb upgrade released at that time for the Flyer I was working on the S-OFF upgrade for the Evo view, a device which I don't even own and for which I had to start form scratch by first patching the honeycomb hboot. This is a device who's users are pretty much all located in a timezone which meant working through the night for me to support them.
I gave up the vast majority of my Christmas/New Year vacation to these two things and then providing support for them. Yes, there is a responsibility on developers to support their work however that responsibility is primarily to the community, not to any one individual. I have more than discharged any developer responsibilities for work I have provided, had I answered all the PMs I received in that time neither of these two items would yet be resolved.
Is ICS not being developed for this tablet? Honeycomb is old news already.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Keep the flames coming . I'm entitled to my opinion in a public forum. Yes, there are some ignorant requests from people, but there is a polite way of handling things? Moderator's can't ban because they don't agree with somebody's post. Have been involved with XDA since 2008. There are hundreds of forums on a multitude of handsets with millions of posts. All the hard work and long hours are greatly appreciated. This doesn't mean I'm going to sheepishly sit on the sidelines and kiss ass and NOT VOICE AN OPINION. This is a tablet. This is the flyer forum. There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
The cons outweigh any benefit to move to honeycomb at the moment IMO.
BTW, this isn't the Soviet Union.
BTW: Here's the thread you were looking for in the first place http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1358758
Big_O said:
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
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There really wouldn't be much of an issue if what you said was respectful. But there was absolutely nothing respectful about what you said:
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
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Click to collapse
This just about sums it up … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
Thank you. Your time and contributions are greatly appreciated. My apologies.
I will have to save that YouTube URL as it can be used in many threads here on XDA of late. I got a good chuckle from it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Well you know some people just should just not be allowed to own guns or high tech equipment. But even for those people that have marginal grasp of proper operation of such devices, it would still be OK as long as they only hurt themselves and not those that try to help them. This thread was obviously started by someone that doesn't know how to keep from hurting others and it belongs on the dumpster.
Pretty sad that the OP feels justified to come on here and "speak his opinion" by insulting globatron and call him a whiner. I've been on XDA through 3 different devices over 4 years, and I honestly think he is the most helpful and generous with his time I have seen of any developer or user on all of XDA. He answers just about every question asked of him, and then some. Many developers don't even come close to taking the time to do that. And they shouldn't have to, anyway. Whoever said that just because you are a developer, you have to become everyone's personal unpaid tech support person?
As globatron already indicated, he didn't say he wouldn't help anyone. He just posted some steps to try if you have issues, before bombarding him with PMs. He will still help, and I have seen him help numerous people by opening up a team viewersession, and getting it done through all hours of the night. Is there any forum in the entire internet where a total stranger will give you such help? Not just for smartphones/tablets, but for ANYTHING?
I also don't see the point in coming on here and pigeon-holing your critics as being high-schoolers, and bragging about how you are so rich that you don't care of you brick your Flyer.
No clear cut procedure to update to HC? About 5or 10 minutes of browsing and reading and you would have found that globatron's guide is the way to go. And he was kind enough to spoon feed you the link. All you have to do is download the file and run the .exe. How much easier could it be?
I haven't experienced any system or browser crashes on HC. I'm also puzzled about some people's comments on sluggishness. HC is very snappy for me. Everything seems as responsive as GB. Which is impressive, considering HC is heavier on eye candy and animations. As far as game/app compatibility, it depends on what apps you use. I haven't experienced any compatibility issues. All the core non-game apps I use run exactly as they do on GB. I don't play a huge number of games, but the ones I do play work fine. I know there are some games out there that have issues (Gameloft in particular?). But if the ones you use are compatible, it doesn't matter.
HC is a completely different OS experience from GB, designed for tablet screens rather then a small phone screen. The launcher and menus are all laid out taking advantage of the increased screen real estate. Not sure if its important to you, but the pen integration is hugely increased, and works on many apps, not just Notes and PDFs.
GB was a perfectly functional OS. But it was really just an incremental update of Froyo. HC feels much more refined. While using the Flyer with GB made it feel like just a really big smartphone, HC actually makes it feel like something a step above that. If you don't like the update, its not that hard to roll it back to GB.
