So I went on trying the leaked Samsung firmware for my GT-I9300, everything seems fine, may be even better than the last one released here in Mexico, thing is, now that I'm trying to pull some files from my device via ADB it says that it is unauthorized, I searched for a while and I found that there needs to pop a prompt to authorize my PC to connect via ADB, but there's no such prompt. I tried checking/unchecking the USB debug mode on my device, restarting it, re-plugging it, different ports, ADB over the network, restarting my PC, anything that I can think of, and no luck.
Can anyone give me some insight on what can I do?
Thanks in advance and I apologize beforehand for my weird English.
Are you doing it through recovery? Are you rooted? Little more detail would help to get a better answer.
Rooted ?
sent from marijuanated muffin
jhonyrod said:
So I went on trying the leaked Samsung firmware for my GT-I9300, everything seems fine, may be even better than the last one released here in Mexico, thing is, now that I'm trying to pull some files from my device via ADB it says that it is unauthorized, I searched for a while and I found that there needs to pop a prompt to authorize my PC to connect via ADB, but there's no such prompt. I tried checking/unchecking the USB debug mode on my device, restarting it, re-plugging it, different ports, ADB over the network, restarting my PC, anything that I can think of, and no luck.
Can anyone give me some insight on what can I do?
Thanks in advance and I apologize beforehand for my weird English.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ME7 is a leak (production build), "adbd cannot run as root in production builds" will always pop up.
i dont know how to fix this, but im pretty sure its a line in the build.prop and something in /system/bin.
ricky310711 said:
ME7 is a leak (production build), "adbd cannot run as root in production builds" will always pop up.
i dont know how to fix this, but im pretty sure its a line in the build.prop and something in /system/bin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't find anything on my build.prop about that, also, no pop up shows, not the prompt to authorize my PC nor the one you mentioned
wangdaning said:
Are you doing it through recovery? Are you rooted? Little more detail would help to get a better answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, didn't tried it via recovery, I might try, but it may become a hassle, since I do this frequently. Also, I tried this before and after rooting it with no effect whatsoever.
jhonyrod said:
I didn't find anything on my build.prop about that, also, no pop up shows, not the prompt to authorize my PC nor the one you mentioned
No, didn't tried it via recovery, I might try, but it may become a hassle, since I do this frequently. Also, I tried this before and after rooting it with no effect whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, theres only one thing that solved this problem, you have to flash a different kernel!
Related
Hello I did not wanted to make a new thread for this question, but I can't figure it out.. I'm preparing my phone for jcase exploit to unlock my bootloader. I did just about everything to prepare the phone except for the drivers, and the drivers are usually the easiest thing to install.
1. I have sdk installed
2. Java is up to date
3. I have set up HTC sync several times.
- my phone is on debuggin
- I have followed the steps on HTC sync page including tunrning off my antivirus
The pic is what it says everytime I try to install drivers. There is also a pic of my platform-tools. When I try locate on adb the imei is not popping up it says waiting for device. What else can I do to install my drivers.. thx
sent from my DNA
to install the drivers, install htc sync. after that you should be all set.
you can probably open up a CMD and check adb devices
if it doesnt show up try running CMD with admin rights.
donjuan08 said:
Hello I did not wanted to make a new thread for this question, but I can't figure it out.. I'm preparing my phone for jcase exploit to unlock my bootloader. I did just about everything to prepare the phone except for the drivers, and the drivers are usually the easiest thing to install.
1. I have sdk installed
2. Java is up to date
3. I have set up HTC sync several times.
- my phone is on debuggin
- I have followed the steps on HTC sync page including tunrning off my antivirus
The pic is what it says everytime I try to install drivers. There is also a pic of my platform-tools. When I try locate on adb the imei is not popping up it says waiting for device. What else can I do to install my drivers.. thx
sent from my DNA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always search on Google HTC droid dna usb drivers, There might be some defected or missing files at yours. And if that doesn't work, try on a different computer.
