Related
Now we have two distinct root methods for the N1. 1) Unlock the bootloader using fastboot and proceed accordingly. 2) Use the new method described with adb in recovery mode.
Going forward, certain tutorials and methods may only be applicable to one method and not the other, or will provide separate methods for each case. So maybe we need some new terminology.
Original root method using fastboot = "boot-rooted"?
New root method using adb in recovery mode = "rec-rooted"?
Feel free to get more imaginative.
Good idea. But are there any differences between the two methods other than the locked bootloader thing?
aboda7es said:
Good idea. But are there any differences between the two methods other than the locked bootloader thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well one thing I notice is that some of the modding threads (e.g. how to restore your Nexus One to stock) contain instructions that involve Fastboot. I'm assuming that if your bootloader is still locked, you won't be using Fastboot to accomplish this step.
I believe you can still use PASSIMGs on a locked bootloader,so some of those guides could still work on a rec-rooted Nexus.
How about fast-root and hacked-root?
N3xt2N0N3 said:
How about fast-root and hacked-root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds Good...it has my vote
Fast-root works...
Hacked-root I'm not sure about - cause really, both methods are pretty hacktastic
How about true-root and lazy-root?
In any case, functionality of the root access is still the same - the only difference is whether your bootloader is unlocked or not. I don't think two different terminologies are required - a tutorial can just have two sections; one for people having unlocked bootloader, and other for locked.
I dont see why it makes a difference but
oem-root for fastboot oem unlock
and
sd-root for the sdcard loop one (hmm sounds like it could be confused with sd root directory)
or
loop-root
N3xt2N0N3 said:
How about fast-root and hacked-root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds Great!
rohandhruva said:
In any case, functionality of the root access is still the same - the only difference is whether your bootloader is unlocked or not. I don't think two different terminologies are required - a tutorial can just have two sections; one for people having unlocked bootloader, and other for locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering that those with unlocked bootloaders can use the same method as those with locked loaders, i think the unroot tut itself should be changed to use the PASSIMG.zip
theres no need to go through all the hassle of doing a nandroid restore imo
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Has this been explained ad nauseam and I'm late to the party?
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not the best to explain it... But, lets give it a go.
A locked bootloader prevents the loading of custom ROMS. If we had that ability, we could bake in root. You can still root with a locked bootloader, but it then becomes an issue of finding an exploit to gain root.
As for a legitimate reason... It's our phone, and we should have the right to do what we will with it. Yes, dev is another legitimate reason.. but ultimately it's about freedom to use own devices as we want.
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated above, I believe that we can technically root our phones even with a locked bootloader. The problem with it being locked is that we cannot use a custom recovery to flash custom roms etc. In order for root to work properly we also need Superuser permission, and being locked or S-ON blocks us from doing so. Basically, a locked bootloader takes away from the full benefits of rooting in the first place.
tstack77 said:
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply above explains this for the most part. But why would they or should they unlock the bootloader? They stated in a press release that all of their phones would have an unlocked bootloader. Ofcourse, this was shortly before the Evo 3D launched so they were producing the phones for quite some time before they made this decision or as many see it as a promise. So really, they should unlock in order to prevent themselves from losing many loyal customers but also to avoid class action lawsuits for not following through with something people would see as false advertisement. (Class action lawsuits are a whole different story, but we won't go into that)
tstack77 said:
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is not the ultimate block of root but it will take a lot longer for us to obtain root. I am confident that our dev's will find a way eventually to unlock the damn thing, especially if HTC takes forever to unlock it. Think about it... that would be a huge slap in the face to HTC if we obtain root before they give us the update to unlock the bootloader. I think that a big factor in this war is in fact carriers pressuring them to keep the phone locked down because of the things that we can do with root. Sprint want's us to pay for their tethering services, so why would they want us to be able to do it for free with root.
Hope this helps you understand things a little bit better. I think I covered my bases and I am not entirely sure that it is all correct, but to my understanding this is how things work.
Thank you. That does explain the issue quite well . It's not that we cannot get root, but that we cannot write our own recovery image.
I still see it as them finally figuring out a way to block the community, but I am truly amazed that we have become such a power that we can sway HTC to "allow" all our fun.
I would not even think of buying the E3d if we couldn't apply custom roms. Everyone here ROCKS
I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
el_ochito said:
I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
el_ochito said:
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no reason that having an unlocked bootloader will interfere with being able to obtain s-off in the future because we can always relock the bootloader when (or if) it comes down to it.
