[Q] UDF support in ROMs or Kernels? - Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I'm wondering if any ROM or Kernel developers have the UDF filesystem on their radar yet?
With larger sized SD-Card support and of course USB OTG support for USB sticks, hard drives etc, the quest for an optimal file system comes back to haunt us. There has always been a problem with external storage for cross platform users. Finding a file system that meets all the following criteria is very difficult as a good file system must:
- Be supported natively by all Operating Systems you use
IE. Windows, Mac, Linux and now Android
- Support large partition sizes
- Support large file sizes ( larger than 4GB files aren't so uncommon anymore which puts FAT out of the running)
Recently I came across the suggestion to use UDF as it meets all the above criteria. (see http://tanguy.ortolo.eu/blog/article93/usb-udf for an example)
I tested this idea with a USB stick and sure enough it was plug-n-play on Windows and Linux (and I assume Mac) but I was disappointed when I plugged it into my phone and tablet using USB OTG and USB.
I don't think there's any technical reason Android can't support UDF, rather no one has really thought to build the module and tools into their ROM or Kernel package.
I'd like to suggest that UDF be added as a standard module for ROM builders, along with NTFS, exFAT, ext 2/3 etc.as it would really give Android device customizers another really useful capability not available elsewhere. I'm especially thinking of people that carry around a lot of files on one USB stick that they use on multiple platforms. Like sysadmins, Movie buffs, business travelers, etc.

Ahead of Your Time
What a great idea! After several hours of my own research, I came across your post and cast a vote in the "definitely yes" category . . . then I noticed your posting date!
Here's hoping you get a stampede of support in the coming months . . .
From Cowtown . . .

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=152827
Feature request

Related

[Q] Use Android Tablet as USB, touch screen, monitor

I have been searching lately and haven't found anything . Is
there a way to use a 7" Android Tablet (rooted Nook Color
running CM7 ) as a graphics tablet for pc? Such as the ones
made by Wacom where you can see what you are drawing
on the tablet and on the pc screen. I know you could
technically use a remote desktop program but that's awfully
laggy. I was hoping there may be a way to use the usb cable
to plug up the tablet to the computer and simply use it as a
editable surface to draw on .
If this is obvious, I 'm sorry. I have just been thinking about
this a lot as I currently own a Bamboo Fun tablet as well but
I' d like to see more detail on the tablet itself.
I tried iDisplay and it 's too laggy. A usb method would
be optimal and I figured since I'm rooted someone may
have figured something out ...
Also, I have USB hosting active on the tablet if thats
necessary.
I know it has come up before (about 6 months ago from my searches) and was wondering if anything has happened at all. I would prefer that I have the option of extending my screen (for entertainment) or duplicating it (for art work)
Me too
I wish I was bringing you an answers but instead, I'm asking the same question. Every few weeks I scour the web for an alternative to iDisplay, specifically something that is wired for speed. I travel over half the year and I'm in the habit of lugging a small monitor with me so I can work efficiently. I know Toshiba has a portable usb monitor...isn't there a way to make our tablet's function this way as well?
If there is anything out there to try/buy or support? I'm in. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks for putting your name on the list! I have been looking everywhere for something that could work with no luck. It doesn't seem like it should be hard to tap into the screen of a tablet through usb. Especially seeing as we have the drivers and what not.
Tapping into the monitor would be nice but to take it a step further, integration would be optimal. Such as the integration of the two touchscreens in the acer notebook. Your android device could be used as a virtual navigation device, you could use it to hold windows or play media, or you could even use it in art related programs as a drawing tablet.
It seems like there should be a bigger demand for this. I'm surprised there isn't
I've been interested in developing stuff like this for a while now, but unfortunately, I just haven't found the time to devote to such Android development.
For this to work, your PC would be acting as the USB host. The tablet would still just be a USB device connected to your PC like it always is (you would not be using your tablet as a hosting device for this). The PC would need the proper driver software (which, as noted, already exists). But software on the tablet would also have to advertise and implement additional usb profiles/protocols in order to inform the host that it has additional USB monitor/touchscreen functionality. This is the part that to my knowledge, does not yet exist. (if it does, let me know, ya'll may have done more research on this than I have)
In other words, yeah, there are drivers for a PC that know how to talk to a usb monitor/touchscreen. But on the other end there needs to be software that knows how to act as a usb monitor/touchscreen and fulfill the other half of that conversation. When you buy a usb monitor/touchscreen from Wacom or Toshiba, they're providing a device which already knows how to act and talk as a usb monitor/touchscreen. But that software is running on their device, so unless they've made some libraries available somewhere or there are some standard libraries available somewhere for this, it isn't as easy as one might think.
This might make more sense if you consider a simpler device like a usb keyboard. Your PC knows how to receive keystrokes from a usb keyboard because it has the appropriate driver software. However, if you wanted your tablet to act as a usb keyboard, you would need software on the tablet that knows how to send keystrokes over USB using the standard usb protocols/profiles.
Hope that makes sense.
~Troop
WM8505 Generic Chinese Android Tablet
CPU VIA WM8505 400MHZ ARM926EJ-S
Memory DDR2 128MB
HDD 2GB
Screen Size 7 inch TFT High Clear DigitalScreen
Resolution 800*480; 262,114 colors
It's running a modded Android 1.6. I'm just wonderign if anyone knows if it's possible to use this as a USB monitor. Or even remove the screen to mod it to be used as a USB monitor. I don't care if it's touchscreen or not.

