What's wrong with android?, anybody can explain to me why even in Galaxy S4 games graphics and pictures quality are inferior compared to an Iphone 5, I know there's patents and all that fight for control when talking about camera but, in games?, I mean, should we wait for a galaxy s56,789 or a HTC Twenty, and continues getting bad qualities?, or the answers are in better libs and better kernels? I'm a free-code guy, android became my word but XDA is a forum of dev, we build every day I surprise myself trying to CTRL-F when I can't find my wallet or my keys, this is how we life we need to find solutions, not just improve those already exist.
Im I wrong? make me wake up
Exactly
Gesendet von meinem GT-I8190 mit Tapatalk 2
juancollado2003 said:
What's wrong with android?, anybody can explain to me why even in Galaxy S4 games graphics and pictures quality are inferior compared to an Iphone 5, I know there's patents and all that fight for control when talking about camera but, in games?, I mean, should we wait for a galaxy s56,789 or a HTC Twenty, and continues getting bad qualities?, or the answers are in better libs and better kernels? I'm a free-code guy, android became my word but XDA is a forum of dev, we build every day I surprise myself trying to CTRL-F when I can't find my wallet or my keys, this is how we life we need to find solutions, not just improve those already exist.
Im I wrong? make me wake up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know what you're talking about. But this is a very ****ty question. I think you've not played the dead trigger or other hd games. Check the ppi of the htc one and the iphone 5. Its quite the double.
Check your eyes man.
juancollado2003 said:
What's wrong with android?, anybody can explain to me why even in Galaxy S4 games graphics and pictures quality are inferior compared to an Iphone 5, I know there's patents and all that fight for control when talking about camera but, in games?, I mean, should we wait for a galaxy s56,789 or a HTC Twenty, and continues getting bad qualities?, or the answers are in better libs and better kernels? I'm a free-code guy, android became my word but XDA is a forum of dev, we build every day I surprise myself trying to CTRL-F when I can't find my wallet or my keys, this is how we life we need to find solutions, not just improve those already exist.
Im I wrong? make me wake up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good: i was thinking about the same thing...just like sony other manufactures should also hire people from xda to make more optimized kernals and libs for their handsets...dont get me wrong but my experience with my dad's galaxy s4 (the octacore one) was horrible.After every reboot it took 2-5 minutes to properly load the applications,it got overheated at certain points when I browsed the web or even opened the phone application,lagged from time to time when scrolling through the homescreens and the wifi sometimes didnt turn on and when it did there were constant wifi drops
sonulohani said:
I dont know what you're talking about. But this is a very ****ty question. I think you've not played the dead trigger or other hd games. Check the ppi of the htc one and the iphone 5. Its quite the double.
Check your eyes man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't misunderstand me, my daily phone is a Galaxy S3 and I play many games, android has very good games with very good graphics but when you open the same game on a GS3 and on an Iphone 5 and compare it you see the difference, Modern Combat 4 for ex.
dead trigger has good graphics, have you read the comments in the play store? there's people who says the game is better on ipad, has better graph and better effects, it looks is not just my eyes
juancollado2003 said:
Please don't misunderstand me, my daily phone is a Galaxy S3 and I play many games, android has very good games with very good graphics but when you open the same game on a GS3 and on an Iphone 5 and compare it you see the difference, Modern Combat 4 for ex.
dead trigger has good graphics, have you read the comments in the play store? there's people who says the game is better on ipad, has better graph and better effects, it looks is not just my eyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is fine, but if you compare the prices of the android phones and iphone and the customizable options in the android that makes it far different.
I think that goggle should rewrite the whole OS in c++ rather than in java as c++ is more optimized, less memory consuming than java.
sonulohani said:
That is fine, but if you compare the prices of the android phones and iphone and the customizable options in the android that makes it far different.
I think that goggle should rewrite the whole OS in c++ rather than in java as c++ is more optimized, less memory consuming than java.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is actually written in C/C++. Only the apps are written in Java, but you can write them in C++, too.
nikwen said:
The OS is actually written in C/C++. Only the apps are written in Java, but you can write them in C++, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have written the core part in c,c++, but i need the front end part also in c++. Android shouldn't use DVM as it consumes more. Yup i knew that DVM is the optimized form of JVM but still its a memory consuming thing, you cant ignore that.
sonulohani said:
They have written the core part in c,c++, but i need the front end part also in c++. Android shouldn't use DVM as it consumes more. Yup i knew that DVM is the optimized form of JVM but still its a memory consuming thing, you cant ignore that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You CAN develop for Android using C/C++. Check the Android NDK (by Google). Much faster.
nikwen said:
You CAN develop for Android using C/C++. Check the Android NDK (by Google). Much faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it is too hard to develop using ndk. Even google in their website said to better use SDK rather than ndk.
sonulohani said:
But it is too hard to develop using ndk. Even google in their website said to better use SDK rather than ndk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that is right. It is the reason why I use the SDK. :laugh:
There is also a way to use C#: [GUIDE]C# for Android----for Starters----UPDATED
You find many tutorials and links to helpful resources here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2198
nikwen said:
Yeah, that is right. It is the reason why I use the SDK. :laugh:
There is also a way to use C#: [GUIDE]C# for Android----for Starters----UPDATED
You find many tutorials and links to helpful resources here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2198
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But whats new would i get by using C#? Is there any performance enhancement?
sonulohani said:
But whats new would i find by using C#? Is there any performance enhancement?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good question.
@ScatteredHell: Do you know if there is any performance enhancement?
nikwen said:
Good question.