OK, similar situation. I went through jcases exploit without a hitch. Adb works just fine, I can see my device with adb devices command. When I go to bootloader/fastboot-usb, and try to get my unlock token from htcdev, all I get is waiting for device. The fact that adb works tells me that the drivers are installed. What am I missing?
trickster2369 said:
OK, similar situation. I went through jcases exploit without a hitch. Adb works just fine, I can see my device with adb devices command. When I go to bootloader/fastboot-usb, and try to get my unlock token from htcdev, all I get is waiting for device. The fact that adb works tells me that the drivers are installed. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When in the bootloader have you selected the fastboot option?
Sent from my rooted and debloated HTC DNA
Mazer_R said:
When in the bootloader have you selected the fastboot option?
Sent from my rooted and debloated HTC DNA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I did this without issue on my Rezound, but this is really starting to piss me off.
trickster2369 said:
Yes. I did this without issue on my Rezound, but this is really starting to piss me off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, to further help you, I'm going to need you to thoroughly walk me through the steps you're taking -- all commands you're running, what you're plugging in, everything. I don't mean to insult you're intelligence or anything, but it's probably something simple.
Mazer_R said:
Ok, to further help you, I'm going to need you to thoroughly walk me through the steps you're taking -- all commands you're running, what you're plugging in, everything. I don't mean to insult you're intelligence or anything, but it's probably something simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries. As I stated earlier, I went through the unlock exploit from jcase without any problems. I went to htcdev, got to the spot to enter the command to get the unlock token(already in bootloader/fastboot usb), and I get "waiting for device".
trickster2369 said:
No worries. As I stated earlier, I went through the unlock exploit from jcase without any problems. I went to htcdev, got to the spot to enter the command to get the unlock token(already in bootloader/fastboot usb), and I get "waiting for device".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some diagnostics:
1) Run fastboot devices
2) Move to a USB port of another USB bus (like on another side of the computer of the furthest port away physcially)
3) Reboot and do a 'adb devices'
4) Is HTC Sync installed? I've heard it can fudge some things up. Uninstall it if it is (the drivers will remain installed).
Reason for edit: making the diagnostics more clear for future users with this problem.
Mazer_R said:
Some diagnostics:
1) Run fastboot devices
2) Move to a USB port of another USB hub (like on another side of the computer of the furthest port away physcially)
3) Reboot and do a 'adb devices'
---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------
Edit: Is HTC Sync installed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, do I feel not so smart now. I moved to another usb port, plugged, and the drivers installed. Fastboot recognized and listed my device. I don't know how many times I've heard "try another port", and it never even crossed my mind.
Thanks, from a 44 year old geek
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
trickster2369 said:
Man, do I feel not so smart now. I moved to another usb port, plugged, and the drivers installed. Fastboot recognized and listed my device. I don't know how many times I've heard "try another port", and it never even crossed my mind.
Thanks, from a 44 year old geek
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's great to hear, man! Sometimes, when you're in a lower level hardware ROM, USB connections get finicky, and swapping around which USB bus handles the connection helps. Glad to hear you're unlocked -- let us know how the unlock finishes out.
Mazer_R said:
That's great to hear, man! Sometimes, when you're in a lower level hardware ROM, USB connections get finicky, and swapping around which USB bus handles the connection helps. Glad to hear you're unlocked -- let us know how the unlock finishes out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done deal. Unlocked, ready to get loaded.
trickster2369 said:
Done deal. Unlocked, ready to get loaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to hear! If you have any issues in the future feel free to PM me or ask on http://chat.andirc.net:8080/?channels=#droid-dna (the guys there are very friendly and helpful.) Or, post on the forums, but that one's obvious.
Happy Holidays Everyone!!!
Phone:
Tmobile T959 aka Samsung Vibrant
It is on stock Froyo 2.2
It has the 3E recovery.
I tried on 2 computers but I can NOT connect via USB it gives me USB malfunction error. The phone does charge. I can put it into download mode vie the 3 finger trick. When you connect it does give you the option to click the green Android icon Connect to USB. So it is talking to the computer, the usb is not totally dead.
