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I have some ideas for a heavily customized Android tablet for an industrial use. Most of the customizations involve taking things OUT and locking stuff down, durability a plus as well.
I sent a couple emails to Chinese companies but didn't get any response, and am also a bit worried about them stealing my ideas and running with 'em.
Any pointers/advice?
When your idea is greater then great then can you register your idea with patents.
But you need to know that patents are realy expensive and some company's copy all things what they see.
You can better search for a buddy who has knowledge for manufacture in China or an other cheap country.
know that big companies like Foxxcon make only big orders.
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at right now. Not sure of how to proceed patent-wise and not really wanting to work with Chinese companies either way.
Cheap isn't paramount for this application, if anybody knows of any more local resources for android hardware I could talk to...
Only have time for a real quick reply right now to a very deep topic...
I would say your best bet is to look into various 'open source' models. Look at the the DIYdrone community. You can get Android running on a little ARM processor. Or for a turnkey dev solution:
liquidware.com/shop/show/BB-AND-DEV/Android+Hardware+Development+Kit
Throw it in a Pelican case and you've got yourself a proof-of-concept. Which is what you're gonna need to raise any venture capitol if you pick that route...
As far as patents... this can also get you some credibility with venture capitalists... you can file a patent yourself for pretty cheap but don't expect it to hold against any big boys though...
Good luck, there's a lot to learn, making a bunch of Engineering/Programming/Business friends and having your girl pick the outfit before the big pitch!
Cheers
Android on a chip
Hi koob,
Thanks for the useful reply. Do you have any additional tips on getting Android running on the simplest circuit possible?
Using phones for development is possible but not ideal as we're using some of the newer features of the OS (e.g. ADK), and unlocked phones supporting it are somewhat expensive.
I'm interested in two stages, prototyping (I couldn't find much in the DIYDrones community on this), and manufacturing (maybe companies like Shenzhen Xinkenmingteng Industry Technology on Alibaba could take a functional spec or a PCB design?).
Many thanks for your help.
Bump! I would also be interested in hearing more about this, as we want to develop a custom mobile monitoring device, using Android so as to save us the effort of writing firmware for the wireless communications, display, touchscreen, etc. Like TheCritic, we're interested in locking it down - replacing the OS's main functionality with some skin or app we write ourselves.
The Liquidware Android Hardware Development Kit is interesting, but has many things we don't need and misses a few things we do. We're just not sure where to begin choosing the hardware and working with the kernel, device drivers, etc. Any pointers would be very appreciated.
Any progress here?
I have a pretty similar situation. Having a cool idea that would need only a few features from android. Did you develop your platform? Or found someone who did it for you?
Nothing other than what's seen here, though there were more useful replies than I'd remembered to this thread!
I know the one way to get htc to get back to profit, i said it here first, HTC-if you want to hire me as a futuristic trends consultant, ill take a look at your offer....Ok here it is folks... HTC, you must stop altering bootloaders and concealing source codes, which hamper development. Your bootloader must be made to be rooted and s off easily, without hurting the customer by saying, oh upgrade but your new bootlaoder wont be unlockable, thus alot of people breaking their new phones and bricking them because of this intrusive policy....Time if running out, before we all abandon you,, we are a big community here and can turn your sales around, if you treat us like almost human, say monkeys, yeah a monkey is a big step for you, but we can live with being monkeys if you stop your crap against us... but the goal is to treat us like HUMANS
Sadly, from a business perspective... modders are a small niche of the overall user base that often contribute towards large amounts of financial risk due to warranty claims. We always think we're a great big community who make significant differences in the ecosystem, but we don't. Another perfect example is the turboed manual transmission segment of Subaru. NASIOC and all the other Subaru enthusiast forums will think they make up the majority of the sales, but they really don't. And now, you barely see any turboed manual transmission Subarus outside of the WRX and the STI.