[Q] Few question about lapdock(Ubuntu, programming...)

Hi everyone !
I've got few question about the lapdock for the Atrix. Especially the OS that we could put on the Atrix for use with it, can we put any ubuntu or linux versions on it ? Is it difficult tu adapt a linux distro on it ? And have we all functionnality as a netbook ? (Like for exemple download library to program some kind of application (In java/PHP/C....) I'm a computer scientist student so it could be interesting for me to have a computer with a 11.6 inch display, an autonomy of 8 hours and a little weight...
Thanks for your answers
And happy new year !!
there is a hack to do this in ATRIX ROM DEVELOPMENT section. you can try and do a search there.
I'd try posting this is questions section, more people will properly see and be able to help you out
blackmario said:
I've got few question about the lapdock for the Atrix. Especially the OS that we could put on the Atrix for use with it, can we put any ubuntu or linux versions on it ? Is it difficult tu adapt a linux distro on it ? And have we all functionnality as a netbook ? (Like for exemple download library to program some kind of application (In java/PHP/C....) I'm a computer scientist student so it could be interesting for me to have a computer with a 11.6 inch display, an autonomy of 8 hours and a little weight...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So after spending the last Month on my Lapdock, trying every combination I could, I settled on using WebTop2sd. It takes the Webtop and copies it to the External Sdcard and allows you to create whatever partition size you have room for. This only uses the Ubuntu Jaunty (9.04) Distribution that comes with the webtop. Jaunty has been deprecated and no longer has any updates coming from from Canonical. I looked at some of the other ways of changing to newer version of Ubuntu and Debian, but did not find anything that I thought was usable at this point. Or at least as usable as Webtop2sd. So even thought it is an older Distribution, I find it very usable and extemely fast to be running off of a MicroSD card. The latest Webtop (2.3.6) has Firefox 8 which is fast and you can use most all of the normal addons with it. I have the full Open Office 3 package running on mine along with XFCE-4. So right now, you would need to see if what apps you need as a Computer Scientist are available on Jaunty Armel (Have to be made to run on the Arm processor, cannot be X86 or X64) There is a lot of information on the webtop in the Development thread, so just read up on it there. I am a Sales Engineer and I travel quite a bit. I got this for that purpose, it gives me a decent size screen that I have fast web access anywhere, I can work on Docs anywhere, I have movies, music and Books (Firefox ePubReader addon) with me to pass the time. For that it is it works really well. It is not a full on linux laptop though. It has its limitations, but works very well despite of those. Just my opinion.
I think of it more along the lines of a netbook in terms of performance.