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
deaglecat said:
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
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Click to collapse
I believe leedroids hc Rom has hardware key functionality but I havent tried it. And on behalf of us overly enthusiastic end users who frequent these forums, big thanks to globatron and all the other devs for giving us all that they do.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Big_O said:
Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up.
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Big_O said:
There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
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To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
Scabes24 said:
To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
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I think the OP's opinion on the pros and cons of HC is respected by all. It was his labelling of globatron as a whiner that is totally unacceptable especially since he got most of his facts about the issue wrong.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
I realize this post may not make me popular, but this community isn't about popularity so much as it is about working together as a community, for the community.
I had a post ready on my phone, but for some reason the xda or tapatalk app sometimes puts my phone in a boot loop.. anyways:
As best as I can tell, we have one solid developer(no offense to anyone else if they are deving) who is working with source. One person working on ICS, and putting out roms for our pleasure. Xboarder, it is awesome that you are able and willing to put the time and work into this phone like you have, and I thank you.
I am curious about one thing though: Is xboarder opposed to working with others?
This is in no way to stir up trouble, but I have seen multiple posts of problems between revolution(and maybe others?) and xboarder. I would have posted this in that thread, but it is locked I am assuming because of those problems. This thread is not about blame, it is to point out that who is at fault doesn't matter. If another developer was considering this device they aren't going to try to see who is at fault, they will assume that neither party works well with others.
It is admirable that someone so young(xboarder) is able to step up and do what many people older than him cannot, developing and working on projects like he has.. but is seems like people handle him with kid gloves(pun NOT intended), perhaps out of fear they will lose the only developer currently working with our device, but this is an opportunity for xboarder or anyone else to develop professionally. It is one thing to be able to do something by yourself, from the ground up, but our ability to work with others while utilizing the skills we would have by ourselves is something extremely desired in the professional world, or is valuable in life itself.
XDA is a community, each of us contributing our experiences and what we have learned with each other, that is what creates progress. Some contribute financially, some trouble shoot, some test, some develop, but consciously or not we are all working together to some degree. This is the ideal.
Most devices that have a working ICS build have more than one person, sometimes teams of people, working on the project together. They check each other's work, offer knowledge, divide the workload.. many could work individually, but in almost all cases the final product is better by working collaboratively.
An adult trait that many adults don't have, is the ability to turn the other cheek. Or to reach out to others for help. To overlook offenses. Don't deny xboarder the chance to step up professionally. Give him the opportunity to learn how to pick and choose his battles, to share glory, to learn and teach others by letting him do it on his own.
Xboarder, please don't take anything I've said offensively, but if you can, consider it objectively. You probably haven't had the chance to work with others on a large group project, to collaborate. Maybe revolution(I don't know if he is a dev or who is at fault, etc) or others have been an ass, but don't let that stop you from working with them or others to put together a better product. To free up your resources to do something for yourself, or your own side projects..
I hope no one will flame, blame, or otherwise take this thread as a chance to cause chaos or get upset. I have worked with others collaboratively, people I do like and people I don't, and it is an important thing when you are dealing with projects of this magnitude. That is why you don't see many working ICS builds being created alone, or at the least, you see people building upon other people's work.. because that is what open source is all about. I have worked as a consultant for businesses, trying to figure out what happens in the infrastructure that may be keeping it from a higher level of success.. and that is what I am offering here, a possible insight into what could help this entire community make more progress, helping each person who makes their own contributions however they can. Damn this post got long, I can only hope that it might lead to something productive.
Let me just start by saying that X is one of the very few developers that actually owns the device. And in an even rarer case, he owns one with S-Off. This in itself means that he's able to develop for the Amaze a lot easier than other developers.