@ScatteredHell: Do you know if there is any performance enhancement?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not still messed with XAMARIN android with my fullest. You can use the features that have used in .Net Framework. You can even use the latest .Net 4.5. There are many advantages. Below copied from another site,
Of the two Mono-related releases, Mono for Android is the newest addition to the Mono product family. It is also the one that, at least for me, is a harder sell. First, unlike Objective-C, Java -- the language of Android app development -- is relatively easy for C# developers to learn, because it is closely related to C# in syntax and sandboxing benefits. Thus, in Mono for Android's case, the advantage of providing a .NET-friendly development environment is somewhat less compelling than it is with MonoTouch. Second, Android is already cross-platform and can be developed on a Windows, Mac, or even Linux computer, and the development environment is free. Third, the advantage of sharing code between Mono for Android and MonoTouch applications is greatly diluted because the UI definitions, proprietary SDK function calls, and even resource assets are mostly specific to each target platform. Finally, the bulky Mono runtime that has to be either compiled into the application's resource bundle or installed as a separate runtime adds considerable overhead and start-up time, especially for small applications.
That said, I have to commend Xamarin for the company's remarkable Android efforts, particularly since Xamarin's is the only third-party Android development environment I've seen that produces truly native look-and-feel apps. Other development environments either use their own proprietary UI elements or, as PhoneGap or Rhomobile do, use HTML form elements within a WebKit browser-hosted container. As such, C# developers who don't have the time to learn Java and the variety of Java libraries for programming XML parsing, network I/O, and so on will find Mono for Android to be the only game in town.
Mono for Android applications can be created with the same MonoDevelop IDE used for MonoTouch development. But the more likely scenario for .NET developers will be to use Mono for Android's Visual Studio plug-in, shown in Figure 2.
Figure 2: Using Mono for Android's Visual Studio plug-in
Not only does the Visual Studio plug-in allow seasoned C# developers to use one of the best IDEs on the planet, by using the plug-in developers can also leverage any commercial add-ons and features already designed for Visual Studio (e.g., DevExpress's CodeRush, JetBrains' ReSharper). Mono for Android's installer will auto-detect the presence of Visual Studio and configure it accordingly. The installer will also automatically download and install the necessary Android SDK components (including the Java runtime, the Android SDK, MonoDevelop, and the various Mono dependencies) and set them up for you.
As I mentioned earlier, code reuse between Mono for Android and MonoTouch is a possibility, but only for those who have invested the up-front time and effort in engineering the application to abstract UIs and platform SDK-specific calls. Otherwise, attempting to reuse code between the two platforms will likely prove futile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ScatteredHell said:
I did not still messed with XAMARIN android with my fullest. You can use the features that have used in .Net Framework. You can even use the latest .Net 4.5. There are many advantages. Below copied from another site,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I can see why you like Mono for Android. However, are there any performance enhancements?
nikwen said:
Yeah, I can see why you like Mono for Android. However, are there any performance enhancements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only give you a simple answer, yes. It has
ScatteredHell said:
I can only give you a simple answer, yes. It has
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. :good:
Related
I couldn't help but realize that Android could never get something as detailed as Infinity Blade, but is there hope? And what handset could handle such graphics?
Here is the trailer/article of Infinity Blade:
http://www.redmondpie.com/epic-game...for-iphone-4-is-mind-blowingly-awesome-video/
Well the Samsung Galaxy S has a more powerful GPU than the iPhone 4 (SGX540 vs iPhone's SGX535). So theoretically better games can be made for Android.
But with Android being so widespread the high end games won't run on all Android phones. For example, my old HTC Hero doens't have OpenGL 2.0 support and sucks at all types of gaming.
xoltrix2000 said:
And what handset could handle such graphics?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SGS, ofc.
Sent via XDA app on my Samsung Vibrant
•ROM:StockJI6»Rooted&Deodexed
•Kernel:ttabbal's»z4mod(ext4)+bklght
•Mods:MobileAp/MultiLock/AccBat
The main problem isnt the hardware, android has the hardware to support most iOS games (excluding the first few models) but we're lacking the developer support. One day they might realise and then start android development, and then we'd have the definitively winning devices
Well both ID with their RAGE mobile engine have said they are using it for android development and EPIC has shown their unreal engine running on android...both on tablet and phone...its a matter of time now
the short answer... no at the moment.
Despite the fact I loathe apple, one thing I have to give to them is that their graphic engine for 3d games is much more superior than any android on the market.
Just compare playing Hero of Sparta on a SGS(which I own) as opposed to the Ipod touch. You can really feel the lag on the android.
However considering the fact that Sony annouced the PSP android phone, which is scheduled for next year, I am sure it is a issue that would be addressed by next year,
Apple has all good games, android do but not that much. I hope next year more developers will be porting games to android. I really would like to have a tap tap revenge on my vibrant.
I also think its quite difficult to develop games on the android due to the large range of resolutions and styles of each android phone. its a lot easier to develop a game if its based on a single type of phone with a single resolution - like the iphone is.
You guys are right. Perhaps is a matter of time, once they some how manage the fragmentation, like creating a gaming classification for handset manufacturers to encourage developers to make apps to that set class.
Hmmmm,
They should require a "minimum specification" phone for more advanced games (i.e >=1Ghz, >=Adreno 205/SGX535, <=512Mb ram, < 800*600 pixels screen, etc).
No one would expect a game like Crysis, etc to run on an Atom CPU? Why should it be any different on mobile phones?
dopeee said:
I also think its quite difficult to develop games on the android due to the large range of resolutions and styles of each android phone. its a lot easier to develop a game if its based on a single type of phone with a single resolution - like the iphone is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iphone DO NOT HAVE Standard resolution any more
Iphone 4: Retina Display 640X960
Iphone 1/2/3: HVGA 320X480
and almost all android games can now run on QVGA/HVGA/WVGA without problems
it's just a developer thing...
bountygiver said:
iphone DO NOT HAVE Standard resolution
Iphone 4: Retina Display 640X960
Iphone 1/2/3: HVGA 320X480
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly 2x size of iP3. Also the screen in iP4 from the API is handled the same as iP3 (so the resolution is treated as 320x480) but on iP4 we can have half-pixels, thus we can display a small dot in the position 100.5 that has size of 0.5 pixel. So this is exactly the same screen from developer's point of view.