With the One family of phones, you can really tell that HTC is trying hard to create a global competitor to the Galaxy family and the iPhones, which sell to mostly non-modding end users.
i believe we are a big community, and ive been rooting for 3 years since samsung vibrant and the only way to ruin your device is to keep changing roms, kernels, etc.. i only use mean rom and trust his rom at this point, because im a veteran at this and play it safe these days. But if more people were happy, more positive feedback, and the word would get around quick that they care about us... hence, raising sales.. im sure theres a tiny loss from rooting, where someone trys to hide they did the damage and returns it, but that shouldnt stop the gains this would make for them...
Like the OP said, all good thoughts but we, meaning devs, end users who root and tweakers, represent a small, almost insignificant group. From a financial view, we aren't even a fraction of the incoming revenue.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
waterbound said:
Like the OP said, all good thoughts but we, meaning devs, end users who root and tweakers, represent a small, almost insignificant group. From a financial view, we aren't even a fraction of the incoming revenue.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
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Yes, we are small in numbers but we are very large in influence. Everyone I know comes to me before they think of purchasing a device. I'm sure there are many others on xda that are the same way. People know we are the ones that know what the best devices are at all times and which ones to purchase and not to purchase.
HTC need to stop ignoring their best marketing tool and use us to their advantage. If they are ignoring us because they think we are a small group and we don't impact their bottom line they are sorely mistaken.
I have grown rather tired of this same exact discussion, every week or two. Most notably the gripes of locked bootloaders. Htc has provided a way for you to unlock your bootloader, which allows you to flash a custom recovery, custom roms, and custom kernels.
The only limitation that I'm aware of, is updating firmware, which can be worked around by flashing the ruu via a relocked bootloader, then unlock again.
Is s-off more convenient? Yes, but it opens the phone to the ability to flash modified firmware that can brick your phone, that you'll somehow blame someone else for, and expect sprint/HTC to replace it.
With providing the unlocked bootloader (via htcdev), the chances of you actually bricking your device are extremely slim...almost the worst you can do is get caught in a bootloop.
From a business stance, HTC cares about making money. They don't care about your feelings, financial troubles, or how high your benchmarks are. You bought the phone, and that's how they'd like it to end. They don't want to have to replace it (via sprint or asurian) because you can't read and flashed a radio from the evo 4g.
I had to lol when a read that a small group of modders could turn around a company that lost almost a half billion dollars.
You don't say?
In all seriousness we're a very small part of HTC's profit margin the only way we could put a dent in their profit margins is mainstream media, but lets be honest it'd have to be a REALLY slow news day to get any coverage or a REALLY big law suit.
We also are the most enthusiastic android sales people who influence many of the people we know to buy phones because we know more about them than the people who actually sell them. If htc kept devs and the rooted community happy they would definitely see an increase in sales.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my EVO 4g LTE
sianaka said:
We also are the most enthusiastic android sales people who influence many of the people we know to buy phones because we know more about them than the people who actually sell them. If htc kept devs and the rooted community happy they would definitely see an increase in sales.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my EVO 4g LTE
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You've also got to realize the increase in warranty work they'll get with a larger dev community. No it's not going to negate the sales increase but these are all things they take into account when they [HTC] decide what their next move is.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Is it just me, or has there been a decline in the quality of android users since the original G1?
It seems that people are interested in having a custom rom, yet are not interested in doing any of the leg work involved, nor are they interested in understand what rooting, s-off, bootloaders are, etc..
Is this just a side effect of android being more mainstream? Is this what happens when Android starts stealing away Iphone users?
Maedhros said:
Is it just me, or has there been a decline in the quality of android users since the original G1?
It seems that people are interested in having a custom rom, yet are not interested in doing any of the leg work involved, nor are they interested in understand what rooting, s-off, bootloaders are, etc..
Is this just a side effect of android being more mainstream? Is this what happens when Android starts stealing away Iphone users?
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I think it's because it's becoming more mainstream. You saw the same thing with Ubuntu taking more space for PC. Linux used to be relatively niche, people who had a certain amount of knowledge would use it, but most casual users would stay away.
It's a bit of a shame for the repetitive questions and having to lead people by the hand, but that also means programmers (apps, roms, kernels, etc etc) will get more interested in Android as it becomes more popular and thus lucrative.