I don't think he has a problem working with others, it's just that the pickings are slim. It's hard to find people to work with if you're the only one with the device that has S-Off. Also, the lack of S-Off on the majority of the devices only turns developers away from the Amaze, which is a real shame and a failure on HTC's part
From what I see around the forums, X doesn't seem like he has a problem working with others, in fact, all evidence goes to support that he encourages other developers to pick up on the Amaze development (bounty threads, etc). X is already doing a fantastic job and I know his work will only be even better as more developers join the Amaze community, we just have to be patient.
i work with others that know there info etc preludedrew nrgz but revoultion is just trying be like a want a be person you know. People that dont know anything and just try to act like they do. I hate that kind of person and i have posted before about asking for etas and you might not all know but i had rev on gtalk for a while till he started trash talking me and keep asking for etas like every otherday. I think you would get tierd of that too so then i deleted him. It takes to much time to teacher a person all that i know im still learning as i go and talk to other devs such as faux123, nrgz, preludedrew, etc. I like working with people that are better then me so i learn i all ready have a private team im working with on ics and it will be posted else where and no more betas becuase of people like rev asking and asking. and has stolen mine and others work in the past.
I think you guys have heard this sang, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I have given rev a bunch of chances to learn and show him how to develop the right way. and it always ends in a bad way.
also most other phones have aosp something to work of libs kernels etc. Im doing this all from the ground up no cm help no nada. We have to make all the stuff on our own aosp kernel etc. not easy todo
I might just take a break all this drama stuff is like high school and post my stuff else where or keep it until its ready
adslee said:
Let me just start by saying that X is one of the very few developers that actually owns the device. And in an even rarer case, he owns one with S-Off. This in itself means that he's able to develop for the Amaze a lot easier than other developers.
I don't think he has a problem working with others, it's just that the pickings are slim. It's hard to find people to work with if you're the only one with the device that has S-Off. Also, the lack of S-Off on the majority of the devices only turns developers away from the Amaze, which is a real shame and a failure on HTC's part
From what I see around the forums, X doesn't seem like he has a problem working with others, in fact, all evidence goes to support that he encourages other developers to pick up on the Amaze development (bounty threads, etc). X is already doing a fantastic job and I know his work will only be even better as more developers join the Amaze community, we just have to be patient.
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Well, I am new to the device, I've only had mine for a few weeks though I have been following the forums for nearly 2 months.. even with the workarounds that the members of the community bear the burden of, s-off still keeps developers away that much? Many devs I have talked to develop or contribute to devices they don't have.. as long as at least one developer has the device, or they have adequate testers, they seem happy to contribute to the code(I am talking about compiling/building like xboarder is doing with ICS).
I don't want to sound like this post was because I am impatient, but when I read the ICS thread earlier I was bothered by how immediate things escalated, and that the thread got closed over something that seems so petty.
I've worked with a lot of these devices, I've read quite a few forums, and even some of the crappier devices seem to have several teams of devs, and I am failing to see why a device as beefy and awesome as this one hasn't attracted at least a few more.
I saw a bounty thread earlier, and the very fact that people are willing to contribute is one of the factors that made me wonder at the lack of devs here.. I bought this phone because it is simply the best device out there, and I would like to do whatever I can to facilitate the growth and development of our part of the forums. Not having s-off may be a turn off to developing as much as you say it is, but I know several devs that could contribute to the code of any device without ever having it in their hand..
Perhaps the problem is that the members are publicizing enough the need that is here, the contributions of the members in this area would be more than enough to support a much larger number of devs, and that alone I would think would draw some out..
xboarder56 said:
i work with others that know there info etc preludedrew nrgz but revoultion is just trying be like a want a be person you know. People that dont know anything and just try to act like they do. I hate that kind of person and i have posted before about asking for etas and you might not all know but i had rev on gtalk for a while till he started trash talking me and keep asking for etas like every otherday. I think you would get tierd of that too so then i deleted him. It takes to much time to teacher a person all that i know im still learning as i go and talk to other devs such as faux123, nrgz, preludedrew, etc. I like working with people that are better then me so i learn i all ready have a private team im working with on ics and it will be posted else where and no more betas becuase of people like rev asking and asking. and has stolen mine and others work in the past.
I think you guys have heard this sang, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I have given rev a bunch of chances to learn and show him how to develop the right way. and it always ends in a bad way.
also most other phones have aosp something to work of libs kernels etc. Im doing this all from the ground up no cm help no nada. We have to make all the stuff on our own aosp kernel etc. not easy todo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally understand, and I hope you take what I said constructively, not negatively. I'm not one of those people that ask for ETAs, I may not be a developer, but I definitely have a good idea of how much time and effort goes into it.. if I had more time(college is a succubus) I could dedicate to anything, I would be trying to make my own contributions.