Problem:
I need to root this phone. I can not use 1 click or anything else because I think there is a problem with the USB port. I can get files onto the phone via wifi or using the external sd card.
I tried using the update.zip file BUT because I am on the 3E recovery it will say signature failed. I can not run the install.bat to get it back to 2E recovery. I can not use ODIN because the Windows will not detect the phone properly.
What workaround can I use to root this phone? How would I use terminal on the phone?
HOW WOULD YOU ROOT THE PHONE IF YOUR USB PORT WAS "broken"?
THANKS for helping!
As far as I'm aware, you can't root your phone without the USB port working as most (if not all) root methods send their commands and files through ADB. Your pretty much stuck, unless your phone is under warranty. In that case, just go to your carrier and see if they'll give you a replacement device.
TheAndroidGod said:
As far as I'm aware, you can't root your phone without the USB port working as most (if not all) root methods send their commands and files through ADB. Your pretty much stuck, unless your phone is under warranty. In that case, just go to your carrier and see if they'll give you a replacement device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's out of warranty
I think there may be a way to do it via terminal emulator on the phone.
If this is possible, can someone please post how to do it.
anyone with a work around?
damn!
Am I stuck or does anyone have a way for me to root this phone without the using the USB connection (USB does charge, It will know when you connect to the pc for USB storage BUT windows will say not recognized. I tried it on 4 other pc's same results. I think something is wrong with the OS of the phone. I think the previous owner tried to update with Kies and it messed up the phone. The phone does boot and works.
droiduzr2 said:
damn!
Am I stuck or does anyone have a way for me to root this phone without the using the USB connection (USB does charge, It will know when you connect to the pc for USB storage BUT windows will say not recognized. I tried it on 4 other pc's same results. I think something is wrong with the OS of the phone. I think the previous owner tried to update with Kies and it messed up the phone. The phone does boot and works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to install phone drivers for the computer i had to do that for my phone.
maikzen said:
Try to install phone drivers for the computer i had to do that for my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did all of that.
I think something is wrong with the phone's OS that is effecting the usb port.
How do I root this phone WITHOUT the USB port?
There has to be a way!
Can you determinate VID&PID of phone?
I can get into the device with airdroid and see the system files.
Which files do I need (or which apps) and where do I copy them manually to get it rooted?
droiduzr2 said:
I can get into the device with airdroid and see the system files.
Which files do I need (or which apps) and where do I copy them manually to get it rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there not a device forum where you might could get some better information? My thinking is, a lot of the people (or most of the people) who may know some workarounds can probably help, but they don't check this section very often or at all.
Even if there's not a section for that model, I'm thinking there's probably one quite similar. Also a lot of times, a big portion of the userbase of one phone, will migrate to the same model when they upgrade.
Just throwing out some ideas in case that's helpful. My only advice on the problem itself is that I would look further into the driver issue. I've helped several people with very similar issues that we finally were able to correct.
Have you tried to ADB the device just to pull the serial? With USB debugging enabled. Have you installed the SDK and tried the naked drivers? There's some things to pursue possibly so you can have more information for the person who helps you get things straightened out.
Basically I have no rom on my phone, I have tried sideloading and everything and it could not work. However, I noticed under devices that instead of saying HTC it says android phone and I am unable to access it. I have tried going into properties, however it refuses to let me uninstall or or update drivers. Does anyone know anyway for my phone to recognize it as a HTC and not just an android phone? Maybe then I can bump a rom or sideload it onto my phone. Also when I sideload it shows HTC XXXXXXXXXX when i typ in cmd adb devices. In CWM it says sideload started. When I go to adb sideload derp.zip it gives me a massive wall of text and my phone doesn't show any files being transferred and says its still waiting for them to start transfer.
Any ideas?