[Q] USB OTG

I saw a lot of videos on the internet talking about the SGS III's ability for OTG USB connections and I decided to try them out. While I was able to run a PSX Controller, a wireless keyboard and a mousewith the cable, I was able to get it to detect only a 4 GB pendrive and only in FAT32 format. It outright refused to detect my HDD of 160GB and 500GB {both NTFS} or my 8GB microSD card which I put in through a card reader. Now, most sites I've seen using the OTG feature use the 2nd cable I've posted as an attachment. I know this is an absurd longshot, but is there anyway that my using the cable in the 1st attachment instead of the second a reason for why it isn't working for me? If not, what am I doing wrong?
No, the cable is just fine if it works for some devices. Most generic ones just work fine.
The actual reasons are multiple:
NTFS is not supported by the stock kernel. Flash e.g. the aftermarket Siyahkernel to use the devices
Card readers need drivers, they are not "real" mass storage devices. I'm not sure if and which drivers are included in the kernel.
USB 2.5" HDD's without external power supplies need a HUGE amount of power, often even above the specified 500mAh. I don't think the S3 can provide that much power and you may damage it trying or even if it works (Altough I think it has a limiter, but better safe than sorry)
d4fseeker said:
No, the cable is just fine if it works for some devices. Most generic ones just work fine.
The actual reasons are multiple:
NTFS is not supported by the stock kernel. Flash e.g. the aftermarket Siyahkernel to use the devices
Card readers need drivers, they are not "real" mass storage devices. I'm not sure if and which drivers are included in the kernel.
USB 2.5" HDD's without external power supplies need a HUGE amount of power, often even above the specified 500mAh. I don't think the S3 can provide that much power and you may damage it trying or even if it works (Altough I think it has a limiter, but better safe than sorry)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank God. I thought I screwed up the device somehow. I understand. I merely wanted to see whether or not I have support. I highly doubt I'll do anything beyond actually playing using the PSX Controller, but I wanted to know how far it can go. Just one more question. Flashing an aftermarket kernel means data loss right?
Depends. You usually have (or at least are strongly recommended to) factory-reset the device due to the low-level changes between the ROM's which can and will cause issues.
However that is not really an issue;
Just copy your whole internal sdcard (/mnt/sdcard) to an USB stick and do the same with your Apps through Titanium Backup.
Then restore both again after having flashed the custom ROM and you're up and running without data loss.
You'll need root for Titanium Backup tough, just flash Siyahkernel or CF-Root through Odin to gain the privilege.

32GB micro sd format?

Hi all,
I just received a 32GB class 10 Samsung micro sd card.
When i transferred a movie (4.36GB) it says that the file is to big.. i know this is the downside of FAT32. But will it work if i format it to NTFS?
I am running a custom kernel:SiyahKernel S3 v1.3.8, and will it still be fast in read/write.
Thanks:good:
Yes. But bear in mind that NTFS-3g (the 3g being unrelated to the mobile data network 3G) has been reverse-engineered without official documentation from Microsoft by using blackbox testing and Disassembling. This means that although it's known to be very stable it might break stuff.
The Plus-Side of this is that the ntfsfix Application for Linux is the best available NTFS repair tool since the developers had to fix their broken filesystem often enough
(However the stability is far better than exFat implementation which is known to cause all sorts of problems)
d4fseeker said:
Yes. But bear in mind that NTFS-3g (the 3g being unrelated to the mobile data network 3G) has been reverse-engineered without official documentation from Microsoft by using blackbox testing and Disassembling. This means that although it's known to be very stable it might break stuff.
The Plus-Side of this is that the ntfsfix Application for Linux is the best available NTFS repair tool since the developers had to fix their broken filesystem often enough
(However the stability is far better than exFat implementation which is known to cause all sorts of problems)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i formatted the card using windows. NTFS with the standard cluster size. But my phone cant use it. it gives a notification that a blank micro sd card is inserted and the file system is not supported. so where back to start.
Thanks anyways :good:

[Q] OTG supported file systems on the Z3TC?