Revolution may be a total asshat(and I'm thinking he probably is), but if someone were to stumble across your dealings with him without doing the research, they might come to a conclusion about you that isn't accurate at all.
I guess I would ask you, have you reached out to any developers that currently aren't contributing to ask if they are willing to assist? When working with pure code like you are in the ICS build, some could make good contributions without ever having the device in their hands..
I know HTC isn't making this easy, nor are some of the people in the community who show their lack of patience.. but the basis of me starting this thread was because I understand the value of working collaboratively, and I know it isn't always easy to organize-- but in a sense that is one of my knacks, I am a professional facilitator. That also may be why I have been going to college the last four years, it isn't the easiest thing to market(without a degree), but it DOES have its uses..
Silentbtdeadly said:
Well, I am new to the device, I've only had mine for a few weeks though I have been following the forums for nearly 2 months.. even with the workarounds that the members of the community bear the burden of, s-off still keeps developers away that much? Many devs I have talked to develop or contribute to devices they don't have.. as long as at least one developer has the device, or they have adequate testers, they seem happy to contribute to the code(I am talking about compiling/building like xboarder is doing with ICS).
I don't want to sound like this post was because I am impatient, but when I read the ICS thread earlier I was bothered by how immediate things escalated, and that the thread got closed over something that seems so petty.
I've worked with a lot of these devices, I've read quite a few forums, and even some of the crappier devices seem to have several teams of devs, and I am failing to see why a device as beefy and awesome as this one hasn't attracted at least a few more.
I saw a bounty thread earlier, and the very fact that people are willing to contribute is one of the factors that made me wonder at the lack of devs here.. I bought this phone because it is simply the best device out there, and I would like to do whatever I can to facilitate the growth and development of our part of the forums. Not having s-off may be a turn off to developing as much as you say it is, but I know several devs that could contribute to the code of any device without ever having it in their hand..
Perhaps the problem is that the members are publicizing enough the need that is here, the contributions of the members in this area would be more than enough to support a much larger number of devs, and that alone I would think would draw some out..
I totally understand, and I hope you take what I said constructively, not negatively. I'm not one of those people that ask for ETAs, I may not be a developer, but I definitely have a good idea of how much time and effort goes into it.. if I had more time(college is a succubus) I could dedicate to anything, I would be trying to make my own contributions.
Revolution may be a total asshat(and I'm thinking he probably is), but if someone were to stumble across your dealings with him without doing the research, they might come to a conclusion about you that isn't accurate at all.
I guess I would ask you, have you reached out to any developers that currently aren't contributing to ask if they are willing to assist? When working with pure code like you are in the ICS build, some could make good contributions without ever having the device in their hands..
I know HTC isn't making this easy, nor are some of the people in the community who show their lack of patience.. but the basis of me starting this thread was because I understand the value of working collaboratively, and I know it isn't always easy to organize-- but in a sense that is one of my knacks, I am a professional facilitator. That also may be why I have been going to college the last four years, it isn't the easiest thing to market(without a degree), but it DOES have its uses..
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Click to collapse
nope i got a group all ready working with privatly on this
I don't know much about what's going on behind the (Devs) scene - things between Xboarder56 and CM team, between Xboarder56 and Revolution but based on the facts that I've seen, Xboarder56 did a wonderful job. All the noob tools, Roms - especially his supports. He updates his Rom immediately after someone found a bug, heck, he was so fast at supporting and updating that I am - as an end user, seems to be tired to trying to keep up with his releases.
Based on what I've read in the forum, Revolution is an a**hole - period! And if I were a Mod he would be forever banned due to the fact of kept asking ETA alone - not to mention the bad intention to provoked Xboarder56.
There is a mutual benefits between Dev and end users. If you are a good Dev with a lot of followers, you will become popular and that will helps with your career (i.e Steve Kondik and Samsung). Devs built Rom not just for fun, they also built up their porfolio/resume if they wanted a good job in hi-tech field and a good reputation when putting their app on the Market.