Binary100100 said:
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your words helped me a lot. I was thinking about the diff between s-on/off and lock.unlock bootloader for long. Thanks so much
Sorry if this is posted before or buried in the mountain of threads, but from what i've read so far, does the root method actually give you S-OFF? I don't want to root it if i wont be able to flash roms. Also, when i plugged in my device the driver updated and its 2.0.7.3. Does that mean i dont need to download the drivers?
tampered just means rooted if you want to unlock your bootloader so you can flash custom roms.click on the link below and it has instructions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1690919
Check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1690919
There is no S-Off for this phone as of yet, but I don't think we'll need it. Root is different than S-Off.
S-Off is closer to an Unlocked bootloader, which the post I directed to you does. With this method you'll be able to flash roms using TWRP.
wobbies said:
Sorry if this is posted before or buried in the mountain of threads, but from what i've read so far, does the root method actually give you S-OFF? I don't want to root it if i wont be able to flash roms. Also, when i plugged in my device the driver updated and its 2.0.7.3. Does that mean i dont need to download the drivers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently there is no S-Off method available for this phone (as of right now). But we've come to find out that we don't need S-Off that much on this phone.
Even with S-On, you can flash roms, mods, tweaks, etc. Hell you can even flash Radios now (which use to be reserved for S-Off).
The current method is HTCDev Unlock. It does mark your bootloader as 'tampered'. But when am I going to actually use a manufacturer warranty or somebody like Sprint is actually going to check the Bootloader. But even that is different from root. You can root, which will give you root access. Then if you want you can unlock the bootloader which will allow you to flash a custom recovery which will allow you to flash Roms, etc.
Edit: I've been ninja'd.
Thank you very much guys
So in order to flash custom ROMs I have to unlock the bootloader (and void the warranty)?
sracercelica said:
So in order to flash custom ROMs I have to unlock the bootloader (and void the warranty)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, but you can make it seem as if you never unlocked by ruu'ing. sprint will never know... if it gets that bad, "somebody stole it."
Rydah805 said:
yes, but you can make it seem as if you never unlocked by ruu'ing. sprint will never know... if it gets that bad, "somebody stole it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well sprint only gives 30 days warranty anyways so I am actually worried about HTC's warranty. I dont have the insurance through Sprint (which I heard is going to increase to 10 bucks a month).
I am looking at getting this phone. Seeing how it is without even simple CWM (How does this happen on XDA?!) I'll go ahead and build a recovery (and maybe a couple ROM's .
Here is what I need:
Latest Recovery Image
Latest System Image
Latest Boot Image
Latest graphics.c
Willing testers are needed as well.
When applicable:
Root your device
Install Flashify
Download Recovery image
Flash via Flashify.
Done. Custom recovery w/o bootloader unlock
I'll be happy to test out. Just let me know what I need to get ya and where to get it.
Kwongger said:
I am looking at getting this phone. Seeing how it is without even simple CWM (How does this happen on XDA?!) I'll go ahead and build a recovery (and maybe a couple ROM's .
Here is what I need:
Latest Recovery Image
Latest System Image
Latest Boot Image
Latest graphics.c
Willing testers are needed as well.
When applicable:
Root your device
Install Flashify
Download Recovery image
Flash via Flashify.
Done. Custom recovery w/o bootloader unlock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew it was here somewhere. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=54945442
I don't know much about Flashify, but I didn't think you could flash anything without bootloader unlock/ Loki.
Can you enlighten me?
Does no good w/o unlocked bootloader, hence why there is nothing available thus far for it.
otherwise myself or others would have already done something.
PlayfulGod said:
Does no good w/o unlocked bootloader, hence why there is nothing available thus far for it.
otherwise myself or others would have already done something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flashify does not need an unlocked bootloader. It works great on my HTC One Max, SHIELD Portable, and SHIELD Tablet w/o bootloader unlock. Unlocking the bootloader is a requirement of the past.
Kwongger said:
Flashify does not need an unlocked bootloader. It works great on my HTC One Max, SHIELD Portable, and SHIELD Tablet w/o bootloader unlock. Unlocking the bootloader is a requirement of the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but dont delude yourself.
Without a viable way to backup and restore, one is just asking for trouble flashing things.
And w/o a unlocked bootloader you cannot flash recovery, esp on this device.
Kwongger said:
Flashify does not need an unlocked bootloader. It works great on my HTC One Max, SHIELD Portable, and SHIELD Tablet w/o bootloader unlock. Unlocking the bootloader is a requirement of the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are wrong.
Without even addressing the other models, HTC One Max used emmc based write protection. You CANT write to the recovery patition without using the official unlock, or SunShine/Firewater unlocks.
On top of that, even if you managed to write to the partition, say some how you had some exploit that dropped write protection, you still have to unlock it (or s-off, which is an unlock) because if you didnt hboot would fail the validation of the recovery partition.
jcase said:
You are wrong.