The problem is money. If there was infinity blade for android people will file-share instantly. Iphone there are jailbreakers , but most of iphone population doesnt mind paying for the game.
zarpy said:
The problem is money. If there was infinity blade for android people will file-share instantly. Iphone there are jailbreakers , but most of iphone population doesnt mind paying for the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a really bad blanket statement. I think you missed the recent article that said the developer of Pocket Legends made more money on Android than iOS.
http://phandroid.com/2011/03/08/pocket-legends-developer-makes-more-money-on-android-than-on-ios/
RE the trailer:
The video was 98% renders from the PC and the other 3 seconds was from a phone, and it looked just as good as the best Android games.
zarpy said:
The problem is money. If there was infinity blade for android people will file-share instantly. Iphone there are jailbreakers , but most of iphone population doesnt mind paying for the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... you never heard of Installous??? It's the one and only best iPhone black market app that provides the most convenient way of downloading pirated apps, where as for Android you need to rely on warez sites, then transferring them onto your device and then browse for it to install.
So technically the ratio of piracy on iOS is much much greater than Android. I haven't met a single person where I live that doesn't have Installous.
xoltrix2000 said:
Um... you never heard of Installous??? It's the one and only best iPhone black market app that provides the most convenient way of downloading pirated apps, where as for Android you need to rely on warez sites, then transferring them onto your device and then browse for it to install.
So technically the ratio of piracy on iOS is much much greater than Android. I haven't met a single person where I live that doesn't have Installous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X2
I have a few friends with iPhones that pirate apps, and none of my friends with androids do. Also when it comes down to it iOS or Android, the majority of users aren't pirating apps.
You need to Jailbreak to use installous. You don't need root to install warez. Might affect your ratios...
Before i Jailbroke all my friends iDevices and showed them installous I didn't know anyone apart from myself that used installous. Cant really judge this just by the ppl around you.
All I can be sure of is what i know, and i know my inexperienced mind was much happier to install warez on my unrooted hero than it was to jailbreak my iPod touch.
It's really not safe to pirate apps on android. I remember one guy here reported that his phone got a virus because of installing pirated apps. That's why I don't think about pirating apps, and all the apps I need are free. :-D
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Its most definetly possible, infinity blade only looks good because they use normal mapping and other tricks to give a "hi-res" model look, the problem was there wasnt really any android game engines that easily support those features, and its only supported on open gls 2.0.
Unity3d for android has come out afew months ago for the public and it supports all the fancey extras to get that graphically edge, same with unreal 3 engine, dungeon defenders was done in that and it looks pretty damn good, but i dont know when the android version of U3 will be released.
Im currently developing a game in unity3d and im blown away with current tests to how powerful these devices actually are.
edit:
Keep in mind infinity blade is a pretty crap game, swipe swipe swipe, repeat,
evilkorn said:
That's a really bad blanket statement. I think you missed the recent article that said the developer of Pocket Legends made more money on Android than iOS.
http://phandroid.com/2011/03/08/pocket-legends-developer-makes-more-money-on-android-than-on-ios/
RE the trailer:
The video was 98% renders from the PC and the other 3 seconds was from a phone, and it looked just as good as the best Android games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read the whole articule before saying thats a bad statement. The articule tells you its an exception rather than the rule.
Look its very simple to understand. Developers will go where they will make the most money. Sure iphone has jailbreakers which I stated in my 1st post. But Android has easy file-sharing access. No developer will bust his a$$ just to make $100 off a game that takes him 6 months to make.
File-sharing is easy on android just like windows mobile 6,6.1, and 6.5 . Unless developers can make money the way they do in the iphone market , they will not make the games for Android. This is not opinion but plain real life facts.
More fun and games coming our way...
http://mobilitydigest.com/hp-gives-webos-to-the-open-source-community
Hopefully CM team will utilize that.
wootsauce baby
What can this mean for us, more kernels and drivers right?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
r4dik4l said:
What can this mean for us, more kernels and drivers right?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. No more reverse engineering. Think of your touchpad as another HTC HD2 for tablets.
i like that. the HTC HD2 of the tablets XD. great news for us cause ill be ordering mine sunday .
Yeah I think I'll get one on sat from HP on eBay.... supposed to be another fire sale
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App
Very good news for both OSes : CM dev would be faster with sources and webOS might be improved by community knowledge.
Happier and much more having bought a TP
I was thinking of getting rid of my touchpad since android progress was slow and there are so many nicer tablets coming out. But now guess I will wait a little longer.
I really would love to see WebOS take off. I like it better then Android in some ways. It would be cool if Android apps could run on webOS. Now maybe it could happen.
Why not
gedster314 said:
I was thinking of getting rid of my touchpad since android progress was slow and there are so many nicer tablets coming out. But now guess I will wait a little longer.
I really would love to see WebOS take off. I like it better then Android in some ways. It would be cool if Android apps could run on webOS. Now maybe it could happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I do not understand.
IPhone, Android, and WebOS are all Linux.
Why aren't all the apps interchangeable?
What is really different about an IPK or an APK?
ccbeam said:
That's what I do not understand.
IPhone, Android, and WebOS are all Linux.
Why aren't all the apps interchangeable?
What is really different about an IPK or an APK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Android, iOS, and WebOS are all based on Linux kernels. The difference between them is that each has a different "framework" to access the kernel features. The "framework" is basically an API (Application Programming Interface) that interacts with the Linux kernel that is basically controlling the hardware.
Hence, an application that emulates one OS while running another is simply doing a translation from a program written for a particular API into the native OS API. The problems with emulators are of course, first and formost performance, and second it may not be possible to translate all actions from one API to the other.