On a personal point of view, I don't care if there is only one Dev in the Amaze forum because without many of them I still be able to get ICS when it's due from Tmobile. Flashing custom Rom is more like a hobby to many of us here and if I don't have their support I still be fine with my phone - using Stock
Another thing needs to be point out and one may not agreed with me but a Stock Rom is always better than any custom Rom. I means looks at Motorola's announcement just a few days ago when they are looking for testers for their soon to be update software, they are looking for one thousand tester and when a Mfg. released their final product, they usually testing it for months before.
As with us? Every time when we flashed a new Rom we tend to check on some basic function as wifi, tethering, bluetooth, gps and stuff like that and we were testing it for a few minutes - until it crashed or bootloop a day later. We rarely have a chance a test the Rom while doing multi-task with hundreds of apps on different environtments, i.g using GPS while listening to Music on a trip and taking/receiving phone calls while another party on hold at the other end and at the same time googling for a nearby restaurant, ect ... How many of us doing such intensive test on our beloved new Rom for a long period of time? I'm doubtful.
To top it off. More Devs? Great! I appreciates their effort and I am thankful. I will consider a donation if I think the Dev is devoting to his work and fully support his followers and deserved his rewards. If there is none? I either continuing using my phone with Stock and after a few months, Ebaying it or throw it on my local Craigslist and buy another phone - happily ever after! If there is a single Dev out there thinking that us users would have no where to go to without their work. They are wrong!
Mutual beneficial is the name of this game. Without users and testers - Dev is nothing but a desperate wannabe tech-guy looking for a job without a good looking porfolio/resume. No chance to practice and/or testing your product. Without Devs, users would have no fun and his phone purchasing cycle will be shorter hence carriers and Mfg. can sell more phones! That's about it!
Enough ranting and my appologies for those who hates long post.
Followed amaze forums since xboarder was first rooting it.
Wonderful job.
Keep up the development.it will make you grow as a person.
Just cut off the negative people.
Binary seems to actually moderate these threads,which I don't see much of on xda.
Xboarder...I chose the amaze because you are here.
That revolution character is laughable.I have a few devices,and he's popped up in a few,and basically been shunned.its his fault(for getting shunned).
But remember,like in football...
The ref calls the foul on the Guy who responds,not the one who commits the foul in the first place.
You're good at what you do.
Keep doing it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
sunlaw2 said:
Followed amaze forums since xboarder was first rooting it.
Wonderful job.
Keep up the development.it will make you grow as a person.
Just cut off the negative people.
Binary seems to actually moderate these threads,which I don't see much of on xda.
Xboarder...I chose the amaze because you are here.
That revolution character is laughable.I have a few devices,and he's popped up in a few,and basically been shunned.its his fault(for getting shunned).
But remember,like in football...
The ref calls the foul on the Guy who responds,not the one who commits the foul in the first place.
You're good at what you do.
Keep doing it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Thanks! It's difficult to find balance between the forum and my personal life but I do what I can. Also keep in mind that I moderate more forums here on XDA at the same time as do a lot of forum moderators. So if you don't see them in other forums frequently then use the report post feature and report the thread. Your FSM will be alerted to investigate the reported issue.
sunlaw2 said:
But remember,like in football...
The ref calls the foul on the Guy who responds,not the one who commits the foul in the first place.
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Click to collapse
Umm....shouldn't the ref call the foul on the guy who actually committed the foul in the first place? Just sayin.
Silentbtdeadly said:
I realize this post may not make me popular, but this community isn't about popularity so much as it is about working together as a community, for the community.
I had a post ready on my phone, but for some reason the xda or tapatalk app sometimes puts my phone in a boot loop.. anyways:
As best as I can tell, we have one solid developer(no offense to anyone else if they are deving) who is working with source. One person working on ICS, and putting out roms for our pleasure. Xboarder, it is awesome that you are able and willing to put the time and work into this phone like you have, and I thank you.
I am curious about one thing though: Is xboarder opposed to working with others?
This is in no way to stir up trouble, but I have seen multiple posts of problems between revolution(and maybe others?) and xboarder. I would have posted this in that thread, but it is locked I am assuming because of those problems. This thread is not about blame, it is to point out that who is at fault doesn't matter. If another developer was considering this device they aren't going to try to see who is at fault, they will assume that neither party works well with others.