Worst case scenario you think I could take it to T-Mobile and ask them to do a factory reset on it?
derpyherpes said:
Basically I have no rom on my phone, I have tried sideloading and everything and it could not work. However, I noticed under devices that instead of saying HTC it says android phone and I am unable to access it. I have tried going into properties, however it refuses to let me uninstall or or update drivers. Does anyone know anyway for my phone to recognize it as a HTC and not just an android phone? Maybe then I can bump a rom or sideload it onto my phone. Also when I sideload it shows HTC XXXXXXXXXX when i typ in cmd adb devices. In CWM it says sideload started. When I go to adb sideload derp.zip it gives me a massive wall of text and my phone doesn't show any files being transferred and says its still waiting for them to start transfer.
Any ideas?
Worst case scenario you think I could take it to T-Mobile and ask them to do a factory reset on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That used to happen to me with another phone I had and what I would do to solve it was uninstall the "android phone" driver (with the device connected at all times), then scan for hardware changes and it would reinstall the driver correctly.
I haven't experienced this issue with this phone but worked in the past with other HTC phones, hope it helps
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
megabiteg said:
That used to happen to me with another phone I had and what I would do to solve it was uninstall the "android phone" driver (with the device connected at all times), then scan for hardware changes and it would reinstall the driver correctly.
I haven't experienced this issue with this phone but worked in the past with other HTC phones, hope it helps
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, you may need to regedit uninstall. Search and delete all "android" references in your registry. Reboot. Install generic android drivers.
But definitely try the simpler method first!
Tried both of the solutions and neither one worked I am at my wit's end lol
Anythign else I can try?
derpyherpes said:
Tried both of the solutions and neither one worked I am at my wit's end lol
Anythign else I can try?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assume you've also tried installing generic HTC drivers?
Hey guys. I'm trying to root my m8 by using the toolkit. Well, I try to get the Token ID but adb fails since it can't find any devices. I've uninstalled the drivers, re installed, tried different sources, everything and I just can't get it to be recognized by ADB.
Anybody have any ideas? I'm running Win8x64
Regards
Smith
I'm having the same problem
smithisize said:
Hey guys. I'm trying to root my m8 by using the toolkit. Well, I try to get the Token ID but adb fails since it can't find any devices. I've uninstalled the drivers, re installed, tried different sources, everything and I just can't get it to be recognized by ADB.
Anybody have any ideas? I'm running Win8x64
Regards
Smith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure your SDK is up to date, and that you are opening the command prompt from the proper location. Also make sure that USB debugging is enabled in developer options on the device.
I've had the same issue. I did all of the above and even tried on a Mac and adb still hasn't recognized my phone. Im on win 7x64. Still researching for an answer.
I'm not sure if this will hold true for everyone, but what worked for me was to updat the adp.exe and dlls. Then after I did that, ran the get token script from the toolbox, open the phone to the home screen, and accept the connection request from the computer.
I ended up having to just start the process over again on a different computer, but it worked, so I'm happy lol.
Regards
Smith
You can also try disabling USB Debugging and re-enabling it while the USB is connected. Works for me so far
So... now that I think with hindsight, I did something pretty stupid, and I'm going to need some help, since I have no idea what to do.
I have a Nexus 9 tablet, and I never liked it. The OS is just so slow and laggy, and it overheats, and it has many other problems. Quite a couple of times, I installed custom ROM's and so on, and I never had a problem. Let me explain what I did now.
Around a month ago, while looking on the internet, I heard this thing that if I install the original software, but with no encryption, it would work better. It sounded cool at the time, so I downloaded the Nexus Root Toolkit, and did it.
Everything went well. But then I heard about a custom ROM that was apparently working even better, Dirty Unicorns, so using the same toolkit, I installed it. For the first time, my Nexus 9 actually worked the way it is supposed to work, but the custom ROM still had its problems, it crashed from time to time. I was thinking about possibly returning or selling the tablet, so that's why using the Toolkit, I reinstalled the original software. But, if I went all the steps, and also locked the OEM, my device then showed a flag saying that it was a development device, while booting up. So, after messing around with the settings of the Toolkit a little, I decided to reinstall the software, but leave the bootloader unlocked.