They're just people. Just like you.
The term "quality android user" is a joke and would only come from a place of arrogance. I'm sure whenever any of you "quality android users" try to get service from someone in an area you're not knowledgeable in you're just as annoyingly dense.
"I used android before it was cool"
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda app-developers app
That's what happens when things go mainstream & become popular. But you shouldn't say that people are of less quality. In the real world, people work jobs which take all of their time away from them, have to travel long distances & many hours just to get to & from work, have families to feed & take care of, etc... Many people just plain & simply don't have time in their lives to sit at a computer & spend hours of time trying to learn certain things, which is why they ask for help with things that they don't know. Please keep these things in mind. If you are more knowledgeable than someone, you really should try to politely help them, as opposed to just calling them stupid & of lower quality. We were all there once, & we all walk different paths in life. Life is rough. Be kind & help others, as you'd want them to do for you.
If people don't have time to learn what they are doing then they shouldn't be flashing roms.
Wayne Tech S-III
In my opinion people (Adverage Consumer) are getting these cheap android based Samsung/HTC/Motorola instead of higher quality phones that are actually close to the same price and being influenced by us (Devolper/Modder) and have basically made them able to do it easy.
Sent from my SCH-R950 using xda premium
zelendel said:
If people don't have time to learn what they are doing then they shouldn't be flashing roms.
Wayne Tech S-III
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Exactly. And when they brick their phone due to incorrectly doing it. They ask a question here. When I or others answer, Some of them reply "We don't have time for all this!, give us a quick-fix!!"
1. It's your problem not ours. We are not forced to help you.
2. If you want a quick fix, remove some money and send it to a repair shop if you can't follow simple instructions.
3. If you don't have the time and knowledge for all this why are you flashing custom kernels and roms?!?
4. We don't mind helping you out, But be humble
zeratos said:
"I used android before it was cool"
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda app-developers app
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Hipsters... Bah
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
It is true that due to the android os being popular or based in everything it has caused the lazy noobs to increase(quick fixers,complainers,etc) and i guess that is the effect of ppl who just want to show off what they can do with their device other than to assist to build the community up.
I currently obtain and use an Inspire 4G for 2yrs now, but the desire is to contribute as much as i can when i purchase a new device(more mobile apps and even rom development / collabs).
In theory, the more people that join in, the more roms should be developed,tested,and released
Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G Unleashed
Honestly, I've been using android since it first started and this is the most dead forum for development I've ever been on. I think this is a great phone, is there something I'm missing as to why it died off so quickly? Or is this simply how tech is evolving now, and since people upgrade so frequently, essentially by the time you buy a phone you cannot even count on a dev community anymore, or at least not for more than a couple months. That means custom roms depend on the companies roms, so for the most part you're just going to get tweaked stock roms, and when you get ditched by the company, you're stuck on that android version forever. With the way companies update (or lack thereof), I'm going to end up being pushed away from android. I used to rely on the community, and frequently donated. If using android means buying a new phone every three months so as to avoid getting left behind, count me out
I'm no expert, but it could also be because of the Exynos. I've read that it's much easier to develop for Snapdragon.
C_Karhu said:
I'm no expert, but it could also be because of the Exynos. I've read that it's much easier to develop for Snapdragon.
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That is definitely a factor for sure, but even for custom kernels, etc. It is very slow. Seems like users ditched out in droves. I've had other exynos devices that didn't die nearly as quickly.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/995680316458262533?s=19
I'm tempted to be happy and optimistic about this. But please forgive me if I'll exercise restraint until ZTE makes a statement that everything is back to normal, the OTA servers are back online, etc, etc.
Somebody on Reddit is already claiming that the ban is going to be lifted. Or that in this case, here in XDA, "ZTE is back". Why can nobody read articles carefully? Spreading misinformation is never a good thing. The tweet basically says that both parties are working on a solution. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, ZTE was never gone, it still exist. So "ZTE is back" doesn't make much sense here.