It is admirable that someone so young(xboarder) is able to step up and do what many people older than him cannot, developing and working on projects like he has.. but is seems like people handle him with kid gloves(pun NOT intended), perhaps out of fear they will lose the only developer currently working with our device, but this is an opportunity for xboarder or anyone else to develop professionally. It is one thing to be able to do something by yourself, from the ground up, but our ability to work with others while utilizing the skills we would have by ourselves is something extremely desired in the professional world, or is valuable in life itself.
XDA is a community, each of us contributing our experiences and what we have learned with each other, that is what creates progress. Some contribute financially, some trouble shoot, some test, some develop, but consciously or not we are all working together to some degree. This is the ideal.
Most devices that have a working ICS build have more than one person, sometimes teams of people, working on the project together. They check each other's work, offer knowledge, divide the workload.. many could work individually, but in almost all cases the final product is better by working collaboratively.
An adult trait that many adults don't have, is the ability to turn the other cheek. Or to reach out to others for help. To overlook offenses. Don't deny xboarder the chance to step up professionally. Give him the opportunity to learn how to pick and choose his battles, to share glory, to learn and teach others by letting him do it on his own.
Xboarder, please don't take anything I've said offensively, but if you can, consider it objectively. You probably haven't had the chance to work with others on a large group project, to collaborate. Maybe revolution(I don't know if he is a dev or who is at fault, etc) or others have been an ass, but don't let that stop you from working with them or others to put together a better product. To free up your resources to do something for yourself, or your own side projects..
I hope no one will flame, blame, or otherwise take this thread as a chance to cause chaos or get upset. I have worked with others collaboratively, people I do like and people I don't, and it is an important thing when you are dealing with projects of this magnitude. That is why you don't see many working ICS builds being created alone, or at the least, you see people building upon other people's work.. because that is what open source is all about. I have worked as a consultant for businesses, trying to figure out what happens in the infrastructure that may be keeping it from a higher level of success.. and that is what I am offering here, a possible insight into what could help this entire community make more progress, helping each person who makes their own contributions however they can. Damn this post got long, I can only hope that it might lead to something productive.
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Click to collapse
I totally see where you are coming from. In reality their are people who will intentionally get under you skin any way they can. Even as an adult it still happens. But if theirs anything that I learned in flight school its that you can run into the wind you have to turn into and face it. The thing you push against lifts you up. Team work is crucial in any thing you do really. That's what being a community is about, working together not being divided. I have seen the things revolution has done and in reality he is one of the ones who won't go far. I mean all of this out of respect, but with a device so scares but great that is a reason we should help on another. If HTC won't help then it looks like its up to us. We need to work together and stop being a pain in the ass toward one another. Like I said I'm not blaming anyone its all out of respect.
To be fair.revolution has 500 something thanks.
But if someone persists in annoying others,soliciting donations for bogus "development",etc...
Just let the moderators handle it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
sunlaw2 said:
To be fair.revolution has 500 something thanks.
But if someone persists in annoying others,soliciting donations for bogus "development",etc...
Just let the moderators handle it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Click to collapse
500thanks out of 1500total posts meaning 67% of the time he talks bullsh$t
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
sunlaw2 said:
To be fair.revolution has 500 something thanks.
But if someone persists in annoying others,soliciting donations for bogus "development",etc...
Just let the moderators handle it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Click to collapse
My thanks to post ratio isn't as high, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Maybe he will have something to offer, probably not.
If binary sees this, feel free to close the post, xboarder clearly said where he is with other devs, so there isn't much more that needs to be said.
Silentbtdeadly said:
My thanks to post ratio isn't as high, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Maybe he will have something to offer, probably not.
If binary sees this, feel free to close the post, xboarder clearly said where he is with other devs, so there isn't much more that needs to be said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thread closed per OP request.