Hi,
does anyone know which file systems are supported by the OTG feature? Am able to read/write just fine on a FAT32 USB stick, but an external HDD that is allegedly formatted with NTFS isn't recognized. I thought I read somehwere that NTFS is supported on most newer devices... I'd assume the Z3TC qualifies as "newer"
i at least can confirm that exfat is working. so large files may be stored on it. ext3 is not. haven't tried anything else yet. i never use ntfs for anything. this fs is too bad.
a user said:
i never use ntfs for anything. this fs is too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you get this conclusion about NTFS?
If you just mean that NTFS is not optimised for USB flash disks, then I agree.
_jis_ said:
How did you get this conclusion about NTFS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
20 years of experience and knowledge.
If you just mean that NTFS is not optimised for USB flash disks, then I agree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no. it's at the bottom end of modern filesystems if not the worst. ntfs is broken by so many ways... and its performance sucks too.
microsoft pumped also full with features that actually never were really used but caused various problems and security isses so they had to disable them, while actually they only removed the tools to access them (well, maybe meanwhile they removed some of them). one of the most stupid, broken and security-wise dangerous "features" were the filechannels, which actually ended in the space of unneeded bull****.
but ntfs disaster is nothing uncommon, it's like everything MS produced (where most top products actually were bought from others and "enhanced" by microsoft).
but we are getting oftopic. sorry.
It is very strange; the same hard disk worked fine on my Nexus 7 with StickMount. Not sure if the software that comes with the Z3 is the problem - but of course the Z3TC is not rooted (yet), so StickMount is not currently an option.
Sony Xperia Z3 USB OTG
I can confirm that with the Nexus Media Importer app, the Sony Xperia Z3 (the smartphone) can read & write to NTFS file systems. I have a USB OTG "Y" cable (a female micro USB port for extra power). Without the paid app though, the Z3 can only read exFAT and FAT32 file systems, stating the NTFS as an "unsupported file system". As an added bonus, the smartphone is able to charge itself if you charge it by the magnetic port! I have a Deff magnectic adapter. Another device that can power an external USB OTG device while charging itself is my Google Nexus 5 with a special USB OTG "Y" adapter.
thanks for the info charging via magnetic while having OTG connected!
size of your HD
Hi anyone of here.what's the size of your hard drive and the brand? I have a seagate 500gb and would like to upgrade to 2tbm seagate backup plus and i wonder if this would work without external power suppor. My 500gb seagate works fine without any external support. Also my Z3 phone can load the 500gb hard drive without issues. I just want to know before ordering the hard drive. I would be using this to watch movies while traveling so a hard drive should be able to load with no need for external support,
Size doesn't matter...in general
It solely depends on the power consumption of the HDD which is not (necessarily) dependent on it's size. Most important is the current your drive needs to spin up when the device is turned on. You probably won't find the current requirement on the HDD itself - only the current needed when running. Spin up power may be higher and if it's too high, your USB-SATA will probably not "light up" at all or constantly restart.
Short: Try to find Datasheets for your old and new HDD and compare spin up current if available or continue to hope for someone having tried the same HDD.
sandrap said:
Size doesn't matter...in general
It solely depends on the power consumption of the HDD which is not (necessarily) dependent on it's size. Most important is the current your drive needs to spin up when the device is turned on. You probably won't find the current requirement on the HDD itself - only the current needed when running. Spin up power may be higher and if it's too high, your USB-SATA will probably not "light up" at all or constantly restart.
Short: Try to find Datasheets for your old and new HDD and compare spin up current if available or continue to hope for someone having tried the same HDD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick update ; bought 1.5tb because it was on sale and both z3 tab and z3 powering it with no problems
Sent from my SGP621 using XDA Free mobile app
a user said:
20 years of experience and knowledge.
no. it's at the bottom end of modern filesystems if not the worst. ntfs is broken by so many ways... and its performance sucks too.
microsoft pumped also full with features that actually never were really used but caused various problems and security isses so they had to disable them, while actually they only removed the tools to access them (well, maybe meanwhile they removed some of them). one of the most stupid, broken and security-wise dangerous "features" were the filechannels, which actually ended in the space of unneeded bull****.
but ntfs disaster is nothing uncommon, it's like everything MS produced (where most top products actually were bought from others and "enhanced" by microsoft).
but we are getting oftopic. sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if NTFS is that bad, what do you use and why?
Sent from my SGP621 using XDA Free mobile app

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