But after some time, I reinstalled my Windows, and I also reinstalled the Toolkit. But that's when I started to have problems. My tablet wouldn't connect to my laptop anymore. I used the toolkit and uninstalled drivers, reinstalling others quite a couple of times, and that's where I think that I messed something up. I managed to eventually connect my tablet, and I rooted it, after rooting it, I connected it again. But adb wasn't working for some reason. A little annoyed, I simply copy pasted the zip file of CM13 into my tablet's internal storage, and I rebooted it to the recovery, TWRP. But the recovery failed to flash it, saying something about an Error 7.
Now that I think about it, I was stupid, since after that, I performed a complete factory reset, resetting my TWRP backup too. I tried to connect it again, nothing. It didn't connect at all. I plug it in, my computer doesn't even recognize that something is plugged in. No Nexus 9, no Android Device, no anything. I booted it in fastboot mode, and it worked, my computer recognized it, and after I downloaded a ROM zip file again, I tried to connect the tablet back and flash it manually, but nothing. It didn't recognize anything anymore.
I tried to reinstall the drivers countless times. I deleted what I had, reinstalled it, nothing. I uninstalled and reinstalled the Toolkit. But strangely, now, even if I know that I installed the Google USB drivers, and the ADB drivers, as I even installed Android SDK, if I use USB Deview, it doesn't show me any of them. I can't see any Google or ADB drivers, although I tried installing them multiple times. So now, I'm stuck with a tablet with TWRP and no OS, which I can't connect to my PC, and I can't use ADB or fastboot.
Is it something from my laptop? I can't check to see if it will connect to another PC right now, so I don't know for sure. Is there any way to delete all the traces from my (failed) attempts at reinstalling the drivers, and to install them again properly? Or is it something from the tablet itself? I don't have an OS, so I can't enable USB debugging.
So, shortly, I have no idea what's happening. And I'm quite obviously a noob in all of these. Can anyone help me? Please?
If you boot into the bootloader and from a command prompt type fastboot devices you don't get anything?
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA-Developers mobile app
I still couldn't get ADB to work, but I managed to work out fastboot. It may be something from my USB cable, it works perfectly.
I flashed the original software back, and I'll go to check my cable, although I feel kinda stupid that I didn't think about that in the first place.
Thanks for the help anyway.
If fastboot is working and bootloader is unlocked, you can still install a factory image.
Depending of your device download for wifi Version:
https://dl.google.com/dl/android/aosp/volantis-mob30p-factory-2cb57a1b.tgz
If you habe the LTE variant:
https://dl.google.com/dl/android/aosp/volantisg-mob30p-factory-ae9ce05a.tgz
Extract the files and put them into the same directory link fastboot and execute the flash-all.bat
WARNING: Any data will be erased!!! Also TWRP
Now it should boot up with stock firmware.
If you want your device decrypted install twrp. format the internal storage and flash the pure nexus rom which i can highly recommend and is decrypted by default. Dont forget do flash gapps
my issue is same
what if someone USB- debug is not enabled , is there any possibility to do that , i have a device nexus 9 , rooted it it went into bootloop then i factory reset it , and now my adb is not communicating , if there is any options?
rohanzakie said:
what if someone USB- debug is not enabled , is there any possibility to do that , i have a device nexus 9 , rooted it it went into bootloop then i factory reset it , and now my adb is not communicating , if there is any options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use fastboot, not adb.
what if fastboot isn't working, either?
uberSkeptic said:
what if fastboot isn't working, either?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the tablet in fastboot mode?
madbat99 said:
Is the tablet in fastboot mode?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. I can boot into the bootloader, and from there (or from TWRP) into fastboot, but no computer I've connected it to (and I've tried many) will recognize it. Doesn't show up in Device Manger or lsusb, doesn't show up from either "adb devices" or "fastboot list devices" (the latter just hangs there saying "Waiting for any device"). The USB on the tablet itself is fine, and I even replaced the USB daughter-board just to be safe.
uberSkeptic said:
Yup. I can boot into the bootloader, and from there (or from TWRP) into fastboot, but no computer I've connected it to (and I've tried many) will recognize it. Doesn't show up in Device Manger or lsusb, doesn't show up from either "adb devices" or "fastboot list devices" (the latter just hangs there saying "Waiting for any device"). The USB on the tablet itself is fine, and I even replaced the USB daughter-board just to be safe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, uberSkeptic...