I remember the days when the argument for Linux was that it is portable from platform to platform... just recompile and off you go.
just because they are releasing the source for webos does not mean they are releasing any touchpad specific source. Our version of webos may never be open sourced. it's a possibility.
I can't seem to find much on this, so I thought I'd ask the question. I personally use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus and was a previous owner of a Galaxy S1. I also sport an Apple Macbook Pro and I love the computer.
There's been a constant "reminder" from various articles how developing for iOS appeals to the developer more than doing so for Android.
This topic has spawned countless of times, and with the recent intro of Instagram to Android, that topic has been re-written once more to show why iOS is "dominant" among developers compared to Android. Article HERE.
Thing is, with all this talk about developing for iOS being better, I find myself asking "if that were true, then why do developers still develop for Android? If that were true, Instagram wouldn't even bother coming to Android...especially since it's free."
So what would make developers for Instagram want to make an app for Android when according to these articles:
Developing on Android is "harder" because it has to adapt to countless hardwares
Android developers make less than iOS developers
Do you develop for both iOS and Android? What's your take? What actually entices you to want to work on the Android platform?
It would be nice if a developer who works on both platforms can give some insights. Please no fanboy or anti-apple talk here...I am sure many of you Android users like me, would have had your friends who are iPhone users bring up such a topic on how they've read that developing for iOS is better, and you can't explain to them why people still make apps for Android cause there's little material online to covers that topic. I'm genuinely curious to know from a developer's perspective
Developers want to get their program out to as many people as possible so they develop for platforms where the customers are at. The two biggest phone operating systems right now are iOS and Android.
Developers choose iOS first because their is a lot less device diversity with iOS devices so developing an app is probably easier. It has also been shown that there is more money to be made selling iOS apps than Android apps which could be due to the fact that people who are on a tight budget may see an Android device as a better deal or may have a carrier that doesn't even sell the iPhone. Piracy is an issue on both platforms but it could be argued that Android is easier to pirate on since apks can be sideloaded without rooting where as iPhones have to be jailbroken. But sideloading apks is used for legit reasons as well, like testing betas, nightlies and other apps that aren't distributed through App Stores.
Android apps have to account for multiple screen resolutions, ratios, and densities. Most regular apps scale just fine. Games seem to be where there are the most issues and I really wish Google would address the issues. It seems each GPU type needs its own support (PowerVR, Nvidia, Adreno, etc). I really wish Google would implement something like DirectX so games can be played on any GPU with enough power. iOS has the advantage here because only a single GPU type is used, PowerVR I believe, so all games can be optimized for it. Couple that with the fact that iOS tends to bring in more money and this is why the game developers usually favor it over Android.
Thanks for the insight. I figured gaming would be difficult for developers but didn't understand why, I just naturally assumed that "if the app seems more complicated, it naturally equates to more complications making it run on various hardwares".
Am I right to say then that when tech reviewers write about how Developers favor iOS to Android, it's mostly pertaining to gaming?
What about non-gaming apps? Is reaching as many people as possible the only incentive to go Android? Take Whatsapp, or Instagram that recently came out...it's free on Android, it also has to deal with multiple hardwares (though now I'm assuming it's actually not as tough as it sounds to accomplish if the app's fairly simple)...is there an incentive for developers to create an Android App...cause the guys at Instagram or Whatsapp could have gone "Well there's nothing here for me, I'll just stick to iOS"...because from what I see, it looks like opening it to the Android market meant having to stress their servers with a sudden influx of users, which mean spending more money to maintain them so it doesn't slow down too much...it seems like a lose-lose situation from where I'm standing. =\
I guess for some apps, google ads are what keeps them going...like Draw Something. I do wonder though how Whatsapp and Instagram manages its upkeep when it doesnt have ads...and if the answer is that they use the money earned from iOS to manage their expansion, is it really worth it if the goal is just branding purposes.
If there is a market to reach developers will develop. Web developers had to put up with the terrible non standard supporting ie6 for years. It was a real pain to develop for but had a large user base that couldnt just be ignored. Android is the same way, developers go where they can reach the consumer. Luckily android its nowhere near as bad as ie6 was.
Sent from my Touchpad using Tapatalk
spunker88 said:
If there is a market to reach developers will develop. Web developers had to put up with the terrible non standard supporting ie6 for years. It was a real pain to develop for but had a large user base that couldnt just be ignored. Android is the same way, developers go where they can reach the consumer. Luckily android its nowhere near as bad as ie6 was.
Sent from my Touchpad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input! From your take, it seems like developers make apps for Android not because they want to, but they have to.
Do you or any of the developers reading this, can testify that there are some ups to developing on Android as compared to iOS.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
lufc said:
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, sorry the topic may be [Q] but it's meant to generate comments and thoughts pertaining to the Android platform as per the sub header for Android General
Could it please be sent back to Android General? The Q&A section seems to be a place for people to post technical questions they need help solving.
Anyway, anyone else able to share their thoughts? Do you develop for both iOS and Android? It seems so far that people prefer to develop for iOS and lesser for Android, but they do it cause they have to as a means of reaching to the masses, but not really because they want to.
Anyone beg to differ? Do you have a reason why you actually prefer developing for Android over iOS?
Hi,
I'm a web developer, and when I decided to try mobile development, I made the choice to develop only for Android, for various reasons, but mainly because I'm not a fan of the Apple ecosystem.
This is not fanboyism here, I'm not bashing Apple, they make great products. But I prefer a fragmented ecosystem, with various companies, various devices, various app markets, etc. because this is a great source of opportunities. I also like the fact that android is open-source, leaving the availability to study the source code and hack around.
As for the difficulty to develop for various devices, I'd say that I'm used to it, being a web developer. Web devs are used to cope with various browsers (some of them being pretty old) and different screen sizes. See for example the mediaqueri.es site (cannot post link since I'm a new user)
thibaultj said:
Hi,
I'm a web developer, and when I decided to try mobile development, I made the choice to develop only for Android, for various reasons, but mainly because I'm not a fan of the Apple ecosystem.