Without even addressing the other models, HTC One Max used emmc based write protection. You CANT write to the recovery patition without using the official unlock, or SunShine/Firewater unlocks.
On top of that, even if you managed to write to the partition, say some how you had some exploit that dropped write protection, you still have to unlock it (or s-off, which is an unlock) because if you didnt hboot would fail the validation of the recovery partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
forgot to add the s-off part! Thanks for calling me on that one. I do so much to these damn things that I forget how I've mutilated their software xD
Kwongger said:
forgot to add the s-off part! Thanks for calling me on that one. I do so much to these damn things that I forget how I've mutilated their software xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LG G3 should fail for a similar reason, the signature checks. LG does not have an "s-off/unlock" to disable them. TMobile obviously isn't checking but AT&T is, I believe Verizon and Sprint do as well.
PlayfulGod said:
No offense, but dont delude yourself.
Without a viable way to backup and restore, one is just asking for trouble flashing things.
And w/o a unlocked bootloader you cannot flash recovery, esp on this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lgg3root.com
Am I hallucinating while this guy flashes TWRP via Flashify? (I wouldn't put it past me xD) Or does T-mo magically have an unlocked bootloader? If the do, I'll be pissed with Sprint/LG haha.
jcase said:
You are wrong.
Without even addressing the other models, HTC One Max used emmc based write protection. You CANT write to the recovery patition without using the official unlock, or SunShine/Firewater unlocks.
On top of that, even if you managed to write to the partition, say some how you had some exploit that dropped write protection, you still have to unlock it (or s-off, which is an unlock) because if you didnt hboot would fail the validation of the recovery partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PlayfulGod said:
No offense, but dont delude yourself.
Without a viable way to backup and restore, one is just asking for trouble flashing things.
And w/o a unlocked bootloader you cannot flash recovery, esp on this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To both of you:
People like you are the reason that I've taken a long break from XDA. The drama and attacks are senseless and absurd. I come here with FREE software, and you criticize and correct me on things even when you're wrong. You punks have no fricking idea about what I know or can do, and you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face. I have a build booting for ATT and Sprint of TWRP... I am just going to keep it private. You fools don't deserve it. XDA is going to hell, and I'm getting off of the crazy train now.
Mods, please close this thread.
Kwongger said:
lgg3root.com
Am I hallucinating while this guy flashes TWRP via Flashify? (I wouldn't put it past me xD) Or does T-mo magically have an unlocked bootloader? If the do, I'll be pissed with Sprint/LG haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the tmo g3 (d851) comes with a unlocked bootloader.
PlayfulGod said:
the tmo g3 (d851) comes with a unlocked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those bastards. Looks like I'm leaving sprint too ;D
Kwongger said:
To both of you:
People like you are the reason that I've taken a long break from XDA. The drama and attacks are senseless and absurd. I come here with FREE software, and you criticize and correct me on things even when you're wrong. You punks have no fricking idea about what I know or can do, and you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face. I have a build booting for ATT and Sprint of TWRP... I am just going to keep it private. You fools don't deserve it. XDA is going to hell, and I'm getting off of the crazy train now.
Mods, please close this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't insult, attack or anything, I provided factual information to you in an area I am knowledgeable. Yet you came on and just called me a p*nk.
I don't need anything from you, I was trying to help you. I too have a custom images booting from emmc (not from fastboot) on AT&T, this is how I know what i needed to make it happen. My track record more than speaks for itself.
Mod here, dont worry I'll take care of it.
DELETE
Didn't get to the end of the thread.
yup
Kwongger said:
lgg3root.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat, a site talking about the tools auto, playful, cube and I wrote.
jcase said:
Mod here, dont worry I'll take care of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that's why. I understand why you were so rude.
Kwongger said:
To both of you:
People like you are the reason that I've taken a long break from XDA. The drama and attacks are senseless and absurd. I come here with FREE software, and you criticize and correct me on things even when you're wrong. You punks have no fricking idea about what I know or can do, and you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face. I have a build booting for ATT and Sprint of TWRP... I am just going to keep it private. You fools don't deserve it. XDA is going to hell, and I'm getting off of the crazy train now.
Mods, please close this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry... did you just call these both "punks" while at the same time talking about drama and attacks? BWahaha - Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
This whole thing you're trying to do puts everyone who chooses to use this process in danger of fetching up their device... And that's great you have a build booting - go you. But FFS don't go all "I AM THE GREATEST!" here when you're the one ignoring actually good advice from at least one professional in the industry who has done more for the community as a whole than your little piece of work. Please, keep your work to yourself, and just use it yourself without putting everyone else's devices at risk. Oh - and it seems your long break wasn't long enough - maybe consider extending it if it gets you this worked up over very helpful information.
EDIT: Closing at the request of the very stressed out user.