In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Has this been explained ad nauseam and I'm late to the party?
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not the best to explain it... But, lets give it a go.
A locked bootloader prevents the loading of custom ROMS. If we had that ability, we could bake in root. You can still root with a locked bootloader, but it then becomes an issue of finding an exploit to gain root.
As for a legitimate reason... It's our phone, and we should have the right to do what we will with it. Yes, dev is another legitimate reason.. but ultimately it's about freedom to use own devices as we want.
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated above, I believe that we can technically root our phones even with a locked bootloader. The problem with it being locked is that we cannot use a custom recovery to flash custom roms etc. In order for root to work properly we also need Superuser permission, and being locked or S-ON blocks us from doing so. Basically, a locked bootloader takes away from the full benefits of rooting in the first place.
tstack77 said:
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply above explains this for the most part. But why would they or should they unlock the bootloader? They stated in a press release that all of their phones would have an unlocked bootloader. Ofcourse, this was shortly before the Evo 3D launched so they were producing the phones for quite some time before they made this decision or as many see it as a promise. So really, they should unlock in order to prevent themselves from losing many loyal customers but also to avoid class action lawsuits for not following through with something people would see as false advertisement. (Class action lawsuits are a whole different story, but we won't go into that)
tstack77 said:
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is not the ultimate block of root but it will take a lot longer for us to obtain root. I am confident that our dev's will find a way eventually to unlock the damn thing, especially if HTC takes forever to unlock it. Think about it... that would be a huge slap in the face to HTC if we obtain root before they give us the update to unlock the bootloader. I think that a big factor in this war is in fact carriers pressuring them to keep the phone locked down because of the things that we can do with root. Sprint want's us to pay for their tethering services, so why would they want us to be able to do it for free with root.
Hope this helps you understand things a little bit better. I think I covered my bases and I am not entirely sure that it is all correct, but to my understanding this is how things work.
Thank you. That does explain the issue quite well . It's not that we cannot get root, but that we cannot write our own recovery image.
I still see it as them finally figuring out a way to block the community, but I am truly amazed that we have become such a power that we can sway HTC to "allow" all our fun.
I would not even think of buying the E3d if we couldn't apply custom roms. Everyone here ROCKS
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I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
el_ochito said:
I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
el_ochito said:
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no reason that having an unlocked bootloader will interfere with being able to obtain s-off in the future because we can always relock the bootloader when (or if) it comes down to it.
Binary100100 said:
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your words helped me a lot. I was thinking about the diff between s-on/off and lock.unlock bootloader for long. Thanks so much
So as some of us should know HTC Legend can now be Hboot unlocked and can gain S-off. Now, a question for some of you phone nerds out there, what benefits does having S-off actually give you, other than running adblocking applications. I've been thinking about unlocking my bootloader to get S-off but heard that it is an irreversible method, so I need to make sure if it is worth it or not.
-cheers
That's a good question, what can one do with on S-off legend that you can't do with the new unlocked bootloader. Except return under warranty.
BTW HTC knows we unlocked our phone, that is why we need to provide a device token.
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA App
If I know correct, S-OFFing is a unlocking procedure that gives access to /radio and simlock.
So, unlocked bootloader gives every access except /radio and simlock. To get these you'd have to S-OFF, which is impossible on 1.02.0000 (?)
He actually wants to know the benefits of unlocking his bootloader through the HTC-way.
Benefits include being able to flash a recovery (No more fakeflash recovery booting needed)
And alter animations/host file/everything else that lives in /system/. Apps like metamorph need this. All in all it's a pretty easy procedure, and there's little reason not to do it, especially if your warranty has expired.
pepijn499 said:
He actually wants to know the benefits of unlocking his bootloader through the HTC-way.
Benefits include being able to flash a recovery (No more fakeflash recovery booting needed)
And alter animations/host file/everything else that lives in /system/. Apps like metamorph need this. All in all it's a pretty easy procedure, and there's little reason not to do it, especially if your warranty has expired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I won't be doing it anytime sooner since my 2 year contract isn't even halfway yet. Cheers for the input.
Sent from my Legend using xda premium
Is it possible to get temp root only in such a way it doesn't mark the bootloader as TAMPERED?
For what it's worth, there is only a handful of reasons I would ever need root access and quite honestly I don't see the need to be rooted 100% of the time.
However, I don't feel the need to have to unlock the entire bootloader from HTC Dev just to install an APK or two.
Thanks for any pointers!
ttmcmurry said:
Is it possible to get temp root only in such a way it doesn't mark the bootloader as TAMPERED?
For what it's worth, there is only a handful of reasons I would ever need root access and quite honestly I don't see the need to be rooted 100% of the time.
However, I don't feel the need to have to unlock the entire bootloader from HTC Dev just to install an APK or two.
Thanks for any pointers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You only need to unlock the bootloader if you want to flash custom roms and such. If you just want root access for apps just use zedomax's root and dont unlock the bootloader. You only get the tampered messages if you unlock the bootloader.
njfoses said:
You only need to unlock the bootloader if you want to flash custom roms and such. If you just want root access for apps just use zedomax's root and dont unlock the bootloader. You only get the tampered messages if you unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually that's wrong. They're two different things. If you root, it'll show tampered, whether unlocked or not. Locking or unlocking will not effect tampered status. Any root will show tampered. It goes away if you use RUU.
To answer the question asked, no. At the current time it is not possible to root without tampered bootloader
Sent from my EVO using XDA
chickut123 said:
Actually that's wrong. They're two different things. If you root, it'll show tampered, whether unlocked or not. Locking or unlocking will not effect tampered status. Any root will show tampered. It goes away if you use RUU.