This is not fanboyism here, I'm not bashing Apple, they make great products. But I prefer a fragmented ecosystem, with various companies, various devices, various app markets, etc. because this is a great source of opportunities. I also like the fact that android is open-source, leaving the availability to study the source code and hack around.
As for the difficulty to develop for various devices, I'd say that I'm used to it, being a web developer. Web devs are used to cope with various browsers (some of them being pretty old) and different screen sizes. See for example the mediaqueri.es site (cannot post link since I'm a new user)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your 2 cents! Am I right to assume that in fact, having to deal with different hardwares and screen sizes are actually a norm among developers before iOS came along? In other words, yes, Apple is right to say criticize that other platforms are harder to work with compared to iOS but that's because iOS is the exception among developing platforms where it's system is easier to work with?
spunker88 said:
I really wish Google would implement something like DirectX so games can be played on any GPU with enough power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But Android and iOS already have something like DirectX - OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0.
The_R said:
But Android and iOS already have something like DirectX - OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the additional input...if there always is a direct standard like Open GL in both iOS and Android, what's the difficult part about manufacturing games for Android?
iOS required Apple computer to install their development environment. And You must pay 99$ per year for being the official iOS developer..
ayen1234 said:
iOS required Apple computer to install their development environment. And You must pay 99$ per year for being the official iOS developer..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd actually say that it is worth it.
yeahyeahright said:
Thanks for the additional input...if there always is a direct standard like Open GL in both iOS and Android, what's the difficult part about manufacturing games for Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think its large number of the types of Android devices. It really isn't as simple as just supporting different screen sizes. Doing that is actually a really simple task using OpenGL.
With my own games I've experienced that what generally works on my test device won't necessarily work the same way on someone else's. For example, some devices support textures of any size while some devices have a constraint of the texture size being a power of 2. On many of my games which need multitouch, I've experienced that it doesn't always work the same on all devices either. On some it is downright broken while on other it just works fine.
There are many such other issues which you'd be aware of only after experiencing them.
The reason for this is the different hardware and the different software implementations that each phone manufacturer brings in. Even if the game "works" on a wide range of devices, there is always a different feel that you get when playing on a different device because of the hardware variations. You might get a good frame rate on a high end phone but have you tried playing it on a low end one? I've seen games from even the big publishers working fine on a high end phone but it just is completely glitchy on a low end one.
Now for a small developer with limited resources it can get really hard to test on and support as many devices as possible. This is one of the main reasons I feel that it can get really hard to develop games on Android. It just requires more effort if the developer wants to guarantee a good experience on a wide range of devices.
The other factor as stated before is that the iOS platform is more uniform. And moreover there are more people who are apparently willing to pay for your game on iOS than on Android. With one of my own games I've experienced that I've made more money in the last 10 days by selling it on the iOS App store than on Android in the last one year with ad revenues.
I actually started developing games on Android initially and one of the really big disappointments for me has been that I am not able to sell my games on the market(now Google Play) because Google checkout for merchants is only available in a few countries. This was the main reason for me to consider moving over to iOS. I think I could sell on a different market like the Amazon App store if I really wanted though.
Inspite of all that I'd say that Android is a great platform.
Wow thanks a lot for the insight! It's great to understand it from a developer's POV, especially one who works on both platforms.
I realise people do comment a lot about Android users less committed to pay for an app, I wonder why...I don't think it's due to their budget, my guess is that their afraid it may not work well on their devices...to that I think Google could really push hard and promote it's 15 minutes refund policy which I think a lot of users are not aware of....I use the 15 minute window a lot and it helps me to decide if something is worth my time buying or not.
I guess the "openness" of Android has allowed phone manufacturers to get really creative with their products (Touchwiz, Sense, Dual Screens, Qwerty Keypads etc) but at the same time, makes it harder for a developer to create stuff, probably even harder than creating stuff on a Windows Desktop.
Do any of you think that having "game settings" like you get on a Windows PC will help change this experience? Either one where the user gets to tweak the graphics (low, med, high) and performance, or perhaps one where the game will adjust graphics to the "recommended setting based on your hardware"? Is this even possible on Android or it's more complicated than you'd get on Windows?
yeahyeahright said:
Do any of you think that having "game settings" like you get on a Windows PC will help change this experience? Either one where the user gets to tweak the graphics (low, med, high) and performance, or perhaps one where the game will adjust graphics to the "recommended setting based on your hardware"? Is this even possible on Android or it's more complicated than you'd get on Windows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I have actually seen a few games that do that, and it does help. But it also requires some extra time and effort on the developer's part.
In some of my games too, I've added some simple settings in order to change the control schemes, so that if one of them doesn't work for you, you could choose the other one. Graphically, though, my games are really simple.
yeahyeahright said:
Thanks for your 2 cents! Am I right to assume that in fact, having to deal with different hardwares and screen sizes are actually a norm among developers before iOS came along? In other words, yes, Apple is right to say criticize that other platforms are harder to work with compared to iOS but that's because iOS is the exception among developing platforms where it's system is easier to work with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having to deal with different hardwares started to be a thing of the past, with the explosion of web apps. One platform for all, what a dream! Then came smartphones and tablets, and developing for a native platfrom became cool again.
Anyway, building for the web is still the only way to reach anyone with an internet access. The only problem with web apps is that it's harder to monetize. But the web's decentralized architecture is not a bug, it's a feature. That is what guarantees it's freedom and independance. You don't have such guarantees on a centralized market managed by a single company, whose first goal is profit.
Well, this post was slightly off-topic, sorry about that.
Thanks both of you for the really good insight. I guess Android is great as a supposedly "open" phone os, it certainly has a lot of hurdles to clear in order to please and entice developers the way iOS does, I'm not certain it can get there, but I do think they do make an effort, like the just upgraded emulator which shows Google's commitment to better developed apps (talk about timing!).