I know the one way to get htc to get back to profit, i said it here first, HTC-if you want to hire me as a futuristic trends consultant, ill take a look at your offer....Ok here it is folks... HTC, you must stop altering bootloaders and concealing source codes, which hamper development. Your bootloader must be made to be rooted and s off easily, without hurting the customer by saying, oh upgrade but your new bootlaoder wont be unlockable, thus alot of people breaking their new phones and bricking them because of this intrusive policy....Time if running out, before we all abandon you,, we are a big community here and can turn your sales around, if you treat us like almost human, say monkeys, yeah a monkey is a big step for you, but we can live with being monkeys if you stop your crap against us... but the goal is to treat us like HUMANS
Sadly, from a business perspective... modders are a small niche of the overall user base that often contribute towards large amounts of financial risk due to warranty claims. We always think we're a great big community who make significant differences in the ecosystem, but we don't. Another perfect example is the turboed manual transmission segment of Subaru. NASIOC and all the other Subaru enthusiast forums will think they make up the majority of the sales, but they really don't. And now, you barely see any turboed manual transmission Subarus outside of the WRX and the STI.
With the One family of phones, you can really tell that HTC is trying hard to create a global competitor to the Galaxy family and the iPhones, which sell to mostly non-modding end users.
i believe we are a big community, and ive been rooting for 3 years since samsung vibrant and the only way to ruin your device is to keep changing roms, kernels, etc.. i only use mean rom and trust his rom at this point, because im a veteran at this and play it safe these days. But if more people were happy, more positive feedback, and the word would get around quick that they care about us... hence, raising sales.. im sure theres a tiny loss from rooting, where someone trys to hide they did the damage and returns it, but that shouldnt stop the gains this would make for them...
Like the OP said, all good thoughts but we, meaning devs, end users who root and tweakers, represent a small, almost insignificant group. From a financial view, we aren't even a fraction of the incoming revenue.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
waterbound said:
Like the OP said, all good thoughts but we, meaning devs, end users who root and tweakers, represent a small, almost insignificant group. From a financial view, we aren't even a fraction of the incoming revenue.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
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Yes, we are small in numbers but we are very large in influence. Everyone I know comes to me before they think of purchasing a device. I'm sure there are many others on xda that are the same way. People know we are the ones that know what the best devices are at all times and which ones to purchase and not to purchase.
HTC need to stop ignoring their best marketing tool and use us to their advantage. If they are ignoring us because they think we are a small group and we don't impact their bottom line they are sorely mistaken.
I have grown rather tired of this same exact discussion, every week or two. Most notably the gripes of locked bootloaders. Htc has provided a way for you to unlock your bootloader, which allows you to flash a custom recovery, custom roms, and custom kernels.
The only limitation that I'm aware of, is updating firmware, which can be worked around by flashing the ruu via a relocked bootloader, then unlock again.
Is s-off more convenient? Yes, but it opens the phone to the ability to flash modified firmware that can brick your phone, that you'll somehow blame someone else for, and expect sprint/HTC to replace it.
With providing the unlocked bootloader (via htcdev), the chances of you actually bricking your device are extremely slim...almost the worst you can do is get caught in a bootloop.
From a business stance, HTC cares about making money. They don't care about your feelings, financial troubles, or how high your benchmarks are. You bought the phone, and that's how they'd like it to end. They don't want to have to replace it (via sprint or asurian) because you can't read and flashed a radio from the evo 4g.
I had to lol when a read that a small group of modders could turn around a company that lost almost a half billion dollars.
You don't say?
In all seriousness we're a very small part of HTC's profit margin the only way we could put a dent in their profit margins is mainstream media, but lets be honest it'd have to be a REALLY slow news day to get any coverage or a REALLY big law suit.
We also are the most enthusiastic android sales people who influence many of the people we know to buy phones because we know more about them than the people who actually sell them. If htc kept devs and the rooted community happy they would definitely see an increase in sales.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my EVO 4g LTE
sianaka said:
We also are the most enthusiastic android sales people who influence many of the people we know to buy phones because we know more about them than the people who actually sell them. If htc kept devs and the rooted community happy they would definitely see an increase in sales.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my EVO 4g LTE
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You've also got to realize the increase in warranty work they'll get with a larger dev community. No it's not going to negate the sales increase but these are all things they take into account when they [HTC] decide what their next move is.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app