Just a quick thought... Have you tried a different USB cable?
Rgrds,
Ged.
Edit & Additional...
The command is not fastboot list devices... it's fastboot devices
One last point... Ensure your Nexus 9 is definitely booted into fastboot mode and not just HBOOT (the bootloader). Take a look at the two screenshots below - your Nexus 9 should look like the screenshot on the right, the one with my green explanatory text.
Apologies for the poor image quality; there's no way of taking a screenshot in the bootloader, so I had to take photographs instead.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Thanks for the advice and going so far as to photograph the hboot/fastboot screens, but unfortunately I have indeed tried multiple USB cables, including the OEM's and I've definitely successfully gotten the tablet into fastboot but it doesn't show on the computer with either fastboot command (devices or devices list).
uberSkeptic said:
Thanks for the advice and going so far as to photograph the hboot/fastboot screens, but unfortunately I have indeed tried multiple USB cables, including the OEM's and I've definitely successfully gotten the tablet into fastboot but it doesn't show on the computer with either fastboot command (devices or devices list).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm out of ideas then.
One of my first thoughts was possible Windows driver problems, but as you mentioned you'd tried it on several different computers, that didn't seem to be a likely cause of the problem - I mean, you'd expect at least one of 'em to work! Maybe somebody else can help with a solution.
GedBlake said:
I'm out of ideas then.
One of my first thoughts was possible Windows driver problems, but as you mentioned you'd tried it on several different computers, that didn't seem to be a likely cause of the problem - I mean, you'd expect at least one of 'em to work! Maybe somebody else can help with a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly, me too. I even tried using a flash drive with a micro-USB connector on it, which I used to use to do nandroid backups, but now TWRP doesn't even "notice" that the USB drive is there (or any USB drive connected via an OTG cable).
Too bad, too - the tablet is otherwise in great condition and even has a custom-painted backplate (long story).
Thanks for trying to help, though!
uberSkeptic said:
...The USB on the tablet itself is fine, and I even replaced the USB daughter-board just to be safe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mmm...
uberSkeptic said:
...I even tried using a flash drive with a micro-USB connector on it, which I used to use to do nandroid backups, but now TWRP doesn't even "notice" that the USB drive is there (or any USB drive connected via an OTG cable).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mmm... (scratches head, raises eyebrow quizzically)...
If I was Hercule Poirot and this was a murder case, and with all the suspects gathered in one room, prior to revealing a brilliant deduction... I'd be casting very dark glances in the direction of your Nexus 9's USB port right now as the likely culprit here.
Think about it. Different computers. Different USB cables. An OTG cable... And none of them work. What's the one thing they all have in common?
Answer: The USB port on the Nexus 9 itself, and where you've replaced the USB daughter-board.
Maybe, possibly, that replacement don't go so well. Maybe there's some unknown problem with it. I can't comment too much on this, 'cos it outside the scope of my knowledge - I'm a software guy; circuit boards and dismantling devices to fix 'em isn't something I'm comfortable with. I always think I'm going to damage something or rip a wire out somewhere, so I bow to your superior knowledge in this area, as I may be talking complete cobblers here. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Anyway... Sorry I wasn't able to help find a working solution for you. If anything occurs to me that might help, I'll be sure to let you know.
Rgrds,
Ged.
I would be suspect if the replacement as well if it weren't for the fact that I did it only AFTER the other symptoms/problems appeared. Hence the replacement (which is known good because the battery charges no problem). There cables and everything inside the tablet tests just fine... It feels like the firmware for USB is somehow corrupt or something.
Thanks for all the advice, though. ?
So I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but when I run "dmesg" from the terminal app included w/ TWRP, I see that there a TON of errors, mostly referencing problems accessing the recovery image. I could screenshot it, if anyone at all might be able to tell me a little more specifically what the dmesg log is trying to tell me...