I'm certainly happy with my Android phone and from what I've read about the negative results developers gain from working on Android than on iOS, I take my hat off to those that stick around on this platform and try to make things happen. *clap*
=)
I choose Android for one reason. It's much cheaper. Only 25$ one time. iOS is 99$ every year
Hellooo~!
I'm a tad new to the world of Android Development, but have plenty of programming history. I'm going to be starting a project to get Arch Linux running on my Photon 4G, and am contemplating making this public. My end goal is to get it working on the Photon, with a working on-screen keyboard, decent battery life, and lapdock/HDMI/peripheral support.
If you're a bit skeptical, know that there is a distribution of Arch Linux that supports ARMv5-v7 processors.
So before I begin my journey, I want to know:
Is anyone interested in this?
Sounds interesting. It appears you may be doing something different than the typical chroot method? As an Archlinux desktop user, a phone version would be cool.
Best of luck with your project. If you need testers, I would be willing to try to help.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
jahildebra said:
Hellooo~!
I'm a tad new to the world of Android Development, but have plenty of programming history. I'm going to be starting a project to get Arch Linux running on my Photon 4G, and am contemplating making this public. My end goal is to get it working on the Photon, with a working on-screen keyboard, decent battery life, and lapdock/HDMI/peripheral support.
If you're a bit skeptical, know that there is a distribution of Arch Linux that supports ARMv5-v7 processors.
So before I begin my journey, I want to know:
Is anyone interested in this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mighty ambitious! Im definitely interested in this. Arch is one of my favorite distributions. I'm concerned about the usability of it though. What desktop environment would you aim to use? Are there any that I'm unaware of that that are geared toward mobile phones?
jbaumert said:
Sounds interesting. It appears you may be doing something different than the typical chroot method? As an Archlinux desktop user, a phone version would be cool.
Best of luck with your project. If you need testers, I would be willing to try to help.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see you're interested!
As far as getting Arch on the phone, I want to the phone to boot straight into the Arch environment without the Android system in the background. This may not be possible due to the phones bootloader, but if anything I'll have an extremely minimal version of Android acting as a crutch for Arch, helping it to boot up and perform other operations. The system should be 90% Arch Linux.
Please don't take this the wrong way but as long as it has nothing to do with the current chroot/VNC method I'm all for it. The chroot method lacks access to the phone's hardware so things like audio, USB host don't work.
If chroot/VNC is what you are trying to avoid then you may want to look at Gentop2 and kholk's original Gentop project. This should give you an idea as to how they achieved framebuffer and hardware access. If you want to provide support for Tegra2 Moto's you'll need to keep the install below 755MB for Atrix support unless a webtop2sd type method will be used.
Another thing you may want to consider is that the upcoming ICS update and AOSP lack the needed framebuffer/HW access. You may need to hack and kang a far bit to get ICS and AOSP support.
Acvice said:
Mighty ambitious! Im definitely interested in this. Arch is one of my favorite distributions. I'm concerned about the usability of it though. What desktop environment would you aim to use? Are there any that I'm unaware of that that are geared toward mobile phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahah, I was just thinking about that myself. As per my knowledge, there are ZERO DE's geared towards phones. We could come pretty close to the mobile-phone experience using a tablet/netbook-oriented DE, similar to Unity. Unity is capable of running on Arch, but I don't know if it's ARM compatible, or how smoothly it would run on a small processor like the Tegra 2. If anything I could just configure an Xmonad environment that runs entirely off of mouse/touch gestures.
jahildebra said:
Hahah, I was just thinking about that myself. As per my knowledge, there are ZERO DE's geared towards phones. We could come pretty close to the mobile-phone experience using a tablet/netbook-oriented DE, similar to Unity. Unity is capable of running on Arch, but I don't know if it's ARM compatible, or how smoothly it would run on a small processor like the Tegra 2. If anything I could just configure an Xmonad environment that runs entirely off of mouse/touch gestures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unity can run on ARM and is pretty but fairly resource heavy. Canonical has Ubuntu 12 running on an Atrix2 but have no intention of releasing source at this time. I would suggest staying with a lightweight "Unity like" enviro. This will free up resources for other things.
Might I suggest OpenBox? Extremely lightweight and easily configurable to suit the needs of a small screen. Desktops and windows are easily manageable from a single bottom bar, all application categories pop up in a menu when taping on any part of the 'desktop', all with gradients and transparency as needed so to still be slick looking. My mental imagine of the setup would be similar to that of Webos and easily achievable and user friendly. A particular distribution that i've been using for a while whom has really made the flexibility of Openbox shine is Crunchbang. The dude who runs the distro has developed many little GUI utilities that are made to configure Openboxs' script-based setup. So if you decided to use it, a lot of work is already done so to speak. Check it out and see if you get any inspiration!
Acvice said:
Might I suggest OpenBox? Extremely lightweight and easily configurable to suit the needs of a small screen. Desktops and windows are easily manageable from a single bottom bar, all application categories pop up in a menu when taping on any part of the 'desktop', all with gradients and transparency as needed so to still be slick looking. My mental imagine of the setup would be similar to that of Webos and easily achievable and user friendly. A particular distribution that i've been using for a while whom has really made the flexibility of Openbox shine is Crunchbang. The dude who runs the distro has developed many little GUI utilities that are made to configure Openboxs' script-based setup. So if you decided to use it, a lot of work is already done so to speak. Check it out and see if you get any inspiration!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion! I've never used OpenBox before, but I've heard its customizability is similar to Xmonad's.
I'll check it out!
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Lokifish Marz said:
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly average/power users. Arch Linux is definitely not for the weak hearted.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Lokifish Marz said:
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, generally speaking, Arch is most certainly not for Linux noobs
::edit::
Haha, totally didnt see there was a page 2. Jahildebra already said it.