Nevertheless, I'm stocking up on spare usb pcb and a battery in case this stays the way it is and no other, decent phone comes out in the next 2 years I'd want to dump $650+ on.
Lineage is a much better experience all around so any updates no longer get me excited. And there was always reason to be optimistic ZTE could reach a deal as while their transgressions were serious, they are not the same as being tied to Chinese intelligence and the party like Huawei is. The US government still won't use them but banning them outright only killed competition in China which might be good for the US in the long run.
This is the last Chinese phone I will own. Spending less is nice but I think we have reached a point where the battlelines are drawn and people should voting with their dollar. The Axon 7 for $325 was a great deal but Im willing to spend more for a better software experience next time and to support a 'Western' company, even if it is in Taiwan.
I wouldnt consider China an enemy and I marvel at the things we could all accomplish if we put aside our nationalistic garbage, but China will never be like that even if the West was. Fundamentally different views of the world and the future. It's time for Westerners to understand that. China will never be our friends. They dont think like that. It's not about good and evil or anything like that. They just believe they are better and believe they will, and should win. Once you understand Confucianism, you understand China. We either rise to the challenge or fail miserably. As a consumer I can do my small bit. If every Westerner did the same we could start to level the playing field.
And if Google could stop overpricing their Pixel line that would be great. They have zero need to turn a profit. You could easily argue that they should be taking a loss to get their hardware into people's hands in order to improve the inherent issues with Android.
rjt378 said:
Lineage is a much better experience all around so any updates no longer get me excited. And there was always reason to be optimistic ZTE could reach a deal as while their transgressions were serious, they are not the same as being tied to Chinese intelligence and the party like Huawei is. The US government still won't use them but banning them outright only killed competition in China which might be good for the US in the long run.
This is the last Chinese phone I will own. Spending less is nice but I think we have reached a point where the battlelines are drawn and people should voting with their dollar. The Axon 7 for $325 was a great deal but Im willing to spend more for a better software experience next time and to support a 'Western' company, even if it is in Taiwan.
I wouldnt consider China an enemy and I marvel at the things we could all accomplish if we put aside our nationalistic garbage, but China will never be like that even if the West was. Fundamentally different views of the world and the future. It's time for Westerners to understand that. China will never be our friends. They dont think like that. It's not about good and evil or anything like that. They just believe they are better and believe they will, and should win. Once you understand Confucianism, you understand China. We either rise to the challenge or fail miserably. As a consumer I can do my small bit. If every Westerner did the same we could start to level the playing field.
And if Google could stop overpricing their Pixel line that would be great. They have zero need to turn a profit. You could easily argue that they should be taking a loss to get their hardware into people's hands in order to improve the inherent issues with Android.
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Stop being a political s_hit in XDA this not place to practice politics it is a good community where we dev our beloved devices.Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war.BTW if you hate china so much then you should die Cause I bet the thing we use in our day to day life all are made in or assembled in China.So its impossible to live without them.:silly:
Druboo666 said:
Stop being a political s_hit in XDA this not place to practice politics it is a good community where we dev our beloved devices.Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war.BTW if you hate china so much then you should die Cause I bet the thing we use in our day to day life all are made in or assembled in China.So its impossible to live without them.:silly:
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That's a logical and reasonable response.
I lived and worked in China. I dont hate China at all. I just think people in the West should begin to understand China. China wouldnt give a thimble of water to a man on fire. Not because they hate the man on fire, but because they would save the water for themselves because they might need it someday. That's a totally different mentality from the Western mindset that they take advantage of. The best thing we can do is understand China, and all of our competitors. We give away far too much as a result of not understanding and assuming that Western ideals are the dominant ideals, even when capitalism is embraced.
Druboo666 said:
Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war blah blah blah
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If you want to stop the political bull**** on XDA, then stop parroting CNN and going "BUT MUH TRADE WAR!!11" ZTE violated an agreement. Another agreement was set up and they violated that one too. You can only give someone so many chances before you look like a fool.
Everyone should just be hopeful that ZTE isn't out and we might get an actually stable build of oreo that works with all the features of Android, LIKE ENCRYPTION