To answer the question asked, no. At the current time it is not possible to root without tampered bootloader
Sent from my EVO using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i didnt word it very well. I assumed the reason the op was asking is so he could get back completely to stock if need be. If he only roots and then runs the ruu he would be back to stock. Thanks for clearing it up.
Thanks for the info - I didn't understand the mechanism that triggers the bootloader to show tampered.
Ultimately, I was looking into determining whether or not ICS encrypted the mail (not gmail) database, regardless of the device itself being encrypted or not.
if HTC allows downgrading the bootloader so I can install a custom rom after I make the mistake of taking an OTA update from ATT. With the S4 this wasn't possible. but since this is my first android phone, I was wondering if it was Samsung trying to keep the device "secure" or ATT forcing these companies to keep their bootloaders locked.
some_douchebag said:
if HTC allows downgrading the bootloader so I can install a custom rom after I make the mistake of taking an OTA update from ATT. With the S4 this wasn't possible. but since this is my first android phone, I was wondering if it was Samsung trying to keep the device "secure" or ATT forcing these companies to keep their bootloaders locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once you unlock the boot loader no update can relock it. HTC offers a lot more freedom than samsung, but at the price of no warranty. So if you unlock it and shatter your screen, don't be upset like other people when htc will not warranty it. As long as you have a custom recovery, your phone cannot even physically take an ota update so nothing to worry about either way.
The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act is in place for us consumers for this reason. The company has to prove that any modification you did, is the cause of the trouble. So if you unlock your bootloader, root, etc, then crack your screen, as the poster above mentioned, the company can not void your warranty since what you did has nothing to do with cracking your screen.
This was huge for me when I modified my car and I found this here on XDA after doing more searching
http://www.xda-developers.com/xda-tv-2/your-warranty-is-not-void-xda-tv/
Oh and yeah,,if you are outside the US, it wont work lol
some_douchebag said:
if HTC allows downgrading the bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That depends on what you mean by "allow". You cannot downgrade the bootloader by any "official" means. You will fail version check when you try to install, as you can "normally" only flash a equal or great version number hboot.
But if you are s-off, version check is bypassed, and any hboot version can be flashed.
Similar to a previous response, my advice would be to unlock the bootloader (required if you want to flash custom ROMs anyway) and S-off the phone soon after you get it. Neither of those can be changed by any OTA.
Also, accepting OTA is not recommended on a modded phone, anyway. Whatever came in the update will usually get posted in a stock rooted form in the Development forum, and/or incorporated into custom ROMs, often within days of the OTA rolling out. And OTA will not install on a modded phone (stock recovery needs to be present). OTAs also may plug existing s-off or other exploit; preventing you from doing them if you haven't already (but as mentioned, can't make the phone s-on again). Moral of the story, I strongly recommend against OTA on any modded phone.
Some of these terms/concepts are HTC specific, so may be a bit confusing for you. I would suggest reading up on these forums, if you aren't familiar with s-off, HTC's bootloader unlock process, etc.
How would unlock my bootloader with ONLY root? My Verizon Pixel 6 is temporarily rooted via the dirty pipe exploit. There is no way to unlock my bootloader (officially), and was wondering if it's possible to use my temp root to allow oem unlocking? (currently grayed out)
Lol these threads are the cancer of pixel forums
I'm new to XDA, is there a better place to put this?
anthonyguseman said:
I'm new to XDA, is there a better place to put this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's fine here. There are a bunch of threads regarding bl unlock with a Verizon branded device going all the way back to the P3. But I am curious too since temp root was always something that was thought to be the key to unlocking the OEM switch and unlocking. But I don't think it will work from the few posts I've seen. I'm not sure but I think you can get the switch to show active but it doesn't change the function of it or allow it to bl unlock in fastboot. Perhaps I missed the discussion and maybe I should search for it, right? lol I don't have much interest since I will never buy a Verizon device that can't be unlocked but I still am curious.
I see that you cross posted your request to this thread. We should continue it here... and close this thread. No point now.
Verizon Pixel 6 Pro Bootloader Unlock?
Its been a very long time since i have done any of this stuff. I bought the verizon version and cannot get bootloader unlocked. I have searched and see there has been the same problem in the past models. Is there a bypass or workaround? I can...
forum.xda-developers.com
Temp rooot is usually the first step to bootloader unlocking from how I remember it.
However, an exploit or app or something else will still be needed to unlock the bootloader.
A good example would be Sunshine exploit for HTC/Verizon HTC devices. Verizon was always much more difficult because HTC allowed for bootloader unlocking, but Sunshine took it further with a full unlock with "S-OFF" which stands for Security Off (the phone comes S-ON).
So since Verizon made HTC block us from unlocking bootloader/root. Getting temp-root was essential to the unlock/S-OFF.
Google Boss Confirms HTC Built The Pixel 3a
And presumably the Pixel 4 as well. Many thought that it was the HTC team that Google acquired a few years ago, that built the Pixel 3a. Now, Made by
www.androidheadlines.com
deleted
anthonyguseman said:
How would unlock my bootloader with ONLY root? My Verizon Pixel 6 is temporarily rooted via the dirty pipe exploit. There is no way to unlock my bootloader (officially), and was wondering if it's possible to use my temp root to allow oem unlocking? (currently grayed out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried your Luck?
georgesurgeon said:
Have you tried your Luck?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given the OP's post is nearly a year old and they have never replied, it's a pretty good bet he wasn't able to unlock his bootloader. Now, I'm sorry if in your original thread wherein you asked about this for your device you didn't like the answer you were given, but the fact remains that the Pixel 6 / 6 Pro devices on Verizon are very tightly locked down.
Verizon devices are always going to be locked down than my ability to get a partner unless by an exploit.