The reason I asked is that I agree that Arch "out of the box" is more "power user" than say Ubuntu Desktop but not much more so than most server distros. It would really depend on what extras are put in. Arch running Gnome with all the bells and whistles could be very n00b friendly if set up with them in mind. Then again my perspective may be a little off as I still remember Mandrake coming on floppies with only a command line installer.
Lokifish Marz said:
The reason I asked is that I agree that Arch "out of the box" is more "power user" than say Ubuntu Desktop but not much more so than most server distros. It would really depend on what extras are put in. Arch running Gnome with all the bells and whistles could be very n00b friendly if set up with them in mind. Then again my perspective may be a little off as I still remember Mandrake coming on floppies with only a command line installer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah I get what you're sayin. As long as you hook people up with multimedia codecs, a good package manager, and some necessary apps i think even noobs would be happy. And I havnt heard anyone mention Mandrake in many years since Mandriva. I popped into the linux scene around Ubuntus dapper drake release. Ever since Ive ran debian.
Well, it seems like there's interest aplenty.
I'll be starting the project as soon as possible.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
More interest will arrive when some solid progress is made im sure. I do have a question though.. Im a little unsure of how you plan to get sms, mms, data and such working on this. Or maybe i missed the point entirely. Is it not meant to be a fully functional replacement of android?
Acvice said:
More interest will arrive when some solid progress is made im sure. I do have a question though.. Im a little unsure of how you plan to get sms, mms, data and such working on this. Or maybe i missed the point entirely. Is it not meant to be a fully functional replacement of android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will be one of the biggest challenges, alongside getting Arch to boot initially and having the phone be usable even without a physical keyboard. I plan to at least have 3G working, but I don't quite know how that will play out. None of the devices Arch Linux ARM has a release for have a 3G radio in the first place, so we have no examples to follow, and we'll have to figure this out on our own.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
What utility does Ubuntu and other desktop distro's use to accept usb tethering from any android phone? I'm guessing netcfg (it's all I know in that department) is the norm, if so there may be a way to point it at the radio internally and then play around with settings for data and possibly calls. Webtop may still be running acual Android but it still has configuration files just like everything else in linux. We should be able to figure this out over time.
Interested? Not as such... More like curious.
I'm new to Linux and have never really been able to gain a foothold. I'm still kicking myself for building a gaming PC and thus tying myself to Windows. With Steam announcing support for Linux... If Bethesda joins them and support for the Fallout games and Skyrim comes to Linux... bye bye Windows. But for now Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't like my computer. And Arch isn't Ubuntu, but I'm willing to learn.
Would this support the phone parts? I understand that Arch has ARM builds, and they support a Tegra 2 device very similar to the Photon/Electrify, but that device doesn't have a CDMA radio in it, and possibly other components. Does it have Bluetooth? In any case, you'd need drivers for the hardware specifically in the Photon/Electrify, and Motorola hasn't been very forthcoming with community support.
As for keyboards, anyone in America at least can get a physical keyboard for $16. Newegg has a mini keyboard like an iMac's for $15 shipped, and Amazon has a USB OTG cable for under a buck. The two won't work for me on my phone under a couple CM10 ROMs, though. I read for drives it's a matter of power, but a keyboard shouldn't draw any (surely the 100mA the phone puts out over the micro USB should be enough for the caps/num/scroll lock LEDs). But the software on the phone has to support a keyboard that way; I don't know that Android knows to expect input that way.
Finally Ubuntu for the tablets is here. That's Right!!! This Thursday for the nexus7 and 10. Here goes the official video http://youtu.be/h384z7Ph0gU
hit the thanks... been a while
Almost here ,.....
Sent from my HTC Droid Dna Venom Rom using Tapatalk 2
horatiob said:
Finally Ubuntu for the tablets is here. That's Right!!! This Thursday for the nexus7 and 10. Here goes the official video http://youtu.be/h384z7Ph0gU
hit the thanks... been a while
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
I think I'm going to wait a little bit, conceptually it seems great but I would initially like to "dual-boot" if that is in any way possible - does it actually install a grub like pre-loader where I could choose to boot to my SentinalROM instead? How about Google Play store integration, any news on that? The biggest hurdle for myself would be losing access to all my Play Store games/books.
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
I think I'm going to wait a little bit, conceptually it seems great but I would initially like to "dual-boot" if that is in any way possible - does it actually install a grub like pre-loader where I could choose to boot to my SentinalROM instead? How about Google Play store integration, any news on that? The biggest hurdle for myself would be losing access to all my Play Store games/books.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh absolutely. I plan on downloading it as soon as it goes live.
Sent from my GT-N7100
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to give it a try on my Nexus 7.. That's my entertainment/screw around with my own builds tablet.. I'm really not privvy to testing "development previews" of an alternate OS on a $500 tablet.. I'll at minimum wait a bit to feel it out on the Nexus 7 first and hear back from those who did try it on the Nexus 10.
Can this be dual booted?
I already backed up my tablet's data on pc. Ready to install it on both nexus 7 and 10!
tawfiqmp said:
Can this be dual booted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't read detail on it yet, but I did see a note indicating that it can be set up with dual boot -- needs a custom recovery, but it appeared pretty straightforward when I glanced at the description. Dual boot would certainly make me more receptive to giving it a try.
I'm not much of a developer but I'm all over this. Been waiting for over a year for this.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Dual boot is mandatory for me to do this
SayWhat10 said:
Dual boot is mandatory for me to do this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. dual boot or no go!
if there is ubuntu for android where you have access to your android apps. Why cant we do that with our nexus 10?
I dont care for dualbooting if I can have access to android apps from within ubuntu.
horatiob said:
if there is ubuntu for android where you have access to your android apps. Why cant we do that with our nexus 10?
I dont care for dualbooting if I can have access to android apps from within ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know you do not have access to your android applications you simply have ubuntu.
Sent from a SGS3 GT-i9305
Loving this. You know they're turning this loose for the imaginative dev/hacker community to get great ideas for a full release on their own devices. It will benefit all in the long run. Google better embrace this as the future, I hope.
Sent from my LT28at using XDA Premium HD app
fredphoesh said:
As far as I know you do not have access to your android applications you simply have ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well that sounds like............it sucks. smh
i mean all these people happy to that ubuntu is about here, that they would give up all their android apps? really????????????????
Recon Freak said:
Loving this. You know they're turning this loose for the imaginative dev/hacker community to get great ideas for a full release on their own devices. It will benefit all in the long run. Google better embrace this as the future, I hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's great seeing this kind of development, but I'm not yet clear that it's something that would help Google or necessarily benefit the majority of the user community...at least not in the near term. Google's been working hard at gaining market acceptance for Android, and a significant component of this will likely be, increasingly, the availability of Android as an internally consistent ecosystem that spans phone and tablets. Ubuntu is pushing the same idea, i.e., a single ecosystem that encompasses phones, tablets and PC's -- and that's great. But unless there's interoperability between OS's, it may be a while before the consumer market is ready to embrace yet another mobile OS in a big way, as appealing as Ubuntu may be.
My Android phone (Galaxy Nexus) and tablets (N10 and N7) work so well together these days that I really wouldn't want to replace any of them with a device running an OS and aps that didn't "connect" with my other devices as well and seamlessly as they all work together now. I'm also not about to replace all 3 devices right away, and start fresh finding apps that mimic the functionality of the 100+ Android apps that I have installed.
Android and Ubuntu are both based on Linux at the lowest levels, so they can take advantage of common hardware drivers. But at the app level, they're based on different languages and runtime systems - so far. At the moment, Android apps can't run on Ubuntu in any kind of native mode and vice versa. While Google is working to gain broad acceptance of Android, what incentive would they have to throw another OS in the mix at this stage of the game?
jonstrong said:
Android and Ubuntu are both based on Linux at the lowest levels, so they can take advantage of common hardware drivers. But at the app level, they're based on different languages and runtime systems - so far. At the moment, Android apps can't run on Ubuntu in any kind of native mode and vice versa. While Google is working to gain broad acceptance of Android, what incentive would they have to throw another OS in the mix at this stage of the game?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I meant to quote and managed to thank you - While they are based on different levels I do recall hearing that there would be a dalvik vm built into ubuntu to allow for android applications to run inside the system as well - as long as you have the apk and such. Similar to BlueStacks for W8 and Windows desktop.
omac_ranger said:
Well I meant to quote and managed to thank you - While they are based on different levels I do recall hearing that there would be a dalvik vm built into ubuntu to allow for android applications to run inside the system as well - as long as you have the apk and such. Similar to BlueStacks for W8 and Windows desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the thanks, however inadvertent
As far as I've read, Canonical doesn't plan on creating a Dalvik JVM for Ubuntu any time soon. The statement from them suggested that they recognize that native compiled apps (the dev ecosystem on Ubuntu is primarily HTML5, QML, C++) will run faster and more efficiently than code running within a JVM -- this was part of the comment when asked if they were planning to incorporate a Dalvik emulator in Ubuntu. There's nothing to prevent someone from developing one, but making this work properly will also require cooperation between the Dalvik implementation and the security framework in Ubuntu -- certainly possible, but I'm guessing it could be a year before anything comprehensive along those lines is likely to make it to market.
There's also another question nagging at me: how will Google evolve Android over the next couple of years? With an increasing number of apps rolling out for Android, it's conceivable that multiple windows (such as Samsung already offers) may become a regular feature, apps will become increasingly powerful -- and the distinction, at least for many people and many applications -- between PC and Android device -- will become vanishingly small for many purposes. If that happens, my guess is that this would further reduce any incentive for Google to somehow tie Ubuntu in with Android.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, and this just be the kind of thinking that happens after a 12 hour day without enough coffee... I personally love the evolution of hardware and software, and look forward to seeing how this all pans out. Fun to speculate in the meantime.
jonstrong said:
Thanks for the thanks, however inadvertent
As far as I've read, Canonical doesn't plan on creating a Dalvik JVM for Ubuntu any time soon. The statement from them suggested that they recognize that native compiled apps (the dev ecosystem on Ubuntu is primarily HTML5, QML, C++) will run faster and more efficiently than code running within a JVM -- this was part of the comment when asked if they were planning to incorporate a Dalvik emulator in Ubuntu. There's nothing to prevent someone from developing one, but making this work properly will also require cooperation between the Dalvik implementation and the security framework in Ubuntu -- certainly possible, but I'm guessing it could be a year before anything comprehensive along those lines is likely to make it to market.
There's also another question nagging at me: how will Google evolve Android over the next couple of years? With an increasing number of apps rolling out for Android, it's conceivable that multiple windows (such as Samsung already offers) may become a regular feature, apps will become increasingly powerful -- and the distinction, at least for many people and many applications -- between PC and Android device -- will become vanishingly small for many purposes. If that happens, my guess is that this would further reduce any incentive for Google to somehow tie Ubuntu in with Android.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, and this just be the kind of thinking that happens after a 12 hour day without enough coffee... I personally love the evolution of hardware and software, and look forward to seeing how this all pans out. Fun to speculate in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does Ubuntu have to do anything with Google?
The developer preview is being made for Nexus devices but that's only because they are readily available and open to hacking.
I don't think Canonical realistically thinks Ubuntu will be the lead platform for Phones and Tablets but that's okay. They're currently trying to fill a niche with their tablet OS which is the enterprise market. This is one place where Android hasn't made a ton of inroads and it happens to be where Canonical makes their money(albeit still not profitable).